Exploring the Enneagram with Lisa Whelchel, Ian Morgan Cron & Beth McCord | Dinner Conversations

Enneagram authors and podcast host Ian Morgan Cron (ianmorgancron.com) and television star Lisa Whelchel (lisawhelchel.com) begin a conversation about how better to relate to God and others by knowing yourself - the good and the bad - better through the help of the Enneagram. Plus Your Enneagram Coach's Beth McCord (yourenneagramc...) chimes in on how to use these tools from an explicitly Christian perspective! Don't miss a single episode of Dinner Conversations-subscribe below! #DinnerConversations #MarkLowry #AndrewGreer #LisaWhelchel #IanMorganCron #Enneagram
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[@dinnerconversationswithmar2965]

Looking forward to learning how learning about our own personalities relates to learning about our identity in Christ this Monday night April 27 at 8p CST right here! We'll be chatting along.

[@LorieLee7]

Dinner Conversations with Mark Lowry and Andrew Greer - please watch this. These “personality types” were given to a man who gave himself over to spirits in automatic writing. There is a clip of him saying this himself in this video. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJrMk5-NZbipbsk

[@LorieLee7]

I really love your channel. This is so sad to me that you are apparently promoting enneagrams (it sounds like you are from what is written in the description). Please don’t take my word for their occult roots - look it up. Please reconsider airing this. You are influencing a lot of people.

[@therealtehry7364]

It will be interesting to read the comments as this episode airs tonight. Houston, you have a problem.

[@susannahwhite7561]

@@LorieLee7 Thankyou.

[@samulmagnus1]

Aaand this is the problem... More and more New Age is entering the church. Nowhere in scripture are we commanded in any way to seek out any type of revelation like this. Introducing or promoting witchcraft to the body of Christ is a serious offense. Please, please, please do some serious fact checking on this.

[@stephaniemcclintock3752]

I love your channel but something about this subject made me uneasy so I turned it off. Then I came back later to write this comment..and I see that I was not the only one. Anyway. God bless you for all that you do.

[@lindafowler1738]

I suggest you watch Doreen Vitrues KZbin channel about subject before watching this about enneagram

[@andrewcramer9200]

Yes! Doreen, Marcia Montenegro, Don Veinot, Melissa Daugherty, a guy who goes by INTJ on KZbin (he was big into the MBTI until he looked deeper at its root philosophies) are all good resources, God has shown me a whole lot through their videos and writings about things creeping into churches.

[@andrew5184]

Andrew Cramer I don’t believe you.

[@Tamara-de3gd]

“Christian” enneagram is a misnomer. Please, please do some research on this before you air this episode. You are accountable for what you air. Not coincidently, as nothing is coincidental with God, Doreen Virtue just posted a video on enneagrams 8 hrs ago. It is a good start in understanding why this is unscriptural, in error and the history behind it. I pray for wisdom and discernment from the Holy Spirit. ❤️

[@brendagirard3263]

Your so right Tamara ... Just like there is No Such Thing As Christian Yoga 🙏🙏🙏🙏.

[@LorieLee7]

Brenda Girard - I agree!

[@marymurphy919]

I absolutely agree here are ex- New agers who have come to Christ. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnfOiqaorp6hoLs

[@traceythomson7502]

Deception to the core. Interesting that ex new agers are warning christians to beware of these practices. Why would you want to limit yourself to a number? Please!

[@TheExastrologer]

Ian Cron has worked with RIchard Rohr who does not hold to the essentials of the faith. Ironically, Gloria Gaither is a big fan of Rohr's as well. Rohr denies atonement for sins, thinks creation was the first incarnation of Christ, all are in Christ and were never separated from God, there is no 2nd coming of Jesus Christ.

[@Seekingthefacts4]

Well, that is surprising about Gloria.

[@andrew5184]

I have even more respect for Gloria now.

[@jllyjill]

This is NOT good. Enneagram has origins in automatic writing-which is occultism. Also, our eyes need to be on Christ and not on ourselves. Self is our favorite topic. The Lord asks us to deny it.

[@LorieLee7]

Could not agree with you more.

[@humbleservant3297]

A handful of famous people get together to talk about self and promote an occult process that points to self, not Christ. Not even original.

[@nonyabizznas6169]

This is esoteric and the fact u are encouraging Christians to do it makes me wonder about your walk with god,open your bible and read it

[@andrew5184]

Nonya Bizznas You’re one to talk. You didn’t even use a capital G!

[@TMcConnaughhay]

Amen!

[@brendagirard3263]

Big O on this video, sorry Mark and Andrew , pray for discernment , this is no time to let your guard down . I'll be praying for you , can't you see this is not The Gospel , this is not right ..... My , my core and even 3 ness And 4 ness , its gobbly goop , not from God , she also used the word Energy New Age Term ! I hope people dont watch this one 🙏

[@KingsDaughter1958]

The spiritual gift of DISCERNMENT doesn't seem to have been used in the decision to post this discussion. VERY disappointing. No, no, no :(

[@andrew5184]

KingsDaughter1958 I don’t understand, princess.

[@dasowle89]

This episode makes my soul cringe! 😖 Those who's eyes are open lets pray together for those who are mixed up in this occultism!

[@andrewcramer9200]

Amen 😑

[@LorieLee7]

I agree!! We need to be vocal and stand up for the truth. Christians, this is no time to be entertaining these New Age lies!!

[@mamainchristjesusofthechri9886]

Isn’t this a form of “interpreting omens”?? May you all be granted Godly sorrow and repentance from the enneagram... “There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer.... For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you.” Deuteronomy 18:10-12

[@jlynncal69]

Heavenly Father, in Jesus name, please bless and protect everyone here and their loved ones from the enemy. We humbly pray for your wisdom, discernment, knowledge, grace, mercy, peace, protection and guidance through Jesus our Lord and Savior. You are our Refuge and fortress. Surely you will deliver us from the fowlers snare and the deadly pestilence. (Psalm 91) Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father, but by me”. Thank you Father God, we love you so much, in Jesus name we pray. Amen. 🙏❤️✝️🙏

[@gracelatour3441]

Thank you to all who have posted about this episode - it was frighteningly deceptive - God is not interested in your comfort - He is interested in your character. This was so obviously all about self - and to be 'in Christ", is to die to self - so disappointed that Mark and Andrew have promoted this episode and have shown a visible lack of discernment!

[@joeyday576]

Not trying to be mean but this is more trendy TBN-esque mumbo jumbo.

[@bmbutler2]

The enneagram has its roots in the occult new age movement. So sorry and sad to read of more people falling for the devil's lies.

[@andrew5184]

Yes, because TBN is sooooo trendy.

[@shannonbuschman9593]

I don't like the sound of this at all, looks like i will be directing my interests elsewhere at the Dinner hour. Heaven help us........

[@andrew5184]

And someone else help the ChildFund as well, I suppose...

[@kwhite2505]

Mark, I love your dinner conversation videos; however, this one was not one of my favorites. Shouldn't we as Christians continually point people to Christ and show people that their identity comes solely from the Creator himself and not from some man-made chart that looks like a pentagram? The only thing we need to know about ourselves is that we are ALL sinners and we ALL need a Savior. (And that Savior is Christ Jesus -- born of a virgin, who was sinless, and died on a cross for the forgiveness of our sin, and who was resurrected on the third day). If you ask me who I am, I will NOT tell you that I am a number 2, 3, or 100 -- I am an adopted child of the living God!!! Instead of trying to figure out my personality I want to discover all of the characteristics of the one true God so that when he comes back I will recognize him and not be deceived. Sorry, but I think this is a topic that may trip up people who are not secure in their faith. How about asking Jan Martell to come on your show and discuss the other side of the topic?? We are clearly warned in Scripture (Galatians 5:1) to not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. God set us free at the cross, but Satan wants to make us captive again by turning our focus on ourselves or our circumstances. He wants us to turn us from looking full into His wonderful face to looking in some other direction!!! Eve, turned her face, looked at the apple, thought it looked good and took one bite, and that simple act caused all of us a lot of TROUBLE!!!! We need to be extra careful in these chaotic times!!! Bless you!!!!

[@lissettesbloom8223]

K WhiteI feel the same about this video. Seems like new age mixed in the bowl. Not the gospel.

[@andrew5184]

I would not want to have a dinner conversation with either of you! And you’re both wrong, frankly. You may be a sinner, but it might be helpful to know the myriad of particular ways in which YOU are a sinner (including your unconscious motivations) and the way the Gospel intersects with your story. If you don’t, are you really as grateful for the savior as you say?

[@andrewcramer9200]

It doesn't know your unconscious motivations. "Another odd thing about the descriptions, is that several of them talk about feelings which we are unaware of. Gee, if I'm unable to discern my own feelings, I hardly expect a personality test based on numerology to know any better." skepticsplay.blogspot.com/2009/08/experiments-and-enneagrams.html?m=1

[@carlajones9154]

Jesus gave us clear and numerous warnings about false teachings , this is unbiblical and does not lead us to the true teachings in Gods word and only Gods word has the power to transform us and explain our true condition and true identity , and a lead us to true life that is only found in Jesus Christ.

[@LorieLee7]

Carla Jones - beautifully said.

[@redeemedbygodsgrace1971]

I know I have special strengths and weakness as a person....God made me exactly who HE wanted to be. I go to God in prayer when I need direction in my life.....I am so extremely disappointed in this podcast.....I believe you will do more harm than anything with this conversation. As soon as I saw what your guest were going to talk about I shut off my i -Pad.....I knew better than to watch this “NEW AGE GARBAGE”! Just so very disappointed with this episode 👎😢👎

[@sharonanderson540]

Thanks for sharing this love Lisa whelchel

[@heatherriley9930]

The Enneagram is NOT based in sound science or biblical teaching. We are all created unique by God but scripture is all any type of person needs to reveal their sin and work towards Christ-likeness. We do not need to identify with anything other than Christ and our focus should not be inward but on Him. The Holy Spirit works in our lives through scripture - His word, not through your feelings or false personality tests. Real science as far as it accurately (and can prove its accuracy) describes nature (God’s creation) CAN be a useful tool to help people with health. However the Enneagram comes from the New Age NOT Psychology or any other science. Just because some claim ancient Christians used the Enneagram doesn’t mean it’s true. It’s a false claim - go look in the historical record. But even if it were true - ancient Christians were also frequently guilty of outright heresy that led people away from Christ. Enneagram is not helpful, true, necessary, biblical, or scientific. Stop promoting this! You’re directing Christians time and energy away from a biblical focus.

[@andrewcramer9200]

Exactly. Paul wrote: *In your relationships with one another*, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature[a] God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature[b] of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death- even death on a cross! Philippians 2:5-8 (NIV). Supplementing scripture with man's "wisdom" is never necessary. We already have the road map to improve our relationships.

[@LorieLee7]

Heather Riley - so well said. I agree with you 100%!

[@sharonanderson540]

What Lisa whelchel said made sense to me

[@MrCraigblaze]

Thanks for the upload..Happy late birthday Lisa ..May 29 1963 XD

[@zin153]

Oh dear, another example of the occultic creep into Christianity.

[@sotxgalwtex980]

Zin - this is not biblical what you see here. This is from the New Age teaching of Richard Rohr, with this Enneagram. Which is anti-biblical. They are not biblically speaking, at all, period. It is not edifying the Lord. Unfortunately there are false teachings, distractions, so many and they have zero to do with the Bible and its truths.

[@andrew5184]

Richard Rohr is great! Thanks for mentioning him.

[@crystalwang7372]

Now that I’ve watched the episode in it’s entirety this one is a hard pass. Sorry guys. The gentleman interviewed mentioned Richard Rohr who is a self proclaimed Perennial. Perennialism is the belief that all of the world’s religious traditions share a single truth. (John 14:6) He teaches that weather one accepts Christ or not, all will be saved. (That’s an easy one Jon 3:16) He also teaches we share in God’s DNA and therefore we have a god like nature. Sorry the biggest red flag of all is he is endorsed by Oprah, the mother of new age teaching. I truly wholeheartedly pray that people look into what I’m saying. Don’t believe me, research it yourself. It is false teaching when we change who Christ is and/or bring God down to a human level and elevate ourselves to God’s level. That is prideful and following a Jesus who cannot save. Dinner Conversations, in no way am I saying this is what any of you believe or teach. Over the last year I’ve been called to seek real truth in my life and I’m definitely a work in progress. I have become passionate to speak against false teaching such as this and the NAR. I this is not in anger but in true love and hope that research will be done so that truth can live in people’s lives. May Jesus soften our hearts so that real truth can seep in. Amen

[@andrewcramer9200]

Amen. 2 John 1:10-11 says "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works." 😔

[@crystalwang7372]

I was going to make statement that unfortunately this is false practices. We can’t just slap the term Christian in front of it and it “magically” becomes truth. I’m so impressed to see how many others spoke out. Praise Jesus! I so enjoy watching Doreen & Melissa. They have helped bring truth into my life. I pray that Mark & Andy do read these comments and truly understand that everyone is speaking out of love and only want the truth for them and their viewers. I personally can’t wait to watch the episode with Michael Tait & Lynda Randle.

[@joygregory6521]

I love thought provoking conversations. I took the test twice to see if I would get different results but it came out exactly the same both times - 9w7. A famous theologian said "Enneagrams it would appear, of themselves, are probably not harmful and could be helpful, unless they become more important than the scriptures in discovering who we are as personalities".

[@shambur1980]

Hi! Your wing would be the numbers on either side of your core number, so if your'e a 9 it would be 8 or 1 :). 9s often mistype as 7s because they are both positive types.

[@andrewcramer9200]

skepticsplay.blogspot.com/2009/08/experiments-and-enneagrams.html?m=1 It doesn't reveal anything, it's an arbitrary list that has no validity, nobody who believe it seems to want to address why a majority of psychologists don't use this, and many had never even heard of it.

[@lisagraced8112]

Did Mr. Lowry take the Lord’s Name in vain at marker 2:32?

[@KingsDaughter1958]

Yes! VERY disappointing :(

[@luannesivertsen7887]

Sila Craeg yes I heard it. I stopped and took it back to make sure. So disappointed. This whole episode is so wrong.

[@KellySweet15]

@@KingsDaughter1958 lol

[@Diostillrocks]

This kind of stuff is what I would expect Jimmie Page to be into, not Lisa Whelchel.

[@SunshineCali123]

Diostillrocks Lisa attended Robert Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral, which now is in the Catholics hands. She has spoken there also, I watched it at the time. Schuller was new thought and leaned toward new age beliefs. I’m not surprised she is for the Enneagram at all. Mark you better do your research.... or possibly you have already and.....

[@johntwatson3874]

People searching certainty in uncertain times. A pseudoscientific parlor game to the rescue.

[@andrewcramer9200]

The response is usually something along the lines of "you can't spell pseudoscientific without scientific!" ☹

[@andrew5184]

I guess it’s comforting to know you’re not a “science denier”, John T Watson, since you decry something you deem to be “pseudoscientific”.

[@andrewcramer9200]

'Typologies serve two basic functions: they codify and they allow prediction. They are appealing because they offer simplistic pigeonholing and an assumed peek into the unknown. Hence they are a form of divination and fortune telling. They can be as entertaining as any parlor game, but the real tragedy of such schemes is that life-and-death advice is being given to people. A “Temperament Counselor” who advises on a lifetime career, marriage or spiritual development is likely to influence people’s lives for good or ill. Moreover, the victims often believe that they are really gaining knowledge about others and often rely upon the scheme to explain and excuse questionable behavior in others and themselves, instead of growing and changing by assuming responsibility. Unfortunately, from the scientific point of view, nothing is explained if the state we have attributed to the person from his behaviour, is then invoked as the cause of the behaviour from which it was inferred. Circular explanations like this give the appearance of a genuine explanation that offers genuine knowledge. But it is only illusory.’ The International Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences (not a religious fundamentalist textbook). It is pseudoscience per actual scientists.

[@hannahgadlage]

Morning everyone !

[@dawnaskey4975]

Lisa Welchel- as an actress, I was always aware that you were acting. It's truly good to see the you that you are discovering your self to be! I'm more comfortable with who you are now than the persona you projected. You are approachable now. As a Loyalist, I wouldn't have been comfortable with the persona.

[@amycorron3731]

I've become such a huge fan of Dinner Conversations and I had never heard of the enneagram before. So, I had this on while doing other things. Then up pops Doreen Virtue's interview with 2 Christian authors who have exposed the evil of this practice. Now I'm so ashamed to have watched this! Thank you to all who have commented and warned unsuspecting viewers. Wish I would have read the comments BEFORE playing the entire video.

[@hannahgadlage]

Good morning today is the day i go back to work prayers would be great

[@redeemedbygodsgrace1971]

FWI.....I have watched Christian podcast that have very negative things to say about this topic! I am going to do my homework, but as a Born Again Christian.....if this is not sound doctrine straight from God’s word.....I would never subscribe to this (much like Yoga)! 👆🙏👆

[@fair2middlin]

You must have jumped six feet in the air when beauty queen Lisa Whelchel agreed to meet in the same room with you.

[@fair2middlin]

That being said --how is life different for famous, beautiful divorced people versus unattractive divorced people?

[@robin-tainebrownell1491]

This was a terrific conversation. The enneagram has been a powerful tool in my life and I so appreciate conversation about it.

[@joseburgos1224]

Hi Friends in live conversation

[@MrCraigblaze]

I never heard Lisa talk with her Texas accent.. XD

[@sotxgalwtex980]

So wrong, this is anti-biblical. And you have fallen into this trendy trap of the new age teachings. Mark, this is not pointing people to Christ, its not edifying to the Lord. Its not “just” a personality test.

[@troyart]

No discernment here...move on...

[@RoyalMasterpiece]

Why couldn’t DISC be used?

[@smitycrochet]

What is disc?

[@andrewcramer9200]

smity, I don't speak for RoyalMasterpiece but I have a free second: DiSC is another personality inventory, but was apparently created through active, critical thought, not "secret knowledge" (gnosis), automatic writing, or any other occultic practices endemic to the Enneagram. I can't speak whether DiSC is scientifically robust or not but at least it has a head start.

[@RoyalMasterpiece]

Andrew Cramer Thank you, Andrew. I appreciate you. ❤️

[@HisDotr2]

This was a very interesting conversation. It's important for us to understand who we are In God's eyes by understanding the personality traits and defenses we have built over the years in order to fully experience God's love. This is from a Christian perspective.

[@bmbutler2]

The enneagram is based in the occult new age. Please don't be deceived. Where in the Bible does it tell us how knowing our "personality traits and defenses" know who we are in God's eyes? Please don't be deceived.

[@andrewcramer9200]

The Enneagram can not tell you what your sins ("defenses") are, it is a wholly arbitrary list. Jay Medenwaldt addresses this in his dismantling of the Enneagram here: www.jaymedenwaldt.com/2019/01/the-enneagram-science-and-christianity_17.html?m=1 Key quote: "[A]ccording to the Enneagram, my sin as a 5 is avarice (hoarding); however, of all the sins listed for the 9 types, this is probably the one I struggle the least! Ironically, the sin I probably struggle with most is associated with 7s (although the sins of 1s and 2s are about equal), which is the direction I am supposed to move when I am "healthy.""

[@CopperLace]

Mark...check your body image, facial features, you know this is beyond bad. What do you think Vestal would say?

[@jennifursun3303]

what is an enneagram never heard of it

[@LorieLee7]

jennifur sun - here is one video explaining the occult roots of it. There are many. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJbPdWSvqLNgl7s

[@LorieLee7]

jennifur sun - here is another. On this video there is a clip of the man who “invented” these personality types in the 60’s. He used an “automatic writing” session where he opened himself up to whatever spirits wanted to enter him to have him write things down. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJrMk5-NZbipbsk

[@K_DZ236]

It's witchcraft cloaked in Christian bubble wrap.

[@brendagirard3263]

@@jennifursun3303 Run from it ! Watchman 7

[@rhymeandreasoning]

Great video. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[@shambur1980]

I'm wondering if any of these commenters watched the whole episode?? The Enneagram is like any other personality typing system, it just looks at motivation rather than behavior. This was a great convo with both Ian and Lisa as well as Beth McCord who is gospel centered. Loved it!

[@andrewcramer9200]

facebook.com/103502882236/posts/10156837044792237/ worshiphisbeauty.wordpress.com/2020/05/09/the-theology-of-the-enneagram/?fbclid=IwAR21bNduoTZ3Nks8mpli2Iiu-YyKsEUi9-2zTmuoEs518zlqpKYiiNNSZrU In the second link, the idea that the Enneagram reveals motives is pretty thoroughly debunked, biblically (Hebrews 4:12), unless you think the Bible and Holy Spirit are insufficient. The Enneagram is an arbitrary, worldly tool of self-worship.

[@tophermagellan6017]

What was for lunch? Do you cook it or have it catered?

[@Amy-bs1qp]

I find myself being 1,6,9. Is that possible?

[@andrewcramer9200]

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/people-are-strange/201909/when-personality-test-results-are-wrong-feel-so-right "Although it often feels very specific, much of the personality profiles associated with different MBTI and Enneagram types are quite general [...] you will find many statements that could apply to just about anyone" You've found the flaw in the system. Enneagram supporters will tell you that you just need to study it more, but all that's doing is focusing you on yourself and not Jesus. It's not useful at all. www.jaymedenwaldt.com/2019/01/the-enneagram-science-and-christianity_17.html?m=1 "the use of an invalid tool can be deeply harmful for people, especially when it comes from a person of authority. If a pastor, counselor, or spiritual leader uses the Enneagram to help someone, what happens when it is wrong? The person will likely feel embarrassed and think they are even worse off than they thought. If they assume the test is valid even though it doesn't really describe them, then they will spin their wheels trying to solve problems they don't have."

[@shambur1980]

You can see yourself in all of the numbers but it really comes down to Core motivation and you have one primary number. 9 has a 1 wing (wings are the numbers on either side of your primary number) and also goes to 6 in stress. For an introduction I would read "The Road Back to You" by Ian Cron and Suzanne Stabile

[@andrewcramer9200]

@@shambur1980 You do not mention that the concept of wings was created by New Agers Don Riso and Russ Hudson, and I assume you are probably not aware that they were debunked in 1991 by Anthony C. Edwards. Patrick Vermeren describes it in his 2019 book A Skeptic's HR Dictionary: "It is highly likely that Riso tried to avoid the criticism that it is unlikely that people would nicely ‘fit in a box’ by pulling a switcheroo: claiming each type has a “wing” of the adjacent types. Much to my delight, this adaptation of the theory was tested by Edwards (1991) and found to be wrong. Of course, one can switcheroo ad infinitum, and that is exactly what Riso did: he later wrote that it is possible for someone to have a ‘wing’ of a non-adjacent type. Okay, so any type will do now. Right." The Enneagram has no basis, no rules, and can be twisted to fit however any given New Age practitioner wants. It has been debunked at every turn, but thanks to the New Age concept of placing our subjective feelings over objective truth, it persists. Yay :|

[@raylsullivan]

Add me to the minority of the comments. This put into a quantitive way why I put up walls at a young age and walls are still there at age 43.

[@andrewcramer9200]

Again, experts in the field have heard all this before, it's an illusion. You think you've obtained "hidden knowledge", but all you've got is conjecture and presuppositions, confirmation bias leads you to link events of your past (that everyone else experiences as well, thus the Forer Effect) to this non-existent type. Example, one person who denounced the Enneagram said she first bought into her "type" because early in her life, she liked to be praised for whatever she was doing. Please find me a child who doesn't like positive recognition from their parents. I'll wait. Forer Effect and circular reasoning.

[@kavln11]

There is nothing Christian about the Enneagram. Please do some research on this false teaching to see why it’s a lie.

[@karenecurran7895]

This dinner conversation was so interesting. I now know I m a nine who needs to enjoy the moment.

[@andrewcramer9200]

Don't take it seriously, the test can't tell you anything you didn't know already, but may have aspects that don't apply to you at all. Once you've bought into it, you start imagining things wrong with you that don't even exist, that's how the power of suggestion works. This is why a vast majority of psychologists don't use this.

[@ineldafitte5797]

Great show! Thank you.

[@rhymeandreasoning]

Those harmonies are amazing.

[@pinkpd4019]

This was really disappointing. Never would I have thought New Age practices would be not only aired, but promoted by Mark & Lisa. I’m starting to question everything from you guys now.

[@homeschoolingsisters538]

Oh my goodness. The Enneagram is from the occult. This really concerns me that this is so accepted by people claiming to be Christians.

[@Seekingthefacts4]

Mr Mark, I wish u had done more research before airing this. I am a researcher of things I hear that I don’t know about. So I started one today. It is scary to me to listen to the videos about this kind of stuff. I wasn’t going to say anything publicly, but then saw the other comments. I really didn’t like when that guy came back at you after you talked about God.

[@gloriamoore766]

I used to see the light of Jesus shining in Lisa's eyes. I don't see it now. Very disappointing to see her countenance now. I pray that God lead all of you into His truth & righteousness. I love you all but fear for you going into this teaching.

[@danyaclairmont]

Thank you for this! The Enneagram has really helped in my relationships with family and friends. I love how Ian, Lisa, and Beth McCord bring it all back to scripture. I'm so frustrated with people who think this is deceitful. Anything can be turned and used for evil, but I choose to use this as a relationship changing tool. Thanks, Mark and Andrew for the conversation!

[@LorieLee7]

Danya C - it isn’t something good that was “turned and used for evil”. This is rooted in the occult right from the start, disguised as something “good”. It’s like reading horoscopes or using tarot cards. You would be wise to spend even a few minutes looking up the source of this enneagram “knowledge” - it came from a man in the 60’s who let spirits come in him & write through him during an automatic writing session.

[@andrewcramer9200]

www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevin-deyoung/enneagram-road-back-somewhere-else/ There is no scriptural support for this. And one minor issue with this article is that it isn't fully aware of the Enneagram's origins apparently. For THAT, we should go back to Carl Jung whose typology theories are the basis: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmivZ3eQgKmXaM0 So yeah, it's a religious tool that thrives largely on the Forer Effect and various cognitive biases people aren't aware they're guilty of. Psychologists largely eschew this "test". Unless, of course. . .they're into the New Age.

[@mandydoerfler2909]

Glad to see so many discerning Christians commenting here. It’s disgusting how far this has infiltrated the church. Can’t even handle a few minutes of this. How awful.

[@tophermagellan6017]

I really wanted an interview with Lisa. kind of bummed about this one.

[@jasongoad1084]

If you are using the Enneagram you are practicing in occultism. Why as Christians are you advocating for this?

[@ar12281]

Let's be careful Not to get caught up in New Age of the enneagram.

[@piscessun3087]

I'm a 9...100% spot on!! Thank yooooooou for such a great video!! 👍☺️🙋

[@andrewcramer9200]

That's the Barnum Effect at work.

[@debbiball6636]

The enneagram is just a tool to understand ourselves and each other. I don’t think it offends God.

[@andrewcramer9200]

Deuteronomy forbids divination, automatic writing is a form of divination. The Enneatypes were formed through automatic writing by Claudio Naranjo. The Enneagram offends God. It also offends secular psychologists www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/people-are-strange/201909/when-personality-test-results-are-wrong-feel-so-right And because I keep seeing the phrase "a tool to understand ourselves and each other" here's that exact point refuted by a Christian psychologist www.jaymedenwaldt.com/2019/01/the-enneagram-science-and-christianity_17.html?m=1 "[I]t is a barrier to understanding others, which may sound odd since it's supposed to help people understand others. In simple terms, the Enneagram is a PC way to stereotype people. Once you have it in your head that a person is a certain number, you will filter everything they say and do through your expectations based on the Enneagram. This will cause you to misunderstand others, what they are trying to say, and what their intent is...and that is assuming you correctly categorize them in the first place (which is unlikely based on the scientific evidence.)" See this is WHY the Bible forbids practices like automatic writing: it doesn't and can not produce anything useful.

[@andrew5184]

I am clearly out of place here among the commenters of this video. One thing I may have in common with some of you is an appreciated for Mark (I sadly seem to be alone in my deep admiration for Ian Morgan Cron in this strange part of KZbin I’ve stumbled onto). I grew up laughing at Mark’s comedy albums and listening to southern gospel music. I recently rediscovered Mark and realized, “He’s actually quite insightful!” I wonder how many of you listen to his bit from roughly 15 years ago about being a “recovering fundamentalist” and realize he’s talking about YOU! You fear and decry what you don’t understand, dismissing it and labeling it “dangerous”. I’d hate to rob you of your sense of satisfaction from having “rebuked” or “corrected” someone you think is “being led astray by every wind of doctrine”, but who am I kidding... I couldn’t if I tried. It’s sad. You have zero imagination for the many beautiful ways in which Jesus encounters the hearts of people and manifests himself in and through us. If it doesn’t fit into your narrow understanding of certain bible verses, it has no place in the world at all. I really regret scrolling down into the comment section. Thank you to all who contributed to the production of this video.

[@andrewcramer9200]

"Why do people believe the enneagram can offer them valuable insights? Maybe people feel naturally attracted to the mystic, the occult, esoteric, sorcery, and gossip. The mere exposure effect may explain a lot as well since the enneagram has found itself a niche in the credulous world of HR. Having been subjected to the enneagram, some people might start thinking it is a valid model for explaining personality. After all, most people trust other people claiming to be professionals. And then, of course, there is the Forer effect. Recognizing yourself in the test result, or in a horoscope description, can be a very powerful experience. Especially for the credulous." (Vermeren, A Skeptic's HR Dictionary, 2019). Another quote from the same book: "In 2001, Dutch professor emeritus of psychology Dr. Wim Hofstee (globally recognized expert in personality theory) sounded the alarm: “The Enneagram is no serious scientific model. It belongs to the confusing and rapidly changing field of lay-psychology: it seems to be a flourishing trade. A psychologist who is a member of the Dutch Institute of Psychologists who works with the Enneagram, risks getting a complaint based on Article III.3 of the professional Code of Ethics, which is about expertise. For non-psychologists such restrictions of course do not apply. But as the Enneagram industry is making statements about our personality - which is subject to scientific research and a profession - we must call a spade a spade: it is simply nonsense.”" Bible verses can not be understood narrowly, they say exactly what they mean, they are not open to your subjective interpretation. Deuteronomy 18 forbids divination. Colossians 2:8 warns against vain deceit, there is nothing more vain than personality tests. Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, etc. Considering Claudio Naranjo created the enneagram of personality through sorcery (he loved psychedelic drugs and spirit channeling), Jesus would be a hypocrite to endorse this system, it is not a narrow view, it is simply logical based on the plain text.

[@andrew5184]

Andrew Cramer “All models are wrong, but some are useful” is a quote attributed to George Box, often referenced by statisticians. The Enneagram is a useful model, with roots in Christianity, that does indeed offer helpful insights into the mystery of the human personality. No, it is not scientific. No more than the Bible is scientific. It’s mildly amusing that one who espouses such a dogmatic, narrow interpretation of scripture will align with science (or psychology) when it supports one’s efforts to dismiss something one fears as “dangerous” but will discredit the discipline if it undermines that interpretation of scripture; the simple, logical reading of the plain text, as it were.

[@drvondakaye]

I shared this with several family members. It will be interesting to discuss the results along with the video together.

[@dinnerconversationswithmar2965]

Thanks for joining us Dr. Vonda!

[@bmbutler2]

The enneagram is based in the occult new age. Please don't be deceived.

[@KyleieFabulous]

This has to be scripted I’m laughing so hard I love these crazy queens 😂🤣

[@fair2middlin]

Tests, surveys and batteries are just only indicators of current feelings and past performance. They can help one understand one's own self. They can be helpful because they can point out weaknesses which need to be found and improved. Only if the personality test questions include evil can be perceived as evil. Most personality tests are developed by non-Christians--get used to it.

[@sandyturner6493]

Oh I went and looked this stuff up. This does not line up with scripture.. This stuff is what Christians need to keep away from.. Not for me. Please you all need to drop this stuff. The devil is an angel of light...

[@KaySA1999]

Great episode about getting to know yourself and embracing who you are when all the masks come off.

[@dinnerconversationswithmar2965]

Thanks for joining us again, Karen!

[@bmbutler2]

The enneagram is based in the occult new age. Please don't be deceived.

[@andrewcramer9200]

There are no "masks" hiding the "true self". This is gnosticism given to Carl Jung by a "spirit guide" named Philemon who Jung claims referred to him (Jung) as Christ. Any typology-based "personality" test is subject to Jung's brand of erroneous philosophy. www.intjs.org/mbti-carl-jung-enneagram-dark-side/

[@johnrandall3496]

I find Mr. Morgan a bit patronizing toward Mark...Idk this doesn't sit well with me.

[@davidmaxwell2411]

Had to come back to this video, after listening to Lisa W on a podcast. She stated that her spirituality has matured and grown up, and there are more ways to God than through Jesus. Hmmm that raises some serious red flags with me. She definitely believes her own psycho babble.

[@maryjordan7724]

Where is Zig Ziglar when you need him ?!! I put this in the category of a "fad." People asking "what's your number ?" is reminiscent of asking "what's your sign ?" Kind of an outdated pick up line. Older people here will likely call this "new age" or even "occult" because of the enneagram figure. For me, it holds my interest about as much as a parlor game or a quiz on Facebook that determines what kind of potato you are. And, yes, I took the test. Whatever floats your boat.

[@andrewcramer9200]

It's not the geometric figure, it's the fact that "automatic writing", which is how the Enneagram of personality was developed by Claudio Naranjo along with heavy use of psychedelic drugs (very scientific lol), is a literal occult practice. Revelation mentions how people will ignore the end-times warning shots and continue practicing "sorcery" (or, y'know, occultic practices), as we see here.

[@andrewcramer9200]

I want to add, I did read something I hadn't realized before: the diagram itself is a circle that represents the cosmos, and the triangle inside is the triune God, so God is contained within the cosmos, which is blatant heresy 🤣 I don't understand how anyone can divorce this thing from its completely idiotic theories and origins. I can't state that in a nice way, it's all very overtly ridiculous from a Christian and scientific perspective. Source, with an assist from Marcia Montenegro's facebook page: worshiphisbeauty.wordpress.com/2020/05/09/the-theology-of-the-enneagram/?fbclid=IwAR21bNduoTZ3Nks8mpli2Iiu-YyKsEUi9-2zTmuoEs518zlqpKYiiNNSZrU

[@bobbieleab1470]

What are y’all eating?!!

[@leodwinak]

Isn't this a Scientology thing? L Ron hubbard? John Travolta Tom Cruise etc

[@andrewcramer9200]

Close enough 😂 equally absurd as Scientology anyway

[@Tralman1965]

This is New Age posing as Christianity.

[@kelleyniswonger3499]

This is really creeping me out. I can't watch it all.. Love you Mark, but this is not right

[@louonUT]

what is this exactly,,, Enneagram - what ? I think this is New Age . Does not seem right !

[@shambur1980]

The Enneagram is a personality typing system that looks at motivation as opposed to behavior (more commonly associated with Myers Briggs or Strengths Finders etc)

[@TMcConnaughhay]

This Enneagram can be very dangerous for Christians. You are allowing others to dictate who you are and how you should act. We don't need to spend time discovering ourselves, we as Christians need to die to ourselves and follow Christ! We need to be discovering who Christ is, not ourselves. Plus, I keep hearing the Lords name being taken in vain. I am worried about you Lisa....you were always a strong Christian but I hate to see you breaking away from traditional Bible Based Christianity! There are enough people falling away from God in this day we now live in, I don't want you to be swayed by every post modern false doctrine people are trying to normalize in todays Churches. Please don't walk away! This talk of energy levels and stuff is so new age. I only share all of this because this is NOT what true Christianity is all about.

[@gigieyre]

Hmm....I'm not liking this subject matter. This is sounding a little like the occult or very similar to things that mediums talk about. I've actually saw this in the Tarot world. Stay away from this stuff and just stick to God's holy word. Quit trying to use these things to analyze and try to do the work that the Bible has already done. Stop this!!! Stop referring people to this. When they look this stuff up, later on occult stuff will show up on their youtube feed. Danger Zone.

[@bobbieleab1470]

What are y’all eating?!!