Expats Could Pay "34% On Money Transferred Into Thailand"?

[@lordjim3109]

I don`t blame people for being scared. If this really happened, it would be a double whammy for expats. What makes living in Thailand feasible is that the cost of living is roughly 30% less than back home. If that 30% is taken away, then there`s no point in living in Thailand long-term.

[@Trahloc]

He's an American like me. It doesn't matter where we live, we're taxed by the IRS. So we never got that income tax discount to begin with and treaties between countries handle that liability. It's why the advice of hiring a tax agent is really the only thing he can say. Each country is unique and each person's situation might fit a mold... Or it might not. Folks need an expert not a rough one size fits all understanding.

[@NapoleonDynamyte]

No point? Many people live in Thailand for the weather, food, beaches, people, etc. Not just the discount. And if you are taxed, you can claim the foreign tax credit on your home country tax obligations. But it probably won’t even come to that. So just chill out dude!

[@BigBoaby-sg1yo]

@@NapoleonDynamytelol 😂 and your bank account in your home country will be closed down ,as you don’t live in your country of origin 🤷‍♂️

[@gabrielr2374]

Thank you Benjamin for the information. Your explanation was helpful and clear. Sometimes it seems that people are really bored and spreading information without any knowledge on the subject. Thanks again for what you’re doing.

[@michaelsmithy5814]

If the Thai government go down this route of taxing expats it will have serious consequences for the economy of Thailand. It will depend on number of factors. The rate at which the tax is set at and how the Thai banks reaction to money held in deposit accounts that belong to existing expats which would be returned.

[@darrineagle3450]

They need to start ensuring civil rights to the potential taxpayers such as overcharging, property rights, ownership of businesses. I'm sure there's a lot more jim crowish shenanigans blocking the full participation in the nation that a fully participating taxpayer should not have to endure.

[@markgarretson689]

This video was absolutely useless

[@RykerFreegeld]

So basically nobody knows.

[@RykerFreegeld]

@@SeftonHanley Yikes, that sounds like Thailand alright. 😅

[@billytheweasel]

See the DTA for your country, if it has one with Thailand. It knows.

[@RykerFreegeld]

DTA makes no difference if Thailand has decided to tax “ALL global income”, which is what they seem to be saying.

[@billytheweasel]

@@RykerFreegeld So wouldn't unilaterally breaking the DTA involve the US State Department and Dept. of Treasury - at least?

[@RykerFreegeld]

@@billytheweasel Good question. I can't speak for the US, especially since they're obviously a country you don't want to mess with. But my own country has already been breaking the double tax treaty by double+taxing almost everyone (except Chaina of course), including it's own citizens, since 2021.

[@davidheslop2879]

What actually would happen would be a mass exodus of foreigners and then places like Phuket Pattaya koh samui hua hin would then have an oversupply of condos villas.

[@josh3771]

100%. The government floats radical policies on a very regular basis then waters it down to nothing once they acknowledge the catastrophic impact. Even getting expats to file a tax return will lead to a mass exodus and flatten entire local economies. Many of us are happy to pay tax, but we expect some concessions and not being treated like an alien

[@davek1943]

they will be bought up cheaper by russians & chinese who the junta seems to prefer & definitely treat better than us falang

[@Dutchy695]

Great! I can get a bargain on a condo!

[@lezzeppelin2222]

Great poor expats get out of Thailand 🤪

[@commanderbishop]

Already happening - the people with money are existing the Thai stock exchange in mass - over 26% this year and climbing... Chinese are starting to sell stuff like houses and condos in mass but no discount yet as they are not feeling the pain just being proactive... In a year, it's going to get cheaper with a lot of deals for cash buyers - but who wants to pay taxes twice or submit your life to investigation. Not me, so let them pull the money. Thailand will either not enforce or limited enforce the law as is usual practice anyway. Backfire is on the way just like those fancy VISA's they come out with yearly with little to no benefits.

[@jeffreytowson155]

People need to know what they might owe. Absent clear guidelines, people will have to generalize and guess. Going case by case isn’t realistic

[@billytheweasel]

Check to see if your country has DTA with Thailand. It knows.

[@The_Drifter_13]

Even though nobody seems to know what the future holds for taxes, I wouldn’t blame anyone for thinking and musing about it. Potentially this could be the difference between Thailand being a viable retirement destination or not. When there is uncertainty, we have to be prepared for all potential outcomes.

[@Bunta71]

I retired and moved to Chiang Mai. As we were searching for a condo to buy, Thailand decided that a couple that is on a retirement extension, had to have both husbands and wife be 50 years old and have a separate income retirement. Thailand loves creating problems for the hated expats without considering the consequences... After about three weeks and amid the outrage, the genius Thai government announced... " No were just kidding... About five os so years ago maybe longer, the geniuses bantered the same scheme about. !5 years of putting up with shitty treatment, threats and continuous schemes to fleece the terrible expats, I have smashed my rose colored glasses( never had any rose colored glasses) and aam soon moving to the Philippines... not as fancy but immigration is a breeze and we feel welcome there. Thailand has shot themselves in the foot and the rose colored glass wearers are fine with it...

[@lezzeppelin2222]

Thailand hated poor expats 🤪

[@billytheweasel]

Immigration is chaos and confusion and they don't care. Imagine what the Thai Revenue Dept. officer will do to expats. We may go back to the US, but depending on the election results we may follow you to the PI! Jan 1, 2025 is the deadline to escape punitive double taxation mayhem here.

[@Bunta71]

yeah the Philippines is not for everyone, especially when you compare infrastructure to that of Thailand, but there are many other redeeming features...English spoken everywhere, less transactional attitudes with the ladies, I spent 16 years in the Philippines and 15 in Thailand@@billytheweasel

[@ShoelessNomadThailand]

Thank God for Gold, Revolut cards and Wise cards.

[@ShoelessNomadThailand]

@@phild2316 Good man where there's a will is a way. This tax thing is total BS for 99% of retired expats. Double Taxation Treaty saves most of us. #stopscaremongering

[@ShoelessNomadThailand]

@@SeftonHanley Some people just don't understand physical gold or silver. The world's number asset class and real money.

[@baconoverflow4384]

@@ShoelessNomadThailand Never done anything with gold so might be a silly question, but don't you have to provide ID etc when you sell/buy gold in Thailand?

[@ShoelessNomadThailand]

@@baconoverflow4384 Yes I use my wife's ID and she owns it. We never sell gold. We only buy.

[@rob-xb3vp]

Wise cards in Thailand....no chance.

[@PeevyMctweevy]

Here is a fact for any Brit's thinking of retiring to Thailand, you will not receive your annual state pension increase..

[@mlgneo2855]

Do all brits have pension?

[@tg213]

Can you offer some generalizations for some broad categories like social security, IRAs, , military/us government pensions? Under what scenario would they tax that. The complexity of how would they ever do that seems it is far fetched in a practical sense. We (USA) do have a tax treaty with Thailand don’t we? Personally, no objection to paying tax on income generated in Thailand

[@billytheweasel]

US-Thailand Double Taxation Agreement. Specifically Articles 6, 20 and 21 in my case. Forgive the long re-post from my comment. ARTICLE 20 Pensions and Social Security Payments 1. Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State. 2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State. 3. Annuities derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. The term “annuities” as used in this paragraph means a stated sum paid periodically at stated times during a specified number of years, under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration (other than services rendered). For government pensions, see; ***Americans with government pensions/annuities, see: ARTICLE 21 Government Service a) Remuneration, other than a pension, paid by a Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to an individual in respect of services rendered to that State or subdivision or authority shall be taxable only in that State. b) However, such remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that other State and the individual is a resident of that State who: i) is a national of that State; or ii) did not become a resident of that State solely for the purpose of rendering the services. a) Any pension paid by, or out of funds created by, a Contracting State or political subdivision or a local authority thereof to an individual in respect of services rendered to that State or subdivision or authority shall be taxable only in that State. b) However, such pension shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the individual is a resident of, and a national of, that other State. ***American expats with rental property income, see: ARTICLE 6 Income from Immovable (Real) Property 1. Income derived by a resident of a Contracting State from immovable (real) property (including income from agriculture or forestry) situated in the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other State. **So... I (living in the contracting state of Thailand) have a US rental house (in the other contracting state, the US) *may* be taxed in the other contracting state (the US). The US has not surrendered its prime position to collect that rental income tax from its citizen with income from the in situ real property. So, the word *may* has no force. Correct? It has been clarified by the US Dept. of Treasury too.

[@BarentSpringsted]

A non-Thai (American in my case) with a "permanent resident status" is fully eligible to use the Thai medical system as a Thai citizen.

[@tonythaiger93]

Already April soon and experts are all saying "We don't know what 2024 tax rules will bring" LOL

[@Ulbre]

That's because this years taxes won't be assessed until 2025. It will have to be filed by the end of FEB25m then get assessed....so we (and that includes the experts) may get enlightenment until around mid 25....if cases start piling up......and we may never hear anything as it probably won't impact the average punter bringing in their pension or monthly living expenses.

[@makmcqueen8634]

@@UlbreI agree, I think your probably covered with the 800k you have to hold for your visa being as you have to move it from savings, so in theory thats 800k you can live on, from there it follows the staggered tax rules which are quite low first 500k is 10% off the top of my head 500-1mill 15 etc etc (you can find that online) first 150k is free so add that to your 800k and your at close to a mill a year. All theoretical, honestly until the rules are actually laid out its useless speculating. I'm just going to only spend what I need and be more careful what I bring in.

[@billytheweasel]

@@makmcqueen8634 If you need that money in the bank for extension of stay how are you going to live off it too? Take a look and see if your country and Thailand have a Dual Taxation Agreement. It knows. Many experts are shrugging shoulders and making generalizations. If it's more hassle than waiting an hour at the RD, showing my US tax returns, and the DTA if when Somchai tells me to pay anyway - we're gone before Jan 1, 2025!

[@wengelder9256]

@@Ulbreend of March not February

[@surazal54]

you have to bring in over 5,000,000 baht to pay that 34% rate ... so you are more than rich enough to afford it ...

[@andythedriver]

This is another one of those "elements" that have always been present but not brought to the fore until recent changes to the Tax Law. I believe that the amendment is not primarily to seek extra revenue from your everyday "ordinary Joe from their retirement fund" or whatever. I do however think that the loophole in Thai Tax Law that allows monies that are earned the year before by major companies, businesses etc. that are kept out of the country and therefor not taxed to the tune of millions of Baht, are primarily what the Tax Dept are looking at. Initially there is little clarification as to exactly what will change (if anything at all) for most folk, but if you think about this logically, how would this be pursued from the 3-4 million expats (approximately 300,000 are westerners) that live in the Kingdom? it certainly wont be by the banks who want to make money and could not keep up with reporting it anyway, the possibility that it would result in less money being spent locally is counter productive and adding that some would leave the kingdom for other more "cost affective" places to live, would again be counter productive. In short, I am sure that the Authorities are looking more to big business as opposed to the ordinary Joe. That is just my take on things.

[@davidt-gb9pz]

Well said Sir. So many people spreading FUD.

[@stevencochrane115]

On the one hand, we are are classed as being a residnt of Thailand, so liable for Tax. On the other hand, we are not allowed a residency pemit. Heads they win, Tails we lose, great! Also, if we pay tax (classed as a resident) do we have any additional benefits, like voting?

[@commanderbishop]

Setup a Thai business - every time you transfer money, send it to the Thai business as a LOAN, take said money and spend it. Report taxes yearly as a NET loss on income with accounts payable to a foreign entity. :) Problem solved... Yes, you will spend a little for setup and accounting but never be taxed because it a BUSINESS LOAN, it's not income. This is not advised or legal counsel :)...

[@kjensen7819]

Okay. I will pay when they come and tell me I have to. Until then I will just relax and spend all the money I have earned back home and paid tax on for 40 year, into the Thai economy. Still not a bad deal for the Thai people.

[@tvr286]

You will go to Thai jail for tax crime…

[@billytheweasel]

Bad plan but it just might work! For a while.

[@rob-xb3vp]

@@tvr286 If any expat is jailed for a 'tax crime' it would virberate around the world.

[@PearlHarborPirate]

Thanks for stomping on these. You're saving a lot of people a lot of issues caused by reacting to bad info. Folks explode and exploit things like this, just for clicks on their youtube channel, or likes on their social media. Then they get angry at people that are professionals in the field that correct them.

[@ajs423]

Can you do a video on if expats will have to file tax returns in Thailand currently or at some point in the future based on the new memorandum?

[@paddylinehan8559]

Yes, Ben, despite talking on this subject many times, you never make clear is the talked about tax for those working here? In business? Or is there a prospect that tax may apply to retirees?

[@les8518]

No one as yet knows. That is what he is telling us. He does not know.

[@timlastly]

50% of expats just may leave.

[@lezzeppelin2222]

Good get out soon as possible 🤪

[@billytheweasel]

If the various DTA's are unilaterally voided by Thailand, or the procedure to prove our country's taxes were paid are too insane... then we're out before Jan 1, 2025.

[@dennissamui]

Plus don't forget most of the amature tax advisers are just looking for clicks for google ads

[@AG-so4gl]

Keep money in crypto and transfer thru Wise, and limit the amount of money that hits a thai Bank acc

[@jean-charlesdesjardins6344]

Great advice, thank you for doing what you do 👏

[@billytheweasel]

Thanks for these vids Benjamin. The misinformation you mention causes me to go to the source. Immigration sites are not great but the US-Thailand Double Taxation Agreement is. Specifically Articles 6, 20 and 21 in my case. Forgive this long post. ARTICLE 20 Pensions and Social Security Payments 1. Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State. 2. Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State. 3. Annuities derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. The term “annuities” as used in this paragraph means a stated sum paid periodically at stated times during a specified number of years, under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration (other than services rendered). For government pensions, see; ***Americans with government pensions/annuities, see: ARTICLE 21 Government Service a) Remuneration, other than a pension, paid by a Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to an individual in respect of services rendered to that State or subdivision or authority shall be taxable only in that State. b) However, such remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that other State and the individual is a resident of that State who: i) is a national of that State; or ii) did not become a resident of that State solely for the purpose of rendering the services. a) Any pension paid by, or out of funds created by, a Contracting State or political subdivision or a local authority thereof to an individual in respect of services rendered to that State or subdivision or authority shall be taxable only in that State. b) However, such pension shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the individual is a resident of, and a national of, that other State. ***American expats with rental property income, see: ARTICLE 6 Income from Immovable (Real) Property 1. Income derived by a resident of a Contracting State from immovable (real) property (including income from agriculture or forestry) situated in the other Contracting State may be taxed in that other State. ***So... I (living in the contracting state of Thailand) have a US rental house (in the **_other_** contracting state, the US) *may* be taxed in the _other_ contracting state (the US). The US has not surrendered its prime position to collect that rental income tax from its citizen with income from the in situ real property. Correct? It has been clarified by the US Treasury Dept. as follows; DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY TECHNICAL EXPLANATION OF THE CONVENTION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND THE PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME SIGNED AT BANGKOK ON NOVEMBER 26, 1996" American expats with rental income, see Dept. of Treasury clarification; Article 6 (Income from Immovable (Real) Property) This Article deals with the taxation of income from immovable, or real, property. The two terms should be understood to have the same meaning. Paragraph 1 The first paragraph of Article 6 states the general rule that income of a resident of a Contracting State derived from real property situated in the other Contracting State may be taxed in the Contracting State in which the property is situated. *** So, " income of a resident of a Contracting State (me, in Thailand) derived from real property situated in the _other_ Contracting State (my US rental house) *may* be taxed in the Contracting State in which the property is situated (taxed by the US)." The word *may* implies that the US could surrender its right to collect rental income tax to Thailand. The US has not notified me nor publicly surrendered its right to collect that tax, so is still in the prime position to collect the tax. Therefore Thailand is not to collect that tax - due to the DTA. It is exempt. And no "credit" for US taxes paid should be a consideration by the Revenue Dept. of Thailand after money is transferred into Thailand. Thailand acting unilaterally to void the DTA would have the involvement of Treasury and the State Department, it would seem. Please correct me if wrong, thanks!

[@davidhanak2767]

Thank you

[@dirk7207]

Let me say this one last time for everyone. This is all about getting the Thai citizens to report and pay tax on what they make. There are so many Thai people working under the table abroad that send money home tax free every year. People need to stop thinking this is an attack on Foreigner's.

[@andrewmckenzie4246]

Perhaps not but foreigners could get caught up in the new arrangements, that’s the point.

[@lingua19999]

but you can also gift up tp 20.000 million bath tax free to your immediate family. At least it's what my account says . Which is also an issue because every freaking accountant says different things in thailand

[@billytheweasel]

@@lingua19999 Yep, my immigration "expert" was wrong on multiple things. So was the next one, but new wrong stuff. Imagine what convincing the RD official that you don't owe 30% tax will be like! My tax "expert" already shows a misreading of the US-Thailand DTA Article 21. Pretty sure we're out by Jan 1, 2025.

[@Ulbre]

This years taxes won't be assessed until 2025. It will have to be filed by the end of FEB25 and then get assessed....so we (and that includes the experts) may not gain enlightenment until around mid 25....if cases start piling up, and if they don't start piling up then we may never hear anything as it probably won't impact the average punter bringing in their pension or monthly living expenses.

[@davidramsy3048]

Im a Canadian citizen living in Thailand l have a large inheritance l would like to transfer my money to my bank account in Thailand is it taxable as canada does not have tax on inheritance l have not transferred it as l do not want to pay tax on it what do you suggest?

[@lezzeppelin2222]

For you 50% taxes 🤪

[@davidramsy3048]

@@lezzeppelin2222 hmm l listen to a thai lawyer say inheritance is tax exempt on retired working for you. Where did you get your information from

[@billytheweasel]

@@davidramsy3048 That's a troll. Ignore. See if your country has a DTA with Thailand.

[@davidramsy3048]

@@billytheweasel yes they do have

[@billytheweasel]

@@davidramsy3048 Does it have an Article covering inheritance?

[@henrydelbosque1989]

Then it's urgent to wait...

[@FarangNick]

Everybody should just chill... wait it out. And when it really comes to the point that (too much) taxes have to be paid, there are still ways to legally avoid it.

[@glyyyven]

Great video. I’m an accountant in the US. I want to retire (someday) to Thailand. Wouldn’t try to handle a big transaction that could trigger a tollgate tax in another country. Seek an in country professional.

[@billytheweasel]

Professionals here don't know either. See the DTA for the country in question. It knows. But good luck making a Thai RD Officer know. Providing evidence here is like squeezing a balloon.

[@KeithFLOOK-wd3uw]

Its typical scare mongering ... someone that doesn't know the true position screads rumours on the Internet and others believe that. Pleased that people like yourself try and put them right.

[@emilgonzales9293]

Thank you for trying to calm the masses! There is so much misinformation being dessiminated on KZbin regarding taxes in Thailand.

[@ideaphile]

Thanks a breathe of common sense, something somewhat lacking on KZbin.

[@danielbuckett5913]

Thanks

[@DanThomson-f5f]

This video does not present you in a very good light brother.

[@bozbozman1575]

Just make small transfers over a long time to avoid detection... Allegedly

[@rogerparis]

How small though?

[@JohnSmith-wp2yu]

The land of a million misunderstandings.

[@tingtong1809]

More click bait

[@mst6429]

If it happens the real estate will collapse. I seriously doubt the 30% tax and i'm pretty sure they know it too.

[@cash4cat]

Couldn't 😁

[@minethesky]

THANK YOU!!! So tired of hearing people freaking out about this, just because someone told them something that they got through the grapevine after drinking 15 Chang. It's been non-stop overreaction, but, that said, I find that overreacting is quite a common trend amongst the expat community in Thailand, at least from what I can see on social media. Really appreciate your videos for trying to combat that.

[@mangostickyrice555]

Thumbs up 👍 Hart

[@Old-n8f]

Goodbye Thailand

[@richardevans3801]

Nobody knows yet. But everyone is an expert until they start to learn the basics. Then they shut up.

[@NapoleonDynamyte]

People who entertain the possibility of new taxation and then freak out about it crack me up 😂

[@bluesman7475]

good video

[@bluesman7475]

he says no policy yet, we must wait to see what is enacted.

[@billytheweasel]

@@bluesman7475 Best to see if your country has a DTA with Thailand and read it carefully.

[@VeteranxxxINF]

Your cool head and sound logic always impresses me. Thank you for your advice.;