Experimenting with Jumping PCB Robots

[@MangeDT]

You could try a design with three (or more) legs instead of just two to reduce the twisting of the magnet.

[@finndriver1063]

Hey Carl, I'm not an electrical engineer, but since you're already using a coil, could you use an external electric field to slowly charge a capacitor via the coil? Then a smaller circuit could be used to dump the contained power much faster

[@mattblack6736]

I appreciate how much info you stuffed in a video that's not even 4mins long. Intriguing work as always!

[@Hunnter2k3]

I absolutely love the research you do with all these flexible boards. It's incredibly fascinating. Good luck with the future prototypes!

[@LiveEnjoyment]

i would love too see the 12 layer version to be honest.

[@olleolsson7837]

Not to that guy, but you “always” measure from the lowest point. I’m not trying to be negative and make you feel bad, cause I think you are doing a great job and it’s quite interesting. Keep it up 👍🏽

[@CarlBugeja]

Good point 😅 sorry for the misinformation

[@wombleofwimbledon5442]

This exchange is a Good Thing. Also, keep it up, man. You're doing great work, and becoming your Future Self. Excelsior! That said, "That Guy" is one of your best teachers, after Failure.

[@CircsC]

I love your projects. I'm especially fond of the holographic display module and I think maybe some of the failure modes you're experiencing are caused by the copper traces work hardening and cracking. I wish you success in tackling it.

[@hgbugalou]

PCBWay's marketing team is doing it right. I hope this model works because it is super handy for small scale makers and tinkerer's.

[@michaeldean4362]

I would love to see a version of the frog with the 12 layer PCB

[@techondrugs8388]

Next time you make more of these try adding goofy cartoon sfx please

[@MaxWattage]

Hi Carl, the version I would like to see is where you have two opposing PCB coils, (rather than one PCB coil and one permanent magnet) Switch the coil polarities back and forth between being mutually attractive and being mutually repulsive, and the whole assembly will hop. The overall weight will be MUCH lower too becuase flexible PCBs are lighter than permanent magnets. It should be easier to assemble too. Enjoy !

[@Trench80]

Great video and verry interesting tests! Thank you.. I would love to se a version with multible stacked (folded PCB) coils. It might also help to propperly time the pulse lenght. The jumping height is the highest, when the magnet is pulled to the lowest point. You might even be able to use the rebounce of the magnet on the surface, for extra acceleration (try on a silicone sheet). Reversing the polarity in a second pulse will help to push the magnet up.

[@mathieub3953]

I'm not sure you can say it jumped 25mm. It reaches 25mm because of the extension of the flexible arms and the magnet. But the actual distance between its base and the ground is 10mm. Depends what you want it to do. Jumping over obstacles the 10mm count, jumping to reach something up high the 25mm are more important.

[@PCBWay]

You are going places, carl 👍👍

[@jimmytvfclassic]

That was very interesting to watch. So, in order to jump, it relies on the mass of the magnet to shoot it and make it lift. I've noticed that magnet has a tiny surface area compared to the coil, maybe increasing that surface area can increase the efectivity of the magnetic field that coil already have, but I don't know how will affect in terms of heating...

[@jakelorkin2661]

Would love to see some controlled movement with a few 12 layer PCB coils.

[@bonce]

I want to see you build all of them, they make me giggle :D The spring test was utterly hilarious. It was also fascinating as it feels potentially possible as the current spring layout leads to a non-constrained sideways motion (clearly) which different shaped 'wibbles' could potentially solve. Saying that though, the 25mm result is by far the most successful as frankly it looks like a froggy did a jumpy!

[@jbrownson]

So creative, love this project

[@ABaumstumpf]

Is there anything standing in the way of using multiple layers of flexible PCB by just folding it over? I am thinking of a simple wrap-around creating 3(6) layers.

[@eslenik]

maybe spiral shape can work. with no power magnet will be stationary on pcb coil when power applied lt will jump and spiral shape flex arm will pull back

[@dunichtich100]

You could make a "rigid-flex" design using the 12-layer coild PCB in the center and the 25mm arms to support the magnets ;)

[@recotectando]

I'm feeling seeing the future.

[@matekochkoch]

Try a cross. The propulsion is best when the magnets are above center of the coil. Gluing two coils at90° together will not only allow to double the current but also reduce the fredom of lateral movement.

[@ChirpHandpans]

Nice one. Try using a rubber band to create a slingshot jumper. Use different shore hardness rubber with different lengths and thickness and find out which works for you

[@MarinusMakesStuff]

i think the best solution would be to use three arms instead of two or four. Did you ever see the most stable chair? It's not the one with two or four legs, it's the one with three legs ;)

[@d34th56]

At this point it's your wave generation. You need to turn the coil on as the mass is way moving up. If you can do it fast enough maybe you can do a double jump.

[@andymuzzo8568]

Go little frog your free

[@Yorimor_]

Would adding a 3rd or 4th arm allow the magnets to be more stable?

[@canonicaltom]

Definitely the 12-layer coil!

[@KeithOlson]

How about stacking two (or more) of the springs on top of each other, rotating them evenly. That *should* prevent twisting and increase the total power. Does that sound reasonable?

[@MrChoklad]

Is the objective to jump higher or to move smoother? The spring pcb design with plastic stiffners, on video at least, seemed to be able to move very little but very smoothly, so that with maybe some higher frequency of the switching it could move around easily

[@CarlBugeja]

the spring pcb was more stable but for now my aim is too achieve the highest jump which will improve the jumping high & increases the weight limit of the battery version

[@gbmewada]

Nice video... I think, instead of having 2 thick arms, multiple thin arms would give more stability in jump and height... Like an old paper lamps...

[@EasyOne]

Very nice video

[@TojikCZ]

can you de-energize the coils sooner? Sending short pulses at high power with cooldown inbetween? Or are you already doing that? Also, can you pull the magnet back down mid air for higher (but less precise) jumps

[@CarlBugeja]

That's what I did in the 3w test 🙂 I tried pulling the magnet down in my other video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/nXulfniGgrWqi80) but the results didn't improve

[@TojikCZ]

@@CarlBugeja ah, sorry for suggesting something you already tried

[@Heliomation]

awesome! ^w^ pcb's are awesome

[@myetis1990]

you can use bigger diameter thinner magnets I think did you test it before?

[@JohnWesleyDavison]

Have you tried adding extra plastic "dead" legs to add stability?

[@CrAzYDr1veR]

i can see that for stability you always need 3 or 4 points to hold the magnets

[@chemieju6305]

Would it be viable to design coils that consist of two pcb bits that get folded and soldered onto each other, effectively creating a coil with twice the turns without the cons of working with thicker material everywhere?

[@SGRAHMD]

i would like to see 4 thin round shaped coil belt. kind of tornado shape design with little more wide base on the magnet sight to stop flipping

[@macrobionic]

Can you use a second coil to replace the permanent magnet? Then use a capacitor as an energy store and lighter projectile weight. (Sorry if this has already been tried and answered a million times before)

[@charmio]

Maybe a super capacitor could supliment the lithium battery to keep weight down while maintaining current capacity?

[@darthPixel]

the magnet starts the jump very rapidly but then it's slowed down and it's loosing the momentum by bending arms inward. i think it would jump higher if the momentum would be transfered in the same rapid manner by hitting a stiff element by the magnet. then the kinetic energy would be transfered with less heat conversion (bending spring is heating it up right?). say if there would be a "frame/cage" and the coil would be mounted to the base and the magnet would hit the top element of the frame... i'm definitely not a physicist... :)

[@newmonengineering]

use 3 or 4 arms to prevent it twisting. the 12 layer would be cool but require more power I would think, not sure. what if the magnet goes through the coil, not sure if that would make a difference but interesting idea. awesome work.

[@newmonengineering]

also maybe swapping the polarity of the coil during a pulse would yield higher forces

[@rezaasaddoor2562]

good job man

[@esahg5421]

excellent 👍 thank you bru! am I subscribed yes yes I am!

[@gergelysoki1705]

i am no engeenier. Would you able to impleement origami and kinetic/stored enerrgy to make it jump higher?

[@weazeldark3983]

Should try 4 mount for magnet instead of 2 likely improve results

[@dunichtich100]

I have a reliabilty question by the way: how many bend cycles at which bend radius and at which fpc thickness do those traces in the jumping circuits last, before they break?

[@CarlBugeja]

Will answer this in a separate video next month

[@dunichtich100]

@@CarlBugeja cool 😊👍🏼 I am really looking forward to it. Serious fan here 😁

[@foobar879]

Seeing those flexible pcbs I wonder if those would be working nice with compliant mechanics or even origami.

[@hamishburnettbrowne9811]

very interesting! I would be curious to see if upping the voltage could make these jump higher.... have you thought about running them at higher voltage and lower amprage? it should be more efficient at higher voltage? as for how to power a higher voltage system you could use miniquad batterys in a 4s configuration (14.8 volts).

[@CarlBugeja]

It does work 🙂 I have mentioned this with the 3w test but it is limited with the temperature of the pcb

[@CBORK27]

Why don't to make the coil push magnet instead of attracting it?

[@leozendo3500]

fun project but not quite scientific. if the goal is to optimize existing design maybe do some research in kinematics. It probably needs to work in resonance mode so add a hall effect sensor and accelerometer. Otherwise completely redesign.

[@jaredf6205]

PCBway must love you lol

[@rezaasaddoor2562]

Perfect

[@esahg5421]

hey how do frogs do it? where is your free energy storage? is the force being absorbed into a shock absorber? isn't it true that in the kangaroo the energy in vs the energy out is extremely radical? therefore kangaroos don't exist. or maybe they storing kinetic energy somewhere?

[@curtisnewton895]

why not using through holes in the pcb, and then some plastic wings around the magnet,to make it cool down

[@ashurean]

Have you seen the videos of the record-breaking jumping robot made by Dr. Elliot Hawkes et al. that was developed a couple years back? Maybe you could draw some inspiration from that

[@ReplicateReality]

You should look at origami as a tool to help the flexible pcbs

[@MrFranklitalien]

hopper bots with a topmounted camera :)

[@stormbreaker932]

maybe use three arms to reduce twisting on the S shaped design?

[@sc0or]

The biggest mystery is who forces you to make the shortest videos possible. Do you think we need to use x0.5 and additionally suppose what was not said?

[@ilco31]

im wondering i this could used in a speaker

[@princedemiterios2488]

Just use tiny smaller magnets to decrease the weight.

[@timothynwanwene4378]

I will like you to simple MAKE PCB PUMP. you may just move fluid around the board or between containers

[@solidacid1337]

I wonder how high you could make it jump if instead of magnets you just used opposing coils.

[@CarlBugeja]

Too weak kzbin.info/www/bejne/jpe5q2yFqd2tr9E

[@youngmonk3801]

12 layer!

[@curtisnewton895]

but how do you earn a living with these ?

[@Jkauppa]

you got milk

[@Jkauppa]

use electromagnet coils, as the magnet

[@Jkauppa]

frog

[@TalsBadKidney]

no

[@polygorg]

forg

[@medienmond]

Stick to your Main Project. I would love to see you Not procastenating with useless springy stuff...