Experimental Character Showcase - Atheist

[@BasketOfPuppies642]

I had an idea, and I can’t tell if it’s the Best idea or the Worst idea: an Athiest game with two Lunatics, each of which is told that the other one is their Lunatic.

[@carpepesci]

PattersTTV did something like this recently. He put in two Fang Gu tokens and showed each to the other as their Lunatic. It's not on his YT channel but you can probably find on his Twitch channel.

[@aleafinthewind52]

Atheist game with all lunatics.

[@michaeledmunds7056]

Atheist game with three lunatics, one Atheist, and the rest saints.

[@lhorrible2100]

A Legion's worth of Atheist tokens

[@zivosthrintolimgren3513]

NRB Atheist game! Make it happen, Daddy Ben!

[@jordonjones3423]

Been trying to see if they are doing it

[@YTFlove4ever]

They still haven't done it😂

[@kyleb8117]

Very mild setup spoiler: I thought it was hilarious at 15:01 when Nicky said "I feel like an Atheist because next door is a church..." and I looked over and saw Jams the Monk sitting "next door".

[@SameerYalamanchi]

I'm so disappointed by the missed opportunity to have a washerwomen see both mayors

[@TreacherousTetrisTerrorist]

Can there be a world, where in an atheist game, everybody else is a lunatic that thinks they are the legion?

[@MindOfGenius]

thats so evil...and i love it

[@runagrundelunde4055]

I think it's not possible because (with only very few exceptions) every character can appear only once, so in each game there can be one lunatic max.

[@sora8827]

@@runagrundelunde4055 But the Aethiest rules text says the Storyteller can break any rules - its how we have 2 mayors in the game

[@runagrundelunde4055]

@@sora8827 You're of course right, my bad... :'D Should have watched the video before starting to read the comments. Thanks for making me aware. :)

[@TheGamblingisgood]

So the week after this game, they did a script with lunatic, legion, atheist…. And poppygrower. No spoilers but a lot of people were pretty convinced they were lunatics.

[@dsch0709]

Vortox on the script with 3 saints would be fun to see if they think it's just minions bluffing or if it is a atheist game that you made 3 saints lol

[@Frantasia]

watching the mayor-situation made me really wish they'd actually roleplay a bit of an election campaign, which gave me an idea. I don't know if this has been done yet, but I think adding a Cult Leader to this script might be hilarious - and since all good players (so ALL PLAYERS) - have to vote yes, that won't give a preemtive win either

[@123r97]

A lunatic in an atheist game would be hilarious. Maybe tell them the athiest is their marrionette and see how long it takes them to realize there is no evil. Or tell them the role that makes the demon not know what their minions are is in play.

[@lexicornfell7361]

Yams and sweet potatoes are technically different vegetables, but so similar they often get confused, especially in the US.

[@joshestes6427]

They are similar, but to add more details the yams are less sweet and are always white inside while the sweet potato can be orange, purple, or white.

[@heavyonthemustardplz]

Awesome to have Steve appear on the stream!

[@KingDooburu]

Poppy Grower + 2 Lunatics + Atheist

[@kyleb8117]

This is giving me Legion vibes and I love it. I feel like there's a million ideas that'd be really fun with Atheist. I love it so much. It's not my favorite character (probably goes to Amnesiac so far), but it sure is up there, if not 2nd. Also, we share profile pictures. I'm going to guess that we are actually both the Lunatic. Wait. Who is the ST?

[@q-tuber7034]

“Proof that you can rehabilitate demons.”

[@everblight]

A bit late to the party, but I think it would be both funny and somewhat thematic to have a script with both the Atheist and the Heretic.

[@TatsumiyaLightning]

Come on. It's 2am. You can't do this to me...

[@KeenX72]

Will there be a video showcasing how to run a Teensyville script? I'm very curious as to how a smaller player count changes how the game is run

[@BloodontheClocktower]

That's certainly something I'll keep in mind. - Ben

[@DrakithReiter]

Could you do an atheist game with 3 lunatics who think they are the little monsta and give them minion tokens and have them choose who holds the baby and basically use their picks to make it all seem like a normal game but every so often something doesn't add up?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

The answer to every possible question you could have about the Atheist is ‘yes’. The Storyteller can break the rules so literally anything can happen. The question you should be asking is “should you do it?” Remember that the ST’s job, in an Atheist game, is to create a fun puzzle for the players to solve. If what you're doing is making that puzzle impossible to solve then you probably shouldn't do it. In the case of this specific question, I think it's very likely that they'd quickly figure out what's going on. Maybe if you just had 1, it might work. Having said that, the Lunatic's ability states that they think they're a Demon, so handing them a Minion token also breaks that rule. - Ben

[@Lunaraia]

If I had been the storyteller and Noel told me that in an Atheist game... (continued after the read more to hide spoilers) I would have done so on the spot, what was he going to do, out himself?

[@JoxyJoxyJoxyJoxy]

Is the Atheist + Pit Hag combo jinxed?? Cause otherwise, it seems like a recipe for a chaotic fuster cluck.

If Pit-Hag creates an Atheist in a game where Atheist did not exist before, they allow the storyteller to start breaking the game rules (could be balanced by the ST in favor of either team) while also giving the good team another win condition, which is to execute the ST. This is why Pit-Hag creating an Atheist is almost never a good idea because if both are on the script, evil can win the game by convincing the good team to execute the ST, that there is an Atheist in the game, without actually creating an Atheist. This is one of the reasons why they don't actually need to be jinxed, in addition to the fact that Atheist ability to allow the ST to break the game rules supersedes any other kind of character ability and not necessitate any kind of jinx. This might change in the future but if I understand correctly, that's how it stands at the moment.

[@Ze_No_One]

@ Correct me if im wrong, but since the athiests's entire ability seems to be a setup ability (like a baron), wouldn't pithagging one into play have no effect? just like a baron? or is it treated as a normal ability and would function as soon as its created

[@kyleb8117]

@@Ze_No_One The Atheist actually has two parts of its ability. The main part and the setup part. The part of the Atheist ability that is in square brackets is ignored because it only functions during setup. Everything else works. Pit-Haging a Baron into play just creates a Baron character. The "main" part of the Baron ability is just flavor text to fill space. It just repeats what their setup ability is because it's literally all they have. To further clarify in case you don't have the Atheist ability text handy, it is: "The Storyteller can break the game rules & if executed, good wins, even if you are dead. [No evil characters]"

[@skruffytiger2002]

I've wondered what happens if an alchemist -pithag turns an athiest into something else, if the game is automatically over? But oif course the ST would break the rules and not let that happen

[@Coldheart322]

For an atheist game, I think having a lunatic vortox, recluse, and drunk alchemist. The lunatic gets told the other's names as the minions. If you have a alchemical cerenovus and the ST makes people mad each day, are the players sure the "alchemist" is actually a townsfolk or actually a minion. Not sure how well that would actually work, but like the idea the atheist really changes up the game.

[@Benusr]

How would a cult leader work in an Athiest game? Could they be turned evil, because you're breaking the rules or can you never turn them evil, because it says no evil characters.

[@akadam90]

this is great i was thinking about a character that uses the ST, my thought was the ST being the Demon though ( thats how in depth i got in to the idea)

[@lecommentar9851]

Isn't ST basically the Demon in an Atheist game?

[@chrisseddon5823]

Vortox atheist combo? Just having it on the script makes a lot of fun right?

[@lecommentar9851]

Atheist isn't supposed to appear in games with Demons

[@chrisseddon5823]

@@lecommentar9851 yes, but having on the script makes for a potential of either.

[@michaeledmunds7056]

​@@lecommentar9851Technically they can since the storyteller is allowed to break the rules in an atheist game, and that may include the rules of the atheist itself

[@lecommentar9851]

@@michaeledmunds7056 nope. The "no evils" is a setup rule so you apply it before you start breaking rules due to Atheist. Besides, the point of Atheist isn't for ST to have power trips and do whatever they want.

[@QuibbleTrouble]

@@lecommentar9851 Technically storytellers can break setup rules with an atheist game, in fact it's very common and it's what allowed this game to contain two mayors, but it's considered a bad idea to break the rules of the atheist token itself. It's one of the many "yes, but don't" things in botc.

[@snarkbotanya6557]

So after watching a few of these experimental character showcases... I kind of want to know what would happen if an Alchemist Pit Hag turned the Atheist into something else. Would the game immediately end since there are no evil players and there is no longer an Atheist in play? Or would the good team still need to nominate and execute the storyteller(s)?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Since the ST can break the rules in an Atheist game, the correct move would be to not allow this to happen, as it would effectively end the game (or leave it with no possible ending). - Ben

[@snarkbotanya6557]

@@BloodontheClocktower Wow, I didn't expect to get a ruling! That makes a lot of sense, thanks for clarifying.

[@BloodontheClocktower]

You're welcome!

[@TheBaldr]

Happy Birthday Ben!

[@Benusr]

How would a Philo that gains the ability of an Athiest works?

[@Eislog]

I like the drunk atheist

[@tristanishappy1145]

If the Atheist was in Sects and Violets could the Storyteller have a fake Cerenovus and tell a player they are mad each night despite there not being a Cerenovus?

Yes - in an Atheist game, the ST can simulate evil abilities by "breaking the rules" as part of Atheist ability, which can include Cerenovus madness. The whole point of Atheist is to create a unique puzzle for all of the players, who are good, to try to convince them the existence of an evil team amongst themselves, while leaving enough clues to allow them to solve the puzzle that it's actually an Atheist game, and they are actually all good. That balance is extremely difficult to manage and why the Atheist is one of the most advanced characters in Clocktower.

[@MrBlbll]

SO many possibilities...

[@GroundThing]

How do the good players lose in an Atheist Game? It seems like the solution for any atheist game is to treat it like a regular game, until you're down to 2 characters (when it'd be impossible for it to be a non-atheist game)

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Hey, thanks for the question. In an Atheist game, Good loses when there are just two players left alive. This means, with someone claiming to be the Atheist, players on the final day must decide whether to make one final execution of a player, trying to execute the demon, or use their final execution to execute the Storyteller. - Evin

[@TrevorUtley44]

My brain just immediately put Potato Friends into the In Betweeners Football Friends bit. I don't like my brain.

[@Noelwiz]

Huh, in an athiest game, you could add a drunk athiest. Oh, and then it’s a big question of if one is a drunk and the other is an evil bluffing, two evils bluffing, or idk. That feels a bit mean but also kinda fun

[@raginphoenix2261]

Athiest game with a drunk atheist xD But the rest of town are all strong info roles

[@vastowen4562]

this is a random weird thing, but I skipped to about 6 minutes in and my brain didn't register Edd's accent, so at 6:30 I heard "Coater also prefers Mister Coater rather than just Coater if possible" but once I saw Ben changing the name i realized I was dumb, lol

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Dakota does often shorten it to 'Kota, so it was probably that. - Ben

[@vastowen4562]

@@BloodontheClocktower I was just missed the D on the first one, and then I misheard the "Miss Dakota" as "Miss-da Coater" on the second lol. Great game though, and you're a great storyteller. Recently found out about this game and once I heard about the Atheist I had to watch a video with one. The legion faking Atheist NRB game was also awesome. At some point you have to do a genuine Atheist game with the NRB crew though!

[@DakotaAvery23]

@@BloodontheClocktowerand that’s not even getting into the fact that half of my clock friends call me Kota/Dakota and half call me Avery hahahha

[@lhesitante]

This game is hilarious!

[@Verloren167]

A lunatic in an atheist game could be fun. Though he would have to be told his minions, which I'm not sure how you'd do, unless he's poisoned. Oh wait no, ST can break the rules, so just tell him two people anyway. Also kinda tempted to try an atheist game where you play it totally straight; don't actually break the rules. Only need to not put in an investigator.

[@savo6070]

Could make it seem like there's a poppy grower?

[@sofiipote7]

@@savo6070 atheist + lunatic + poppy grower would be so evil I love it

[@ryoryo9936]

Can an Alchemist-DA protect the Story Teller?

[@ChickenNugNugz2]

No, no players can pick the ST with their ability and also if a DA is in play then it isn't an atheist game so wouldn't be able to either

[@runagrundelunde4055]

@@ChickenNugNugz2 I think, this is why they specified it is an Alchemist-DA. The Alchemist is a Townsfolk with a not in-play minion ability. :) Nevertheless, I also think, that an Alchemist-DA can't pick the storyteller.

[@ryoryo9936]

Yeah, I was specifically thinking of a scenario where the Alchemist-DA suspects that the supposed Atheist is lying, but is worried that the town will believe them and execute the ST. Thanks for clearing that up!

[@runagrundelunde4055]

@@ryoryo9936 No problem. :)

[@scrungozeclown836]

​@@ChickenNugNugz2 minions and demons can appear in an atheist game, they just aren't evil

[@BasketOfPuppies642]

All-mayor game when?

[@Benusr]

How would an engineer work in an Athiest game?

[@lizardtail2510]

Is it just me or did Ben let it slip it was an Atheist game when he let Dakota nominate twice? Or are they playing with a different rule where you can nominate as many times as you'd like?

[@KyrieFortune]

Yeah, that's the point of an Atheist game: while is says the Storyteller CAN break the rules, truth is they MUST break at least some rule to give the good team an opportunity to win, since the Storyteller's role is to provide a balanced game.

[@Benusr]

With a general in the game does the ST represent evil with an Athiest also in the game?

[@bennburns]

I can see you've asked half a dozen questions about how certain characters would work in an Atheist game. I'm going to answer them all here, rather than individually on each one. The Atheist is, by far, the most complicated character in BOTC. This is because it completely changes the nature of the game. In an Atheist game, the Storyteller may do whatever they like, providing they simulate an actual game being played. So the answer to 'how does this character work?' is simply - 'exactly as it would in any other game.' You, as the Storyteller, are creating a fun puzzle for all of the players to figure out. You should give information to info characters, you should protect characters who are safe from the demon etc. Having said all of that, you will also need to break a few rules, because the broken rules are what will clue the players in to the fact that something is amiss. Atheist is a character that requires both players and ST to have hundreds of games worth of experience. In order to understand an Atheist game, you need to have all of the context of haviong played loads of games, otherwise it just becomes a confusing mess.

[@evenaxin3628]

Can you have an Athiest and a drunk that believes they're an Athiest?

[@evenaxin3628]

Also (Obviously not in this script, but in a script that has both), can you have both an Athiest and a [good role that sees themself as a demon]?

[@evenaxin3628]

And third, Atheist says no evil characters. Could you have a good minion?

[@BloodontheClocktower]

The answer "can you do this in an Atheist game?" is always going to be yes, without any exception whatsoever. The more important question is "should you do this in an Atheist game?" You're supposed to be creating a fun puzzle for the good players to unravel, dropping in bizarre or impossible moments that subtly give a clue to the fact that the rules are being broken. I would say that, if used correctly, all of your scenarios could be used to provide clues that the Atheist is in play. - Ben

[@jokerthor]

I don't know....Atheist does'nt seem like the proper name. Atheists simply don't believe in god. Anime Protaganists however try to kill god. I think this role should be the Anime Protagonist role lol.

[@Shavinderyt]

Been rummaging with this name, and I think it sorta fits if you look at it as though the atheist doesn't believe in gods, demons and minions, and the storyteller is just a Scooby Doo villian behind the curtain. If it is supposed to be that the story teller is a god, I think the name "Antitheist" works better (someone who is actively against the idea of a god)

[@kyleb8117]

But what if you have the power of God AND anime on your side? 👀 Antitheist is a cool name, though, NGL.

[@jdrenwick57]

Spoilers for the end If this wasn't an atheist game, why would a person become a good demon? And how would that affect the win condition?

The imp has the ability to target themselves and pass the demonhood to a minion (colloquially referred as "star-pass" in clocktower community), which allows the storyteller to register the Recluse as a minion and let them become a good demon. The win conditions for good are still the same, which is to kill the demon, regardless of their alignment. So, in the case of a good demon, the town could (if they believe the player claiming to be a good demon) either execute them and win or go to the night without executing anyone and let them target themselves at night. Please note, in a regular game of Trouble Brewing, ST allowing a good player (the Recluse) to become a demon is a rare case and should be used with caution. This is the only case in a Trouble Brewing game where a good player can become a demon, but other scripts (like Sects & Violets) involving Pit-Hag can allow good players to become demons more freely - but also note S&V is a more advanced script.

[@jdrenwick57]

@ oh cool, I never would have considered making the recluse a minion for the imp to transfer to. I love how insane even the basic script gets in this game! Thanks for the explanation! Does that also mean a recluse could register as an evil imp and become an evil imp as well?

@@jdrenwick57 No, Recluse's ability to "register" as evil doesn't actually change their alignment, they are still a good player, they only read as evil to other abilities. The "register" that matters in the case of imp star-passing to the Recluse is their ability to register as "minion", the character type. If they registered as "demon", the character type, they would not be able to catch the "star-pass" anyways, because imp can pass their ability to a minion, not another demon. And also note, Recluse never actually gains the ability of specific minions or demons while they are registering with the ability of Recluse, for example, they cannot register as "Scarlet Woman" to get the demonhood when an Imp is executed. Only imp's night death allows the Recluse to register as a generic minion become the good imp.

[@andrewwolfgang7461]

I'm still early in the atheist video, so I don't know what happens. Can a slayer in an atheist game shot the story teller? If so, if there is no atheist in play, would evil win if that happens?

[@Humorless_Wokescold]

The atheist basically negates all other abilities. If an atheist is in play the slayer's ability functions if, when and how the story teller decides.

[@andrewwolfgang7461]

@@Humorless_Wokescold so, technically, they could just bounce the spot of their chest of they choose, or die to have evil win

[@Benusr]

How would a Bounty Hunter work in an Athiest game?

[@michaeledmunds7056]

Up to the storyteller

[@apostolic238acts]

Can anyone use the bots

[@BloodontheClocktower]

Nope, only people with certain server permissions can. If you're asking if the bot is publicly available, it isn't. But there's a similar bot called 'Moveer' that you could use. - Ben

[@apostolic238acts]

@@BloodontheClocktower thank you that’s helpful

[@Benusr]

How would a Heretic in an Athiest game work?

[@KyrieFortune]

The usual losing condition for the Good team is two players remain alive - with the Heretic, that becomes the winning condition, so a Heretic-Atheist game would be Salem Trials 2 Electric Boogaloo

[@diamondsky3787]

lmao that last part @@KyrieFortune 😂

[@krutch540]

If the atheist is in play, can you show The Drunk as a minion since there's no evil? Or three Drunks to simulate an evil team?

[@bloergk]

I just don't get it... If the atheist is on the script, then execute the storyteller day one no matter what!!! Worst case scenario: you wasted one measly little execution. Best case: you immediately win. A fifty-fifty chance of winning, and the only punishment for failure is basically equivalent to (for example) a regular low-info day where you execute a corpse for the Vortox because no-one else seems like a good option.

[@dsch0709]

If you execute the storyteller in a non atheist game evil wins.

[@Jami353]

I believe that if you execute the storyteller and it isn't an athiest game... good loses instantly. Just from watching a couple of playthroughs with it.

[@bloergk]

@@Jami353 ooooh OK it finally makes sense. It's a shame that it would make the character description too long if it was mentioned in there... I get that technically it's not part of the Atheist's power (since it's just a general rule that takes effect when it's NOT in play) but it still feels like it goes against the SPIRIT of the one-line descriptions in character sheets: with all other characters, you can comprehend the entire point of their power just by reading the short description. With the atheist, it's really mandatory to dive deeper into weird advanced rules. Specifically a rule that exists ONLY because of that character, to boot. Oh well it's a minor thing.

[@EtoileLion]

@@bloergk "with all other characters, you can comprehend the entire point of their power just by reading the short description". The point of the Atheist's power is that the ST can break the game. I'd say its 100% in the description. :P You can comprehend the point; the problem is the implementation. This is not a unique problem to the Atheist. It's why various interactions have had to be spelled out, and why jinxes exist. Unfortunately, rules in a game like this are not so simple a lot of the time. The sheer number of Drunken/Poisoned edge cases fills pages of text.

[@Bigsaltyjohn]

If the Atheist is not in play and the storyteller is executed, Good loses the game. Hence someone coming out as the Atheist could be an evil player trying to make Good lose.

[@jeffersonrodriguez8081]

This seems dumb

[@bennburns]

Any particular reason you feel that way?

[@jeffersonrodriguez8081]

@@bennburns I just feel like there’s way too much room for meta gaming

[@bennburns]

@@jeffersonrodriguez8081 Yeah, to be fair, if you don't like meta gaming then you probably won't be too keen on Blood on the Clocktower. It's a huge and foundational part of the game's allure. Although curiously, the Atheist is the one character where this isn't the case so much, as the ST is there to literally drop mechanical hints that it's an Atheist game. But it's very hard to run well/properly, so I'm all for folks choosing not to use it, as I'd rather that be the case than a bunch of beginner STs end up running un-fun games with the Atheist in them.

[@jeffersonrodriguez8081]

@@bennburns I guess it isn’t fair to say it’s dumb but rather it’s very difficult to manage and seems to be primarily for experienced players. Personally I’m more for roles that can be picked up by even a novice player

[@bennburns]

@@jeffersonrodriguez8081 Oh yeah, totally. This is the 'I've finished all of the content, levelled up fully, raided all of the dungeons, now lets take a look at what the modding scene has to offer" type of character. To be fair, I've played some pretty dumb mods for PC games, but I've also enjoyed a lot of very dumb mods.