Exploring the BIGGEST PROBLEMS in EVERY Dragon Ball Z Saga

[@gamewithadam7235]

Farmer power level 5 was when he was resting, not when he was ready to battle.

[@zach9962]

😂

[@jahjoeka]

That's the thing i never understood. They take their power levels when they're resting and write it off then surprised when they're ready to fight. So the initial reading is always trash so why do it.

[@zach9962]

@@jahjoeka in dbz freeza saga i noticed that most fighters on namek didn't really "power up" like people from Earth did. Their power increase was usually from a transformation. I think hiding your power level was something the heroes from earth knew how to do thanks to Roshi. They were also able to inherently sense "ki", something vegita didn't know was even possible. I don't think many fighters knew ki was a thing and typically didn't "power up". Like gohan and Broly inherently had access to an enormous amount of ki they only used when angry

[@zach9962]

@@jahjoeka but I could be wrong. hope that helps

[@jahjoeka]

@@zach9962 so that's like saying Vegeta walks around fully powered? And earthlings can't be the only one to powder up, im sure scouters been around for 100s of years and still have a fatal flaw.

[@crestofhonor2349]

Power levels ended up doing a lot of harm. There's a reason why both GT and Super mostly end up dropping power levels because scaling characters with number so high is pointless

[@captainsmackyou302]

Also: in a world where the writers must consistently increase the stakes of the batle (region, country, planet, universe, multiverese, etc), giving them precise power levels keeps reminding the viewer of how far they've departed , and it hurts the suspension of disbelief. Having Frieza, Cell, and Buu to all be world-ending threats was enjoyable enough, without trying to quantify them with power levels.

[@Cephus1-n5w]

How did it do harm ?

[@paraic9163]

Z dropped them too after Frieza..

[@freashswagg1]

Naw

[@Cephus1-n5w]

@@vitaliisivak4075 he was talking about og db like it was Naruto or something they did not pull up to fights with special techniques and stopping the main bad guy they beat the enemy by being stronger, if your stronger in og db u beat up who you fight in

[@franzgriffle6063]

Worst mistake is not letting Krillin be the GOAT more often. Those Distructo disks should have lead to a lot more Mayhem lol

[@Travis371]

Tien > Krillin

[@kurtcometa4818]

@@Travis371 Krillin>>>>Tien

[@Travis371]

@@kurtcometa4818 In your dreams. Tien has more potential than Krillin.

[@kurtcometa4818]

@@Travis371 and Krillin unlocked his hidden potential already during the namek saga and Tien hasn't sooo Krillin>>>>Tien boi go cry

[@zach9962]

Tien unlocked his hidden potential at ur moms house

[@kindasomeviews]

My main things with DBZ is how 90% of the cast (mostly non-Saiyans) get shafted all cuz they can't get Zenkai boosts, which easily lead to characters like Uub & Piccolo being wasted, Vegeta losing most of his battles despite being an "Elite" Saiyan, Gohan and Goten not measuring up to Goku (despite their potentials being higher than his) due to lack of training, and how a ton of the time Goku has to carry for Everyone for main threats. It all robs many characters of deserved moments after all the hard work they put in, and cucks characters built up/implied to be incredibly strong (SUPREME KAI)

[@gangstagummybear3432]

Goku didn't carry squat with his only 1 true win

[@kindasomeviews]

@@gangstagummybear3432 whatever time you're taking about. He beat, Nappa, Vegeta (indirectly with his small Spirit Bomb), Frieza, Broly, Dr Wheelo, Kid Buu, Turles, need i go on?

[@alexzero3736]

​@@gangstagummybear3432 Goku literally does all the job. Any other character is just half-time entertainment. They are here to make story longer than "New villain arrived. Hero came and beat him".

[@petiteexplication6249]

My biggesr problem with dragon ball super is them not having gotenks in the tournament against that fusion girl

[@ihateeveryone8161]

Supereme Kai wasn't really hyped to be strong, Piccolo backed down out of respect, neither Vegeta nor Goku considered him a threat, Goku was ready to put the Kai down for getting between them fighting, and based on him backing down instantly I would assume Shin didn't like his chances.

[@mrlefern4167]

The biggest problem with dragonball in general is that dying just has no consequences. That totally bothers me.

[@tigeryumyums9407]

This really annoyed me about the series. There was no weight felt when loss happened.

[@FlappyCat-ef6oq]

I feel like this doesn’t really apply to DBZ, but maybe Super.

[@kingofcomments1917]

@@FlappyCat-ef6oqwym ? Goku died twice lol . Krillin died twice , vegeta died , every side character died in the buu sage and got brought back . Chiaotsu kept dying . That’s a lot of death for everybody to get revived 😂😂

[@kingofcomments1917]

@@tigeryumyums9407exactly. I don’t want to make this about other anime’s but I’ll say even with plot armor . The other big anime’s does take death more seriously and that’s what usually makes them great

[@FlappyCat-ef6oq]

@@kingofcomments1917 If I wanted I could sit here and go through every death in the series and explain how their death meaningfully changed the tone of the series. Krillins first death and Picollos first death for example meaningfully changed the tone of the story. Yes characters could be brought back, but it always involved the main characters going through hellish ordeals to do so. For a large portion of DBZ, (almost the entire Namek saga and almost the entire Cell Saga) the earth dragon balls aren't even active. Then in the Buu saga the entire world is destroyed along with the earth dragonballs, and Buu follows Goku and Vegeta into the other world to kill them there. Yes DBZ is a more lighthearted series its not like chainsaw man or something, but in terms of how death affects the stakes of the story its better off than a show where characters just don't die at all such as One Piece.

[@alessiospurio]

Cell regenerating after Goku's sacrifice was essential to Gohan: without that, he would have lived the rest of his life feeling guilty about his father. I don't think that's an issue at all! The only problem I have with it is that Cell's head was destroyed by Goku with the warp kamehameha, so it doesn't make sense that he says "My head can not be destroyed".

[@hectortroncoso202]

what he said was that he had a little mass on his head, and if his head was destroyed he would have died, and yes, hdf did cell survived goku's insta Kamehameha, cause no, its not piccolo's cells, piccolo said he can only regenerate if his head is not destroyed

[@blessedxxiii8908]

cells whole body is made up of cells doesn't matter if you take out his head he'll always come back thanks to frieza and piccolos genes terrifying combo unless you wipe out every single cell in his body just like son gohan did

[@rexyjp1237]

​@@blessedxxiii8908im made out of humans.

[@BabyGirlTiny]

Essential to gohan doesn’t mean essential to the story

[@TheFatestPat]

I think the reason Toriyama put in power levels was to show how pointless they are. How does one assign a number to their power as a fighter? It was the villains who were all obsessed with who's number was higher. Goku didn't gave a crap about any numbers, he just went in there and fought. Sure it was an easy and kind of a lame way to show off how strong an opponent was, but the point was to build tension and make you think the weaker person had no chance. We're the one's who take the power level stuff way too seriously. If anything, Toriyama just exposed how shallow we all are when it comes to fight expectations.

[@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701]

I disagree... Even Goku had to rely on Power Levels through DBZ hence his INSANE Unrealistic and BUSTED ×Gravity Training sessions.

[@pt5728]

@@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701yh this guy was trying to sound good but powerlevels mattered. However power levels did come with their own problems and I don’t think toriyama thought about them or he wouldn’t have had then go so high so quickly. Went from thousands to hundreds of millions in 2 arc, just way too quick, could’ve kept the power the same but the number that represented that power should’ve been lower.

[@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701]

@@pt5728 I totally agree

[@zach9962]

Daaaaaaaaaamn 😂

[@N.i.E.M.O]

I think the real reason numerical power levels stopped being presented is simply because Toriyama didn't feel like putting the effort into actually calculating how strong everyone should be going forward, which gave him more room to just make up whatever he wanted without having to actually make sense. It's not like 'power levels' actually stopped existing - the stronger guy still always wins 99% of the time, and the main goal of every arc is to simply 'become more powerful'. The only that was dropped was actually giving us the raw numbers.

[@SafirLamkhantar]

I read something about the Buu saga that changed my outlook about it. The Buu Saga is about introducing a lot of OP things: a new transformation, fusions, god unlocked potential... all of that fails, the apocalypse actually happens. What wins ultimately? Cooperation. The Genkidama is not Goku's win, it's everyone else's through him. Seems obvious when written, but still cool. It's only hindered by all Genkidama winning-moves that we saw in DBZ movies... but in the canon, it was only tried twice before, and never even succeeded!

[@youthfulgreenbeast3851]

I agree with all of these except for Cell coming back. I didnt think it diminished Gokus death at all because he still died saving everyone and it gave a great final moment of Goku and Gohan. The beam struggle is my favorite part of the cell saga

[@joaotavares078]

Right, but then cell could have done the same move of auto destruction and game over for the z fighters

[@youthfulgreenbeast3851]

@joaotavares078 that was a huge risk to himself. He said his survival of that was nothing but luck. Also he was pretty confident that he could beat Gohan this time around after his Zenkai boost. Cell loves fighting and he loves a challenge. It's the whole reason he started the Cell games in the first place. He only self destructed because he couldn't see any other way to win. If the only goal was to kill everyone he could have just destroyed the planet a long time ago

[@3headedsnake388]

For a Gohan fanboy like me it puts the exclamation mark on the fact that Gohan was so much stronger than Cell. Love that saga for being so radically different for its time

[@thenerdfulspirit]

I thought it was messed up to be honest. And this was just repeating in the Buu saga . Also: why is Gohan so battle hungry in it? Seems out of character or as if they couldn't decide on which direction he should take

[@youthfulgreenbeast3851]

@thenerdfulspirit he was battle hungry in the Cell saga because he was in a state of rage and lost sight of himself. He wanted to make Cell suffer. The buu saga he should have learned his lesson by then, it was dumb that he kept taunting buu and not finishing him off when he was capable of doing so and had no reason not to

[@animangafan4329]

For me, the biggest issue in Dragon Ball was that it wasn't a generational story. I mean think about it. OG Dragon Ball gave us the adventures of Son Goku as a boy. Then Z came along and showed us his life as a man. At the same time, I felt Gohan should've played a larger role in the Androids and Buu Sagas. Finally, we could've gotten a sequel series in GT/Super that focused on the adventures of Goten, Trunks, and Pan.

[@paraic9163]

Wasn't Gohan the hero of the Cell Saga?

[@animangafan4329]

@@paraic9163 Yes, but I felt the buildup for it in the Cell Saga could've been better.

[@gangstagummybear3432]

Actually Gohan was still the biggest point in the buu arc other than getting abandoned at the end of the buu arc

[@romart03]

@@animangafan4329 the build up to Gohan was just fine, no issues for me

[@AD-ur1fk]

Gohan was made the main character after the cell saga but fans complained so they brought goku back and kept him the main character until today . Also fans wouldn’t accept goten, trunks and pan becoming the main characters

[@SpectreStatus]

My main problem with Dragon Ball is that it locked itself into a senseless loop of gaining more power and more forms. I feel the fever-pitch was Cell, a villain comprised of virtually every fighter Goku had faced so far. After 'perfection' was defeated by Goku's posterity however, a theme foreshadowed since the beginning of Z, Goku's role was clearly exhausted, and the series largely became stale as a senseless contest of new transformations, a problem carried on into Super. The series should have been readapted after Cell into a different genre to keep things fresh, just as Z changed from Ball.

[@Darmani2MB]

Toei tried to do that in GT, going back to adventure and comedy, but the audience didn't like it and they had to go back to new transformations, villains of the month arcs and 10-episodes fights

[@necrotafeio]

@@Darmani2MB i think it as a good idea ith a failed execution, e can only hope daima gets it right

[@mosthated.e.2422]

There doing that now with daima

[@SoulTwinky]

I think the biggest problem in the Buu Saga was bringing Buu back after Vegta's sacrifice. If he didn't come back, then Goku would've stayed dead, and Vegeta would've had an amazing redemption and character arc.

[@lokidoozer9116]

Death having no meaning due to the Dragon Balls is my biggest issue, followed by injures instantly getting healed by green beans. They should have stayed with the one time resurrection per person IMO.

[@Jamar84]

For me the biggest problem with the buu saga was that they couldn’t decide which version of the antagonist they wanted to go with. Buu went through like 6 different forms and then just ended up being some non-verbal child version?? 🤨

[@freashswagg1]

It was fine

[@N.i.E.M.O]

Not to mention Buu's whole 'gimmick' just seemed like a retread of Cell, but now he can absorb 'everyone' and his regeneration is better. Unfortunately he also had a far less interesting personality ("Im dumb and I like candy") and less interesting (or even nonexistent) motivations. I honestly found Evil Buu (the gray one) to be the most interesting, despite (or maybe because of) his extremely limited screen time. A shame Toriyama seemingly forgot he existed after Fat Buu gets ripped out of Super Buu, as for som unknown reason, he becomes 'Kid Buu', which is the lamest form of all (imo), especially for a final, ultimate villain for the entire DBZ series, whose previous villains were legendary. I still think Dabura would have had more potential and more interesting as a final villain, but he got subbed hard. Just like someone like King Cold, I wonder why Toriyama even bothered to create him at all.

[@jonathansmall1]

​@N.i.E.M.O Kidd Buu is his original form before he absorbed the South Supreme Kai & The Grand Supreme Kai millions of years ago. He took on the appearance and the personalities of the fallen Supreme Kais he absorbed.

[@SpectreStatus]

@@Jamar84 It's like Toriyama couldn't decide who he wanted to end the series with, and then he was like dog-gone it I'll just end it with Goku. 😒

[@neo-filthyfrank1347]

@@N.i.E.M.O Cell had the worst personality of them all. Android arc is the worst thing toriyama ever wrote.

[@GeteMachine]

Though I disagree with the Cell arc not ending when Goku dying as a flaw, because the argument made there could be applied to Goku coming back after he sacrificed himself to kill Raditz. And, in the Cell arc, Gohan wouldn't have gotten redemption if Goku took Cell away and it ended there, because he only did it when Gohan was about to lose. It would be the same scenario of Goku killing Kid Buu himself, even though other characters were set up to do it. It would have been the same outcome that the complaint about the Buu arc here, is.

[@karlluigi1987]

One of the biggest problem in Dragon Ball Z is that the more the story progress, the more the dragon balls became irrelevant to the plot, the show is called Dragon Ball, not Goku and the Saiyans

[@The_FamousGuy19]

I swear to God your the literally the Black Version of Carthu’s Dojo lmao 😂

[@alatusedits]

Racist

[@idktaxtyyt]

@@alatuseditshow??

[@grimacethemeance7973]

I wouldn't say racist, its like calling someone a Mexican Einstein. Like its a complement. But depending on the context and comparison, yeah it could be racist.​@@alatusedits

[@Travis371]

@@alatusedits Shut up. This isn't racist at all. Context matters.

[@DylanZwk]

@@alatuseditsyour the problem right now. People who get offended over everything ruin everything

[@jspres86]

The biggest problem I had was that Team FourStar did DBZ Abridged and I honestly believe that was better written than the actual series.

[@warrenbradford2597]

Now you mentioned it my biggest problems with Dragon Balls are the same as yours. However, an ongoing problem I have with Z is that it is the series where the human characters become more and more useless with each saga. Akira Toriyama nor the writers he worked with never came up with a power-up to help them keep up with the Super Saiyans (transformation, item, technique, etc.). This problem still sadly persists in GT and Super. Piccolo used to have this problem until Dragon Ball Super Super Hero where they gave him in orange form. They were able to give Piccolo a new transformation to keep with the Super Saiyans. Why not come up with something believable that will help humans become stronger?

[@SpectreStatus]

Forcing it by contrivance would hardly matter at this point.

[@warrenbradford2597]

@@SpectreStatus They do not have to forced it in. It can be a story arc about how the humans achieve their new power-up. Of course, I recommend doing story arcs for them only in subseries dedicated to them. That the main Dragon Ball series does not have to stop focusing on Goku and Vegeta while at the same time, give the human characters enough character development they desperately needed.

[@N.i.E.M.O]

Alternatively, I feel like Toriyama could have come up with something more interesting plot-wise than just requiring everyone to need to become like thousands of times more powerful with each arc, and that's pretty much the extent of the story and motivation. And only the Saiyans pull it off consistently, and it's always via a dues-ex-machina new SSJ form.

[@warrenbradford2597]

@@N.i.E.M.O I agree with you.

[@WizArtChelo]

I think the humans themselves were not the problem. But the lack of enemies for them to fight. Maybe minions of the main villain or antagonists with abilities that nullifies ki so the z-warriors depend on their techniques and special abilities.

[@Alexaltair972]

The worst decision was to make every main villain unbeatable without a new transformation. It makes every character who is not a sayain fall behind

[@EldonCult]

Brian Drummond made the "It's over 9000!" Famous. You used the wrong voice

[@ConciousCam]

Yes 😂 I thought it was Shabot in his younger days before his voice got deeper 😂 Edit:Christopher Shabbat sorry forgot the name

[@EldonCult]

@soundslikecam Android saga on, Shabbat was great but Drummond ruled them early episodes. I guess it's my opinion. I think Shabbat did that "Uhh, oh, ruh" stuff too much. Made Vegita sound like he needed to shit while Drummond made him sound aggressive

[@ConciousCam]

@@EldonCult I like Chris because his crazy work ethic I just don't like his over 9000 take

[@EldonCult]

@soundslikecam oh yeah. All them guys work their butt off. I'll just always like Drummond as he was the Vegita of my childhood. I do compliment Shabbat for the later seasons when he finally found his groove. You wanna see a major difference, look up the comparison where Drummon screams "You won't escape my wrath!" So good.

[@ConciousCam]

@@EldonCult idk how old you are bro but you sound older than me I'm 25 and if you grew with Drummond man that's dope ill check it out brother

[@Davyen]

"Power levels are bullshit!" - Vegeta, DBZA ep. 26

[@HybridAngelZero]

My personal picks Saiyan - Total agreement here, I know they're iconic, and I love scouters as a design, but I honestly think Power Levels are one of the worst things introduced to Dragon Ball, full stop, the negative impacts of it are still an overall problem. Frieza - Personally, I think Krillin, Gohan and Bulma more or less getting pushed aside despite being set up as the leading trio for the arc. I know the Super Saiyan moment is epic and iconic, and we can keep Goku v Frieza as the end fight, but Krillin and Gohan getting to do basically nothing in most major fights (especially when the Ginyu Force and Nail showing up seemed like it was setting up an awesome 5v5 throwdown) and poor Bulma was completely wasted, more or less spending the arc stuck in a cave. Cell - This may sound like a REALLY weird one, breaking Trunks' sword. It was so cool to have a weapon-based fighting style in the series again, and I felt like it really distinguished Trunks from the rest of the Dragon Team. A runner-up would be having Piccolo's reunited form with Kami being power crept so fast. Buu - Having almost every character sitting around on the Lookout doing basically nothing from the moment Buu is introduced. 18 is a hero now, which is a really cool twist,and we don't get to see her in a "real" fight. Tenshinhan showing up out of the blue for a last minute save was awesome, but he just gets kicked aside. And before anyone mentions that none of the characters would be strong enough to "make a difference", the writer can make any character anything they want! It was a huge missed opportunity

[@HoiPolloiNtertains]

Honestly, I think the issue with power levels could have been resolved right away. The Saiyan saga would have shown how a huge part of the galaxy uses power levels to determine who will win in a fight, but raditz and vegeta would have been defeated by weaker fighters. Raditz was beat by two weaker fighters and a child because they out played him. Vegeta would be defeated by everyone jumping him and using superior skills and tactics. Even Yagirobi was able to significantly impact the fight by cutting off Vegeta’s tail. Then during the Frieza saga we see Vegeta only using the scouter to spy on the Frieza forces. Even Vegeta realized (after being jumped and beaten on earth) that power levels don’t determine a fight. The power level issue skyrocketed with the Frieza saga, and that’s where I think power levels were actually a huge problem. Having Dedoria being stronger than Vegeta but Vegeta dismantling him and saying “power levels aren’t everything when you have talent” or something would have really nailed the power levels concept. Just my take on it though.

[@osirisjojo6876]

Tien would get the recognition he dissevered

[@TheLonnie300]

Agree with everything. If I had to throw a problem with the whole story (more like elephant in the room) is that death carried next to weight in dragonball z with dragon balls being the "get out jail free card" if someone ends up dying. Kinda why I always found the future of trunks story so appealing because death always carried that finality that it has in real life and makes feel scared/anxious when a character is danger or close to death like in other anime

[@jackgonahieu4999]

I agree with the zenkai thing, but i think it was necessary to justify the fear both Beerus and Freezer had of the saiyans.

[@TheAwesomeDarkNinja]

In TeamFourStar's series HFIL, they wrote a scene where Cell went up against the Ginyu Force. It was a unique situation because everyone involved had their power level locked at 0. It was such a randomly entertaining fight because the characters got to show off their abilities and skill, rather than one character just tanking their blows and curbstomping.

[@XaviBruh]

That Pokemon Diamond Lake piano was 🔥 in the background

[@solipsisme8472]

It's notorious that Toriyama hated the Cell saga and was burnt out by the Buu saga. Most the poor choices are due to Jump which didn't want Goku to diseappear due to his popularity, wasn't satisfied with the villains (Android 20 was too old, 17 and 18 were too young, Cell V1 was ugly af) and wanted to sell more merch (fusion dance, potara earrings, SSJ3,...), and so many more...

[@sadrequiem]

I love Goku as much as anyone but the whole series would’ve benefited by giving the spotlight to other characters from time to time. Z very quickly just became about the Sayans against the next big weird baddie. That’s mixed with the power creep, which is the biggest problem overall.

[@GeteMachine]

Another disagreement, is for the series to end after the Cell arc. People only say that because it made Gohan look good and they like his character, but in that bias. The Buu arc had a lot more character development on the characters outside of fighting that was foundational to them, like Gohan meeting Videl, Mr. Satan's redemption, Vegeta's long redemption arc, Gohan being weaker and Goku only intending to come back for a day being the trigger of Vegeta's arc, Goku adopting Vegeta's mentality on "Saiyans fight alone" and warrior pride, when they crush the Potaras after the Majin Vegeta fight. And Goku & Vegeta getting their rematch. If they never got a rematch, then the whole build up between Vegeta trying to surpass Goku in the Android arc wouldn't have went anywhere. Vegeta just gives up and thats it. The Buu arc also brought back the gag aspects of the series that the prior more serious arcs had dropped, while delivering a villain that was both menacing and goofy simultaneously. Now if you argue Goku should have stayed dead after his time was up, sure. But then Buu would have been an underdeveloped villain at that point and not have any pay off for the build up. Structurally, I think the Buu arc is good. I think the series should have just ended after Buu. Its when the writing was still solid.

[@monkeyman123321]

Well people say it should end at cell because the creator wanted to end it at cell and he wanted Gohan to be the hero of DBZ. But they pulled him back in to make one last one and then told him the fans want Goku. This doesn't mean there is good stuff in Buu Saga. Alone Majin Vegeta is enough to love Buu Saga. It's a part where most people will tear up watching.

[@alatusedits]

Real. Vegeta carried the buu arc and we would never see the iconic magin vegeta

[@Firemarioflower]

The writing in GT was solid too! Nothing wrong with it

[@rohankataria8414]

Good comment

[@alatusedits]

@@Firemarioflower it was shit

[@JK-fw3tb]

The biggest problem overall is fights in DBZ are mostly onesided

[@BmanTheChamp]

The biggest problem in the Cell saga was how stupid everyone seemed to be. Vegeta allowing Cell to reach his Perfect form, Trunks for not realizing that he had overtrained, Krillin for not simply shutting off 18, he could have just taken her away and had her reactivated once Cell was gone. There were quite a few more, but those were the really dumb decisions.

[@vulcans2658]

Gokus Zenzu bean too

[@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS]

Vegeta did that because of his pride, Krillin did that because of his crush, and Trunks....had a lot on his mind? lol I don't know Trunks' deal, but Veggie and Krill dog made sense.

[@BmanTheChamp]

@WxIxLxLxIxAxMxS Trunks, I think, was just too inexperienced as a fighter. Krillin, however, all he needed to do was shut 18 down and hide her until Cell was destroyed. Even Piccolo, he admitted that he screwed up by not just killing Imperfect Cell when he had the chance.

[@nicholashayes5773]

Couldn't agree more, especially with the Buu saga. All that buildup with Gohan, training with the Z Sword, getting the power boost from the elder Kai (which took hours), only to go to earth and get absorbed by Buu almost immediately and become useless. Like... what was the point of all that buildup?

[@SerenGetter]

Power levels already existed around the late King Piccolo arc, when sensing Ki is introduced. Characters were given soft ranks of power (regarding their ki) that kind of defined certain character limits Power levels just gave a (unreliable) number. Which became a narrative and thematic device in of itself for the Saiyan Saga

[@sarahdion6805]

Yeah the scouter was a cool concept the only problem is that they didn't last very long in the series which I wish they still used them but it does make sense why Akira toriyama dropped the idea

[@brianboese9884]

I actually love the Majin buu saga up until Goku is revived. You're spot on with that take. It should have been Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Piccolo in a group effort defeating Buu. Goku coming back just made the entire arc not make sense because Goku could have killed Buu when he was ss3. He didn't because he literally said the earth can't rely on some dead guy from history to save them but then that's exactly what happens.

[@yaboityler2617]

The biggest flaw in the Saiyan Saga is Popo's magic carpet. It was shown to be able to cross the world in the blink of an eye to get to Picollos old space ship. Yet after returning from Heaven, Goku still took the slower Nimbus to get to the battle. Like does Popo even care about saving the Earth?? Why didn't he use the carpet??

[@Darmani2MB]

"Mr. Popo! I need your carpet to get to my friends as quickly as possible!" "Making toast! *ding* Buttering toast!" "Aw, fine.... NIMBUUSSS!!!"

[@ObscureJester]

@@Darmani2MB Exactly. Some people simply aren't familiar with Popo nor pecking order.

[@howardonthepost3738]

I actually think the scouters were a good introduction because when Vegeta realized the scouters were useless because power fluctuates and you can’t put a number on peoples strength. Seeing as it was only the villains who relied on scouters to gauge weather they should engage in combat or not

[@Urlastnerve]

The biggest problem with the Buu saga is that it shouldn’t have happened. The show should’ve ended after Cell

[@alangagnon5203]

Cell Saga was the perfect wrap-up to everyone’s character arcs.

[@kratos8529]

What's your problem with buu saga Just curious

[@Urlastnerve]

@@kratos8529 it was created for the soul purpose of being fan service. Toriyama wanted the story to end with the Cell saga. Fans threw a fit and he decided to keep it going. That being said, the Cell saga was the perfect ending for the series. Everyone had a satisfying character arc that culminated beautifully by the end. Everyone was in a good place. The entire story of Dragon Ball, from Goku being a child, to him dying sacrificing his life to finally put an end to the Red Ribbon Army, was a full circle complete story line. Everything after that is the same old same and that’s why everyone has that argument that DB has no plot. Because they are correct. The plot ended with the death of Goku after the Cell saga, and every single thing put out afterwards is completely unnecessary and pointless fan service. If the anime ended after the Cell saga, it would be an undisputed top 3 anime of all time.

[@kratos8529]

@@Urlastnerve Also lots of unexplained theories 1) how super buu went to kid buu but not evil buu 2) fat buu absorbed dabura and didn't get powers but absorbed by evil buu gave it huge power boost 3) Goku lines about confusing strength of base super buu by saying at one point he will lose and then laughing at buu absorbed piccolo 4) saying kid buu is the strongest in anime

[@necrotafeio]

@@Urlastnerve i saw the boo saga as a way to pass goku's role to another character and continue with them, shame that didnt actually happen

[@battlemode]

This video is fantastic, really well presented and well argued! Thanks!

[@Fattyb00batty]

The problem with all of DragonBall was that death became more and more meaningless to the point that if you're so good you don't even die. The decision to not keep goku dead after cell was fan backlash and I wonder was DB would been if they hadn't.

[@Tony-fq5bn]

I agree with this, death became very meaningless to me in DBZ, especially with the introduction of different Dragonballs

[@necrotafeio]

like imagine trunks as a protagnist, that could've been dope

[@gabrielsantosdesouza8103]

I don't think I've agreed this much with a video. Congrats and thank you

[@ThatNinjaGuy]

If cell didn’t return and Gohan had to live with the guilt of Goku having to sacrifice himself, that could have lead to an interesting character arc into the buu saga of Gohan feeling like he needed to make up for that during the battle with buu which could have all paid off with him becoming ultimate Gohan at being the one to defeat buu.

[@Betrayedthelaw]

Good

[@MichaelSpikes-pv6kl]

Great video

[@GeteMachine]

My issue with the Freeza arc for a long time was, obviously that the fight with Freeza dragged on to long, and I mean before Goku shown up. But that he unlike the other villains never really felt like he earned his transformations, sure it was power he always had, but it just seemed like he was able to pull them out of thin air, and he claimed he couldn't control himself in all of them but he clearly could. Buu and Cell felt like theirs were earned.

[@ejayemike6541]

I actually think Frieza just randomly being a powerful mutant is what makes it better because it made him so sure of himself that there never would be a chance that anyone could ever be a threat to his well being. It's kinda like a rich kid who's just randomly born into money that just goes around bullying others less fortunate and throwing their weight around because they know their privilege goes a long way. I look at Frieza the same way in a power sense it's like he always knew that he could have an answer when someone came close to being a threat and would just hop to the next transformation and turn the tables on the opponent until SSJ came along and he ran out of answers because SSJ was just too mighty to overcome.

[@N.i.E.M.O]

Yeah, Frieza didn't make a whole lot of sense. He claimed he could barely control himself in anything but his first form, yet he seems to be perfectly fine with each subsequent transformation (each being multiple, to even well over 10× more powerful than the previous), and this point is never mentioned again. Toriyama probably just forgot. There's also the fact that by gradually cycling through each of his forms allowed the heroes to themselves gradually catch up to each new form. The silliest though is Goku showing up after struggling with Captain Ginyu, a power of 120,000, and then immediately facing final form Frieza, who was at least 4,000,000. That would require at least a 33x power boost compared to what he was before. Logic destroyed simply because Goku needed to suddenly show up to save the day after everyone else was getting their ass handed to them, for the third time in the series (First one being against Nappa, second was Recoome). Oh, and Goku is so strong he can read minds now. But he apparently forgets how to do this immediately after (just like Toriyama did).

[@Casey_Truman]

Great vid brother! For me the biggest problem in DBZ is Vegeta never getting a win. Toriyama seriously never gave that man a break! lol It actually could've been very cool for Vegeta to save the earth from Buu. But we all know what happened there lol

[@JamaalSTL]

A black guy with videos dedicated to DBZ?? Instant subscribe my boy

[@Saimeren]

Great video dude.

[@JosephIrvin-yk7bf]

I agree with most of this, also nice video. However while I agree power levels BECAME a problem later on, i dont agree that their introduction was fundamentally flawed. It created thematic juxtapostition between earlier dragonballs spirituality and heart (roshis training, korins tower etc.) and the cold and calculated nature of the saiyans, who were taken off guard by the earthlings ability to raise their ki on command. in fact vegeta realizes this and calls out Jeice. Its the later arcs that over depended on raw power thats more the issue. (Also more than the tien shinhan arc and frieza, I think the saiyan arc is the GOAT.)

[@BlakeOBK]

Beautiful well thought out video!

[@andrearovenski]

power levels are really silly. like, i loved them at first because it was a cool scifi tech thing, but after raditz it got old fast

[@comet_fodderyt]

That's some classy background music, i gotta say

[@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701]

I agree... Power Levels were a cool but Stupid Mistake!

[@nohbuddy1]

Vegeta not facing consequences for his crimes is crazy too

[@erichgomes7574]

I actually like the zenkai boost and power levels concept, but the problem with this is that they reached the million too soon. I mean, freeza already was a million power level in his second form. I will give an example: raditz was 1500 while goku and piccolo was around 400. Then, nappa was 4000 and vegeta 18 0000. That was no need to vegeta have it, why dont give him a 10 000? Why give ginyu force around 50 000? And why make freeza 500 000 in his first form? You know, was no need to certain characters have power levels so high

[@Tony-fq5bn]

Completely agree with this, Zenkai Boost and Power Levels were no doubt, two o the things that really captured the imagination of little boys across the globe, like you said tho, there was no need to raise the power level that fast, like SS Goku and final form Frieza should been 1,000,000 power level at most

[@SpongeWatches]

Dope video dude

[@Pyro67152]

Another issue with the Buu arc is all the wasted transformations - Super Saiyan 3, fusion dance, potara fusion, ultimate Gohan. None of them ultimately ended Buu (while some could have). Also, infinite regeneration became a problem starting with Cell. At first, it's menacing that the enemy is more difficult to put down. However, it also means the villain doesn't even have to be that good at fighting, yet cheaps out wins regardless. It's also odd how Buu's infinite regeneration disappeared as soon as he became a good guy.

[@huk2617]

All of them besides MAYBE Gotenks could have. And not just Buu's regen but also any relevance he had

[@Pyro67152]

@@huk2617 I agree. Gotenks not only massively lacked experience (making up moves on the fly - big combat no no) but a lot of his techniques, while flashy, lacked any real stopping power against Buu. Let's face it, the Galactic Donuts and Volleyball techniques were not cutting it.

[@crazymulatto8981]

You make some pretty good points actually. All of them are valid arguments.

[@dvasavertik7629]

The biggest problems were the dragon balls. They made death and sacrifices meaningless. Earth was destroyed? No biggie, we have the Namekian dragon balls. Namek was destroyed? We have the Earth dragon balls! People died too many times? We don't care as long the person died in an honorable battle. You can only bring back one person at a time? We upgraded the dragon balls so you can bring back as many as you want! You want to revive one of the most evil creatures in the DBZ universe? No problem, Kami certainly didn't create the dragon balls with a safeguard to prevent that! You don't want to spend time finding those pesky dragon balls? Here, have a radar that works on all of them! Dragon balls not powerful enough for you? We have super balls now that work across universes without any limits. When they didn't use the damn balls they just gave a free 24 hour pass to get back to Earth whenever the story needed it, as you mentioned. Also, poor Vegeta should've had his moment at some point but no, it always had to be Goku. They even reduced his character into a sad little man in the Buu saga who was so defeated by Goku's raw talent that he actually admitted that Goku is better than him. 100% out of character. They turned him into a silly house husband to Bulma who used the dragon balls to alter her age/physical appearance instead of using them for something.. you know.. good for the planet that saved them with Genki dama energy multiple times. Nah, screw Earth. And I also liked DBZ but I just hate BS.

[@Lektuerekurs]

Yo man, this was a very well made video!!! thanks

[@sjc5132]

super had a lot of the same frustrating "let's show other characters improving just to have them get benched so goku can win" moments even 17's eventual win is only because goku set everything up, and that's not to mention how the series seems to have a hardon for humiliating vegeta for seemingly no reason lots of seriously odd choices by the writers, almost like they set out to combine all their weird old saga issues into a new ultra problem-fest show

[@lol0ajo]

goku got help to beat strong opponents. he rarely win alone.

[@willthomas2310]

​@@lol0ajoExactly! Like what are people watching?

[@lol0ajo]

@@willthomas2310 ikr. goku fanboys think he's the toughest character but that's false. goku loses like other main characters. goku isn't even strongest being in the series

[@CosmoRetroGaming]

I love Dragonball, of course, too! However, I agree with everything you have said! Those are definitely points to talk about, but I still love the whole series.

[@yousufleads]

Everything after cell doesnt make logical sense

[@N.i.E.M.O]

Yep. I mean, we all know Toriyama just made stuff up as he went along, but the Buu saga in particular felt the most random, with little to no cohesive storyline or theme, especially once Super Buu appears.

[@kingofgames1986]

You made a lot of valid points. I'm definitely hitting that subscribe button

[@monkeyman123321]

Overall Dragon Ball is so much better then Z because DB had more Bulma bathing and showering. Z just didn't have enough.

[@errorstudioz]

Is this Roshi's burner acc

[@SCARLETTT555]

@@errorstudioz💀💀💀

[@Lichen1]

bro she was 16 at the time somebody call the authorities

[@phantomweight_editz]

Retire from commenting

[@tony_g6625]

​@Lichen1 16 is the age of consent in a lot of countries, japan included bud.

[@DrCorndog1]

Cool and thoughtful video.

[@stephenvargas5806]

A lot of people miss the point when it comes to power levels, the whole point of the scouter reading off power levels WAS to show the the earth fighters could still shock and surprise the the Sayians and Freeza army because they had skill and training. Even Vegeta starts to rely on skill over raw power and scouters. Power levels are to illustrate how these all powerful aliens from outer space were so unoriginal and stagnant in there pure power calculations that they end up losing to these low class Sayians and humans from a back water planet from humble earth martial arts techniques could beat these arrogant all powerful aliens. Yes the numbers force things to have crazy power creep later after the Freeza saga but if you actually look at it the person who usually has the strongest base power level usually doesn’t win that often.

[@cloudstrife8833]

Really nice video, in my opinion all flows makes sensez except for the cell one,i think it the goku sacrifice gave us the best gohan moment

[@aninymouse1651]

I think you nailed it tbh

[@alberttaylor6323]

Fire video bro, only suggest to have more distinct transitions. I didn’t even notice you moved onto section two until we were at section 3. It blended together too smoothly, especially bc power levels and zenkai boosts can apply to both saiyan and named saga Anyway good video, watched all the way easily

[@LSSJTHOR]

6:31 Kinda like Disney ruining Anakin Skywalker's sacrifice.. When Vader destroyed the Emperor. Disney is worse.

[@zach9962]

They’re gonna do butt stuff with eragon next. Nobody is safe😢

[@TheAlphaLegionnaire]

Your point about power levels is something I’d never considered, but it’s profound I think most of us overlook power levels because it’s so intrinsic to DBZ, but it really does remove stakes, tension, and even reduces many characters to observers rather than participants in the action.

[@dbox9120]

Honestly for the buu one I think Gohan should have beat buu like Goku did but then have kid buu come out and that's when Goku and Vegeta needed to beat kid buu with the help of everyone

[@zxcvfr4321]

This is why we love tfs. Also, great video!

[@zackakers9855]

Biggest issue with the entire series is the repetition.

[@ezekielanderson9055]

Power levels are awesome. It’s a good way to numerically represent how much stronger someone is other than “I’ve never felt a ki that strong before”

[@shahzebhasan9995]

For me: Saiyan Saga: The Dragon Team not meeting up during the time skip, it really diminishes the importance of the relationship they built up over the series (also foreshadows the terrible ending of Dragon Ball). Power Levels just exist to set a benchmark that would have to be illustrated anyway (as you said power-creep would occur without them), so I am fine with them. Freeza Saga: As contrived as Zenkais are, they just about work because of the strategy around them (also Goku's final victory has more to do with character development). Also, the human characters being irrelevant was a problem that already existed in Dragon Ball long before the introduction of Saiyans as a concept. I think bigger problems in this arc are the pacing and the way Piccolo's connection to Namek is wasted. Cell Saga: Perfect Cell himself is a boring villain, just a diet version of Freeza. Buu Saga: Everything after the ten year time skip, the characters that we loved meant absolutely nothing to Goku. Honourable mentions go to Super Buu and the series never acknowledging Goku's mistakes throughout this arc (forcing responsibilities on Gohan, having the "next generation" fix a problem he himself created (EDIT: A problem he can easily resolve thanks to SSJ3, partially why I feel its a terrible transformation), etc.).

[@insectboy100]

Nice intricate and well elaborated perspectives you got there.... NOW WATCH THIS POWER UP! in all seriousness, i agree with everything you said, but as long as i am having a good time. I stick around

[@slayerbrother5779]

Personally bring Cell back was a bad thing i do think that Goku Passing Gohan the torch was one of the best way to End the Series and they did Perfectly

[@monkeyman123321]

The only thing about bringing cell back was that is really showed Gohan was being passed the torch taking down the cell who Goku failed to do so. Which was a GREAT way to cap it off. As we can see in the saiyan saga piccolo said to Gohan that he was training him to be the greatest warrior, then during the Nappa fight being mad at Gohan for not being able to tap into his power. Namik Saga Vegeta literally mistake Unlocked Kid Gohan's Ki as Goku, which is Buu sagas worse part is Mystic Gohan just losing to Buu when it was set up for him to win it all.

[@SnowHelation]

Love hearing that “Plastic Love” instrumental in the background.

[@Kanyes-alt]

I disagree with saiyan arc

[@zach9962]

Ur over 9000!

[@jacobpuckett7637]

Honestly, I found this to be a fantastic video with very valid opinions that I have had myself. I feel like Dragon Ball Z should have ended after the Cell Saga as well and would’ve made for a perfect ending.

[@superexclusive452]

I view Dragon Ball as a whole as this OG Dragon Ball - Goku exploring his martial arts capabilities (skills, techniques, strategy) Dragon Ball Z - Goku exploring his Saiyan capabilities (power levels, strength, transformations) Dragon Ball Super - Goku balancing the two sides (martial arts/Saiyan roots) to perfect his Ultra Instinct

[@ExiledAndBanished]

i never realized these things even though i always kinda felt them. good video

[@zach9962]

I can fix dragon ball 1. Delete buu saga 2. Make ssj2 only accessible to gohan due to his hidden power 3. In dragon ball super goku isn’t brought back to life but he trains everybody to use god kii. This allows goku to remain a pivotal character and even be relevant fighting spirits. 4. Now only gohan can reach ssj2 god and takes on broly. Literally super saiyan god vs the legendary super saiyan 5. Beerus awakens and tests earth saiyans because a new threat exists that can only be faced by mortals as gods aren’t allowed to interfere. It kind of gives the z fighters a demigod feel 6. Give earth z fighters a transformation or something to make them relevant jeeez 7. Make the androids and trunks sword made out of the same metal, kinda like vibranium. That way their strength makes sense

[@justjohn8854]

Let him cook 🤔😭

[@DragoonCenten]

I hate Buu Saga to death but the SSJ3 transformation sequence is a work of art.

[@alastorthedemonslayer4257]

@@DragoonCentenYep, but i would probably only give it to Gotenks since it’s such a flawed transformation that a novice fighter like Gotenks would attempt. I love SSJ3’s look on Goku but it does hurt his character after what he said about SSJ Grades 2 & 3. It just counteracts him hard. Not to mention I don’t think Goku can make himself angry enough post Cell saga to achieve SSJ2 in the afterlife. If anything I think Super Kaioken should have been Goku’s next step. Goku saw Gohan rage in the chamber which gave him the answer to surpass Super saiyan hence why he trains both his and Gohan’s super saiyan forms to become close to their base forms to make it natural so when the time comes a new feeling of primal rage may break the barrier to achieve the ascended Super saiyan form. So it would make the form possible for Gohan & Vegeta given their rage but I feel that Goku is too calm and tranquil at that point of time and would come to the conclusion that SSJ2 just isn’t possible for him thus he would opt to try combining the Kaioken with Super Saiyan now that he has conquered the rage of the Super Saiyan.

[@thomassmartphone7125]

Beerus and Super is garbage😂

[@zach9962]

@@alastorthedemonslayer4257 yeah bro ida kept that ssj2 limited to gohan and thanks for the explanation made a lot of sense

[@giyarhandaru6939]

Man uses Plastic Love as backgroud music. Legend!

[@KepalaMonyet]

0:19 Why not just rerecord the line, instead of correcting yourself in-the-video with text?

[@Me_Jonah]

Its easier to be lazy.

[@KepalaMonyet]

@@Me_Jonah Fair answer!

[@freashswagg1]

Hush

[@freashswagg1]

@@Me_Jonahbe quiet

[@hyperx72]

It's probably one of those things you only catch late in editing where it would be annoying to re-record without it sounding off, so you just say "screw it, they'll see what I mean in post!"

[@robertking5412]

Most of us watched DBZ runs when were kids and adolescents and i think it was written with that in mind. The cool fights, transformations and crazy villans, centralised around Goku are what made it amazing to watch after school and talk about it the next day. Were were not discussing the impact of Krillen becoming redundant due to zenkai boosting saiyans lmao.

[@ryangilsing3745]

Found this channel love it Sub 💪🏻

[@JoseFlores-xh5cj]

I remember the Android Saga how after Future Trunks warned the Z fighters, every episode ended with a clip of 2 devilish shadow figures fighting each other, with the final result been 2 teenagers and immediately written to drive a van

[@keembo8413]

bro wth this pokemon diamond/pearl lake piano arrangement is beautiful 😭 6.5/10 vid great work

[@rafaelcarrera9436]

An excellent breakdown of many similar issues I had with the series. Personally I would have preferred it end after the Frieza saga and the next story be a shared main role amongst Gohan, Piccolo and Krillin.

[@felman87]

I'm 100% with you on Power Levels. And Toriyama seemed to agree, considering what he did with Super and the Universe Tournament bringing people out of retirement. Even Roshi got involved. But the Power Level system makes it so ludicrous. He popped that bottle and it made it tough to reseal it.

[@huk2617]

Problem there is we have characters like Krillin and Roshi who are Final Form Frieza level in Z at best (and even that's really pushing it) getting bs powerups just to make them relevant again. Not to mention Frieza syndrome

[@Xis_sa]

Though I respectfully disagree with your points from the cell and buu saga you bring up a lot of Good points great vid

[@teamrocfan]

I understand things like power levels, zenkai boost, etc changes battle dynamics compared to the old school dragon ball but people seem to forget this is what makes dragon ball z special.

[@sigiligus]

The people who can criticise and recognise flaws are the truest fans. The people who try to excuse every flaw or inconsistency are not really fans of the series itself, they’re people without a strong sense of self using the series as a means of trying to find an identity.

[@jadude119]

Great review!

[@corruption1724]

The iconic over 9000 scene was from the Ocean Dub.

[@Lonn715]

I 100% think Gohan should have become the main character after the Cell Saga. The conflict within himself between not really wanting to fight but being forced to fill his father's shoes to save his friends, loved ones, and even earth could have been great. Goku could have even talked to him through King Kai from the afterlife to give him pep talks and words of encouragement.

[@Patrick_The_Pure]

My main problem with the Cell Saga is that it makes no sense why Cell needs to absorb the androids. He's like a failsafe for when the Androids fail, but in order to become stronger he needs to absorb the androids.... which would already be destroyed. And if the androids did succeed, what use would Cell be, to become "the universes end?". That also makes no sense as that was never Gero's point, he simply wanted to dispose of Goku, not everything in existence.