Exploiting Kerbal Physics To Make 'Impossible' Gyroscope Drive

[@Danny2462]

This is beautiful.

[@seanwehner8704]

lol, new video idea

[@Ali107]

When are you going to make your next whacky KSP video? btw I am one of your subscriber!

[@antontkach]

Ridiculously long arms for fast traveling and, of course, total Universe destruction. BTW, I'm curious if the Kraken can be summoned if a kerbal in smashed between those two/more rotating parts

[@maxwellmondo4857]

Please make this. Somebody.

[@TheEventHorizon909]

Oh noes. The god of Kraken destruction himself has arrived. We're all f*cked

[@dunbar9finger]

Scott, the fuel transfer rate is not hardcoded into a private variable of KSP itself. It's hardcoded into a private variable of kOS, not of KSP. It's in src/kOS/Suffixed/ResourceTransferValue.cs, line 16, as: private const float RESOURCE_SHARE_PER_UPDATE = 0.005f; There is no such thing as the stock game's "standard" resource transfer rate according to its physical rules. Instead it implements resource transfers entirely inside the user interface code, not inside its "laws of physics" code. So when we're bypassing the normal user interface to instead provide a scripting interface, we don't really have a standard 'here's how resource transfers work" API call to make use of. We had to make something up that felt roughly on-par with what the stock game allows. What we made up, was 0.005 resource per physics update. That private variable you're talking about is ours, not KSP's.

[@AerynGaming]

Isn't the stock resource transfer rate roughly proportional to the fuel tank size? So a 5m tank could transfer 64x faster than a 1.25m tank, etc. When you get into orders of magnitude that matters a lot

[@xfenwrathx]

I'm sorry to be pedantic but it would be more accurate to say 'hard coded as a constant', as private variables are not hard coded, and constants are not variables. But I'm sure anybody who cares already understands what you mean :P Just had to scratch that itch... (all in the context of C#, other languages may have different semantics for constants and private)

[@namewarvergeben]

So beautiful how you can fluently switch between seeing bouncing and counterrotating arms

[@AMpr0d]

I noticed one other pattern you can follow, really spaces me out.

[@dataexpunged3914]

@@AMpr0d which one

[@dataexpunged3914]

I spot german

[@cybercat1531]

Science/KSP, Also known as "Hacking the Universe by Exploiting known bugs in physics"

[@ferociousfeind8538]

"Totally a Human" Haha!

[@donaldlv7324]

"known bugs in physics" are you suggesting something....

[@cybercat1531]

Donald Lv Well there are known bugs and there are unknown bugs. We just got used to calling the known bugs 'features'

[@TheMajorpickle01]

"We just got used to calling the known bugs 'features'" Literally the foundation of quantum mechanics from dirac :P

[@bobsaggat]

Scot built and proved the EM drive in ksp

[@Koroistro]

Hm , doesn't the EM drive theoretically exploit inconstincencies in inertia which cause a differential in momentum instead of exploiting momentum directly? I have read a couple of theoretical papers which attempt to explain the EM drive , not really conclusive. But a quantization of acceleration seems plausible/predictive.

[@exterminatusnow1264]

I recommend Thunderf00t's vid for further insight upon this subject.

[@skyhop]

I think you're getting too complicated Koroistro. It generates less thrust than a flash light of equal power.

[@Jeppelelle]

Dont recommend Thunderf00t to anyone, he is so incredible selective in his views and opinions, any fact that opposes his preconceived agenda he simply ignored

[@screengames5307]

Jesper Andersson Which video?

[@Supergecko8]

No Scott! In this community we obey the laws of thermodynamics!!!

[@georgelionon9050]

I won't

[@RinIsArty]

Eh, laws. They're more like vauge guidelines anyway.

[@Zargabaath]

I'm a sovereign citizen of the Universe, these "laws" do not apply to me!

[@indoscience467]

Welcome to the internet. What law of thermodynamics?😉 If you knew anything, you would know how to build 45 different designs of free energy generators!

[@blahfasel2000]

Well, since conservation of momentum isn't a law of thermodynamics, I guess we are safe...

[@choibacco]

But what about the D Drive? When you place Danny 2462, a bag of legos into a capsule and let him divide by zero assembling them = instantaneous dimensional thrust folding space time?

[@anagramgamaran744]

choibacco At that point, the combination of LEGO and Kraken starts summoning LEGO Aquazone sets made of negative matter a la Hawking radiation, creating a sort of thermodynamic "pull" that ensures momentum is conserved.

[@dynamitedinosaur4601]

i mean, danny has broken the laws of physics and conquered spacetime loads of times, so... yeah.. Scott should send this to danny

[@shinnyorc2278]

But such a device would almost guarantee death by spaghettification of any onboard human!

[@camramaster]

Shinny Orc Eh. It'd be worth it.

[@LeBoomStudios]

I have a healthy enough ego to tell you that I didn't get that joke. What I can tell you though is that some of the groundworks done by Harold White for a possible future FTL drive include the White-Juday Warp Field Interferometer. One of the goals of this experiment is to find out if it is possible to bend space by means of a high voltage electric field in order to alter gravity. Even if it proves to be impossible to actually build an FTL drive like the one designed by Miguel Alcubierre, this experiment could be valueable in inventing a spacecraft drive not relying on expelling mass, but instead propelling it by bending space-time.

[@Eriiaa]

"You cannae change the laws of physics!" Scott: "Hold my beer"

[@ommexyt]

Eriiaa lol two Scotts who are miracle workers.

[@Corrodias]

laws of physics, laws of physics You cannae change the laws of physics, laws of physics, Jim!

[@thomasmcdevitt1600]

Its life jim, but not as we know it

[@chrisakaschulbus4903]

to be fair, he didn't change the laws of physics, he just exploited them ;)

[@EndWarRocks27]

1:31 "It could look like a pair of beaters swinging back and forth" "What, it doesn't look like- Oh wait, I see it now." *12 seconds later* "God damn it, now it only looks like that!"

[@debott4538]

This thing is ridiculous. Now pls go ahead and make it bigger and more powerful.

[@vakusdrake3224]

Yeah he should just connect like a dozen of these things together to multiply the thrust. Like why only use one?

[@debott4538]

The best thing is you could keep a constant thrust of 1g and thus create artificial gravity.

[@scottmanley]

Because adding more parts won't significantly increase the thrust to mass ratio.

[@vakusdrake3224]

Scott Manley Oh so you are limited by the added weight of the fuel/ore tanks

[@georgelionon9050]

However, making the arms larger should increase the "thrust", shouldn't it? Somewhere up to the KSP maximum of 2km

[@dathaniel9403]

1:50 not only does KSP ignore fuel momentum, it ignores the Pauli Exclusion Principle as well! "Literally unplayable" :-P

[@quazar5017]

Holy S***, that was already 4 years ago!? :O

[@rikschaaf]

Quazar501 We're getting old

[@quazar5017]

Rik Schaaf Back in da' olden days, when KSP costed 18$ and Minmus was a new feature! ;D

[@will3346]

Quazar501 I thought the same thing

[@GenericGerman]

Holy shit, makes you realize...

[@kestrel16c32]

Quazar501 I had that profile pic in the past lol.

[@mkd2839]

the drive hurts my eyes

[@gaalidas4836]

it hurts my brain.... but also gets me thinking... how super-sized could you make this and, given some time, could you put multiples of this drive on a single ship to produce variable levels of thrust for ultimate control?

[@ZarPof]

Yes, get the fastest transferring tanks in the game, make a mother ship. The colliding gyroscope could actually be done away with if 2 pair of non-colliding gyroscopes were used. I'm imagining an fleet of mother ships driven by this impossible engine.

[@applemauzel]

It feels magical, for some reason, I feel the motion is similar to the butterfly stroke, like it is swimming in space~

[@ZarPof]

Zephiris Yes, swimming through the Aether... that's probably the best explanation for this device. I think it's cool to have a main reaction-less drive for long flights but conventional throttle-able drives for landing and RCS for docking.

[@0cujo0]

The Manley Water Bug Propulsion System - Swim through space continuously at 1/10th of a G... :-D

[@olegtitov6679]

It would be fun to replace the solar panels with fuel cells as the main power source and estimate an ISP of a new engine.

[@zuzusuperfly8363]

The mods you're using make this game look so beautiful. It looked like a different game! The open source mod community kerbal has is such a cool way to do things. I can't imagine the game without it. So many people have such cool ideas.

[@honeybee5151]

Zuzu Superfly Play console and you'll see what it's like.

[@thesral96]

But can you make a fully automated mun landing with KOS?

[@BuggsK100RS]

Ok now there is a challenge for Scott

[@screengames5307]

Emoticons cough Mechjeb cough

[@doodlefox9837]

I did a script that launches from kerbin and lands on the mun using only simple commands, and it's in a vid I made. If you're on a decent trajectory, you only need about three lines of code to perform a safe landing, if you're landing on a flat surface :) Basically, until ship:status = "landed"{ set sasmode to "retrograde". lock throttle to (-verticalspeed/altitude)^3. } Aaaand you're done :P I like the third line, it's one of my better lines of code.

[@artemalexeev8011]

Adding plane search is not that hard too.

[@doodlefox9837]

Артем Алексеев Nah, not really :)

[@ShadowHunter120]

Thanks for immediately stating this is new, because youtube algorithims keep digging up old stuff.

[@WimsicleStranger]

ShadowHunter120 Or just use your brain and look at the date uploaded.

[@SheepInACart]

That does fail at times because youtubers often decide eed to reupload content. A classic case was the changes regarding what sponsors and self promoting you could do on a monetized video, or the decision that you couldn't show the swastika (even though its allowed for historical teaching purposes by literally all countries), both of which lead to many big channels taking down old videos and uploading an edited version.

[@LeafseasonMagbag]

I dub thee "Manley Inertial Generator". Please reply if you have a name for the insane contraption. Fun acronyms welcome.

[@ZeroJake]

Manley Ascension Device

[@buttersquids]

davis smith Dangerous Inertial Crewed Kerbal System: DICKS

[@LeafseasonMagbag]

ButterSquids Let's try and keep it in our pants, shall we?

[@buttersquids]

davis smith lmao ok ;)

[@anarchofuturist3976]

How about simply "Manley Drive"

[@ferociousfeind8538]

now make one with 100 pendulums that don't intersect, but Balance out. Then make each pendulum arm as long as you like, and enjoy landing on Jool with your 100 Boson Drives. (named after the Higgs Boson, an elusive particle that is theorized to give weight to otherwise-massless entities)

[@fluffio2976]

Remember hearing about Higgs Boson being detected at CERN's Large Hadron Collider last year

[@gajbooks]

I'd still call it the "Manley Drive", unless someone has provably used this effect before Scott's video in 2013.

[@Variety_Pack]

"...with this giant, pendulous mass swinging between his or her legs." Filed under: Quotes I will save for later.

[@Blakearmin]

This is awesome! I missed playing Kerbal years ago because I didn't have a computer that could run it but since I've started I've been hooked on your channel, going back to watch everything.

[@OptionalZero]

Okay on that 2nd iteration, as soon as you started talking about the optical effect of what you see my mind was already switching between the two version of it. What a wonderful little joy of optical illusion!

[@Cnupoc]

"giant pendulous mass swinging between HIS or HERS legs"

[@helphelpimbeingrepressed9347]

ooooh matron! XD

[@CuzicanAerospace]

"...[W]hat really matters is the mass...." I see what you did there.

[@ASilentS]

I know my pendulous mass defies the laws of physics.

[@robertkluck1510]

SilentS naughty

[@no3ironman11100]

by having negative mass.

[@robertkluck1510]

Sosuke Aizen ohhhhhhhh, sick roast

[@Zargabaath]

+Charles Walrus A sick roast in response to a sick boast. Equal and opposite reactions.

[@ryanspence5831]

negative mass then makes you have the coochie and sucks a schlong out of your partner please do not make me remember i typed this later

[@JT-hi1cs]

Here's an idea: spin a (balanced) ship violently (only with electricity). Than, suddenly eject a capsule in retrograde vector. It should deorbit without using any burning fuel.

[@ferociousfeind8538]

Jasc Tomm I once got an OKTO 5 meters off the ground with massive seperators!

[@StellarGryphon]

Scott! Make a HUGE version of this, and then put it on a large spaceship and take it to duna!

[@MidtownSkyport]

"It could look like a kind of pair of beaters swinging back and forth and bouncing off of each other" Well it didn't until you said that, but now my eyes won't see it any other way :|

[@keco185]

I think having a series with completely automated craft would be cool. A series where the crafts would control their own throttle and rotation.

[@majjinaran2999]

Nothing wades faster than the speed of tank transfer in KSP

[@teknikal_domain]

"four years ago" *looks down at date* "Hm. A video about my second favorite game uploaded on my birthday."

[@raz562]

DAMN Scotty! Back at again with broken KSP physics! KSP is so silly and broken at times, but at the same time still somewhat realistic. And that's what I love the most about KSP.

[@DtWolfwood]

use to remember you could generate thrust with just ailerons. You put 5 flaps together in a fan shape and move them up and down, you could fly without engines.

[@bush_man1541]

When you break the physics just right

[@WootmansayWOOT]

Did 3 years really fly by that fast? I remember that video.

[@SokarEntertainment]

I find this more hilarious then I'm comfortable admitting

[@whatsinanameish]

I almost feel like I just watched a Kerbal and Shenzhen I/O mashup. Tighten up that code... minimal parts... what does it cost, laddie?

[@alexlandherr]

Thank you for making this video and i learned something interesting because of your efforts, i really appreciate the time you took too produce this video.

[@NoNameAtAll2]

"When the mass is fully forvard, you want to start to transfer fuel" eh... don't you want to do transfers in in forward *part* of *circle*? so.. begin at 90 degrees and end at 270?

[@NoNameAtAll2]

For example, the vehicle that Scott used to land on Minmus has part of cycle that moves fuel *forward*!

[@scottmanley]

I once thought like this, then I tested it, and fixed it, and this is what I ended up with. Trust me on it.

[@Novastar900]

You are Scott Manley. You just got a helicopter with vertical blades into space. I will trust you on ANYTHING.

[@NoNameAtAll2]

Suedocode if the main effect comes from moves of tanks, than it is bug of Infernal Robotics the fuel move bug comes from no inertia change from fuel transfer

[@Suedocode]

Okay, here's my hypothesis. Only look at the tank's horizontal position/velocity during a "stroke" of the "engine". On the back stroke, the heavy tank starts moving backwards. Increasing the backward KE of the tank (aka work) adds an equivalent forward KE to the rest of the ship to net zero. At the 90 degree mark (half-way on the backstroke), the added KE starts changing directions to slow down the tank (forward KE from the ship is taken to cancel the reverse KE of the tank). As NoName said, this would imply that the 90 degree mark is the most optimal time to magically teleport to the mass into the forward tank. If the FULL fuel transfer was instantaneous, then I think he'd be correct. I believe the issue, however, is that the fuel transfer takes some time. The longer it takes for fuel to transfer into the empty tank, the more cancellation (which is the correct thing that _should_ be happening) starts happening and your "drive" loses effectiveness (it adds the same KE to the ship, but it's just heavier because there's redundant fuel). You want the tank to be empty at 90, and as full as possible up until that point. I hypothesize that the optimal spin drive would be one that uses the full time of 0-90 pupping fuel forward, which means you should start pumping at 0 as Scott observed.

[@fanjerry8100]

Scott can you show off the kraken drive once? The one you build with wobbling landing gears. I think you never showed off that kind of propulsion on your channel.

[@WymanandBrad]

Fan Jerry sounds cool

[@kermanguy1877]

So, essentially, pulling on your own shoelaces to fly?

[@Malfunct1onM1ke]

Scott, I have a feeling that you came up with this Idea by playing Shenzhen I/O :)

[@TruKave]

MalfunctionM1Ke He did the original video too long ago

[@Malfunct1onM1ke]

Yeah I saw the video back then, i meant to go back to the design and code it into a practical fashion :)

[@generic_name2009]

Now just to build a reliable Kraken Drive. Danny! Where are you?

[@olivermccourty]

Wow. TEACH ME EVERYTHING YOU KNOW. Seriously.

[@Prophes0r]

If I remember right, this is similar to how a certain type of impulse engine from Star Trek is supposed to work. Basically, A cylinder with a high mass is spun up to some fraction of light speed (dropping it's mass). Then the cylinder (at lower mass) is moved forward. The cylinder is then slowed down (raising it's mass again) and then pushed backwards to provide thrust.

[@Ideabot_69]

Row row row your spaceship Gently through the vacuum Merrily Merrily Merrily Life is just a wonky game

[@DigGil3]

If I understand this properly, it works as if the the spacecraft was swimming breaststroke through magic ether tied to the fuel/ore's mass.

[@grumpylimey4539]

Phased Matter Swirling Loads (PMSL) Drive

[@blackaddergaming8191]

I have a giant pendulous mass swinging between my legs...

[@robinvansteenbergen1472]

You may be able to upgrade this by slapping more of those drive pendulums together for more power and more control, if you're adventurous, you could make wheels with more spokes which transfer the fuel in a more regular fashion for a smoother ride. Reducing the amount of tank groups involved in the fuel transfer as well as the rotation rate would allow you to limit the drive's thrust. I believe kOS can read the setting for your throttle control, so you have the ingredients for a reactionless drive right here. That is until the KSP developers fix the conservation of momentum, but I believe that is a Unity bug.

[@wolfaddict]

"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."

[@AmazingRando303]

I want to see variable thrust by using some IR to increase the arm of the moment on the fly (not KOS controlled, but rather pistons bound to shift and ctrl to work like regular throttle. Being able to throttle between 0.05 and 0.2G would be a nice useful landing range. I suppose you could stack many pistons which act in concert and alter the length even more (do IR pistons have a max extension length?). This is good stuff!

[@VeneficusCubes]

No, I think the proper name for engine Scott build would be gravity paddle. Because it is how it works, It push mass forwards Without loss of momentum (paddle above water), when moves mass backwards With gain of momentum (paddle in water).

[@GamenRyder]

I would love a series of you doing KOS stuff!

[@ExaltedDuck]

FWIW there are actual situations in which the Pauli exclusion principle can be broken so the overlaid arms aren't quite as big an exception from the laws of physics.

[@aydenthompson703]

Scott Manley playing ksp really reminds you that impossible is just a word.

[@aronthomas9594]

Where's Galileo Conquest? Has the last video not got enough views?

[@sandercohen5543]

Transfer rate is tied to the capacity of the storage, so you could add a few 0’s to that value in the data file for the ore container for some rediculous acceleration.

[@TG626]

"large pendulous mass swinging between their legs." - Scott Manly

[@joman2334]

Hey,we need some more Galileo conquest!

[@MrVeps1]

Imagine sitting in a capsule with the acceleration oscillating jerkily between 0 and 0.1g from LEO to Lunar orbit, or something equally silly... As it's a "reactionless thruster", I assume one would accelerate just about the whole way, simply turning the craft around at some point to get captured. That's days of getting lightly bounced as you try to fall asleep, knowing that if physics start working normally, you're marooned in space. Kerbals are a brave sort, hardier by far than mere humans.

[@mezza205]

inventive contraption clearly of the high spec design and logical thinking we come to expect from our little kerbal friends.

[@K_GHOST225]

Perhaps a second set of code that takes the amount of fuel in one tank, and when transferring it to another tank, generates that fuel and simply depletes the other tank, and instantly transfers, or does so with a timer so that it is somewhat realistic, and possibly a way to change part mass to prevent issues there? I feel like that wouldn't be too hard to actually code.

[@TomTheSaintsGuy]

Some say NASA saw this and are planning an intergalactic Mississippi paddle-steamer.

[@Ryaurezh]

Breaking the Laws of Physics... FOR SCIENCE!!!

[@ejulson1]

It's a space jellyfish! So cool!

[@myuphrid]

Based on the apparent action of the rotors, you should definitely call this the "Charleston Drive".

[@thismachinehugs8659]

Space helicopter.

[@chistinelane]

It's grabbing space pulling itself along

[@RAFMnBgaming]

Imagine if you were to make this into a long range torpedo: Small but efficient acceleration and the ability to mangle up anything that gets in your way. it's a self propelled melee warhead.

[@michaels851]

It is possible to change that variable and speed up transfer, but it would not be a mod like most others. I have done this with a few other games, haven't done it with kerbal space program before. I will give it a shot when I get a chance. This technique would only work on a single ksp version at a time, 1 version of this mod would never work on a different version of ksp than what it was intended for. I will be doing it with ksp v1.2.2.1622

[@commissarmartin]

So.... I guess this is effectively a kerbal paddle steamer

[@jkievlan]

This is awesome and you have too much time on your hands, sir.

[@Corrodias]

I rather expected, based on some of your previous rocket videos, that you'd try a horrifying assembly of about 50 of these. I'm a bit disappointed it didn't end with that.

[@flarerik]

You know what they say: Do the impossible, see the invisible, row row fight the power.

[@jef_3006]

This is my new favorite video, this is awesome

[@KertaDrake]

//EMDRIVE print "I see what you did there!"

[@ZombieGunslingr]

every time I see your intro I always here little kids yelling yay rockets

[@haoweishi5538]

This ideas for this drive is actually real

[@ENCHANTMEN_]

Maybe to increase the transfer rate, you could use a whole bunch of tiny fuel tanks. Their total amount of fuel is small, so they'd transfer very quickly, and by having loads of them, you'd be transferring a lot of fuel at once.

[@lampman1337]

so that's how the EM drive works...

[@unclesam6869]

"The pilot does have an interesting view of proceedings incidentally, with this giant pendulous mass swinging between his or her legs" XD

[@ScruffyNZ.]

now to make a craft that can make the entire trip using only these...

[@JoXDDFive]

LET THE GYROSCOPE DRIVE RACES.... BEGIN!

[@dekster193]

"giant pendulous mass swinging between his legs" haha sounds about right

[@LetumComplexo]

So it's a perpetual motion machine.

[@Witnaaay]

You should built one with massive long arms - get the most momentum possible out of it.

[@JettQuasar]

I made a Kraken drive that basically gave you nearly unlimited fuel with almost no mass. It worked in V1.0.5 but they put a fix in the latest version of the game and it doesn't work any more... Doh!

[@Snowstrider0001]

I'd love to see if you could build one using TAC fuel balancer

[@Eric_D_6]

Having never bothered to even look at any info for KOS I have to imagine there is a way to check throttle position and tie your script to that so it can be controlled easier.

[@pered5]

This thing is obviously rowing on the quantum vacuum virtual particle field.

[@66thething]

I would like to see you make a version of this that can escape Eve as a challenge.

[@pjousma]

Momentum Drive, this is awesome!

[@dylan7129]

Enough with the ferris wheel version. Lets see the shake weight version! Nice job.

[@Izunundara]

obviously it's not pushing itself along through the universe, it's pulling the universe around it

[@deathhog]

Hey Scott, if you want another "physics simulator" with absurdly exploitable physics, there's a game in alpha testing called From The Depths. Kind of fun, but I think you might appreciate the questionable aerodynamics model.

[@bluemoon539]

Wouldn't suprise me if we found/invented some material that changes mass at our command/with electrical charge, etc, someday. A gyro-like spacecraft would then become possibly, although quite jerky and prone to metal fatigue etc. lol.

[@AuntyProton]

You could call it the EtherStrider... like a waterstrider bug for space.

[@XavierXonora]

I want to see a drive like this take off from kerbin haha

[@zuthalsoraniz6764]

One way to improve this might be putting multiple ore tanks on each arm end. That way, with, say, four tanks per arm end, you could have four transfers per arm going in parallel, and thus get four times the transfer rate, right?