EVERYTHING we'll change with MICRON + Response to Scotty

[@micronics3d]

We got acquired by Formlabs! formlabs.com/ Claim your credit: forms.gle/Q4Xobxthd76yhBAEA More info: www.micronics3d.com/ Formlabs Blog Post: formlabs.com/blog/formlabs-acquires-micronics/

[@freerideshuttle]

I would suggest chromium plating the tube, usually is a plating that are made for shocks shafts, and so on, mechanically is stronger on the surface and increases sliding. The smoother the better. While for the bushings, I know you're looking for affordability at these mk1 machines, but semering/shaft seals, and bearings should be a better fit for your dust leakage. You could offer upgrades letting users know that the costs of the machines is quite tight and it's required that there is a cost put into development, and I think whomever buyed one or more machines from you will also be pleased to have a reliable 1.1 version and get into less stressful situations, having to clean less while spending 100$ in parts. I think the better this machine is envisioned with industrial parts that are already reliable, the better will work on the long run. However I like your project really a lot and would love to buy one in the future. Have a good day and hope it helped

[@wandering3ngineer]

Good response guys. Appreciate the honesty. Keep at it.

[@IronMan-yg4qw]

but your machine problems aint fixed you!

[@riakata]

I think your product is a great idea but you should let prospective customers know that this does not include all the tools and PPE you need to safely operate the printer. If someone does spill the powder you can't just sweep it up or worse vacuum it with a typical house vac. There is actually a budget solution ish but your documentation does not explain the risks correctly and the variety of solutions customers should get. A toner vacuum with a hepa rated cartridge is suitable as they basically vacuum spills of toxic plastic powder. Also p100 respirators last longer and can fit better with many cartridge varieties so saying n95 is overkill isn't really correct. The premium option for handling spills is obviously a explosion proof hepa vac but that costs more than the printer. But a p100 mask doesn't and the rigid cartridges can be a lot more reusable if done correctly for powder only hazards. If you want to get extra cheap you can also just buy the toner hepa vac sealed filter cartridge unit and connect any home vac to it. These filters have more media thickness than your printer and extractor have and can probably cleanup one major spill or a long time of minor ones before you need to replace the cartridge. SV-FILTER it's like 50ish bucks and is a ULPA rated vacuum filter. Just be aware if you do not use esd conductive hoses grounded you do run some addition risks depending on the powders you suck up.

[@freerideshuttle]

@@IronMan-yg4qw they sayed they are working on tollerances of the motorised rod and bushings for the layer flip that is the meaningful part. While the powder box (I don't actually remember the name of it) is currently under revision as they get tougher walls by increasing it's width and adding metal plates to avoid cracks

[@MakersMuse]

Awesome to meet you guys last weekend! Huge accomplishment making this tech viable at the price point. All the best with scaling up production.

[@JohannesLauesen]

Manufacturing a actual products as a small startup is crazy hard, I have deep respect for your efforts and REALLY hope you manage to solve the issues. Oh, and as my manufacturer keeps telling me, add more tollerance in the design if you want to avoid issues. :-) Best of luck, I hope to buy your product one day.

[@ProtonOne11]

The problem is usually not to add enough tolerance, but to actually specify it properly in technical drawings, and have a manufacturer that can follow a technical drawing. And, you need to have the tools to actually verify every sample part with precise enough and calibrated metrology equipment, to verify that the manufacturer has followed the drawing and does what was asked from him. Just doing an assembly and check that it fits is not enough. It can get complicated quickly, and unfortunately a lot of "startups" just don't have the background education and project experience or the budget to "buy into" all that knowledge, so they have to learn by experience.

[@tjb433]

Truth. I promise you that bolt hole you specify as +/-.001" would be just fine at +/-.005" and will reduce your cost significantly. I've seen prints where someone who does not have a climate controlled inspection area wants .001" in plastic...smh.

[@tec4303]

Guys, communication is hard. I don't think either party has bad intentions here. And I get that someone like Scotty not wanting to put in extra hours to figure something out is disheartening. You've clearly put an incredible amount of work into this. But as far as I know, you sent the printer to Scotty for a review and not for him to be an experienced, but silent beta tester. In the role of a reviewer, Scotty did what he was supposed to do. I think if you told him "hey, wanna beta test our printer? It's not ready yet and we don't expect a video, we're just looking for feedback" this would have turned out very differently.

[@ashers_workshop]

Yes definitely. I am not sure if you have heard of the Peopoly Magneto X, they sent it out to Teaching Tech and I think Proper printing. They are currently beta testing and have both made video. They were not review videos and just explained what they were doing and what they currently thought of the machine.

[@erkishhorde]

I recall Scotty saying essentially this in his video. He only said it once but he said it while he was struggling with weighing honesty over desire to see the printer succeed.

[@DaveEtchells]

Yeah, impossible to say for sure, but setting expectations by saying it was a beta unit would likely have helped a lot. For Scotty though, expecting that one of the first 5 units would be flawless and represent final finish months before the kickstarter units would be shipping is just bad judgement on his part. And to plan to shoot and release a “review” video on it within what, a week of receipt(?) is amateurish.

[@FasutonemuMyoji]

@@DaveEtchellsyeah, hearing Scotty say that these guy told him they wanted their machine back because he didn’t appreciate it sounded really sus and out of character for what we’ve seen of these Micronics guys so far, now it’s more clear that he didn’t appreciate it and convinced himself that it was totally ok. He releases a full review video with an amped up title about a 1 of 5 review unit that he had arbitrarily given ridiculous time constraints on. Like no, we’re not moving the kickstarter time because you left it in a corner, wasted time trying to fix something that you should have waited for a replacement of, then gave up because you hire editors that want two weeks to cut a straight review video to release “firstish” and you don’t edit it yourself or tell them to edit it faster. Scotty made up the time constraints, he should have released 1/2 a video saying he got a bad unit and would release the 2nd 1/2 after the kickstarter started, so hold off pledging until he can show you how it really is.

[@conorstewart2214]

Scotty is a youtuber, as far as we know the only thing he received from micronics was the printer, no money. Scotty has to earn a living, he can’t afford to spend loads of time getting a printer working and not release videos. So what micronics were expecting of him was to spend even more time trying to troubleshoot their printer whilst not making videos and hence not making money. It isn’t Scotty’s job to fix their printer it is his job to review it and release a video on it giving his honest feedback and review. This wasn’t a beta test, this was a review, micronics wanted the publicity for their Kickstarter, sending these printers to KZbinrs to review was pure marketing.

[@MrVolt]

Really appreciate the honest and straightforward reply to constructive criticism. Very few companies would ever reply so quickly and earnestly in a video. My respect for Micronics is even higher now. Looking forward to seeing you guys succeed.

[@RealAndySkibba]

Really nice to see you guys come back with a response.

[@grfrog]

Right up to Response to Scotty portion, that was amateur hour. Super unprofessional.

[@ZettabyteGamer]

@@grfrog No it wasn't, they cleared up accusations against them by being transparent. This video made Scotty sorta look unprofessional imo

[@jamieswain4888]

​@ZettabyteGamer I agree, definitely made a big difference seeing their side, and it definitely all adds up.

[@Loumenn]

@@grfrogScotty attacked them in his video, they’re just defending themselves by showing their side of the story

[@riakata]

Scotty video raised valid points and this video still downplays the safety aspects in well we didn't say to put it in your bedrooms but then why did non of the reviews have actual n95 masks or know about the safety hazards of the cake of powder.

[@vincer8691]

I like how honest and upfront you are. If anyone has done R and D. You know that shit will happen.

[@nielserikstrup]

Takeaway1: Sintermetal processing is affordable. Takeaway2: This is how to learn from betatesters. Good work.

[@lawrencemanning]

Takeaway3: a nice curry, please.

[@timothyhackett7372]

Takeaway4: Beef stir fried rice noodle with black bean sauce please

[@herbys68]

Takeaway three: things like communications and PR personnel might sound like a useless hassle to engineers, but they are a necessary evil. Poor clarity when communicating with early adopters, reviewers and the press can be the difference between a company surviving or failing before they had a chance to show their value. And to be clear, the last thing you need is a spin doctor, the stereotypical marketing fool that thinks you can distort reallity all the way to success. Stay open and candid. But don't assume just saying what you think it's enough. Work with someone that is skilled at analyzing how what you say will be perceived and that can help you phrase things better to get the impact you want. It's not an expensive skill to have, but it's an expensive one to miss.

[@pcdi7531]

Something i've been wondering for a while. Can you use some sort of metal powder and get a metal part?

[@nielserikstrup]

@@pcdi7531 Yes. There are four main routes to do this: 1) MIM (metal injection moulding which uses a polymer+metal powder combo followed by a sintering in inert gas), 2) SLS laser sintering, 3) BASF Ultrafuse FDM and 4) giving the metal-powder some brute force compression followed by sintering, as shown in the video at 4:02. Tooling for the latter method used to be expensive. Apart from method 2, all have a final sintering step in common.

[@TheJttv]

The global industry standard for a shipping test is a ISTA 1A test. Its pretty to find a test lab to conduct it. I would highly recommend you do such a test. (Some of the colleges with certified labs are a bit cheaper then commercial labs) - A packaging Engineer

[@noway8233]

Thats when yuo take the printer away from second floor 😅😅

[@raulvlk]

These changes should be tested again by beta testers, not by the final consumer. The fact that 1 of 5 printers were bad (due to any reasons: transport for example) is a 20% failure rate on the final end. All these promised changes should be shown and tested in real life by people outside the company, not just in words. Good update on the project

[@louroboros]

I’ve learned something over the last decade working in a high stress startup environment: Self-sacrifice is a one-way street. It can feel unfair when someone else’s less-focused lifestyle gets in your way, especially when you see them as a collaborator, but that’s precisely why it’s *your* sacrifice. Choosing to sacrifice your lifestyle for something can be rewarding as much as it is punishing, but as soon as you start to expect others to make sacrifices of their own because of how hard you’re working, it’s no longer a sacrifice and it can become toxic. I’ve been following the story and really want you guys to succeed, but your handling of Scotty’s situation, especially the response in the second half of this video, tells me you may all be under too much stress. I hope your hard work pays off and that you all soon can get some time to rest and reflect. Cheers~

[@truectl]

You've put this very eloquently. I hope the creators read this and take it to heart.

[@kairi4640]

Yeah their response to that situation has been really defensive and kinda on the unprofessional side. If this was a charity company, I'd understand. But it's not. These guys are in it for the money and it just happens to align their passion as well. They're young though, so I get it. This is probably their first experience with how customer feedback is, and I'm sure it hurts them.

[@Gallo_ii]

The way to go guys. This is how a serious business is supposed to reply to criticism. Take up the criticism, see what you can improve, and reply honestly.

[@hundredfireify]

Still felt like they were doubling down against Scotty. The guy isn't paid by them, he's sent a DoA product tagged as "review unit". What were they expecting?

[@gownerjones]

@@hundredfireify So how come every other reviewer knew that it was a hand-built one-of-five beta testing machine? Only Scotty wasn't told that? I find that very unlikely.

[@ichisaur]

@@gownerjonesyou can imply that there were misunderstandings between you and the reviewer without explicitly coming out and saying it. You can deny the allegations without putting people on full blast. In fact, I think the best way to get people on your side is to get Scotty himself to rereview an updated unit, but that’s likely never going to happen now. FWIW, I thought the first part of the response was really really good and while I’m not the target market due to lacking a space to put this in, I would have been tempted had I had one. The last section of the video honestly kinda soured me on the allegations and reminds me why engineers shouldn’t be in charge of PR.

[@UncleJessy]

Video coming in a few weeks ;) and excited to see some changes already being planned!

[@username9774]

please release before the kickstarter ends plz

[@Todestelzer]

Releasing it after the kickstarter funding ends would be pointless indeed.

[@Nickknows00]

Few weeks? Why take so long…?

[@Ryxxi_makes]

​@evil1knight well all the youtubers have a bias because they got a free sample. Its like being a sellout..

[@dylanevans5644]

​@@Ryxxi_makes What exactly do you expect? You can't ask reviewers to purchase their own beta units. Yes getting something for free is going to imbue a bias, but that is for the viewer to understand when watching. A reviewer cannot be considered a "sell out" unless they are giving positive opinions in exchange for the free item and glossing over or covering up issues. That doesn't appear to be the case at all in this scenario.

[@BenjaminLovelady]

I think StrangeParts couldn't wrap his head around an infant company actually using Kickstarter as a Kickstarter rather than a large company using it as a marketing and preorder platform. We really want you to succeed so we'll cut you some slack.

[@yayinternets]

💯. You can tell he's used to working with big companies with product marketing groups to suck up to him and have a full hand holding plan vs working with engineers trying to get something out to market on a micro budget. If anything, the ghosting shows that he has a big ego and wants to be catered to rather than being able to understand context and empathize with how hard of a problem these guys are working on.

[@ilchickentv340]

Fair, although I think his expectations were a little bit raised due to Micronics calling it a "review model" rather than "testing unit," as they are here.

[@supersnail5000]

​​@@yayinternets I actually feel like the response presented here is far more narcissistic than Scotty's. They make a big point out of how they've spent so long working on it so he should have been willing to dedicate more time to it, but the fact is that KZbin is a cruel game, and if you don't get your video out near embargo, it's not going to be successful. Yes they sent him the printer for the review, but they are fully aware that they get PR and feedback out of that deal too, so it is not without compensation. KZbinrs have tight deadlines to make these videos, and if the failings which they admit to in this video caused him huge delays in that process, it is basically wasted effort on his part. They essentially want a KZbinr to dedicate weeks of their time to beta testing their product (which they presented as far closer to production than it truly was), with their only compensation being a faulty printer and the ad revenue they can make from a video on it, and then tell them to delay said video directly meaning it will make less ad revenue. It's pretty easy to see why Scotty was annoyed here, so to see them try to shift the narrative here and paint themselves as the victims really leaves a bad taste.

[@mattedmunds6473]

@@ilchickentv340 agreed completely. And the statement for wanting the printer back wasn’t taken out of context at all. He provided more context to why he was pissed, but totally asked for the printer back. Which isn’t out of context it’s - here’s more clarity as to why I was upset. Those are not the same things.

[@conorstewart2214]

So you know the contents of every message, phone and video call between micronics and Scotty? It is entirely possible that micronics made it out to be a finished product, just look at their score list in this video, they clearly think it is pretty much a finished product. They sent the printer for review, not beta testing, they wanted publicity for their Kickstarter, then sending the printers for review was pure marketing.

[@engineeredaf1920]

I wasn’t going to back the kickstarter because I like to wait till all the kinks are worked out, but I might have to change my mind now… great response video

[@kazolar]

same. I backed the turd that was the Moai, and spent tons of hours and extra money to get it to work, and still ended up with a non-functional machine. I am pretty comfortable backing this with correct expectations

[@gerthddyn]

I wrote on Joel's video that it was very interesting, but that I wasn't going to kickstart this and that I probably wasn't going to jump into the technology for a long time. I don't know if I'll get one eventually, but I'm still not going to kickstart it.

[@paulmiller7078]

Glad this was handled professionally. Scotty was also put off by the way the interaction was handled, but it'salways been difficult to convey emotion through text and I can see how things went sour. Good on you for making things right, but now just focus on the problems going forward.

[@karambadodox]

Given by how Scotty took that discord message out of context, I'll say no, it's just Scotty being an incredibly dishonest diva.

[@XecularOfficial]

@@karambadodox I agree. Scotty's behavior was incredibly unprofessional. If he doesn't make an apology soon for misinforming people about how the kickstarter works, it will be safe to assume that he knows he is in the wrong and doesn't care

[@RADkate]

that guy was always acting weird and the brain injury only made it worse lol

[@kudosjp2]

@@XecularOfficial Even after watching both videos, scotty's was still fair and very vaild. These are beta units, so he is reviewing them as such in the here and now, and not on future promises. He obviously spent a lot of time beta testing, debugging issues, rather than reviewing his unit. Of course he is going to feel negatively about it, and rightly so. Just imagine if this happenned to a paying customer. As for the out of context quote, I still think it's strange they asked for the review unit back, especially since this should be treated as advertising and promotional content. This behavior is not standard. This video was a step in the right direction, but reviews where things did go wrong and the steps taken to resolve it, are far more valuable to consumers than any amount of reviews of the "happy path"

[@diogocarvalho2934]

​@@kudosjp2 Arguably expecting a review unit won't have to be returned is a big conflict of interest as it gives an incentive to reviewers to keep saying good things about the company that is providing them with newer versions of their products

[@pieppy6058]

It’s a great response. it’s nice to see a kickstarter launch with a product, instead of with renders.

[@Gaston12345]

It's also nice to see a kickstarter launch with a project to be kick started, instead of a product to be promoted.

[@FasutonemuMyoji]

Ya it’s kickstarter not preorder-starter

[@pieppy6058]

@@Gaston12345 it does need kickstarter funding. It needs to be manufactured instead of assembled.

[@Anguardia]

I was a customer support engineer for a major 3D printer manufacturer, getting faulty units back is a completely normal thing when you want to get QC to investigate an issue. I'm impressed with this video. Best of luck to you all!

[@spacetomato1020]

Might be the best PR video I’ve ever seen. Being honest about what the issuers were and how to improve them.

[@Dragonited]

Have you tried out having using a static auger? It's commonly used in factories that handle grains where it's hard to prevent the grains from leaking down through the auger and jaming it. They use a static non moving auger and instead rotate the tube the auger is housed inside. It might be hard to change it so far into the design process, but it might be something you should research for future updates revisions. I believe Tom Scott did an episode about it a while back, and that came to mind when you talked about powder leaking down and jaming the auger.

[@gownerjones]

How does this solve the problem? I'm genuinely asking. To my layperson's mind, making the tube spin instead of the auger is functionally identical, considering relative movement. Powder can still jam up the movement of the pipe in that case, instead of the auger, no?

[@JamesHoldsworthPlus]

The auger in question has the tube rotating around the auger, but the bearing is at the top. The tube is open at the bottom and there is a static auger in the centre. It cannot really be jammed by the material it is transporting. It also seems like it shouldn’t work, but it does. The video is titled “Mr Old’s remarkable elevator”

[@cameronsingh]

​@@JamesHoldsworthPlus I work for a company who've developed a vertical screw conveyer for sand and cement and this is incorrect. In our research, you can end up achieving something akin to a 'hydraulic lock" within the tube as the auger fails to move the material and instead compacts it causing it to jam. It seems to happen far more with finer particles like cement and likely the materials used in SLS printing. I don't think it would be viable to use it here.

[@planckstudios]

I gotta have more Henry, like I gotta have more cowbell! So much respect for this vid and the tech you are about to democratize. The number of variables involved is mind numbing. Love seeing the history of issues and solutions

[@jizmtek9820]

yeah more henry!

[@0ldmanplaying644]

keep up the good work.... Mountains aren't climbed without effort. Every step you take, no matter how small, brings you closer to the summit. Don't give up. Keep going. The view from the top is worth the climb.

[@awzup57]

I left a comment previously about powder safety, and I'm glad it got addressed in this video. The procedure clarification that was missing in the user videos is much appreciated. I look forward to seeing how this process plays out when some of the other issues, namely the sift bin, are fixed. Metal powder is a bit of a different animal, but there is a good reason they are typically stored in robust canisters.

[@gownerjones]

I wonder if the whole thing could be made safe for home use by incorporating moisture. If the cake were slightly misted up, it wouldn't dust when exposed. And if there was a bit of water in the sift tank, it would probably lead to much less dust as well. It's how they keep charcoal dust from escaping freight trains with open wagons, by spraying water on top at intervals. This would require one more recycling step for the powder, since it needs to be thoroughly dried, but maybe a cheap dehydrator or a small oven can do that trick, too.

[@mitchwheeler9180]

Are you planning on adding the ability to inert the build chamber? To prevent fire? Also make sure people know that sls powder is a combustible dust. And in certain situations can cause an explosion. Sls is fantastic. But needs proper safety.

[@emotodude]

Sawdust, flour and other household powders are also flammable and can cause explosions. Do you think those products need to make more efforts for their customers to be more to be informed and aware of these issues?

[@oldred890]

@@emotodude Don't be intentionally obtuse. We aren't regularly putting those household powders in situations that can easily cause fires. A much more apt comparison is why we don't put IPA in microsonic cleaners. It's putting something highly flammable in an enclosed space in a way that directly increases the odds of an explosion if not handled extremely carefully.

[@ToppyTree]

Glad to see you acknowledge the problems and have some plans to address them. There are a few parts of this video that make me wish you had more comms/media relations experience on your team. Your frustration may be real and honest but airing specific grievances in public is not likely to help. I remain optimistic for the product and have a lot of respect for what you've already been able to achieve I can't imagine how hard it's been.

[@DR-br5gb]

I LOVE this! This transparency provided during R&D is so cool to see!

[@JoshuaHaasua]

Transparency is good. Appreciate the video. I understand where frustration with the device could have come into play. I have watched everyone's reviews so far, and can say that just because its a prototype doesn't mean people are required to see this start to finish. 1 user in 5 had an extremely difficult time. They are doing you the favor in testing and working through it, but.. that's still a failure rate of 20%. I'm excited to see where this product is on launch, but I don't think either party is at fault. Can't blame someone for quitting on the product if the product was a damaged / defective unit. They still have their own job / videos to create on their end. I'm hopeful that you guys will fix this and finally bring SLS to our homes at an affordable price. Keep at it!

[@thespencerowen]

Wow what a reasonable bunch of guys who are putting their heart and soul into a fantastic product.

[@festeringwomb]

Not sure if this video would have happened without Scotty issues and video, but fair play for engaging openly like this. I believe this format of design issues and revisions is a good way for you, and other kickstart teams, to move forward

[@ShawnChristopher10101]

Can we just say how awesome it is that these guys are so new and responding to feedback like this?

[@ProtonOne11]

That pipe where the auger is inside looks just like plain extruded pipe. Are you actually machining/honing the inner pipe diameter to tight enough diameter tolerance and roundness values? And it looks like there is a grove on the bottom of the auger to take a seal or oring, to preven powder from leaking to the motor. I would hope that the surface roughness on the interior of the pipe is specified for that part of the pipe, to control seal wear and increase lifespan?

[@gustermaximus]

The internet is a brutal place. You guys appear to be putting in the work to make this product a reality, which is pioneering SLS printing at even a hobbyist affordability level. Remaining active on your social pages, posting videos like this and actively progressing the product, will prove beyond a a reasonable doubt that you guys are the real deal. Keep up the good work!

[@ebixxdracion]

Having a list where we can find all the review videos would be nice. Im supporting this project as well. Looking forward to doing some complex organic concept designs.

[@Romeo_the_wise-]

Same SLS machines can print sand molds. Are you considering adding sand to your material selection?

[@gabriell4031]

I like all responses except for the hammer one. I would disagree that disassembling and dead blow to the auger while is a “simple” fix. Should not be the fix. How hard would it be to add a vibration to the auger system to clear it? Don’t count on it not failing found on that system to fail! Powder pressure and rotation. At some point will fail. Don’t want to be rude I hope you all succeed! I’d love to have one but kickstarter scares me especially with that type of money.

[@Aussiemoo]

The problem with an MVP is that you can always find engineering solutions to improve it, but they all come with a cost and technical debt. Vibration in particular can have deleterious effects on so many different areas.

[@gabriell4031]

@@Aussiemoo and hitting it with a dead blow doesn’t have these effects? LOL

[@darrend7352]

Hi folks, Your safety comments are fair enough as a supplier. But I do think just stating you don't recommend it in your living area isn't going far enough. You should really be providing recommendations around requirements for extraction for your system. Simply extracting plumes away from the top of the bucket isn't really enough information. Plenty of people who are less informed will think nothing of where the powder goes after the passing through your fans. I think you need to be clearly recommending the system should be used in a ventilated space with given extraction recommendations to make it clear to the lay person your giving access to such equipment. Also, metal powder is toxic, yes, but that's not the only reason for the respirator. Any powder exposure long term will likely lead to respiratory issues.... All the best

[@conorstewart2214]

Yeah their safety information definitely does not seem adequate. It also doesn’t matter if the powder is toxic or not, any fine powder in the lungs isn’t good for you, even if it is completely inert. The fact that they either didn’t know about this or ignored this makes them look like they don’t know what they are talking about. With their lack of knowledge and disregard for their own safety and the safety of the people in the apartments around them, I would not trust their safety information. SLS printing just isn’t ready for your average hobbyist to use at home, even with their printer it still needs adequate space, adequate ventilation and many other things. This isn’t just like an FDM printer where at most you may need to open a window.

[@amireliad]

I would absolutely recommend going for injection molding with the sift bin, you can get better strength and can consider fillers for the raw materials if needed. Maybe later when you'll have more orders but as things are looking you're about to go big so the ROI on the tooling might not be so bad.

[@marcus_w0]

HDPE / PE Blowmolding might be another manufacturing that's way faster and cheaper. The current one has the wrong materials and the wrong manufacturing for such a part.

[@ProtonOne11]

Getting a tool machined at that size, even for "cheap" tooling made in asia, is probably going to be in the 50-100K$. And you need a designer that actually knows how to design parts for injection molding or blow molding, or you will have a lot of tool design changes that cost anotther few thousands again, or worst case, a totally useless tool. Plus, the time frame to get a tool like that ordered and machined and some first samples made in a machine is probably at least 3-4 months, if not more. Especially if you don't have connections in the industry and need to find and evaluate suppliers first and don't want to spend massive $$$ for quick priority production services.

[@AverageJoe928]

@@ProtonOne11 No way would that cost $50-100k. My most recent single cavity aluminum tooling for a simple part with no side actions was about $5k. Their part is bigger but I'd expect $25k max, closer to $15k if they find the right vendor.

[@ProtonOne11]

@@AverageJoe928 I guess 100K is a bit much. My prices and personal experiences are based on metal molds, and that is probably not required for this low precision application and low volume production. However, you still need to have an expert look at the design, move everything from a "stupid" 3D printer ready model to an actual molded production model, and figure out the details. It seems to me that the Micronics team has zero experience in that, so they need to buy external engineering and expert hours for assistance, and depending on the company they work with, this might be billed seperately, or they add that engineering cost on top of the actual metal tool and tool production process. And of course it kinda depends on who takes ownership of the mold in the end. Sometimes the production companies keep the tools and sell you the finished product, or you can take full ownership of the tool. There are legal and liability things involved too (what happens if an operator destroys your tool by accident, who is responsible for insurance, what happens if the company goes bankrup, do you get your tool out, or does it go into the asset liquidation...) All those things can change the prices up or down, so thats why my range is maybe a bit high. This is a small team here, they don't have the required expertise, so it's going to cost money to buy into that path if they want to do it right and not get burned.

[@mcclmark]

Their planned approach might work OK and be cost-effective, but will take a massive amount of time to print unles they have a ton of FDM printers. While I haven't quoted a part that large before, vacuum forming or blow mold tooling is significantly cheaper than injection molding. Other options to consider: Use an off-the-shelf PVC or ABS box, cut, and weld in a custom features (FDM ABS or injection molded parts) using pipe glue. A knockoff Festo systainer may work well. The solvent will dribble, but it doesn't need to be pretty on the inside of the container. Ultrasonic is another option ($5k+ tool). Full sheet metal construction: Extra thin aluminum sheet metal (weight), riveted tight, caulked edges. Assemble the parts in the US to save on shipping. Hem all edges so there are no sharps. V-cut plastic sheets can be formed into any shape and solvent or ultrasonically welded (like folded metal but with lightweight inexpensive plastic) Of course there are lots of hybrid approaches with top/middle/bottoms made using 1 technology and walls from another (eg, ABS printed 3d features with panel slots, then get sheets of ABS CNC cut for walls, then solvent weld them together) Finding the right mfg technology (and company in China) would be a great way to Scotty to help them out. :)

[@MasterMaceMichu]

Great comeback video, guys! Good to hear the other side of the story and all you did to solve the issues. Maybe for next time: Indicate that these are the final Beta units, send out to be thouroughly reviewed and iron out the last kinks. I'm sure that you will be on top of things in the Kickstarter and beyond, remember: Client support makes or brakes your product. All the best!

[@bArda26]

wow that's a way better response than I imagine! I personally wouldn't have SLS printers anywhere other than a garage with proper air filtration all around. Although the particles may not be toxic, it doesn't really mean that it won't cause harm in long term, especially if you have kids or pets. I think if you can have an optional system for safer operation, it'd be nicer!

[@timonsku]

Don't use reviewers for early beta testing and then be annoyed of people not wanting to spend their time to fix a machine that is broken. Being in this stage of product development is normal and all your issues are fixable but that approach and communication is really unprofessional. User testing is something you typically pay people for, QA is a job, not a privilige or opportunity to create content from.

[@TheBlueAtlas]

I'm sure if the youtubers felt that way they would have refused the machine but even they realized they could make money off there review video. And it's not like the reviewers didn't know the project is still a in beta at best.

[@1SmokedTurkey1]

Would cold metal fusion work on this printer? It needs chamber temps of 80c

[@teamllr3137]

I have a question, how do you plan to get "affordable" SLS powder ? Do you plan the price to diminish due to the demand ?

[@fcampanini]

Very good that you setup this honest answer and anyway that you gave visibility on the effort you are doing. However to be very honest and having seen the video of Scotty, I don’t think he said so strange things and even if maybe he was a bit too direct, things not different then what was said by other reviewers… he said that user applying the campaign should have known that the money was going to go to an in beta state product instead of going in the organization of industrial production of a ready thing as normal for kickstarter. On this very last point are you sure you were 100% transparent?

[@illRun4Clownident]

If you have not done so yet, do some tests-to-destruction. seismic tables and heat cycling and voltage spikes comes to mind. That could prevent a wave of defects after a coulple of months.

[@-Kerstin]

Really nice that you included the full messages. Scottys video was really bending the truth about how much you were trying to sort out the issues. I do think however that before mass producing a product you should be testing it to failure on a shaking table and a thermal/humidity cycler.

[@joellewis6086]

They have been very wise and proactive since their first posting on KZbin. Their transparency from the word gave them an added benefit of the doubt about which of two likely scenarios were at play in Scotty's review, and here they rebut his review with the actual receipts. And their entire handling of their campaign renders the likelihood that the receipts they provided were a misdirect from other communications essentially nil. Transparency breeds trust, and now Scotty has some explaining to do.😉

[@mattedmunds6473]

@@joellewis6086 I would tend to disagree, while the full message provides further clarity as to why Henry was upset, he still asked for the printer back… which is not in and of itself taken out of context.

[@conorstewart2214]

How did Scotty bend the truth?

[@PeregrineChurch]

This is some amazing transparency, very upfront and honest. Great video! Glad you did that user testing and took the feedback so productively!

[@theamzngq]

What you guys are doing is SO hard and amazing! Keep it up, can't wait to be able to pick one up some day (with authorization from the boss) 🙂

[@im.empimp]

"this is definitely not a living room printer we still don't recommend setting it up in your your bedroom or right next to your desk keep it away from your working and living spaces" @9:30 - Has entire set-up less than 2 feet from the bed 🤦‍♂ "practically living in the lab" - 100% checks out!

[@tymoteuszkazubski2755]

Students and OSHA don't mix 😂

[@JoaBro]

that's a CNC machine not a powder printer, i think

[@im.empimp]

@@JoaBro When I first saw the image, it definitely looked like some type of mill closer to the camera, but just behind that I thought it was a prototype of the Micronic. However, stopping and looking at it a bit closer, I'm not sure what's going on. There's definitely a mill with the shavings, but the box that I initially thought was the shell of the Micronic prototype almost looks like it's floating between the mill's spindle and the mill's bed, but then extending well past the mill's footprint (away from the camera). Clearly I'm misinterpreting something about the image or maybe, it's just some AI generated mess.

[@aria290]

@@im.empimp its literally just an enclosure to limit the spread of shavings

[@Bletotum]

That's their own risk to take, but they're telling their customers to treat it with extra caution. There's nothing unreasonable about that.

[@gearshade9441]

Look into Rotational Molding for the bin sifter, like how yeti coolers are made. Are you going to make the bin sifter STL open source? I would like to test it on my 600x600 printer.

[@FriendlyNeighbourlyPerson]

I hadn't heard of you until i watched the review by scotty. His was the first review before i watched some of the others. Thank you for addressing Scott's video. I can imagine it's difficult to separate emotions from this endeavour. Keep being upfront and communicative and you will win over people like me. 👍🏻

[@biggboysouth]

Can the Sift bin and scooper be one in the same to reduce powder mess?

[@tannernugent]

I love that you address error where error is do! Tough fix but easy for yall! Fix that and it’s gold

[@bacon.cheesecake]

Love the transparency, keep up the great work!

[@FantomPhish]

Great feed back guys and looks like you’re on the path to sorting out the issues. If I was in the position to back this project I would. Unfortunately life at this point won’t alloy it..

[@mfeldheim]

Wish you all the best. I am confident this will be a really cool product that opens the door to the exciting world SLS for us hobbyists.

[@frozennunu8097]

You could try to minimize shipping damage on the inside with expanding foam packets used for pc shipping they are effective and low cost

[@felixman9691]

Scotty hadn’t upload to that channel for about A YEAR, and we are supposed to believe that he couldn’t possibly wait to get replacement parts delivered before posting his negativity clickbaited video? I don’t think so, I got weird vibes from him in the past and he felt fake and manipulative/clickbait to me, but after this I don’t think I’ll ever watch one of his videos again. He claimed to be worried about dishonesty according to some of you in the comment section, but if he was being honest about reviewing this BETA products performance then he would have waited for the replacement parts. Just my opinion, but it seems to me he was clearly trying to stand out and get views by being negative and spinning it as honesty. Unprofessional.

[@avaviel]

That's exactly what it felt like. Also, he took down the video.

[@soggybiskit5379]

This is the absolute best example of how a company should react. You guys are awesome! The fact that there are only 2 of you blows my mind. I will be watching and waiting for the full release. You have my money when it comes !! Thank you both!!

[@barhamitzvah]

I super appreciate a response video like this. It's great to know how you are addressing customer feedback!

[@syedshahidulislam7180]

Why not add an occasionally running/programmed vibrating motor to aid with auger jam?

[@SomeoneBloodyRandom]

Overall all a good response HOWEVER, you still come across as rather catty about Scotty and his findings. First, the whole “but only one unit failed” argument. That’s still a 20% failure rate, which is crazy high. Sure you can try an minimise the failure, but it’s still a failure that required prep, getting on a video call, doing the actual”try this” which didn’t solve the issue. Even just offering a swap out on the auger still would require the end user to spend time dismantling the chamber, swapping it, cleaning up powder afterwards. All this is people’s time. You really can’t be down playing value people place on their time. Sure you might be thinking “yeah it’s only a couple of hours”. And sure, but that a couple of hours not doing something else. Which leads on to the point of being upset about scotty saying he felt he already spent too much time on this already. Again it comes across as you feel that Scott should be glad to be giving up his time to make sure the project comes off in the best possible light. And because he didn’t want to you threw your toys out the pram and wanted the unit back. So let’s talk about the review unit. If during the initial talks with Scotty you said or implied that he could keep the review unit (which is common practice, though not universal), you then asking for it back because you felt the world he put in wasn’t enough is a step too far. As you say you’re just a 2 man operation, I’ll let these things slide, just know you do sound rather catty about Scott’s findings. Next time, it’s best to take it on the chin. I understand that is hard to do because you have invested so much of your own personal lives into this project. But at times it’s best to just “take one for the team”. As I said at the start, overall a good response, glad to hear your fixing the issues, thats all that needed to be said, so next time leave the high school drama out of it😂

[@GP3D_Designs]

The transparency is much appreciated!

[@VespasianoNevio]

I appreciate your strong work ethic and transparent approach. If you continue in this manner, you’re bound to succeed in the laser 3D printing market!

[@SimenForthun]

Really impressed by the way you are responding to feedback! This is the type of transparency that all companies should strive for!

[@randyandrews1833]

FDM sadly is just not a good material for the powder separation, i would suggest going with something more durable that could also have attachable vibration/vacuum (with in-line dust seperatior) on it. as silly as it sounds, perhaps outsourcing some designs to a service bureau with some MJF printers (i think the 4200/5200 build bucket would be large enough from the video's i have seen). I actually work with several in Texas (i do onsite MJF repair). i am super interested in this machine, but still getting flak over my last 3d printer purchase :). keep up the good working bringing power bed style printing to the masses! Also one hint on the recoater bearing/seal/powder infiltration... you will NEVER EVER stop this, all you can do is 'slow' it down and make it a 'maintenance' point. There is one idea you could use, but even that your going to have power build up at your rotation points even if you don't let it go to motor assembly. Sealed bearings help, and as stupid as it sounds grease (as long as it does NOT GET TO PRINT powder) helps as a seal to the bearings (or any openings) but needs to be replaced in a maintenance job. Nylon powder gets EVERYWHERE at the micron size it is at, open bearings, seal bearings, gears... it gets into everything and eventually creates wear or resistance :(

[@micronics3d]

Totally makes sense. On the recoater lead screw, because it combines rotational and translational movement, powder gets cleared out pretty easily and it doesn’t bind up. But yeah, for the powder flipper that’s just rotating, it needs a bit more thought.

[@PaweGulanczyk]

What FDM printer and filament are you using?

[@username9774]

They have a qidi tech x-max 3 and a Voron 2.4

[@Corebb]

As a maker and R&D professional, I know it's normal to encounter issues during demos. As a seller, I also understand that more issues can arise after shipping. Keep pushing forward, and remember that every challenge is an opportunity to improve and innovate!

[@sjay67]

Thanks for being open about the issues. I've been watching this product for some time now and ordered on the first day thx

[@eclecticllama22]

Appreciate this video! You know your audience and customer base. We love the transparency and directness.

[@drwoo]

CONICAL auger! Folks, why not make the auger slightly conical rather than fully cylindrical? I could imagine that it prevents the auger from getting stuck in the first place. Respectively: Try making the clearances conical, so that tube inside which the auger spins has on the top more clearance than on the bottom. That way it perhaps won’t get stuck along the full length, thus less force is required to set it free.

[@hardwareful]

Would love to see a 3D printable upgrade to the HEPA filter: Either an electrostatic separator or vortex separator to be able to collect most of the excess powder in a mason jar that can be unscrewed and returned into the main reservoir. This is probably a great community contribution that can also be used around the house and shop.

[@rigsmech]

@micronics3d Awesome work on this new SLS printer. suggest to change the manufacturing process to rotational moulding to improve the sift bin robustness. FDM is good for prototyping to test the design. As the product is transitioning to production, you need to consider that this component to be functional until its product life. Roto moulding is cost effective once you have invested with custom tooling. I’ve been designing similar roto molding and blow molding products and the off tooled samples are durable compared to FDM. Adding sheet metal to the FDM sift bin increased cost from added part and extra steps in the assembly process. Suggestion from a Mechanical Product Design Engineer.

[@Milkex]

You're doing it, man. Get it!

[@stratiienkoroman2959]

Why don't you use Olds Elevator instead of auger?

[@dannyperkins4220]

That bushing you splined for the flipper shaft should be a spiral flute so the powder will naturally flow out. thus if the spiral flute is in the wrong direction it will actually suck up the powder and lock up.

[@marcozacarias1675]

Love seeing people take ownership and admitting to mistakes. Shows character in your company and is something I highly value. I'm looking forward to support you guys!!!

[@srg1555]

Keep it up. I'm super enthused about this printer and cheaper sls in general. Love wut u guys are doing.

[@すどにむ]

Just a thought maybe for gen2, is there a reason that the sift bin can't attach upside down to the top of print bucket? Congratulations for making it to user testing stage btw

[@adsl00007]

I don't leave any comments on KZbin, but I do really like your project. and I am R&D guy. TBH, I am not a big fan to use auger driver as powder delivery mechanism to achieve compactness. Yes, you loose the clearance, but the tube has big tolerance, there will be jam caused. and yes you make the board to be reversible, but this is not permanent solution. I would be interested to see how many cycles (forward and reserve) of auger drive to engage for each print.

[@williamsteele]

Can't you ship the bin on top of the power jug (i.e., Upside Down)? That way it's not carrying any weight.

[@bencolbourn5691]

you can still put the nylon powder inside the sifter for shipping, as long as you add enough packing material so it cant bang around inside the sifter.

[@MilosevicOgnjan]

This is how you address problems - straightforward admiting them and promising fixes. Good work guys, always be honest and direct. I wish you all the best in the Kickstarter and further development of your bussiness. I have a huge FDM printer, a fairly big resin printer and would love to include an SLS printer in my arsenal.

[@MoTheFcker]

Good luck guys! Even tough SLS is nothing for me (at the moment), I appriciate your affords and cheer for you. Its a very hard task you took on.

[@Ak47ram]

This is a tricky situation to be in. You are entirely correct that the core of the machine in which the galvos and electronics are working. Regarding the bushings; my instinct says that with time and humidity, it will bind again. Sealed bearings might be a better option. The response to Scotty might've a bit too personal. It is a tough situation to navigate but I think it could be handled better. A good lesson to retrieve a bad lemon instead of making a third party try to fix it. We all wish you absolute success.

[@boxcarhobo8315]

As someone who has worked on countless industrial machines and dealt with as many manufacturers, i wish they all were this transparent. Good job, and I am really hoping you are as successful as Bambu. Good luck to you and your company

[@aware2action]

Issue with sift bins are due to fdm printing and layer adhesion. One easy way to address is to create a 45 deg. diagonal channel, in which a low cost threaded bolt(?rod) is held captive. The rod should be self threading, on partially formed threads inside channels. This will provide a uniform support. One for each side will take care of the issue. Also, if using ABS, the inside and outside surfaces could be vapor polished, to not only get a non porous smooth surface, but to improve strength on the z-axis. A temperature controlled sealed chamber, with few oz of acetone, with ability to recirculate/recover unused acetone using an external condenser, should make for a cost effective solution. As for the Auger, could incorporate few flexible double silicon, ptfe seals, placed equidistant along the length. Every problem has a solution, if you don't stop looking for it. Also the best brainstorming results are achieved, when a dumb question is well received instead of an outright rejection.❤👍

[@mcclmark]

allthread rods for reinforcement are likely cheaper and easier than panels

[@maxisp1000]

Finely divided anything is generally explosive (metals, talc, coffee creamers and corn, etc,...) Much care is needed in handling.

[@nicknack125]

I have no need for a printer like this but I wish you all the best on the kickstarter!

[@fUjiqq]

Boys, you're incredible. It's the most clean approach to working with the community I have seen in years.

[@oliverherzog7702]

I know it would be some bigger change and the 5w laser might have been the cost effective option to go. Today the sweet spot is with bigger laser so 10-15W should be used. It would help with temperatur cycling of unused material. And surely would make it easier to clean the parts.

[@x_ph1l]

Really nice of you to actually release this video! Don't hesitate to do something like this in the future - it'll cement your relationship with your customers. The more upfront with the problems you are - the more sh*t you can get away with. Also a pro tip: even if you are really annoyed by some of the reviewers - do not ever show it, even if it's very subtle.

[@GaetanDellaPietra]

Excellent response video!

[@funtechu]

After meeting you guys at Open Sauce, reviewing the design progress, and seeing this excellent video with transparency about the design process, I'm happy to back you on Kickstarter. This is an absolute game changer in the SLS market!

[@NamelesshunterGaming]

That cnc next to your bed is exactly like my current situation, except I mill wood with a shapeoko.

[@nsxdavid]

Hang in there guys. Nothing worthwhile is ever, ever, easy.

[@sayrith]

Similar to FDM, is this printer open source? Not that it has to be. Just curious.

[@kiwidave72]

Keep going guys. The hard work will eventually pay off.

[@jfieqj]

The response to Scotty just doesn't sit well with me. You sent what you positioned as a review unit, he reviewed it and had a bad experience with it. He showed lots of uncut footage of trying to resolve the problems with you on the phone, and there were just more problems. A review is supposed to be representative of a final product, not a beta test. Do you think if you had a customer deal with that many issues they would've been happy to "appreciate the hard work you put into it" by putting more of their time into dealing with sending it back and getting replacement parts? No, they'd be pissed off.

[@333donutboy]

The comment that you provided the printer, parts, and material for free is not accurate. You sent this to well known KZbin creators whose income is affected by the content they provide. They're time and effort to not only help you fix your machine is worth money to them. You could have hired experienced beta testers but chose to use KZbin creators for beta testing, troubleshooting, and advertisement for your product. What they provided your company was far from FREE. If anything your company got a great deal. That aside, I do hope your product and your company do great. You are certainly pioneers in this tech for the hobbyists.

[@jared9190]

Keep it up! Excited to see a new player shake up the competition. You guys are clearly capable and qualified, im excited to see people like you pushing the industry forward.