how villainesses violate gender norms

[@bazazilio]

Sources: [1] Casey Baseel, "Why Are There So Many Reincarnation and Villainess Anime and Manga?" 2022. soranews24.com/2022/10/29/why-are-there-so-many-reincarnation-and-villainess-anime-and-manga-manga-editor-explains/ [2] Britney Jones, "The Rise of Isekai: A Dive Into The Subgenre’s Popularity," 2023. indigomusic.com/feature/the-rise-of-isekai-a-dive-into-the-subgenres-popularity [3] Louis Kemner, "Why Are Reincarnation Isekai Anime So Popular?" 2023. www.cbr.com/reincarnation-isekai-anime-popularity-explained/ [4] Timothy Blake Donohoo, "How Isekai Anime Reflect Modern Society’s Escapism," 2024. www.cbr.com/isekai-anime-reflect-modern-society-escapism/ [5] Giovanni Tagliamonte and Yaochong Yang, "Isekai: Tracing Interactive Control in Non-interactive Media," 2021. [6] Joseph Campbell, "A Hero with a Thousand Faces," 1949. [7] Simone de Beauvoir, "The Second Sex," 1949. [8] Maria Tatar, "Heroine with a Thousand and One Faces," 2021. [9] N.A. Bunaeva, B.S. Sosorova, and A.A. Orsoeva, "Transformation of a Female Gender Identity in South Korea," 2022. www.researchgate.net/publication/367792748_Transformation_of_a_female_gender_identity_in_South_Korea/fulltext/63dab30d64fc86063805815b/Transformation-of-a-female-gender-identity-in-South-Korea.pdf [10] Y. Yoon, "A Study of the Development of Sunjong Manhwa by Hwang Mina, Kim Hyerin, and Choi In-Sun," 2001. [11] Jaqueline Berndt, Kazumi Nagaike, and Fusami Ogi, "Shōjo Across Media," 2019. [12] Lauren Berlant, "Cruel Optimism," 2011. [13] Leah Phillips, "Female Heroes in Young Adult Fantasy Fiction," 2023. [14] Linda Barlow, "The Androgynous Writer," 1992. Part of Jayne Ann Krentz, "Dangerous Men and Adventurous Women: Romance Writers on the Appeal of the Romance," 1992. [15] Elise Ringo, "Villainesses Required: Why the Dark Side Needs More Women," 2018. reactormag.com/villainesses-required-why-the-dark-side-needs-more-women/ [16] Sarah Gailey, "In Defense of Villainesses," 2016. reactormag.com/in-defense-of-villainesses/ [17] Eleonora Sereni, "When I'm Bad, I'm Better: From Early Villainesses to Contemporary Antiheroines in Superhero Comics," 2020. www.readkong.com/page/when-i-m-bad-i-m-better-from-early-villainesses-to-2161402 [18] Adriana Clavel-Vázquez, "Sugar and Spice, and Everything Nice: What Rough Heroines Tell Us about Imaginative Resistance," 2018. www.academia.edu/36326311/Sugar_and_spice_and_everything_nice_What_rough_heroines_tell_us_about_imaginative_resistance [19] A.W. Eaton, "Robust Immoralism," 2012. www.jstor.org/stable/43496513 [20] Jessica Coen, "Gone Girl's Biggest Villain Is Marriage Itself," 2014. jezebel.com/gone-girl-s-biggest-villain-is-marriage-itself-1642978659 [21] Eleonor Botoman, "I Have Complicated Feelings About Shiv Roy, You Should Too," 2023. elliebotoman.medium.com/i-have-complicated-feelings-about-shiv-roy-you-should-too-bd49325b027a [22] Tania Sharmin and Sanyat Sattar, "Gender Politics in the Projection of 'Disney' Villains," 2018. www.davidpublisher.com/Public/uploads/Contribute/5a2f76c6e2b71.pdf [23] Eva Illouz, "Hard-Core Romance: 'Fifty Shades of Grey,' Best-Sellers, and Society," 2014. [24] Vivian Graciela Chertian, "Villainess Protagonists’ Performative Acts as the Representation of Modern Femininity," 2022. www.researchgate.net/profile/Vivian-Chertian/publication/379512442_Villainess_Protagonists%27_Performative_Acts_as_the_Representation_of_Modern_Femininity [25] Sue Austin, "Women's Aggressive Fantasies: A Post-Jungian Exploration of Self-Hatred, Love and Agency," 2005. [26] Gillian Flynn, "I Was Not a Nice Little Girl," 2015. medium.com/@Powells/i-was-not-a-nice-little-girl-c2df01e0ae1

[@DeathLadyShinigami]

Y'know what's kind of hilarious? Modern Isekai are as you described Male power fantasies. But the older Isekai (from before SAO) that I remember off the top of my head all have female protagonists who go to 'another world'. I mean Inuyasha, Escaflowne, Magic Knight Rayearth and Fushigi Yuugi are the ones that pop up in my head right away and all have Female protagonists that get swept away for various reasons (no death required). Those are the stories I grew up with before 'Isekai' became a genre instead of a story beat.

[@starlightskyes]

Even before that you have Wendy in Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, and Dorothy in OZ.

[@PrismCasillica]

Kagome of Inu Yasha, too.

[@drewmarteny1495]

I would agree with most of what you say though inuyasha I believe better fits the precursor genre portal fantasy often involving a young girl find an portal to another world sometimes one way sometimes not including things like alice in wonderland or coraline

[@DeathLadyShinigami]

@drewmarteny1495 Ah but you've missed my point! A) Isekai simply means 'another world' there Are no specifics. It does not mean you have to die, it does not mean you're trapped, it simply means you are relocated to 'another world'. Methods vary. And B) a Genre is supposed to tell you what Kind of story your about to read. Is it romance? Horror? Portal Fantasy isn't a genre it's a plot beat. A trope. It tells you something that will happen in the story but is that portal fantasy overall Sci-Fi? Is it a Comedy? Isekai too used to be just a literary tool for telling a story. But now when someone says Isekai they think of a grouping of writing tropes that while they can be played with are usually all present in some form. It became a Genre unto itself that tells you what your going to get. But the earlier uses of Isekai? Hardly fit the Isekai Genre cause they used it as a literary tool Not as a genre. I just thought it was interesting that before it became a 'genre' that was mostly male power fantasy, most of those who 'traveled' were woman. At least in the media I know of.

[@drewmarteny1495]

@DeathLadyShinigami I agree with some of your points I was discussing how these other world stories changed as a type portal fantasy was almost exclusively a for of young girl or mixed gender children other world adventure that ends with a permanent return to the 'real world' later adapting a coming of age aspect as opposed to isekais current themes shifting includ9ng an increase in permanent travel to the other world and was using inuyasha as an example of this shift of eras in sotrytell9ng similar to how magical girl became much more sentai around or post sailor moon portal fantasy had a fairly stable story structure that has faded from the current themes that isekai covers

[@sarahtachibana1333]

"Good girls go to heaven and bad girls go wherever they want" DAMN dude you are fire, time to follow

[@maddiebear3041]

Actually this reminds me of a comic I’m reading on webtoon called “to who it no longer concerns” where the good girl dies because she was a good girl and is sent back 5 years before her death where she becomes the ‘bad girl’ scheming and standing up for herself which get her rewarded with a way out of her abusive relationships. It’s so far a really good read and inversion of the idea that girls have to be passive and accept their abusers to succeed

[@JGTtoday]

That ones kinda mid tho

[@maddiebear3041]

@JGTtodayreally? It’s the first one of the genera I’ve read. What do you suggest I try?

[@rsmrlvlck5397]

@@maddiebear3041 it's on tapas, but "the fantasie of a stepmother" is one of my favorites and very popular in the otome isekai genre!! would definitely recommend :)

[@maddiebear3041]

@ thanks!

[@JGTtoday]

@@maddiebear3041 im not really into webtoons so i dont got anything sorry

[@Literaryhag]

You hit the nail on the head on why I loved villainesses stories, though I don’t read them much anymore mostly due to reading so many of them that I kinda got bored of the trope. I am still waiting for when we can just write villainess stories without the need for reincarnations/time travel,

[@nevercomback1689]

We do have a lot of that /but in my opinion those suck, I never find a good one 😕

[@promethiamoore6462]

ARMAND PFP

[@promethiamoore6462]

Super agreed Especially because of how the story completely discards the Isekai aspects a lot of times

[@halfpintrr]

I would argue that most modern isaekai geared at men don’t really have self-improvement much. The powers are handed out and there is no real danger of true failure, except at the start. Also, that’s why I love queer stories, the roles are different.

[@bazazilio]

I think that because isekai is so gameified self-improvement there doesn't really feel like self-improvement, it feels like leveling up in a game, almost effortless, because the protagonist has been given that OP power to begin with, so leveling up feels easy. But to me leveling up is self-improvement nonetheless, because the OP powers that were given to the protagonist do progress, but the escapist nature of the genre kind of leaves out the actual hard work part that people need to do to level up in real life. As you said, there's no real danger or stakes, but the protagonists do become more and more badass and cool as the story progresses.

[@fillosof66689]

And then you have something like Mushoku Tensei where, for all the tropes and flaws of the narrative, the power fantasy plays out as the backdrop to the protagonist's journey from a tangled ball of failure, regrets and psycholohical damage of his past life into a functional and semi-decent human being.

[@halfpintrr]

@ yeah but I’m never gonna watch it. The way it treats women is abysmal.

[@shadysaint4961]

The story that comes to mind that deals with the engrained wishfullment issues: "This Isekai Maid is Forming a Union!" Both critiques the common tropes of Capitalism, slavery, and overlooking awful men by setting up a multiverse of people being isekai'd and having the protagonist be a Maid who, when she dies, is sent into the body of a maid in another common isekai story. So you get to see multiple Villanesses and even the protagonist was a villaness maid in some lives.

[@nashthelime8475]

Oh my gosh I absolutely love that webtoon

[@AndreinaGerman]

I've been thinking about a Manhwa like this for years I knew I have to wait cuz it was about to happen

[@rottenkittenparvo]

ABSOLUTELY agree with this video. The thing that resonated the most for me, is this part 21:24 this does not get talked about at all. They always say ''we want deeply written, grey female characters!'' until they meet a female character anteheroine written as a male antihero/villain. They do not handle it well, the amount of hate i see online for these characters is crazy honestly. In archane the character of Ambessa is ...underappreciated, uncared for, ignored and hated for being a selfish and cruel character. She yearned for power, yes, she was manipulative at it, she had her fears, but she is reduced to this absolute evil by the fans. I was really surprised to see that from arcane fans since i thought they were different, as they were exposed to various characters in this show, and yet. The same goes for Mel which is really funny, since she ''redeems'' herself by the end, but still gets hated. Oh and Maddie lol im not gonna talk about her lol. In Gone Girl i felt so pleased by such actions, and the thing that was the most pleasing was that Amy is a woman. The same thing i felt for Pearl 2022. I am no way near a person like that irl, i am what they would describe me as a good girl character in media. All my life i did what was expected of me, was kind and apologetic, anxious and followed rules, protected a certain view i built for people to see me as. Yet i feel extremely bad emotionally as i navigate in life. I cant feel honest happiness for others success, others friendships or happiness. I feel bitter, but i hide it very carefully, i am extremely supportive of people around me, yet i am alone. I think this is why i love female characters that are exceptionally, unapologetically evil. I really loved Cersei, was heartbroken they wrote her to be so..bad by the end, how they wrte the shame scene, i loved Margery, absolutely adored Daeneryss, and in last season i still rooted for her, was absolutely flabbergasted the way people turned away from her by the end. How they mocked her and were happy for Jon to be the promised prince..yet i cant forgive them since today for it. I was robbed of this satisfying ending, the thing that she fought for so long was robbed, stolen from her by a man! This would be never celebrated if the roles were reversed. How dared she grief her loss and reduce to anger by the end, how dared she take her place by force! she was meant to be this pleasant hero yet she became like her father! no, i don;t like this. She had all of the ''redeeming qualities'' as a sort of hero gone bad and yet was treated like that. i fear my comment is gonna get deleted, but i loved this a lot!

[@Cogito-void]

You should try out the Umineko: When they Cry visual novel. Beatrice is an exceptionally written antagonist, the female cast is all diverse in the morally spectrum, there's morally gray and there's straight up cartoonishly evil characters. It's a lengthy read though, roughly 120+ hours on average and the comedy might be a bit hard to swallow if you're not familiar with anime related media.

[@Suited_Nat]

Ngl I loved Ambessa. She was such a good character. Though I feel like act 2 and 3 of s2 really rushed her writing.

[@imaginieiota6298]

I feel validated! Btw I liked Mel a lot her complicated relationship with her mom resonated with me. Though I think her story rushed in season 2 which is why people don't like her!? I think her story should've gotten more time.

[@Snormite]

The problem here is that no one liked how Daenerys's development into a villain was rushed, and of course Jon had to stop her, he's a dude with a pure heart who would never be okay with letting someone who took all of her grief on innocent peasants to rule.

[@Snormite]

Also, if you write a story where the male lead becomes the villain and he's stopped by a woman who had her own character arc alongside him, I don't think anyone would complain as long as it's well done... Attack on Titan had that ending, but because it was also written poorly, people disliked it as much as they disliked GoT's ending.

[@oasis_06]

i noticed in a lot of fandom spaces female characters would be hated for being cunning, arrogant, confident, sarcastic, snarky, or for not acting 100% agreeable or sweet. But if a male character displayed these traits they were usually a fan favorites and greatly praised for being complex and human

[@gaudium-wille9470]

Coming from someone who read a LOT of villainess manhwas, the problem with these villainess mamhwas is that to make us sympathize with the protagonist aka the villainess is to make the og protagonist "evil"... that's just lazy writing and feels definitely sexist. The double standards are strong. Not talking about the extreme classism embedded in these stories from slapping maids to the stupid twist of "the protagonist is extremely talented be aause she has royal blood actually and you should respect her you female peasant" There are of course good manhwas that try to subvert this shit but they're rare. My experience with fandom for Otome isekai is that if anything people would go an extreme way to defend their "babygirl villainess protagonist" and bash the shit out of the "bad og protagonist" and that's not breaking the gender norms for me. that's just sexism. Y'all can't take a morally bad woman until she's the protagonist.

[@Stxrria]

Agreed

[@MahiMahi-yu5jo]

Long After the Ending is one of the few Otome Isekai Manhwa that address this. The 'villainess' wasn't evil in the original story. It was her fiance that cheated on her and when she retaliated, he framed her as the bad guy. When our protagonist was reincarnated as the villainess, she does her best to get out of thr fiance's way and he still frames her as a bad guy. He performs such a horrid character assassination that her own family considers her spoilt. The OG heroine tries to reach out, she isn't aware of what happened behind the scenes and annoys our protagonist. The protagonist pulls some small pranks on the girl but can't bring herself to do anything serious because the OG heroine is the only innocent party in this. And it comes to a point where the protagonist ends up telling her side of the story to the Heroine. And what does the heroine do? She shows exactly how heroic she is and takes her husband to task and makes it so that her husband has to come to the protagonist with his tail between his legs and beg for forgiveness. Our protagonist even gets a chance to punch him in the face

[@Ninakoru]

Cannot sympathize, but well, everything is sexism by today's standards. What I don't tolerate very well on manwha in general is how ridiculously OP the MC almost always is, and the lack of challenge ahead in their journey. Probably on the head of the author, making the heroine evil is just a lazy way to add more spice to the drama, and if not: no wonder in cultures much more sexists than our own (at least, mine).

[@sugarzblossom8168]

Yep. The roles are just reversed. There is the good girl protagonist that gets all the good things because she is behaving how she is supposed to and the female villainess who is not a good girl so deserves only bad things

[@daintybamby]

Reading your comment gives me flashbacks from the Rashta vs. Navier situation. The comments would go CRAZY over how bad they wanted a fictional character to experience the most horrific death, just to later proclaim they are "girl's girls".

[@hungthinhnguyen621]

the thing with Penelope is what happen when hard, cold realism meet absurd fantasy - a cruel joke of fate and webtoon

[@paradisefruity]

34:50 This is so real. As someone who suffered through emotional abuse in my childhood I wish I could simply travel 10 years back in time. So then maybe I wouldnt have to deal with my fathers anger issues, or my mothers emotional neglect. I feel my childhood has been robbed by my trauma and mental health issues and I want these years back so badly, just to experience what its like to be a normal teenager.

[@Zane-It]

In my experience The whole "endure it" strategy is very physically and emotionally taxing and only leads to people treating you like an emotional crutch where trauma dumping becomes the norm.

[@Garikun1654]

idk why but I recently became very addicted to korean manhwa "vilainess" stories. I'm a male from a country with very rigid traditional values (which saddens me a lot I would like my country to strife for more equality but all liberal opposition was destroyed here a long time ago) so I can't possibly understand everything that a young female may expirience in here teen years. But those stories do convey really well a trauma of broken families and expectations that those families put on a heroine. It is always especially satisfyping when protagonists of those stories manage (often just by being authentic to themselves) to suddenly become respected by those who often wronged her. It is also refreshing to watch stories where protagonist doesn't suddenly forgive her abusers as would be expected from a more traditional "good girl". Overall, thank you for your very informative video!

[@PoorMuttski]

37:30 it’s not internalized sexism, it is pragmatism. You can only be “good” within a system of control by adhering to the values of that system. I mean, what is “goodness” but a judgment based on the established rules of conduct? If patriarchy rules the land, then “good girls” will only get that label by conforming to patriarchal ideals. Put another way, “you will never dismantle the Master’s house by using the Master’s tools.” Or something like that.

[@bazazilio]

you are absolutely right, and I love that quote! although some would argue that the pragmatic approach would be instead to try and increase your chances of survival in a Master's house, instead of risking your life trying to dismantle it, especially if you're not sure how to do that. even though I personally disagree with that kind of position, because if everyone conforms, we can never change things, I can't exactly blame the "good girls" for being complacent in the patriarchy or for doing their best to survive.

[@PoorMuttski]

@@bazazilio definitely! Not everyone has the stomach (or recklessness) to go full on revolution. You will never live happily when you are also advocating for the destruction of the State, or whatever. But, I do think that simply playing by the rules will only get you ignored. Nobody cares about the “C” student. Getting the “Good” label requires some actual effort. I think that if you want to be happy, but also shape your circumstances to suit yourself, you have to be a little bit of a villain. If only for the selfishness to say, “my happiness is more important than somebody else’s moral outrage.”

[@UnpublishedChapter]

Lovely video and the in depth analysis. I used to really like the Villainesses trend in manhwa, but then it got mass-produced and most of the series now don't even feature a true villainesses, but some shallow, indecisive character who (again) needs to be rescued by her prince charming and is often being abused etc etc. It also turned into a reverse-harem or some weird romance. Imo we still need to wait for strong female leads to emerge within the pop culture or anime/manga/manhwa specifically. Can't wait for your next video, keep going!

[@Snormite]

Momo from Dandadan and Amane from the old niche anime Witchblade are some prominent examples of strong female leads, shoujo is full of such characters.

[@UnpublishedChapter]

@@Snormite Shounen tends to portray really strong female chars (even if heavily sexualized). I watched a few eps of Dandadan, but it was difficult for me to survive certain scenes depicting half or fully naked Momo. Witchblade I haven't seen, but I assume she may be similar to Bayonetta?

[@Snormite]

@@UnpublishedChapter Both Momo and Okarun end up with little clothing, so the anime gives both the same treatment because they are both dealing with aliens who want their bodies. You should continue watching it because the characters are fleshed out really well... As for Witchblade, you could say it's like Bayonetta? I'd say it's more dramatic, specially since the main character is a single mother.

[@kichikitsu]

@@Snormite wtf is dandadan about actually. ive only heard about it through people mentioning momo and okarun as SA survivors and i assumed it was like... human? i thought humans did that to them. but there are aliens involved?????

[@Snormite]

@@kichikitsu The first episode says everything you need to know, it's an over the top bizarre show with some really heartfelt moments about two teens who are united by trauma... And the source of that trauma is rooted in the paranormal, with aliens who want to use human women bodies and evil spirits who wish to possess the bodies of living humans. But even then, the motivations behind those beings is rooted in pain as well.

[@cyftsslingic1515]

i don't know why but this whole video is keep reminding me of " i'm in love with the villainesses"

[@VelCake]

Probably because that story tackles three underrated themes at once: female rivalry over real issues,.queerness and female dominance and strong will.

[@promethiamoore6462]

16:07 "bad girls do whatever they want" reminds me of the plot of the manhwa 'The duchess's 50 tea recipes' as the reborn woman chooses to live her life to complete her dream of simply drinking all types of tea, which she didn't get to complete in her old life And she has to do it in a society where Tea is seen as a barbaric drink so she opens her own business for tea with the challenge of making it palatable to the coubtry she fell into This is what she wished for and she gets it

[@Kartanaunfolded]

There is also the Villainesses Lofi Coffeehouse, the coffee counterpart that has it’s own spin. She gets the mages addicted to coffee lol, the engineering students of the fantasy world.

[@promethiamoore6462]

@Kartanaunfolded OMFG THANK YOU FOR THE RECC ILL START READING IT THIS INSTANT (COFFEE)

[@caroll.8861]

Can we talk about how cool the thumbnail is? Loved the design.

[@Mila-pb8fv]

It's from the manwha "the villainess is destined to die" it's very good!

[@beginnerseed5993]

This reminds of the manwha “kill the villainess”. The whole story shows how the women were forced to lived under the society expectations. The heroine is not a bad person, but she was told all her life to be submissive, and in comparison the villainess didn’t conform with that (the original and the mc). Not even the queen, neither the original villainess mother chose the stuff that happened to them. It shows what is talked in the video. I highly recommend to reading it.

[@MsLilly200]

28:27 "We wouldn't expect a male character to show a slave kindness and gentleness." (paraphrased but I feel it's accurate to what you said) I would. Male characters shouldn't be complete assholes to powerless people considered "below them" either??? In fact, male characters who keep slaves tend to be hated too? See like, Shield Hero.

[@tecc]

Thinking of isekai being escapist power fantasies, it’s fascinating to examine the way men and women view power. For men, we largely see physical toughness reflected. You’re tough when you can use your innate skills to physically dominate others of higher social standing and are rewarded for it. Through villainess stories, we see that for women, power is reflected in financial independence and social prowess. You assert dominance and defeat enemies through your position in society. This means, we often see reincarnation stories where the main character is born rich and becomes richer when she strategizes and invents capitalism . It’s definitely an idea worth exploring- the way the patriarchy informs media and our understanding of the world. Men’s power is in aggression while women’s power is in their calculated planning and social strategy.

[@highlorddarkstar]

To follow up on that idea, if you’re familiar with Joseph Campbell and “The Hero’s Journey “ there is a more recent work by a Gail Carriger called “The Heroine’s Journey”. And while Campbell is a bit problematic in his analysis, the idea that women’s journeys are different from men’s is very interesting to me. It explains why Hollywood gets powerful women wrong where manga and anime often get it very right.

[@hotthornes9933]

I was waiting for this kind of video analyses, and you absolutely delivered with this one, thank you so much. Mentions of "Akuyaku Reijou no Naka no Hito" are always appreciated, a gorgeous novel and manga.

[@blankname5177]

12:37 I think hope that things can be better or the person can change is valuable. It's possibility that I am betting on. I am a man and I was in abusive relationship and I hoped throughout the relationship that she would change as person for the better. She didn't unfortunately but I don't think I was wrong to hope. I still hope she changes and becomes a better person. I would hope again in my next relationship without letting myself be abused. I think we need sperate hoping for the betterment for the person we love from stay in an abusive relationship. Kierkegaard's works of love is a useful philosophical book here. My probably useless 2 cents. Thank you for the video btw!

[@bazazilio]

yes, absolutely! I think that when it comes to our specific personal life circumstances, optimism is definitely valuable and imo can even be healthy as it is something that can get you through the day when you're struggling. What Berlant specifically talks about is big cultural narratives when we're always told to chase a dream that's supposed to make us happy, but while we're chasing that dream we're suffering in the process. Like hustle culture, when you work 100 hours a day to "become a billionaire one day" and therefore become "happy" but you're obviously just destroying yourself in the process, in that case the optimism of becoming a billionaire would be hurting you rather than helping.

[@blankname5177]

@@bazazilio I understand. I think her and my understanding of hope is different, that's where the confusion lies. Thank you for replying back, love your channel!!!

[@abhishuoza9992]

Azula is a good villian character that I actually thought was ferocious, and yet completely believable and likeable in a way. Her wit was very appealing. But you're right in that there are very few female villain characters that feel believable and likeable at the same time.

[@girlie7502]

This was really good. I hope we do get to see more morally grey / villainous / bad girls in rofan and media in general who don’t need to regress or reincarnate to garner audience understanding.

[@ouraniastars]

I think you'd like "I'll Become a Villainess Who Goes Down in History" because the villainess is... different lol. She looks at her new world and went "mm, eh. A lot of things aren't working. Let's just advocate to change absolutely all of them."

[@sarysa]

This is a really interesting and well put together video that I found thanks to someone linking from the otome isekai subreddit. One minor nitpick though: Harley Quinn gained her antiheroine traits back in the 90s. Two episodes, one involving her teaming with Ivy and the other where she actually captures Batman, showed us just how her relationship with the Joker truly is. This hasn't changed much since. (Edit: oh, and the parole episode and "team with Batman" episode show her ability to heel face turn)

[@sarysa]

I guess to be more specific, she went through a character evolution on B:TAS and TNBA, which spanned from 1993 to 1998(?): V1: Unnamed henchwoman whose design could have become a duplicated uniform for female mooks in a parallel dimension V2: Named and voiced villainess but not fleshed out or independent yet V3: Tragic villainess in a bad situation V4: Antiheroine, albeit one who leans far more towards villainess than Catwoman

[@Sourmellow-1]

This is a really high quality video?? I really appreciate the subtitles too. I read english better than I understand it in listening form so its helpful ^^ (not my first language)

[@bunga-apricot]

i think the topics discussed in this video also applies a lot to "I'm In Love With the Villainess", which technically focuses more on themes of being queer from what i watched so far rather than gender, but i think the two are still intertwined. idk how to properly explain it, but because Claire is branded as a villainess due to her mean and self-serving nature, she doesn't fall into the stereotypical 'feminine' ideals that is imposed onto female characters. she, like the video states, is free from the pressures of being seen as an angel by society. of course there's the fact that she's very much an annoying classist at the start but the narrative still gives her more grace than the og story of the otome game she's in. at least in this new narrative, she isn't doomed. in a similar vein, Rei, the reincarnated heroine of the story, deals heavily with the tribulations in being the 'good girl' heroine. only this time it's doubled by the fact that she is a queer woman who faced being judged and rejected in her previous life solely for being attracted to other women. there's even a whole segment in ep2 going into her experiences with sexuality and her defense mechanism of fawning over Claire being the result of the pushback she faced. it's honestly a shame queer themes aren't more popular in these villainess stories, a queer person reincarnating as the hated but ultimately free villainess would go HARD. i think it's interesting seeing queer themes intertwined with gender especially with stories centered around female characters. ig that's why i'm a fan of stories like Revolutionary Girl Utena and Rose of Versailles lol.

[@Kyosumari]

**it's honestly a shame queer themes aren't more popular in these villainess stories, a queer person reincarnating as the hated but ultimately free villainess would go HARD. i think it's interesting seeing queer themes intertwined with gender especially with stories centered around female characters. ig that's why i'm a fan of stories like Revolutionary Girl Utena and Rose of Versailles lol.** I would agree with you there! Sadly it's almost always queer-bait at best - the villainess / regressor / reincarnated protag ends up being so assertive and bad ass that their female maids and closest confidantes become their biggest fans, sometimes even lowkey in love with them, but the stories rarely ever explore those angles and instead still opt for the stereotypical prince charming routes. (most manwa has pretty shitty men I would never want to date IRL in them if you ask me, I almost always ship the sapphic bait harder than the hetero-plot) I forget which one it was, but "the little mermaid" turns out to be able to swap genders and sex and loves the female protag without any of the typical tropes and holy goodness I wish she was a genuine love interest for our very very hetero protagonist in that story. XD

[@asteroid1100]

Something I'd really like to see more often is the ML and FL working together, rather than the FL having to suffer and make efforts alone until the ML starts loving and ultimately "saving" her.

[@skkadoot9533]

The only thing i disagree is that only villainesses are destined to fail, i didn't read any of these villainesses stories so i don't know how immoral their actions are, but other villains usually lose in the end, even when they are the "heroes" of the story. Walter White, Light Yagami, Tony Soprano, they all die in the end. Even if we root for them during the story we don't want to see them go unpunished

[@mashrafus]

Nah alot of ppl don't want em punished I think what she's trynna say is that villainesses are easier to hate their failure is usually cathartic Maybe idk

[@imaginieiota6298]

I think that's more like writer's morale, which is why they're awesome! But in fandom spaces, they're(characters) often seen as legends. Also a lot of people hate writers for either giving the character's comeuppance( consequences){especially Walter)for their action or killing them(Light). Just take a look at modern anime fandom spaces.

[@yourimagination8589]

@@imaginieiota6298I thought people hated the ending light got because it was not well thought out especially with how detailed it was so far. I’m not sure though since I didn’t watch the series. I saw a lot of people who said it felt out of character for them.

[@rosl.]

Thank you for this video. Ive been obsessed with this genre for the last.. 5...6.. years now? And I could never quite find the words to explain why i enjoyed it as much as I did, but you verbalized it perfectly.

[@tohrurikku]

One of the things that irks me about the Villainess troupe is that often the 'crimes' the original villainess did is not really bad, or she was framed, and it is the people around her that hyped the crimes up to the point she was either exiled or killed because getting rid of her profited them. Often the 'crime' is being angry because the 'hero'/OML and the OMC had an affair, and original 'villainess' did not want to divorce or look the other way. One direction that the villainess troupe is going that I sometimes like is when the new/reborn mc decides to actually do bad things, because being a quiet good girl will not help at all. I think the ones I have the issue with is the ones where the villainess punishes people how has not actually done anything yet, and the person has a chance to change, but the MC does not want to give them a chance to.

[@abhishuoza9992]

An intersting question is how women feel about "rough heroine" type characters. Are their views just as bound by gender norms? What about "smooth hero" type characters? Are they seen as okay by women/men?

[@arpitanayak3753]

i just watched this whole video in one sitting without skipping or speeding it up, absolutely adore your eloquence. thank you for the video!

[@anonarat]

This was a fascinating watch as a fan of the villainess genre. I do think one of the most interesting stories in this genre that I've read is The One Within the Villainess, because of how it deals with the reincarnator and villainess relationship, and the fact that the story follows the original villainess, tempered by who the reincarnator was.

[@boxingelfis1499]

36:58 One of the best examples of this is Rashta. To this day, I do not understand the hate towards her. I get that people may not like her "woe is me" perspective even as she makes others suffer, but are we really going to act as though, considering what she has lived through only to end up being trapped in an uncertain position that could be taken away at any moment, having no true allies in her corner, and having no where to go back to, are we really going to act as though we don't understand her motivations or why she is the way she is? Honestly, I personally am incapable of reading Remarried Empress any further because of how much the story itself simultaneously demonises and ridicules Rashta.

[@maerru5]

I just wanna say this was such an interesting video, I haven't seen anyone tackle this subgenre to this extent before now and you did a great job!

[@yulogicarchive]

I don't have the presence of mind for anything more eloquent right now, but it was an interesting listen! Thank you for the cool analysis! (I laughed a little at the mention of the Duke of the North because YEAH there's like one in almost every manhwa haha)

[@miku9216]

i see penelope on the thumbnail, i watch the video

[@moonwater2774]

Girl I’m just popping in to say that you’re an amazing editor and script makers. It’s so impactful! Like probably some of the best on vibes alone and the points that are being made in such a digestible and yet easily understandable way. It’s scratching my brain at like 3 AM 😌

[@BrytteM]

Ohhhh this was amazing! Also I have to laugh at the ehem... extremely ruffled feathers in some comments, but we'll nicely imagine those are just mindless bots. I do adore the way the true villainess stories are evolting, improving, going further!

[@gracedilawri9741]

Another excellent video! (I will be re-watching it for years to come) I’ve been waiting for a genuine analysis of this genre forever and your video gives me so much to ponder about

[@h44rp]

i can name at least 5 different media where the good moral male hero has an edgier more utilitarian female love interest the fandom hates but that same fandom ships the good guy with - not even antihero - a MALE VILLAIN. this is definitely a misogyny thing. its even more infuriating to me bcz most of the time these fandoms are female dominated. if men were hating the “bad girl” i’d be like okay thats just misogyny but women doing it for yaoi purposes im like *do you hate yourself that much*

[@bazazilio]

exactly! then we ask ourselves why women like to identify with bad boy characters, when bad girls are literally not allowed to exist without people immediately pointing out how wrong and horrible they are.

[@bluemeg1787]

I'd say there's a lot of internalize misogyny and coping on that as well. But it has to do with why BL fandoms and BL ship are so big with girls and women, and why in BL ships there is usually a strict dynamic of top/bottom and character are always a bit (or VERY) feminized. I have watch some video of people talking about it. But it's basically like this. It's about being able to relate, but not to wear the character's shoes. It's escapism. When it's about a BL ships, women put themselves in "the Observer" role. They simply watch and feel with the character yet are not contributing to it at all, and thus no consequences are directed at them But it gets better, they get to CHOSE to relate only to the good part and block out the bad part. When it's a guy there's a layer of unrelatability there. It's safer to feel and not uncomfortable when the story are RIDDLED with toxic trope like r@pe, kidnaping, emotional abused, etc, because it's not directed at a girl, not ME of any girl as well. It's male on male violence, and I get to enjoy it. Its like back in the day people went and watch Rome fighters. It's exciting, and it's not their pain, not YOUR pain. Its also a form of coping with their repressed aggression, to see a male vulnerable to violence, beaten, bruised, hurt and toss away like a female do, but you will never be able to truly relate, cause that's a guy. He can go to the gym, get jacked thanks to testosterone and protein, and fight back whenever he wants cause he's a guy, unlike....me. One weak female, by nature. Or the other side of the spectrum is to see the guy trap forever in the cycle of violence. It's the same thing. Another aspect of it is male character are more likely to be respected. This is for more soft stories. It's more positive but still escapism. It's because the relationship is between 2 males, it's kind of expected that they would truly love and respect each other. Cause even if they are forever happy, they are forever unable to reproduce (I KNOW THE ABO TROPE STATE OTHERWISE BUT BARE WITH ME) You cannot make a traditional family dynamic with a BL ship, but they are still happy, right ? Not bounded by children or any value that are usually taught as needed to keep a family happy. They are also more likely to be on par with each other when it comes to physical power = more respect. Just 2 well-rounded person with like, dislike, flaws, and they're IN LOVE. Isn't it just so, dreamy ? Now, when you introduce a female, the unrelatability of a male is broken. It becomes TOO RELATABLE. It becomes, a projection. What if the male gets hurt ? No, what if that's a girl ? What if that's ME ? What do you mean SHE gets to have what she wants and I DON'T ? And that is when fear, or envy and internalized misogyny steps in. It's either I don't want to be her OR I'm so much better than her. It's when the bad parts also become relatable and you can't stop your feelings. She is BREAKING my forever unrelatable fantasies. Get out, get out, GET OUT. You are dragging me back to my cruel realities, and so you are unlikable. Either it's fear of violence or jealousy of a better relationship. BL does not directly address women issues but it makes a good enough escape to cope. And many will FIGHT for it instead of facing reality and try to fix it. Cause that hurts

[@imaginieiota6298]

​@@bluemeg1787 yes but running away from reality or bad parts is not good for anyone's psyche. Also most of the population that consumes bl like horn, it's an addiction. Btw your explanation is so dope, I enjoyed it!❤

[@h44rp]

@@bluemeg1787 while i agree and this was very interesting to read, i have two things to add: none of the media i had in mind was east asian nor romance media i was thinking more 2000s tv shows and comic book movies so these aren’t the first places most women would look for escapism especially the romantic/sexual kind secondly while i get the psychological & projection aspects of the subject and i’ve been there when i was a repressed teenager, 20+ y/o women in fandom spaces writing paragraphs of misogynistic hate vents about the female character counterpart of a male character they adore is cognitive dissonance at best, i think as women we could do better and im not saying this in a “let women be evil” way either of course anyone can hate any character for any reason but i just want people to be more conscious.

[@Mih_Soares]

👀 I'm quoting this for life!💜 16:06 "Maybe good girls go to heaven and bad girls go... Wherever they want." - by Dinara, from Bazazilio

[@hyeocat2216]

Man this is such a well constructed, edited, and written video, I hope to see your channel get big in the video essay scene.

[@yivrne]

Villainess stories are my favorite genre. It's so precious.

[@rizkysetiadi2441]

There is some south korean webnovel called Omniscient reader view point and it made by a marriage couple. I thing they really naild female and male character really well. I dont want to spoiled anything but this was story for love for the story itself. It look like just another power fantasy at first, but when you reach that epilog, you will find out why this story is special.

[@bazazilio]

I haven't read the novel, but I love the webtoon!! (although I'm a couple of years behind haha, I need to reread and keep up) but I really am impressed with its character work. it's great and I hope the story will get even more recognition when the anime adaptation comes out.

[@rizkysetiadi2441]

@bazazilio oh so you have reaf the webtoon. The novel is better because ORV is a story for reading. In the webtoon, we more like using 3 person perspective meanwhile in the novel we well see the world with kim dokja POV and he is really unrealible narator. Han sooyoung maybe look like get behind kim dokja and yoo junhyuk but she actually the most importent MC. Spoiler : Han sooyoung is the writer behind TWSA and ORV itself. Yup, the story is actually written by the character itself (breaking the 5 wall). We are also kim dokja reincarnation, basically every reader is kim dokja (kim reader). Yoo junhyuk sponsor (the most ancient dream) is actually the real kim dokja who dream, what if he and the character he love is have an adventure together. Secretive plotter is actually the real yoo junhyuk from TWSA.

[@trishachandra1216]

@@rizkysetiadi2441 oh no why did I read the spoiler 😭 I think the novel will still be enjoyable im a webtoon reader

[@rizkysetiadi2441]

@@trishachandra1216 watch orv in 6 minute in youtube, you will get spoiled but actually no because how confusing it was. Trush me, you will laugh and confuse if you wach it

[@vidividivicious]

I wonder how the Claymore manga fits in this

[@mohammedhussain1935]

Was waiting for a very long time for a new video, thankyou.

[@blankname5177]

13:43 I think the association that's being between goodness and femininity as oppressive strikes me largely correction. But the claim that to put oneself first or being selfish is liberation I feel bit ambivalent. As you said, being selfish and putting oneself first is the baseline for probably vast majority of human but to say that as a positive good might be problematic. Although self sacrifice isn't something that should be imposed on someone, if someone choose to do it willingly we can recognize that as a good in the world. Maybe something perhaps we all can aspire to.

[@averlinbc5680]

an interesting part of human psychology is If you expect someone do something for you, you feel a negative emotions if they don’t (even if they themselves never said they were going to) because there is a society expectation , if considering all others before yourself is a type of goodness considered feminine by default, the reaction to it not being fulfilled is negative ,even if we can understand that’s not logical. Male characters might be rewarded for being selfless as going above and beyond being a good person. The same way male characters are thought badly of if they don’t bravely stand up to defend others physically. standing up and defending someone is virtuous but it’s not the default.

[@nonamepasserbya6658]

This video and many others are just trying to push the selfish = good and liberating for girls message. They are declaring war on feminity and kindness while preaching that it's oppressing them. Kindness is a dying art these days just cause it's free to be a villain/hater

[@blankname5177]

@@averlinbc5680 you are probably right, that's how things are right now. Maybe we can move beyond how things are right now someday...

[@sugarzblossom8168]

Self sacrifice can be very negative even when you impose it on yourself. It can leave you feeling tired, used and like you should not take your wants into consideration.

[@abhishuoza9992]

Claire from house of cards is another good example of a "rough heroine". Robin Wright really made me like that characted even if she was quite anit-hero ish, and the whole couple felt like quite an insane dynamic (i can only speak for season 1-2 thats all I've watched) Btw I agree with your video's point, sorry for just bringing up examples, I'm just doing it to identify when is it that we like gender defying female characters and why. It can help us learn something

[@elliebee8971]

This was great! You’ve given me food for thought, that’s for sure :) it’s really interesting how the media we consume reflects society’s views at the time of their creation and invites for critique if you look beyond the cover. Even if the author didn’t intend for it, we can look further. For me, the beauty of art and creation is in the opportunity of interpretation each of us can make of it in our own little bubble. As a side note, it was an instant subscription for me. It felt like a nice conversation with a friend on an interesting topic. The mood, designs and even fonts used were easily enjoyable aesthetically for me 😊 thank you for always citing your sources as well ! Great work! Thank you for your efforts and I’ll see you in your other videos :]

[@Smilepiien]

A fitting saying: "No good deed goes unpunished." I've been writing Isekai stories since I was a kid-always about a girl entering another world with an obvious purpose. I enjoy writing morally grey characters, so it’s no surprise the villainess genre is my favorite. This video made me reflect on my current story and whether I’ve truly let my characters act freely. Did I create their trauma just to justify their actions? Honestly, I can’t say. My process isn’t structured-I start with an idea, but once my characters develop, the plot takes a backseat, and the scenes often write themselves through dialogue. I think my fascination with anti-heroes, is what led me to create an unjust world for my characters to explore morality. Themes like idealism, cynicism, and gray areas of justice driving the narrative, with my main characters clashing: "The ends justify the means" vs. "Do what feels right, no matter the cost." Both philosophies can make them anti-heroes given their experiences. I often question their reasoning, but I haven’t considered if my female lead’s ideals differ because of our gender-very interesting.

[@Orange_Tree_]

Am a simple critter: I see Penelope - I click.

[@kichikitsu]

27:36 - honestly, i think the worst thing this series has done is just. how they handle slavery. like yes, it makes absolute sense why penelope would be treating this like a very, very serious game. to her knowledge, thats all that it IS. why would she treat these characters like real human being when they exist inside a game for her? her goal is to survive and go home. its kinda insane how many ppl (likely kids but still) complain that she uses them to survive, bc like. yeah? no shit? they arent real to her. but also... (spoilers from here on out, leading up to the most recent arc in the manhwa) was it necessary to villainize eckles like that. was it necessary to paint him as narratively In The Wrong for not being okay with being a slave? was it necessary to push him into the Slave that is Actually Evil (And Used To Be Powerful) So You Shouldn't Feel Bad trope? why were the other characters given some grace with both their trauma AND being manipulated/literally brainwashed by yvonne, but he was given none? its not even just about how penelope uses him. he does not exist as a real person to her; but solely as a tool just like the rest of them. it's about how the narrative itself encourages you to view him. man i hate it when good soup is ruined by prejudiced writing.

[@Readydaer]

What an amazing video! You deserve more views :)

[@19spacecats]

Aaaaa I’m getting strong Anthy vibes. While close to Utena, Anthy feels like an antagonist once you look back on a second watch through. Absolutely watch Utena!

[@rulaalwitry6020]

I am only a few minutes in but I’m so impressed with your editing!!

[@aireal79]

I am quite glad to see that the genre is truly picking up steam; not only is it great to finally see a proper representation of wanting to be free from a pre-determined “fate” that comes with gender or personality, but also one where mental/abstract, not physical (as is often with male-based isekai, where every problem is resolved my martial power) but rather a more intellectual dispute; a more scheming side to conflict that I am quite happy to see is on the rise.

[@halfchiangel88]

I've been wanting to watch a video like this as a lover of villainess stories :) Great video!

[@ArchivistMarker]

speaking of villainess, i come upon a story that may related to this "Nokori Ichinichi de Hametsu Flag Zenbu Heshiorimasu: Zamaa RTA Kiroku 24Hr" as the villainess, Alexandra, just remember her past after she does all the evil classic villainess deeds. and there's evidence of her deeds too. the problem? 1. The Heroine are on Reverse Harem route, so all capture targets will absolutely against her. 2. She got the memory and realized it just 24 hours before the condemnation begins. So her decision is to pull all strings to ensure that all capture targets barring the prince will not attend the event. and legitimize herself within the 24 hours timeframes. Also her reason behind doing this, because on reverse harem route, the heroine will forgives and pardon the Alexandra for her crime, something that Alexandra herself rather die then accepts it. this also shown how realistically fucked up the reverse harem route is, which Alexandra herself exploits, as the Targets are not only the Prince, but also a Teacher, General, and The Prime Minister (who's also the King's Brother and The Said Prince's Uncle) aka the nation's *Important figures*. this factor makes it easy for Alexandra to find allies who absolutely doesn't agree with arrangement.

[@KamiKaze43v3r]

Does anyone have recs for a villainess series where theyre a legit villain and not morally grey or just a good girl but misunderstood??

[@ji1160]

yayy new upload!! so excited to watch 😍 also commenting for the algorithm

[@dandeliondot]

Your essays are amazing. Thank you for this beauty, both intellectual and visual!

[@omaewarick9356]

This video made me think about the Kumo desu ga, nani ka? (Im a spider, so what?) semantics. Gave me a bigger appreciation of the story,

[@CrowAkechi_The_Luminary]

The good girl and bad girl thing really hits me as a trans girl, being told about these narratives and wanting to be a girl, it gives me a perspective of the problems women face and the problems in the world, but regardless, even if I end up a "bad" girl, I'll be unabashedly myself, that much should be enough, if there isnt a happy ending, I'll make a happy ending for myself if I have to, because all girls, good, bad and all in between, deserve a happy ending

[@CrowAkechi_The_Luminary]

I hope others see this and are helped by this, being a girl doesnt always mean you have to be a good girl, to all of you who are here, it'll be ok, we love you all! 🫂💜

[@lilyzhou6624]

This is so great! Love the analysis. Looking forward to future videos! ❤

[@abhishuoza9992]

Tsubase Hanekawa from Bakemonogatari was also a likeable and intersting character despite being an anti-hero and defying gender norms (At least from what I can remember which tbh is pretty vague). Again, could only find one example, and we definitely need good Rough Heroine characters in media

[@bluegrays9872]

I love love looooove 'villainesses are destined to die'. I read the lite novel but still enjoy the webtoon as it is coming out. It's my number 1 favorite webtoon.

[@gwendolynsnyder463]

If I got my ass up to actually start writing, I'd write a story where Earth is flooded, humanity adapted, and aliens invade. One of my OCs in that scenario is a female General named Adalyn. Now, many of my OCs are neurodivergent, and Adalyn is a sociopath, however, she still is a great strategist, who still works for Earth's advantage, because she knows she's screwed too, just like all other humans, if the aliens named Inkarians (octopus based aliens with blue blood) win, and conquer Earth. They were the ones who flooded Earth to begin with, because they polluted their own home planet and need a new planet to call home. Adalyn is the brains behind the resistance against the Inkarians, and despite being a sociopath, she's one of the good guys, because she just knows she's screwed if she messes this up. When a city raft gets destroyed: other people: "Oh no! All those civilians! Dead! They had families that probably mourn them! This is so tragic!" Adalyn: "Oh shit! I should fortify those city rafts a bit more! I just lost a whole bunch of potential conscripts!" Also, Adalyn is supposed to be that "super sexy" simp magnet, not really because of how she's dressing, she just wears the General uniform with a skirt, and has pink hair and purple eyes, it's because of how she carries herself, because she used to be a sex worker, and all that trauma and having to be ruthless in that business, plus her time as a soldier some years earlier, when due to the Inkarian invasion, she had to join the army to not be penniless. Now, the army did offer jobs for sex workers to soldiers, but Adalyn thought "That salary is so small, I made a triple of that before the Inkarian invasion by just sleeping with dudes! I'll join the combat forces instead, they at least pay a proper wage!" , and since she used to be a sex worker, she knew how to manipulate her higher ups, and when to snitch on higher ups, and when to remain silent, and also when to sleep with someone, to move upwards in the military ranks. She essentially slept herself up the ranks, but that's because she doesn't have the luxury of being a nepo baby. And all the main characters have superpowers thanks to a vaccination against the virus that Inkarians are spreading that only people with a rare gene can survive. And Adalyn's super power comes from the blood element, and Adalyn expends Vitamin D from her blood in order to use her powers. She can choose to calm someone down with her blood powers, or fire up her teammates by making their blood have adrenaline, but she can also choose to intimidate an enemy through her blood powers, or to make an enemy so stressed, that they start making mistakes. Naturally, Adalyn's skin is tanned, because she needs to sunbathe a LOT in order to catch up with the Vitamin D she's losing from her powers. Also, salmon is a staple in her diet, due to her need for vitamin D. Adalyn is quite a baddie though. She would absolutely sacrifice lives if it served her objectives, and she assassinated several people to serve her goal. Her personality is jaded and ruthless, but she's also confronting her trauma from past combat and her past as a sex worker, her alcoholic father who drank all the money away that her mother has earned, and Adalyn having to start in her literal teens the moment she just looked remotely adult, because her family had no money, and from growing up in poverty and unable to socialize with her classmates because she was just too poor to have the hobbies they had.

[@fredoflih7373]

First of all, i discovered your channel with this video, and you just got another sub ! I like your work and will start to dig in, hope you'll keep going. But there was a few mistakes about Harley Quinn. Originally, Harley's not in love with the Joker. Harleen Quinzel is a PMD who grew obsessed about superhumans and their ability, particularly villains, because of her lack of control on her own life as a child/teenager. She began to work at Gotham's Asylum and was sent to try to psychanalyse the Joker. She knew that wouldn't be that easy so she turns himself into Harley Quinn ("Arlequin" on Mr. J's recommandation) to help him escape and become a part of his life, faking love and admiration, becoming a criminal, being brutalized (by J and his men, but also by Batman, who tend to be a horrible, violent and ruthless ba****d with her) etc... But it was Joker's plan, not hers. She developped profund traumas due to her treatment and a hard Stockholm Syndrome, caused by Batman's ruthlessness and Joker's manipulating "love". Harleen was a girl brutalised by men, she was a psychiatrist, a trained gymnast who got manipulated and tortured because she wanted control on her own life. Now she is just a crazy violent antiheroine.

[@bridgettelair370]

Love the villainess trope! I've read many of them. Tons of them, I've read most of the ones you listed or shown. I'm actually not the biggest fan of The Villainess Reverses the Hourglass, Aria just wasn't very likable to me, not because of her pettiness or scheming but because she never really seems to change much nor is she very capable. Her problems are so easily solved by the hourglass and the solutions never were very clever to me either. So I would say her incompetence is what makes her unlikable to me or maybe the story was incompetent. IDK she was a villainess in a very boring way with very little stakes. Though I love Penelope/Siyeon from Villains are Destined to Die! Her story isn't necessarily about growth or finding love but about survival to her, she wants to reach the end of the game, so to me her actions are understandable. Hard to treat the other characters like people if the game system is constantly popping up and breaking reality by following game logic. I find her very compelling and the story is very interesting. Totally recommend Lady Devil for a "bad girl" read even though it's not really the villainess trope, take heed of warning tags though it's a very dark and messed up story, definitely one of those horrors of being a woman in olden times stories. It's got SA, incest, gore, infanticide, all the works. Anette has many issues and is heavily flawed, it's a great read in my opinion but the end does feel a bit anticlimatic. (I think It's based on a light novel that isn't finished) If you want a "good girl" read who's story has some great themes and characters try Kanata Kara, a classic shoujo isekai that I've reread like at least eight times. Noriko is a normal girl navigating a fantasy world and trying her best. It's nice that whenever she's down about her situation she chooses to focus on what she can do rather than all the things she can't. Just a wholesome story.

[@Mih_Soares]

Two 'Rough Heroines' that are BEAUTIFULY💜 made and to die for✨, are the protagonists: Remilia, from "The One Within The Villainess" and Larcy, from "‏I Will Fall With The Emperor". Both of them could be considered anti heroines at certain points, but I personally think that, in general, their redeeming qualities and motives (which are massive), don't outweigh the, CLEARLY STATED, bad intending and remorseless actions, even when they, subsequently, generate positive outcomes for a majority, later on. They are evil and mercilessly, but we love them for it.

[@WhiteCresentKnight]

I’m so glad that Isekai is going back to the girlies

[@13Okuni1]

No hate here, I adore this video and agree with most of the points here. But I think it is a CRIME that this video is here without a single mention of Kill The Villainess. I'm assuming you simply haven't read it, and if so, please do. As spoiler-free as I can, in Kill The Villainess, the themes of women being nothing but punching bags at the mercy of the patriarchy and so-called rules are at an extreme, so much so that it barely feels right calling it an escapist fantasy because of how unforgivingly real most of the characters feel. It's an intense read, with the main girl Eris being isekaied as a villainess and instead of choosing revenge against those who wronged her or avoiding death, everything she does is to try and return home. She treats everyone as fictional characters, and is cruel and cold most of the time. Yet she understands struggles and has compassion for even those she hates when it matters, but doesn't show it as she genuinely sees no point due to how everyone just treats her as a monster, or uses her against her will. There's also a lot the story has to say about the original "Good Girl" (Helena) having to deal with being the good kind image of girls as the world's protagonist, which really makes me feel all sorts of things, and is something I personally haven't seen in any other one of these stories yet. Genuinely a kind person, but suffers for it as a result. Both these two women show all the aspects of the gender norms women have to deal with, plus some later story details. Most of the men are awful, but none of them feel cartoonishly trashy as in a lot of other stories. They feel like real men I would meet in my real life, and the dangers that come with them as someone who was born a girl. TL;DR, Kill The Villainess is not my favourite title in the genre of the Villainess stories, but personally for me, in terms of violating gender norms, this one takes the crown.

[@kissedangel]

Wow, this was such a great video. Thank you for your work. Great research! I think I will be watching some anime with some Villainesses the upcomming days! :>

[@fakename5049]

Really interesting and well-made essay. As a long time reader of "otome isekai", it was really enjoyable to see the genre so eloquently analysed and its place in modern culture and current societal shifts. If I may be so bold, I have some sort of response/theories for a point raised during the video: Why these stories often reflect uncritically other societal problems like capitalism and classism instead of also "dreaming" of more equal societies? (Apologies in advance if this is a bit nonsensical, English isn't my first language and I'm writing this at 1am) Personally, I think that a reason for this (beyond the internal bias and personal beliefs of the author) could simply be that the fantasy of the villain is in a way a bit selfish and self contained, and that's all it wants to be. These are, at their core, the fantasy of escaping not only the pressures of being the good girl, but also just current life in general. Most importantly, due to their place of origin, these stories are mostly about escaping current life in modern South Korea or Japan and their VERY capitalistic and patriarchal societies. You already talked at length in the video about the psychological purpose of the Villainess, what fantasy it serves: both to oppose gender norms and to give an outlet or relief to common traumas and hardships modern middle-class and working-class women (and people socially perceived as women) might suffer. This, I think, it's also why they are all rich and beautiful. The Villainess fantasy's objetive is to serve as an escape for the everyday-life of the reader, but not as a dream of changing the world. The reader most likely suffers, in some way, not only under patriarchy but many other societal ills as all of them are deeply intertwined, but the Villainess story only wants to give the "dream" of fighting against gender norms and the expectations of the good girl, without also having to fight, say, capitalism (or whatever pseudo-feudalism they have going on). It only wishes to imagine *relief* for them, to fight some issues and escape others. It *could* also serve a bigger fantasy of an equal world with a focus on Villainess and starting by fighting gender inequality, but isn't that such a tall order? The Villainess needs an unequal world to rebel against, but isn't fighting the whole world and all it's problems such and endless struggle? Perhaps a bit too similar to the endless struggle of the real world. It is selfish, but it is also a bit of the whole point. It wants to offer a specific relief to more individual anxieties. Personally, I don't think it's fully a bad thing. Of course, you do have to keep in mind the more problematic ideas it replicates as a feature, such as classism, and it would be great to see some of these stories tackle more diverse issues (or simply, to tackle them more radically). On the other hand, not all stories will want to tackle such heights and, hey, who doesn't dream of suddenly becoming rich and quitting forever the daily grind of a shitty job? As a side note, I do think other reason for this (and other points brought up during the video such as the "Villainess" not being particularly morally-challenging) is that a lot of those stories are, well... not that well written. They are still products to be sold, often under crushing conditions, and as such a lot tend to be simpler or just follow trends.

[@Mih_Soares]

I always thought that the "snow white and the huntsman" movie, should have been more about The Evil Queen, Ravenna, and her path to downfall. Not only because Charlize Theron's character it's THE MOST (and only, to be fair) remarkable and remembered character in that movie, but it would have been a much better story. The sequel only confirmed that, since The Snow Queen, portrait by Emily Blunt, was again the highlight of the movie, and even deepened the lore of her older, evil sister, Ravenna!!!! She would have been such a perfect Rough Heroine Protagonist 🥲🥲

[@monarantala6897]

Very good and balanced analysis! 👌🏻

[@amehayami934]

Actually right now I really don't care about being love. This is my super Villainess Era Since people are taking my rights away ya I'm going to be a very very bad girl. That saying "if you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. " ya that is true besides people already make me out to be one anyone so I might as well benefit from being a villainess 😊

[@imaginieiota6298]

I have been obsessed with the villainess genre, it started during pandemic and stuck around. It was also a time where main female characters from big franchises(movie) were getting a lot of hate. And I was in hs so I was kind of growing out of women in anime like couldn't watch anything without noticing the specialisation. This is the time I found Transmigration/ Reincarnation genre also got webtoon and tapas. The first one I reas was WMMAP I was obsessed with it, I loved the Mc the drawing was beautiful and the story itself doesn't revolve around romance. I read it believing Claude was the villain but alas was let down. Still this made me fall into the Villainess ravithole. I found Villains are destined to die next it was very different from usual webtoon slop I loved every bit of it ( except the twist) and then read Your Throne, Kill the Villainess etc. I couldn't figure out why I was obsessed with them and why when some story turned The villainess into pushover hero, I got so exasperated! This video essentially put my feelings into words. I mean I knew it was a pathetic part of me that wants to correct past failures and sadness and was living vicariously through them. But why morally ambiguous characters? I think they seem more accessible and real even though everything is already in dreamland hehe. Anw I hope you continue to be youtube! I enjoy these essays❤❤❤.

[@dontpreorder2783]

Bravo, very good video, especially interesting watch as someone who isn’t necessarily the target audience for these types of stories

[@kiragnia]

I haven't finished watching yet, but it's already a splendid, well-written video about this topic! Villainess stories are my current favorite trope, so I found this video extremely fascinating. I had to pause to talk about 29:48, "what happened to the original villainess?" is my favorite question I always ask whenever I start reading a new villainess story. Personally, I don't really like transmigration/reincarnation stories precisely because this -- yes, the new 'villainess' (aka the reincarnator/transmigrator) got a happy ending as the villainess, but what happens to the original one? Do their stories end without satisfying closure? This is why I much prefer time travel/regression stories, where it's still the original villainess, just with a new perspective and outlook to their lives.

[@HerName-r9f]

Please give me a villainess reading list I am dying for more content from this genre.

[@Smilepiien]

Not sure if this will fit completely "The Remarried Empress" a webtoon. The main character is put in unfair situations and accepting it being necessary for her to endure because of her status and gender, but later when she breaks free from this and get some more agency it is satisfying to see. The characters and story is well written. It isn't a isekai though but she does get viewed as a villainess at times. She is a strong character from the beginning but the difference is her breaking free from this belief that she has to stay perfect and kind no matter what.

[@lucymaycry7218]

This is such an extremely good essay

[@phongkuBisous]

what an absurdly well made video essay edit: are those manhwas? what are your personal reqs? 👀

[@KaterinaDeAnnika]

I really really love and appreciate this video. Subscribed!

[@bluebellncm]

Very well researched!

[@Ninakoru]

What a huge piece of work. Like and this comment, deserves every bit of it.

[@renaria3160]

Yayy, new video by youu

[@Browine]

I had to pause this video and say your editing is freaking phenomenal! I am not done watching the video but you and your team did an amazing job! Love the image references in the corner too! This should be a standard in any. manga/manwha essay

[@SamuelOliveiraCampos-qw2uj]

Great video!

[@Absbor]

cool video. thank you for the subtitles. :-)

[@PokettoMusic]

really liked the video, subscribed!

[@superiorchieftm8288]

I'm quite literally addicted to these stories, not gonna lie.😂😂

[@syedarizvi7290]

Awesome video! Loved every second of it! Could you please give us the titles of the comics you showed?

[@bazazilio]

thank you! please check the right bottom side of the video, I made sure to add captions/sources to all media when they appear on screen.

[@syedarizvi7290]

@@bazazilio Thank you so much! If you don't mind, could you please give us a tutorial on how you edit your videos? They are so beautiful and aesthetic and I feel so inspired by you! Please teach us

[@Ryuondo]

I really wish Isekai didn't make up the vast majority of modern East Asian fantasy media. There are a few that are really good like The Saga of Tanya the Evil, Death Mage, Gate, Villianess Reloaded!, The Devil is a Part Timer, and Yakuza Reincarnation. Most of them however are pretty much 90% copy and paste of the same characters, stories, and the only things that differentiate them are meta game mechanics that they have. As much fun as I have reading them, the main characters are Gary Stu's and the stories are usually slop. I also hate how even in non-isekai fantasy manga or anime they still have elements of Isekai. It's what makes the ones that don't use those elements stand out, which is good, but also muddies otherwise good fantasy series with game mechanics that shouldn't be in it. When it comes down to Villianess manga/manhwa it's nice most tend to lack the game mechanics, ubless they involve reincarnating into an Otome Game.

[@chloeondricek4433]

I absolutly love this video, Thank You!