Examining the Grand Cathay Roster

The official army roster of Grand Cathay has at last been revealed! Let's check out the hosts of the Celestial Dragon Emperor!
Article: www.totalwar.c...
#LoremasterofSotek #GrandCathay #TotalWarWarhammer3

[@Otakahunt]

Benefits of not using dragon form: -Youre not susceptible to anti-large units -Youre not an easy big target for archers and cannons -You can hide in the forest, a dragon cant really hide... they are way too big. If no other benefits come up those are the easy ones... current dragons have issues with their size, easy to shoot and kill with mass focusfire, the same wont work very well against foot lords since many ranged units will be obstructed if the lord is in melee range fighting an infantry unit. Im certain in multiplayer this transformation will become somewhat of a skillcheck... knowing when to transform and when to go back can make or break a fight, assuming dragonform isnt just simply overpowered ofcourse.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

dragon form will be for cheering air by dodging, land form will be about cheesing ai by hiding, if they can only caste when on foot, you'll be dragon form until you want to nuke units in an instant, assuming they don't just prefer to have a wizard hero

[@mattmurray6125]

Also we don’t know if the dragons can use spells or not

[@sr71silver]

Another possibility is that they could lose any stats and abilities that come from weapons and armor while in dragon form. after all weapons and armors designed and sized for a human would be damn near useless for a dragon.

[@GaratghDeloi]

One may also speculate that the dragon transformation might have a cooldown or other limitations preventing you from changing all the time.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@GaratghDeloi that would encourage people to keep them as dragons, as it means you'd have to go longer without them being dragons

[@kallemort]

I'm pretty sure you're mistaken about the rocket launcher infantry. They were shotgunners in the original trailer too, the visual of their fire was simply obscured by the rocket batteries which were firing from above them at the same time. Thus it looked like their shots were exploding, when it was the artillery.

[@arceusstardestroyer9276]

I noticed your comment about the lack of mobility of their archers. I honestly think it makes sense because their army is built to hold lines not attack and be mobile :) Great video man!

[@LinkLegend0]

that seems like a nightmare for legendary difficulty, given enemy army bonuses.

[@ikitclaw4852]

@@LinkLegend0 Skaven are a good example of races doing a well enough job, even with harder mobility, it can work

[@arceusstardestroyer9276]

@@LinkLegend0 Yes but they have confirmed that they are changing that. It wont just be stat changes and computer cheats for those lvls. Though keep in mind the game isn't exactly balanced for anything high then either Hard or Very Hard. You play for the challenge lol isn't that the point? You can never win a game at that difficulty using normal logical strategies

[@LinkLegend0]

@@arceusstardestroyer9276 you can with all factions on field battles, it's the siege defences that requires some wonky plays. but I hope they do balancing it and present the hardest possible challenge the game can offer in a fun way that does not require abusing bad ai.

[@arceusstardestroyer9276]

@@LinkLegend0 I very much disagree. I love using melee focused armies like the greenskins. They're almost impossible to play with successfully on higher difficulties without cheesing a little bit.

[@Vonstab]

It's interesting that Cathay and Kislev effectively ended up swapping places when you look at what people were expecting the two races to be and what we actually got. Making Cathay so grounded and human centric was a bold move in some ways but then we do know that it is human or human like "good" factions that end up being the most popular. Overall Cathay looks very solid with a clear and well thought out visual design. And while it does reuse more assets than Kislev it does so in a smart way with the army having four distinctive branches of service each with easily recognisable clothing and armour.

[@Mythralblade04]

"curious about how they'll incentivize stacking wizards" Three words; Buffed. Overcast. Comets. That is all.

[@maximal99334]

10/10 roster for me. One of the best launch rosters yet.

[@spoonyofsalty1167]

I very much appreciate sotek's measured response to this and that his video isn't full of extremes or pessimism. Definitely looking forward to playing Cathay, probably first, unless one of the new reveals impresses me even more.

[@williamking1081]

....... Ogres anyone?

[@spoonyofsalty1167]

@@williamking1081 they could change my mind but haven't been revealed yet so idk

[@thearoacebrit4515]

@@spoonyofsalty1167 Has it changed your mind?

[@spoonyofsalty1167]

@@thearoacebrit4515 I'm split between Cathay and ogres now.

[@thearoacebrit4515]

@@spoonyofsalty1167 personally I'm between Ogres and Khorne

[@TheRadude]

Bretonnian Lord: *Sees Cathay Peasant Horseman* Bretonnian Lord: *Questions Reality and has Heart Attack*

[@calebbarnhouse496]

brettonia has two forms of peasent horsemen

[@yochitoranaga]

yeomen and yeomen archer would like to have a word with you.

[@dawi4ever]

Both Kislev and Cathay have good solid starting rosters the guess is will dlc and flc add more of their fantastical elements

[@1YCARADOFACAO]

I think Kislev's roster is a bit small, but the mount options are the big loss there

[@bornstellareternal]

Guys three is dead on arrival, all it's going to have is 7-8 new playable races, a major rework to seiges, new spellcasting with defensive spells, the largest launch map of the franchise and years of post launch support. Basically nothing

[@dbehnia2351]

Lmao that’s how this community do be sounding.

[@rbrizzle4394]

So happy with the lord mount options, Honestly I’m happy as fuck about the roster as a whole. 2022 can’t come soon enough I’m ready to start a cathay campaign!

[@kingiking110]

Not only empire generals but the skill trees of almost all of the agents of the original WH factions need a serious update.

[@emilsoderman3691]

I don't think the moves the Alchemist did was the Lore of Metal, I think that was just the melee animations.

[@Rukdug]

So I'm guessing that Monkey Warriors and Shaolin-er, Celestial Dragon Monks will be DLC, as well as the "Stone Dogs" (probably living Shisha statues) that got mentioned a few times in old lore. Might also get a version of some sort of Gongsun Zan Analogue for some missile cav. Meanwhile, it looks like the non-caster lords are going to be the Total War version of Cao Cao, Liu Bei, and Yuan Shao aka "Commanders with some special buff abilities." The Peasant Longspears are giving me flashbacks to Yari Ashigaru in Shogun 2 in all honesty, especially with how Harmony is supposed to buff them. Interesting that we don't have hero level users of either Yin or Yang, so that seems like a possible FLC or DLC addition, unless CA intends for you to never use Yin and Yang in a single army, which feels....weird given how Yin and Yang work both IRL and for Cathay. Also, depending on the spells, that mixed Yin/Life lore of Miao Ying's is looking like a go to pick for a lot of people. Like, healing your soldiers while reflecting enemy missile attacks, summoning a spectral unit for a good deep strike, and using a well placed Awakening of the Wood? That's like lore of Vampires with the added benefit of shutting down enemy missile attacks. All that having been said I do like that Cathay has a very obvious set of weaknesses in being mostly slow, and lacking in the AP department. I always enjoy when a faction has an obvious weakness, rather than having something to deal with every situation at first glance because it makes them play more uniquely, and it eliminates the choice paralysis I sometimes suffer when it comes to units.

[@singularleaf3895]

It doesn't seem lacking in AP most halbreds for other factions have good AP and the same with crossbows. My guess is that they are going to have low melee attack and be slow. And the Yang and Yin lores seem really powerful so they might just be keeping them as Lord level spells until they get a good balance. Which I think is the smart decision.

[@themeteam7159]

I’m curious if, lore wise, skaven learned how to make jezzails from copying crane gunners, like how clan Eshin learned stealth tactics from the ninja of Nippon?

[@singularleaf3895]

I just hope that they keep the lore of Araby being the originators of Jezzails. Even if we don't get Araby since that is one of Araby's claim of fame.

[@themeteam7159]

@@singularleaf3895 Maybe a combination of both?

[@MrWheelman82]

Putting the marketing controversies aside, the roster looks really good and fun to me

[@aran998]

Public order has certainly increased a bit with this reveal

[@aimannorzahariwod]

I don't get the controversy to begin with... I feel like the blame is on the idiots who expected anything significant even AFTER a delay has been announced/confirmed.

[@Nic-xr1og]

“On ThE iDiOtS…” CA literally told us we would be seeing xyz in September but never showed it. YOU are an idiot for calling other people idiots for being let down.

[@Nyx_2142]

@@Nic-xr1og Cope harder.

[@Pappamooseman]

With all fondness: saying that single missile weapons being shotguns not making sense does out you as city boy. Slugs are a very common shotgun load type.

[@LordGame2222]

16:52 despite the way the roster reveal is worded, I'm pretty sure that the Astromancer at least gets Yang - maybe Yin, too. Compare the character artwork to the in-game models we saw casting spells in the latest trailer - there's an Astromancer (in orange instead of blue) casting the wind cyclone thing that comes with the lore of Yang. If Astromancers are the "approved" magicians of Cathay, why shouldn't they learn the lores of Yin and Yang?

[@LordGame2222]

@Cornelia that is indeed how it reads, which is why I said "despite the way the article is worded" There's definitely a guy using the Astromancer character model casting a Yang spell in the most recent trailer.

[@TheRadude]

Not sure about the stance thing. Unless I see an actual formation for it, I think it is more like a "When unit is immobile for over 10 seconds it will get extra melee defense and these stat increases" Hopefully I am wrong

[@ReachStudioPro]

They show the formation in the second trailer.

[@johndane9754]

23:30 You're thinking of the detachments rule from tabletop, where you're attaching half a unit, divided into two halves, and put those halves on the flanks of the parent unit. I can think of three ways that could be implemented. One would be selecting different detachments for units in the unit selection screen. Selecting a unit and attaching half of it to another unit that allows for it. This can be used only twice as the detached unit is half of the original unit, and yes, you should be able to detach a detachment from its parent unit to reform the original unit. Think of the artillery crew to the artillery pieces or attaching command units to other units in the old Dawn of War game. Or how it is right now where it is an abstraction instead of a game mechanic gimmick. Two or four units represent the detachments, while eight to sixteen units represent a regiment in a twenty to forty stack force.

[@janbartos4731]

something tells me, that imperfection of rosters is what they aimed for while creating all the Warhammer 3 factions

[@Muramasa1794]

Happy they brought back the Cathayan Jet from old lore and I feel since the Dragon-blooded Shugengan are all children of the dragon heirs. It would be appropriate and make sense for them to have traits similar to the Dwarfs with the “Ancestral Blood Valaya” or “Ancestral Blood of Grimnir” etc. With Cathay in regards to the Shugengan lords they could “Blood of The Iron Dragon” or “ Blood of the Storm Dragon” traits which provide boosts and perks to the lords. And then eventually when the other two dragons are revealed they would add in their traits for the Dragon-blooded. Why there is no Guandao infantry for Cathay when Clan Eshin has them? Weird hopefully they will come as DLC.

[@TheKnightOfShades]

We will probably get some kind of monk unit down the line who uses a Guandao.

[@Muramasa1794]

@@TheKnightOfShades the Celestial dragon Monk hopefully will come as they are mentioned in lore. However I think they use hand combat.

[@TheKnightOfShades]

@@Muramasa1794 Maybe but Guandao are frequently used in Wushu martial arts, so it would make sense for there at least to be a guandao using variant.

[@inertjohnjunk]

I'm curious, how exactly did you expect Cathay to be like a human version of Elves? I was fully expecting them to be slow, tanky, turning field battles into siege battles with infantry essentially acting as walls. While I can see the resemblance to Dwarfs, i feel like Cathay are going to focus more on competent melee infantry as a damage dealer than Dwarfs. Yes all their ranged options make them strong on the approach, but I feel like they have a little less focus on infantry just existing as line-holders than Dwarfs. I'm personally expecting them to be very strong in the melee grind. Especially with Sky-Lanterns and Sky-Junks harassing the enemy from behind, and their "digging in" mechanic.

[@dmitriyk.2890]

I was waiting for yours. As for the LLs, I presume either they cannot cast in dragon form or the form itself is timed (i.e. you turn back after some time and the form is on cooldown).

[@samuelkatz1124]

I do like the roster - a bit more ranged focused than I thought. Seems like if anything, ambushes and magic are going to be their weakness. Depending on the radius of these Yin and Yang bonuses, a vortex or cone spell at the right place could be a game over. Imagine chain lighting over some tightly packed Cathayan army. And some kind of unit spawning ability would be a nightmare. Spamming menace below on Cathay....

[@williamking1081]

oh the horror

[@totalwardad]

I imagine that the Monkey King will bring more melee monster units. And the potential for Warrior Monks could add more too.

[@bojidardzikov7271]

I actually want Tzarina Katarin to be able to summon a snow storm that covers the entire battlefield giving Kislev a buff.

[@DontKnow-hr5my]

I just WISH they'd finally add a button for flying units to fight on the ground (like Dragons) so they are not THAT BIG of a Target. Or a flying Lord like Morathi that is completely unprotected in the air but can't land. It is such a huge oversight

[@Daiciyomon_4594]

If they accept Cobol Yu's Cathay unit, maybe more than CA and GW's artical of their own Cathay unit.

[@20storiesunder]

I absolutely love this roster.

[@Polex411]

actually they pointed out in the beginning that that they are not shot guns but blunder busters.

[@oldman747]

this sounds like my kinda army: cover your arty with melee screen, and dunk the enemy army. very dwarvish.

[@Quintus_Fontane]

I cannot *WAIT* to play as Cathay in 3, but man... I reckon it's a safe bet to say they're going to be tremendously OP at launch, and probably when 1 and 2 are integrated. They seem to do everything the dawi do, but kinda better, and also have way more options than the dwarfs do with cav and constructs and dragons and magic. Again, this whole faction is really well done, my hat's off to CA and GW, and I really look forward to playing them first when 3 launches, but my inner dawi longbeard is already grumbling in barely suppressed envy.

[@SwineofWar]

Thanks for the vid sotek. Maybe you can convince Nathan at great book of grudges his claims that cathay are guaranteed OP are just ridiculous.

[@kronanthekonqueror2979]

Definitely here for this. Fuck yeah

[@YinYangTheWanderer]

I hope that you tell Nathan how Cathay is not overpowered or Mary Sue he's been fairly negative about them lately

[@rocketroux5838]

He's been very annoying about it.

[@YinYangTheWanderer]

@@rocketroux5838 I wouldn't say annoying but very disheartening. I mean they're still asymmetrical as any other race. No monstrous infantry no monstrous cav only actual monsters are their LLs no anti infantry no mid range AP unless crossbows are AP now and they're about as mobile as a roman legion with no auxiliaries. They play exactly to a macro intensive style but their harmony mechanic leaves them wide open to devastating AoE attacks. People got to quit making every new race or dlc the reason their preferred race sucks now.

[@brooky4834]

My favourite two factions from previous games are empire & HE. I like the comparatively conventional battle tactics so I think I'm going to play Cathay first.

[@laneboven3288]

I wonder if the golem will be recruited from a rite like queen bess except you can have more than one at a time.

[@KnightofGascogne]

So, basically, Cathay will do great against Tzeench, but Khorne will eat them for breakfast - with hot chili sauce ofc.

[@d.4784]

I think their imobility is supposed to underline their role as defenders (big wall ect). It would be nice to finally see something about sieges 😅

[@nasir6r996]

Talking about how Ying and Yang works, I can already smell the cheese, which will attract Legendoftotalwar Which is nice, I think

[@RevocerGM]

I'm not sure - my take on it was that they are trying to encrouage balanced armies more than anything. 'Master of the Elemental winds' however, that screams of stackable buffs to me

[@RevocerGM]

@Byner Acct. very true, i shouln't doubt

[@shadearca]

If ranged is as strong as it is in WH2 you can already see checkerboard formation with just 2 peasant spearmen units and full jade crossbowmen. 8-10 casters 10-12 celestial dragon guard crossbowmen 0-2 rocket batteries is also another possible one, like the plague priest/weapons team skaven army.

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

I wonder if that tiger on the back of the alchemists cape is an indication of a future monster for Cathay. Also no assassins in the roster either which is odd given Clan Eshin lore. Can’t wait to get all the rest of the monsters and constructs.

[@derekfrost7751]

Clan eshin go to nippon, not cathay i think

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

@@derekfrost7751 It’s both

[@williamking1081]

@@GlamdringandOrcrist not really, Nippon was the one with Ninjas, but I won't be surprise if they learned how to fight with martial arts form Cathay

[@GlamdringandOrcrist]

@@williamking1081 You’re misunderstanding. It’s been stated very blatantly that Clan Eshin learned the majority of its arts and style from both nations. Technically speaking we have never heard of any units at all from Nippon, it’s just assumed they have ninjas and samurai cuz it’s Japan.

[@ernestoa.jimenez3206]

In mother Kislev, the land owns you.

[@anthonydouglas8060]

Woo Hoo where finally done with cathay!

[@wdh199821]

I love this roster, but it makes me wonder if they were so focused on making Cathay from the ground up that it diverted attention from Kislev. This roster just feels like it has a whole lot more cohesion. Meanwhile I’m still wondering why there aren’t any Orthodoxy units for Kislev, and the lack of appropriate mount options for its characters. I don’t know. Maybe I’m crazy.

[@marianofernandez6470]

Ranged cavalry is for the Mongols and other barbarians. Han Chinese would have been like Bretonnia in that aspect.

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

I think, that this video is a little bit quiet. I really had to turn up my headphones compared to other YT videos

[@TheAshHeritor]

Solid roster. Better than Khorne or Kislev, in my opinion. Khorne's was fine, mind you, but I felt Kislev was lacking a bit. Still excited for the game, I'm just holding out on what kind of siege rework they add in before I buy anything. Because if they don't fix that, I will wait until it's on sale sometime in the distant future, after the GCCM map crew have their way with it.

[@TheAlexkon3]

The Shugengan are described as the offspring of the Dragons thats one of the those Lore questions I really wanna know more about. Does this line mean they are half human/Dragon hybrids so that means that the Dragons keep human consorts? I asked Andy Hall about it on Twitter hope I get an answer soon, lol.

[@nathanielclaw2841]

"They exist due to the nature of the dragon siblings " Translation: they fuck.

[@Muramasa1794]

It means Miao Ying and her siblings have been getting busy with human subjects lol

[@animemonsterx]

So, Miao Yng is going to have a doomstack of Terracota Warriors(a bunch of super powerful melee single units, with a lord with lore of life that give a debuff in combat, this is gonna be fun), gotcha Edit - Also Cathay sounds like dwarfs, but better and with REAL magic

[@tmirred1945]

I like that its human focused, but I kinda expected Monsterous Infantry Terracotta Constructs

[@elric7371]

Wasn't interested in Cathay but i do like their roster alot. Might be First play through.

[@griffinbryant5016]

Momma's Boy Daddy's Girl coop campaign team up 💪

[@nagashtheundyingking4404]

huh gotta say i personally don't really dig the china estetic all that much just not my cup of tea but cathay looks so cool they are probably gonna be my game 3 first playthough think that now when the roster reveal is out Tzeentch is very close

[@hades_deathgod9496]

Seems like Cathay is just the empire but China, rather than dwarves, but human, the unit’s are almost 1:1 with the empire

[@ankatavaska]

So Cathay get their flying lightbulbs while glorious dawi don't get Thunderbarges? That's a grudgin'

[@jackburton-u7f]

I thought Cathay mages were warrior/wizards. I thought I read that somewhere.

[@brettnelson9363]

Arcane conduit?

[@RawCauliflower]

There are so many people acting hysterical about Cathay being overpowered. These people have clearly not watched any multiplayer matches, and seen what is considered meta and what is not (no offense, GreatBookofGrudges). Anyway, Cathay has quite diverse ranged options, both overhead shooting archers and straight line firing AP gunners, although armour + stand-and-shoot units is a bad combination. Unless the grand cannon is more dwarf cannon than mortar, then they are going to be hit hard in an artillery duel with dwarfs and empire. Their infantry is more elite than Empire, but they are more focused on defense with none of them matching the offensiveness (or at least more cost-effective offensiveness) of greatsword units. Otherwise they don't seem to have any mobile skirmishers, the sky lantern does not count, or anti-large cavarly which are really good in the meta. Finally I just don't see the terracotta sentinel being very good unless it has anti-large, note that we have not seen it fight against a large foe yet, because otherwise it will suffer from the heirotitan problem. Anyway I think the roster is still solid, although their gameplay will be limited until more DLC comes out. I would like to see mounted polearm-wielding monks who can dish out anti-large while on horseback, or large quilin as an AP and AL monstrous cavarly option.

[@DaThingOnTheDoorstep]

Mostly, I'd say it's just sinophobia or plain old racism to be blunt. In their mind, anything positive CA or GW says is immediately trying to "pander" to China, the CCP, Chinese players or whatever combination they can come up with. It's bad because China = bad. Of course the articles talking about the units is going to fluff them up a bit regardless of faction or do they expect the article to just say that no, actually this unit is pretty trash in practice and there are more cost effective choices in the roster. I mean, I fully expect the dirigibles to be pretty meh and just a gold sink, but the article's not going to say that now is it?

[@calebbarnhouse496]

lol, acting like great swords are even somewhat effective

[@RawCauliflower]

@@calebbarnhouse496 I know they are not that great, I was just using them as a comparison.

[@ЭйнСоф-ш6х]

Most people rate faction strengths based off campaign though. And in campaign even on Normal difficulty AI plays wery differently from human players, so heavily ranged heavily artillery based builds without much mobility are more then effective. Also, there always will be buffs and faction mechanics, which i'm more then certain will be much more OP for game-3 factions in general, and for Cathay in paticular. Also, let's not forget about doomstacking and one-man-army lords/lords spam. I love and respect MP and MP community but on the scale of campaign balancing MP-like situations are nearly non-existant to encounter in your typical, day-to-day singleplayer experience of Total War games.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@RawCauliflower that's the thing, the only thing the empire has up on them is a unit that will probably just be on par with there elite infantry, even if it is more geared towards anti large, it should do fine against melee infantry as it's described

[@carter342000]

I bet their first DLC will be something like the Monkey King, who brings in a whole load of animal and mystical units. Likely with a Hero or Lord who has access to lore of life. All of the 'Good' factions have the option to have healing in some form in every army. Not having it here seems out of place.

[@singularleaf3895]

Dwarves? And Kislev seemed to lack healing on their roster. Not every "good" faction needs mass healing.

[@singularleaf3895]

@@XeroKarma I know I was being an asshole, but he did say have an option, not magic, and I hope to fucking god Kislev doesn't, not every faction needs healing. It's the most annoying stupid spells, imo the lore of life should only have 1 healing spell not two. They are the reason Lore of Life and Vampires are considered the two best lores.

[@carter342000]

@@singularleaf3895 The Dwarves get iron warden tankards for their heroes and lords. If you run mainly gun line units those are the only ones you really need them for. It’s admittedly very limited, but healing is still there

[@singularleaf3895]

@@carter342000 that's campaign which you can break in a thousand ways, I saw someone make a peasant doomstack. And that's still limited to an extreme degree, much like how Cathay has healing on a LL which I'm fine with. I just don't want Lore of Life literally everywhere.

[@dmitriyk.2890]

@@singularleaf3895 Kislev has a healing bound ability for Patriarchs. Prayer to Salyak (it was shown in exhibition battle).

[@hallo-mt5tx]

the elite crossbows with ap + shields are probably going to be insane and honestly the caster system they have should be a fundamental game mechanic for all races nerf all magic and make it stronger the more casters you have

[@dbehnia2351]

Yes but I imagine they will have to pay a premium for their good archers. Not to mention repeater crossbows have limited range, so it’s not like they can trade with things like waywatchers who would vastly out range and mobility them.

[@Nyx_2142]

Yeah.. nerf notoriously weak magic even more. Great idea.

[@hallo-mt5tx]

@@Nyx_2142 magic is considered the most powerful thing in the entire game idk if we are playing 2 different games

[@theonesithtorulethemall]

I just wont to mention that the cathey lords have a more pale complexion than most vampires in that art

[@perer005]

CA clearly played Slay the Spire! ;)

[@perer005]

@Byner Acct. With the harmony and stance dancing

[@BlinkBoyBrad]

I really hope WH3 actually does something with its multiplayer mode, we need actual matchmaking, its so underutilized.

[@HH-hd7nd]

4:50 Oh please - no more power upgrades for spells. Magic is waaaaaay to strong as it is already - to the point where you simply don't need or even want regular troops on the battlefield anymore and the Lord is soloing 3 or 4 entire enemy armies - or even if you have troops all you do with them is hide them and kill the enemy armies with the lord alone. Stuff like that is not cool, and it is completely agaisnt the idea of a wargame.

[@Valentine_Mehin]

It's possible only with specific lords in a very specific situations, like Baltazar or Isabella. With hero wizards you can do that only in the super late game, when you hired enough of knowledgeable lords and heros to boost your winds reserve (I'm talking about turn 150 or something around that). And it's still will be hard against guns, because it's hard to dodge bullets, so your wizard will inevitably take damage.

[@HH-hd7nd]

@@Valentine_Mehin There's way more lords you can use to wipe out entire armies, not just Baltazar and Isabella. Have a look at LegendofTotalWar' channel and you'll find a good amount of videos where he wipes out multiple stacks with just a caster lord - and a good amount of different lords as well from all different kind of factions. Magic as is is already riduculously overpowered.

[@Valentine_Mehin]

​@@HH-hd7nd Yeah, I know him. And I know that in most of his videos where he uses magic to wipe out armies he either has a doomstack armie, like treemans, or it's a siege battle. WIth super rare exceptions, when he hides his units and just uses wizard. But in all this situations - it'a a late game. You need a ton of lords and heroes to play that way. Also, you need to consider enemies army composition: if they have a lot of guns or strong flying units - you can't really use your wizard. You're missing so many little things that actually make this play style viable(or not). And yeah, I know there's more lords that can do this. I just gave an example of wizards with cheap magic.

[@Valentine_Mehin]

Also worth noting that in multiplayer the magic is not that strong and people tend to use buff/debuff spells much more often than damaging ones. So it might be interesting to see how all this changes work out in multiplayer.

[@HH-hd7nd]

@@Valentine_Mehin Of course you can still do that when going up against missile units - and flyers are completely irrelevant unless we're talking about an AI phoenix or dragon spam which is rare. You also overestimate the amount of lords/heroes required. The only section where you can't do that stuff is in early campaign. It's possible to do that kind of stuff with most caster lords btw, not even limited to legendary lords (yeah I know its harder with regular lords, but it still can be done). Magic in Multiplayer is still too strong, even though it's less of an issue since you don't have to deal with high tier armies and endless winds of magic all the time.

[@TheRadude]

While the roster is nice, I wish we knew about it earlier. During TWW2 marketing didn't CA give us the roster a day or a week after the first in-engine trailer of said race? Or am I forgetting something?

[@derekfrost7751]

Yeah but thisare 6 races not 4

[@ikitclaw4852]

@@derekfrost7751 7 actually, chaos undivided will be a thing as well, so it's almost double the races from the other Warhammer games to begin with

[@derekfrost7751]

@@ikitclaw4852 exactly, i dont know why people are so mad with the time they are taking, the game will be release next year and they want all the info of factions and rosters in 2 weeks, and what we will do in the 3 months left?

[@ikitclaw4852]

@@derekfrost7751 find other stuff to complain about... there is always need for complain, it's almost like CA are the Skaven and the community are the Dwarfs ^^

[@kenobijursthebadass5233]

Am i the only one who finds it odd that the storm dragon has lore of life and not heavens

[@jdurthu4304]

Idn, Cathay sounds a little bit like they wanted to add something reallly good from amny factions and than make it Chinese. We have elite, slow devensive infantry and flying misile machines from dwarvs, we have artilery and hurricanum taken straight out of The Empire just with oxen, we have TK like construct, we have jezails, we have DE crossbows, we have pegasus knights. I do not say those ideas do not work. Besides maybe war compas and jezzails all of those units look like they 100% fit the faction before we start thinking about the other factions equivalents they all seem fitting. But honestly nothing we have seen here is really new in function. I wonder if this is because we just have so much in this game now, or we just do not have that much "really new" here really. Still, in the vacume this is for sure 100% the best roster out of the 3 revealed. It is the most diverse and interesting. So in base warhammer 3 they for sure will be unique. I just wonder how much will thiss stay true after imortal empires drop

[@dreamwar1586]

Yes, raping established lore by making dragons have human babies.

[@niilofriden4465]

.

[@varanaut1308]

Zh = j

[@jennifers3706]

First?

[@nosuitsgiven]

You need to lay off the soy or talk louder, thanks,

[@sXing89]

Having multiple wizards is not pointless. While it is redundant the extra Arcane Conduits are super strong