Ex-Vice City coder looks at reVC decompiled source code #1

Just a casual look at some reverse engineered Vice City code I found from the reVC project. Amazing work.
New games coming soon TENEMENT and GENOCIDE DOLPHINS. Both have dev vids on my channel.
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[@TYNEPUNK]

thanks for watching guys! please follow the development of my new switch game here facebook.com/jellystargame (also coming to pc, xbox, ps).. and please subscribe for more VC content.

[@ColeEdits]

Absolutely crazy coming across this video haha! Thanks for being a part of probably the greatest and most influential game of all time. Absolute legends every single one of you devs who worked on this! Fuckin' hats off to ya mate.

[@TYNEPUNK]

thank you my friend, im happy to have been there, was a magical time, one which I would not take back.

[@ColeEdits]

@@TYNEPUNK 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

[@TYNEPUNK]

some of the guys were as cool as u might imagine, very few though. Some spent every working day and night at the office, without even being asked. Lots of talent. I think leslie benzies was hugely influential in bringing this together but the work of course was done by people who refused to sleep. Im not sure if I mentioned the guy who literally lived in the studio for MONTHS on end, debugging and coding, there wasnt really many people as dedicated as him (thankfully they had showers in the building). though I assume every single dev dreamed about it every night and went in with a passion to solve issues. Truth be known I was glad to get home and carry on working on my own game which was pathetic in comparison, I was writing a game called Super Wah Wah Ball but I got more satisfaction coming home and making progress on that than on some huge game put together by far too many people for my liking (an had been warned I could not, I (was forced to) shut down "alpha software" to work there, my original games company). Additionally, because I was still an Amiga dev PCs gave me headaches. It was fun to get home to my Amiga and work in a different environment and enjoy my OS, I was staunchly anti windows back in them days. But come 1am I was angry and depressed I had to stop to go in and work on "someone elses dreams".

[@Mrmonked]

​@@TYNEPUNK😊

[@SerBallister]

@@TYNEPUNKWas you based at Rockstar in Scotland or Leeds or another one? Or another studio? I used to work with a few of the Yorkshire people.

[@ghos7bear]

1:13:44 Replays were added with GTA 3 PC version which was started after Vice City development has begun, so it was probably developed right when you worked there too.

[@TYNEPUNK]

yeh i think by the time i left it was not a thing. theres another video out ther wheres some bloke exploits them to my amazement kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooC9apSMjtidjpI (im in this video for all the good it does LOL).

[@EnderGrad]

Wow, that is some amazing insights, thank you

[@burhanerdem]

Who did that helicopter mission?

[@dinglemaniac1541]

The main.scm file for Vice City was my first exposure to game code as a young kid. I now do programming in my day job and game dev as a side hobby. You can say my career and life passions are directly rooted back to the work you guys did in the early 2000's. Watching you comb through lines of code, pointing out oddities, reminiscing about colleagues, chain smoking cigarettes at 7AM with a beer in hand, all while on a journey to find out how they cut your name out of the game after randomly stumbling across the reVC github... for me, this is one of the most hilarious and relatable videos on KZbin ever. Please never delete this.

[@TYNEPUNK]

thanks man, a few times ive been like shit i need to delete, rockstar will kill me. I guess they got bigger fish to fry. My career was also rooted in modding, I started my real career modding "gloom deluxe" on the amiga, actually made an official sequel released globally - lets call it a total conversion (and this got me the job, alongside one of the projects i had just completed a MMO called VARS). Tearing games apart is a valuable way to learn, and then rebuilding them, well that is a whole new skill. I was so young I had some "adult" help from my mate dave newton, he really guided me on how to do this stuff. He was a real coder, I was just a script kiddy. By the time I hit rockstar what I had done was every summer I did a 10 week project when not at uni, you know how the french teacher says hey dont forget to practise your french over the holidays! And we all laugh hard, I did exactly that, I sat myself a challenge and I did 15 hrs a day until the end of the holiday and made something quite amazing. I hope to cover each one on my channel soon too,

[@dinglemaniac1541]

@@TYNEPUNK in that case I'll download a backup in case, haha. I always wondered how the hell game devs learned so many new engines and tools throughout the 90's and early 2000's. Videogames evolved so much during that time that it must've been chaotic as hell. Defs a contrast to these days where anyone wanting to learn game development usually resorts to either Unity or UE almost immediately. It's maybe too easy now! My day job involves building IT service management platforms for different corporations.. simple javascript most of the time really, and a lot of pressure to recycle old code to maintain consistency. I feel like a script kiddy alot myself. When it comes to game dev, I consider myself a level designer first, programmer second. I know enough to get by, but not without a lot of roadblocks. I just enjoy the artsy side to game design a lot more. Right now I'm trying to figure out if a retro styled open world game the size of GTA3 is doable by just one person in UE4. Probably a project that will never see the light of day, but it's the kind of stuff that forces you to tap in and learn every crevice of the engine slowly. I reckon it'd be a cool way to demonstrate just how far game engines have come in 20 years. I'll maybe space it out with some smaller projects in between whenever I get bored. lawl. Also 15 hours a day is some crazy shit, and I know what that's like to do hahaha. I sometimes wish the game industry wasn't in the state it was in now, otherwise I'd be up to do that myself. It's hard to bring myself to give that much time to it after doing it for my job all day. I guess thems the breaks! Or maybe I'm just making excuses :)

[@tigdrecardoso]

Something similiar here, found out about San Andreas Multiplayer when I was around 15 and now I'm a Software Engineer.

[@glowing0wl858]

I don't think he was smoking cigs. That was something else lol.

[@TYNEPUNK]

@@glowing0wl858 actually mac baren rolling baccy!.. chocolate flavour.

[@petedavis7970]

You know, it's Wikipedia. Add yourself and any other programmers who were on the project. That's how Wikipedia gets more accurate.

[@TYNEPUNK]

i actually did add myself but it was removed after a yr or so, was on imdb also got removed. problem is since i was removed i had to put (scenes removed). i actually think even my voice line is gone since i have never heard it once in all the time i played, i did one line outside malibu club.

[@blakegriplingph]

Goes to show how the R* devs are a wholly different character compared to those bean counters at their parent company Take-Two.

[@TYNEPUNK]

oh yes theyve become twats. was never always that way

[@LegionVC]

This was really interesting to listen to, especially getting to hear your stories about what it was like at DMA Design / Rockstar North. I think the reason your name is not in the credits is because Rockstar has this policy to not credit people that leave before the development of one of their games is completed. It has happened before. For example, the person who coded the vehicle handling and physics for GTA 3 is not listed in the credits of that game either. His name is Bill Henderson and he is listed in the file that controls the vehicle handling as the author. By the way, during the video you mentioned that you have some screenshots of the game that you took during development. Is there any chance you'd be willing to share those? Or anything else you might still have related to the development cycle. Vice City is one of my most favorite games of all time and it'd be awesome to see something we have never seen before.

[@TYNEPUNK]

Im really wary to share any stuff that might get me buggered by rockstar. But there are some things on my instagram if you look, same name as my channel. I love rockstar and have a lot more to share probably, but will do so in time.

[@TYNEPUNK]

also thank you for the info about Bill Henderson. I feel for him. I sometimes wonder if I did not achieve enough in the current build, after all mine was network coding for 95% of the time, so none of was committed to the real build. Despite that I did commit some real stuff and the networking stuff if not ditched was a precursor to something very large. Even if it was ditched I did detailed reports and analysis on online GTA for them. Technically I was involved at the very birth of something huge. Im just happy they forgot to delete me from the file itself. I will say this as a profound statement, I was the first person to order a modem and do any network coding for Rockstar North.

[@TYNEPUNK]

ironically, I am the GODFATHER OF GTA ONLINE. only just realised.

[@TYNEPUNK]

ludicrous but true its me.

[@ghos7bear]

@@TYNEPUNK You can always leak the screenshots anonymously *wink-wink*. Seriously though, its sad to see Take2 and Rockstar being so fierce to modders and community, back in the day they were supportive of modders. Btw, you probably had a hand in development of multiplayer leftovers in GTA3, since GTA 3 PC version was developed alongside PS2 Vice City version: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4aygKp3l52YftU Maybe you can remember some of the stuff in the video.

[@truman_white]

Hello! Bit of a GTA modder myself and must say it's nothing short of hilarious and ironic how you, a former Rockstar developer, don't support their takedowns of such remarkable projects like this. It is thanks to modding that I'm taking my first steps in the game dev industry as well, something Rockstar should very much consider when hiring people. I have no interest working with them after their actions in 2021 but there is plenty of fish in the sea! Thank you for this video as well, this is brilliant :D

[@kobrasoft-yx9vr]

They dont pay their software / game testers very well at all, it was like 14-19k a year living in scotland? and they said weeks could be from 37.5 hours to double 80+ to meet deadlines!!! shocking pay for entry level?

[@truman_white]

@@kobrasoft-yx9vr very shady business practices, no doubt. We don't even have to get ahead of ourselves too much, see how Michael Hollick was very much underpaid for his phenomenal work on Niko's voice (and yes, that was 2008 but it tells you something about Rockstar as a company). It's very sad, considering I've grown through these years to love GTA games so much to the point I create content for them, and to know the company behind the final work is not very good at all is saddening.

[@kobrasoft-yx9vr]

@@truman_white yeah shocking they expect you to put in the overtime when it comes to releases which I read could be anything from 1-2 months before the date, thats if it didnt get pushed back and you were expected to work upto double hours 40-80 hours a week. Said in the description that you would basically live at rockstar in scotland during releases and to drop everything else? But only pay like 19k? insulting!!! I also read that some employers in the building were so excited by the graffiti code of old gta games all over the rockstar building!! BUT NO ALLOWED TO TAKE PHOTOS OF THE CODE! security / bosses stopped them doing it? shocking ay? dont mean to slam rockstar so much but I think they have lost they values, they are just a money making business and dont want to make GTA 6 because they are still milking DLC and purchases via GTA 5! its been 10 years since we had a new GTA game! MONEY COMPANY! oh well hoping when they release GTA 6 that it is the finished game and bug free! at least they release full games! And yeah NICO's voice actor got shafted he only got like 100k I heard and no royalties but didnt he fall out with them? funny cause Nico is actually prob my fave GTA character wish they did a proper remake / remaster whilst we wait for GTA 6 but doubt rockstar have the balls to that!

[@kobrasoft-yx9vr]

What sort of Mods do you do? have you done any on PS4? or just PC? do you have a channel? would love to see your mods? respect mate. Software developer myself so always interested in this type of stuff.

[@truman_white]

@@kobrasoft-yx9vr Rockstar have become the very thing they used to critique, no doubt. Hollick didn't feel (rightfully so) that his pay was fair for the his work performance. As for myself, I'm a GTA modder for the older titles. I've participated in Midway development back in GTA Underground (before Rockstar had sent us a DMCA strike); did small contributions with vehicles and map for Liberty City '01; created a bunch of lore friendly vehicles and characters for San Andreas; I was developing GTA UK too, but had to drop it for reasons superior to mine. I still like to mod from time to time but right now I'm mostly investing time in becoming established as a 3D artist in the game industry.

[@stacklysm]

I couldn't help myself but celebrate when you finally found your name in the MIAMI branch, that was a journey and a half. I never played any of the GTA titles, but I do recognize the impact this franchise (mainly VC) had on the gaming industry, you're an absolute legend!

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

What still surprises me is just how quickly Vice City was released after GTA III, yet it felt years ahead. There was only about a year between the two and then it was only about another two years before San Andreas turned up. Even at the time I don't feel like GTA III ever aged too well. Vice City was not long after and was better in absolutely every way.

[@TYNEPUNK]

@@halfbakedproductions7887 yeh i think a winning formula without much dark code changes is very easy to do. spice it up with cut scenes and voices and new levels. It did not suprise me how fast san andreas came, but yeh content creators made that one.

[@rolf2825]

wtf are u waiting for lmao

[@zahidshabir4038]

All of them were very impactful except GTA 2 and its expansions maybe to me at least. GTA 1 started the whole thing and popularised the genre GTA 2 was just extra story and so were London expansions for it GTA III was the first 3D game in the series which helped pave way for the 3D open world free roam genres GTA VC further helped kick off the franchise and was the best selling PS2 game before SA launched GTA SA further expanded on the series by provided a humungous map for an open world game and lots to do in terms of missions and in game content and you could change the weight muscles and hair of the player to name a few revolutionary things GTA IV was the first HD game in the series and had one of the best stories (my personal favourite single player story and I like it so much I use the in game pager ringtone as the ringtone on my phone) and was the first to add a multiplayer mode even if it was limited compared to GTA V and also it was one of the first open world games to have a multiplayer (excluding FPS titles) GTA V further improved the graphics and then also introduced a very well thought out multiplayer with DLC and missions although I do understand that GTAO is pretty much a cash grab for Rockstar at this point which I don't think was their main intention but maybe I am wrong

[@aiedyn]

@@zahidshabir4038 for what it's worth, GTA 2 really expanded upon the whole respect thing - with certain jobs locking out depending on how many you'd done for rivals. it also plays leagues better than 1 (and London; both London packs are an expansion to 1), play em back to back and you'll see what i mean (or just play 2 honestly it's fucking dope and i get the feeling you haven't yet) anyway can you tell i grew up on GTA 2 lol

[@QINGCHARLES]

LOL. Don't sweat being removed from the credits. I was removed from the credits of Abomination even though I wrote the whole 3D engine, most of the 2D engine and most of the tooling. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmPOlX54Zp2Wbas

[@longlostwraith5106]

Perhaps it's you who should be "sweating" a bit more instead? You did so much and didn't even get the recognition you deserved. Being bitter about it is actually the normal response, accepting it... isn't.

[@ongedierte3606]

ViceChee is probably a special Cheetah that the FBI (MiamiCop?) uses that has 3 side mirrors

[@ghos7bear]

1:02:05 The code is indeed obfuscated during compilation, and as far as I know most of these class and variable names come from few builds of the game that were built with debug mode on with all symbols intact in the executable. I remember discovering this on very first edition of GTA3 PS2 disc back then, but I think some later builds had this too, mobile versions iirc. Also thanks to same mobile versions and later remaster versions, we also got original uncompiled game scripts with all the juicy details about pre-release missions, changes and developer comments.

[@TYNEPUNK]

yeh I think if you end up one day compiling with .net theres DLLs literally shipping with EXACT code sitting in it with no obfuscation. With unity at least, this has freaked me out a bit to be honest I didnt realise anyone could read my code.

[@TYNEPUNK]

are u saying gta3 shipped with src? or some debug files? i did not realise. actually I was more into "payback" an amiga gta 1/2 clone.

[@ghos7bear]

@@TYNEPUNK Not really source, the very first release of gta 3 on ps2 was built with debug symbols left in the executable. All next disc prints didn't have that anymore, until mobile versions by grove street games which had that again AND included mission scripts in their uncompiled form (these script*.cpp files you viewed execute these mission scripts)

[@MuradBeybalaev]

I was sitting there dumbfounded how could the premise of this video even work, given the intrinsic limitations of decompilation. The dev wouldn't really be looking at any semblance of their own code, but rather a drastically reimagined, yet functionally identical, version of it. Your comment shed some light on this, even if the dev here isn't quite on the same page, which is also totally fine.

[@CanonOverseer]

​@@TYNEPUNK If you're worried about it on unity specifically you could use Il2cpp which due to its nature doesn't leave it, but yeah otherwise a decompiler can basically give you almost the exact same (at least functionally) code back (after all the compiler magic) as went in due to how the il stuff works. It is a god send for modding unity games though.

[@MrGTAmodsgerman]

There is a huge lawsuit going on against that project by TakeTwo. First they send a DCMA request but then the developers didn't accepted the request and refused it which resulted into TakeTwo getting full 100%. There is a lot silly stuff going on there. Really sad to came across this video randomly to see some actual developer loves this project while like always the top of everything is hateing it. Really sus to think about that T2/Rockstar Games is now partner of FiveM which TakeTwo also tried to take down years ago. Which didn't worked out as they were smart enough to dodge around it.

[@dealloc]

I think there's a clear distinction between reverse engineered project and FiveM. For this project, it's a bit of a gray area. If the project is a clean room implementation-meaning no-one (including any contributors) have no prior knowledge or access to the original source code nor use any of the original source code within their implementation, then TakeTwo would have a hard time claiming ownership. However, if the case is that just one contributor has some knowledge and contributed to the project, it can taint the project and TakeTwo does have possible justification for their claims. As for FiveM, its implementation was (intentionally) separated from GTA completely, in that it ships only its own executable and libraries that hooks into the GTA process at runtime. That is, they didn't provide their own version of the GTA executable. This is obviously more transformative, but still has the potential problem if tainted by a contributor with knowledge of the original source code. We know that Rockstar ended up acquiring the project. All in all it comes down to copyright and who has the burden of proof, which is different based on which jurisdiction handles the case.

[@itsfridel]

By now, the lawsuit has concluded, and everyone was let off the hook (at least in terms of the lawsuit) but with an undisclosed settlement out of court between TakeTwo and the developers. Seeing how the project was never revived afterwards, I think it's safe to say part of the agreement was they would not do so. Some speculation on my part as to why TakeTwo probably went for the project in the first place: It was rumoured back then, and as is now known, that they were going to release the remastered collection of GTA 3 etc. I suppose T2 felt threatened by this community project that had the potential to make various (technical) aspects of their own collection redundant (aside from the remastered assets) - ports to new(er) platforms, bug fixes, rendering upgrades, and so on

[@PPablinho]

@@itsfridel I've spoke to aap, the main dev of re3. Sadly he confirmed that the development is dead and also he cannot work on any GTA mod since on his github bio now says "Ex-GTA Modder", also he said that librw (the open source reimplementation of Renderware aka the engine which the OG games was built) was untouched from the lawsuit but looks like he doesn't want to work with that anymore. To this day is still hurs me on what T2 and Rockstar did to this project since GTA Vice City is one of my favourites games and I've always dreamed to not only see a project like this but also reach the full potential of the whole map and game mechanics that maybe will never see because o the company's greediness. Since OpenRW and GTA SA Unity are still there I have this vague idea to someone doing this again but now developing a game engine to recreate those GTA III and Vice City on top of that, and also creating new games with free content

[@user-fs8rn4cb6c]

​@@PPablinhoMaybe you'll be interested in "Vice Extended" mod for the existing ReVC (there's also a "Liberty Extended" for the Re3, but it's more recent and not as feature-rich) - they basically added several mechanics there that greatly expand the gameplay and feels like it's a native 1st party features - it has climbing, swimming, SA-style crouching, SA-style moving/strafing while aiming, GTA 4/5-style aiming and shooting while driving, 1st person camera mode and more. It's still in development and maybe not suitable for 100% game completion, but it's still very impressive. Some of those features could be replicated in regular GTA VC v1.00 with mods (like swimming, 1st person camera mode, aiming while driving), but ofc it's more inferior in execution

[@MrGTAmodsgerman]

@@PPablinho Please don't mention any project that are still there because there were many simular projects taken down by TakeTwo at the same time as re3 and so on (as itsfridel said in the Trilogy release phase) and many other projects. They might just missed it. There was an amazing SA Unreal based project which they also took down, now they work on a Underground 2 remake on Unreal Engine, which btw. is now in a very nice state. The biggest problem with these projects is when people make them fameous so they get the attention from TakeTwo, when it's floating around in social media and so on.

[@DumboSanchez]

what you smoking ?😏

[@pungenthuman]

Just came across this video, quite disappointed myself that Rockstar decided to remove you from the credits of the game. Did the best I could and added your name, rightfully so, to the list of programmers on the GTA Wiki. Very interesting video, amazing stories also!

[@TYNEPUNK]

You are a legend mate. See if it sticks haha I'm on the wiki already but only as voice actor 😅

[@gamanzhiydanil]

Holy moly, saw gta3, graduated from uni and got straight into working on the sequel! Nuts!

[@TYNEPUNK]

yeh that was lucky eh

[@TYNEPUNK]

I know the guy who wrote this Coors code, he was a glaswegian joker i bet it was because of the beer. he was also on the weakest link., stayed at his house one night he was a legend, i believe he was the guy writing silly coors :)

[@BaseNAND]

Cool fun fact! I have been wondering for quite some time now when working with the III/VC/SA plugin SDK why it always says Coors. I thought it was a typo the creator of the SDK made that just carried through.

[@TYNEPUNK]

@@BaseNAND yeh honestly i dont know for sure it just seems like what he would do, personally id have added that D. no code reviews back then really, u get away with anything

[@TYNEPUNK]

one misconception is that a complex game has complex code. if you use state machines well and design it well (avoid bools for states, no matter how tempting!), then a seemingly complex game can be brought together very nicely (given time, do not try to make it faster by being 'smart' keep it simple and spend the time and the code will be understandable like this, dont be that dick who wrecks readability lol). architecting the whole system is the hardest bit (but i believe even average sw engineers can handle this with experience). anyone can make a huge game given time and by being sensible and clear by use of states with substates. You can clearly see even GTA is simple, as will all games be (unless youre talking nitty gritty engine carmack shit). so dont be afraid to write your own open world game. I have done, see GENOCIDE DOLPHINS on my channel. Code is not great and its not finished, but it sort of demonstrates that idea. My code could be improved a lot, but IF IT WORKS IT WORKS, so u can sometimes leave hellish nightmares behind, if it works and you dont need to fix it (lovely thinkg about games coding). In some ways you can think of a 'state' as a tiny tiny little game of its own, that helps the brain... i guess im some ways that what android was trying to do with 'fragments' small mini 'applets' that control themself. I cannot stress enough how statemachines seem to make game design a breeze as opposed to using bools or some other form of state. I STILL fall into using booleans I must admit, but often over time I migrate things to a good old statemachine and life becomes feasible. Good luck on your games, Gaz @ TYNEPUNK/

[@leafpirate]

2:25 "i've been working all night and now i'm having a beer at 7 am" most euro programmer thing i've ever heard

[@TYNEPUNK]

thats the tynepunk way haha

[@Mastakilla91]

I'm a huge 3D era GTA fan and studied CS. I would have never imagined the actual game code is that simple. It feels more like a private project of some guys who came together to create a great game, which is good.

[@steviesoprano]

I'm a current CS student right now and I would never have imagined the code to be this simple, I was expecting a bunch of alien language.

[@somusz159]

Most game code is really simple

[@thbeam2044]

code should as simple as possible, anything else is a mistake

[@regisegek4675]

@@thbeam2044 yes, so trying to find the bugs and troubleshooting is easier

[@Diginegi]

It's not that there is anything particularly complicated, but there is just loads and loads of code. Major complexity is simply the size and making sure it all works together.

[@MKR3238]

this is super interesting and a nice trip down memory lane I'm sure :D sucks that they didn't include everyone in the credits tho

[@TYNEPUNK]

yeh! to be fair I was not a proper major dev, and barely made an impact. i think over time people get culled from things if people can barely remember what they did. I was just happy to be there :)

[@Gonzas97]

I have a question: I know nothing about coding, but as a player, and as someone who takes a lot attention to details, first of all, i love how complex gta 3 and vc were for the time. But also, i noticed many many weird or curious things about the behaviour the IA has, cuz i also play gta games a lot. Idk if it is because of the lack of time, but let me mention some stuff, (this applies for the 3D era of gta, not the HD era): -Pedestrians do not react at tanks firing their canons. -Vehicles only react to shooting if they are directly impacted by bullets, this was fixed in san andreas. -to my knowledge, bikes were complex for the devs, reason why they didn't add them in gta 3. -IA vehicles driving around the city follow some type of "invisible line", to give the illusion of driving around, reason why they look weird when turning, idk if that was made due to lag. -police only react at your behaviour unless they are directly attacked. -Sniper vision does not alert pedestrians. -pedestrians do not react to melee combats, unless they are directly attacked by you or someone else. -pedestrians do not react to molotovs unless they are affected by it. There's more, but i gotta think about them. Anyway, nice video.

[@maney9303]

i'm so glad this got recommended to me, really interesting video. thank you for the work you've done on one of the greatest games of all time!

[@TYNEPUNK]

thank you mate im glad to get some of this out of my soul and into the ether..

[@Audiojack_]

20:00 those graphics are definitely from early Habbo Hotel, any story there?

[@KvN069]

I was thinking the same, like wait a minute thats Habbo Hotel :D

[@enviscripts]

As a full-time GTA5 mod developer, this was super entertaining to watch! It's crazy to see how the game has evolved over the years! Thank you for this video - it made my day!

[@unleak64]

the rage classes are indeed are very similar

[@z3ro7o]

is that pure coding? what do you need to learn for it?

[@enviscripts]

@@z3ro7o pure coding and creativity 👌

[@z3ro7o]

@@enviscripts cool bro i am working on html css javascript maybe one day i can look up game development 🤪🤪🤪

[@Galactipod]

@@z3ro7o "Pure coding" would make you a code monkey, which you don't want to be. The vast majority of the software development process is thinking, rather than writing down code with a keyboard.

[@KashyapKing_offl]

Sorry, you dropped this👑 Thank you for making my childhood ❤❤

[@maualcarazz]

R*North made Obbe Vermeij delete some of his blog posts about life inside the company, sucks to see that after 20 years they still want to be in secrecy about their practices

[@youngknight5589]

Yeah, something about "ruining the Rockstar Mystique* I always considered that idea kind of silly especially about games from 20 years ago.

[@TYNEPUNK]

hey guys English Ben did a vid with me too kzbin.info/www/bejne/ooC9apSMjtidjpI this is mostly about how to finish vc in under an hour, good bloke him.

[@TYNEPUNK]

Hi guys my game "Tenement" is available on Nintendo Switch eShop now, PLEASE CHECK IT OUT! :D

[@farhaanmehmood-kt5be]

Awesome work :) will definitely check it out.

[@TYNEPUNK]

@@farhaanmehmood-kt5be thanks! i wish i pinned this when my vid went semi viral lol.

[@TYNEPUNK]

@@Cmdrbzrd steam banned me because i had nfts in it originally

[@VansPebble]

Why? NFTs are a sham@@TYNEPUNK

[@KewaiiGamer]

@@TYNEPUNK deserved

[@Kakerate2]

32:50 its funny that lines like that assert, basically a sanity check to exit the game if there are way too many cars in memory, are still present in even GTA V. That, or the PS4 build actually just creates cars until it overwrites something else or errors out some other way. I've HAD gta v crash from too many cars.

[@onigumo]

mins in and still rambling about bs, no wonder they removed you

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

One thing I always wanted to know was how the minimap system works. Perhaps I'll go off and study this code in more detail to try and wrap my head around it. I'd also loved to have seen the original top-down GTA open sourced, but Mike Dailly tried releasing some of his personal mementoes (design documents etc.) onto Twitter and Rockstar came down hard.

[@TYNEPUNK]

I actually assume the mini map is just an image. No camera tricky, nothing advanced at all. Perhaps broken into tiles, i dont recall the code but it should be something like that. You screen grab the game from above, block it out and voila.

[@LostieTrekieTechie]

Some games use a texture, others use a 2D mesh (like if an SVG was made of only lines and triangles)

[@ghos7bear]

Speaking of GTA 5 code, with recent leaks of GTA 6 stuff the leaker also released few cpp files from GTA 5 source code and the sources are CLEAN! Very professional, all commented, long verbose function names. Not surprising considering how well GTA 5 runs on Xbox 360 and PS3 which are 2005 hardware machines, optimization had to be PERFECT. Just imagine going back in time to 2005 with a copy of GTA 5 and showing them the game running on their hardware.

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

Yes, I saw one of the leaked GTA V files. I was very pleasantly surprised by how clean and easy to follow it was, and I have to say that the file I saw wasn't really leveraging any terribly difficult C++ concepts. I'm fairly meh with C++ and understood basically all of it. I have heard anecdotally that the code for the original RDR was a disaster, though. Not sure if that's true. You are also absolutely right in terms of the staggering difference on the same console generation. GTA IV and V released on the same generation, yet you wouldn't necessarily realise it due to how much fresher and modern V felt.

[@uwirl4338]

@@halfbakedproductions7887 Ideally a game shouldn't need to use any advanced lenguaje features or design patterns. They're big pieces of software, for sure, but not particularly complex ones aside from maybe the parts of the engine where the most performance is required.

[@CanonOverseer]

I almost wish the source did leak fully, it would be so fascinating to see the whole thing.

[@overthinkerapexx7845]

where can I find those cpp files, thanks

[@ghos7bear]

@@overthinkerapexx7845 No idea, I watched the thread when leak was going and they were posted on gtaforums but it all got scrubbed since then. Probably somebody uploaded them somewhere, but I have no idea. I haven't saved them either, they're useless by themselves but gives a good idea about state of GTA 5 sources.

[@MikkoRantalainen]

There's no way this code is decompiled from binary because decompiled code would have no defines of any kind but the state engine would use just raw numbers. It must be a copy of the original source code and it's no wonder why it cannot be found at GitHub anymore.

[@Vect0Rx]

Was rewatching this. Still waiting for that Part 2!! Also you have mentioned the camera locking up women's ass, that was used in GTA San Andreas but not in Vice City, i guess they scrapped during development and used later in San Andreas. Also drive by on helicopters were possible and did shown in Vice City trailers but they get rid of it as you pointed. Drive by on a heli kinda weird choice no wonder they did that.

[@TYNEPUNK]

oh but how cool drive by in a copter!!! man 2024 i will do part 2 hahah, to be fair this video is my most popular in decades,

[@Vect0Rx]

@@TYNEPUNKCan't wait for it, happy 2024 man!

[@Hazanko83]

It's really interesting to see code like this for something you're familiar with, and see how things were solved/implemented. You mention a few times about the brackets in switch-case statements; in c++ any newly declared variables are required to be placed within block-scope, so while it can be a ''style/visual-thing'', failing to do so will cause a compilation error for attempting to jump past a case-label.

[@TYNEPUNK]

i hadnt thought of that, you mean you can declare the same variable name (in each case) IFF its within the braces? if so thats interesting i will try tomorrow. I don know why i just never saw anyone do that, maybe my switch mentality is too javalike, but it should work the same. thanks dude. i honestly dont think i was a big switch user before rockstar, i was a boolean man and that is a VERY bad way to code. leads to a mess instantly.

[@HikikomoriDev]

...Having the source code like here is important because now the games can be natively ported everywhere and we won't have to rely on definite editions or anything like that, the game code can be made portable and then implemented on a plethora of other architectures and user-facing Operating Systems like M2 Macs, Power10 systems, and even ARM PCs, where there was never a compiled executable for these platforms before, in the future you can just port the code onto the newer systems ourselves and be done without waiting for a game development house to port it. Mods will be easier and more powerful than ever before, and we don't have to rely on 32bit runtime of the games, they can be adapted to 64bit and take advantage of all the newer hardware technologies such as overcoming in-game RAM ceiling limits that where typical of the early 2000s.

[@TYNEPUNK]

could not agree more, in my next vid i might try porting it to the AMIGA! now that would be nice!! I think GTA started on amiga but then ps stole the lime light. Im EX AMIGA all the way!

[@inertboi]

I know nothing about nothing about coding, but it is such a strange feeling watching a person who participated in creating a video game that shaped my childhood reminisce about days they worked on it. So cool, but at the same time so scary and sad, in terms of how long, long ago it all was.

[@ghos7bear]

7:58 were these screenshots posted? I'm mad for pre-release GTA3 era stuff.

[@Josh1billion]

I remember, as a kid starting to learn to program games, thinking about how amazing it'd be to be able to see the source code of my favorite games and see what kind of magic they're doing - that they must be some kind of super programmers writing some mystical code from which I could derive infinite wisdom if only I got a peek. As an adult with over 20 years of programming experience, it's more like "yup that seems about right."

[@TYNEPUNK]

yeh exactly, we need to remember coders are human, they are no better than you if you have 15 to 20 yrs experience. i like to think of john carmack puzzling over how to do an if statement when he first started. The ultimate wisdom gained from looking at pro projects for me is use switch statements as often as possible, as opposed to using bools.

[@jonzo_]

I'm so happy I was recommended this video and your channel. Definitely my vibe. Really interesting so far. Love the humour, too. Thanks for bringing one of the best games of all time to life!

[@TYNEPUNK]

much appreciated mate.

[@MERTYILMAZGAMES]

I've always had impostor syndrome when it came to game dev and coding. I always beat myself up beacuse my code is not perfect in regard to OOP principles. The fact that almost all logic in this game is checked by hundreds of switch statements including hunderds of cases made me feel rather odd. I can not comprehend that GTA of all games is made like this. Reflecting on myself, whenever I find myself using if-else and switch statements, I go down the road of making abstract classes and creating concrete ones that implement finite state machines. I work in a casual mobile gaming studio, and the pretty much only developer in my project is me btw. I feel a lot more confident now that I have watched this video. I realized that I should not be so hard on myself. And yes Visual Studio sucks.

[@M0VER]

Bloody cracking video! I’m glad Leslie came off as a good guy, I was super sad to see him leave the company.

[@TYNEPUNK]

me too man, such a talented and charismatic leader. in some way i hope rockstar fail without him after their treatment.

[@ali99_82]

You made my childhood You have my highest respects

[@sampurnakc]

This is a gem and at the same time intimidating. I understand how difficult it is to get up early for commute and think of this 'commute' time as 'wasted time' in the back of the mind constantly. I can't imagine how you were able to manage all the shit together after having to wake up tired every single day and work on the project of this scale 'cause I cannot even catch up to the scripts written for extremely abstracted engine of unity.. I hope to be capable of making fun of the code written in the past when I grow old. I bet it's fun to make fun of those variable and method names LMAO

[@TYNEPUNK]

well practice makes perfect. even when you are in a bad state if you know code u know it, reminds me of my gf being drunk vomitting into the toilet, she (being taiwanese) can still speak english LOL (sorry for supplying the tequilas!!). I think if I was a more mature person I could have got to bed at 11pm and be fresh and ready for the day, but tthere was that uni hangover, still had mates kipping on my sofa all night etc. and i seem to be irresponsible when it comes to getting an early night, even now 20 yrs later. Ordinary code logic becomes super clear if you code every day. My latest game im just tapping it together and it all seems so stupidly easy, so yeah its time you spend writing code, it becomes easier than reading an article in the times. Also on my next job where i worked as a mobile coder, i felt the commute could be used because id test the game on the way there and back on my phone, by the time the journey was over i felt like i could steam ahead with fixes, but u werent allowed to do that at r*.

[@TYNEPUNK]

also my fault for not relocating to the area where the studio was, i was in a different city.

[@FreeAimDog]

i always wondered why you cant steal the police maverick that comes after you on 3 stars when you get up to its doors at low altitude, now we know why. its an AI thats alive not a real vehicle. in san andreas though thats a different story, you can actually steal the police maverick and the news chopper.

[@ТомашШубарић]

I liked the part where he was a bitter old man the entire time

[@TYNEPUNK]

hahah example..?

[@olduXD]

so no part 2?

[@jw200]

I wish someone leaked GTA2 sourcecode. car and PED AI, car physics, the most interesting. Rest can be coded.

[@hitfromcs]

c++ is such an awesome language

[@ToadyEN]

did you work on Vice city? just kidding dude, something therapeutic about you going through the code.

[@kingcharles5346]

the doob spark made me laugh

[@_Devil]

Really cool to know that you worked on Vice City. While I'm one of the 8 people alive who liked the Stories prequel more than the Original, I can't deny the impact that Vice City (and GTA 3) had on the gaming industry. While your name may not be in the credits, just know that your work revolutionized the open-world genre permanently. In a way, I would say that you and all the other unnamed Devs who worked on these games are indirectly what's going to make the next GTA such a great title. If y'all hadn't done what you did, exactly how you did it, when you did it, who knows how much the franchise could have changed? Thank you for your work, man

[@TYNEPUNK]

appreciate that my friend. even the small work i did, i actually created gta online, but will never be mentioned for it. might mention that in my next vid. i might even leak internal docs if i can find them.

[@deadsince1996]

#2 please!

[@TYNEPUNK]

definitely will be fun!

[@fyvefouroh]

@@TYNEPUNK Did you ever get around to doing a part 2? I just skimmed through your channel and didn't notice it anywhere. Would love to see you compile it with your credits in, very enjoyable 2 hours. I am a solo dev, still trying to make my own engine and am very much a noob. Rockstar's games from my childhood is the main source of my inspiration, especially the older ones such as vice city and san andreas. I love gta 4 too, but something about how simple and complex those games are at the same time give me so much motivation to do my own work. Anyways, if you haven't done a part 2, I'll keep my fingers crossed it comes out one day.

[@JeandrePetzer]

@@TYNEPUNK Part 2 🥰

[@Flackon]

How does it work to be for 5 months on a large project like Vice City? I imagine such a codebase would take a month or two to onboard someone to familiarize themselves with it. then you only get 3-4 months of "productive" programming out of them, as they go. Is that common practice in the industry?

[@NTxC]

I can't believe a video like this exists. I was modding GTA III back in 2006, creating mission pack mods for it using BW's GTA III Mission Builder lol.

[@th0m4sspeed]

Hey man, I’m looking for someone who wants to make new missions with me for GTA 3. I want to make the removed missions from the removed character Major Hale. Are you interested? 😁

[@TheBreakingBenny]

Great to have you around, mate! I'm sure the Darkel files are a remnant of the cut character (named Darkel) who'd task the player with killing a number of people within a set time, like the kill frenzies in GTAs 1 and 2. He got axed from GTA III because he didn't fit in with the other characters, so his missions were instead spread out over the map as context-free side jobs.

[@TYNEPUNK]

wow I had no idea, funny how they end up as code files. But then during dev so much madness happens, thanks for letting me know!

[@arthurvyater656]

You might be better off not knowing this, but Darkel's voice actor is credited in GTA3

[@TheBreakingBenny]

@@arthurvyater656 I did know! I wish I got to hear what the man sounded like, though

[@onurbozkurt2431]

This is your destiny, you know what to do..

[@idontexist-satoshi]

"rolling joints with a skateboard over his lap" bro thats just a standard night in the UK. You just described me haha.

[@obnoxiousthegod]

wow haven’t seen someone record with something other then OBS in ages !

[@HexTheOG]

Original code layout (white spaces, indentation), variable names, function names, syntactic sugar, and typically comments do not survive compilation. Any comments or code formatting are just the reverse engineers. So while its logically almost 1:1 with the original game, the actual object, function, and variable names are probably all different in the original source as well (unless they had debug symbols which shipped w the game). Great video man really entertaining and cool perspective.

[@halfbakedproductions7887]

Rockstar might not even have the original code anymore. There have been a number of hugely successful games where the code is confirmed lost forever, particulary Final Fantasy VII and VIII, also the original Sims. I've also heard numerous anecdotes that the source code for the original Red Dead Redemption is a total trainwreck and that's part of why it never came to PC.

[@TYNEPUNK]

@@halfbakedproductions7887 looks like code can hide from no one unless its obfuscated. red dead ditn come to pc? thats madness. it works :)

[@EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH]

according to the cutting room floor GTA vice city and GTAIII have debug symbols shipped with the game

[@sobertillnoon]

My understanding of why the definitive edition games started out so bad was because they were essentially a PC port of a mobile port of a PC port of a PS2 game. So like, there's bound to be issues.

[@ghos7bear]

Looks like KZbin blessed this video, that's how I found it too

[@Iwan342]

watched the whole video from front to end, great to listen to all the info and stories!

[@TYNEPUNK]

thank you very much.

[@TYNEPUNK]

Thanks guys. please buy my game TENEMENT on nintendo eshop now (also available on pc from Epic Games Store) kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpecm6tpna5_epo

[@aerovespr]

He starts reviewing code at 7:17

[@johns4247]

Thank you for being part of by far the best game I have played in my life. That game brings back so many memories.

[@bartholomewgander540]

There is handy tool for lines counting, it's called "cloc", no need for writing script to do that :)

[@Griimnak]

I would just like to thank the developers of these eras for their passion and real love they put into those games. Seems that the developers of modern tripple A titles are just.. it's a different environment all around I'm sure.

[@mew3385]

I'm sorry but you seem to just scrobble through random files without actually understanding any of it, occasionally passing of some weird/random remark (very surface level, no substance). You heavily guess certain parts as well. Are you sure you actually worked on this game? Were you in the art section lol.

[@TYNEPUNK]

lol, you got me, i was actually the tea lady. i was glancing over shoulders, but mostly it was about serving tea :)

[@TYNEPUNK]

i get you though, im basicallyt doing that, i dont recall the code well and didnt even know it that well at the time.

[@TYNEPUNK]

but yeh i was an actual paid coder on this game :)

[@TYNEPUNK]

forgot to say i think that script1.cs is where mission devs add their code to it, which is why it is huge. its auto added or it was in 2003.

[@nigrao]

I know habbo when I see it, what's the story behind VARS?

[@3ombieautopilot]

Where's part 2? Awesome vid!

[@hoteny]

How can they remove anyone from credits that actually worked for the project? That should be illegal.

[@TYNEPUNK]

haha rockstar prob is illegal. To be fair it happens even if u go on holiday, you get back in 3 weeks and someone has demoted you on the creds or even removed you. Many times as lead coder I came back and saw it, I just deleted them and put my name back, I stuck them in co-coders or thanks to, but if not theyd have taken cred for whole game in 3 weeks,

[@xan1242]

Can't wait for the second part! Heh

[@albertdeepleaner]

what are your thoughts on kye/kalcor? do you think he did a good job being vicecity's "coder?" and what is your opinion about the current SAMP platform, why do you think kalcor/kye still keep SAMP alive? why doesn't he just close it up and bury it and that's it?

[@OfficialBoominBeats]

Wow VARS looks really similar to habbo hotel

[@abg44]

I wanted to ask. I don't know if it's a fever dream I had. But i recall that there was a cheat code to switch your characters' player models to a nearby ped. I remember entering this cheat code until I could change it to the Swat operator. It would be cool to see some of the cheat codes

[@TYNEPUNK]

I imagine that would be a really simple hack but I have never heard of it. I guess technically you can transfer the animator and "ownership" player code to anyone in the map. Sometimes when I find that sort fo thing I make it a cheat and then when im bored this cheat always becomes a powerup :)

[@abg44]

​@TYNEPUNK I really appreciate your responses. I've always wondered about the cheat codes of Vice City back on PS2. Keep up the work, I look forward to more videos like this :)

[@TheGoodChap]

​​@@TYNEPUNKyou briefly manage a slow down function which slows time down, I remember that was an effect of a certain drug you could find and a cheat code. Its been so long I don't really remember though

[@KitsuneAlex]

You can always see how code within the same language evolves when you look at an old codebase. Them still using a C-prefix for all their class types shows that this is a bit older :D Super cool video! :)

[@adilkhalifa1059]

How do you know the auto-refactor part of reverse-engineering process didn't just print it in that convention? I'm not a CPP engineer but I was under the assumption that all machine code loses it's variable names (I know this is the case with the languages I work with) and the fact that they're all prefixed with the datatype of the object (c: class, b: boolean, etc.) is probably refactoring done as part of the reverse engineering process in order to indicate to the user the datatype of that particular property? Or is that just a standard convention CPP devs follow & the original identifiers can actually be restored?

[@KitsuneAlex]

@@adilkhalifa1059 well losing all the information is right and the prefixes are just a style choice. But it was used a lot in old C++ codebases. That's why i mentioned it. Been working with C++ for a good while now. The reverse engineers themselves probably chose/added the names anyways, so they just picked that specific style.

[@bdnugget]

@@adilkhalifa1059 Yeah I also wonder this, I assume it all gets mangled and the reverse engineering is figuring out that the functions do and renaming them yourself to something more meaningful. Or maybe some dev left the debug symbols somewhere? Lol

[@leo31420]

Maybe they distributed the debug symbols in some platform? It would be way too much work to infer manually the names for all symbols. For class names and methods it’s easier as they can be exported in dlls but I’m surprised local variables in cpp files have all names too.

[@KitsuneAlex]

Usually RE code bases start of with generated names, which are generated by the disassembler during initial decompilation. Then people start manually refactoring things to make sense@@leo31420

[@sailorgaijin8838]

i love how youtube recommends gems like this out of the blue

[@ghos7bear]

Credits are in /src/render/Credits.cpp btw, sadly no original comments there to know what happened to your name's line

[@acatisfinetoo3018]

I really like this coding style...It's rare you can you look at code today and have a good idea what's it's doing. I've seen more modren high level games and they are unreadable.

[@_DML_]

Thank you for your work on a game that I have fond memories of, and which marks a special time in my life. I played Vice City on PC back in the day, during my final year of high school. Only a few games bring back those memories vividly, but VC is high on the list of those which do.

[@developerdeveloper67]

Make a video telling us your stories about working on Rockstars on the PS2 days.

[@abg44]

I want to say thank you for making such a memorable game. I cherish the original trilogy with such nostalgia attached. Vice city was one of the first GTA games i played.

[@nahco3994]

I can't help it... whenever I hear the term "Rockstar Developer" now, I can only think of Dylan Beattie, who invented an esoteric programming language called "Rockstar", where every valid program is also the lyrics for a 90s rock song. And people actually seem to like it, because some cool dudes went ahead an built all sorts of interpreters and transpilers for various other languages.

[@TYNEPUNK]

lol that is genius, i did try invent my own langs, but its so bloody difficult. ANTLR can help... my mate Jim Idle is one of the main devs. (Hi Jim!)

[@tomtravis858]

1:04:29 people have decompiled projects without that, modern RE tools are great.

[@creepychris420]

damn dude i'm watching this bc interesting but you sound more geordie than me lol 😂epic stuff lol

[@TYNEPUNK]

haha where u from? i was born in ashington and raised in cramlington, father from lemmington, mother fom wallsend.

[@dafffodil]

Dreamcast version... Decompiled GTA VC... How feasible...?

[@TJames7869]

Super cool! Lots o memories as a kid with my dad.

[@ghos7bear]

1:34:20 My guess why they split scripting commands like that into 8 separate files would be that IDE at the time had hard time processing switch statement with 1000 cases inside 10000 line file. It was probably Visual Studio 97.

[@TYNEPUNK]

yes I think that is a correct assumption. Still struggles now with big files lol. I THINK we were using codewarrior and microsoft sourcesafe. Code warrior was alright in the day not sure what became of it.

[@TYNEPUNK]

looks like codewarrior went low level only! shocking. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CodeWarrior

[@pipdjs]

Super cool to hear from one of the guys that worked on one of the greatest games ever made. Sucks that you were removed from the credits.

[@ruslansmirnov9006]

he wasnt 2:32:23

[@pipdjs]

@@ruslansmirnov9006yeah but thats not visible in-game

[@ruslansmirnov9006]

@@pipdjs but we are not looking for people writing their names on blocks of granite themselves, right?

[@NeverGiveUpYo]

Really interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing!

[@m4rt_]

fun fact, there is a tool called cloc (count lines of code) that you can use to count lines of code, blank lines, lines with comments, etc.

[@TYNEPUNK]

ah yes i used to use that, awesome tool.. gets me excited seeing how many lines ive written lol.

[@m4rt_]

@@TYNEPUNK I use it a lot, though when I switched over to Jai it didn't count the lines, so I ended up just making a simple bash script to do it. if you're courious it's basically: find $path -type f -name '*.jai' to get the files, then just l loop over it and do cat $file | wc -l to get the line count, then just add it together.

[@TYNEPUNK]

@@m4rt_ thanks looked up JAI. Seems a bit dodgy relying on a language designed by a game designer, but I hope it goes well :)

[@m4rt_]

@@TYNEPUNK Some may not like it, but I personally prefer it. Jonathan Blow designed it to avoid the mistakes of C++. atm I think there is around 500 beta users using it for various things (mainly game dev, but also some other things like text editors, cli tools, gui tools, an OS, etc), and Jon is using it to create a game from scratch.

[@TYNEPUNK]

@@m4rt_ thats great, I have watched some of his videos he seems like he knows what he is saying but can he make a c++ beater, I doubt it. always interesting when someone tries. Personally I dont think he is anywhere near as smart as he believes but i could be wrong.

[@grandtheftauto1233]

Have you ever built it? Interesting video

[@Vypertech]

I feel like it would be a nice idea to contact ign. Can't wait for "gta vice city developer reacts to gta vice city Speedruns" :)

[@fyvefouroh]

That would be fun!

[@th0m4sspeed]

Hey man, I’m looking for someone who wants to make new missions with me for GTA 3. I want to make the removed missions from the removed character Major Hale. Are you interested? 😁

[@simoc.1225]

I once asked the main dev of reGTA how did they manage to untangle all the binary file to get code and they told me that the mobile version has lots of debug-symbol leftovers (i guess because gcc doesn't strip all of them even if you don't pass -g) , i guess thanks thanks to wardrum studios! Also I think DMA left some stuff on the disc of the very first gta3 release.

[@TYNEPUNK]

its quite amazing someone cutting the cd didnt remove that, but at that point i guess its like **** im not touching a damn thing, this is rockstars latest release and i dont know for sure