Sean Anthony & Gabriel Said Reynolds [1]: Muhammad, the Caliphs, Variant Qur'ans, and Orientalism

This video part one of a two-part series where I sit down in person with Dr. Sean Anthony (part two coming next time). In this video we discuss many very interesting and important topics in Islamic Studies. We begin with the validity of the Uthmanic collection stemming from a number of hadith from Ibn Shihab al Zuhri, we then discuss the case of two suras found in Ubayy ibn Ka'ab's codex which are not found in Uthman's mushaf but are used in Muslim prayer. We move on from there to talk about companion codices in general and what the Sana palimpsest tells us about the phenomenon of companion codices. We finish with a discussion on Orientalism and some prominent figures in the western study of Islam including Fred M. Donner and the late Patricia Crone.
Dr. Sean Anthony. Dr. Anthony is Professor of Near Eastern Languages and Cultures at The Ohio State University. Prior to this he was an Andrew Mellon Fellow at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton NJ and an Assistant Professor in the Department of History at the University of Oregon. Dr. Anthony got his A.M. and Ph.D. from the University of Chicago in Near Eastern Languages and Cultures, specializing in Islamic Thought and Early Islamic History. He is the author of many academic articles and books, his most recent book "Muhammad and the Empires of Faith" has already become quite popular within Islamic Studies.
You can find Sean's article on the two suras of Ubayy's codex here: www.academia.edu/40869286/Two...

[@Dracmont]

wow, nice setup professor reynolds.

[@mutamirmukhzani1240]

Noice upgrade indeed

[@ALLHEART_]

lmao yeah no one Mr. academic Zoom call

[@shwanshawais4370]

You are growing something great Professor Reynolds.

[@stevesmith4901]

You've got a whole studio now. Congrats!

[@GaaraNous]

This is so good that we have both profs. 🎉

[@MythVisionPodcast]

I'm extremely impressed with your quality set up Dr. Reynolds & of course the amazing guest Dr. Anthony!

[@MuftiMasala]

Hater

[@SzTz100]

Nice setup.

[@howmanybeansmakefive]

Congrats on the new setup Professor! Great to see Prof Anthony to kick it off

[@itsfreeworld1]

This is awesome.

[@Honestcritic79]

Currently reading his book. Bit of a tough read, more academic than casual, but lots of info packed in there, love the objectivity and love the honesty, some historians love to go against the norm just for the sake of going against the norm, but he admits, yes, some of the traditions are actually true and we have to learn from that.

[@Tewhill357]

I know, game has been stepped UP!

[@dialectic2869]

I left rilgion years ago, I was a muslim, sociology and anthropology of rilgion helped me a lot to understand the world better, I think having some guests from these fields is a great idea for the channel, great content as always

[@Omzzz85]

Hello gentlemen. Good to see you both doing well and thank you for sharing this video. Some great points were brought up, and as a Muslim viewer, you weren't offensive in any way. Rather you both were respectable and this conversation was inspirational. The topic about the five surahs is interesting. I recall them being three; Fatiha, Falaq, and An Nas. Looking at Al-Khal and Al-Hafd, they don't really seem to suit the Quranic pattern, but more like duaa (supplications). We don't have any surah that starts with allahumma (O Allah), but we have countless of duaas that do. (Nasai 402, Bukhari 6399, ibn majah 773) This list of duaas goes on extensively, and please keep in mind that Muslims take these duaas as revelation too, if confirmed going back to the Prophet. Even Fatiha, Falaq or Nas aren't fully in line with the supplications style we find in hadith. We do find the word Allahumma five times in the Quran, but never in the style of hadith. Not to dwell on this, but last point, the notion of them using those words found in al-khal and al-hafd during prayer is normal. If you view the live Mecca prayer on youtube during Ramadan (now a days) for example, you'll see how the one leading the prayer will also add a supplication within the end of the prayer, which would rhyme and start with allahumma just like these proposed surahs. But either way quite interesting topic of discussion. As a believer of course, it was great to hear Dr. Anthony say that he finds the manuscripts strikingly uniformed, not that his validation is needed, but I would like to ask Dr. Anthony if the majority of the variants that we find at the bottom layer of the sanaa script could be attributed to scribal errors and memory lapses by mixing up Allah's names at the end of ayahs? Thanks again Dr. Reynolds, and I look forward to the next part of the talk.

[@kschacherer92]

Very cool, can't wait to see this channel explode

[@Days6281]

I love the new format.

[@dunharrowfarm7815]

Fantastic conversation!

[@Zazamarkle]

Wow to the studio, this channel is gonna be so big so many potential

[@imzaahid]

Nice setup, Full podcast vibe.

[@AbdulHannanAbdulMatheen]

👏🙂 Awesome video.

[@jimbob5848]

To understand and to know is our journey, our vocation, methinks. Good work. Really enjoyed your comments on Richard Burton and comments on Edward Said shook up my understandings after living in Beirut before the Civil War. Thanks.

[@tahaabdollahi2567]

Salam dear professor, great as always. Happy new setting! It's really beautiful. It would be quite perfect if you have an interview with Dr. Karimi-nia concerning Razavi codex as well.

[@ZaczacK54]

Nice studio professor

[@fay1298]

Thank you Professor Reynolds. I look forward to reading some of the works of Sean Anthony. I’ve listened to most of his interviews on KZbin. Just a comment regarding Edward Said, I think some people would agree that his book on Orientalism was influenced by the events of 1948 and the displacement of the Palestinian people, which hurt him immensely.

[@momo19991]

I love this channel! Thank you for providing this academic scholarship to the public.

[@cdo...49283]

What books are both of you working on next?

[@LongerLasting]

Seems like AI/ML computer vision/OCR techniques could help immensely in deciphering these palimpsests. Similar techniques were used for the Antikythera mechanism.

[@irreview]

Masha'allah to the new studio setup

[@sidneysentell2510]

Professor Anthony’s book “Muhammad and the Empires of Faith” is recommended. If you are like me you will need an English dictionary. Professor Anthony’s English vocabulary is expansive.

[@arta.xshaca]

Very impressive vocab, narration and book

[@user-sj6kh4tb9t]

A third mistake I think Sean made was the usual claim by most orientalists that most Americans f the traditions of Abu Bakr’s compilation of the Quran was only through Al Zuhri We actually have another tradition by Urwah without Al Zuhri in the Chain نقرا من كتاب المصاحف لابن ابي داود السجستاني الجزء الاول باب جمع ابي بكر رضي الله عنه المصحف ((حَدَّثَنا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الطَّاهِرِ قَالَ: أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ وَهْبٍ، أَخْبَرَنِي ابْنُ أَبِي الزِّنَادِ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ: لَمَّا اسْتَحَرَّ الْقَتْلُ بِالْقُرَّاءِ يَوْمَئِذٍ فَرَقَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ عَلَى الْقُرْآنِ أَنْ يَضِيعَ فَقَالَ لِعُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ وَلِزَيْدِ بْنِ ثَابِتٍ: «اقْعُدُوا عَلَى بَابِ الْمَسْجِدِ فَمَنْ جَاءَكُمَا بِشَاهِدَيْنِ عَلَى شَيْءٍ مِنْ كِتَابِ اللَّهِ فَاكْتُبَاهُ»)) There is another tradition by Ali but here he uses the word جمع نقرا من المصاحف لابن ابي داود السجستاني الجزء الاول باب جمع ابي بكر رضي الله عنه المصحف (( حَدَّثَنَا حَدَّثَنَا عُمَرُ بْنُ شَبَّةَ ، قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو أَحْمَدَ الزُّبَيْرِيُّ ، قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ ، عَنِ السُّدِّيِّ ، عَنْ عَبْدِ خَيْرٍ ، عَنْ عَلِيٍّ ، قَالَ : " أَعْظَمُ النَّاسِ أَجْرًا فِي الْمَصَاحِفِ أَبُو بَكْرٍ ، فَإِنَّهُ أَوَّلُ مَنْ جَمَعَ بَيْنَ اللَّوْحَيْنِ " .)) A third tradition ( yet the chain is weak and doubtful) attributed to Ubay ( very doubtful) المصاحف لابن ابي داود السجستاني باب جمع ابي بكر الصديق رضي الله عنه حَدَّثَنا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ النُّعْمَانِ قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدٌ قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو جَعْفَرٍ، عَنِ الرَّبِيعِ، عَنْ أَبِي الْعَالِيَةِ، أَنَّهُمْ جَمَعُوا الْقُرْآنَ فِي مُصْحَفٍ فِي خِلَافَةِ أَبِي بَكْرٍ الصِّدِّيقِ، فَكَانَ رِجَالٌ يَكْتُبُونَ وَيُمْلِي عَلَيْهِمْ أُبَيُّ بْنُ كَعْبٍ، فَلَمَّا انْتَهَوْا إِلَى هَذِهِ الْآيَةِ مِنْ سُورَةِ بَرَاءَةَ: {ثُمَّ انْصَرَفُوا صَرْفَ اللَّهُ قُلُوبَهُمْ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لَا يَفْقَهُونَ} [التوبة: ١٢٧] فَظَنُّوا أَنَّ هَذَا آخِرُ مَا أُنْزِلَ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ فَقَالَ أُبَيٌّ: إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَدْ " أَقْرَأَنِي بَعْدَهُنَّ آيَتَيْنِ: {لَقَدْ جَاءَكُمْ رَسُولٌ مِنْ أَنْفُسِكُمْ عَزِيزٌ عَلَيْهِ مَا عَنِتُّمْ حَرِيصٌ عَلَيْكُمْ بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ رَءُوفٌ رَحِيمٌ، فَإِنْ تَوَلَّوْا فَقُلْ حَسْبِيَ اللَّهُ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا هُوَ عَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلْتُ وَهُوَ رَبُّ الْعَرْشِ الْعَظِيمِ} " قَالَ ⦗٥٧⦘: فَهَذَا آخِرُ مَا أُنْزِلَ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ فَخُتِمَ الْأَمْرُ بِمَا فُتِحَ بِهِ لِقَوْلِ اللَّهِ جَلَّ ثَنَاؤُهُ: {وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ قَبْلِكَ مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا نُوحِي إِلَيْهِ أَنَّهُ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا أَنَا فَاعْبُدُونِ} [الأنبياء: ٢٥] ابو جعفر in the chain has been negatively scrutinized by the scholars of Hadith

[@homer1273]

The Hadith were through Zuhri but not the Quran. The Quran was passed down by the whole community unlike Hadith which were passed down in one on one chains of narrators.

[@mohamedfaixan]

Masha Allah for the set-up Dr. Reynolds. Keep up the work 🎉

[@PolarCountry]

WAO Studio ❤

[@MAYBE673]

Where is the part 2 to this!!

[@ExploringtheQuranandtheBible]

coming very soon :)

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

We should make a poll. Who is more handsome? Professor Reynolds or Professor Anthony?

[@arbitrarium7336]

Good point, but perhaps we could ponder on the symbolism of the not- burning three candles next to the Quran , Is it a Christian subliminal message ?

[@ahmadjuwayni6256]

They are your two Sheikhul Islam's... both must be equally handsome in your eyes!

[@mohamedfaixan]

@@ahmadjuwayni6256 bro you have no idea. I think you should read Qur'an with translation

[@helman41]

no one cares?

[@arbitrarium7336]

@@ahmadjuwayni6256 Does the average Muslim not consider these two as two Kafir ?

[@user-sj6kh4tb9t]

Another point is Sean’s mistake in alluding that it may have been in the mushaf of Ali which is false for multiple reasons 1. Ali himself declared that he supported what Uthman did and rebuked those in Kufa who called him شقاق المصاحف This is narrated by subways ibn gaflah كتاب المصاحف لابن أبي داود السجستاني رحمه الله باب جمع عثمان القرآن في المصحف نقرأ قال أبو داود: وحدثنا محمد بن أبان الجعفي سمعه، من علقمة بن مرثد وحديث محمد أتم عن عقبة بن جرول الحضرمي قال: لما خرج المختار كنا هذا الحي من حضرموت أول من يسرع إليه،، فأتانا سويد بن غفلة الجعفي فقال: إن لكم علي حقا وإن لكم جوارا، وإن لكم قرابة، والله لا أحدثكم اليوم إلا شيئا سمعته من المختار، أقبلت من مكة وإني لأسير إذ غمزني غامز من خلفي، فإذا المختار فقال لي: يا شيخ ما بقي في قلبك من حب ذلك الرجل ؟ يعني عليا، قلت: إني أشهد الله أني أحبه بسمعي وقلبي وبصري ولساني، قال: ولكني أشهد الله أني أبغضه بقلبي وسمعي وبصري ولساني، قال: قلت: أبيت والله إلا تثبيطا عن آل محمد، وترثيثا في إحراق المصاحف، أو قال حراق، هو أحدهما يشك أبو داود، فقال سويد : والله لا أحدثكم إلا شيئا سمعته من علي بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه سمعته يقول: " يا أيها الناس، لا تغلوا في عثمان ولا تقولوا له إلا خيرا أو قولوا له خيرا في المصاحف وإحراق المصاحف، فوالله ما فعل الذي فعل في المصاحف إلا عن ملأ منا جميعا ....قال: قال علي: " والله لو وليت لفعلت مثل الذي فعل و صححه الدكتور محب الدين واعظ محقق كتاب المصاحف في هامش الصفحة 206: (( إسناده : صحيح )) 2. The two surahs in almost Al narrations were mentioned by Ali as a prayer not as verses قنوت not قران مصنف ابن ابي شيبة كتاب الدعاء باب ما يدعو به في قنوت الفجر حَدَّثَنَا وَكِيعٌ ، قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ ، عَنْ حَبِيبِ بْنِ أَبِي ثَابِتٍ ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الْمَلِكِ بْنِ سُوَيْدٍ الْكَاهِلِيِّ ، أَنَّ عَلِيًّا قَنَتَ فِي الْفَجْرِ بِهَاتَيْنِ #السُّورَتَيْنِ : اللَّهُمَّ إِنَّا نَسْتَعِينُكَ وَنَسْتَغْفِرُكَ وَنُثْنِي عَلَيْكَ الْخَيْرَ ، وَلَا نَكْفُرُ ، وَنَخْلَعُ وَنَتْرُكُ مَنْ يَفْجُرُكَ ، اللَّهُمَّ إِيَّاكَ نَعْبُدُ وَلَكَ نُصَلِّي وَنَسْجُدُ ، وَإِلَيْكَ نَسْعَى وَنَحْفِدُ نَرْجُو رَحْمَتَكَ ، وَنَخْشَى عَذَابَكَ ، إِنَّ عَذَابَكَ الْجِدَّ بِالْكُفَّارِ مُلْحِقٌ As opposed to when reported by Ubay it is stated not as Qunut قنوت but Qiraa’ قراءة مصنف بن ابي شيبة كتاب الدعاء باب ما يدعو به في قنوت الفجر حدثنا وكيع قال حدثنا جعفر بن برقان عن ميمون بن مهران قال : في #قراءة أبي بن كعب : اللهم إنا نستعينك ونستغفرك ونثني عليك الخير ولا نكفرك ، ونخلع ونترك من يفجرك ، اللهم إياك نعبد ، ولك نصلي ونسجد ، وإليك نسعى ونحفد ، ونرجو رحمتك ونخشى عذابك إن عذابك بالكافرين ملحق 3. Ali, reading as traced by Asim was actually similar to zayd’s reading except for the word taut which is read by zayd tabuh تابوه نقرا من جامع البيان للداني رحمه الله الجزء الاول ((٥٣٧ - وحدثنا أبو الفتح، قال: حدثنا أبو طاهر، قال: حدثنا إبراهيم، قال حدثنا عبد الصمد بن محمد، قالوا : حدثنا عمرو بن الصباح، عن حفص بن سليمان، عن عاصم، عن أبي عبد الرحمن السلمي، عن علي بن أبي طالب، وذكر عاصم: أنه لم يخالف أبا عبد الرحمن في شيء من قراءته، وأن أبا عبد الرحمن لم يخالف عليا في شيء من قراءته، وأن أبا عبد الرحمن قال: كنت ألقى زيد بن ثابت في الموسم، فأجمع له أحرف علي بن أبي طالب، وأسأله عنهم، فما اختلفا إلا في سورة البقرة أن يأتيكم التابوت فقال علي: بالتاء، وقال زيد: بالهاء. لفظ الحديث للعينوني عبد الصمد بن محمد )) 4. As reported by ibn serene the only one who put this in his mushaf was Ubay ibn Kaab تاريخ المدينة لابن شبة الجزء الثالث باب كتابة القران و جمعه ((حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْأَعْلَى، قَالَ: حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامٌ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدٍ: «أَنَّ أُبَيَّ بْنَ كَعْبٍ كَتَبَهُنَّ فِي مُصْحَفِهِ خَمْسَهُنَّ، أُمَّ الْكِتَابِ، وَالْمُعَوِّذَتَيْنِ، وَالسُّورَتَيْنِ، وَتَرَكَهُنَّ ابْنُ مَسْعُودٍ كُلَّهُنَّ، وَكَتَبَ ابْنُ عَفَّانَ فَاتِحَةَ الْكِتَابِ، وَالْمُعَوِّذَتَيْنِ، وَتَرَكَ السُّورَتَيْنِ، وَعَلَى مَا كَتَبَهُ عُمَرُ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ مَصَاحِفُ أَهْلِ الْإِسْلَامِ، فَأَمَّا مَا سِوَى ذَلِكَ فَمُطَّرَحٌ ⦗١٠١٠⦘، وَلَوْ قَرَأَ غَيْرَ مَا فِي مَصَاحِفِهِمْ قَارِئٌ فِي الصَّلَاةِ أَوْ جَحَدَ شَيْئًا مِنْهَا اسْتَحَلُّوا دَمَهُ بَعْدَ أَنْ يَكُونَ يَدِينُ بِهِ»))

[@markorbit4752]

Did Uthman codify his copy in the 7 ahruf?

[@thenun1846]

Excellent set up doctor. As an ex Muslim i thoroughly enjoy your videos and lots of my ex Muslim family and friends love your content

[@Wully02]

Interesting, I am an ex Christian and convert to Islam and I also love his content.

[@thenun1846]

@@Wully02 that is interesting indeed. Especially since Islam is highly dependant on Christianity as without the bible, there wouldn't be a Qur'an I'm interested to know how they got you? Was it the "perfect preservation", scientific miracles or "one god" pitch ?

[@Wully02]

@@thenun1846 I was convinced of the unity of God and the humanity of Jesus by the Bible itself, nowhere does the Bible teach a trinity, and the few verses which seem to say Jesus is a god are vague and need to be interpreted through the clear verses which clearly state his non-divinity which are close by the seeming divinity ones.

[@thenun1846]

@@Wully02 ah ok they went with that angle. Yea I don't disagree that there are significant issues in the bible, but the authors of the Quran carried over many of these issues into the Quran. Anyway I'm not trying to "deconvert"you, I was interested in which technique was used to get you on board as I used to use many of these techniques when I was a Muslim myself

[@Wully02]

Furthermore there are many prophecies of Muhammad in the Bible, such as Jesus sending a second Advocate of the same kind as he is, Ishmael getting the same promise as Issac about becoming a great nation and God hearing him, dwelling in the face of his brothers, and being called a wild-donkey of a man (a creature closely associated with God and with prophets), Moses prophesying a third figure coming from mount Pharan, which Eusebius and Jerome believed to be located south of Nabatean Arabia, John the Baptist talking about a third eschatological figure he refers to as the Prophet, Daniel talking about a seal of prophets coming alongside the Messiah, and many more.

[@zeusbeam8664]

😍👍

[@arbitrarium7336]

Is there an acount of historical evidence that Allah approved of the codification ? If not ,is this codification not manmade ?

[@MCXM111]

Never knew that famous Edward Gibbon converted to Islam. Are they talking about the historian who wrote about decline of the Roman empire?

[@helman41]

Not a chance. Here's what Gibbon said about islam: "In the spirit of enthusiasm or vanity, the prophet [Muhammad] rests the truth of his mission on the merit of his book; audaciously challenges both men and angels to imitate the beauties of a single page; and presumes to assert that God alone could dictate this incomparable performance. This argument is most powerfully addressed to a devout Arabian, whose mind is attuned to faith and rapture; whose ear is delighted by the music of sounds; and whose ignorance is incapable of comparing the productions of human genius... If the composition of the Koran exceed the faculties of a man to what superior intelligence should we ascribe the Iliad of Homer, or the Philippics of Demosthenes?" "Instead of a perpetual and perfect measure of the divine will, the fragments of the Koran were produced at the discretion of Mahomet; each revelation is suited to the emergencies of his policy or passion; and all contradiction is removed by the saving maxim, that any text of Scripture is abrogated or modified by any subsequent passage."

[@loveroflife1914]

@@helman41 damn, what a quote.

[@tjbergren]

Am looking forward to this interview but I had to pause in the first moments to say that I listen with an additional layer of skepticism when a professor or interviewee begins with something akin to “According to the traditions…” such as Prof. Anthony did. Here we go…!

[@gk-qf9hv]

So Osman had been a Khelif for 12 years, and no mention of him what so ever in history? I'm talking king about real history, mind you, not about 1001 night -like stories.

[@abuukarata9653]

Mention by who?

[@gk-qf9hv]

@@abuukarata9653 history. Real history.

[@SuhailAnwar-ug8lc]

Another great lecture - thanks I often think that why has this channel not got the viewership that it deserves ? One possible reason is Dr Reynolds own immense knowledge and presuppositions. If you can just interview the guest as a novice yourself, and let them clarify matters in his/ her own words the interaction can be far more efficient and probably popular.

[@Abu_AbdulAhad]

Anyone who watches this playlist in it's entirety, and understands the terminologies, will have no doubt regarding the preservation of the Qur'an. kzbin.info/aero/PL2dRQaGGWZOCmQU0I0kWYb-_LNxqD0qnE&si=HTB_NucYximm1Ql4

[@smrd2d14]

The period of the Messenger and the Companions is an unknown period to us (except for what came in the Qur’an) because during the time of the Messenger there was no historian to record and we did not obtain an inscription or document from the same time... All our information (which is fictitious) came a century or two after the death of the Messenger. Sean Anthony's ignorance and the likes want the Qur’an to be in line with the tradition, therefore they are confused and couldn't think properly and this is because the effect of the tradition on their mind. A lie said to you that those who memorized and transmitted the hadith were the ones who memorized and transmitted the Qur’an... You believed this lie and did not believe the word of God. Another lie it said, if the Companions had not collected the Qur’an, it would have been lost! 3:188 "and like to be praised for what they did not do" We do not know anything about the people of the Messenger and his companions except what the Qur’an mentioned only. Don’t you know that God is the one who preserves the Qur’an and not the people. 75:17 "Indeed, upon Us is its collection [in your heart] and [to make possible] its recitation." Note the word (Us). 15:9 "Indeed, it is We who sent down the message [the Qur’ān], and indeed, We will be its guardian." Note the word (We). 41:42 "Falsehood cannot approach it from before it or from behind it; [it is] a revelation from a [Lord who is] Wise and Praiseworthy." A divine law that conquers and prevents every creature from distorting. 18:27 "And recite, [O Muḥammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord. There is no changer of His words" Divine law forbids distortion. 80:11 "No! Indeed, they [these verses] are a reminder;" 80:12 "So whoever wills may remember it." 80:13 "[It is recorded] in honored sheets," 80:14 "Exalted and purified," 80:15 "[Carried] by the hands of messenger-angels," 80:16 "Noble and dutiful." 56:77 "Indeed, it is a noble Qur’ān." 56:78 "In a Register well-protected;" 56:79 "None touch it except the purified [the angels]." 56:80 "[It is] a revelation from the Lord of the worlds." Clear texts that the Qur’an can't be reached and can't be receive distortion. The Qur'an has nothing to do with humans. The Qur’an is preserved by God, and there is no income for anyone but God. Now. As far for the question HOW? we cannot know. The Qur’an is a divine work. God's work we cannot know (how). As for people's work (such as Bukhari's trivial book, car, or house), yes, we can know how. For example; (Moses divided the sea) or (He turned the staff into a serpent)... So Moses asked himself (How)... He will tell you, I don’t know. Or, for example, (Jesus revived the dead), so you asked him (how), O Jesus... He will say, I don’t know. Another example...we know that God created the cat...and we know for sure that cats exist... but ask all the specialized scholars (how) can we make a cat like it? ...they won't be able to... they don't even know the specific details regarding the process of creation... let alone make one. Likewise, the Qur’an is God’s work. No one knows (how) God preserved the Qur’an and it has remained with us to this day. (How) if this is related to a work that God does... Minds are perplexed about it... And (How) God gave us the Qur'an... It is the same (How) in the following questions... (How) God gave us the eye, the ear, the lips, the tongue...or (how) God created the heavens and earth and everything between them. The rational person realizes that the (how) of this cannot be comprehended by the minds. Therefore, he believes in the word of God, that God gave him the Qur’an with His knowledge and ability. God, who is the most truthful of those who speak, says that He has taken care of everything regarding the Qur’an... This is not the concern of humans nor their work. This is the work of God and nothing else... As for us, we only have to read this Qur’an and act upon it.

[@Kassalawy56789]

Thank you brother, well put❤❤❤ Thanks God for Islam & the Quran

[@jawhardawood7667]

Great scholarly discussion. I expected Prof. Anthony to talk about the difficulty of reading the Sanaa Palimpsest. The lower text is barely visible and the decipherment is essentially based on conjectures. In his excellent study, Sadeghi heavily relies on conjectures and literary sources. For instance in Q 19:24, he inserts the word malak (ملَك) even though there is absolutely nothing in the text and no trace of any text visible whatsoever. He himself admits that it is a conjectural reading. But where did he get the word ملك from? He got it from the exegetical sources. This type of subjective reading casts a thick cloud of doubt upon the reliability of the Palimpsest as a source that can tell us something about the so-called Ur-Qur’an. Moreover, in numerous instances, the Palimpsest contains either clear scribal errors or contains, whenever it is reasonably legible, words that are not compatible with the diction of the Qur’an. For example, in Q 19:27, the lower text reads, (لقد أتيتِ شيئًا فريًّا). The Qur’anic diction does not accept the verb (أتيتِ) in this position, for we have in Q 19:89, (لقد جئتم شيئًا إدًّا). This parallel verse shows that (جئتِ) is the right word that is compatible with the diction of the Qur’an. Unfortunately, the researchers have not paid enough attention to such parallels that would help us eliminate variants that do not belong to the diction of the Qur’an.

[@paulthomas281]

@jawhardawood7667 Do you know how much of the Sanaa Palimpsest is the current Qur'an: is it 50%, 60%? Any idea? Thank you.

[@jawhardawood7667]

Yes, it is about 40% of the Qur’an most of which is barely visible. The reconstruction of the lower text largely depends upon the personal judgement of the researcher who is heavily informed by traditional sources, which are in turn hardly reliable.

[@cdo...49283]

Source?

[@McCainenl]

Tbf around 41:00 he does mention a couple times that it is extremely hard to read even with current technology

[@JohnGeometresMaximos]

14:50 can't make this out. illiterate or literate ??? 🙄 afaik they were illiterate.

[@stephenconnolly1830]

Do these two professors actually know the definition of what constitutes a rightly guided caliph (to be fair, this critique applies to most Muslims as well)? Only a fool would call Uthman the first of the Ummayyads. Other stupidity on display in this discussion includes the idea the first as well as the last chapters of the Qur'an did not belong there because one companion had his own personal jottings which didn't include these. Does this claim make sense? How could such an obviously motivated community not know which chapters constituted the beginning and ending chapters of their holiest scripture? These are chapters that a 3 year old can memorise and recite. As for the claim of missing a chapter or elements not included which were part of chapter al-Ahzab, how could the rest of the Prophet's companions and community agree on a Qur'an which was defective in this sense? As the expression goes, one swallow does not the summer make. And yet the entire Shi'a community accept the Uthmanic recension of the Qur'an and refer to it in their own liturgy, so it is clear even the movement most averse to those they accuse of usurping the leadership of the Muslims (from their champion, 'Ali) do not hold the Qur'an to have been tampered with. This is very strong evidence for its complete preservation.

[@lorenzochimelis7359]

It’s Quran and bible huh funny thing I see no bible commentary of discussion well l guess why subject yourself to the torture of reality !!! Secondly I hear the word SECULAR … really what faith traditions go they personally hold to they did say secular RIGHT !!!!!!! As for ALI he accepted at the battle of JAMIL thd Quran offered by Muawiyah to arbitrate and settle the dispute

[@user-wc7ku7ud3e]

النبي كتب القران بيده الشريفه وجمع الايات في سور وجمع السور في مصحف وارسل النبي مصاحف للشعوب والمدن البعيده ومع كل مصحف ارسل النبي رجل مسلم يعلم الناس الاسلام ليس صحيح الروايات ان عثمان هو من جمع القران هذا ليس صحيح عند الشيعه يرفضون ذلك ويقولون ان مصحف النبي انتقل لابنته فاطمه بعد موت النبي الكريم مصحف فاطمه وهو يسمي ايضا المصحف الامام وهو نفسه المصحف المعروف الان باسم مصحف عثمان (كان في بيت علي بن ابي طالب زوج ابنه النبي فاطمه) وأخذه منها عثمان يوجد مصحف مكتشف في دمشق ارسلت اجزاء منه للفحص الكربون والتحليل الطيفي وثبت ان المصحف من ذمن النبي وعلي غلاف المصحف يوجد تاريخ مدون للسنه 11 من الهجره اي ان المصحف كان زمن النبي محمد والمصحف عليه خاتم النبي والورق للمصحف من جلد البقر المعالج كيمائي

[@mhmdchamas2862]

الدكتور سهيل زكار اظن ان ذكر هذا الموضوع، لكن الاهم، لماذا هذه القطعة من المصحف لم يتم عرضها عالنت؟

[@user-wc7ku7ud3e]

@@mhmdchamas2862 د سهيل زكار رحمه الله قيمه كبيره قرأت كثير من كتبه وهو بالفعل ذكر ذلك وعرض جزء أو ورقه من المصحف لكن التعتيم الهاءل علي هذا المصحف أمر طبيعي لان اعلانه سيهدم مسلمات كتيره عند اتباع المذاهب السنه والشيعه فكل مذهب ينسب لنفسه فضل الحفاظ علي القران فمثلا السنه سينهار المذهب بالكامل تصور معي ان الناس لو عرفت الحقيقه ستشك في كل ماتعلمونه من روايات واحاديث وفقه تحياتي سيدي الكريم د

[@kamarudinhj.dolmoin8578]

The truth in the Al-Qur'an is prevailing....

[@thenun1846]

The truth ABOUT the Quran is being exposed

[@helman41]

against what...?

[@Kassalawy56789]

Against other revelations...!!! At least we have something to go back to..... Can you say the same...??? Thanks God for Islam ❤❤​@@helman41

[@laputa4825]

I see that setup, I rate that.

[@loveroflife1914]

This is awesome.