Explaining Navi 5700 XT Junction Temperature | 110°C is Not "Expected"

[@GamersNexus]

Guys, a lot of you are posting memes and don't seem to be listening to the content, and that's very disappointing. We said in this content that Junction temperature exposure is fantastic and needs to continue, but that bad coolers are responsible for high junction temperature (not the mere exposure of it). Sapphire's cooler demonstrates well that it can be kept in the 80s and doesn't need to be "expected" at 110C. Please listen to the actual content that we invest time into rather than racing to be first to post some misleading and frankly stupid meme about housefires.

[@bats4jm644]

meh

[@LeftJoystick]

Could this higher junction temp be used to allow this card to be run with something like a passive cooler? Obviously the card will not be performing at max capability, but will it still be an upgrade over a passively cooled RX 580 (for example)?

[@aamon6393]

the gamer community is not the epitome of intelligence Steve. this community is dark and regressive at times and has brand paid AstroTurfers

[@Chakotay2222]

Mine reference 5700 xt wont even run on stock fan curve. I keep all games on ultra tho. Far cry 5 runs half a minute or less before pc crash. Metro exodus on ultra crashes in like 10 sec or less. Running at 1080p

[@Vasharan]

3:35 AMD's statement explicitly states that there are multiple sensors for TJunction on the chip, so I find it strange that you would state that your testing is proof that the cards you've tested are not hitting 110C. Do we know how the temperature reporting for TJunction works on AMD cards and software? Is the reported value averaged over multiple sensors, or does it report peak TJunction? Over what timeframe do they time average? Just like with PL1 & PL2 on intel CPUs, we could be seeing very short, instantaneous peaks on the GPU without ever coming close to a sustained 110C TJunction, or even showing up on monitoring software as reaching 110C. Just something to think about.

[@olivermaldar359]

TLDR - there is a very big difference between "the silicon can handle it and the cooler is shit!". That's it for the video. :) Thanks for watching. Steve being a rebel tech jesus as always. :D

[@GamersNexus]

Perfect TLDR.

[@MissedMessages]

But you don't have steve's charm :( I prefer the 22 minutes video xD

[@CHICKENmcNUGGIESMydude]

Stfu oliver hahahahahahahhahahahaha jk

[@Rocky-bz8wr]

The cooler works as intended as long as you do not try to mess with it and the fans. Is it a good cooler no it is just average and could have been better is it just shit no not really since it cools the card if you don't try to make it 40db quiet. Are there better coolers oh hell yea there is for sure.

[@MissedMessages]

@@Rocky-bz8wr I don't think there is something worse than a blower cooler, like ever.

[@agenericaccount3935]

The internet has both the shortest and longest memory simultaneously.

[@GamersNexus]

Schrodinger's forum post.

[@shaneeslick]

it forgets Correct information & Remembers the Lies & any Hacked Nude Photos

[@DrathVader]

I still remember all of the FX5800 Ultra memes

[@glorious240fps6]

It forgets AMD's deceiving practices but remembers Nvidia's.

[@kumbandit]

@@glorious240fps6 such as?

[@theSl33p3r62]

lol 16:56 "it's not like the cards have mics in them...yet"

[@shaneeslick]

Instead of Mike I would rather they come with a Buildzoid in them 😁

[@excellingsoul]

Imagine buying AMD products just to burn down your house.

[@BitterCynical]

What a missed opportunity to spy on all these horrible gamers who become violent and go shoot people because of violence causing video games. Also Fakebook, Google or some other data hoarder corp would pay for yet more mics to listen through.

[@Megalomaniakaal]

It's fine, most people have an electromagnet connected to their computer, be it a purpose designed mic, or a speaker of some type(which can totally be used as a worse mic as well). kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnfPdn6Oht-VapI

[@AM-dc7pv]

@@Megalomaniakaal Technically, you don't need to have an electromagnetic driver or purpose-designed/specific device to eavesdrop. You can maliciously program devices, or rather, reconfigure devices to use anything embedded to record and relay nearby sound by utilizing IC coils, etc. The only thing it really needs is a storage for data or data transmission medium, be it a simple LED that was originally intended as turning on when device powered on but used to relay data via morse code or ethernet/internet connection like a fax machine or printer that you can get the data from. Kinda eye opening that something as simple as your IoT coffee maker or even a paper shredder can be used to eavesdrop audio. There's actually a bunch of companies that specialize in this type of AcousInt amongst its intel gathering modality. Edit: Thinking back on this, I don't believe a transmission avenue is actually needed as I think I recall that one of the companies or subject matter experts reconfigured programming of a device to pulse electricity through IC turning it into a short wave radio to relay data. Really, the only thing needed is opportunity to insert the malware, or whatever, programming that is needed (i.e. infil/insertion vector).

[@alexc3504]

I absolutely love that "if I drop this under LN2 i could clock this to infinite" statement. 10/10

[@AM-dc7pv]

Ha ha, yes, and if power is a problem, then we can hook it up to those free energy reddit guys' solution for unlimited power...i.e. a cat with a buttered slice of bread strapped to it's back. Lol, this is why I don't bother with giving attention to people that don't have legitimacy to their fervor or most vents and crap that's posted on places like reddit or YT comment sections. Though, sometimes, a good laugh is a good laugh. 🤪

[@andreasosowski7302]

@@AM-dc7pv yes that was really badassss :D

[@BillyOfTea]

To Infinity And Beyond!!!! lolz

[@BootSequence]

That gpu tower makes me feel uneasy.

[@lynx5327]

big facts

[@faffabout9412]

That is not by accident lol, Steve trolling us

[@zoravar.k7904]

@@faffabout9412 i feel like he's trolling linus

[@faffabout9412]

@@zoravar.k7904 good point lol

[@Megalomaniakaal]

Tower? All I saw was a gpu sandwitch...

[@ROCKSWOT]

GN doing great work here. It is interesting to learn new stuff and it's great that GN is willing to put energy into explaining things well. Thanks GN!

[@shadowr2d2]

Every time they post a video. It is an educational thing. They will tell you the straight TRUTH . You may, or may not like it. But don't argue with it. Just for the sake of it. Look into things first. Than you can make your statement. In the 3 years I have been following. I have learned a wealth of information. It will make me a better *(PC Builder, & Tech Enthusiast) as well. Thank you all for your hard work. P.S. - Christmas 🎄time I will be getting a *(Gamers Nexus Toolkit, Mod Matt, & T-Shirt). To do my part as a follower. To support this Tech Channel. THX U. 💯🎛🖥📚🔧🧯.

[@SDAspra]

It's such a poor excuse for slapping on a cheap and nasty cooler. Thanks for calling it out Steve

[@TheCountess666]

It has exactly the same thermal performance that every other reference cooler for the last 5 years has had: all of them keep the GPU they are designed for at around 80 degree's.

[@LukjoJak]

Nvidia did it too for 900 and 1000 series,runningat 85 and 87 respective edge temps,they got a lot of shit for it,probably running at junction speed of over 100C aswell but its hidden,lets hope AMD learns their lesson too,but it may be a faulty cooler design,its a lot better then nvidia's

[@blodstainer]

@@TheCountess666 that's really not true, look at Nvidia, 700, 900, 10 and 20 series reference coolers do. And look at Vega, RX 480 and thr 5700 stands out

[@TheCountess666]

@@blodstainer anandtech reviewed the 2070 super as being 75 degrees while gaming with the reference cooler. Not exactly a world of difference is it? Edit: They also show both the GTX1070 and the gtx980 being around 80 degree's C. And the RX580 was 75 degree's www.anandtech.com/show/14618/the-amd-radeon-rx-5700-xt-rx-5700-review/15 In fact nearly all the cards anandtech compares the 5700xt with are either 75 or 80 degree's with their reference cooler.

[@TheCountess666]

@ugaaa5 ooow its 82 instead of 80. My whole argument is clearly out the window. o wait, that doesn't change a thing.

[@WayStedYou]

If AMD left it called hotspot people might actually understand what it is measuring more easily.

[@anasevi9456]

too true, and at any rate. Even a reference blower 5700xt will drop 5-10c just by getting rid of those rotten thermal pads. But then again, customers shouldn't have to fix a flawed cooler. regardless of what silicon will tolerate, as seen with the GDDR6 space invader drama for Turing; solder joints won't handle over 100c for long.

[@bdhale34]

@@anasevi9456 I know of one Gigabyte Radeon HD 4670 that always games at or above 113c and always has.. 6 years it was crossfired with another exactly like it that ran just as hot.. my buddy is still using one of them, either the one I gave him or his died a couple months ago, daily to this day and it still runs that hot.. tell me again what solder joints can and can not handle. Or is going on 11 years not long?

[@TheCountess666]

Tjunction is the correct technical name, and has been used in the industry for years. Intel has many CPU's out with a Tjmax temperatuer of 105 degree's. yet nobody's raised a fit over that.

[@XFourty7]

Junction makes more sense, considering "TJ Max" means "Thermal Junction Maximum Temperature". If companies, especially tech companies keep the mentality of "having things make more sense for people who don't understand them" won't work well, it's kinda why we're at the point of thinking it needs to be called "Hot spot" ;P

[@TheCountess666]

@@anasevi9456 The solder joints never get over 100 degree's. That the whole point. Tjunction temperature exist only within the DIE, briefly, and are very local. the GPU as a whole is the same roughly 80 degree's that all high end GPU's with a reference cooler have been since forever.

[@jayhartbarger2793]

you are just not with modern times. When apple engineers their phone bad, it is because you are holding it wrong. When your oled tv gets burn in, it is because you are watching tv wrong. When your battery overheats it is because you are using your unit too much. Wow, get with it.

[@Tallnerdyguy]

Nice

[@msnl_]

Yeah a lot of people's Note 7 exploded. They're just using it wrong.

[@BleedForTheWorld]

Is this post a joke or is it serious? Because I've hearing the accusation over OLED burn it due to "wrongful usage".

[@jayhartbarger2793]

@@BleedForTheWorld yes, I meant it as sarcasm. Oleds do burn in. They require being used differently than any other type of tv. Forget the days when you could just watch the tv.

[@Tallnerdyguy]

@@jayhartbarger2793 jeez, i thought it was witty and sarcastic, people get offended because, well....you know

[@brandonv8721]

On consumer grade electronics I'd be more worried about the glass transition temp of the PCB and Delta temp over Delta time as CTE mismatch generally kills more electronics than time at temp unless electrolytic caps were pushed to the limit.

[@jakegarrett8109]

Have you seen zombie Epower mods? You can use a blowtorch to solder plates of copper to the circuit board rails and the PCB layers don’t give out... A freaken blowtorch! That’s not some wimpy little soldering, it’s a blowtorch! You could say, cyclic thermal fatigue of the BGA solder (as that does happen and kills lots of cards), but respectively this card is only like 80c, which is cooler than a stock Titan Xp for example. So at 80c like you’re used to thinking about, that’s not very hot... (when I run cards to 115c package temp, it would be showing like 145c if calculated with these hot spot sensors since normal cards don’t have this). I have never seen PCB damage except for areas right next to melted and burned components, even then it was only superficial surface damage and wouldn’t be an issue for repair.

[@motionmayfire]

@@jakegarrett8109 can you fellas speak in English please

[@jakegarrett8109]

@@motionmayfire sorry, it's unfortunately a mix of PC and engineering. It's broken down about as simple as possible (kind of like explaining quantum mechanics, sure it can be simplified to an extent, but it still becomes quite lengthy even in layman's terms, which would be the case for this conversation). You can Google most of the acronyms like BGA is Ball Grid Array, it's the chip mounting solution that connects the GPU die core to the PCB (printed circuit board). But then you still need to look up the difference between package temp vs other thermocouple measuring areas, so if you don't understand those principals it will become a rabbit hole. It's kind of like explaining how rainbows are formed to a kid for the first time (it's pretty cool physics, so my answer isn't just "humidity and light diffraction" like some parents would say, because as a kid I know I'd ask "but why the curve, why the colors always in the same orientation, why some colors more dominant"), it just depends how much you care to dig into it, but if you do it's fun so happy searching!

[@mushroomsamba82]

"not normal" is also what the school psychologist wrote in my file

[@gunner75171]

I'm sure that's common with all of us computer hardware autists.

[@KyleReynaert]

@@gunner75171 nah, they caught him jerking off inside a locker. its fair game.

[@warblesnow7925]

Were here for you buddy

[@DarkLinkAD]

Mine wrote "The new normal, leaving wife and kids"

[@mushroomsamba82]

@@warblesnow7925 thanks brother

[@nickspence8897]

Never forget the reference r9 290/x cards they hit 90-100c mine didnt last a year did get a free tri x out of it though good times.

[@jakegarrett8109]

They probably had hotspot temps of like 130-140c if we are comparing.

[@StaelTek]

i have used 4 R9 290's and no one hit above 94c, so if you are running 100c, it is not the cards fault. it is about fan speed, overclocking and case cooling.

[@sadlerbw9]

My reference R9 290X spent years ramping up to 95c every time I played a game. Eventually I put a 120mm CLC cooler on it and dropped temps down to 70-75c max. The card didn’t overclocking it’s self to get back to 95c, but it did stop dropping clocks, and give me some more headroom to OC. I’m pretty sure these 5700s work almost the exact same way, down to the same 95c edge temp. From my experience, when the card was NOT running at 95c, I had smoother gameplay and less glitches. Plus, it didn’t sound like there was a jet engine test stand in my room! I’d stake a non-reference cooler over that stupid blower any day.

[@TrueMegaManiac]

My biggest takeaway. "Just to be clear, there is a very big difference between "Silicon can handle it" and "Cooler is shit""

[@bdhale34]

Had a 4670 for years.. cooler was shit.. 113c was not an uncommon gaming temperature after I replaced it and gave it to a friend who also had one it was crossfired both running at those insane temperatures for about 6 years before one of them finally gave up and died while the other is still chugging on Diablo III and other lighter games to this very day. if RTG says card will run as expected at 110c they ain't fucking around.

[@Oliver-bn7jt]

@@bdhale34 still, to have a gpu at a temperature above the boiling point for hours at a time is nuts for the company to promote

[@konigdiamant5080]

That's true but in my opinion a red devil 5700xt doesnt have a bad cooler. Still ca. 90°C junction

[@konigdiamant5080]

Well at least at normal fan settings. If i'm using my custom ones it's getting loud and making the card pretty much not cooler at all. It's just staying longer cooler but in the end it has maybe 1°C less

[@antreaskonstantinou8585]

@@konigdiamant5080 same with mine (3 fan version) no matter how hard i push it i still cant get it over 90°C and fan speed is like at 40%

[@TheCgOrion]

I couldn't care less what they allow or expect. I expect a good cooling solution, and the blower style is not one. The AIB cards are FAR superior. Whether or not it will damage the card is all well and good. I also prefer the majority of the sound to come out of the speakers, and not the cooler. As far as your explanation, you said it several times, to an adequate degree. You've more than done your job on this topic. There's only so much you can yell from the rooftops. I feel and share your frustration. I'm surprised your face wasn't blue by the end.

[@TheCgOrion]

@Brad Viviviyal I thought the partner cards were non reference board designs (Devil having 10 phase), so they were considered AIB. I was under the impression that reference board vs a redesign determined it. So what is the distinction?

[@Felix-ve9hs]

Remember the Core2Quad that had a Tjmax of 70°C because they only had a Edge Temperature?

[@bdhale34]

It is also 70c on the lynnfield core i7 chips.

[@TheCountess666]

intel has plenty of CPU's out with a TJmax of 105 degree's.

[@Felix-ve9hs]

@@TheCountess666 and Apple takes full advantage out of it - aka. baked apple

[@fie1329]

@@Felix-ve9hs yeah, the difference between "the silicon can handle it and the coller is shit" becomes obvious here. MacBooks are the perfect example to get some points of the video across. Most of the time if temperatures are high, it's a bad cooler or bad case or both.

[@Felix-ve9hs]

@@fie1329 compared to the Intel Pentium 4 (very high heat density) or the Radeon R9 290X (very high power consumption) the RX 5700 XT just needs a decent cooler :^)

[@Kingteranas]

Sure, my body can handle ambient temperatures of 90+F and 100% humidity. That doesn't mean i'm comfortable with it being that way

[@rumham7631]

Stay out of Florida then

[@Kingteranas]

@@rumham7631 ye I'm in Texas, I know that feeling all too much

[@frshunter]

As an owner of Vega 56 Red Dragon keeping the Hot spot lower than "acceptable" is crucial to getting great results from under clocking. The difference between vrm temps and hot spots can be upwards to 20c and better efficiency and consistent sustainable speed is rewarded by keeping the hot spots down. So Steve isn't kidding or splitting hairs!

[@chrisstockton7153]

Crazy how much your subscriber total has Ryzen over the past couple years. Pretty impressive, I like how in depth your analysis of components go. Thanks for the awesome content

[@sonsoffishes1]

Thanks so much for this explanation. I like how you don't throw out anecdotal information, you back up your conclusions with testing and data. This is key for me in believing what I am seeing. Honestly, in every issue I come up against, I seem to often find my answers in a video you've made. Keep it up guys!

[@CheffBryan]

Sounds like we should keep this video on hand, for when people say 110 is expected in blanket statements.

[@TheCountess666]

keep it around for when people claim 'AMD GPU's operate at 110 degree's!' you'll get FAR more use out of it.

[@Asghaad]

well going from the Radeon VII i own the Junction is +- 30 degrees above normal temperature... so 80 degrees normal if Junction was at 110... now if company told you "The GPU hitting 80 degrees is normal and expected" would you be throwing a fit like this or go "mkay, maybe ill buy a better cooler" ... people are losing theyr shit because its "oh my god frying at 110 degrees" meanwhile they have theyr current GPU sitting in mATX case with improper cooling hitting close to 90 degrees with Junction around 120 degrees and think "all is fine its below recommended temperature" ...

[@sickbrain]

@@Asghaad I'm mostly just amused by BS statement that GPU will be grabbing clocks until it hits 110 degrees.

[@Asghaad]

@@sickbrain its PR statement ... they know at this point people who do not understand this arent going to get this explained properly to them so the PR bullshit takes the place to do damage control... that statement is saying to uneducated "dont worry it wont affect your cards performance" which isnt that far from the truth yeah for people in the know its bullshit but for those people there shouldnt be the need there to defend the junction temperature anyway. its classic case of damned if you do and damned if you dont

[@toaster_bloke9999]

Firstly, my condolences you brought the Radeon VII. Secondly, I wouldn't be okay with my graphics card hitting 80c under normal load at all, I aim for the high 60's/very low 70's at a push. Finally, the Vega 56 I had was about 14-15c between hotspot and normal temperature on the gpu, so even if it was at 80c (which is never has been and never will), that's a hotspot temperature of about 95c, definitely not good but also not the 110c that this awful stock cooler gives you.

[@BlitzShott]

/r/amd calling Steve too critical of AMD HAHAHA. Always keeping it real GN, love you guys.

[@browtfwhydoineedone]

What a shocker that the sub with a combined braincell count of 7 is dickriding AMD as usual.

[@branchprediction9923]

@@browtfwhydoineedone dude, u misunderstood the whole subreddit. Nothing like that there

[@AswollAlpaca]

@@browtfwhydoineedone literally called /r/amd. They obviously ride it hard. Thing is with amd fan boys is they ride amd much harder and longer than the Intel ones.

[@1toW4mB0to9]

@@AswollAlpaca not really... both sides have gaping assholes where you could lose a basketball in

[@branchprediction9923]

@@AswollAlpaca the majority of r/amd is not fanboying, only realtalk, testing and facts and that kind of stuff. I recently joined the subreddit and I've not seen any fanboying. But when i checked out r/nvidia there were some people who apparently 'loved' dlss. Right ok

[@iconoclast485]

Lmao put the gpu on ln2 and our boost clocks would be infinity. I for real laughed on that one. Get em steve.

[@AbbasDalal1000]

years later this holds true, with my 6800xt hitting 110 at hotspot, i almost thought it was ok until i opened the gpu

[@PwnyPony]

Any GPU with a stock cooler reaching temps that cause it to thermal throttle should be undervolted.

[@xMooD1]

AMD: we know how our cards work Steve: hold my temperature probe..

[@eoinkenny3188]

Amd engineers: We specced the gpu chip to operate up to 110°C. AMD media: The card is within specs at 110°C Internet Hive mind: Duurr...... 110° is gud

[@captainkittens506]

@@eoinkenny3188 Steve literally said the blower cooler keeps temps well under 110c when not crippled but then he software cripples the card to stop progressive cooling at 40dB then he gets upset that thermals are above comfort level. There is a massive flaw here, 40dB in an open air test bench is unfair (open air bench is loud to begin with and not what most consumers use as their day to day rig), test that stuff in a closed case where 40dB would result in higher fan speeds. 2nd GamersNexus is obviously trying to push for "noise-normalized thermals" to become a standard of testing for all outlets to use and really blowing this out of proportion, likely to garner more attention for their channel. 3rd AMD addressed the issue of using a blower style cooler on reference models because this gives the most consistent result across all types of builds, including low air flow or no airflow cases like mini-ITX where an axial design would literally dump heat back into it's intake. Steve is jumping to conclusions that AMD is trying to save face for using a blower style cooler, when they already stated they would have done that but choose to go the safe route for a broader audience. Really suspect GamersNexus is just trying to drum attention for their "Noise-Normalized Thermals" and to their channel in general.

[@eoinkenny3188]

@@captainkittens506 My only point was that amd engineers probably designed their chip to operate at up to 110 in a worse case scenario. Their media department then misrepresented this info and then the Internet went and apparently misrepresented it again.

[@adnan4688]

I respect this video. People don't understand this is not against AMD or pro nVidia. This is just real, give us a better cooler on a reference card end of story. I bought 5700xt reference,it is working fine,but it could have been more quiet and cool.

[@Asghaad]

only reason i would buy reference blower card is to slap waterblock on it ... why the hell is noone selling cards WITHOUT coolers for the watercooling market is beyond me- easier packaging, lower production cost, lower transport cost per unit and certainly less waste... what the hell am i supposed to do with the cooler from my Radeon VII now for example ...

[@adnan4688]

@@Asghaad I bought the reference card when they came out,I couldn't wait anymore. My 1080ti died 4months ago and I was waiting for Navi long enough. I am not sorry I bought it in any way, it's still a great card,only loud sometimes. AIB cards do get a frame or two more from time to time tough.

[@Asghaad]

@@adnan4688 well id advise you to invest in watercooling then, the silence is worth the cost ... if you are concerned with leaks just stick with FLEXIBLE tubing and use proper compression fittings.

[@odd6554]

Did you undervolt your 5700xt? Should be quieter and cooler once undervolted.

[@adnan4688]

@@Asghaad Maybe later on,right now I have more important things on my mind when it comes to finances. Need to deal with them first TBH.

[@DanitoxMC]

The best explanation and examples, my Sapphire pulse 6600, keeps under 80° playing intense, so im ok with that!

[@Marwan_Realtor]

my rx5700xt when i play warzone 2 my tempr get 70 to73 is this have problem?

[@OneBiOzZ]

Silicon transistors have curves over how much current they can pass with a given temperature, typically that current is 0 at around 175c and causes instant failure, but silicon will degrade at high temperature i have had silicon mosfets in power inverters i feel fine running at 100c but when things start approaching 120c i start reducing the estimated lifespan of the product, i would be very cautious designing a product that runs at 110c unless you can get the temperature of every single transistor on that die if you expect it to last for years

[@01eocoe10]

Your note about putting on an LN2 pot and getting infinite clocks was really funny, but also helped me understand what you were saying a lot better. Cards do not simply boost clocks until they hit their temp max.

[@katerwhall1865]

This is why I'm here. on top of the curve and doing extensive research. thanks.

[@XtergoBlue]

The world has seen the first practical 7nm card, thermal density is much more. Nvidia doesn't reveal junction temps but is probably 80-90 too.

[@yipingcuiv]

The way I see it, as long as the clock boosts as high as expected and the lifespan of the card is not significantly reduced, they can call it normal. The word “expected” is definitely misleading however. I mean, yeah, the cooler is bad, but most users are more worried about not getting the performance the card should deliver or high temps breaking the card. If neither is the case, one certainly don’t have to worry too much.

[@iBoolGuy]

Well here's my issue now, and I wish I could get help here, or info! I recently purchased a 5700 XT, and I've waited very long for the MSI Gaming X model, the card is insane, I've never seen a bulkier card, IRL or on the internet, the card is massive, it's a 3 PCIe slot, and I think it's the longest card you can find. I've kept up with Steve from Hardware Unboxed, reviewing every 5700 XT AIB model, and the MSI Gaming X model was the best by a huge margin, when it comes to cooling and temps of course. He runs an hour test of F1 2019, and compare temps between all models. Most models would set on around 70-75C temps, with an average fan speeds of 2100RPM. Until he tried the Gaming X model, it ran for an hour, max temp (not junction) being 68C, and the fans spinning at around 1300RPM, and according to his testing, it operated at 40dBA's.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2bVc6pmapikhNk - Hardware Unboxed review of the 5700 XT MSI Gaming X I received the card, plugged it in, updated my drivers, and I was idling at 75C.... right now, watching the video and writing this, GPU temp is 74C, and GPU Junc. temp is 76C. The fans are on ZERO RPM tho, which is the very reason why I wanted a beefy cooler, I was sick of my vanilla Vega 64 screaming at 4900RPM. I go to Apex Legends, max out settings, and play a match, leaving the driver and GPU settings at absolute stock settings, the junc. temp rapidly reaches 110C, and GPU temp reaches around 95C, with enough time, GPU temp goes up to 100C. At that situation, the automatic GPU settings seem not to kick the fans off for whatever reason. The overlay settings would say 0RPM, and the fans don't seem to physically spin. So, after adjusting the fan curve, I can run at around 75C in-game, and around 90C junc temp, but...... with 2800RPM fans.... I'm researching trying to figure out what the heck is going on, and ended up here, but even Steve here, with the Sapphire card, is hitting reasonable temps..... I simply refuse to idle on 75C, or see "110C" anywhere on my screen..... this is just mind-boggling and I'm confused.

[@ganakas9586]

yea man it ticked me off too seeing it hit 78 C in my system , prior to this I had the fastest "doable" 1660TI setup in the states from what I could tell from all the benchmark sites (userbenchmark etc) I ran that card at 2185 (core clock AVERAGE

[@Pheatrix]

An example for non-pc-enthusiasts of this same behaviour would be cars: Running your engine at 7.500 RPM might be within spec and the engine can handle it, but it is far from fine. The same goes with the Junction Temperature. Also: In both cases lower is generally better. At least up to a certain point.

[@mmm-jn8fr]

AMD: 110c not great, not terrible

[@vaeloreonari7516]

It would be very interesting to see a vid showing some Nvidia Junction temps for comparison, to clear up the confusion, and have a better perspective on what is normal.

[@Takamorisan1]

I was concerned with the junction temperature, I typed junction temperature and this video pop up with even my GPU model in the description , nice video man, thanks.

[@scooter4196]

Hey GN, Thanks for clarifying this. I read the blog post and was like, "This sounds like a load of barnacles." You confirmed that. Thanks :) Love your content!

[@ndr2q]

AMD, can you please just STOP using these blower cooler designs for your reference cards? Please? I love you guys ... but it’s 2019 and nobody wants these.

[@Fritzsch82]

agreed. just sell them without a cooler or sth. no one will use it anyway. it will be replaced with a waterblock or aftermarket cooler anyway

[@React2Quick]

Just switch to dual axial fan coolers similar to how Nvidia did with the 20 series. No one wants a blower style cooler.

[@ifyouwantmoneythengivemeev8094]

@@React2Quick in very specific circumstances blower coolers would produce better results (no case air flow is one of them) but those are far and few between.

[@twistednemo]

@@React2Quick Actually, there might be takers for the blower design. A super compact mini ITX build might benefit from a blower style cooler where ventilation is at a premium and it would help to exhaust all of the GPU heat directly outside instead of inside the cabinet. However, I admit that this is a very specific and rare use case. Many compact builds work well with axial fan GPU coolers. If I was out to buy the 5700 or the XT, I would pick up a 2 or 3 axial fan model. But what I wanna know is, why can't a blower type cooler be engineered to perform well? Why can't the high pressure advantage of the centrifugal fan be leveraged by a higher fin density heat sink to offset the lower air flow volume? Why do blower cards have to be bad?

[@twistednemo]

@@ifyouwantmoneythengivemeev8094 Spot on.

[@aqwplayer222]

Thank you for this, you continue to be a extremely reliable source and back all your statements up with fair testing along with a fantastic explanation. Something about this video screams a passion for tech and it's great to see.

[@ryudroidable]

Got strix 5700, tune the fan curve a bit. Now junction is at 70-82 degree with 51-53 DBA Thanks for this video, inspired me to move the fan curve a bit

[@BenHighley]

You said "The silicon can handle it, but it's still too hot" several times. But how do you determine what is "too hot"? I could just as easily say that the sapphire card is "too hot even though the silicon can handle it" because a water cooler proves it could run cooler.

[@angolin9352]

Hotter chips don't last as long. Regularly running at temperatures just barely within spec might last you 3 years, but I would give worse odds on a 5-year upgrade cycle. Or, if you wanted to keep that system around and running a legacy Windows OS for compatibility reasons (try playing Embodiment of the Scarlet Devil, Civilization 4, or actually a lot of legacy games/software with or without DRM on Windows 10), you may as well kiss your chance of that machine running for 7-10 years or more goodbye.

[@alexcrouse]

110°C is safe. Expected is not the correct word.

[@abhijitthakur60]

Really amd should market their card as graphic card cum oven bake steam or play games all in one

[@BM1620]

The GPU will function at 110c, but it isn't optimal, far from it. I sense a certain degree of damage control in their statements. Bottom line, your way better off with a partner card containing a more efficient cooler.

[@TheCountess666]

Every single high end GPU with a reference release in the last say al leasst 5 years has had the same 110 degree tjunction temperatures. There is NOTHING extraordinary about navi's thermal performance with the reference cooler. all of them were designed to keep the GPU operating at around 80 degree's and that means all of them had tjunction temperatures well above 100 degree's.

[@Asghaad]

@@TheCountess666 at this point i think AMD made a mistake trying to get more information than was needed to the uninformed masses ... if they kept reportingh the edge temperature just like everyone else they wouldnt need to deal wit the swarms of people refusing to understand the meaning of the measurement accusing them of running the cards at unacceptable temperatures ... i also am baffled at stupidity of the human race if so many people cannot understand the concept of measuring hottest spot within the silicone and that its not the same as measuring the edge temperature ...

[@sirmonkey1985]

this silicon is good up to ~125 but the safe limit of 110 leaves headroom to protect the chip in the case that it happens to spike to 125+ before the protections trigger. also wouldn't be surprised if nvidia actually added a feature like AMD is using if turing is some where in the 120-125C range in certain parts of the die given how big it is. ultimately it was just a poorly worded blog post probably by a marketing person that failed to get the post proof read before posting it.

[@jukahri]

The GPU will function at 110c, but it wil virtually never reach that for a normal user.

[@TheCountess666]

@@Asghaad They still report the same edge temperature as everyone else. They just added Tjunction. other then that i agree.

[@js986]

Great piece of content as usual. Having worked in tech support, 'expected behaviour' can cover undesirable circumstances (such as hitting 110TJmax). 'Expected' only means that by design or limitation hitting 110 isn't necessarily concerning.

[@Maky313]

0:20 ".. combined with the short-term memory of the internet" LMAO!!

[@rifleman42051]

Steve and his team always on point! Wish the Big Wigs would listen and learn from your channel!

[@themodfather9382]

Lisa.. Lisa. Forget the blower coolers. Include decent stock coolers.. and real thermal paste. That's all.

[@RobBCactive]

But I don't need want hot air sent to the CPU ... a better cooler is what's needed. Plenty of thin machines blow

[@Toxici-Ty]

"Hitting temps up to 110 junction is expected" is obviously them stating that their manufacturing specification allows the cards to hit 110C junction temperature before the core/card would be considered faulty. This doesn't mean every card will hit it. It's just that if yours IS hitting it you are still within the allowed minimum specification set by their engineering team and the card isn't going to run into trouble for running that hot. The quote about throttling is, as well, obviously them stating that as far as the thermal design of the card is concerned the card will continue to boost up to 110. They are pretty obviously affirming the 110 is normal statement by explaining that this temperature shouldn't affect your GPU boost, and were specifically talking about the thermal tolerances on the card and didn't feel the need to mention power limit, etc. This sounds like a statement from someone in engineering the way it's worded... I don't know if that's what is confusing or if people are ignoring the context willfully to meme about AMD space heaters again.

[@Safetytrousers]

The video demonstrates the GPU not boosting up to 110c

[@Toxici-Ty]

Safetytrousers the one they have. This is a just statement about manufacturing tolerances stemmed from people worrying about hot j temp. Just because the tolerance is allowed to go up to 110 doesn’t mean that every card is going to hit that temperature limit before it hits a power limit. Some percentage of the chips almost definitely will get close to that temp because those are the chips on the edge of their specification. Anything that runs hotter to achieve the right frequencies I’m assuming would be scrapped or repurposed. All the statement meant is “If your card reports a temperature up to 110 degrees this is within the thermal specification of the silicon and there’s nothing to worry about.” That. ’s it.

[@Safetytrousers]

@@Toxici-Ty That's not how they worded it, and that is the issue. We shouldn't have to guess at a possible actual meaning. They should be accurate and explicit in the first place.

[@K31TH3R]

The clockspeeds are definitely linked to the junction temp and not the core temp, which explains why a graphite thermal pad was used. My first 5700 XT had a junction temp of 93c, it boosted to 2026MHz out of the box. My second 5700 XT had a junction temp of 84c and it boosted to 2083MHz out of the box. Both had a load temperature of 74c in my case. Once on water, the tj dropped to 71c and the card maintains a max boost clock of 2094Mhz at all times under 100% load. Setting the core speed to 2150MHz 1229mv, with +50% powerplay, results in a tj of 76c, and the card usually runs 2106MHz with occasional spikes to 2124MHz. Like PBO on Ryzen, Wattman is really good at extracting all the headroom the chip has available, which means don't worry about manual overclocking, just cool the part as best as you can and the chip will sort itself out.

[@jakegarrett8109]

K31TH3R these cards don’t support Crossfire do they? It looks like that should be locked out (if it’s not, then I’d definitely have to see if 4x is locked...)

[@K31TH3R]

@@jakegarrett8109 I did actually try to run them in crossfire, because why not, and the option just wasn't there. I don't have any games that support DX12 multi-GPU so I never tested them together. My experience with SLI/Crossfire has been pretty awful, and I don't blame AMD from dropping support, but I also have to imagine that Crossfire 5700 XT's would give a 2080TI something to worry about.

[@jakegarrett8109]

K31TH3R thats disappointing, my 4x Fury over doubles my Titan Xp (duel 2080ti might match, but offer no real upgrade), I have nothing to upgrade to in the near future from these ancient 2015 cards are apparently the best modern technology at any expense can provide (I would have 4x Titan RTX, but they locked that out, otherwise I would have picked them over 4x 2080ti as the Vram would be nice since even SWBF2 was calling for 20 GB Vram on my Titan Star Wars edition at 11,520x2560 triple 4k resolution). Shame, most of my games work excellent (even duel Fury is much smoother than the Titan, and offers a much better experience on so many levels). I guess the only way to improve is use cryogenic temperatures, but that’s kind of expensive for running multi GPU like that as a daily machine, but that’s your only option as apparently neither company wants 60 fps 4k to be a reality if they stop SLI/Crossfire (a 1080ti or 2080ti is a joke at 4k, it’s pitiful on one card...), oh well, if they did, I guess then I’d be trying for 60 fps on my triple 4k and so on, at least my quad Fury handles everything single monitor (Crysis 3 on it is mind blowing, over 100 fps at 4k Ultra! My Titan only did 45 fps...). Ironically, like 90% of the games I want to play this year support xfire, but I’ve found like 0 games that support multi-monitor (and you’d think that would be common, as most people have at least 2 monitors...), haha, multi-GPU works, but no support for multi-display! (If you force it, oh man does it get stretched horrifically for Nvidia cards! I haven’t tried AMD eyefinity on SWBF2 though, but it can’t be worse... even not working at all is better than the 20:1 stretches on the sides, it’s bad for modern games, lol!)

[@ToeCutter454]

just got the rest of my parts today and got my new system all setup with my Gigabyte x570 Gaming X, XFX Ultra Thicc III RX5700XT 8GB, Ryzen 5 3600x, 32 GB ram, EVGA 750w, 4TB space(have a 5th HDD that's a 120GB just for OS and core programs), 2 of the drives are WD Black SN750 NVMe(1TB each), 1 is a 7200 rpm HDD 1TB and other is samsung 860 1 TB SSD. this GFX card though at stock is only hitting about 70c junction temp running rust at max settings, if i disregard sound and manually tune the fans i can get it down to about 55c with a decent curve. i will say this though coming from a i5 intel quad core with no HT, 16GB ram and a XFX RX470 to this is like night and day! i did upgrade my monitor too with this system build to a 144Hz on display port from DVI running 59Hz... i've been under a rock for the last 5 years forgive me!!!

[@MegaBoeboe]

110°C Not great, Not terrible - Bryukhanov.

[@janchovanec8624]

I serve CCP.

[@kerromatic]

Ive been quiet for a long time now but let me just say, Gamers Nexus is the channel that LTT could never be. Here are a group of people that actually CARE about everything surrounding PC's its crazy I couldnt believe it when I saw you collabing with KingP1n but real recognize real eh? love this channel to death man keep it up!

[@davidwake9159]

I believe we have discovered Steve's Junction Temperature Max :]

[@TheRealBobbyMC]

“This WILL create disinformation.” 2 and a half years later I’ve heard nothing but the “110 is expected line” until this video. Only reason I even looked up anything about it was that the junction and current temps were suddenly going wildly out of proportion even if they still weren’t passing 110. I did kind of know at heart 110 was too much, so I always made sure to not let the junction go past 100 anyway, so when it jumped 10 degrees I knew regardless of its “limit”, something had changed. Belated thanks for the video. 20+ years and finding real answers is still a bitch 90% of the time. Musta got recommend this because I just watched another of your videos, and now I’m subbed because between the two that was the most easy to digest expertise since Leo Laporte and Patrick Norton trained me.

[@georgf9279]

When showing a "flashback" to an older video with the smaller video frame in the middle, youd you also make the sound like it's coming over a telephone line? That'd be hilarious.

[@Germanbattle83]

Awesome and objective videos, watched a bunch of them to help me choose the gpu for my pc, thanks a lot. learned a lot of useful stuff.

[@magottyk]

Specs include worse case scenarios, so the cards being expected to run @110°C is part of those expected worse case scenarios especially when blower cards are put into cost cutting OEM builds where thermal reduction as part of the design is sacrificed to cost cutting to hit a price point. Tjmax is set for a reason and whatever that may be it will be expected to be hit regularly in a reasonable percentage of end use scenarios. Gamer and enthusiast focused narratives need to stop translating engineering considerations as if statements targeted towards the sum total of use cases are exclusively written for them. The broader market consists of a high percentage of cheap builds with cost cutting measures that will allow the silicon to hit high thermals, with OEM's knowing that the silicon has these inbuilt protective measures. Here's some additional context from the blog post referencing the Lowest Common Denominator. _"In addition, for every single GPU within a SKU family (for example, reference RadeonTM RX Vega 64 GPUs), the DPM states or Vf points were identical. Given that there is always a die-to-die variance in performance even between two pieces of otherwise identical silicon, once again this meant giving up performance while catering to the lowest common denominator within the wafer population."_ So worst case scenarios with the bottom 10% of dies using the reference cards and we can see where the "expected" comes from. Additionally the blog post references gamers and overclockers that adds to this "expected". _"Since all of this is done in real time, on a per die basis, some AMD RadeonTM RX 5700 GPUs may exceed published Boost frequencies regularly, and with no input whatsoever from the end user."_ and _"At the end of the day, we know that gamers have different preferences. Some prioritize acoustics while others want to crank out every last bit of performance from their GPUs. This is why we provide them with the flexibility to tweak and customize settings as they see fit."_ 3:17 you are selectively quoting out of context, here the rest of the sentence that actually references the worst case scenarios. _"Paired with this array of sensors is the ability to identify the ‘hotspot’ across the GPU die. Instead of setting a conservative, ‘worst case’ throttling temperature for the entire die,..."_ So when reading anything within this paragraph, one needs to keep in mind that the new sensor array removes the need for a conservative estimate for Tjmax in worst case scenarios as they can get actual hot spot temps that have allowed AMD to remove that conservative worst case throttling temp, for a more accurate real time temp. I.e they can set Tjmax higher because of a significant decrease in the margin of error that needed an allowance. Your translation of "expected" is wrong and is subjectively biased as is what many are also doing by applying the 110°C as if AMD meant all cards in all scenarios. AMD didn't say that and it's not bad wording, it's bad comprehension of what the paragraph says and what expected means in the context of the entire post.

[@bdhale34]

I know for a fact an older radeon card that didn't even measure tjunction that gamed at 113c lasted 11 years 6 of those crossfired with another one and one of them is still going. at 113c or higher every day. RTG says it can be expected to work properly at 110c they aren't messing around a bit.

[@chrisbertolino2116]

Solid reporting as always Steve.

[@madfinntech]

56 AMD fanboys disagreed.

[@chikennuget3634]

MadFinnTech don’t think anyone is disagreeing that blower cards are absolute trash and should only be used on lower power cards in small cases

[@doublecrossedswine112]

@ItsSpeltGoogol That is only true in casual land where they use mini-cases with no airflow. Your scenario is so niche it barely exists.

[@MisterMayhem17]

Blowfanboys

[@chikennuget3634]

@ItsSpeltGoogol The only benefit for blower coolers is that they don't expel hot air into the system, but outside.(they are popular for watercooling due to mostly using reference pcb) That's why it is beneficial in smaller cases. In pretty much every other case where airflow is decent, the hot air is exhausted by case fans anyway. Regular GPUs should not recycle hot air when you actually have decent airflow in the case. Cheap is another thing, but blower gpus are not any cheaper than low-end regular cooler ones.

[@nigeldogg]

That’s expected.

[@BAdventures]

Good honest report. Loved the clarification at the end 😂✌️

[@dhgodzilla1]

I used to think before replacing my thermal compound on my XFX RX 480 that 91C was hot lol

[@TheMCmace]

you aren't seeing the same junction temps on your rx480 like someone with a rx5700xt

[@rdyer8764]

NICE! Clear, concise, and you didn't pull any punches, though you didn't go out of your way to talk trash. EXACTLY what reviewers are supposed to do! Maybe AMD will listen and clarify their post?

[@smeebs]

Maybe AMD is just embracing the memes about using their cards as space heaters.

[@TheCountess666]

Except that Navi's reference cooler has exactly the same thermal performance as any other high end GPU reference cooler. all of them keep they GPU's they are designed for at around 80 degree's. and that means all of them had tjunction temps of well over 100 degree's

[@infernaldaedra]

@@TheCountess666 correct just because you can't measure it on the Nvidia cards doesn't mean that they also don't have hotspots on the die. The old memes with hardware are kinda outdated at this point.

[@sirius4k]

Winter IS coming soon.

[@arkdesign9517]

@Brad Viviviyal it stands for Add-in-board Partners. As in all partner companies that use the chips on their cards.

[@AstralS7orm]

@ugaaa5 Uhm what. Reference cards have tons of replacement air coolers and full cover water blocks available. Plus of course CLCs. I do recommend starting with Sapphire, they tend to reuse reference board for at least some designs. (Different for Navi Nitro+, unusually for them.) Full cover water block compatibility is a good guide to find them.

[@vladimirenev1847]

Very well put. Like I've said before you're a damn legend, Steve.

[@C_C-]

AMD is out in the lead here as smaller nodes are more sensitive to hot spots.. Your explanation is very good and commendable among your peers, but I fear most people still won't understand this and will use the title alone to counter what you wanted to clarify with further FUD. No matter how many times we say don't buy blower cards people see a gpu as a card and vice versa.

[@GamersNexus]

It's not that they won't understand it, it's that they won't listen to it.

[@C_C-]

@@GamersNexus Well when it comes to partisan commentary it's true that people only look as deep as they want to.. but I think this is honestly beyond the reasonable comprehension of the average gamer.

[@bluesy92]

While it is true the cooler does not perform well, thermally or acoustically, it is worth mentioning the performance gaming crowd overestimates the effect of thermal degredation on graphics cards. While the junction temps are lower on other coolers, the 80-84c range is what is expected of blowers, and close to what you'd get on edge temps on Navi. So it's not any worse than any previous blowers. The memory temps aren't as close to the 95c tCase thermals as you'd think, as AMD has revealed that the memory temperature is also junction, not edge. All workstation GPUs - both Quadro and Radeon Pro - are sold only as blower coolers, and those are expected to have long life. Quadros have been known to hit 88c edge temps, hotter than Navi shows, and they are sold to professionals who require longevity, and unlike the gaming market, are more likely to keep cards beyond 2 generations and run them extensively under full load, those cards take serious abuse and turn out fine. It's also worth mentioning that silicon degrades with both temperature and voltage, and are much less abused than CPUs. Navi uses 1.025v for the 5700, and 1.2v for the 5700xt, which is much less than someone overclocking a 3900x will dump into 7nm. And we aren't even aware of how the differences in current draw affect in a GPU affect lifespan relative to a CPU, it may be more voltage tolerant. Either way, a GPU has locked parameters. This is why sliders in overclocking software "max out." A CPU can be pushed outside the safe confines of the chip by the user, at which point thermals become much more important (look at the voltages of LN2 overclocked chips...those would die instantly without sub-ambient cooling.) I'm not saying these coolers are good in any way, but I am saying that the effect of thermals on GPU longevity is largely exaggerated by the gaming community. If blower coolers and 80+ temps were unsafe...they wouldn't be used for Enterprise products, even disregarding the fact that they better suited for low airflow situations. The tradeoff wouldn't be worth it, especially in a situation where a short MTBF causing a problem grows exponentially. Such as multi-GPU supercomputing applications. These coolers suck. These temps aren't as low as they can be. None of that I'll deny. But they won't kill a card. Especially not a gaming card, which typically is utilized less than 3 years before being replaced.

[@finitekosmos]

So much of this really is down to fanboyism. Fanboys proclaiming that any criticism of their preferred product manufacturer is just and only because it's critical about their preferred product manufacturer, irrespective of how valid the criticism is. This is a bad place to be, people who are this entrenched in tribal fanboyism will forgive almost anything while being taken for mugs by the very thing they wont allow to be criticised. No, 110 Degree operating temperatures for anything beyond a kettle are not "normal" for consumer electronic computing devices and they make it damn difficult to piece together quiet and cool systems. In fact I'd wager that the same people spreading this type of dis-information are the very same that proclaim Intel's SkylakeX HEDT processors to be too hot (and on that point they are actually correct despite how those chips may have been designed to operate at those increased temperatures) that's right fanboys you are hypocrites. If you are going to be a fanboy of something or anything at all, be a fan of advancement in technology rather than a specific product manufacturer, AMD absolutely deserve praise for pushing the CPU market forward with extraordinary products. The reference 5700XT is almost a decent product, almost, but it is let down by a poor cooler design that negatively impacts on thermals, noise and performance. Like Intel's HEDT Skylake X chips which are seriously over-priced and the package is filled with a TIM that has all the thermal transfer properties of toothpaste. These problems are criticised because we want a better performing product at the best possible price, if you are a fan of technology you are fan of seeing technology advancement. To me it doesn't matter who made a product, as long as it was made ethically (I'm looking at you Amazon and your Alexa child labor shops seriously, stop that sh*t) and represents an improvement over what I have then I'm relatively happy. If you want to stick with AMD for your GPU (and at the MSRP the 5700XT is very competitive against Nvidia mid-range products) then I'd seriously consider picking up a SKU from a third party producing a card with a well designed cooler. Because if you pick up the reference design you are potentially leaving performance on the table and adding/creating thermal management and noise problems for your build. Corporations have PR departments they do not need fanboys and in fact would probably do better and sell better if there were fewer fanboys around since their hypocritical opinions are almost always colored by corporate allegiances. - Edited to remove extra line breaks added by youtube.

[@finitekosmos]

@Conor The 5700XT is not a shit GPU, it's actually very competitive, as far as I'm concerned it eliminates the entire 2060 (and lower) range and even trades blows with the 2070 Super despite having a lower price. The 2070 Super is also not a shit product, nor in fact is the 2060, they are however badly priced products especially when I can similar performance to a 2070 Super for less. Assuming of course hat the card can be found at its MSRP. In addition to this AMD's reference design says nothing about the AIB partner companies that will in turn produce cards that deliver similar if not more performance due to the inclusion of improved coolers. In the case of both AMD and Nvidia in the midrange right now both companies produce fairly performance comparable products,it's just that Nvidia's mid-range is more expensive than it deserves to be.

[@finitekosmos]

@Paul Nolan And you still took the time to post, bless.

[@dpokor]

Unfortunately, AMD's PR department is the very reason we got into this situation. It's all "leaks" and viral marketing manipulating people's emotions in social media, enabling NPCs to feel they're contributing to society by "supporting the little guy" from their pedestal of moral superiority. Meanwhile, AMD's margins (again, *margins*, not sales or revenue) keep growing to Intel/nVidia levels. Hell, there's "Technical Marketing" people from the company posting in that Reddit cesspool and it doesn't spark even a smidge of suspicion in the fanbots... "Nah, I'm surely not being manipulated by this person whose job consists of manipulating people using what should be perceived as technical arguments." It's a freaking joke.

[@finitekosmos]

@@dpokor Completely agree on this, it is like this nonsense is being stoked by a PR department that doesn't know how to execute a marketing strategy or develop one for that matter. It's a shame because I know of people who refuse to buy AMD products on principle because look at what their "fans" are like and they dont want to be associated with that, it's a shame because AMD are making great CPU's at a great price and they make pretty competitively priced GPU's. Fanboys are so coloured by their selected corporate allegiance that its impossible to get an accurate picture from them, using them in place of PR is a terrible strategy.

[@youtuberobbedmeofmyname]

My nigga, you think Im gonna read All That Shit by You? nope. TLDR now.

[@svtcontour]

I have in my possession an R9 390X with the reference blower. Its still alive and well. I dont think high temps will significantly shorten the life span of a typical enthusiast video card. The R9 may be acceptable for gaming another couple years and then I'd probably sell it. Its already old. If it gets really hot like in furmark, it will throttle but thats not typical temps I would get in a game anyway. Either way I'm not worried.

[@simsurfvideo]

When techjesus takes you to junction temperature school for the third time.

[@kidreaper9360]

Even if the topic is revisited multiple times I'll watch every single one, I can listen to you all day

[@seymoronion8371]

It's not like any company or person has ever said anything 'somewhat off' on purpose in order to generate free press coverage.

[@johngermain5146]

Inductors are not solid state devices. They are merely coils of wire wrapped around magnetic magnetically active (boost for iron composite, bust for copper or brass) material with some mu. However, the wire resistance definitely changes with temperature and will affect the characteristics from the VRM. In some cases inductor forming materials such as WAX melts and well, it's gone after overheating. Also, Solder melts and fiberglass burns but not at those temperatures.

[@janaebert3059]

The blower is fine on the 5700, not on the XT though. Applying the mod and using thermalpaste will help a lot.

[@yvrelna]

I don't understand what the controversy here is, AMD's blog post is precise and well worded. When AMD says "expected and within spec", it means exactly that the temperature is not dangerous to the product and the product can be expected to perform at its design performance for the expected lifetime of the product. If you read manuals or technical specifications, this is a very common and typical wording. If people misunderstood what they wrote and interpreted it as the card are supposed to run at that temperature, that's not AMD's fault, but of the reader who should return to school to relearn reading comprehension.

[@fran117]

As someone who ran a single fan fermi card for 8 years at least 8-16 hrs a day at 95-100c i actually believe this is fine haha

[@ASAWProductions]

Gtx 480 life. Bonus with the exposed heatsink area doubling as a food warmer

[@coffee7180]

Wow, I always thought that over 90 degrees would be a death sentence for long time use. Even over 80 could be more than problematic in many years of use. Could you explain why your card had to run so long and so many hours a day?

[@The36th]

Fermi card is not Navi. Both in architecture and in materials used to make it. This is very simplistic analogy that make it false.

[@arnissonsondahl8584]

@@coffee7180 a poor neet fits perfectly in the scenario.

[@fran117]

@@The36th Its the same in a way that when the engineers of the card say, "its fine, it can handle it" then just believe that it can handle it, they said that on fermi too, ran it for 8 years and it didnt break, only upgraded because i bought a 1440 144 screen.

[@pamelahusky1179]

Letting them run this high decreases usable life span to the point that something that could have lasted years is now going to last 500 hours at the maximum temperature witch is the amount of time many other ones are rated to operate at that temperature. Their going to say that the maximum temperature is okay without including that it's going to reduce the life expectancy from more then a decade to less then one year depending on how it's running. The board is also going to flex causing the solder balls to break off and improper contact with the cooler and I bet the thermal paste is going to pump out more frequently. I've had a board that I got used and it had a big bulge under the socket because of it operating high and I'm talking about a system that turns it's self off once it hits 100 degrees. Mentioning how damage occurs and that it reduces the usable lifetime at these temperatures would have been a really important thing to explain since this is getting to the point that people are soon going to start ending up with cracked heat sinks from it expanding and contracting.

[@user78405]

I AGREE...SO NOBODY SHOULDN'T BE RUNNING BEYOND 75C....75C IS THE HIGHEST CAN SILICONE CAN HANDLE....BUT 85c CAN NOT ...ITS START TO DEGRADE ITS SILICONE WHEN ITS START TO SOFTEN AND BULDGE ITS TRANSISTOR DUE TO EXTREME HEAT....wHEN AMD SAY ITS NORMAL...I WILL STAY AWAY FROM THEM, BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK HOW MICROELECTRONICS WORK'S

[@AMDRyzenEnthusiastGroup]

Thank you for thorough idiot-proof explanation. I've been trying to echo this sentiment for the past few days, to little avail. I saw your FB link to this pop up, and shared it to a couple of my "AMD-friendly" FB groups, in hopes of education. We'll see how that goes... Good work / reporting, Steve & team.

[@krypton1260]

Asus TUF RX 5700XT with a custom linear fan curve set to 100% fan speed at 70°C hits 97°C junction and seems to throttle under heavy load. GPU temp stays below 70°C. Stock gaming mode, which is stock speeds. Asus' GPU Tweak lets you select silent (underclock), gaming (stock) and oc (overclock) modes. I'm probably going to run the card in silent mode with the custom linear fan curve to keep the card from frying... but it does have a 3 year warranty, so that's nice I guess.

[@WolfSilverLone]

i be super annoyed of my graphic card hit 110c regardless of usage... I also get annoyed when I see 80+c on JT and edge temps

[@1toW4mB0to9]

i get annoyed if my gpu hits over 50°C

[@dennislp3]

Why does nobody seem to reference room temperature when dealing with thermal topics? It makes a huge difference. They referenced 110 degree which could very likely apply to any situation were someone is not sitting in a room thats down to 21c. For instance I currently live in China and inside temperatures are almost always around 26c even with AC (Chinese people prefer warm temps). My laptop handles 26c ok but if I game in a room at 30c (also not uncommon...they don't usually have central AC in China) my laptop will gladly overheat and shut itself down.

[@DaroffApFire]

AMD didn't say it's "fine". They said that running at 110c is "expected". That's a very, very different statement.

[@walzen6654]

Thanks for this video!

[@iluzioR91]

here we go again

[@StaticVapour590]

Great thing that you shed a light for people who are posting memes and do not seem to listen what is true and what is false. Ref. cooler is just undersized

[@KeithYipKW]

I am quite disappointed with the quality of this video. From an engineer's viewpoint, AMD's explanation is sound but Gamers Nexus' is misleading/incomplete. The only thing I agree is that AMD should better explain themselves by providing more details. Oh wait, did providing more details start this disaster?

[@tkimaginestudio]

I agree. It is unreasonable to interpret AMD's statement about boosting to mean that there are no limiting factors other than temperature. While the statement could technically have been worded less ambiguously, I find it strange from Gamers Nexus to defend absurd interpretations on behalf of users. Also, insisting that better temperatures are possible is meaningless if those better temperatures do not buy one anything. There is a good point to be made about efficient cooler designs when it comes to noise levels, but the arguments regarding temperatures fall flat. I don't see anything wrong with AMD assuming that their cards will be used in bad cases. Again, they could have been more explicit but their statement is not wrong.

[@KeithYipKW]

@@tkimaginestudio I am too lazy to type all these because I doubt if GM will read it. I agree with your points. The proper way to criticize AMD's explanation is to question their reasons for the numbers and limitations in the spec.

[@Seth22087]

I actually saw meme only, not the article, but from the meme I kind of took it as explained, they expect GPU to be fine up to this temperature, it doesn't mean you should want to run it at that temperature. Just because they expect something, it doesn't necessarily mean it is great. Plus it really changes nothing, since I always did and will recommend partner models, not blower cooler models, especially for 5700XT. Though I got feeling like some people also mix edge temperature with hot spot temperature. Though it makes one wonder what is AMD playing to hit 110C, did they access to Half-Life 3? :-D

[@frosty9392]

sometimes i feel like people choose to misread things just so they can meme about it 1) it says " *up to* 110" 2) a typical gamer is likely going to overclock their shit..right..? (or have cheapo cases crammed into closed spaces? lol) 3) they are trying to convey it will be safe to see "110" (since most the time "100" is the magic number) meh, who knows

[@rightwingsafetysquad9872]

Answer is at 13:30. The fact that better coolers are available doesn't mean that running near Tjunction isn't acceptable. If I don't want to pay $10 more for no more performance then the partners didn't do good work, they are selling better for the sake of better, not for real benefit. You're right, but you never explained why. Buy a better cooled card, and slow the fans until it runs at 100+C, as long as you have a ~10% headroom for load spikes, acceptable is acceptable. The reason for a better cooler is ACOUSTICS, NOT Thermals. But if you always wear headphones and don't care about noise, "the cooler is shit" is no reason to pay more.

[@WitchYuki22]

What kind of headset are you using? I could still hear that piece of shit cooler despite blasting the game sounds in my headset. Blower cards are only here for the people replacing the cooler or those idiots who have an itx case lmao

[@pjryan37]

3:38 this shot gives me anxiety

[@Trunka34]

Aorus 5700xt will hit 110 if you set "auto overclock" as the tuning control. But it also runs at 2075mhz while gaming. When left to default settings it wont even get close to 90 degrees.

[@Thesinistereyes1]

What are junction temps on Turing cards like?

[@narmonteam9417]

Nvidia doesn't have sensors there.

[@ZeroFallout1]

They to scared to show cause turing already hot.

[@Supcharged]

@@ZeroFallout1 Lmao, turing runs cool even on stock cooler

[@Zetler]

RTX cards runs cool because they don’t use shit reference cooling.

[@IcePhoenixOfTime]

@@Supcharged because they dont use blower style coolers ... thats such a bad comparison ^^'

[@jeffreyparker9396]

The proper wording of the 110 temp is that it is within spec, nothing else. Within spec on these means that it will run at that temperature, and depending on the spec sheet that temperature would be rated for it to run a certain amount of time, or indefinitely and the chip would be expected to last for the rated life, I would think probably 3-5 years at maybe 8 hours per day would be the rated life which would likely be translated to just the number of hours and like I said the spec sheet for the chip might just have a max temp, or it might have a peak and a continuous max and the peak would have a certain amount of time that it is rated to run at that temperature. Both peak and max are within spec, and if you want longer life out of the parts you generally have to run them cooler.

[@MsSovereign1214]

"making liquid nitrogen from scratch" youtube recommendations...

[@Nhokc35]

My 5700xt was running 110 and so I turned my fans around in most spots and it dropped to 102 pretty solidly on games like siege and the witcher set to ultra 4k and held fps and clock speeds a lot better too. This card seems to need some direct air from the side and isn't pulling in as much air as it should. Without positive pressure in your case it will run 110c while gaming

[@maxdamage4919]

I have RX6800 gaming oc and the junction GPU is always locked in 100c , undervolting 1100 to 1000 and down mhz clock 2200mhz to reference clock 2000mhz, down the junction 100 to 80c and gpu 80c to 65c. Of course lose FPS in demanding gaming.

[@bryandepaepe5984]

There is no explanation that will satisfy the Dunning-Kruger people.

[@Newton492]

So my Rx5700xt is currently melting to death? Sadge

[@9uuuu]

I think I've gotten everything I need from the title alone tbh

[@GamersNexus]

Retitled it because of this comment. We don't want people assuming they understand the content from a glance.

[@9uuuu]

@@GamersNexus Well I came back and actually watched the video, and yeah I see why it was so important to get the full story on this one. Thanks for singling me out, I probably wouldn't have watched through if you hadn't.

[@mattrobar4717]

been using my MSI 5700xt Mech OC on 110c Hotspot (Junction)Temp for 5yrs now and had no issues and still kickin on AAA titles

[@happybuggy1582]

Hey bro just a tip, change your gpu paste with some mid-premium tier paste. My junction used to hit 110 all the time at 3000rpm fan and now it never exceed 90C, at 1500-1800rpm fan. Also, if you wanna check if it’s the paste throttling the heat transfer, try touching the heatsink fins under full load, if they are just warm or room temp, it’s the paste fault. They should be burning hot under full load.