EXPANSION VESSEL INSTALL - Plumbing Tips

This video will tell you how to install an expansion vessel on a pressurised heating system. It doesn't tell you the principles of a heating system though. Just how to install one.
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[@markmccall6273]

Homeowner question. When pressure gauge is low (or zero) on the expansion vessel, how do you know when to use the schrader valve (and pump), or the filling loop taps?

[@plumberparts]

Hi Mark, open the schraeder and quickly press to make sure there's compressed air. If nothing comes out (or even worse water) call your local engineer. If all is well, use your filling loop to top up the pressure and make sure you add inhibitor afterwards! If you don't already, please follow me on Instagram here: www.plumberparts.co.uk/social.php?social=Instagram FANKS!

[@markmccall6273]

Gotcha. But what pressure should the air be anyway? I may have released too much air. Thanks.

[@mrblack61]

Just fitted an expansion tank to my sealed system and I now have stable pressures! Always check in on your channel before I get mi hands dirty. Knowledge and lulz! Whats not to like!! Cheers bud 8)

[@johnnee51]

Great video,makes it look so easy.

[@plumberparts]

*Links to the tools I use everyday here:* www.amazon.co.uk/shop/plumberparts Plus, follow my *Vlog “TimesWithJames”:* kzbin.info

[@paulmathias1908]

Great video, thank you.

[@stevencline274]

This is a great help. I have a couple questions regarding expansion tanks: 1) How do you know when/if an exp tank needs to be replaced? 2) How often should they need replacement? 3) Is replacing an existing tank something a mechanically-minded indiv can handle? Thanks again...you have a great and helpful channel!

[@mibutties]

You’re a brave man drilling directly above a consumer unit

[@Duckfit]

I thought that

[@ddrl46]

That is a very nice looking installation.

[@jeffking722]

Hey mate, love your videos; they are so helpful. So this is a thank you for all the help you’ve given me and my wife’s well impressed too, trouble is she’s lining up more and more jobs for me! I also hear you are a Jazz fan, what sort of stuff do you like? Jeff

[@bertybollocks]

Haha good vid Again love watching these , u would be a laugh to work with keep up the good work and keep posting these vids much appreciated :)

[@birdwing98]

Some tanks experience dripping or jets of water when the diaphragm fails. I would not mount a "dripping/wet tank" above the electrical components on the wall, unless there was no other choice. Q: Do you earn more if you can route the pipe using more elbows?

[@ljones396]

Another interesting vid! Have no intention of fitting one - but had to watch it anyway, ha! And if it's any consolation - I've heard much worse singing! Keep us posted! Stay classy!

[@Harmonical1]

James - I have an awful problem with our central heating. Ariston System Boiler failed and Ariston engineer repressurized the expansion vessel to 1 bar. Started working again but way below par - radiators cool, DIFFERENT ones completely cold - NOT always the same ones. Had system power flushed and all the water was absolutely clean and clear - looked okay to drink! The rads were even cooler and worse after the power flush. Hot water has always been fine. I suspect air is getting into the system - all rads bled but the WATER in some seems like soda water and fizzes a bit - I haven't drunk it. I think that it's the boiler - either the pump not running properly or could air be getting into the system? Ariston engineer refused to accept that it's their boiler - of course it's still under the Ariston 'Guarantee'! Would really welcome your unbiased view. Cheers.

[@shahirhunaina8348]

Many thanks for the entertaining/informative video. I have a qualified Gas safe plumber doing the work for me, but it is nice to know what to expect. Keep singing & be happy!

[@plumberparts]

+Shahir Hunaina No worries!

[@powergemelectrical]

Very informative video but we didn’t cover any of how the boiler pressure vessel is disconnected. Or do we just leave it in there as obsolete? Thanks

[@bythesea2784]

Great video kept up the good work, I need to ask you this my bleed valve has broke on the head of the sqaue and I need to replace it with a new one what can I do, I like to kept the radiator it's working find help.

[@nellysummer5039]

Nice pipes man!

[@AndrewBristol]

Brilliant compilation of video's, I watched several just out of interest... My question, I have a gravity fed system with a Albion super duty 45ltr tank, Since bathroom refit and going to a single mixer tap we have very very low water pressure on my hot tap in the bathroom but fine downstairs (kitchen tap) now I know downstairs is lower and gravity etc, but I think the problem lays with the bathroom tap and its tiny little pipes that go to the tap from the 15mm feed pipe approx 30cm away from the tap itself. Is there anyway I can boost the pressure of the bathroom tap by fitting an expansion vessel of some kind into the hot water feed side of the tank ? OR would cost and effectiveness say its better to change sink and go back to two individual taps (old school set up). Thanks

[@braddaavfc]

Another great video James, the singing isn't that bad lol 'I see your true colours' hold tight haha

[@nigelmitchell351]

Do you need to allow water up to the connection with the expansion vessel.? Many thanks for posting, this looks a simpler job than replacing the one in my WB Greenstar junior.

[@freakazomb]

Love your videos

[@plumberparts]

+Mark Curry Cheers!

[@tellylgeorge]

Hi James. Love the video. Really helpful. Can I ask though. Have you fitted many EV’s to hollow plasterboard walls and if so what fixings do you use please? Mine have worked loose thanks to the contractors using plain rawl plugs believe it or not. I’ve put a few TVs on the wall using snap toggle fixings and hollow wall anchors so was thinking they will work ok. Just wondering what your thoughts are.

[@addz91]

Top video fella! What make of boiler is that?

[@endless1290]

HI I have a question. I have one of these on a unvented direct water tank. Where would you measure the water pressure to set the expansion vessel pressure. On the rising mains as it comes into the building, or after the inlet group valve where it connects to the tank ? As the PRV is set to 3bar, wouldn't you just set the expansion vessel to 3bar as well ?

[@nickburrows3520]

i have a problem with my expansion tank on a bosch worcester 24. If i fit an external tank do i need to isolate or disconnect the old one if so what should i do?

[@joshplayspoor2908]

next time you get a job like this is there any chance you can show us how to bung the expansion vessel that is already in the boiler if it has failed thanks !

[@royman8889]

Hi James, you've kept me awake in the early hours of the night now just going through all your very funny and top advise videos (my sense of humor..) So Hold Tight!... I need your expert advise please :) I'm looking to upgrade my 4 bed home to a sealed system from a conventional low pressure header system which is very poor on head pressure. My biggest question amongst many I have is that my water main feed from the meter to the 1st floor airing cupboard is only a 15mm supply. If I fit a sealed unit, would there be an issue with water flow when say a shower is used or running a bath as the 15mm pipe will effectively be supplying both hot and cold at the same time. The question you're gonna ask me is whats my mains incoming pressure is?.. Don't know yet (off to screwfix for a pressure gauge), but if it's limited to 3bar on the system, would this be ok if its around that value? (I sense more questions to follow..lol) SUPERB videos by the way, I've learnt so much watching them, and very sound advise gained from the norm. I'm hoping to install everything and getting it signed off afterwards. Just a pain working what floorboards to rip up to install this..Deep joy! Many thanks in advance Roy

[@roblawrence6884]

ANOTHER wicked Vid! Any new vid coming up on going from a lead pipe to copper (leadlock)?? WE ARE SPARTAAAAA

[@mick.Walker]

Nice video, should they always be on the return! or is that just recommended, thanks fella

[@rwgasservices6764]

I might have to fit an external expansion vessel on a Combi system soon but on the return pipe where I would normally fit it there is no room or very little to T off etc but there is plenty room on the flow pipe.Is it OK to put it on the flow instead of return without damaging the system?

[@anz3786]

Is it possible to fit an expansion tank outside of combi boiler as old one is leaking & to difficult to remove n costly .thnnx

[@daviddaywalker3844]

How do you work out the size of the expansion vessel ? every system different. 50 rad system what size vessel. ?

[@davidrichardson446]

Could you us JS speed fit push-fit joints here instead of soldered elbows as its some distance from the boiler

[@valentinmirauta7059]

Hello Can you do a video how you size up expansion vessels? Thanks

[@mr.dahliaking.202]

in Europe we don't use a cooper pipes anymore (the old soviet technology), we are using the plastic-rubber mixed pipes, that needs just a bit of heat to weld together and no need any things like fire torch and solder, and no risk of fire!

[@leexgx]

i personally would not have the vessel close to the sunny boy solar inverter (that is around £300-£1000 to replace) even though it is IP65 or should be any way, interesting video of how an Expansion Vessel works

[@barrysdigitallife9156]

Does the expansion tank fill with water or is it just pressurized air. We have had one fitted and seem to be having issues with it losing pressure

[@19501960]

i have a faulty zimlet expansion tank, it need replacing, can i just close the HW stopclock which is on the same feed and swap out the unit rather than drain down the entire system ? thanks

[@luloup78able]

I had to have the external expansion tank changed last Christmas because it failed and sprayed water everywhere, now the new one is dripping, Is this likely to be sinister or are they just poorly made? It''s a Varem. Trying to avoid a call out charge because it's screwed on too tight for me to budge.

[@stevieg7403]

When you test the expansion vessel to see if it’s split, is there a lot of water that would come out of the valve or just some moisture. My system is bubbling like mad when the heating pump kicks in, I don’t have any other leaks. Please help

[@reshlanda1964]

Hi guys, I have a question do you need to install an expansion vessel on the heating side of a unvented system, as I know the boiler has a expansion vessel inside it? The system has 8 zone (underfloor heating), and 5 radiators on the first floor boiler is a Vaillant 637?

[@triumphstag1234]

I have a white colour varem extravarem 12 ltr, on it it says max 6 bar, then a sign showing 3.6 bar, what should I pump the pressure to, at the moment it is zero

[@lgmckenna1066]

Tip. Bend the pipe first all in 1 then mark the wall for clips. Fits perfect, looks great, saves time, elbows, etc and nothing to leak

[@user-yw6qb9tt7t]

There is about 5 bends in that new 15mm. You are saying bend them all or have i misunderstood? If so best locate expansion last of all and make bend into that an elbow joint or you would be having fun hitting thr nail on the head

[@milzeh]

Best plumber in the UK.

[@andideda7358]

Hi James, thanks for the great videos. Need a bit of advice please from you or any other contributors here.. Is there a way around it to pressurise a boiler or sealed system when the mains pressure is low like one bar..? thanks man

[@daviddixey4992]

Rothenberger sell a testing pump in which you can manually lever water into a system, it has a tray that you fill with water and you're away. Good luck!

[@janesouth5649]

Cute whistling

[@jhami041]

hi i have a varem 100 litre expansion vessel. why has it got two connection fittings 15mm on top and 28mm on bottom. thanks for the great videos so far

[@plumberparts]

Pop us over a picture via out website please!!!!

[@marianne1532]

Hi, I have to bleed several rads daily since putting new joints and new rads in rooms. Could the expansion tank be full of air and how do I bleed please?

[@DK45SW]

Ending for next weeks show: "This is bat country" or "How much for the ape". BIG LOVE! Hold tight!

[@imaaplumbing9417]

Hi mate, i have water hammer , is it alowed to fit one into the hot water pipe outlet ?? to reduce the hammering . Cheers

[@Golo1949]

You can get small versions designed to stop water hammer, check merchants.

[@liljasere]

Just a heads up mate, I know you were only replacing what was there but because of the large amount of water in oil boilers the expansion vessel is very undersized (why the one in the video went most probably) in every instance we have installed one we needed to add an additional one on the the system, It's a pain in the arse but when I went to grant I asked why and they told me they just cant physically fit a big enough one in there

[@MajorVendetta]

When that tank goes and fills up that'll be a git to get down but then again if its a plasterboard wall probably fall off anyway ;-)

[@swedishkev]

Hi there, Im hoping you would reply to me because ,Two other channels have not. I have a heat pump , and the hot water pipe going outside from the heat pump to the spinning fan outside the house was leaking, I noticed that the gauge connected to the Red Expansion tank ,kept dropping from 1 bar to o.bar, I kept filling up with water, Anyhow I noticed the leak outside. So I got a Heat pump guy to come by and change the pipe because it required a special sqeezing tool. to reconnect the new pipe. Only took an hour. I noticed that the pressure was still dropping from 1-bar ,Hovering around o,5 bar and even lower to almost 0-bar, and this is even more so in the evening when it gets really cold, Even goes minus 3 or 5 just now and in the day 5 or 5 degrees just now. The pressure goes up towards 1-bar again and fluctuates there and down to 0,5 bar . And stays there for most of the day, while it is warmer in the day. I have pumped up the tank to 1,5 bar . I used a little 12v pump for car tyres. The gauge on the 12v pump goes to 1.5 bar , but the gauge on the Expansion tank does not go up at the same time. Is this normal . Also I have checked no water in the expansion tank, It seems fine ,Hollow to tap to. What can cause the Gauge to go up and down .Before the pipe failed , The gauge was always stable on 1-bar most of the time. I do not think there is any leaks in the heated floors, that I can see, and surely the gauge would not go up and down. Appreciate some tips to whats going on. P:S the heat pump , seems to be working properly, and I have hot water. Just the gauge problem that means something is not right somewhere.

[@DJJimCowley]

nice n neat

[@plumberparts]

+DJJimCowley Thanksyou sir!

[@danielshirley294]

Hi Jambo, Love the vids. One question, if your old expansion vessel is KAPUT, but because you've got a cheap Ravensh*t boiler and it's right at the back where you can't reach it, do you need to remove it or can you just isolate the little bleeder and install and external one? FANKS!! PS - I can't even get to the bleedin' schrader valve. To say it's badly designed would be an understatement.

[@BV512]

Vokera?

[@jamiescott1071]

I've had to replace my 10ltr expansion vessel in Worcester 240. As an old boiler they are obsolete so got a 12 ltr reflex from screw fix. I've fitted it external to the boiler as it won't fit but piping it via the old vessels original connection on the boiler flow. does it have to be in a certain position like below the boiler and I'm having issues with the pressure, keep rising quickly and tripping the overheat thermostat. Cheers

[@plumberparts]

+Jamie scott Anywhere on the system, providing it cannot be isolated from the system with a valve. Expansion is not optional!

[@shaun7383]

really useful video. fitted my 1st one yesterday with the gaffa stood over my shoulder watching. joys of being an appreciate. hold tight..

[@plumberparts]

Top work mate!

[@amirhussain1449]

Cool guy

[@Stevebriggs293]

You could end your videos same way I end mine, although you may find the markets and technical analysis boring so you may not be able to endure watching one through to the end. I'm a fellow tradesmen, enjoy your videos, good stuff.

[@TippTopp81]

15mm to E.V is ok but 22mm right through is more effective for expansion,this is why its a 3/4 thread

[@user-yw6qb9tt7t]

Mine has 22mm

[@leedelph]

Hi. does it matter about the air trapped in the pipe going to the Expansion Vessel ?

[@plumberparts]

+John Lee Not really. Should be fine! Please sub >> kzbin.info

[@Towerwatson525]

Good video. I have a Santon (Heatrae Sadia) premier cylinder and the vessel it came with needed replacing. Aquasytems was the manufacturer, code ARB 24, 3.5 BAR- I Typed that into google and loads came up at £30-£50 with that code, but all had only 3 bar or 3.5 bar that was all 5cm longer than my original vessel, and i had a very tight fitting area. I rang Santon, they gave me the part number and I searched google with that. £298 was the cheapest I could find!!! What a complete scam, the manufacturers get Aquasyeytems to make a 24-lt vessel that is 5 cm shorter than their off the shelf 24 lt vessel so they can charge £297 for a £30 dedicated 'spare part' if anyone goes through the cylinder manufacture. I thought sod that, I will take 5 cm of the pipework and buy from ebay and so I again searched for the aquasystems 24 arb with 3.5 bar and noticed all the standard 24 lt vessels from aquasytems only had 10bar test pressure mine had 14.4 bar. So I then searched "24arb 14.4 test bar" and one seller on eBay had them for £31.00. They are not standard off the shelf aquasystems replacement vessles, so he must have bought a job lot from somewhere??? The lesson, never buy replacement vessels from cylinder manufactures. One more point ,on newer vessels you can buy a replacement EPDM Membrane and simply change the burst one over for a new one rather than buying a new vessel.

[@indiawest2025]

Top man..

[@mr.dahliaking.202]

it is so easier to use plastic-rubber mixed pipes, than a heavy cooper pipes, you should try to use these plastic pipes.

[@koalaaustralska1565]

very pro

[@plumberparts]

Cheers!

[@mindaugasvaskevicius1818]

Common mistake: expansion tank lines do not have air bleeding/purging method. Extra air in my opinion is not desired. Open loop expansion vessel would be mounted that way, not closed system.

[@martingodden4943]

Getting a mixed signal from another plumber saying it has to be 22mm pipe going into the expansion vessel, but seen at least 3 people use 15mm including yourself. Please help or does it even matter?

[@MsBigjmk]

New engineer need the change a expansion vessel on old combination with is located at back of boiler which is more or less impossible to get to been told I can fit an external one is this what I would do cheers

[@GamerLAD88]

Yes, it would be much cheaper for an engineer to fit an external one than to atrip down your boiler and fit a replacement. Just realised your post was 4 years old :(

[@samwab]

Could there be trapped air in the expansion tank (on the water side) when the system is refilled? Could this ever cause a problem?

[@plumberparts]

+samwab Not usually

[@samwab]

Not usually as in it doesn't happen, or as in it doesn't cause problems?

[@chancewatkins5071]

Good vid. Thanks so much for sharing man; Jesus Christ Bless you! :)

[@plumberparts]

Joseph Watkins No worries!

[@GETTHEDEUCE]

I laid mine on it's side is that OK or will it wear quicker

[@DJJimCowley]

no problem

[@jwvgoethe77]

So when you turn on the heating system, how does the air in the pipe leading up to the expansion tank, get expelled from the pipe?

[@marionoshea545]

jwvgoethe77 It doesn't need to it just becomes part of the expansion system

[@rubenvaneupen7327]

How to get the air out?

[@woodbine66]

Great video, below average singing. Many thanks. Surprised you didn't but four 90 degree bends in that 15 milli pipe with your bender instead of solder elbows. LOL

[@16vastraturbo]

Do these tanks come pre pressurised?

[@user-yw6qb9tt7t]

Yes. The one installed here is 1.5 bar which is standard as that is what the pressure in the whole central heating and boiler system is usually set to

[@jamief1979]

another gud video next u could end it with booyakabopbop hold tight

[@mrwintski]

End the next one with a rap........ Keep up the good work!

[@bibzo1]

duse it have to be near the boiler

[@davidgough2324]

James! when would you need to add an anti gravity loop on a pressurisation unit? Please advise, i'm very confused. HT

[@TheDickPuller]

Jaz auld son, tell yer missus I'll see her round the back of Asda on Friday as normal tell her to wear the black fishnets again & remember the KY gel. There's a good chap.

[@mr_nice.]

I'll never understand why some plumbers choose the hard over the easy way!

[@mikef6816]

Why don't u use triflow fittings much easier

[@badger3352]

Should never reduce the size should be 3/4 to expansion. Also expansion should be fit were it can be vent so it will fill with water rather than air because the system pressure will go down as the air is eventually dissolved into the water and have to be topped up again?

[@michaeljohnson1006]

Get some Bosch multi construction drill bits no more noisy hammer drill :-)

[@plumberparts]

Ha! Got ya! SUBSCRIBE! ➡️👉 kzbin.info 👈⬅️ IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY! 😎

[@XXXREMIX]

my vessel expands , bet u heard em all lol

[@mikecrippsuk]

Nice video. But not one pulled bend? All fittings. Yuk! Lol

[@plumberparts]

+mike cripps Its for benders mate!

[@sambam6199]

😄

[@geoffsimms3013]

Try and keep your pipe work away from your electrical boxes if you can.

[@yensabi]

The pipe feeding the EV should be the same size as the one your tee ing off from , in this case 22 mm otherwise your will put the vessel under undue stress and it will prematurely fail.....just saying......!

[@acestu]

Why don't you run the pipework over all the electrics, that way if you get a leak it will do an excellent job of destroying them.

[@plumberparts]

The world for you is perfect. Have a GREAT day!

[@acestu]

Not Perfect merely Sensible Grasshopper !

[@mattwigg2947]

Cant live your life & work on IF & WHEN, it may leak, it may never leak.....can’t avoid everything just incase. Like saying what if a boiler leaks internally and takes out its own pcb, do we put the boiler electrics external just incase 😐

[@tanyano9]

Why put it on the return....?

[@dodger6376]

Surely installing the vessel above Electrics isn't good practice (and shouldn't be promoted) what happens if Com joint lets by! Also, why didn't you just Bend your pipework and reduce the potential of leaks!

[@79Xile]

Pipework should be 150mm from them electrics.

[@londontrada]

That's only for gas pipework.

[@djGreenALERT]

In my experience, a plumber that hums or sings whilst he is working usually means he is going to charge you the planet to fix anything! Even AFTER the agreed price. Hope you ain't like that :)

[@tomg3131]

djGreenALERT or maybe the guy like his job

[@benvolio1987]

*novice* surely that installation means the pipework and expansion tank are full of air when installed.... where does that air escape to when the system is filled?

[@benvolio1987]

***** sorry - I was calling ME a novice for asking a silly question - wasn't insulting you!! thanks for the response.

[@jeroenvanderholst]

Benvolio Foster In my opinion you are right. Expansion tanks shouldn't be fitted upside down. Air will get trapped in and over time will dissolve in the system water. This dissolved air can turn up elsewhere in the system when it is heated up (Henry's law) and will cause noise and corrosion in the system.

[@brettward5144]

Why go to all the extra work of installing this external vessel when all you had to do was replace the one on the boiler, which is clearly visible at the front of the Worcester. I can understand it when the vessel is at the back and you have to take the boiler of the wall.

[@plumberparts]

Because, Grant's (which are the manufacturer in this case) do not produce a boiler that has an adequate expansion vessel for the whole heating syste...only for the boiler (which is a bit poo) so we had to add a larger one to accomodate the expansion of the radiators and system....hope that helps (always check to make sure the boiler expansion is adequate)

[@Cumbriahandyman]

Whistling not much better ;o)

[@eamoncrosby2368]

Hiya, Is it possible for this Expansion vessel to explode? I want to know as its in an walk in cupboard in my bedroom.. We have problems with low pressure. We had a new boiler installed 20 mths ago. and I had problems with the immersion Heater on and off ever since. Low pressure for nearly 20 months.. So we were told to get new pump. so brought a new one£200. had 3 leaks on cold water tank and pipe work had them fixed had new automation air lock vent. and new Gauge on expansion tank.. I use to fill the tank up too 1.5. But can't now as heating engineer done some thing to tap to turn.. So I am unable to manually put pressure into the system.. What's happening is when I was able to fill the gauge to 1.5 which they told me too and turn off tightly . The pressure is going up to 4+ and then back round down to 0.. Staying at 0 then going anti clock wise to 4 again.. it's see- sawing. Now they tell me I have a faulty gauge. I tap the red tank and get a dead thump sound. as if flat.. They telling me safe to use but need a new vessel.. I was told when they changed the new gauge they may of damaged the tank. I have a leaky valve on the cold water tank.. Its taken 8 different plumbers and 1 heating engineer so far and I am still having problems since last year. any advice please.. thanks..

[@taitlawrence]

the EV is burst that why its going up so high, then your safety control is activating to give the water somewhere to discharge to, usually after 3 bar though, if the 3 bar prv is not returning to it's seating then that's why your pressure keeps dropping back to 0. You need to get a new prv and recharge the EV

[@alanfitzgerald6567]

Why do plumbers insist on plumbing things like pressure vessles over electric boxes?!?

[@TheDickPuller]

OMG!! Why so many Elbows, you've got a bending machine FFS!!

[@bertybollocks]

Haha u obviously no him then

[@user-tr7hp1de8u]

No isolation valve ...🤔

[@Thestevesongs1]

why would you install an expansion vessel above electrics, if the bladder fails and water leaks.....bang.. not good.