Exploring Doom's Nuclear Plant Level on Many Consoles

[@ThommyofThenn]

comment to express my desire of having more videos in this style. I still like the more random stuff but these version/build comparisons are really neat.

[@MyScorpion42]

oooo a second episode, I like where this is going

[@ThatNukemGuy]

Indeed! At the minute I'm testing the waters and seeing if people want to see more of this.

[@ThommyofThenn]

Yea in the past it seemed like if you wanted to see different versions of maps, you had to queue up a complete walkthrough of the version. I really appreciate these videos on the channel that break it down on a level by level basis. It just streamlines the process of comparing versions in a more meaningful way. It gives you direct contrast

[@ThommyofThenn]

​@@ThatNukemGuyyes

[@MXOY99]

I definitely want to see more.

[@lonca_47]

@@ThatNukemGuyI do! I do!

[@friezusplays2286]

PS1 Doom is a whole other experience. I played most versions of the game back in the 90s, my dad collected game systems back then, my favourite were the Mac versions which were the same as the DOS and Windows from what I remember. But the first time I booted up Doom on the PS1 I was not expecting it to be the way it is. Truly amazing just how a few changes with the lighting, the ost and monster sound effects basically turned an action packed game into a pretty close to terrifying experience. Level 4, the song used in that always stuck with me for how spooky it sounded. When I play that version of the game I find myself playing more cautiously instead of running and gunning as much.

[@sealboy1211]

I just wish it didn’t use the stripped down jaguar levels.

[@lancebaylis3169]

The way the PlayStation renders it's graphics helps a bit, too. Everything is a little more claustrophobic feeling, darker, the textures feel 'chunkier' somehow. Turns the whole thing into a totally different experience.

[@generalesdeath5836]

The idea of DOOMguy having Health, Armor, AND Shield is interesting to me. I would honestly like to see that, even if it involved some rebalancing.

[@PartyCrasher04]

@@guyg.8529lool

[@eljaminlatour6633]

The items in the alpha build of the game including: skull chest, unholy bible, demonic dagger, and evil scepter, are meant to be treasures to collect points similar to Wolfenstein 3D's cross, chalice, chest, and crown. The "items" section in the HUD is inspired by the SNES port of Wolfenstein 3D. Additionally, the number counter in the bottom right corner of the HUD face is, too, inspired by Wolf 3D's SNES port. The 1-UP in the game was going to be the Soulsphere, which gives you full health, armor, and an extra life, functioning kind of like a mini-megasphere and 1-UP at the same time. In the original Wolfenstein 3D for MS-DOS, 1-UPs give you full health, a bundle of ammo, and an extra life.

[@lancebaylis3169]

Another great comparison video, mate. Especially cool including the early versions of it too. Nuclear Plant is probably the John Romero map par execellance. If you look at his list of 'design rules' for making a Doom level, E1M2 demonstrates nearly all of them better than any other.

[@chaser1254]

I can watch every level of this game like that. Great idea, Mate!

[@Amig186]

Gotta say that Saturn version of E1M2 has very atmospheric music

[@eightcoins4401]

it uses the same music as PSX Doom, just assigned to different maps for some reason

[@ryans5615]

I would like to see more, but I don't know about seeing every level for every port I wouldn't mind seeing some of the more memorable levels, but I don't know about such a thorough presentation for each and every single level across Doom 1, 2, Ultimate, Plutonia, etc.

[@eightcoins4401]

Tbf, theres not very much to talk about from Final and Ultimate. Only half the levels of Ultimate made it to PSX Doom. Only 1/4 of the levels from TNT and Plutonia each made it to PSX Final Doom. Even though its called *Final Doom* half of the cd-rom is maps from the Master Levels compilation. Every pc port after afaik all the EP4 and Final Doom levels when avaible were identical to PC.

[@Mtlbro6]

Best music = 3DO I mean it's no contest and it's hilarious too.

[@eightcoins4401]

I dislike what they did with the synths on some tracks personally. Some of those sounds are too cheesy in the 3do version while the general midi synth is actually quite atmospheric in the pc version. On the Hunt is one of the worst offenders at that. Or Untitled where it sounds like the brass from the 60s Batman tv show.

[@Zellio2011]

The entirety of the 32x soundtrack needs to be listened to. It needs to be the theme for Taco bell. Some of it is so farty it's hilarious. Some songs sound like things are dropping into toilet bowls.....

[@eightcoins4401]

The Genesis literally has the same soundchip as sound cards of the time. But the composers didnt wanna bother so just 1:1 converted the pc midis in G.E.M.S.

[@jensrobot]

that "beep-beep-beep-beep" made me lose it lmao

[@introvertgamer5503]

What i find interesting about this map on different versions is how they all deal with the big room near the end. Definitely surprised me to see the 3do version actually handle it not too badly compared to how it did elsewhere.

[@AlyxxTheRat]

3DO Doom just doesn't do stairs. XD

[@jensrobot]

Loving this content! Keep in mind some emulators doesnt actual emulate the original speed it ran at. I think the saturn does keep all the chuggy goodnes hehe. Pretty sure the 32x didnt run half this good, but it's important to remember when you talk about each versions performance!

[@AlyxxTheRat]

The fact you started and kept ignoring the chainsaw in the secret room has me concerned what that chainsaw did to you and your family.

[@thatradiogeek]

this map has my favorite Doom track

[@MyScorpion42]

I find at amusing how much you deride the SNES version's performance just after showing off the Saturn version.

[@ThatNukemGuy]

They're both objectively bad experiences 😂

[@eightcoins4401]

@@ThatNukemGuy I'd personally defend SNES over Saturn any day. The SNES atleast has an excuse for its low resolution and poor performance.

[@MunkiZee]

I used to play a lot of DOS Doom and Doom II, kept me going for years. I didn't know it was available for XBOX or PS3

[@FortunateSon999]

It's interesting to see how even late in to development, we still hadn't quite seen the innovation that Doom would become famous for, with it still looking very much like a Score based FPS in the vein of Wolfenstein.

[@ThommyofThenn]

As a retrogamer, if the hud does not cover at least 2/3rds of the screen, i cannot play 5:00 i actually kinda like this version of the SG.(or some kind of semiauto rifle in place of the pistol?) Dont get me wrong, the wooden furniture of the final version is classic and essential to the vibe of the game, but this all black version has a more harsh, modernised look

[@SuperLuigiSixty4]

As a big fan of Doom 64, I really gotta try PS1 Doom sometime. That lighting and those sound effects are so good. I'd love it to get the Kex treatment like 64 did.

[@MyScorpion42]

Same, the fact that the n64 version of quake was added for its anniversary makes me hopeful

[@DoggoneNexus]

24:07 "Changing weapons in this version is a bit of a nightmare" Odd to hear that, because when playing on real hardware, the Jaguar version is notable for having the easiest weapon selection thanks to its old-school number pad.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

2:16 Looks to me like what would become the Chainsaw area.

[@azereptile9108]

My first doom port was ps1, and man, this music is so strange and scary and never forget of my mind. So i always see doom like a horror and desolate game since that, as if the doomguy descends into madness and lonelyness as the game progresses

[@BearlyGamer]

SNES DOOM was my first taste of DOOM. I was about 6 years old, wayyyyy too young to be playing it, and thought it was awesome. It's funny and nostalgic to go back and watch videos like this and see how bad it looks lol. But on a CRT TV in the mid-90's, it was pretty great for the time

[@eightcoins4401]

The fact it even manages to be minimally playable on the SNES is impressive initself. Especially with it having almost 1:1 the pc levels and retaining the osses.

[@AlyxxTheRat]

Yeah I agree the 2024 console version by Nightdive is as good as it will get on consoles. On PC you obviously have a lot of source ports to choose from so that's a whole other kettle. But on console, I much prefer the 2024 version above all. The SNES version wins on ambition and impression though. What a fascinating port.

[@MinisterofDOOM]

The 32x version is actually the first version of DOOM I ever played. Still have it. The flatulent music never sounded good, even in the 90s through a cheap mono TV speaker.

[@eightcoins4401]

Ill share a nugget of trivia with you: The composers for the 32 ox version were lazy, incompetent or both. They assigned every single sound to the same channel of very simple 2 op FM bass. A 2 op fm channel is very simple and was used by some japan only Famicom and Master System games. Though on those consoles it was added ontop of the classic pure squarewave channels. The Mega Drive actually has a very similair soundchip to most soundcards of the time, since they were derived form it. The original version of Doom was composed with the Soundblaster 2.0 in mind. The Soundblaster is actually inferior to the Mega Drive chip in some ways, it only allows 4 concurrent channels while the MegaDrive Soundchip allows 6 concurrent channels. Why did the composers only use a 2 op fm bass? Because it is the placeholder channel in G.E.M.S. An utility software for composers created by Sega. If you 1:1 convert a midi to MegaDrive soundfont in it without any reassignment or rearrangement, every single sound gets assigned to the 2 op FM bass. If you wonder why its 2 OP FM bass as placeholder: Its the simplest FM sound you can create and its very hard to make it sound unpleasant. People actually managed to make really faithful - some argue even better- renditions of the music on megadrive soundchip simulators in modern times. Look up E1M1 MegaDrive cover by silverRiff.

[@normanred9212]

The 360 versions of Doom, Doom 2, and Duke Nukem were fantastic AND you could play coop

[@neoxnet]

The simple answer why there are slow lifts in the alpha versions is because they were obsessed with OH&S. Can’t have Doomguy hurting himself on pesky lifts now.

[@Fiendzy]

Holy Christ that compression with the Saturn version is… unfortunate. If Saturn port had as much passion / effort as the games run on the slave driver engine… I’d quake 1 / power slave. It could have been a great port. Never mind Saturn power slave / quake had the ability to render dynamic lights

[@lancebaylis3169]

The original port was apparently optimized in a new renderer specifically for the Saturn, but ID software's John Carmack didn't like how it looked, so they subbed back in the original at the eleventh hour on his insistence. To his credit, several decades later Carmack admitted he shouldn't have used his veto, and apologised on Twitter to the guy who did the Saturn port, saying it was absolutely Carmack's fault it turned out how it did. Which was magnanimous of him. :)

[@eightcoins4401]

​@@lancebaylis3169 I feel like it still wouldn't have turned out well. The Saturn is way weaker in everything than the PSX. It would have been slightly better and less laggy I guess, but itd still be an inferior version of the PSX port.

[@lonca_47]

What absolute psychopath did the music for Sega 32x and thought adding those 4 notes was a good idea 😭😭

[@normanred9212]

It depends on what version of Sega you had, the Genesis and Megadrive both had different soundcards and you will notice berween the two that the megadrive sometimes was slower and had certain beeps MUCH louder than they needed to be

[@eightcoins4401]

Actually no one "did" the music. Theres no composing or rearranging. They just threw the pc midis into G.E.M.S. Its why it sounds like literal diarhea. Just for reference: The megadrive literally uses nearly the same soundchip as soundblaster soundcards to the time. Theres people that make really good renditions of doom music with megadrive simulation synths nowadays.

[@lonca_47]

@@eightcoins4401 I see, literally just could never hear that sound in the original song, at least aside from the intro. Much less obvious in the original thank goodness.

[@lonca_47]

⁠@@eightcoins4401I hate how it translates from that nice wood block kind of sound to the most annoying droning beep 😭

[@philadams9254]

Again, the PS1 Doom is superior IMO. It would be good to get some sort of remaster of it, where everything is kept the same, but the resolution is increased a bit as the blockyness is the only thing that let it down back in the day. I don't even care that there are no Archviles etc.

[@eightcoins4401]

Out of the oldschool console ports it is objectively the best one. Though it also had a way easier time since it was WAY more powerful than the other consoles Doom was ported to. It kinda sucks to have the Jaguar Levelset at times, but atleast you have the 2 original bosses and no insane lag. Also honestly sometime its nice to have the Jaguar levels. Some maps i dread on pc are only half as long in the jaguar levelset. Though at the same time i wonder what the problem with Archviles was. They somehow managed to make them work on the *GBA* Port after all.

[@yusukeelric]

im sure the pocket witt 5 armor wasn't in the original 1.1 version of doom. You should check out the different PC versions of the same maps, they changed a fair bit from 1.0 to 1.666

[@TGAProMKM]

it's just me or the nuclear plant leve(ElM2) on atari jaguar looks somewhat challenging compared to it's previous versions...

[@eightcoins4401]

IDK about how challenging some of the changed levels are, but honestly the smaller jaguar levels improved some maps that are pretty dreadful in the og pc game.

[@AbsoluteAcid2112]

What midis were used in your vid?

[@miesvaillanykyisyytta3252]

What do you mean by the Saturn being the saddest level version?

[@ThatNukemGuy]

It's got the darkness of the PS1 but lacks the PS1 coloured lighting. It ends up looking like a darker version of the Jaguar levels

[@miesvaillanykyisyytta3252]

@@ThatNukemGuy Why does it look like Jaguar if it's a replica of the PS? Jaguar has way worse graphics. Slightly better than the SNES but Saturn and PSX look the same most of the time.

[@eightcoins4401]

@@miesvaillanykyisyytta3252 What he means is that most of Doom 1 in PSX Doom uses the "reduced" jaguar Level Set. Less architectural detail in maps. Multiple maps also had a few sections removed. Though it improves a few levels that are dreadful on pc. Jaguar E3M1 is actually a fully original level and superior to the PC rendition.

[@miesvaillanykyisyytta3252]

@@eightcoins4401 Thanks. Do you know if there is a specific comparison video of the changed Jaguar levels?

[@Soulfly415]

Another one of these boring videos, eh? You show the original PC level and then 10 exact same copies of the Jaguar version of the level that appeared on most other 90's consoles, and then finish with the xbox era, where it's the original PC level again. What's the point? Just show the 3 versions of the level, the PC version, the SNES version and the Jaguar version, and i guess the pre-release version (i see you have it in the thumbnail) and that's it, there aren't any other versions. No one cares about the colored lighting of the PS1 version, when it's the same as the Jaguar. You got that, genius? Stop wasting everyone's time.

[@SebTheSamMarten]

Relax grandpa, it's time to take your medicine. Seriously, there was only maybe two versions that were actually exact copies of each other with no changes. The different lighting that engines are capable of rendering is still interesting to see what developers could and couldn't get away with. If it bothered you THAT MUCH then maybe you should have seen it was an hour and a half long video and assumed it was going to be more than a slideshow of 3 versions of the level and saved not only your own time, but also everyone else's who has to see this unnecessary and vitriolic comment on an otherwise fine video. At the very least you can put the video on 1.25x or 1.5x speed if it really matters that much to you. Seriously, unless your criticism can be constructive and worded maturely, just don't bother commenting in the first place. Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to watch the video.

[@ThatNukemGuy]

Ultimately it's about choice.and letting people choose the experience they want through the video. The metrics on the video show me people like this kind of video more, I shall continue to do it this way. Your feedback is appreciated and I'm sorry my videos aren't to your liking.

[@eightcoins4401]

Is your name first name No one, last name everyone? Because I personally do find the minor differences very interesting.

[@RelKier_is_jdude]

2:14 this is future chainsaw area!

[@thesmilingman7576]

1:16:46 I don't