Accessible Feminism: Why Do Men Watch The Apothecary Diaries?

[@ExplanationPointAnime]

Sometimes, people will interpret my videos in a way that I didn't intend, and I always consider that a mistake on my part, with my reasoning being that I should've worked harder to make sure my message was clear and understandable. But if you somehow interpreted this video as saying that feminism is only good if it is written in a way that appeals to men, or that Snow White is a bad show for not trying to appeal to men, then I don't know what to tell you. I spent two entire paragraphs, one at the beginning and one at the end, explicitly saying the opposite. I don't know what I could possibly have done to be clearer. This video is not about what makes a good feminist protagonist. It is not about what makes a good feminist story. It has nothing to say about how stories "should" be. It is about a single show (using another show as an example) that presents its feminist message in a specific way, with a specific goal, that I found interesting. But I already said that in the video, twice, so I don't know what I'm hoping to achieve by saying it again here.

[@noampresnete8677]

don't feel discourged by stupid comments, the video explains it's points on it's own. for every bad faith comment i want to believe there 50 people that understood the point

[@Hawk7886]

I think you did a good job dude. Don't worry about it, you'll always find idiots on the internet.

[@darthpotato3566]

@ExplanationPointAnime judging by the hills they chose to die on and their reactions to replies, I'm guessing they clicked on the video having already decided they were looking for a fight

[@yellowsnake7300]

It’s okay. You made your points clearly in your video, and clarified them even further in this comment. People taking issue with things you did not say, or things you made a point of specifying that you don’t agree with, is in no way your fault. There’s nothing you could do or say beyond what you’ve already done to convince people to think differently about these topics. Topics they’ve clearly already developed a hardened stance on, long before this video was ever made. A stance they feel strongly about and are primed to defend at even the slightest hint of opposition. So, even though there is no opposition present in this video, that doesn’t matter to them because they are so use to fighting to defend their stance that they take any commentary that differs from their perspective as an attack to defend against. Even though there is nothing attacking them in this video, it doesn’t matter because they expect there to be. And due solely to this ingrained expectation, they act as if there is opposition even in its absence. The fact that they are arguing against a stance that you have clearly stated you don’t have shows that they came to the video with those argumentative objections already in mind. They were not open enough to really listen to the video and recognize that those objections did not end up applying to the video they watched. Of course, not all the comments have been negative! This really was a fantastic video, and the effort you put into it showed. I personally loved that it was on the longer sides and appreciate how much effort you put into sharing your thoughts on a topic that I find fascinating. And more than anything, I love all of the longer discussions about feminism, misogyny, and the roles of individuals in a patriarchal society that are happening in this comment section. I’m seeing a lot of longer comments, and people engaging in conversations that challenge their perceptions of these concepts, and being challenged to think about them from a different vantage point. All this discussion was only made possible because of this video. I think that has made this video, and all you put into it, more then worthwhile. Please don’t let the comments of people who are unwilling to look outside their own preconceived notions about these topics get you down. 💙

[@nathagar9251]

Even more than the text of the video, people managed to ignore the title itself. I don’t think it would be possible to lay out the subject and scope of this discussion any more clearly than the title does.

[@stickpeoplegamedudes]

One element of the show that I'm surprised you never touched on is that, because of its setting, many (most?) of the male characters in the show are eunuchs - forcibly castrated as a prerequisite for their employment because the emperor needs to be seen as the manliest man in the room and can't risk any possible threat to that. If that isn't "men also suffering under a patriarchal system" I don't know what is.

[@relic5752]

Well, less about being the manliest man in the room and more about avoiding false claims to the throne or controversies about such pregnancies. Hell, the current emperor makes good on his mother's ideal of not creating any more eunuchs. Yes the system absolutely sucks and keeps everyone down, but the show and the light novels never have a systemic issue exist for no reason at all. In fact, such critique is all the more powerful by demonstrating why these conclusions have been reached and still showing them as flawed and suppressive

[@ExplanationPointAnime]

@@stickpeoplegamedudes Ha! Didn't even cross my mind, and I had a whole section about eunuchs in an earlier draft. Good catch!

[@galaxa13]

This is fascinating. I never thought before how Maomao is an acceptable feminist protagonist because she's a passive player. Despite not fighting against the system of patriarchy Maomao is still considered feminist because she's not a weeping damsel. Bad things happen to her and other women in the show, but they simply accept it because that's just their lot in life. Audiences aren't made to feel guilty or overly sympathetic and so those who would have a negative reaction to those emotions stick around. Long enough to perhaps start questioning the things that the female characters have already accepted.

[@SirRichard94]

Maomao does fight back in some ways, by staying quiet. Very often, she knows more than she says to protect people, some times she even knows more than she tells the audience. She'd rather protect a murderous court lady than convict her to death by exposing her.

[@danfelder8062]

Yes, and another way to think about this: jokes aren't funny when you explain them. This isn't about jokes themselves, but rather the fundamentally different experience of something being explained to you directly versus making the leap yourself. Maomao doesn't come off as 'lecturing' the audience. Instead, when Maomao excuses the oppressive nature of the society in her clearly insincere, passive-aggressive tone, people mentally argue "no, this clearly IS NOT okay". Many scenes even have likeable men with good intentions realizing the horrible conditions women endure in this society those men ultimately benefit from and influence. No amount of protesting "but I'm one of the good ones" matters to Maomao. One of the hardest hitting moments in the show is when Maomao says that she cannot be friendly with a powerful character, because they have the ability to order her killed at any time without question. When they protest, "But I would never do that!" She responds, "It isn't an issue of would or would not, but could or could not." Show-don't-tell is overused writing advice, but the core idea behind it is strong: when you tell the audience "this person is sad" it hits less hard than showing the person sobbing. The audience realizes themselves that the person is sad, and the sense of empathy is stronger. Apothecary Diaries is NOT subtle about it's feminism, but it's approach focuses on showing rather than telling.

[@Michael-y9o5g]

So. I'm supposed to hate it, then, because it doesn't go far enough to demonize men and make the women girls girl-bosses else I'm an evil misogynist?

[@kindredspirit9703]

Yes, as unintuitive as it is, having a strong female protagonist who is an active element in the plot kind of subverts feminist messaging sometimes. In fact, it can be very patronizing to be shown a ruthlessly patriarchal setting that falls over to the first girlboss to cross it's path, because it implicitly tells the audience that "women just need to advocate for themselves". It's the media equivalent of telling a woman to "lean in". Really good feminist messaging needs to convey how omnipresent a force misogyny actually is, and if you want to tell a feminist story about defeating patriarchy, you need to include real steps for how that could work in the real world, which would include organizing across the gender divide.

[@Michael-y9o5g]

@kindredspirit9703 Not gonna lie, that reply was _very_ well composed and educational. Thank you for not matching me at my bad mood. Do you have any books/AV media that would match your description of quality feminist media? I'm not a feminist myself, but I'm always open for broadening my horizons. 😊 (edit: it occurs to me that I got the notification of your reply due to it being added to the thread, not due to it being a direct reply to me. Upon review, it seems my original reply to the op was removed, and understandably so - I was in quite the asshole mood yesterday.)

[@esorb1334]

One thing about the emperor that's interesting is that while he is the pinnacle of the system and the one who individually benefits from it the most, he is powerless to meaningfully change it. If he tries to implement widespread societal reforms to improve the social standing of women, he will very quickly find himself no longer the emperor and also no longer alive (the second one before the first). He is only capable of being rewarded by the system so long as he maintains the status quo of the system, because if he tries to change it then the system will remove him and replace him with someone who is more than happy to take his place at the top.

[@nathagar9251]

While this could be true in regards to womens’ standing, an interesting element is that the current emperor abolished slavery when he took power. It was a socially acceptable thing before, presumably economically important, and the emperor had the power to affect meaningful change to his society just because he thought slavery was gross. I haven’t read the ln yet so i can’t fully get into the themes of what’s going on with the emperor, but it really seems like cultural mysogeny is just so baked in that he doesn’t realize there’s a problem.

[@l.a.g3098]

As someone who's read ahead your point of "this system sucks for men too" is even more relevant, since you could argue this system sucks for Jinshi and even the very emperor! Spoilers ahead for those who cares. The emperor valued and clearly loved Ah Duo to a point that he did all he could to keep her around, but because of the whole "we need an heir" debacle he can't just make her his wife and be done with it. The EMPEROR HIMSELF is constrained by the fact that he cannot take an infertile woman as his wife. Then there's Jinshi, who by being the second most important person in the kingdom will be a walking talking political pawn for as long as he lives, and he hates it. Because of his status, he will have people wanting *him* to be the emperor instead of a newly born heir, he will be expected to marry a woman that is supposed to bring even more status. Except he wants no harm upon a newly born heir and is in the same predicament as Lakan in a bit of a twisted manner: While Lakan wanted a woman of intellect that was too expensive to him because of her education, Jinshi wants a woman of intellect that is too "below" him thanks to their massive gap in status. By just existing Jinshi is a massive thorn in Maomao's side thanks to his status bringing trouble and attention to her life as long as he's in it. He WANTS to be in her life, and if he ordered to have her he has the power to do so, but knows that as long as he's someone of power and status, Maomao will never want to be with him or find any happiness in the relationship. All he wants is to be with a woman he loves and that loves him back, and yet for all and BECAUSE of his power he can't even have that. As you said, this system really does suck for the love life.

[@ohw5306]

Well said ❤️

[@ramaluminus]

You dropped this 👑

[@thomasallen9974]

@@imranmeco3393 You are right but this is a small portion of it. If Maomao was capable of romance (which is unlikely given her mentality) she would be quite apprehensive about being with someone of such higher standing. Which nonromantically she already is. If it werent for Jinshi's ability to appeal to Maomao's quirky and or internal subversive desires (as much as she doesnt like getting involved in shit, she has a hard time ignoring a good mystery if its pharmaceutically related), Maomao would fade into obscurity as intended. Hell its because she has zero desire or even being offput by Jinshi that plays a huge role in why he finds her so attractive. If she likes him, its certainly not for any of his well known or even some of his secretive traits. She is the first person he has met that treats him like a person, and as anyone can attest to such a relationship its almost intoxicating to finally be seen for who you are and dare I say accepted for it

[@ebbingtime]

One of the things I love the most about The Apothecary Diaries' messaging (which is a tough pick from a LOT of things I love about this show's messaging) is how it makes a point of not placing the blame for a patriarchal society solely on the shoulders of a specific maliciously misogynistic man or group of men. We see through their interactions with the women in the setting, Maomao especially, that the most powerful men in the setting - the Emperor, Jinshi, Gaoshun, Lakan (voted World's Weirdest Feminist ten years running), as well as many others in positions lower down the ladder - are perfectly capable of and willing to acknowledge, defer to, and rely on the skills and competence of women. Regardless of Maomao's official status or position, pretty much everyone around her recognises that her actual job is a combination of doctor, detective, and scientific consultant, mainly kept on board as a lady-in-waiting and poison taster to assuage the doubts and concerns of those seeing the situation from the outside (especially with her poison taster job stopping her from being a poisoning threat) and to keep her in a position close to where the higher-ups need her. And yet, despite the fact that THE MOST POWERFUL MEN in the setting believe wholeheartedly in Girl Power(tm), the society in which they live, the society which these exact men RUN, is INCREDIBLY, OVERTLY sexist. The patriarchy is portrayed as a product of inertia, of thousands of years of societal misogyny having built up into a system so deeply entrenched that even those who sit at the very top of it find it self-evident that any meaningful effort to change it will be immediately responded to with scrutiny and distrust. In this way I think The Apothecary Diaries is maybe the most effective piece of media I've ever seen at showing exactly how you can be perfectly feminist on a personal level and still contribute to the patriarchy through societal passivity. I often come back to what Maomao thinks when she employs some basic tricks to keep herself warm at the garden party and suddenly everyone in the palace wants her to show them how to do it - that tradition can stifle even the most basic ideas on how to make things better. On a separate note, I also like that the show both displays the fact that the current Emperor is a good guy who is genuinely trying to make things better, and makes it abundantly clear that this is just a product of good luck, since the previous Emperor was quite awful in ways that have done damage that is still in the process of being disentangled (such as everything about Lishu's position). A good guy the current Emperor may be, but the show maintains the point that the existence of the position of Emperor is toxic in and of itself, regardless of who holds the seat.

[@plaza3825]

Haven't watched the show yet, but hearing the garden party anecdote hit me. Like, that could pass for a silly anime hijink, but the fact that it resonates so strongly with the themes feels really deliberate. Shows another level of competence from the author

[@NoNoDontTouchMeThere]

Why is your one comment a better explanation for this kind of subject then the entirety of this video?

[@mosesmm5473]

I think another strength of the writing for this anime is the fact it understands that women can't just be girl-bosses without serious push back. Make no mistake, it's important that women have self respect and confidence to call out BS but that means nothing if society isn't willing to listen and will actively punish them. Maomao is written like 90% of real people, she's NOT some MC, she DOESN'T have plot armour, she needs to be careful and patient as if she's not, she could very well lose her head. We see this when you Maomao puts the pieces together about a plot that could kill someone of high birth. She breaks character and runs the entire way to the temple and pleads for entry, and when she's naturally refused, she breaks character again by trying to goad the guard to let her through, implying that if he doesn't, he must be complicit. What does she get for that typical 'girl boss's moment? She smashed across the face with a club and nearly blacks out. She only gets through because Lakan stepped in and help. Like you say, most men are decent folk, but this scene highlights how people should help each other to confront and deal with issues like a gender divide in power. Ceaser's Ghost, I hope I worded this right

[@sugarzblossom8168]

Not like anime is not used to male characters being boybosses with little push back and female characters not always being the strongest.

[@twisty3858]

We also can’t forget the groups of women who also don’t understand feminism and dilute the messaging and coordination of the movement, there are women (who I don’t think genuinely believe their statements) that post content online about how they believe men should straight up just be superior again

[@fanboy50]

That second group in particular, seems like it belongs more with the men who see sexism, misogyny, and patriarchy in media and go "Wow that's awesome!". Sometimes, there's people that just believe that hierarchies are just and good, and that anyone who gets oppressed in those hierarchies deserves it. You can't use fiction to reach those people, because fiction like this is based on making you empathize with others and using that empathy to teach you something. But you can't do that with someone who aggressively rejects empathy and understanding. You just have to make sure they're outnumbered enough that they can't hurt people.

[@mewcrun6764]

I want more feminist content that isn't just "men tyrannically crush women, but this girl is powerful", because that's just...not true to most people's reality. Patriarchy isn't men stomping on women while the women struggle. There are ways where playing into harmful gender stereotypes like acting less competent in a male-dominated space, pretending to have a strong emotional reaction, or deferring to men can give women a measure of power, even if the women hate doing so, and even if they aren't "pick me"s. And most men don't think of women as literal property, they just don't see the inequality in how men and women are treated, and they can't see the baggage that women carry from that. "Girl power" is important for girls to hear, but I think adults of all genders should be able to see the complexity of the system as it is, how it lasts despite/because of well-meaning individuals, and examples of ways they can change the system, even on a small scale.

[@Ookamiryoshi]

Have you heard the good word of Utena?

[@mewcrun6764]

@@Ookamiryoshi Ooh, I have, but I was a bit too young to have any clue what was happening when I first tried to watch it. Time to give it another go, thank you!

[@sugarzblossom8168]

I feel like a problem comes when people think every story that does that is feminist. I am sure people don't think every story especially anime with an overpowered, edgy male main character that defeats everyone easily either men or women or both, they don't think of men's rights. I am mostly thinking of books. Sometimes, I simply want to read a book about an overpowered character with little physical struggle over others but an interesting enough plot and that character shouldn't have to be male for them not to get a massive amount of hate and criticism.

[@mewcrun6764]

@ I agree. I love my angsty, interesting, overpowered characters in power fantasies, but I can only think of a handful of women who fit that bill, and most are from YA and/or Brandon Sanderson. Not every story containing a (non-stock) female character should have to be making a statement on women as a whole - as you said, that’s never applied to individual male characters in the same way. Though honestly I think that’s a symptom of the issues feminism aims to address in the first place. Since men are considered the default in those stories, and men are stereotypically more active/less emotionally competent anyway, having that archetype as a woman becomes a design choice to either “make a male character female” or “make a female character act like a man”

[@foggy8298]

It should also be said that Maomao not openly voicing her complaints at the injustices she's facing leaves the door open for the viewers to do so instead, and everyone loves the conclusion they came up with, even if they were highly directed in coming to that conclusion.

[@leighwolf5349]

The dopamine response one receives from having an "Ah hah! I've spotted the clue(s)/issue(s)!" 🧐 (à la Sherlock Holmes) can be a powerful tool to open one's mind.

[@TheThunderbirdRising]

Yeah, but you still have the problem of guys who go "wow the systemic subjugation of women as portrayed in this media is really awful. Luckily *I* live in a society that is totally equitable and cool about women, so no need for further self reflection"

[@akamesama]

Yeah, I think that this point was a bit weak. It was even brought up that there is a chunk of the male audience that think that women have everything they need already. An allegory that is at least 100 years divorced from current experience won't reach them.

[@TindraSan]

yeh I can particularly see western male viewers be like "wow that sure happened way back when all the way over _there_ and was very awful, thank goodness I live in current day all the way over _here_ where those issues are not a thing"

[@Ayzev]

@@TindraSan To be fair, there are influences in daily life that mean to engrain precisely this view in people's minds.

[@siph0r154]

Of course. If one piece of art could change the collective effort of hundreds of years oppression we would live in a very different place. Sadly affecting change isn't as easy as to point out the flaws or recognising their perpetuation. Sure, a lot of people will not engage with AD or any sort of Art on that level, but it still warranted to praise it for its efforts. And since the audience for AD is actually quite big, probably would have been even bigger if it wouldn't have had to compete with Frieren of all Shows, it is to assume that it reached at least a few people who didn't already know. And small steps forward are better than none 😊

[@fictionarch]

Yeah, but that is a problem for any feminist work not set in the present.

[@tyrant-den884]

And it bears mention that the Matron of the Verrdigris House: Is still property of the guy who owns the house

[@aanrrat1354]

Shit really?! What the fuck

[@RitaSilva-nj6ek]

That's a good point. She is a former prostitute who became a brothel manager, if she didn't have good negotiation skills she would have already been kicked out onto the streets.

[@ghighi2]

I'm gonna be honest I was thinking of criticising this video in the first few minutes. At first I thought that the subject itself is ridiculous. Why talk about the male viewership in The Apothecary Diaries? It's a good show, that's why people are watching it. Why does gender matter so much since the show's plot doesn't have feminism and patriarhy as its main subject? I thought. Then I actually got to the analysis of the show and it made so much sense to me. I took everything in the show discussed in the video at face value. "Of course Maomao has to 'make' herself uglier not to get kidnapped" I thought. "Of course Ah-Duo is seen as worthless after she becomes infertile" I thought. "It was just proof of the show's maturity and realism". It never crossed my mind until this video that men don't think about these things as a part of daily life. To me it's just the obvious way life is, as a woman. Until this video, I believed that everyone just inherenly knew the fact that it's not just a problem of the individual but that the patriarchy makes violence against women to be more achievable. And I had come to the conclusion that the "wow this sucks but I'M not like that" types of men knew they were wrong but just chose to close their eyes and pretend the problem doesn't exist. Once again I'm reminded of how patriarchy makes it so easy for men to just not think about it ever. And in stark contrast, to women it's something inherently understood, to the point I couldn't comprehend the fact that men aren't aware of it. It's very depressing to be once again reminded that patriarchy inherently shields men while putting women to the forefront. Great video, by the way! edit for paragraph spacing :)

[@nobody3658]

My sister and I were talking about our grandfather in depth for the first time when we realized we had such different experiences with him. I knew he was a jerk and sexist, but just generally avoided him as I got older and hadn't thought much further than that. I 'knew' he didn't like women, but until it was MY sister, I hadn't any attitude but 'What can you do, he's part of that generation?' When I was a kid, I'd play punch bug in the car with him, talk about golf, not even being aware he'd told my sister she was garbage, that she didn't belong outside a kitchen, didn't even think to ask how he felt about her, as he never said anything explicit in front of me. It didn't occur to me that being family wouldn't protect her from that. I felt so stupid, like how could I be such a piece of shit not to think he'd let it all out on her when I wasn't there, how'd I not ask. She took it quiet, because after all, speaking up wouldn't change him. As you said, I'd had the "But I'm not like that" mindset, without realizing that mindset would still hurt the people around me even if I didn't directly participate in the sexism myself. This topic has to be brought up and discussed because people not directly impacted will forget how real and consistent of a problem it is, while those impacted daily may forget that it isn't universal and it isn't a factor in everyone's minds all the time

[@Mader-vz1zy]

Same. I'm definitely also in the "Wow that sucks, but I'M not like that."

[@chukyuniqul]

More achievable? Ok, no. If I were a woman I wouldn't have been jumped by two guys. If I was a woman, I wouldn't have violence against me justified as much. If I was a woman, people would actually give a damn. It's absolutely galling how people these days are so wrapped up in being the victim they outright ignore their own privilege. You've never gotten savaged by a stranger. I've had that attempted on me. If you're a woman sure enough you're a victim to those looking for prey, but if you're a man it's free game. Anyone for any reason can decide to get violent with you and you'll be lucky to get any help or sympathy. And sure, women also experience it but consider that a) no one should and b) that should be a point for you to go "huh, maybe we're not doing that much worse.". Wanna know why many men aren't misogynists but they don't care? Because we see YOU don't.

[@Rynamony]

It's sadly funny, but mostly really depressing, how women will talk about experiences like being catcalled or harrased or generally disrespected for being women, and all women will just nod their heads like "Yep, been there, it sucks but that's life". But if there's ever a guy present in the discussion he'll be like "Wow! I can't believe that happened to you! That's so fucked up!! Holy shit!!" ...And then all the girls will look at each other in a way that makes it clear we are all thinking the same thing: "My dear male friend. Are you fucking stupid?" Because like. I know their life experiences makes it hard for guys to be aware of these things, and I know guys also have issues women don't, like being judged as weak for being emotional, having a hard time feeling wanted, and a general lack of support networks. But also come the fuck on. It's not like we're talking about any nuanced topic that requires someone to read an essay to become aware of. Oftentimes guys get surprised by the most basic of things, like, again, just the fact women get catcalled, they're like "Oh gosh! I can't believe it happened to you!" and it's like, are you blind? Are you fucking blind? Have you never walked on the street in your entire life???

[@chukyuniqul]

@Rynamony apparently not cuz I never saw this shit. Might have to do with me being in a civilized community where this is uncommon enough to not run into. Also, here's a fun game: fuck do you expect me, as a hypothetical man in a place where these kindsa things happen, to do that is concise, clear, proactive and actionable? Cuz ngl, I'm beyond sick and tired of being made out as part of the problem without being given such an answer.

[@noampresnete8677]

kind of funny to see the pinned comment after you spent like 4 of the 28 minutes in this long video just to make clarifications. after looking at the rest of the comments, you kinda dug yourself into a hole by disscussing (the incrdibly intresting and rarely disscussed) issue of how men react to feminist retoric. the fact that you are looking at this show from a male pov as a male invites the worst type of discourse. this is one of your best videos ever and somehow managed to discuss such a large topic in only 30 minutes (which is low in this youtube biosphere). the only sad thing about this video is that so many of the feminist clarifications are in the begining which makes it harder to recomend to the people that need to hear it the most. love your videos, if it's you i don't mind waiting a year for a video :)

[@lillyrichter3383]

I second this!

[@The_carrot_man]

I have not watched apothecary diaries, not because I think it's bad but because I read all currently released light novels in a month. Apothecary diaries is beyond peak

[@EvilMastermindOfDoom]

I haven't seen this show, so I can't comment on this aspect specifically, but I think this is in incredibly important topic with much more nuance than you can cram into a half hour video essay. We're talking dissertation level, if you _really_ want to get into it. Before I get into that essay, I do think there's a part of the cultural environment that needs to be acknowledged when we talk about feminism, representation, and diversity in current media: The landscape is divisive. A group of conservative grifters has made it their calling to absolutely lose their shit any time a woman (or other minority) ever appears on their screen. The woke mob, fucking pronouns, etc etc. You've heard it, you're tired of it. The idea of a man sitting down to watch a show about women for women has become so polarized, that anything resembling the idea of virtue signaling (woman has opinion, is not flawlessly beautiful, competes with male character, has below a D cup) can unleash a massive shitstorm. So producing any piece of media today with actual overt feminist messaging is just a risk production companies aren't super excited for. Which is a shame, because I genuinely believe we need more angles of feminism and female characters represented. There's a difference between "feminist media" and "media with women in it" that too many people haven't even grasped. (this would be a whole side tangent about representation and straight white male as "default" in narratives, but comment long enough. Leaving it at "viewers believe there are disproportionately too many women if they make up more than a third of the cast.") As a former woman and current feminist, I've seen and enjoyed a lot of "girlpower" media. And it is true that a disproportionate part is "this one girl boss really shows up the patriarchy by being a boss and a girl". There's more layers in play here than just "yass girlboss". Offensively countering the patriarchy by screaming at it is a) more entertaining b) much, much easier to write and c) neatly tucks away societal responsibility. If all it takes to overcome the patriarchy is to try really hard and act in the way a guy would (ie being aggressive, assertive, and potentially misogynistic), then clearly there's no overarching systemic problem, and therefore women who are oppressed simply aren't trying to stop being oppressed. This category of "she can do it _even though_ shes a girl" is becoming less popular, but we've had a lot of them in the 2000s-2010s. Often comes paired with "not like other girls, shes one of the guys". On the other end of the spectrum, we have the feminine feminist archetype. She's quiet, meaning she suffers in silence. She uses her wits to solve problems, rather than confront them head on. This often leads to her relying on other people. None of these things are condemnable, least of all in complex media, but they are heavily leaning on what a "good woman" is. This character won't take up space in the narrative, even becoming a side character in her own story, and this makes it possible for anyone who isn't down to analyze the themes and messaging of a piece of media to completely ignore her and what she stands for. At the same time, this runs the risk of reinforcing stereotypes. Stop for a moment and try to list female characters whose contribution to a team wasn't her brain while some guy brings the brawns (and no brain of his own). There's also something to be said about how we hold female characters to much higher standards. They have to be perfect both from a meta perspective and in universe to justify their inclusion in the story. There's more in between and outside this spectrum, but you didnt come here to read an essay. The crux of the matter is that all of these archetypes are important and deserve to be seen in balance with each other. Sometimes you have to shout at some dickhead misogynist. Sometimes you have to play the long game. Sometimes you want to look drop dead gorgeous. Sometimes you want to wear sweatpants. Some women are mastermind girlbosses and some are cringefail losers (affectionate). Men get to have all sorts of these representations of themselves. Women deserve them too. And so the TLDR is: Female characters need to be allowed to just be characters. And some of these characters will be telling stories about the patriarchy and feminism. But until we get over the idea that a story featuring women and targeted at women is innately alienating to male viewers (when the inverse isnt true: male stories are "for everyone"), we're not going to have a lot of productive feminist discussion in and about media. To end on a high note: Arcane is a fantastic show featuring a majority female main cast. I'd consider it one of the leading examples of letting female characters be characters, while neither focusing on nor erasing their femininity. (Comment is specifically about feminism but applies to all marginalized groups, including other gender identities outside the binary)

[@zacharybosley1935]

There's a point of intersection with the trouble that emerges with racialized characters as well.

[@EvilMastermindOfDoom]

@zacharybosley1935 Oh 1000%. That's why intersectionality in feminism is so incredibly important. It's also something that could easily be improved by allowing more minority creators into the mainstream to tell their own stories, but will unfortunately run into the same anti-woke mob issue (but worse, typically) If it wasn't such a massive undertaking, I would absolutely write my thesis on it, but the scope is too big for any prof to approve it lol

[@yellowsnake7300]

Love love loooooove this comment 💙💙💙 Also, I highly recommend the Apothecary Diaries! This video speaks about it through a specific lens, but it has a lot of things going for it even if you don’t look at it through a feminist lens! Making a statement about feminism is not the main point of the story, but rather a constant through line that informs the narrative. Above all else, it’s just a really well written and compelling story! And Maomao is an absolutely amazing protagonist, and many viewers would attribute their enjoyment of the show to her. She definitely commandeds the spotlight! And many will say that their love for her character is enhanced by her being a woman, but not because of it. She’s just a compelling character, period!

[@coughme]

I second the Apothecary Diaries recommendation, it's an amazing show in it's own right

[@absoul112]

I had no clue Ouran had so few male watchers (myself included). Also I bet this comment section is going to be absolutely normal about the contents of the video. Edit: well this is a dark timeline.

[@siph0r154]

@@absoul112 Oh how right you were. But I was also surprised by the apparent low male viewership of Ouran. I really wanna see the data. So curious where it comes from.

[@mek101whatif7]

I think I dropped it after a certain point and I don't even remember why

[@nightazday7988]

I'm surprised too

[@NoNameAtAll2]

> I bet this comment section is going to be absolutely normal video started with political ad what else can you expect?

[@absoul112]

@ true, though I think the rest of the video’s subject matter is more likely to cause wars in the comments.

[@zapphattack7716]

Though it'd be far more adequate to write a properly long and composed response to your essay, for the sake of internet digestible brevity I'll be as short as I can with such broad themes. That men have the privilege to escape the burdens and awareness of the role of their gender in society is a luxury women don't share. It's obviously exhausting to feel vilified when seeking entertainment or art, but such entertainment and art have a tendency to pander to men's escapism with little regard to how it alienates or discomfits the female audience. It's a moot point to praise what you describe as "feminist" writing for being accessible when "regular" media tends to avoid any single discomfort for their male audience while touting worldbuilding, plot points, camera angles, visual designs etc that only remind women of one of their demeaning roles in an unequal society. Female characters are often decently written, but do remember that good writing in a female perspective often demands some sort of exploration on the effects of patriarchy as sexism on their personal development, if not merely the world around these characters. Men are untethered, while women's existence often is fundamentally shaped by the interference of these oppressive structures on their lives. They are the ones who fear walking alone at night due to being women, not due to being alone or it being night in itself. As well, women are frequently reminded that they ought the settle for empathizing and identifying with male characters despite their differences, to take each character in a case by case basis. Meanwhile if a single male ego or self-perception of moral integrity is collaterally damaged in the pursuit of conveying an authentic story of a female experience, it hurts the male viewer's capacity for compassion. In a childish example, are we to believe every stepmother in the world is being fair in feeling offended at the trope of the evil stepmother in fairytales and children's stories? If you are a good mother, you have no reason to feel offended, and you have every bit the emotional capacity to put yourself in Cinderella's shoes instead of huffing at the portrayal of her stepmother. As such, men are allowed to feel vulnerable at the thought of being seen negatively, but to close yourself off to the rest of a piece of art due to your own ego is immature and denies you the enriching experience of variety. Perhaps it's simply a cornerstone of this entire societal issue that men don't have the visceral lived experience of women, and therefore have a hard time engaging with these matters without feeling either indignant or depressed by this encompassing concept that one sex is systemically committing acts of violence against another, regardless of the intentions of the members of that group. Just as well, if it's emotionally devastating to be the oppressor, I would argue that shedding that pride and protectiveness over your own identity and self-perception would allow men to see past their own sorrows and glean how painful it is for women to exist as the oppressed. Usually this empathetic exchange has its wheels greased by other intersecting identities, such as sexuality, class or ethnicity, where placing yourself in the role of the oppressed is easier through personal experience. I suppose all this is to say that all your points are correct and understandable, just restricted to a superficial layer of feminist discussion. It's still a dialogue arrested by the role of the individual man in feminist discussion and theory, a "feminism for men: class 1" sort of exploration.

[@blacKKorat]

This! Thank you for writing that! I have been thinking about what bothered me a lot of the time in discussions with people who could see and acknowledge sexism in media as an existing concept in general, but whenever an example of a piece of media is brought up that doesn't depict the comically villainous, clunky kind of sexism, but rather the normalised, almost casual kind of sexism, they excuse it with ignorance on the author's part or with it being used as a selling point of the title (why is "sex sells" always brought up as a counter argument to sexism?? what kind of logic is that?) or with it being a norm of the genre or ...anything, really. There's so so so much excusing away sexism (especially in the anime and manga community, at times). The impression I got from discussions of that sort was that while people can spot and identify sexism, they often "choose not to see it"? Instead any excuse under the sun will be brought up, no matter how fantastical it gets. Your comment puts that into perspective for me. Seriously considering printing it out and framing it! 😂

[@HansLemurson]

The big disconnect I see is that most women have NO IDEA just _how oblivious_ and emotionally immature men are. Extremely basic "explain it like I'm 5" level feminism is absolutely essential, no matter how infuriating it is that men seem to "willfully ignore the obvious". Yes. Men ARE that dense.

[@TincanProduction]

Wow. I've never read a comment that was able to put what I was thinking into such precise words before. Thank you

[@seasaltmemories]

I'm surprised that for a video all about The Apothecary Diaries' male audience you never mention it is a seinen series. Like it is aimed directly at adult men, even if it has a female protag and talks about women's issues, what makes it a seinen is likely the very reasons you outline, but this wasn't just an incidental fluke. Which also adds to the weirdness of comparing it to Shirayuki bc on top of that being a shoujo, so much of your complaints come down to one being for a younger audience than the other. Like it is should be the norm that the show for teens will have more simplistic messaging and themes than one for adults. But even further, past its opening premise, I would never define Shirayuki as being about women's issues. Yeah the theme isn't as developed bc that is not really a driving theme of the story. Really it seems like its inclusion is only to point out men don't like it when women actively resist their oppression in stories? Which like I agree appealing to men isn't a bad thing, but you believe that because of this its feminist messaging will be more impactful to men and get them to think, while Shirayuki won't. But there is really no evidence that just bc men are watching Apothecary Diaries they are absorbing the feminist messaging. You praise its subtlety and lack of preachiness but those factors also make it just as likely to be ignored. Progressive media that is a lot more loud about it has swathes of conservative fans. So I am not sure what this video accomplishes besides saying "if woman's issues come up men prefer it if women are shown as passive to their circumstances and men's feelings are given a spotlight." And like that is the status quo my dude. If you wanted to do real comparative feminist analysis, Revolutionary Girl Utena is the shoujo series to look at, as it has very nuanced depictions of patriarchy and shows how men also suffer from it in an empathetic way, but I imagine it doesnt have nearly the same male audience bc you can never ignore the fact it is about that (among other reasons of course).

[@Ookamiryoshi]

Utena mention 👍👍👍

[@pastryglitch1415]

This was exactly my thought as well, even down to Utena being a better show to compare to. Snow White with the Red Hair was such an odd choice because, as he said, it's a show for a younger demographic, it's not going to handle its themes in the same way a show intended for older teens/adults would. Why not compare it to something with the same age demographic? Also I'm sorry but if a man (even these "good men" in group 2 that he mentions) can't even handle a girl cutting her hair as symbolism because its too "preachy", I doubt many of them are fully grasping and appreciating the subtleties of Apothecary diaries. (and I'm not saying there aren't any shows that are way too preachy with banal "girl power!" messages that lack depth, I've seen plenty in western shows, but I would NOT count Snow White among those.) I don't even necessarily disagree with the main thesis of the video but Snow White was such a bad comparison to make that I feel like it really took away from the point he was trying to make.

[@LittleBlackFoxInali]

I'd also let Ooku put it's hat in the ring as a better comparison than Snow White with the Red Hair; it's josei instead of shojo but also probably has the same numbers of male viewers (that is to say almost none). Edit: just double checked and it is actually a shojo, my bad 😅

[@bargainbincatgirl6698]

Sorry, but Shirayuki is a manga and an anime from 13 years ago and the manga is still running. Revolutionary Girl Utena was an anime series that ran 27 years ago. I think you can't blame him for not referencing Utena when he was barely alive when it ran.

[@ActuallyAnanya]

​@@bargainbincatgirl6698you know people can watch older series right? My favourite romance anime came out when I was less than 1 year old, and I'm almost 27. Utena is a staple of anime, particularly with regards to the themes of feminism and gender. Loads of people bring up older shows like Evangelion when talking about new ones. I mean, people still bring up Shakespeare when discussing tragedy stories.

[@DiscordedFox]

I picked a bad day to watch this. Less than a minute in and I'm already existential.

[@patring303]

This video hits at a personal level because I was the second type of guy. The one who understands that rape and SA is bad but I don’t do it and my friends don’t do it so why am I to blame. So like you said, when a feminist came in with the loudspeaker to say “being a women sucks” it’s like, yeah, no shit? It wasn’t until Shaun’s video on how men suffer under patriarchy and becoming good friends with a group of women that I realized what patriarchy actually meant. And it’s honestly driven me nuts once I understood that because I realized that a slight change in rhetoric would probably make feminism the default position in the US. Screaming “being a woman sucks” works as therapy to just feel heard like how men feel heard with “it’s ok to cry”, but both suck at addressing the actual issues at hand to people that don’t understand. Hope more shows take this route and love the video

[@Nassifeh]

I think a core problem here is that men assume that feminist women are the reason that so much "feminist" media is just hit-you-over-the-head stuff? But a notable part of this, here, is how Snow White with the Red Hair is marketed, for example. It's a thing for teenage girls. Why isn't there more mature stuff made for you, though? Well, look at how anime and Western media are both run largely depending on the interests of huge corporations run by very rich cis men. These things don't exist in a vacuum. Women are not the ones being too shrill and keeping other good stories away from you. It's not that nobody ever comes up with better stories! It's that, by and large, the stories you're getting are either filtered by the need to get that rich guy to publish them. Or they're made in some really indie venue that isn't even targeting you as an audience because they don't have the budget for the marketing to try to reach you. If you start deliberately going out and searching out more indie comics and games that are made by women (and POC and LGBTQ people, for example) without that level of corporate funding, then you will find that they are a completely different landscape of stories. But also largely, no, they aren't going to show up on your radar as a 24-episode seasonal anime produced by a major animation studio.

[@TheSpeep]

One way I kinda like putting it is that patriarchy splits society into two groups; Women, whom it refuses to treat as fully human, and men, whom it does not allow to act as fully human.

[@nekobyoneko444]

1. Love forensic medical sciences. 2. Love history dramas. 3. MaoMao is a science gremlin who I vibe with wholeheartedly. 4. Aoi Yuki.

[@sfjuhispst8144]

For me: 1. I like detective stuff (I read a lot of Agatha Christie in middle school) 2. I like historical fiction (I read Mika Waltari in highschool). It was over before I even could see it coming.

[@valerian_e_song]

it never stops being (unfortunately) REALLY refreshing to have you in the anime review space, because you bring a lot of nuance and empathy to the table that is earnestly comforting in a sea of guys who, at best, think that misogyny is bad but that feminism already fixed it. it sucks that what you're doing is subversive in this community but i'm grateful for it nonetheless. never stop being the GOAT

[@zeemod1556]

It also helps that Apothecary Diaries tries to be realistic mystery/political drama so it can't sacrifice its way of sharp unimpeachable dialogue for fanciful wishfulfilment stuff the way that Snow White with the Red Hair absolutely can, because it is a flowery romance story first and political commentary story second. This is why I'd be interested in other statistics comparing m/f viewership of other shoujo/josei at the top of the video. Regardless, the way you explain how the anime speaks to men speaks for itself. Regardless of genre. Though if Apothecary Diaries used its politics-first story structure with Snow White's approach to dialogue I wonder if the show would work for anyone?

[@Solstice261]

I mean as a man (I think, might actually be non-binary, long live identity crisis I guess) I loved this show and later the novels, not because it appealed to a male viewer (I legitimately think it's hard to appeal to a gender) but because it's a thriller with detective shenanigans and herbalism about eating plants which effects you barely understand (an activity I endorse greatly). Honestly it's about the characters, Mao Mao is incredibly relatable specially to me (an autistic individual who likes plants and their effects and just tries to leave situations they don't like) and even if you don't find her relatable, she's still likeable, the side-cast also is very entertaining with all the rear palace and the eunuchs being very fun, sure the setting could be more fleshed out but I don't really care much about it, it's ancient china, we all sort of get the idea. It's weird, it's a drama where most characters are likeable instead of the cesspool of treachery most dramas of this kind end up being. Add on top of that the anime doing a great job transmiting mao mao's dedication and interest in herbalism with relatively deep stories with some dark stuff. And you get a show men will watch because turns out that men are also people and have more interest than weird power fantasies with harems, hell for ace people those might be straight up out of consideration. Anyways in short watch/read apothecary diaries, it's very good and fun. (Oh god this is a long rant) Now, about the video feminism and all that, while it is true that there is certainly a fair bit of feminist discussion and stuff with women being capable yet being depicted as capable but restricted by the society they live in. I reckon most men who don't already share that viewpoint will fail to make the connection with present day issues believing that machism was solved with female suffrage (an obvious simple way of seeing issues and if you feel attacked because you believe that and think that feminism is no longer needed then good, you need to be brought to reality), however those people might still perfectly enjoy the show since by many reasons said it is good beyond just being a good depiction of several strong female characters in several ways (we have a lot from the typical using her qualities by being woman to control inderictly that which society doesn't allow her to, and smart characters, and probably many other facets of the strong female character that isn't just a damsel in distress), still I imagine a lot of people will ignore the parts of the show they disagree with in an ideological level if they see fit. While the theory that the reason male audiences have been more tolerant with this show is because of a more passive role on behalf of the main character ( A point that is certainly there), I believe the show just being good and having likeable characters has more to do with it. I like to think the majority of the male population don't begin to convulse in traditionalism at the presence of feminism in a show. As many other comlenters have said I find the conclusion not great since by moving away from the problems of equality we really face. It becomes easy to ignore the feminist message, in lur western culture women are opressed in much subtler ways than just simply not being able to access any work beyond marriage and servant. There is the salary gap, the prejudice the assumption that they can't be intelligent because of themselves. Those are problems in today's society a lot of people ignore and will likely keep ignoring well after watching it even if they agreed the society the characters were in was unfair

[@PropagandaDS]

I think the other part of Maomao's focus on playing with drugs being her main motivation is that men are used to doing things actively destructive to themselves for fun. (Not to say that woman don't, but men are more used to it and it is more accepted in society for men to)

[@Solstice261]

Honestly I read that as a hypefixation more than anything, in any case that would appeal to all the ADHD and autistic people in the demographic

[@KoiPuff]

I found it weird that you included Myne from Ascendance of a Bookworm in the “Other not as good” feminist girls. Because she actually THE MOST like Mao Mao out of all of them. She’s proactive in one specific thing but otherwise keeps her head down. Every time she DOES stick her neck out she inevitably LOSES something precious (The first two big ones are her freedom and family) She can be the strongest Mage currently living but she’s a peasant girl so she’s forced to live doing everything the nobility/church tells her to. In the first season Myne’s friend tells her she’s basically being forced to marry an old noble in exchange for a life saving device. And Myne is inwardly horrified but it’s just seen as normal; that the friend is actually lucky. It never shoves “Girl power!” In your face. It’s actually way more interested in Class dynamics. That the peasantry is full of talented hardworking people but they’re trapped in the city they were born and might even DIE of a completely treatable issue so that the Nobility can keep control.

[@FakeFailsafe]

Not gonna lie, I was really hoping you'd just keep stacking pngs on top of each other in the same frame

[@TheOnlyTrueDedicated]

As a reader of the LNs, you’re probably going to want to have an addendum for this video essay following the upcoming season 2 of The Apothecary Diaries. Not to give things away, but it touches on some of the worse aspects of the current emperor’s predecessor which helped to shape the Rear Palace into what we saw in season 1.

[@jpickens189]

I have literally watched both Ouran and Konosuba with a member of their less common demographic in the room. The response to Ouran was genuinely more negative despite it being (imo) a much more competent show.

[@ActuallyAnanya]

Of course it was. Women who watch anime outside of shoujo have been primed by years and years of "anime-isms" in series that pander to guys that questionable things in isekai/harem/comedy shows don't even make us bat an eye. Compare this to men who will statistically have much less exposure to media aimed at women, often due to their own internal biases (subconscious or not) against said media, and they're going to have bad responses. Especially to a series so entrenched in parodying the genre it is part of, like Ouran.

[@siph0r154]

@@jpickens189 I am actually curious, if you are willing to share in more detail, what kind of negativity you noticed/was expressed. I am asking as a man who, by all accounts adores Ouran and has no significant feelings towards Konosuba besides: "I have yet to watch more than 2 episodes since the overall comedy aspect doesn't appeal to me"

[@jpickens189]

@@MxPokirby Apparently it made him feel very uncomfortable, and I don't remember him having much of anything positive to say about it. I just don't think objectification of male characters is nearly as normalized, especially 10+ years ago, so it must have been a very weird experience.

[@jpickens189]

@@siph0r154 I should have tagged you in the above comment, woops. It was a while ago but I don't know if the person in question knew specifically what made him uncomfortable about it, just that it bothered him significantly.

[@braidedribbon]

This is an interesting perspective. One that I wouldn't have thought of myself because I'm already aware of many of the feminist issues the show brings up. But an important factor of communicating is the ability to communicate in a way that will be understood by more than just one audience. Though, I don't think Apothecary Diaries was created to be able communicate in this broader way but is rather it can communicate in this way because it is a well-written and engaging story. Often "why do we need a study to say that water is wet?"-type sentiments start being thrown around in complicated conversations. It's so easy to forget that not everyone will have the same knowledge and understanding on a subject. The kind of situations that you mention (18:18) where the system is laid out and demonstrated as the problem without creating easily dismissed cartoonish villains because they layout the ground work, the "water is wet" study or the reality that any girl can be dragged into an ally, before showing that it's a complicated issue. A couple of other comments also mention how Apothecary Diaries is considered a seinen series. There is a video by Shojo's Bizarre Adventure called "Is The Apothecary Diaries Anime "Shojo Coded"?" that is a clipped segment from their podcast. It looks at Apothecary Diaries' classification. The novel started targeting a female demographic. When it was picked up by a publisher that only had a seinen publication, its classification was changed. So, on the other hand, is Apothecary Diaries' ability to engage with men because it was marketed towards men? The narrative makes it clear that MaoMao is in a dangerous position. But she is not being passive about it. Passive is probably not the best word for the type of protagonist she is though I do understand some of it's use here. MaoMao is working in the system and is not trying to change it. She actively tries to stay out of view of the powerful people at the start because interacting with powerful people when you have no power yourself is dangerous. When she catches people's attention despite her efforts, she needs to live up to these expectation they're putting on her and she does. Then, in the sleepwalking story, she keeps that final hypothesis to herself because it's a small thing she can do to help; giving away a "faulty" woman is one thing but allowing a concubine to leave just because she loves someone is another. MaoMao works to protect herself and, when she finds herself caring about the other people around her, she often chooses to empower them in whatever small ways she can. But she does it quietly. Which is, in my opinion, a better way to describe the type of character she is. I wonder if that quiet effort and care is what appeals to Apothecary Diaries' male audience. That seeing and acknowledging terrible things doesn't mean that one needs to act in a big way to solve all the problems all at once. That everyone is just trying to live. That it's okay to just do small things because those small things can add up. This was a fun video, thank you for sharing. The perspective of how men listen to feminism really was interesting. And that way Apothecary Diaries has of communicating using lived experiences is probably very important to how it can be those good feminist realizations without also coming across as another "baby's first feminist theory" brick to the face.

[@kerisuri]

When I read the title of this video, I immediately thought "Well, it probably appeals to men because it's a period piece, and men think that all the systemic oppression women face is a thing of the past, and also, Mao Mao doesn't try to fight her situation like the dreaded "girl boss" that men seem to hate."

[@azkon7975]

I find it hilarious that you mention Maomao would never run up the steps to shout at a guard about a huge problematic issue. .... Because she did exactly that, once, in the novel/manga. It was heart wrenchingly ineffective. The guard beat her to get her to leave. It was an incredibly painful scene. Despite her having the ears of some of the most powerful figures in the palace, her low status meant that not even a mere guard would listen to her. I still get upset at the guard in that scene. I don't remember the details but it was something that was a matter of life or death. She debated whether or not she actually wanted to run up to the guard to get him to let her in. She knew she would be turned away. However, she decided that she had to at least try. Her conscience wouldn't let her not take action. So she ran up and tried to reason with the guard. The guard turned her away. She insisted that he at least deliver a message and the guard punched her in the face. In the end, she had to leave quietly. There was literally nothing to be done. I think she had to go searching for someone with authority that she is friendly with. Or maybe she tried to do that first but could not find anyone in a timely manner. I don't think the guard got punished either? It's been a while since I've read it.

[@ghoulchan7525]

Isn't that followed up by her saving someone from getting crushed once she got the ability to get through?

[@azkon7975]

@ghoulchan7525 I think she found Rihaku and managed to get through, IIRC.

[@sethharrington1796]

She ended up getting in because lakan was there to lend her his own authority. And because of lakans relationship with maomao that's kinda spoilers, I don't doubt for one second that the guard was punished in some way. Lakan is one of the most powerful people in the country, not just because of status but because of ability. Its almost canon that anything he wants done will get done because he's just that good. If he wants that guard to spend the rest of his life out in the boonies he probably will.

[@Birthday888]

​@@sethharrington1796 The author of the series basically all but confirmed that the guard was beaten and tortured by Lakan. But she also said that the guard also gets promoted sometime in the next two years for being so "hard working". Which y'know. Is definitely not a veiled statement or commentary of any sort. XD

[@Terrafissa]

He... did highlight that event, though. It's late in the video, but ExPt does talk about it and specifically mentions Maomao getting clubbed in the face.

[@tyrant-den884]

Well I like seeing good autistic representation. There's more reasons, but that's the main one. Hasn't been that good since Netflix cancelled Dead End.

[@Roeclean]

Interesting, she doesn't seem autistic to mean, just extremely passionate about "apothecary "

[@brunoverasferreira6263]

...what?

[@tyrant-den884]

@@brunoverasferreira6263 what are you "what"-ing? What do you fail to comprehend? Maomao, and frankly her entire family, are solid representations of varying portions of the autistic spectrum. I then mentioned they are the best portrayals I have seen since the animated Netflix series Dead End, based on the comic series Deadendia, who's character Norma Khan I still hold up as the best portrayal of autism in media.

[@calvinwill1663]

@@tyrant-den884 I don't think Maomao is considered autistic, just has different interests and mindsets then usual people. There's also the fact that fiction authors exaggerate certain traits of the characters they write. If Maomao and my extension her family is considered autistic then 90% of anime characters can also be considered autistic, which I don't think are those authors' intentions.

[@Auron313]

@@calvinwill1663 U answered yourself there.

[@Dialga9187]

As Lakan's daughter, she is technically high-born. As Lakan's daughter, she is most certainly on the 'ol spectrum. Most of her issues with navigating social situations stem from that. An interesting feature of the theme of beauty as status is that it is mainly explored within the domain, and critical lense, of women. At the self-aware risk of sounding like a certain infamous Canadian and/or people for whom his content remains adjacent to the 'I am fourteen and this is deep' crowd, I will say that too heavy an emphasis is made on makeup and clothing in Apothecary Diaries as the main avenue by which beauty is derived. The counter-argument I fear is Maomao herself using it as a means by which to keep herself safe, something which the realist in me (yikes, the self-awareness hits once more) is doubtful was helping, beyond the text itself insisting so.

[@RitaSilva-nj6ek]

Yeah, i understand what the narrative was trying to do, because chinese beauty standards place great emphasis on clear, porcelain-like, blemish-free skin. Therefore, even though in the West freckles can be seen as cute and charming, they would be perceived as an imperfection in the anime setting. But it still feels like the author's justification for Maomao to have a conversation about sexual assault with Jinshi. Is very unrealistic to think that a drunk guy on the streets in the middle of the night would not rape a girl just because she has freckles.

[@Dialga9187]

@@RitaSilva-nj6ek "She thought she ate"

[@Axel_Karell]

In other words sometimes the more effective way to communicate that oppression is bad is not to show someone fighting against it but by showing someone just living it. Writing this comment I’m realizing this is kind of what makes Andor interesting as well. In that show even characters that are actively fighting the system are doing so in secret and constantly feeling the oppression and having to act around it.

[@birdonerd7194]

You know what I really don't gat? Mens aversion to romance. Or specifically, romance written by a woman aimed for women or young girls. I don't understand why the lack of romance between Maomao and Jinshi (I'm heavily biased since I love them) is a 'good' thing of attracting male viewership.

[@cadweirdness6133]

Probably because god forbid women have fun. But actually on a more serious level, romance has been traditionally marketed towards women for so long it's one of those things that is just seen as a "girlie" thing like how dresses or dolls have been so gendered that it's only now people are breaking the trend of only women having them. Men see romance as feminine because it's almost always about feelings and mostly women focus on that /s Its bullshit but it's one of those things that has been so gendered trying to detangle it from being girlie is a fucking nightmare

[@mahogania5536]

while I don't have a problem with their relationship from a dramatic perspective, Maomao's reactions to Jinshi's advances really take it down some good pegs from the "romance" category no matter how fond the thoughts of the protagonist could be, if they only express displeasure at the love interest and never want to engage with their antics... why would I want to watch their romance bloom?

[@vivvy_0]

it makes male viewers sad because they aren’t hot bishi's

[@jamfingers55]

@@vivvy_0 I mean, I don't speak for everyone, but that's one of the reasons for me at least

[@fanboy50]

@@jamfingers55 same tbh, I know I can't compete with that and it makes me sad. Edit to add: For OP, though: I don't think men are actually all that averse to romance (and, fwiw, there *isn't* really a lack of romance between Maomao and Jinshi, Maomao's just super in denial and reluctant to acknowledge the developing relationship there); speaking as a straight (or at least straight-ish) male, I really like the focus on Maomao and Jinshi's relationship. I think the difference is that men's experience with romance (at least WRT anime/manga) is written by other straight men that is... uh, let's just rip the bandaid off here... often not very compelling. So the prospect of a story primarily focused on romance, told from the perspective of a non-male writer and protagonist, seems to a lot of straight men like they're not going to be able to relate to the protag or the story. Obviously, in practice, that's not true, but I think it causes a lot of early turn-off that prevents straight guys from realizing that's not true. And, I will admit I'm biased here, but while a story that's primarily a romance often hits the spot, in most stories you want other things going on, and there's a perception (again, not necessarily a fair one) that a work that leads with its romance isn't going to have much else going on. Apothecary Diaries bucks that by soft-pedaling the romance early until the audience knows the characters and is invested and has gotten engrossed in the larger plot and setting before Maomao and Jinshi's relationship starts getting more focus.

[@ilhemtounsi4571]

Your video is phenomenal, thank you for making it. Even though as you said it's people understanding feminism that are most likely to watch this video, i really hope still that it will help people realize the importance of it/what it is.

[@ojok12]

I first watched Snow White With Red Hair when I was in middle school and did not consider its feminist themes until watching this video. also this is a pretty good explanation on why AD is amazing getting men to engage with feminist ideas. good work

[@rune_ined]

As someone who is non-binary but functionally exists as a women because of societal perceptions, this video is very interesting to me. I live in the Philippines, which by my experience, has an okay amount of gender equality. Okay, but not great either. But of course, my lived experience is much more different from the common experience because of a variety of factors (education, location, role models in life, outing habits, etc.). Heck, we don't even have abortion or divorce. I don't know how we've gone on this long when people are doing it anyways, regardless of legality. This video made me realize that, despite having basically lived as a woman my entire life, I somehow ended up with a similar perspective to the men that go "this doesn't apply to me". Sure, I know that misogyny exists. But sometimes the way that it's portrayed in the media that I consume tips a bit too far on the archaic side, that it becomes unrealistic to me. But it's not, because it is literally still happening today. The closest comparison I can think of this is the Kdrama "True Beauty". It's definitely realistic for the setting. South Korean society really is like that for girls. But because the entire concept of getting bullied for having a normal teenage face, and even being able to wear makeup in school to such extreme degrees is so foreign to me that I'm unable to relate. Maybe it's some internalized misogyny on my part, a lack of self-awareness, a normalization of behaviors, or some combination but I sure am gonna do a lot of introspection after this. I think one thing that helped ground me to what's actually happening is looking at the statistics from the Global Gender Gap Report. It's really shocking how large the gap is in different professions.

[@leahmcpherson7560]

I am genuinely impressed with your dedication to both your humor and your research. I am grateful for your empathy. It is a rare and beautiful intelligence to share with others. This was a great video and i look forward to more. Thank you.

[@PeterPan-dz7mu]

What surprised me even more was that in the Reddit seasonal survey for fall last year the show "Pluto" came back with the solid majority of viewers being females - Pluto is a sausage fest. And it's not even the attractive Ikemen shipping-playground like JJK and the likes. Yet the ladies love watching Pluto.

[@Rynamony]

Makes sense tbh, Pluto is all about characters' feelings and interpersonal relationships. The main plot is about a mystery and political drama, sure, but there's not a single episode that doesn't have some character sadly monologuing about their family and their feelings and their place in the world, all the important characters are deeply empathetic one way or another, and the final conflict is basically solved by power of friendship. We love those kinds of artsy introspective shows that spend half their runtime exploring the bonds between people

[@Nassifeh]

Kids learn from *very* young childhood that stories about boys are for everybody and stories about girls are for girls. Not a personal dig, but I'm genuinely not sure how men manage to really go through their whole lives never having noticed this was a thing, especially if you've lived through the era of Harry Potter.

[@nathagar9251]

@@Nassifeh very much this; women see men’s media all the time but men almost never see women’s media. It seems like every now and then something feminine (cough, twilight, cough) breaks through that gendered media barrier and men interact with it, and we all collectively lose our minds.

[@DeathnoteBB]

10:58 “While Maomao sees helping people as a byproduct of getting to play with drugs” ALDJISLF I need to watch this anime

[@MideoKuze]

I really liked Shirayuki-hime when I was 18, the really on the nose 2010s feminism is kinda great. I think something needs to be said for the "I've put up with shit all day, I'm coming home and watching the show that will scream for me and reward the protagonist for screaming to boot" genre. I mean also it's a massively moneymaking genre. You sold me on this one tho

[@Ookamiryoshi]

Have you heard the good word of Utena, my friend? 🌹 🌹 🌹

[@jasminelav.332]

I've been saying this in feminist spaces for a long time and just been ignored or called an apologist for doing so: the second you start shrieking your point at your audience, you stop being a mouthpiece and just become a NAG. Nobody - not women, not men, NOBODY - will willingly listen to a nag. It makes the speaker feel good to unload on others, but that's it. As a means of gathering allies, it sucks and can even backfire bc it insults the listener's intelligence/values.

[@ravenfrancis1476]

Oh, look, rampant tone policing with misogynistic insults on a video saying fhat mature feminism is watered down for men's egos. What a surprise.

[@enricocoochie3113]

The people saying “I watched it because it was good what other reason do I need” don’t understand target demographic

[@michaelnelson2976]

9:11 The ageing of this video is already happening. And it hurts me...

[@jpickens189]

I am pretty sure on the list of "ways to make your work seem convincingly feminist while still getting the money of misogynists" placing it in a time period that is far more misogynist than is acceptable in the current Overton window would be number one.

[@hitori_9148]

I genuinely think this is your best video you've ever made. The video is a good mix of humor and actually digging into the content on a narrative and societal level, it's something that rarely gets put out on KZbin but this is a shining example!

[@kringly4196]

Ascendance of a bookworm pfp? Or am i wrong?

[@ScrubbinOpti]

Please vote for Harris, everyone. I would rather not have my entire existence criminalized and be locked up for living.

[@ZestubotaDakota]

Hi I’m your average swing state voter. You make a good point, but what if later today I read that Donad Tump bought a cool red car and I like red cars so then I want to vote for him more??? This vote is gonna be a hard choice.

[@willpina]

​@@Ubersuperslotheven if it is an exaggeration, it shouldn't even be a possibility.

[@randomweeaboo]

​@Ubersupersloth omg you owned that libtard! Way to hit em with the well actually technically you'd still exist. Lmao that'll show them

[@icyplatinum1701]

@@Ubersupersloth criminalising being trans publicly and criminalising the existence of trans people is de facto one and the same thing… Just cause you could hide being trans wouldn’t make it less illegal

[@nsnprotea2127]

​@@Ubersupersloth Fair interpretation, but I kinda disagree. Criminalizing a fundamental part of identity is criminalizing that person's existence. In a similar way that criminalizing a culture is criminalizing those people’s existence. Not literally living, but a fundamental part of their existence.

[@tostisgood]

The “Diary -> Journal” edit made me giggle.

[@ExplanationPointAnime]

Thanks! It took a minute.

[@Ookamiryoshi]

At the risk of attracting a certain audience, i just wanted to let you all know that anime feminist published an article that goes more in depth about the themes of Apothecary Diaries. Thanks again for all of your informative and entertaining content, dude. 😎

[@ClockFink]

I love Konosuba, but… It’s done some things wrong, in ways not unrelated to its 9::1 gender split >_>’

[@nathagar9251]

Konosuba’ll always have a special place in my heart but yeah. It begins so strong, and then starts making mistakes, and just keeps making more as time goes on. Still angry about how he did my girl lalatina dirty.

[@TheFlipside06]

Comming back to see how this video ages.

[@frost_nova321]

SNOW WHITE WITH THE RED HAIR MENTION RAAAHHHHHH🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@ExplanationPointAnime]

It was solidly okay!

[@frost_nova321]

@@ExplanationPointAnime i respect that opinion!

[@Ookamiryoshi]

This is me every time I see an Utena mention in the comments 🎉🎉🎉

[@relloz6]

Your analysis of the actual content of apothdai is spot on, and has me thinking about my own masculinity. But I think I disagree with your underlying point so much, you actually managed to prove to me that the show FAILS as a piece of feminist media, or at least it does so within our current lived context where a racist rapist cheeto is about to become the leader of the “free world” If intellectually stimulating, deeply thoughtful, subtle feminist messaging worked ob men, I dont think we would have seen the first popular vote win by a republican candidate in 20 years.

[@tesnacloud]

One note about the Verdigris house matron- she used to be a prostitute herself, and clearly does what she can to shield her worjers from the worst of the business. Which is insane, when you think about it. She props up, in her small way, a system of oppression that hurt HER so that it doesn't hurt others too badly. It goes beyond the wole "shut up, so you don’t get hurt" bit and moves into "help me out or those we are abusing will suffer even more".

[@hugomungus7306]

A lot of what appeals to me about Apothecary Diaries is her obsession with medicine that borders on near mania. It's both the driving force of her story and what keeps her above water in a time period that could kill her for acting in a disrespectful manner. Or worse.

[@philcollins5457]

Aight, fine, I’ll rewatch apothecary diaries. Twist my arm, why don’t you! (Vote for Kamala/Walz)

[@tayuyashoujo]

The very concept of this video is flawed when your premise is "a good feminist protagonist is one that doesn't affront the male audience". You could've made a video about why men like this show (it's well written, has good characters, compelling stories, and is a seinen, to name a few) which would ultimately be a rather pointless but harmless video. Instead you chose to contextualize it's success with a male audience within...feminism? And in so doing chose to tear down other series with different audiences that approach it differently? The comparison is moot. "[...] episode 5 is the first time the viewer is confronted with the reality of sexual assault in this society" (15:47). This claim is absurd when discussing a series where our main character lives and works in brothels and sexual enclaves. You even acknowledge that the palace is responsible for making the kidnapping of women a profitable endeavour shortly after. The sexual assault in Maomao's society has been hanging over this series from episode one. Maomao's explanation in episode 5 is only making that explicit by banging you over the head with it. You spend so much of this video ragging on the preachiness of series that nag the viewers with overt messaging, and yet chose to contrast those with one of The Apothecary Diaries' most overt scenes. I don't disagree that Maomao is a compelling feminist protagonist, but boiling it down to "Maomao keeps her head down and mouth shut" is doing a disservice to both the writing and to the audience. I realize this is a youtube video and "not that serious", but if you're going to tackle these subjects I encourage you to rethink how you addressed this, and to take some of the points raised in other comments to heart, rather than dismissing them blithely.

[@lizardgirl]

Thank you for saying this. It really bothers me how he addresses other “feminist” shows with such scorn for not appealing to men. It’s really weird, especially when the subject of the video highly relies on feminism. It just comes off as really dense. And I think it is strange that his definition of feminist show seems to be “female protag with struggles.” Him including Watamote as a “feminist show” just says a lot about what he thinks feminist messaging is.

[@nathagar9251]

You’re expanding the topic of the video beyond its stated intent in order to get mad about it. The argument isn’t that “maomao is a compelling feminst protagonist because she keeps her head down” but rather that her specific behaviors make her more accessible to a neutral male audience than other stories with a more direct approach. Being “well written, having good characters, compelling stories” etc. isn’t unusual. Any good story will have all these elements. Many good feminist stories have these elements and don’t have nearly the male viewership or engagement apothecary diaries has. So what is it beyond the basic elements of good storytelling - which again, all these stories have - that makes AD stand out? Everything expoint is talking about in this video. If the only conclusion we can come to is “good storytelling is good” then we don’t really have a subject worth talking about, do we?

[@elenamilin7445]

THIS. Also, the idea that Maomao is passive is honestly ridiculous? Like I see what he’s saying about showing how oppression causes self-censorship applies to her, but she literally slaps a lady in waiting in the face for prioritizing her mistress’s beauty over her health. Also the thing about how we don’t see the average streetwalker’s life or the lives of concubines that aren’t the four consorts is just not accurate. Like. Fuyou’s (sp?) whole arc, and then Gyoukuyou’s reaction to it, was an interesting and I think really well written exploration of the different problems and freedoms and agencies that can be afforded to women of different classes-how they’re the same but also different. Also, yes, Maomao is on the surface more on the hard science side than on the medicine side, but again: she slaps the shit out of someone for harming her patient. She WANTS to help others, but she also wants to protect her own peace, and we see a lot of her trying really hard to balance those two desires when they conflict, as they often do. Also, this series is extraordinarily concerned with class and hierarchy. The scene where Maomao asks Jinshi to let her die by poison if he has to execute her is extremely powerful and one of the things I think is best about it is how uncomfortable Jinshi is with her stating that explicitly. Anyway I love this series, I love your critiques of the vid, and honestly I was expecting better from this video.

[@ActuallyAnanya]

Thank you for this comment. Honestly I think this video runs the risk of potentially dissuading a female audience from watching AD. I haven't watched AD, but my friend loves the series and has recommended it to me (and I respect her taste), so I planned to at some point. However with his assertion that the protagonist is passive and that the world is so terrible to women and they seem to just accept it, that was the opposite of appealing to me. Like it literally just sounded like misery p*rn to me, and I find that to be an incredibly dull take on feminist issues. I'm glad to hear the characters aren't as passive as this video construes, I'm now interested in checking out the series again.

[@elenamilin7445]

@@ActuallyAnanya please do!! I think the women in the series are creative, dynamic, interesting people with differing relationships to hierarchy and to men, and most importantly, to one another, as well as having their own interests and qualities. Some of the depictions of sisterhood are really wonderful, and the depictions of friendship as well.

[@dreamer-fz9ct]

Welp The beginning of the video sure took a hit a day after

[@icyplatinum1701]

The bad part about all this is simply that if the average man had proper media literacy none of this would be an issue. You shouldn't have to write subversive and pander constantly to men's fragile egos when wanting to talk about feminism so that you're not being called a "feminazi" and "part of the woke agenda" Like bad and straightforward messaging is rarely seen as a negative as long as it is pro-establishment. The Apothecary Diaries is great and I love the way it tackles feminist theory while making it palatable for men but damn that shouldn't have to be necessary

[@ooofexe7210]

Oh boy. Few men are going to support you if your just going to insult them with a baseless claim that they lack media literacy and then put all the blame on them. This is a gender war, both sides are rightfully frustrated at each other. Please stop perpetuating this.

[@enricocoochie3113]

It shouldn’t have to be necessary, but we are tackling the biology of the average man’s brain, so you might as well just accommodate. Also that take could be taken in bad faith because to men it can be taken as “men just aren’t smart enough to understand, we shouldn’t have to dumb this down for them.” I’m not saying that’s what you’re saying, I’m just saying it could be taken that way

[@ActuallyAnanya]

@@enricocoochie3113 the whole point of the feminist movement is to challenge the accepted norms of society within the patriarchy. Settling for "acceptable feminism" is inherently dumbing it down.

[@ActuallyAnanya]

@@ooofexe7210 we're talking about a show where women (and girls) are being trafficked, something which happens in the real world as well disproportionately to women, and yet there are still men who think all problems of feminism have been solved and women need to stop complaining about it or "shoving it down their throats". I'm sorry if your feelings got hurt because someone said the average man lacks media literacy, particularly with regards to feminist themes in media. Most people in general lack media literacy. However more men could pick up on basic feminist themes like this if they just listened to women in their lives. This "gender war" you speak of has always been one-sided, and the "rightfulness" of the frustration you talk about just is not equal if you think about it at all.

[@thatguythere6161]

The thing about getting people who disagree with you to agree with you, is that it helps massively to get them to figure it out themselves. If people know they're trying to be convinced they fight back. This happens with everyone to some extent. However, if someone thinks of something themselves, they are much less likely to resist the idea. That's the value of subversive messaging. And I agree. Ideally, we wouldn't have to be subversive, but if we were living in an ideal world, we also wouldn't have to convince them in the first place.

[@robpaul7544]

As a man who watched this show I am unsure of what kind of anser you're looking for. If any. I watch a wide variety of shows, for different reasons. Because they're entertaining, intriguing, thought provoking, educational, impressive - or any combination thereof. This show ticks all the boxes. The story takes place in an extremely hierarchical traditionalist patriarchy, and shows how all of those aspects negatively impacts personal freedom and happiness for both men and women. Like you said. This is nothing new or revelatory, so most people watching will be familiar with the idea. It also shows how both men and woman choose to use or not use - or abuse - what power they do have within the system.

[@LittleBlackFoxInali]

Since there seems to be a trend in the comment section about comparing anime that try to tackle feminism and the patriarchy (and people have already brought up Utena): opinions on Ooku? I don't think I've seen anyone properly talk about it.

[@seasaltmemories]

Collen's Manga Recs made a vid about it! Great channel for shoujosei discussion: kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZa8q4B3jZp5nMksi=NB347BRdaQxG2JXZ

[@scoops237]

I'd avoid calling this 'accessible feminism' when it's a story that exists inside the confines of the socio-political mayonnaise of either late Ming or early Qing dynasty China. Mainly on account of the fact that it makes it seem like the plight of women who would have been on the other side of the planet, centuries ago, have much to say on modern women. You're not getting kidnapped and forced to work in the inner palace as a food taster for one of the emperor's concubines. I liked Apothecary Diaries because it's a good story and I like the protagonist.

[@scoops237]

Nope, never mind, I get it now, he's still watching gross English dubs. Also, Kamala Harris kept men in prison past their release date, kept an innocent man in prison by withholding exonerating evidence and weaponized criminal charges against the innocent to ruin people's lives.

[@scoops237]

Also, Also, you clearly don't understand how the Chinese legal system and the power structure of Chinese society worked in that time period. Which kinda makes sense, but the emperor can't just issue a decree and expect the entire country to follow it. It'd be like saying, "Oh, why didn't Julius Caesar order the senate not to stab him?"

[@scoops237]

Also also also, there's at least one entire episode I can think of off the top of my head that's devoted to a concubine who hates her role in the palace. And I can think of another but that'd be spoilers for either the next season or a season after that. And there's a number of episodes that hit home that even the Emperor is subject to the laws and expectations of the land and is not above the law. But I may be thinking of the manga on that one.

[@cthellis]

The lion was Jesus?!!

[@cthellis]

Maomao is love Maomao is light Maomao is life

[@cthellis]

Channel spinoff idea: Comedy Oranges

[@nathagar9251]

c s lewis just rolled over in his grave lol

[@blaqueup]

That scene in episode 5 you highlight is one of the bits that really stood out ot me as well on teh show. It framed alot on how the story, to me at least, was being written very much from a woman's perspective versus what I feel a lot of palace drama things I have seen tend to do in anime and manga. Kind of additionally, the class bits you note are importantt oo. I think that Maomao's being lower class does a lot to also highlight stuff we don't see a lot in anime honestly. I think a lot more stuff would be from an angle like the concubines. Hell, note that Snow White in her show is actually the concubine, she is both the Not Like Other Girls girl and the one in the position of perceived status and luxury, versus Maomao who remains a servant, and when she switches in the second cour to Jinshi's office...still a servant. She's notably *not* high status throughout. SO it lets us get a good outsdier's perspective on the concubines (and why it sucks) and the palace power strucutres (and why they suck). Kind of another perk on why she's liked I think is also the story allowing her to fail. Simply not even passing the court lady's test because turns out, she's not a general genius, or how much work it took her to heal Lihua, or how she almost basically went back to being a courtesan because it turns out being an educated woman who knows medicine *don't pay the bills* as much as serving or being a sex object also shows that she kind of earns her position in the story as a protagonist and ahs things to deal wiht besides folks being mean to her. But yeah, good stuff. I like your essays like these and look forward to them as always.

[@trendingchaos7497]

This video really made me self reflect a lot thx for making this I probably wouldn't have realized.

[@ActuallyAnanya]

I don't know if I like the conclusion you seem to come to in this video, that for a feminist show to appeal to male anime fans it needs to basically just show a patriarchal society beating down women in which women aren't able to directly stand up for themselves. Firstly, as another commenter said, the series being set in the past and, from a Western anime fan's perspective, in a very foreign culture, abstracts the message of the series to a Western man living in current day, who might think things are all fine now with regards to women's rights, as if issues like trafficking don't exist. I have not seen or read Apothecary Diaries yet, so I don't know if the story's direction changes or not. But passivity and acceptance of the status quo in a patriarchal society is kind of dull! You say that SWWTRH comes off as unrealistic because a woman in a patriarchal society wouldn't be so directly defiant and get through with few consequences. I agree with that. However, women DO act in defiance of patriarchal societies and ALWAYS have. From covert organising and dissemination of resources and aid, to direct protest. The rights we have today are because women fought for them, not because we just accepted that our subjugation is just how the world is and started waiting for men to notice. Ultimately a show where women are subjugated and don't seem to make any effort to actually alleviate their conditions doesn't seem to go far enough with its feminism for me, it seems like just saying "misogyny bad" and not much more than that. Which as a woman, I already know. I don't need it spelled out to me. What use is "acceptable feminism" when the whole point of the feminist movement is to CHALLENGE what are the accepted norms within patriarchy? I think the much bigger thing we need to focus on is the fact that the type of men you're talking about seem to lack even a baseline level of knowledge and empathy for women and what we go through. Having fully passive female protagonists, to me, almost seems to be coddling them somewhat. Especially to the kind of dudebros who see any female character with agency and call her a Mary Sue. Asking these men to recognise misogyny and introspect a little is step one. Does this series go beyond step one? Because that's where the actual interesting discussions would start. Maybe outside your purview, but I bring it up because it has a similar inciting incident to Apothecary Diaries - the Bollywood movie Gangubai Kathiawadi is based on a true story about a woman kidnapped and made to work in a brothel (spoilers ahead). We see the awful violence that she faces both from patrons as well as the female boss of said brothel. Over the course of the movie we see her rise through the ranks and eventually overthrow the old boss, use her new power to fight for the rights of the other girls working there and their children, eventually even meeting the Prime Minister (this all happened in real life). She did not do this alone of course, the movie shows how supported she is by her fellow workers, but also by a handful of good men who do help her - namely a local gang leader who she helps with his bootlegging business (who protects her in return using his resources), and a tailor who she falls in love with. As with that relationship in Apothecary Diaries you mentioned, her and the tailor do not end up together, but not purely because of external forces and happenstance. She herself decides he would not be able to live a respectable life if he were to be with her due to the societal expectations they all face, and sets him up to be married to a kidnapped girl she rescues, to ensure the girl escapes the difficult life. The tailor refuses at first but eventually accepts, demonstrating the power that the societal constraints still hold. She turns away a chance at personal happiness for the good of another woman, something that also has happened so much in history. There is also finally a journalist very out of his depth with the struggles these women face, but clearly well-meaning and willing to learn, who helps Gangubai using the media, which was and still is a field controlled by men. Hell, even some of her patrons are helpful to her! This film, as you can see, shows the difficulties of being a woman living in patriarchy, and features multiple good men for a male audience to relate and project onto, while still having a female lead who is very much active in her emancipation (while also displaying vulnerability at multiple points). I have my own problems with the movie, the pacing isn't great and conflicts resolve a bit too quickly etc., but I think it did do a great job raising feminist talking points to a wider audience, including men. And again, the story is based on real life, so claims of being "unrealistic" kinda fly out the window. It went beyond just "misogyny bad" but also "hey maybe I should actually be an ally to women fighting for their rights". Again, I haven't seen or read Apothecary Diaries, and I do plan to, so maybe it will surprise me with a future turn of events. From this video, though, it seems to be skating by on "acceptable feminism", which maybe enough to start with, but needs to go further. Essay over.

[@Dialga9187]

The 'dude bros' will not be 'reached' by any conventional form of media that actively seeks to reach them. Only if this is their first introduction to feminist ideas and issues will they begin to be receptive without attempting to deflect or avoid them. Your approach may be as calculated as you wish, but without the prerequisite knowledge of how guys like that think, you ain't gonna get anywhereeeeeeeee... Also, do not think that a piece of media requires 'going further'. If nothing else, that knowledge will serve you in further comment section discourse. Thanks for reading.

[@Solstice261]

I agree with this. The feminist messaging in apothecary diaries is for my liking pretty weak, unless you consider good female characters feminism which I don't really, having a good character is hardly a defence for equality. However the show is still pretty good and the characters are indeed good which sadly in today's media landscape does in fact put it in a feminist position because of how you correctly pointed out, we live in a sad time where if a female character saves the male character, a bunch of guys appear to call it hate against men an a mary sue, so truly sad times, hope we don't begin going backwards on matters of feminism a lot of people had to fight to get us where we are now in that aspect (I shouldn't use we because I am not a woman but I don't now what pronoun to use for society) hopefully some day there comes a time where we don't have to see a show wit a majority female cast as "feminist" because it will be more common

[@ActuallyAnanya]

​@@Dialga9187​ I have no problem with viewing this series for what it is, as a piece of enjoyable fiction. I raised my points about it not going far enough as it was presented by this video as being feminist. When you use a political label to describe a work, you invite critique for your viewpoint. That's all I was offering. I'm well-aware that the "dudebros" thoughts aren't going to be changed by media. I was in the anime society at university ffs, I knew many guys with that kind of thinking. It was only through being challenged on their mindsets by the female members of the club (including myself) that some of them began to change. Personal interactions and experience are what makes for the most material change. And some of those guys still didn't change even then.

[@ActuallyAnanya]

​@@Solstice261yeah, I'll be watching the series and taking it in as just entertainment with some strong female characters tbh. I'm not looking to it to be a groundbreaking feminist narrative, there's other art I can go to for that.

[@yellowsnake7300]

@@ActuallyAnanyaI’m glad you’re going to check it out! Even without looking at it through a feminist lens, it really is just an enjoyable show to watch!

[@iamtwoawesomes]

as a queer person somewhat disconnected from the larger societal identities of male and female, I have really enjoyed hearing people on YT who are more connected to that give their insights when they react to this show. Since I tend toward more gender-strange media, it is very novel when something uses a more strict gender system to raise points that intrigue me. Thank you to Explanation Point for the interesting and sometimes relatable additions to the conversation.

[@leighwolf5349]

I was wondering why I hadn't seen you make a video about Apothecary Diaries, and hoped it was because it was you'd make a dedicated video for it. I was so relieved & excited to see this pop-up in my notifications! Thank you very much! 🥳

[@Flameblight]

Part of the issue with how some viewers recieve more traditional overt feminist messaging is that eventually you run into the problem of "well what do you expect ME to do about it?" Patriarchy is a system, not a person. By nature it lasts beyond the scope of any human lifespan and is extremely resistant to change by anything but an overwhelming majority. Most men aren't patriarchs and even in the case where one is a patriarch like the emperor their actual ability to effect any kind of lasting or even noticeable change personally is extremely limited. The only way to fight a system is to work to change beliefs and sentiments on all societal levels to the extent that it becomes a supplanting system of its own that lasts beyond its creators and is itself just as resistant to change. Creating a new system like that is hard work though because you can't just pick a group of people to blame because that by definition breeds dissent which just makes it harder to form the massive super majority needed. You have to fight the system directly by spreading actual in-depth understanding of what the problem actually is and why it's bad. But that runs into the two pronged problem of most people not having the time or motivation to genuinely TRULY understand an issue, and most people not having the time, motivation, or understanding to truly TEACH that issue. TLDR: Fighting a societal system is truly the absolute hardest of hard work and most people don't have the time, motivation, or understanding to actually do it effectively.

[@jaydinotjd]

Honestly every time I see a girlboss I also slightly roll my eyes because it has a “god this is all what men see when they think of feminism” but also it sucks having to explain to men “you do realize that this is also bad for you right? RIGHT?!” And that certain behaviors are um how do I put it not okay? It is the meme of talking to people who understand vs talking to people that don’t understand. It does sometimes feel like talking to a child because some of the stuff that is believed were instilled in them as children. I know it feels insulting to them but also it’s not my fault that I need for break it down so thoroughly if you already understood the situation. This is probably just a result of hyperfixation but going around KZbin and seeing so many people talk about Mouthwashing because it’s a good game. But the difference in how men were talking about it verses women was a little disappointing. Like all the women I’ve heard from immediately understand what happened but when it comes to guys it has to be pointed out. Idk maybe I’m not looking hard enough with guys I’ve heard like one or two men pick up on what happened naturally and not through someone pointing it out though I’m not entirely sure that’s the case because someone could’ve told them while they were playing the game. Though just to have the possibility that they could’ve understood without intervention is a possibility I don’t want to give up if you know what I mean. God I write comments so long I forget why I’m writing them like sorry about how long this was but also it was supposed to be longer…

[@yellowsnake7300]

No shame about long comments! And as women, it can be frustrating to see men who don’t recognize things that are so obvious to us. It’s easy to roll our eye and wonder frankly how on earth they don’t understand something that’s so basic to us. The thing to remember though, is that it’s simply _not_ a basic fact for them. They are not women, and don’t experience life the way women do. So, there are some things that women know as basic facts of life simply by virtue of *living as a woman.* Yet men, by not sharing that virtue, simply don’t know those same things because they’ve never personally experienced them. In the absence of experience, they have to be taught. And most of the time, boys and men are not taught about women’s issues as they grow up. Neither are girls, but girls don’t need to be taught because they learn through the experience of growing into a woman in this society. So, in the abscess of this education, girls grow into women that are aware of these issues as a basic fact of life, and boys grow into men that hardly even realize these issues exist. Or, even if they do know they exist, have no frame of reference because they’ve never encountered it in their own lives. They only have a vague sense of them, and no understanding of how it actually affects them and the women in their lives. And then, when they do encounter these things as grown men, they either don’t recognize them or are blindsided by them. There is no way for most men to understand these things unless they are taught. The problem with that is the attitude of the only ones that can teach them: women. Because these are such basic facts to women, they view men who need to have these things explained as almost idiotic. So when a man, who honestly does not know better, inquires with a sincere desire to learn about women’s struggles, they are met with a level of condescension and borderline scorn that makes them feel stupid for even asking. No one likes to be spoken down to or treated like a moron, especially when you’re coming from a place of earnestly wanting to learn more. So now you have men who never experienced women’s issues, were never taught about women’s issues, and now are being made to feel stupid for asking about women’s issues. I mean, no one wants a genuine question to be responded with along the lines of “what? You don’t know that? Oh dear….” Cue a mixed look of pity and scorn. So I guess my point is… we shouldn’t shame men for not knowing these things. We should enlighten them when we can, and not do so in a way that makes it seem like they’re bad people or stupid for not knowing these things already. It’s frustrating to have to repeat things we find obvious, but we have to remember that what’s obvious to us is not even on the radar for a majority of our male counterparts. And remember that it’s not their fault that that’s the case.

[@yellowsnake7300]

Love Apothecary Diaries and Exclamation Point! This has made my night 💙

[@siddamo8256]

So early that the video is at 360p

[@Doominator10]

8 hrs later video is still 360p. Hold up whats goin on.

[@ayal92]

Maomao has plenty to say about the evils of her world, she just doesn't complain about her own problems because she knows that, compared to other women, she has a lot of privilege. Which shows how much the system sucks even more

[@Religion0]

Watching the opening after the election sure hits different.

[@justanotherguywithamoustac8893]

I'll be real I never watched The Apothecary Diaries but this convinced me

[@EXoDuZ302]

agreed, i think a big thing a lot of shows slip up on and the best shows get write is this a mistake is focusing on a bad actor a win is creating a system and showing, this system isnt unique its mundane, shout out to scrubs the goat

[@Somerandomguy524]

That endorsement did not age well

[@Patty-Q]

That opening joke about consuming poison was on point, as I'd just bought some alcohol and put this on while casually sipping it.

[@anavocado6763]

What was the clip that had to be cut out? (at 23:18)

[@rosalindalaboy7111]

I really appreciate this sort of analysis right now

[@paranimate-thesissilent]

I love that this video brings up how to make a story with feminist messages for different audiences! As someone who grew up a girl and is deeply invested in topics of gender, society etc. I can sometimes forget that not everyone is acutely aware of the suble ways patriarcy affect media and our world. I want to write a story with feminist elements myself one day and this video has helped me wonder about how I could present some of the topics in a way, it could reach men as well

[@nujuheh]

If i'll be real, the passive writing or meta tone isnt really that much of a reason you'd think men/boys found this anime 'palatable'. Its more because of the fact this manga got serialized in a seinen magazine. I'm not saying men/boys actively avoid shojo/josei tags but defo subconcious and part algorithm recommendation making it a cycle (then again theres the case of nana, 7 seeds, nodame cantabille so....) . But the fact the algorithm got designed like this in the first place is as questionable as the society you pointed out operating in apo diaries, kind of a meta-irony. If ur not convinced, just know that apo diaries was initially a web novel under josei tag, the moment it got a manga adapt under seinen tag it not only reached more popularity but it also initial grade rank upped from B- to A-, without the story changing. The author played the game just like Maomao

[@queenlolo1384]

That last part is depressing, but true. I've always said that in order to have a popular manga, you must: - take tropes, character types, plot points, etc., from Shoujo and Josei, but publish them in Seinen magazines. - Have a male protagonist. Yes, female protagonists are getting more mainstream, but the best selling manga with a female protagonist hasn't even hit 90 million sold. The best selling manga with a male protagonist, and of all time, is One Piece at over 500 million sold.

[@sebjink.9037]

This is a fair explination of how it got shown to men, but it doesn't much explain how it stayed with men in general.

[@queenlolo1384]

@@sebjink.9037 The explanation is that men subjectively enjoy all demographics. Whether aimed at girls/women, or aimed at them. Apothecary Diaries is appealing to men, simply because it's good. Men just didn't realize it because they dislike things aimed at women. They look down on them.

[@siginotmylastname3969]

​@@queenlolo1384these arguments are assuming shoujo/josei successfully target more girls and women than shounen/seinen though, and there are a lot of girls/women who enjoy shounen/seinen in Japan(though tbh seinen manga at least what gets popular online seem more obviously uninterested in atteacting women, light novels and web novels can have pretty different tones to manga magazines though). I do think there's an issue with its lower popularity but also think there's an issue with assuming it's men reading all the seinen as well. Houseki no kuni, noragami and nurarihyon no mago are seinen and shounen manga, but their audiences have tonnes of women. And people constantly cite shoujo influences in berserk but it's basically filled with dudebros in the fanbase.

[@gabriellebertrand3054]

I do like how you pointed out how Shiroyuki’s occupation in her story is much more similar to a modern-day nurse or doctor, which requires care-work and interacting with patients in a comforting manner. In contrast how Maomao is much more similar to a scientist, or pharmaceutical engineer and how this occupation allows her to be cold and detached (traits men are taught to value). Most girls and women have personal experience taking care of and being responsible for another person, even as children via babysitting. Fewer girls and women are allowed to be as anti-social and unfeeling as Maomao is in her work without negative social consequences. Like, Maomao does let a baby die via her inaction, which definitely feels like it’s breaking some sort of Girl-Code (feminine-associated values regarding taking care of children) in a way that could put off many girls and women from identifying with her, but maybe in a way that may bother men less.

[@Ookamiryoshi]

As much as i love my little drug gremlin, im pretty sure id rather be treated by Shirayuki. Maomao has the bedside manner of House lol

[@gabriellebertrand3054]

@@Ookamiryoshi😆

[@SirRichard94]

Im here to recommend Utena, another very feminist show that doesn't go "men bad" and also shows how the men also suffer because of patriarchy. Its protagonist is assertive but also an idiot and she will never lecture you. The ideology itself is the main problem, and besides the main villain (and one girl), no one is explicitly bad.

[@xanecho]

I mean. Utena will ABSOLUTELY lecture you, she'll just be a hypocrite while doing so (see: most of the first arc). But I think why it works is because the SHOW itself isn't lecturing you, and because Utena herself doesn't start the show as some paragon of feminism but rather just a well meaning teenager stumbling through learning it herself

[@SirRichard94]

@xanecho well, she'll judge you on the basis of chivalry on the first act because she's aiming for the role of Prince herself, but even then, she doesn't really ask them to change, shes fighting for her own ego. She doesn't even know what her opponents are struggling through. She's acting like she thinks the prince would.

[@Ookamiryoshi]

​@@xanechoso true tho. Like, i love Utena as a character but shes kind of a dummy. I think even Ikuni said something to the effect of "She is a fool" but goddamn if she isnt trying her hardest.

[@mutedups]

I remember this phrase, it was said in reference to a repost of "when we say we hate men we mean don't hurt us" and someone replied "If your message is misconstrued, you explain it. If the words of your message are misconstrued, you change them" and said person was dismissed because internet Gotta check this series out sometime

[@essidus]

I appreciate your videos, as always. I wish there had been time in the video to address her time after she was released from her position in the rear palace though. The dynamic somewhat changes when Mao Mao leaves, and then returns directly under the employ of Jinshi, even if briefly. I find it interesting how despite being technically more free, the women here are largely under similar social constraints. Their "freedom" ends up getting expressed though schemes and social hierarchal infighting, since despite their freedom the only real power they have is that which they have over other women. Or, most relevant to basically the entire story, how women cannot practice medicine, as revealed in season 2. This is why the doctor they have at the inner palace right now is so incompetent- any skilled man would never choose castration in order to work in the inner palace. That's why the previous doctor was so burdened he couldn't handle two births happening at the same time, which led to the chain of events that led us to today. One woman would have made such an earth-shattering difference that it's impossible to predict the ripples, and we know for a fact that medically skilled women exist RIGHT NOW that aren't being effectively used. A patriarchy so rigid that multiple members of the imperial family have died upholding it.

[@jooceebox]

I loved this video knh is my fav show rn and you made a lot of good points! Hope to keep these ideas in mind when season 2 drops!

[@oriondezagrats4228]

3:25 in so far. I need to say this before the video continues, regardless of whether this scene is touched on or not. A great many men, I think, are going to see a woman who just lost her baby to poison, being given that same poison by people who know it's poison but purport to do it because 'she deserves to be beautiful and we love her', and have _the exact same reaction as the main character._ There's... it's _so easy_ to relate to that emotion. And she just takes it and FOLLOWS THROUGH ON IT. It's awesome and terrifying.

[@WhatTheHECKamIdoing1]

So while i have been looking at gender as a set of expectations that you can choose to ignore and still find happiness, i am guilty of not considering both the people who are unable to ignore those expectations and that society is effectively working against those who ignore it. thank you for the video

[@Ookamiryoshi]

Oooh, someones been reading Butler and Hooks. I kid, i kid...Unless? 🧐

[@nunyabiznes7446]

Ten minutes in: "Ok ok I'l watch Apothecary Diaries, this sounds pretty good." After hearing about that one guys's storyline: "...ok you know what actually, having to see that would ruin my day." great video dude. I still might watch the show, but regardless I feel like I get why people were talking about it now.

[@dandrive3249]

The Dawn of Arcadia manga does many of the plot points of Snow White with the Red Hair does but is more subtle. (Really good manga btw one of my favorites for a long time.)

[@jdvictor1921]

Filipino here, leaving in the Philippines. For the love of all that lives and breathes, I am asking you Americans not to fuck this up the way you did in 2016. Enough trumpery.

[@DavidZetaKrone]

American here. I'm also hoping we don't fuck it up. Unfortunately I know my countryman, and I have very little hope for them.

[@gabriellebertrand3054]

So basically, The Apothecary Diaries is notable because it shows a deeply sexist society without portraying any outwardly misogynistic individuals (men). In that way, The Apothecary Diaries is a story based more on realism, because in everyday life most people meet very few outwardly misogynistic individuals in their daily life. Except… that that’s only really true for men. Most women have had interactions with individual outwardly sexist men in their daily lives and can easily bring some to mind. Comparing it to Snow White with the Red Hair, I watched this anime and there were very few outwardly sexist men. The aforementioned Prince is a notable exception as he kicks off the start of the story by forcing Shiroyuki to flee her country. And the presence of the sexist, Prince as a character in the story that tries to ruin Shiroyuki’s life is arguably more reflective of the real life experiences of young women. I think that’s in part why Maomao’s conversation with Jinshi about why she paints on freckles is so notable. I remember how shortly after that episode aired multiple women in the anime commentary community talked about how this mundane aspect of life for many women was being acknowledged via an anime with broad appeal. Regarding Maomao’s makeup, I purposely do not wear makeup most days because I live in a city and less men try to bother me when I look “uglier”. Like The Apothecary Diaries is notable for being a story with no individually sexist men- but that in and of itself is unrealistic to most women’s experiences but reflects the reality of most men’s lived experiences. I do appreciate it’s examination of patriarchal systems and social patterns instead of “good” or “bad” individuals. Also the narrative’s examination of the historical concept of “The Courtesan” compared to “The Emperor’s Concubine” is super interesting, in that neither of these groups of intelligent, well-connected women who use their sexuality actually have power over their own lives. While this show-don’t tell method does create a more complex story, but it also can allow individual male viewers to shy away from the reality of how their male peers can and do behave towards women.

[@Kagomai15]

Ohhh now I see why those people didn't like Iron Widow when I thought it was amazing.

[@airiquelmeleroy]

Came in agreeing with the thumbnail Left out agreeing with the content, but for completely different reasons lol

[@TheKintin23]

For some reason I can only watch this video in 360p. Is that only me?

[@ProudlyIdiotic]

Real fans watch explanation point for the singing