[Explained] Keys of Tubas

[@talonwhite694]

that was one of the cleanest lip trills i have ever heard! bravo!!!

[@LowBrassU]

Thanks! Every once in a while lip trills are really helpful!

[@hafeezaiman2134]

@@LowBrassU can you share how to practice the lip trills, I have a problem to master it

[@LowBrassU]

@@hafeezaiman2134 First off, don't be to preoccupied by the lip trill. Lip trills don't win jobs. In my experience, lip trills take a lot of time to master but I essentially try to play the note in between the two notes. The problem with working on lip trills is that you have to play in the high range.

[@5yearsofLPTA]

2:04 Studio Pango: Polar Bear

[@DonBernhard]

Very informative. I might add that even though range is determined by the player, a bass tuba will make high notes easier to find. In other words, the partials are further away, simply by the fact that the fundamental is higher. As a horn player I know this because I have a double horn, with both an F and a B-flat side. The reason to switch are, as I noted earlier, to separate the partials to help find the note as well as a slight difference is tone. Tuning is also a little different with each side.

[@LowBrassU]

I don't necessarily disagree but I think younger students get so obsessed with the idea that it's "easier" to play high that I may have chosen to omit that information.

[@simonolthenorwegian]

I love when british style brass bands gets recognition and not ignored like it doesnt exist

[@jerrybyers2172]

Good presentation. I'm an old geezer, and am reledated to playing in my church orchestra due to failing eyesight. But at one time, I had 4 tubas, and sometimes played my Eb tuba where it would ordinarily call for an F tuba. Nobody noticed the difference. I still have my 5/4 Eb tuba and my 6/4 CC tuba. I love the sound of both.

[@LowBrassU]

I think us tuba players make the key of tuba more important than it is. Sometimes other brass players don't even know the difference.

[@tesmith47]

Yeah, I love the big boys too!!

[@youtuuba]

This is once of the clearest and best produced coverages on KZbin of the "tuba key" situation. There are far too many videos where some obese guy with a beat up tuba and an awful tone quality, apparently thinking he is a tuba expert, spews uninformed nonsense about anything related to tubas. The only aspect that I thought should have been given more coverage is the reasoning for players to choose one key of tuba over another. And there seems to be a bit of the perpetuation of the general fallacy about how BBb tubas are used in high schools but professionals all switch to CC tubas, which unless somebody stays only in the world of academia or purely in orchestral playing, is just not true. In my own experience and talking to a wide range of professional tubists over the years, the main reason for choosing BBb or CC tuba is which is easiest to play in predominantly flat keys or sharp keys. Most music written for concert/military band is composed/arranged to be in flat key signatures, while a lot of (but hardly most) orchestral music is in sharp key signatures. Some written keys just "lay better" in the fingerings in a BBb tuba or a CC tuba, and the same applies to Eb versus F tubas. Otherwise the one-step pitch difference between them should be insignificant in regard to other factors. Most of the professional 'jobbing' tubists I know, and by this I mean tubists whose main 'gig' is NOT a symphony orchestra, instead playing all sorts of ensembles from polka bands to dance bands, to brass quintets and wedding bands, to playing in professional musical theater pit bands or in the military bands, have both a BBb and a CC tuba, and play whichever makes the most sense for a given gig, OR they mostly play BBb and Eb, and don't even own a CC (and very few of them have ever touched an F tuba). So there is a danger of a 'tuba spokesman' whose experience if primarily in one facet of the musical world making sweeping statements about what all other tubists do. And if you get outside of 'professional' tubists, I suppose that (since it is true that most tuba players are trained early on to play BBb tubas while in school), that if they remain amateurs, and even if they become fine amateur players in excellent bands, quintets, etc; they still play ONLY BBb tubas for the rest of their life. For myself, as a retired professional tubist for over 40 years, I only ever played BBb and Eb tubas. I played in every sort of ensemble, from symphony orchestras to to military bands to sessions on recording studios, as well a both pro bono work with amateur bands of all sorts. I never felt the need to play a CC tuba or an F tuba, and everyone else around me always seemed to be perfectly happy with the sounds I was making in their ensembles, and nobody every asked me what yet tuba I was playing, as long as I could play the notes, in tune and musically, with good tone quality. I have heard that a lot of university tuba professors 'require' incoming tuba students to switch to CC. This seems to me to be nothing more than a ego trip on the part of the professors, and it is reportedly mostly a 'thing' in the United States, not elsewhere. Perhaps there is a presumption that any tuba player coming into university MUST have their sights set on playing professionally in symphony orchestras (good luck with THAT goal, kids!), also perhaps forgetting that there are a LOT more kinds of music that a professional tubist can make a good living doing, where a CC tuba is no kind of an advantage.

[@LowBrassU]

I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I tend to agree with you in some of your points on BBb vs. CC tuba but not all. I think you are right that at the University level (mainly in the United States) there is a large emphasis on switching students from BBb to CC tuba. I think 95% of the time, the key of the music should not dictate the key of tuba. While there are certain passages that lay better on certain keys of tubas, generally speaking that is not enough of a reason to chose one over the other. There are European tubists who play all of the same orchestral literature on BBb and there are players in England same literature on Eb tuba. Ride of the Valkyries comes to mind for that discussion. I think to fully cover the "why" you have to acknowledge the trends throughout the world and not just the US. In my tuba fantasy, I and others would play all keys of tubas in the way that trumpet players do. This is prohibitively expensive as well as impractical. I think the hardest thing with this video for me is that there is so much opinion and perspective attached to the "why". It's still not consistent around the world and it's not consistent from different tuba generations. Tuba is still a young instrument and with that comes traditions that are not as well established. A lot of the decisions of what key to play should probably be based on what you do most but even then it's complicated. Let's take brass quintet for example. To me there is no perfect brass quintet tuba. If you are playing French music like Bozza or maybe music written for the bass trombone in mind, you probably don't want a BBb or a CC. In that scenario I would basically want a medium or small rotor F tuba. On the opposite side, there is plenty of music for brass quintet that features jazz bass lines that were clearly written for a BBb tuba in mind but are generally playable on CC. I think overall a good player should be able to get by on any key of tuba in almost any scenario. That being said if the goal is getting the best product, you could switch keys depending on the passage. At the end of the day to me the player is more important than the instrument! I hope this helps show my thinking on the subject.

[@youtuuba]

@@LowBrassU , thanks for your thoughtful reply to my comment. I think I agree with everything you said.

[@randomticketscratcher8423]

2:03 his rang is nice and it is full sound Beautiful

[@LowBrassU]

Thanks!

[@lovermuzak]

Good video! I just found out about recently about the different keys and this video definitely answered some questions of mine.

[@LowBrassU]

Thanks!

[@paulbadger6912]

Great video! Thanks

[@bobjacobson858]

Thanks for this video. Of course the fundamental pitch of the trumpet is also B-flat, but the note on the printed music is written as C when the B-flat pitch is required (just as is the case with the clarinet). I just started on brass this past year--first on trombone, then trumpet, then euphonium, and now a B-flat tuba. I sometimes make the mistake of pressing the first valve on the euphonium and tuba when I want to play a B-flat, caused by my experience with the trumpet. Therefore, I can sympathize with a tuba player trying to play a C tuba after years of experience with a B-flat! I purposely sought a B-flat tuba because I wanted a contrabass instrument that would play essentially like my euphonium, but the Conn 20J I bought from eBay is almost as big as I am--however, I'm enjoying the challenge!

[@bobjacobson858]

@T S That's a good point. In addition to clarinet (and bass clarinet, also reading treble clef), started string bass in jr high school, so I was already used to bass clef by the time I started trombone and continued on to the other lower brass instruments. The string bass sounds an octave lower than the written note, but music for the tuba typically doesn't. I prefer the 'octave-lower' approach because I tend to play mostly in the lower part of these instruments ranges, and with my vision it's easy to misinterpret a collection of ledger lines below the staff.

[@MichaelFClef]

Excellent. Thank you.

[@LowBrassU]

You are welcome!

[@explosiveexploded]

as a tuba player i can confirm

[@Zeicon117]

This was awesome, can you please make a video explaining the 5th valve of a C or Bb tuba? I am planning to switch to a C tuba and I wouldn’t know what would be considered the “ professional fingerings” for a c tuba or what you could use the 5th valve for. I know it’s used for lower notes I think but I don’t know exactly what notes those may be

[@LowBrassU]

I'm working on a video covering the fifth valve right now!

[@ericclaptonsrobotpilot7276]

5th on a Bb horn is a whole step tuned lower than the 1st valve whole step. It allows you to play certain notes in tune that would otherwise require you to pull 1st slide while playing.

[@ericclaptonsrobotpilot7276]

BBb supremacy! Stop the myth that CC horns are superior. Many Euro orchestras never stopped using them.

[@johnsmuth5062]

OK, slightly confused. I play an E flat tuba in a brass band (treble clef) and use the same tuba in orchestra reading the bass clef music in C and transposing it to treble and adding 3 sharps. Question is, thinking of buying a C tuba for orchestra and learning to read bass clef faster. Is the fingering the same?? If i was to use the C tuba in a brass band to play the B flat part, what do i do to play the b flat part on a C tuba? Would i read it up 1 and a half notes? For example, an A in treble clef B flat part. What note would i play on a C tuba? Would it be a C on open fingering?

[@LowBrassU]

I did not really cover this in my video as brass band is not a focal point in the United States. These concepts of transposition are simple yet confusing and to some extent are a matter of perspective. First off, I do not recommend thinking about transposition when playing in bass clef. I realize that the trick of addimg three sharps does work because the notes in bass clef or Eb treble are placed in the same spot relative to the staff lines. Let's take a look at an example. To play the second lowest C on the piano: With an Eb tuba reading an Eb treble part this note is a low A (two ledger lines below the staff) fingered 1&2. With a Bb tuba playing a Bb treble part, this note is a D (right below the staff) fingered 1&3 or 4. With a CC tuba playing a Bass clef part (all bass clef parts are concert pitch) this note is a C (two ledger lines below the staff which is the same location as the Eb example) fingered open. In your case of playing a CC tuba with a Bb part this note would be a D fingered open on the CC tuba. My perspective is distinctly American as I do not play in a brass band. I personally would not really recommend playing a CC in brass band because of this complexity and the likelihood of pitch issues. I hope this helps, I usually explain transposition from the other perspective.

[@johnsmuth5062]

@@LowBrassU thank you for your reply. CC to BB very tricky methinks!!

[@LowBrassU]

@@johnsmuth5062 No problem! I would agree you would be adding a layer of complexity.

[@interinx4551]

I don't have a tuba right now, I only can play my Tuba at school, is there some practise to keep my lip steminar good?

[@LowBrassU]

Not having a tuba is obviously not ideal but it's something that many have to deal with. I first recommend singing everything that you are working on.

[@raw-b6658]

If I was trying to play funk where I’m the leader, do you think an Eb would be the best since it has both high and low capabilities? Curious cuz I’m doing research into them right now but they are pretty pricey. Bb tuba is what I know but it’s to big for what I’m thinking.

[@LowBrassU]

A lot of people consider Eb to be a jack of all trades and a master of none which aligns with what you are suggesting. Sometimes it not necessarily the key but also the size. A small CC or BBb may work better than a large version of the same key. Also, I would probably recommend a large Eb or F if you wanted a bass tuba.

[@raw-b6658]

@@LowBrassU I was just looking at the 3 valve Eb besson model online. You think that is too small? 1077 model

[@zachlarakers140]

I know I'm a bit late, but I wanted to ask if an open, no valve fingering on the c tuba was a concert c, like how it is for the b flat.

[@parkerburkey86]

Correct

[@LowBrassU]

Yes, essentially all fingerings are shifted by a whole step.

[@zachlarakers140]

@@LowBrassU Thanks, thats what I suspected but I had no idea.

[@MichaelSmith-zl4jc]

As someone who plays Bb tuba can i not just read Bb tuba music and play it on a C tuba with the same fingering or is a concert Bb fingered different on a C tuba?

[@LowBrassU]

Generally speaking (in the United States) all tuba music is in concert pitch. I would argue that you are not playing Bb tuba music and that you are just reading tuba music in general. You would not play off of a different part but rather need to use different fingerings to play the same note. For example, to play a Bb on C tuba you would need to use the first valve. It sounds complicated to use all new fingerings but it really just takes a period of time to switch over.

[@pikachuchujelly7628]

What key are typical concert band tuba parts written in? Is it B flat or C?

[@LowBrassU]

So, while we refer to these tubas as being a BBb or CC tuba they actually both still read at concert pitch. Essentially, the parts don’t change but depending on which key of instrument the player has, they need to use different fingerings. This sounds more complex than it is because in a concert band setting you are likely on the same key of tuba for many years.

[@lethalweeaboo2239]

The only people I know that play e flat tuba in the US are either from Europe, euphonium players, or Pat Sheridan.

[@LowBrassU]

There are a few more and it seems that the number is growing but F tuba is still more common in the US certainly.

[@ngiamxinghao]

And of course Oystein!

[@counterfit5]

@@ngiamxinghao my father’s got a Norwegian Star. What a great horn.

[@Crymzon1980]

Also Eb Tubas (as well as BBb Tubas ) are widely used in Salvation Army Brass Bands

[@tallmexican3208]

So a c tuba would be like reading treble clef in bass?

[@ericclaptonsrobotpilot7276]

No. It’s just tuned a whole step higher than a Bb horn, so instead of playing a Bb (below the staff) with no valves pressed a C would sound instead of a Bb. All the fingerings are a whole step off. Same goes for Eb and F horns, which are tuned even higher.

[@interinx4551]

Another question, which tuba you recommend for beginners, preferably a B type

[@LowBrassU]

That's a tricky question. Even low quality tubas are expensive. I generally recommend dealing with whatever school tuba you have until you're at least looking for a step-up instrument.

[@interinx4551]

@@LowBrassU Thanks, I found what type my school is using the ybb 841 Yamaha tuba, what is your opinion on it?

[@LowBrassU]

@@interinx4551 I've heard great sounds from that tuba with the right player. It's always about the player first. That being said there are better tubas at that price point for me but keep in mind that is still a $10k instrument.

[@interinx4551]

@@LowBrassU Thanks for your opinion I might buy one

[@tesmith47]

Is the B-flat the same as the DOUBLE BFLAT

[@LowBrassU]

Essentially yes. How we talk about these instruments isn’t always consistent but generally BBb and Bb tuba are referring to the same thing. It’s possible that someone means a tenor tuba (euphonium) when they say single Bb tuba but that’s almost never my assumption.

[@massmanute]

For a euphonium player who wants to add tuba as a second instrument would an Eb compensating tuba be a good choice? This would be for an amateur player who does not aspire to ever have a professional career as a musician.

[@LowBrassU]

If you are looking for the easiest transition it may be an OK option. A traditional 3+1 compensating Eb has some compromises that are hard to accept for me with control of pitch but they are still usable.

[@massmanute]

@@LowBrassU Thanks for the input.

[@LowBrassU]

@@massmanute No problem! To make my point more clear, I don't have a problem with Eb tubas or compensating tubas. It's more of an issue of top action valves where it is hard to manipulate the slides while playing.

[@youtuuba]

As a euphonium is a Bb instrument, adding a BBb tuba to a the euph player's repertoire should be the simplest, no new fingering to learn, everything is just offset by one octave.

[@interinx4551]

how do you know that the tuba have different fingerings

[@LowBrassU]

You know which fingerings to use based off of the open notes or just having the knowledge of what key the instrument is in. A CC tuba has open notes of C, C, G, C, E, G... Etc. A BBb tuba has open notes of Bb, Bb, F, Bb, D, F. These are the same sequence of notes but start on the key of the instrument.

[@kittybuilderbunch7906]

@@LowBrassU So tubas in different keys have different fingerings based off their keys?

[@LowBrassU]

@@kittybuilderbunch7906 Yep! Once you get used to it you don’t really think about it. For me personally I have spent so much time playing C, F and Bb that I can switch fairly easily. Maybe my sight reading is worse on Bb because I don’t play that as much. I don’t currently have access to an Eb so that takes the most brain power. I can play simple music on Eb fairly easily but harder stuff would take practice just because I have spent less time using those fingerings. Anyone can learn a different key tuba with time but it generally takes some amount of time.

[@camthesaxman3387]

Why not start people on a C tuba from the very beginning? The only use I see for a Bb tuba is to read Bb treble clef parts (common in British brass band arrangements).

[@LowBrassU]

That’s a good question and I think the answer is that it would be harder to switch students from one brass instrument to another. It would make things complicated.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

There's also a G Tuba & even an A Tuba

[@LowBrassU]

Any key can be made with a blow torch and a dream! I chose to only include the standard keys that are commercially available. A G bugle for marching I guess could have been included.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

@@LowBrassU The G Contrabass Bugle is a True G Tuba. I just got a new B Natural Tuba because one Orchestra is now a Special "Tune up a Half Step Orchestra" where all their instruments have been tuned up a half step.