Evolution of the E4OD/ 4R100 ! There is more to these transmissions than just replacing parts! Pt. 2

[@jayham1545]

This is exactly what i wanted, you do a fantastic job explaining everything. For the past 20 years I’ve always wondered how transmissions work. I’m starting to understand. I’ve just recently picked up an e4od and am toying with rebuilding it to put in my bronco. Videos are MONEY!!

[@marshallsanders5672]

Love it ! It’s all about sharing knowledge my friend. Be sure to check out my “Who’s in Control video” it walks you through exactly what’s going on inside as the transmission shifts through each gear! Thanks for the Comment

[@michaelluft2732]

Never worry about talking to much I want to hear everything you say and value your tears of experience and knowledge

[@marshallsanders5672]

Appreciate that yeah transmissions are very complex and it takes a lot of talking and breaking down the systems within the whole to properly diagnose and fix them. Appreciate the comments my friend.

[@chipschweiss]

I've learned more from about 4 hours watching your videos this week than I've been able to learn in 5 years of reading forums and countless hours of other KZbinr's videos. Keep up the awesome work. Your stories and details are priceless. Watch out for when the KZbin algorithm catches up to you. You're going to be flooded with viewers asking questions and trolls being a PITA.

[@marshallsanders5672]

I appreciate the kind words my friend ! I know those forums can get stupid frustrating for sure with so many opinions hitting one forum. I don’t know everything for sure but determined to get proper information out there to get rid of some of the confusion that floats around the innerwebs ! These transmissions are complicated as is any automatic transmission is but if approached properly just about anyone who really wants to learn this stuff can and be successful at it. The whole point of me doing these videos. “Happy Building”

[@michaelluft2732]

This is so cool I would love to see how you set that up

[@88mmFlaK]

Marshall, I had a transmission shop rebuild my 90 E4OD back in 2017 since the truck went down in the middle of the work season and needed it runnin ASAP due to downtime. I told 'em to install all the upgrades and specifically told em steel planets. Well last November I lost ALL forward and reverse with a full load I was pullin'. Less than 30k miles on it. After I get the thing apart, this thing still had the aluminum OD planet in it which was cracked at the spline boss, but they did put all the other upgrades on it lol. But left the weakest link. Anyway thanks for all the e4OD vids, these are a gold mine for me since Ima DIY Ford truck guy, I reckon this wont be the last e4OD or c6 I rebuild. You help advance my skills a lot, thanks for the gnolidj brother

[@marshallsanders5672]

Unbelievable! I’ve seen it to many times. This is a situation you may be able to change out the planet and keep on truckin’ depending on how everything else looks🤔

[@88mmFlaK]

@@marshallsanders5672 yea the clutches still look cherry and the printing is even legible, all the bushings are good too, so i far replaced the sun shell that had tiny cracks on it, the front planet and inputshaft with a new steel six pinion, and its respective thrust bearing. I went to replace center support gasket and pooched one of the bolts... was thinkin' of gettin replacement bolts from the hardware store, can u think of any reason not to use stainless bolts and washers with red loctite, instead of the ford bolts as long as its not stickin' out too far from the center support? Im probly overthinkin' things but figgerd I'd goto the man on the mountain.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Stainless bolts are usually softer Material so be wary of that. Any small bolt will work as long as it’s hardened. With locktite you shouldn’t need lock washers. Your not overthinking just going the extra mile which is what it takes building transmissions

[@88mmFlaK]

@@marshallsanders5672 thanks Marshall, I defo appreciate how u respond to yer viewers. I replaced 'em wit some 12.9 grade capscrews and flat washers, got plenty of clearance. Becuz of how yer detailed explanations, u caused me to go ahead and replace/check things I woulda probably otherwise overlooked (like the borderline pump gears). We buildin a good unit here wit all the best parts available to us, and u are partly responsible for that.

[@ponycar351w]

Thank you, this and your other E4OD tear down and rebuild videos have been really helpful sources of information. All the extra little details you take the time to include have been exactly what I'm looking for. I'm currently getting ready to rebuild the E4OD in my '97 F-350 diesel dually because 2nd gear is just about toast, and in addition to making sure I know how to do so correctly I was looking for what upgrades would or would not be worthwhile to include. We use the truck to pull a large 5th wheel camper cross-country, so even though the engine is only currently only mildly upgraded the transmission sees fairly heavy use. I am also planning to build the E4OD stronger than what I currently need, because I'm also considering a few more power upgrades to make pulling the camper (or whatever else) a bit easier.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Good stuff! My videos should be everything you need for success. Definitely the “Tugger” kit along with the other stuff I mention. Thanks for the comment

[@ponycar351w]

@@marshallsanders5672 I remember you mentioning the "Tugger" kit in at least one of the videos, and saying that if the F-250 was going to be used for towing you would have included it. My camper is a little under 10K "dry", so it's definitely on the list. Thanks again for all the info!

[@alexfullmer4707]

I for one appreciate the extra time you are taking to explain why you change this. It's helped me to decide what parts I need to focus on for this trans I'm rebuilding for an equipment pulling truck. Understanding how the trans works helps to understand what parts need to be fixed.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Alex, I appreciate your time as well watching the video, be sure to watch my "Who's in Control" video as it truly explains each gear as its going through through the motions. Thanks for the Comment.

[@19815389]

Just like all your videos I’m always learning, I could listen to you explain for hours when it comes to transmission’s, you do what ever you think this trans needs is ok with me if you think four clutch’s is all it needs that is fine with me, I won’t be drag racing the truck, great video Marshall thank you 🙏

[@marshallsanders5672]

Thanks man ! She’ll be right and tight !

[@crackpotfox]

Just want to say thank you for the knowledge dump. Not just in this video but in all of them. I don't like bringing my cars to the shop, and prefer to DIY... it's hard knowing what to do with my 95 7.3 e4od since most guys keep their hot rodding secrets. I'm gearing up to build a 4r100 for my truck since it's started to slip when shifting into OD at lower speed (37-40 mph). I won't be throwing the book at this trans, just a basic shift kit and on/off conversion. Anyway, thank you for archiving your knowledge where anyone can see it.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Yes Sir Your Very Welcome! My whole series on these transmissions should give you all you need to get it right the first time. I explain why I’m willing to share anything and everything I know with anyone who wants to learn this stuff in my E4OD/4R100 lock-up video. Happy building my friend!

[@darrinrivers6293]

Awe man! Took your advice on sanding contact surfaces with emory cloth. Word of difference when assembling.Thank you so much.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Yes Sir! Emery cloth, 600grit,320 Grit sandpaper is your friend when building transmissions.

[@jmc6940]

Just did my 6 pinion upgrade.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Essential! and the steel O/D planet a must

[@scootertrash647]

Excellent job explaining just how it functions. Auto trans has always been a mystery to me, and I'm sure many others. Keep it rolling bud. Explain every detail if that's what it takes

[@marshallsanders5672]

Thank You man ! Be sure to watch my “Who’s in Control “ video, that truly is the video that explains in detail how this transmission functions ! Appreciate the comments !

[@JohnDoesGarage]

I would love to have you go as deep as you can. I am working on learning how to rebuild transmissions and the E4OD in my 1990 F-250 with the 7.3 diesel will be my first attempt. I have books and videos but I want to know what you know after building thousands of transmissions. All of the upgrades and little tricks you can't find in a book is what I'm looking for. I've watched your who moved my cheese several times along with all the other ones on the E4OD. You explain what you're doing better than any of the other videos I've watched. Thank you very much for sharing your vast knowledge with us.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Very cool comment ! I will lay out on video every “Trick”not in a book that I know for you. Be sure to watch TCC/PWM explained. It’s a good one. Next video will be full pump build and everything I left out of the Torque converter video. Stay tuned welcome to the channel my friend ! Good Stuff !

[@JohnDoesGarage]

@@marshallsanders5672 I will watch anything and everything you put up.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Awesome You “GET” it lets do this !You WILL have success watching these videos just pay attention and the feeling having Built your own transmission and driving it down the road is a Whole nother’ video in itself ! We will get there ! You will need to pay Deep attention to a 1990 E4OD because that year needs ALL the upgrades I talk about in my videos but I’m not worried, YOU got this ! Good Stuff !

[@aaronmcnab9911]

Hi Marshall, I would love you to explain in more depth how to look for and identify worn pump pockets and gears in particular, the “OUTER GEROTOR GEAR” I have measured mine and I’m getting 4-4.5 thou total movement form side to side. I took my pump to an engineering shop and he checked all the measurements on his mic in particular the “pocket” he confirmed it was round within approximately 2 thou. My trans a 96 E4OD which is out of a diesel with an F8 pump. What’s your thoughts on the pump? Usable or not? The rest of the trans I’m happy with. Going to replace 4 pinion aluminium forward planet and half spline forward drum with full spline though. Kind Regards Aaron

[@marshallsanders5672]

Aaron having .004 to .0045 side clearance between the body and outer pump gear is excessive to me. The actual spec is maximum of .006 but I would never let a pump body go with more than .002 max. You said it was checked by a machine shop and it was round within .002. The bore itself should be perfectly round so that in itself tells me there is excessive wear without it actually being visual. Usually when there is excessive clearance there you can see the wear on the gear and or pump body but it seems yours has worn “smooth” so it’s not obvious other than miking it and physically seeing the clearance. I would not use that pump if I was building the trans. The pumps and clearances are critical in these units and that doesn’t fly in my book. Did you change pump gears or is this the body and gears that came out of a running transmission?

[@Shalash87]

I find the 2nd gear band fascinating. Such a large transmission, but a such a small itsy bitsy band. Then again, it's job is simply to hold the drum during coasting, nothing else.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Yes Sir you come correct! It is only for engine braking but they could have made it bigger for sure ! It also comes on in a manual 1-2 up shift to help the clutches and sprag hold stronger but again they could have made it bigger. Just our opinion I suppose. Thanks for watching Good Stuff !

[@Shalash87]

@@marshallsanders5672 That said, I do find it quite odd they decided to omit it for the 5R110W (along with the sprag). If you consider that the 5R55N gained a sprag and a clutch. Go figure their line of thought... Since you mentioned a manual shift, can you remind if the shift pattern has a "manual third" position or is that done by a separate button? Does that mean that you can do things like a 2-4 and 4-2 downshift?

[@marshallsanders5672]

@@Shalash87 Manual 3rd "position" is O/D range with the Cancel button on the stalk pushed. Since third in the rear section of the trans is FWD and DIRECT clutches on with no overunning sprag effective there is no coast effect in the rear of the transmission. since the stalk button cancels O/D the computer APPLIES the "COAST CLUTCH" in the O/D section not allowing the O/D sprag to overunn when in an Engine Braking situation which gives you "MANUAL THIRD". You seem to know about many different transmissions have you built transmissions before ? It is very interesting how engineers change things up here and there, but me being on the back end of that I concentrate on Understanding how they work and that in turn gives me a good shot at PROPERLY fixing and or improving upon some of the "SHITTY" design flaws the factory comes up with ! Thanks for the comment Great Question

[@Shalash87]

​@@marshallsanders5672 I live in part of the world where manual transmissions prevail (is this good or bad - you tell me), but I do find the automatics a fascinating design and will be commenting a few of your other videos. In the meantime since we are on the topic of manual ranges. What I like about Ford is that the were always clear - Manual first - first gear only. Manual second - second gear only. It makes perfect sense. So why, would other manufacturers have first gear in manual second? In low traction condition you don't want excessive wheelspin, particularly on a rwd with an empty cargo hold. It get's better (going on the topic of shitty design). GM's 4L80E (a fascinating transmission in many regards, but not this one), Manual first - first gear start (with engine braking), upshift to second (no engine braking). Manual second - first gear start (no engine breaking) upshift to second (with engine braking). How does that even work? How do I do a manual 1-2 or 2-1 shift!?

[@karlforjesus]

This is awesome knowledge buddy

[@marshallsanders5672]

Thank You ! Also be sure to check out the latest videos on E4OD/4R100 ! We’re going deep !

[@marka9049]

Love the info. I have a 96 E4OD bolted to a 7.3 with 196,00 miles. I'm easy on my truck but I'm preparing to rebuild the transmission this winter and in doing so I would like to beef it up for towing in the mountains. Currently the transmission is in working condition but I feel like I might be close to failure. I haven't watched all your videos so you may have already answered this question but i'll ask anyways. What parts should I upgrade when I go back together with it? Its been about 12 years since my last build (C6) and it went well. Thank you in advance.

[@marshallsanders5672]

That’s a good year trans to rebuild not to early not to late. Depending on how much weight your towing 6 pinion front planet, Transgo “Tugger” kit, Sonnax pressure regulator valve, Borg Warner Clutches, Aftermarket Center Support with the snap ring, Triple disc Torque Converter, aluminum Lube “Check Valve” in the pump and a Rock Solid rebuild, all bushings, bearings,Pump Gears,hard parts New OR like new condition and you should be good to go. Be sure to watch the “building the guts”, TCC/PWM Torque converter, Building the Pump, Case Assembly and Transgo “Tugger”kit install Videos. That’s about 5 hrs. Of video time but will give you Everything you need to know to get your Transmission “Right” the First time.

[@marka9049]

@@marshallsanders5672 thank you brother! I will be watching all the videos more than once lol. The C6 I did turned out great. The guys in my shop said I was going in too deep but I know that cleanliness is critical so I removed and cleaned everything which is what i'll do with this one. I do pull a 10,000 lbs backhoe on a heavy duty trailer that's probably 5,000. We bought land in TN and i'll be pulling that up there from SC a few times so that's why I want the thing beefed up. Most of my heavy towing is short and local but those damn mountains in TN are a bitch. It's my work truck and not a daily driver and I do take baby it as much as possible. I appreciate the quick response brother. Cheers!

[@UnderSprayedWhiteSkies]

Marshall, (or any of your viewers familiar w/the 4R100) could you please suggest a (new or reconditioned) twin disk torque converter to replace the stock torque converter during my transmission rebuild (I'm rebuilding my 2003 F150 7700, 5.4L engine, 4WD w/174K miles) I use the truck as daily driver, to haul my annual firewood supply, tow my Jeep CJ occasionally (weight of Jeep and trailer is about 5,300 lbs) and occasionally transporting my John Deere tractor (weight of tractor and trailer is about 8,600 lbs). Thank you from east central Arizona.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Yes sir ! I would call Precision Torque Converters in New Hampton Indiana. They will hook you up ! Also watch my Torque converter video it explains converting your PWM/4R100 to an ON-OFF E4OD lock-up style. It’s all in the video, I highly recommend it for towing.

[@dereksasquatchgarletts7924]

I thought the diesels got the heavier duty steel planetary.

[@marshallsanders5672]

All the later ones did but the earlier ones were hit and miss

[@dereksasquatchgarletts7924]

@marshallsanders5672 I'm tearing one down from a 97 ps, so far all four pinion, but aluminum carriers. Haven't been able to get out the output shaft yet. Waiting on a new set of pliers.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Oh wow Aluminum O/D planet that’s nuts it didn’t break. Just remember steel O/D planet and steel front planet a must.but unless extreme duty the 4 pinion aluminum is fine in the rear.

[@rodneypainter5566]

Hey marshall. Good stuff. What us your opinion on the Transmission Bench classes on line for doing a E4od upgrade build? Thinkin about doing it

[@marshallsanders5672]

The Transmission Bench Series is good just to boring to me. I am not the best You-Tuber by any means haven’t been doing this long but if there is one thing ANY video must have is to keep the attention of the viewer. I try to mix the stories in to give any viewer watching REAL life experiences if that makes sense. Thanks for the comment good stuff !

[@rodneypainter5566]

@@marshallsanders5672 the heck youre not. Your videos that ive watched so far are friggin awesome. Auto trannys have always been like wizard shit to me, but this series is really informative

[@marshallsanders5672]

Love the comments ! It was wizard shit to me for the first 5 years of building but if approached properly and broken down into parts they are by almost anyone achievable. Patients is key !

[@elycraig2802]

Can you use more diesel cages clutches and steel planets for the 300 6L so it will last until I'm old and grey

[@marshallsanders5672]

🤔. Hmm, not sure ! What is a 3006L but I’m sure it’s possible! And I suppose how old and grey you are now is the deciding factor !

[@Lawnfella]

Changing fluid in my e4od 97 250 diesel what trans fluid do you recommend? Thanks

[@marshallsanders5672]

MerconV is now the recommended fluid to retrofit all the ford transmissions that used to call for strait Mercon. It is a much higher quality with better heat and friction characteristics. So to answer your question I would use MerconV.

[@connersawyer6743]

hey marshall which kit will you be using to upgrade the valve body? any links may help

[@connersawyer6743]

Could you use the shorter input shaft if it comes with the new planetary overdrive gear, Instead of the longer stock one?

[@marshallsanders5672]

The shorter input shaft “MUST” be used with the updated O/D planetary. If ou put the longer one in it will stick out the front to far

[@connersawyer6743]

@@marshallsanders5672 got it so use the shorter input shaft also is the updated forward planet,the updated overdrive spindle are they worth the 250$ upgrade?

[@marshallsanders5672]

@@connersawyer6743 Definitely the forward Planet should be done. The input shaft is only worth it if you are making over 600 ft.lb. torque

[@connersawyer6743]

@@marshallsanders5672 I got another question when upgrading the forward planet do you need to buy the forward hub and bearing. Or is the stock hub and thrust washer good to go?

[@marshallsanders5672]

@@connersawyer6743 The upgraded Planetary is designed for a bearing. The old hub and washer must be changed out to a bearing style. It usually comes in a kit

[@lorenzomunoz325]

Sir If I want to install a steel 6 planet to replace the aluminum 4 planet, is it a one for one direct swap. Or do you also have to replace other items to make the 6 fit?

[@marshallsanders5672]

Depending on your original front planet ! Whether it had a thrust washer or bearing on it ! The 6 pinion only takes a bearing. If your original had a thrust washer then you just have to get the bearing and front hub! Otherwise it’s a direct fit. If it originally had a bearing then the planet is ALL that is needed.

[@lorenzomunoz325]

Awesome thx for the reply

[@russlumley4974]

What do I do to at more clutch in my 1997 e4od

[@marshallsanders5672]

At 30 minutes in this video I explain how to put an extra clutch in the forward and direct clutches! Beyond that you have to go to high performance clutch packs like Red Alto.

[@michaelluft2732]

You have obviously been through a lot of trying in yhe course of your career is there any study manuals you have found to be particularly good

[@marshallsanders5672]

Yes ATRA manuals are very good and shift kit instructions when read thoroughly are very good to learn from. They not only talk about the units themselves but shift kits by design are to correct all the trouble areas that every unit has. ( you know form the video every transmission has its own Personality) if you will! and lots of school of hard Knox just seeing problems and studying parts and systems themselves like Hydraulic diagrams are “Priceless” for information.

[@michaelluft2732]

@marshallsanders5672 this is all so exciting to me I am 60 now and find it helps a lot to expand my mind and to do things like this not only to save money but it really helps just for self satisfaction being able to keep my mind active and increase skill and knowledge doing something I love

[@marshallsanders5672]

Yes Sir! As the old saying goes "Your never to old to learn new tricks" Especially in this information age as its called!@@michaelluft2732

[@adamsorell4851]

The splines on the forward drum got halfed on 99 up suoerduty .diesel too only has half spline. The e4od all have full spline even the 6 cylinder.

[@marshallsanders5672]

Interesting! 🤔 I’ve seen many earlier than 99 fwd drums being half splined but it is what it is ! I suppose the main thing to note here is if a person comes across a 1/2 splined fwd drum be weary of using it especially in a heavy duty situation!