EVO 2013 SSBM Top 8 LSF - Mango (Fox) vs Armada (Peach)

[@shadowmariogaming9702]

2013 - "The shirts in the crowd!" 2014 - "The hats in the crowd!" I'm seeing a theme here lol

[@alexandertiu7232]

then 2015 his 5th place medal was in the crowd

[@shadowmariogaming9702]

That was when the theme rip'd

[@Charmolution]

8:51 Oh, you can tell how badly Armada wanted to kiss him...~ WHY CAN'T THEY JUST STOP PRETENDING AND ADMIT ;_;

[@Lazarscout]

Prog: "That's the problem with Battlefield for space animals" Other guy: "Yeah, and especially for Fox and Falco!" Me: *Facepalm*

[@FortWhenTeaThyme]

He was confirming what Prog said. "Little kids love the park!" "Ah, so it's especially great for toddlers."

[@KG66610]

Falcon is a spacie but I guess he did say "animal"

[@REVOMusicSounds]

FortWhenTeaThyme SHUT THE FUCK UP

[@favourites4]

+FortWhenTeaThyme Except space animals literally just means fox and falco, whereas "kids" can mean more than just toddlers. James Chen (the other commentator that's not Prog) is just super unfamiliar with melee and doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about lmao

[@D.A.-Espada]

FortWhenTeaThyme That's not what happened lol I appreciate your attempt to save face for him though

[@1337muster]

This rivalry is so amazing! It's too bad that it can't continue due to Armada's retirement. 3-3 We need a tie breaker!

[@m8mZ]

Maybe one day :(

[@mrm64]

Classic pop off from Mango, gets me hype all the time. Dude jumpin' all over the stage, lol.

[@DJBigJFTW]

0:35 Instead of the usual Mango fist pound before a set, he gives Armada a solid handshake. Now that's respect.

[@Moxin667]

He was reiterating who the space animals are and also confirming that the edges specifically hurt them. This was at Evo with a lot of people outside of the smash community viewing the match. Most people outside the smash community don't know that that's the case, and why would they?

[@ArmadaUGS]

Thanks for the support! I don't wanna sound cocky but yeah with the dedication I once had I know I could be the best again. I still don't have that though and playing at EVO did not really put any fire back. I was a bit mad after the cermony cause I told myself I could win anyway but clearly was not in good enough shape. But yeah never say never but since Apex 2013 I have never consider playing like I once did. Glad you enjoy/enjoyed me playing at least =D

[@NotaSkeleton]

I'm not sure who the second narrator is. I recognise Prog, but the other guy doesn't seem to know a lot about the Melee meta game and the terminology.

[@1000g2g3g4g800999]

Falco's pillars and similar combos allow for a not terribly difficult way to destroy other fast fallers, and combo floaties (though it's less likely to be a 0-death against them), Fox can waveshine anyone in the cast heavier than Roy which is naturally a more horizontal way of comboing. Fox's dthrow puts characters on the ground rather consistently, while Falco's doesn't do this to Fox. Falco's bthrow sends you a shorter distance, and is less suited for all option covering gimps.

[@MewcePewpz]

out of everything, that was the least face-palmy. That was the equivalent of "is that so?" He emphasized "particular" with the upward, questioning, inflection

[@BaKeYFox]

Wow Mango made more money at this tournament than I make in a month. Also, will there be Melee for Evo 2014?

[@AresRamazzotti]

I have had a question for like a year now… Why the Mario Kart shirt? You always use it on top 8 o.o I rooted for you all the way from México! ;)

[@BuIIetBiII]

Mango really pulled it our of the bag this tournament. Really good consistent play from fox and hardly any mistakes. Well played Mango

[@1000g2g3g4g800999]

Falco has a greater variance in fall speed as his fast fall is faster than Foxes, but his regular fall speed is slower, he jumps much higher in his full hop and is overall a larger character, and slightly heavier.

[@xScreamfinity]

So uh Armada, you ever gonna tell us what you said to mango after the match

[@ArmadaUGS]

Thanks dude! Makes me happy to hear you enjoyed me playing =) I will start playing teams again just for fun at least (secondaries mostly but still)! Yeah us playing would be cool, everyone should be humble and respectful, champion or not doesn't really matter

[@DJBigJFTW]

Waveshine turn around up smash for the win looked so clean...

[@sweetshoez]

I think it was 32% or 36% of the pot. It's on the forums. Like $2,500

[@strawhats100]

armada seemed to have told mango to "win it" at the end.

[@BjayyC]

did mango just throw his favorite shirt... what is he going to tournaments now?

[@kevingarcia3656]

man the meta sure has changed. Just 3 years ago mango was such a rush down player.

[@xycubed]

Armada's played against players with tags how many times? Over 9000?

[@ArmadaUGS]

Thanks a lot! Makes me so happy to hear words like this =D Well if EVO is the "proof" for me not being the better player than we both now how it actually is ;) But yeah thanks for the support, always is fun to hear that people appreciate what I did. Good luck in the future dude =)

[@ArmadaUGS]

You are not the only one! Haha to good =D Like how this turned from smash to Pokemon but I love the begining of Pokemon so I don't mind

[@Deffpoised]

You were truly the best at this game and you were certainly a breath of fresh air in all ways possible. It makes me really sad that Mango won because there is nothing worse than hearing that he is better than you just because of this tournament.

[@AresRamazzotti]

Armada! do you think that Android will be as big as you were? Are you helping him with achieving that goal?

[@Ranger5004]

JChen actually was just explaining the "space animals" smash jargon for those who were watching and didn't know. Melee had 100k viewers. If JChen didn't know what space animals were he wouldn't have included falco in his comment.

[@MrJimmyJammers]

Do u remember when I ripped my blouse? And the crowd was chanting my name

[@1sillybanana]

did you not see the part where I typed mango's fox.

[@etohhhh]

3:12 Prog: "That's the problem with battlefield, those ledges are bad for space animals" JChen: "In particular for Fox and Falco" *facepalm*

[@dwarccanation2781]

I have come back from slush's documentary about mang0

[@GodDangOl]

Omg watching this match up gives me the chills, both players are so good

[@THE12thSanitarium]

that's cool, you guys did an awesome job commentating

[@1000g2g3g4g800999]

Falco's dair is also a drumstick trollmode easy spike, and his shine is stronger, but Fox's dair is a set knockback drill and weak spike. Falco's Fsmash is also stronger than Fox's All in all, Falco's combo game is "easier," and his laser let him be more dominant in neutral game while Fox is better at camping, Fox is less gimpable and faster. Falco's dair is also a good way to destroy approaches, and his Uthrow can lead into longer combos on fastfallers.

[@damanwithdaskillz]

Falco is also slightly heavier so he doesn't die of the top of the stage as much. Fox is overall a harder hitter but falco has a much better combo game. Fox depends on landing hard hits and uses his speed and shine to rush down and cover opponents options. Falco can camp much safer than fox with short hop lasers, fox camping requires more spacing and dash dancing. It's much more complicated than I'm explaining but this is the basic jist of it. Both characters are essentially tied for best

[@ruhtraeel]

you can tell by the way Mango plays that Armada is one of the people he's scared of he wouldn't laser like that at 6:25

[@Kyor12]

I just noticed this was uploaded on my birthday o.o

[@theunabletable]

I wonder what Armada said at 8:49

[@shaheed79]

Chen knew what it meant. He was just translating for the non Smash crowd.

[@jsmithers.]

How about trying to top Isai in Smash 64 :p Now that's a challenge!

[@FortWhenTeaThyme]

He was re-affirming that it's true. Like: "You go at green lights" "Green lights. Got it"

[@ArmadaUGS]

Mango talking a lot is not weird.... it's normal :P If Mango/others still don't understand I went to EVO because I wanted to give my brother this (mostly but also glad to give community a chance to see me again). Me winning/losing does not matter as much as it once did. Of course it feels better for them if they believe I was in shape, which I clearly wasn't. Playing a game competitive should be because you love it. I like smash and I like competing but I need a new challange.

[@ArmadaUGS]

After I had been winning two big tournaments or something with this shirt on (Beast 1 and one more) a friend of mine made me aware of the fact that I did wear it twice when I played super good. He also competed in this game for a bit/while. When he told me that I guess it become a lucky shirt or something so I decided to always wear it on the last day for singles. So at first it was not my intention but it just sorta happend =D

[@1000g2g3g4g800999]

He was still losing sets, and he said he would have retired even if he had lost Apex. He retired because he didn't have the drive to continue to improve. It's a lot of work getting as refined and consistent as Armada was at the time.

[@TreeBeardSomeCallMe]

Fox can take advantage of Falco's terrible recovery, and Fox is also Faster than Falco. Falco has lasers that actually have hitstun, and his shine comboes work really well on Fox since his free-fall animation is fast.

[@Azzucips]

"turn up the ownage" lol best phrasing ever.

[@THE12thSanitarium]

who is the guy commentating with prog

[@THE12thSanitarium]

who is that? sorry not familiar with the name

[@michaelyoung3054]

How come I can't reply to hardly any comments anymore? What has youtube done? BTW, I'm pretty sure most people would consider Mango to be the GOAT right now.

[@FortWhenTeaThyme]

It's because you can choose whether or not you can be replied to.

[@LoverDino]

FortWhenTeaThyme w0t

[@Azzucips]

ROFL This is a year old, and you probably know this, but you can't reply to comments that were made before the whole integration of google plus

[@PsychSaenz]

At the largest fighting game convention in the world. So it kinda counts the most. Mango has never played Fox this strong vs Armada, so somethings changed.

[@alanbangura7949]

You put Captain Jack but not Mango? Wow, that mango hate.

[@ShotofCyanide1]

Can someone help me find people to play in my state WA i know people play but have know way of getting some games in. I'm having some trouble of where to look on smashboards the email conformation never came in anyway plz help.

[@ArmadaUGS]

Since Im from Sweden I did watch it with Swedish voice actors. But I gotta admit that Veronica Taylor did a good job (have seen some episodes on English aswell). Butterfree leaving was such a sad episode =/ I always wanted it to come back for at least a episode or two. Original cast = real cast. The new kids don't know what they missed ;)

[@1000g2g3g4g800999]

He did it before at Pound 4, though those were friendlies, and Jman beat him before Apex 2010.

[@VishapKnight57]

I see a Colossal Titan mask next to the flag in the crowd at the end of their set. Spectator's got good taste.

[@KashiwaDaisuke]

he's just clarifying what a space animal is, i guess

[@1sillybanana]

this is the first tournament set where mango's fox has beaten armada. yes he is the evo champ, that doesn't magically create sets between mango and armada where mango's fox beat him.

[@aquaman5004]

Armada has been dealing with people cheering against him his entire career.

[@Zeodyne]

It's not cheering against Armada, it's cheering for Mango (or for their home country or whatever). It's something natural to happen when it's the away team on home turf.

[@DDisciple]

Actually whenever the "USA" chant came on in the past, Armada would turn up the ownage on whomever he was playing against. So your point is invalid sir.

[@1000g2g3g4g800999]

Fox is faster, and has a longer recovery, though Falco's recovery moves are worse to be hit by and slightly faster. Falco's combos tend to be more vertical, and he's generally considered less technically tight though both are considered demanding. Fox's lasers are more for damage and less for controlling space. Fox has stronger up-kill moves like his uair utilt and usmash, but Falco has a stronger D-tilt and has shine to shine. Fox's shine has set knockback and is a semi-spike, et cetera.

[@Diosukekun]

3:18 he actually gets hit by the downsmash, but smash-dis into the ground so he can get his shield up anyway and only take 14% like a boss. if he fails, he crouch cancels and takes infinite damage, but he was so damn confident and perfectly nailed it! HOW GOOD IS MANGO?

[@templetonbob]

I’d say pretty good

[@simus0505]

I hope Armada comes back strong and Mango keeps practicing so we can see them both at their best again

[@mewsiu]

Ah okay that'd make more sense. Yeah his Peach is pretty unbeatable but Mango's play style can work around almost anything.

[@Ranger5004]

I think we can all agree on two things: 1. Armada wasn't as practiced as he was for Apex. 2. Mango played a different Fox than anyone has ever seen.

[@ArmadaUGS]

I beat Jman 3-0 in that tournament in WF :P Last time I lost a set vs Fox before this one was back in Germany vs Zgetto in April 2009

[@HomestarRunner20X6]

Kudos to Armada for dealing with the jingoistic Americans. It takes patience.

[@urbancohort4142]

right, because that crowd controls US foreign policy

[@danielvutran]

HomestarRunner20X6 lol @ hating americans while trying to sound intelligent it's like me hating blacks and calling them racist

[@trevordollinger6569]

HomestarRunner20X6 Do you know what a non-sequitur is? Because it's not what his comment was.

[@HomestarRunner20X6]

trevor dollinger Except it was. Entirely irrelevant.

[@trevordollinger6569]

HomestarRunner20X6 no it wasn't, you're comment said "kudos to armada for dealing with the jingoistic americans" maybe you don't know what jingoistic means then, it is patriotism through an aggressive foreign policy. The crowd is not in any way dealing with US foreign policy, so he sarcastically replied saying that the crowd determines US foreign policy and somehow that is a non-sequitur. You are misunderstanding the meaning of one of these words obviously. A non-sequitur would be completely irrelevant which it wasn't considering you first mentioning jingoism which deals with aggressive foreign policy. I mean it's okay man we all misunderstand a word or two every once in a while.

[@Ranger5004]

Mango is playing the matchup correctly for the first time. Instead of rushing in, attempting to break shield, then getting naired off stage and killed at 40%.

[@ThanhAnLe287]

can someone tell me the advantages that fox has over falco and what falco has that fox doesn't?

[@ballertheking1038]

I know this is an old comment but falco is more of a glass cannon and fox is more well rounded.

[@1000g2g3g4g800999]

He was retired, lol. Mango also played much better than in his more recent sets vs. Armada. I really wish Armada DI'd uthrow uair better tho.

[@ArmadaUGS]

Both me and Mango do have much respect for the other player for sure. Even if we have some trash talk between each other sometimes just for fun we do have big respect for each other so Im not surprised at all he did what he did =) John: Haha yeah that would be a challenge. Im pretty good at Smash64 already but not close to Isai right now ;)

[@Triplethreat99]

I never thought I see the day a FOX would defeat Armda's Peach. Mango is just too good.

[@smashingmushr00m]

is mangos shirt on ebay? haha

[@AresRamazzotti]

I don't know, but mango is saying that you cannot retire losing to him and dr. pp 2-0, also he thinks he's the best, he thinks that he won because he's the best when in reality he won because you retired… just show to him that you can kick ass one, just one more time!

[@sweetshoez]

fox has a better recovery, grab, dash dance, his lasers have no stun but shoot faster and set kill moves. Falco has a very strong and more dynamic combo game and horizontal control with his lasers that cause hit stun (this actually shuts down some characters and make the match up insanely hard for the opponent like Captain Falcon) his dair (down-air) is also likely the best move in the game. It's pretty stupid in all seriousness. Two different but both insanely good characters

[@Moxin667]

Definitely wish this would've been grand finals. I wanted Mango to win, but Armada of all people deserved a 3 out of 5. Too bad they both ended up in losers.

[@Prodigial]

I'll never see why people always chant against Armada just b/c he's foreign. He's my fav player who mains a character you don't see that often as well as plays a unique style. Plus he has way more class than many American players (Mango and Hbox).

[@ArmadaUGS]

I guess you have no idea that Im from Europe and did not play in any tournament for about 6 months or played Peach at all (except for some matches when Mango was in Sweden). If you one day reach the top and don't play for 6 months you will understand for sure what Im talking about. Until then I think pointless comments with no understanding of the situation is necessary Not saying this to be rude but your comment showed that you don't have any idea how playing smash on top level actually works

[@Lexter1104]

Armada johns be like "But Armada just came out of retirement"

[@meanbeanmachine]

Armada getting scooped up by those up-smashes!

[@yuxie3048]

Prog thank you for being such a great commentator or that guy next to you would have been completely unbearable and this is too nice of a set not to watch. The man knows nothing about the game.

[@jcsaenz6213]

+Anton Jacquard Well, to be fair, he actually is a street fighter commentator. He's one of the best ones, James Chen

[@yuxie3048]

Jc Saenz So why is he commentating Melee? I'll gladly see more people show interest but don't let someone who doesn't know the game onto the mic.

[@xXn00blulzXx]

I'll never know what that guy hopes for even more now...

[@asa80621]

Fox is faster and has a better recovery. Falco has a downward spiking move and a projectile that gives a little bit of hit-stun to the opponent.

[@damanwithdaskillz]

Fox is quicker and has a better ground game, his recovery is also significantly longer. His up-smash is much stronger than falcos and his shine pushes the character away so you can follow up with a wave dash into options. Shine can also spike. Falcos lasers have hitstun and his down air is a powerful spike. Falcos shine knocks characters up allowing for dair combos (pillaring). Falcos recovery is significantly shorter making him easier to kill. Falcos F-smash is stronger than foxes.

[@ghost245353]

I wish James Chen reviewed the terminology before commentating.

[@DiddyKingLP]

ARMADA THE KING OF SMASH :OOOO i may be a fox main but ur my favorite ssbm player:D

[@Slimeroner]

Afterword someone handed it back to him, if you watched the stream you would've seen it

[@nypad5]

Armada didn't stand a chance. Mango turned into a hurricane when he got thrown into losers bracket.

[@WillToWinvlog]

We really did, man!

[@BlizzyWolf]

Original Pokemon is

[@ErickOberholtzer]

He was just asking him, damn.

[@Zeodyne]

Not chanting against Armada, but cheering for Mango. Away team vs. home team on home turf. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, and I guarantee you no one in that crowd would not respect Armada's prowess as a player.

[@BigBoa911]

Lmao, armada's peach is the most dangerous opponent in smash and that is an absolute fact.

[@Scrollskillups]

dude in the beginning on some patriotic bullshit haha

[@sweetshoez]

armada always junks mango lol. he retired (in part) because he wasn't losing sets anymore. I think armada took it well and mango finally got what's eluded him for so long

[@AKAHeroes]

People still use 'LOL'? Brilliant. There is major lack of support though, were there any neutrals there at all? When did I say he's insane just because of Peach? I'm saying he's amazing considering he's using Peach as she can be hard to master. It's not easy when you're against Mango's Fox neither...

[@Rundas1234]

armada was the best for a few years, he retired, and things change. THIS mango id put at dead even with armada 2010-Apex2013

[@ErickOberholtzer]

He got it back later on

[@BaKeYFox]

I think Armada has a new reason to start competing again. al