Sohaib Saeed [II]: Faithful Muslim Scholarship | New Readings of the Qur’an?

In this interview I chat with Sheikh Dr. Sohaib Saeed, the founding director of the Ibn Ashur Centre. Dr. Saeed was trained in Tafsir at Al-Azhar University in Cairo and obtained his Ph.D. from SOAS. He is a translator of Fakhr Al-Din Razi and the author of "Exploring the Qur'an Through the Qur'an" and many other works on the Qur'an and Tafsir. Today we discuss Tafsir in general but also his recent article Q 2:260.
Ibn Ashur Centre: www.ibnashur.com/sohaibsaeed
The Ayah which we discuss in the video can be found here: www.corequran.com/2/#260
Dr. Sohaib Saeed's article can be found here: www.euppublishing.com/doi/ful...

[@kyzersmansion2487]

Amazing work being done here!! If possible could you invite Mufti abu layth to have a dialogue on alternative interpretations, it would really make for a fruitful discussion

[@magnus8704]

That would be interesting! Would also be cool to have people like Sh. Abdal Hakim Murad talking about spiritual themes in the Quran, the 99 names of God, the sufi tradition and the Quran and so on.

[@azhar4049]

Mufti gave a similar interpretation.... both of them are referencing Ibn Ashur's tafsir in my understanding. Monday night's session 95.

[@QuranicIslam]

Yes Mufti was the first person I myself heard this from. I latter added some other links/verses as backup in livestream No.22. That essentially it is all about God's "call" ... for that is how He will resurrect the dead, via a "call" as is said in other verses

[@azhar4049]

@@QuranicIslam Interesting, how do you interpret verse 259 re parable of the hamlet in ruins?

[@QuranicIslam]

@@azhar4049 I honestly haven't given that verse any considerable thought, so I don't have anything to say about it

[@adnanmahmutovic]

This was beautiful guys.

[@JeffWildZug]

Two scholars that I recently learned about. Great to see them working together.

[@milkydud]

Great humble discussion

[@dabbetul]

The birds had to be dead in order for it to be a miracle. Living birds would not have stayed at the mountains, they would have flown away, as birds do.

[@QuranicIslam]

57:47 but what do you know about what the Prophet believed about the verse? About pretty much the majority of verses? Since there are virtually no narrations of the Prophet expressing what he "believed" about any verses. Like he said ... you can only back- project what you think is correct onto the Prophet (though I personally think one shouldn't do that)

[@IbnAshur]

Agree - I was just clarifying my conception of tafsir which seeks after the original, intended meaning. If we’re right to support what Abu Muslim said, do we think he was the first to understand 2:260 that way? There may be many who already did, but we just don’t have it stated and recorded. But I have to assume that the Prophet ﷺ is the first of those, because nobody could understand the Quran better than he. We may well be claiming to have got the point of this verse while many great scholars missed it, but there is a line to be drawn somewhere. ~SS

[@cookiemonster7514]

Syro Aramaic Koran by Christoph Luxenberg explains mysterious letters Gabriel Sawma is also an expert in semitic languages These ppl know what the koran translation should be. The channel Arab scholars are all at risk of being charged with apostasy and blasphemy which compromises their work.

[@iqbalswati4786]

Very knowledgeable and smart personality. With due respect jabril are you a Muslim?

[@jamesgames7841]

He comes from an Arab Christian family.

[@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156]

​@@jamesgames7841 No! I think he said his father was a lapsed Lebanese Muslim, certainly not a Christian!

[@Jan_von_Gratschoff]

Two words that do not belong together are "Scholarship" and "Faithful". By definition "faith" is belief in something without proper evidence.

[@IbnAshur]

And what’s your evidence that that’s the definition 😂

[@JeffWildZug]

First interview - kzbin.info/www/bejne/n2O1fWmtbaZlg5Ysi=1cqED1DLaBkqSmT-

[@azhar4049]

Could it be that there was a dialog happening with Jews/Christians in the community ?around/including Genesis 15? and what was eventually recorded of the dialog in the Uthmanic Codex was the part with: 1. God correcting a part of Genesis 15...excluding cutting/killing birds as outlined by Abu Muslim (meaning the story present in popular imagination at the time of the historical event amongst the Jews/Christians was incorrect). or 2. God appropriating the ahistorical Genesis 15 narrative, and then retelling it but intentionally carrying both meanings (cutting or not cutting birds). Ultimately to teach some people amongst the Jews of the revelatory community that perhaps did not believe in any form of life after death that there would be a life after death? Assuming Jews with such beliefs (no "after-life" like some of the pagans) could have existed at that time/local.

[@azhar4049]

If I understand correctly, Sh. Saeed takes the parable of the Hamlet in Ruins literally? That is God un-alived someone physically and resurrected them after 100 years (a supernatural phenomena as he calls it) ? If yes, it would make more sense from that perspective the birds were killed as it would be consistent with that line of interpretation. Unless he views the parable as allegorical or something happening in the "imaginal", that is the person had a vision where they were un-alived and re-alived after 100 years, I don't see what the point is in giving this an interpretation beyond literal cutting/killing birds.

[@JamshidRowshan]

Hello.

[@kschacherer92]

hi jamshid!

[@MuftiMasala]

Goodbye

[@inquisitivemind007]

I'd like to thank Sohaib for translating all the juicy bits of Tafsir al-Razi p304 and Suyuti Itqan p55 and p184.

[@rsalim6082]

Dr. Sohaib Saeed should be adressed with the respect that he deserves, He is an accredited scholar of the Holy Qur'an, Calling him by his first name lacks courtesy and is disrespectful, unless someone who is a personal friend and addressing him in an informal setting.

[@inquisitivemind007]

@@rsalim6082 he definitely deserves respect and praise 👏🏼 for giving us all the ammunition we need to show the world 🌎 that the Quran is a man made filled with errors book 📖 I'm looking forward to shaking his hand.

[@joefilter2923]

@@inquisitivemind007 Such a fun name. Are you in charge of an inquisition?

[@seeki3315]

logic of al lah 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10=55 quran 2;106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? 8.5 is similar and better than 8 then '1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8.5+9+10=55' is not true anymore al lah need quran 2.0 s3;93 All food was lawful to the Children of Israel except what Israel had made unlawful to himself before the Torah was revealed. Say, [O Muhammad], "So bring the Torah and recite it, if you should be truthful." You musilms recite al lah's torah? muslim lost al lah's torah and isa's injil. how dare you muslim! you should be truthful!

[@ahmedhashim2652]

Greetings to all. With all due respect Mr Reynolds but it’s time like other Quranic scholars do to recognize that the Quran is a human effort and that you should start first and foremost by removing the devine element with your guests. Thank you.

[@stevesmith4901]

How would anybody prove the non-existence of the divine authorship of the Quran? One could argue for the existence of the divine element in the Quran, but non-existence? It would be like asking to prove the non-existence of the supernatural by natural empirical means. It can't be done.

[@vim_and_vigor]

​​​​​@@stevesmith4901как минимум тот факт, что коран изобилует научными и историческими неточностями, а также содержит в себе истории из рукотворных сочинений, ясно даёт понять здравомыслящему человеку, что ни о каком "божественном происхождении" речи не идёт.

[@user-kw2yo6wi3v]

Arabic and greek.

[@thenun1846]

Its quite fascinating that the Qur'an, claimed to be the word of god, is so dependant on the interpretations of men

[@rameezabid356]

Vast majority of it is actually quite self explanatory, so your assessment would be incorrect.

[@thenun1846]

@@rameezabid356 if your claim was true, we wouldn't need tafsirs in the first place The Quran by itself is insufficient

[@jamesgames7841]

This speaks more to the nature of reality / the world than anything about the Qu'ran / God / etc. Bottom line is, people are at different capacities and abilities. Not everyone can read a book--any book--and glean all the nuances and meanings (et. al.) present. Are you telling me if a half-literate street sweeper and a college professor both read Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment," that they'd give a similar explanation of it? That they would understand it on the same level? Of course not. But this doesn't mean "Crime and Punishment" isn't a brilliant book written by a clear-thinking, brilliant mind. The fact that different types of readers have different "levels" of understanding says nothing negative about the book or the author. The Qu'ran, likewise, is for all people... this includes laborers, illiterates, low I.Q... but also literate people, philosophers, mystics, the very intelligent... and they all understand it on different levels and from their own perspectives. These differences add more vibrancy to the tradition, and make it dynamic... It doesn't say anything negative about the Qu'ran at all that this is the case.

[@thenun1846]

@@jamesgames7841 thanks for your personal opinion. The creativity that comes with justifying the Qurans shortcomings are really amusing. The Quran (I'll speak particularly in reference to the Hafs version of the Quran) is supposed to be written by god himself. So in your example, what would have been impressive is if the semi illiterate, understood it the exact same way as a high level philosopher. But we see many disagreements amongst even the high level scholars, let alone the laymen. You're attempting to turn a bug into a feature but the issue is that Islamic law is derived from the Quran (primarily), I can ask you a simple question to demonstrate the opposing contradictory views within the Hafs version of the Quran For example, is it halal to engage in intercourse with prepubescent girls?

[@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156]

​@thenun1846 If you are not A BUG, then show me word by word of your choice of Aayat that says literally "it is ḥalaal to engage in intercourse with prepubescent girls"?!? Otherwise, A BUG 🐛 IS NOT ONLY NOT COMPARABLE, BUT MUCH BETTER THAN YOU! Worse still you named yourself after the ᶜArabic consonant NUUN in the first Aayat of the Suuratu-lQalami of the Qur’aan, why after something you despise?! The answer is YOU DESPISE YOU!

[@user-kw2yo6wi3v]

Nine year old is a child and to young.

[@DainDadgama]

How is this disgusting comment even related to the video take your filth elsewhere tis channel is for academic discussion

[@seanrodrigues12]

This was boring. Why do we care about the birds again?

[@jma7600]

Perhaps the divine voice in the Qur’anic text could not predict that one day 90% of his followers would not be Arabic speakers?

[@MilesLuwa]

A non Arabic quran to an Arab audience how would that make sense?

[@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156]

​​​​​​@@MilesLuwa You are right! ᶜArabic Tongue = Lisaan ᶜArabi! = physical organ that communicates to others (members of the same biological origin, or speak the same Tongue; by the same manner, part of the bigger biological origin who can trace the same biological origin, meaning that the ᶜArabic Tongue in comparison to its Afro-Asiatic through out-of-Africa is the only one born outside of Africa but close to home Africa = duality as one! = Duality = symbolism singularity in the plurality = Qur’aan = Lisaan ᶜArabi Mubiin) = Simplicity and Complexity is inseparable one! The Created humanity, (from communication point of view) from The Created Qur’aan, same as Lisaan ᶜArabi Mubiin for humanity’s guidance to their Creator of all: Allaah (< Al-Ilaah) / Ar-Raḥmaan (The Merciful < Ar-Raḥmat < triliteral root-pattern R-Ḥ-M)! The difficulty is within the humanity’s duality (Simplicity and Complexity < Banuu-Israaʼiil and Banuu-Aadam) meaning difficulty in the Self-Learning (the delusion of the appearances deceive us)! Humanity’s dilemma is Humanity!

[@jma7600]

@@MilesLuwa So you agree then that this was a book targeting a certain localised group and not necessarily a universal religion.

[@rameezabid356]

The Arabic language has a huge influence in non-arab languages of Muslim lands. This happened because of the spread of Islam and Quran. The message of the Quran and its meaning has been transmitted and spread throughout the Muslim world even those who do not know Arabic. There are no such predictions in the quran, it is just a book of the message that God wants the creation to know. Also it clearly targets explicitly all of mankind in its language.

[@samantarmaxammadsaciid5156]

@jma7600 The Qur’aan, It's for both the localised and the universal! You are reading your wishful anti-Self and imposing it onto the Qur’aan!