Exposing The Ritualistic Worship Service - S01E45

Is worship a spiritual surrender, or a spiritual practice? Is the commonly referred to “Sunday AM Worship Service” in a church building modeled after a biblical example, or is it perpetuated by people who wish to bask in environments filled with emotion? Extreme highs, extreme lows. These are some questions answered in today’s episode. Join in to hear the contrast between worship of the Bible, and contrived worship in a modern charismatic, Pentecostal church. Can we see lives devoted, submitted and humbled before a righteous and mighty God, or an external effort at attempting to catch the attention of a God who will bless them more if they worship more.
I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. - Romans 12:1 ESV
Previous Episodes:
Last Week: • Is Pentecost An Experi...
• Stop, Drop, and "Holy"...
• Sacred Sunday: Pt. 1 -...
• Sacred Sunday: Pt. 2 -...
Playlist: • Grace Escape
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Show Links:
David Jennings - “is there a worshipper in the building?” - www.youtube.co...
Cortt Chavis - “help us worship tonight” - www.youtube.co...
Matthew Tuttle - “get to worshippin’” - www.youtube.co...
Matthew Tuttle - “worship set instruments” - www.youtube.co...
Josh Herring - “I dare you to be a worshipper” - • Josh Herring - BIRTHIN...
Gentry Mangun - “10 AM Worship Service” - www.youtube.co...
Kaleb Saucer - “Worship Service at 11” - www.youtube.co...
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[@murrayritter]

I was just thinking that and you said it! It’s never enough! So true! I was so burned out with that dangling the carrot thing that we never obtain. Thank you so much for your podcast!

[@murrayritter]

Yes about the coming to get something rather than give. It’s such a vicious cycle!

[@kellytisdale7322]

I remember a few years back before I began studying the word, I was at a "non-denominational" charismatic church. I used to affirm this stuff. I remember one night visiting it and got to talking to the pastor there afterwards. It was a night that ended up being nothing but this kind of worship. NO preaching ended up happening. He came to me afterwards and apologized to me that he didn't get to preaching. And I cringe now at what I replied. I said "that's quite alright. When the Spirit moves, you just let Him move." All the so-called speaking in tongues and running around and people laid out on the floor and the laying of hands, etc. Just what exactly could I tell someone who is not of faith if they asked me what I learned there that night? Nothing. I learned nothing. I was not edified. I couldn't understand a word anybody was saying. And the Bible says that if you speak a tongue nobody understands, would someone not think you're mad? Paul said if you cannot speak a tongue that is understood that you are to keep quiet. This is contrary to what these churches do. They do it and nobody understands and they think that's how it's supposed to be like. And their excuse is "well, when the Holy Spirit hits you, you can't stop it". Really? Cause the Bible says the spirit of the prophets are subject to the prophets. I can't find anywhere in scripture where what they are doing is biblical.

[@kellytisdale7322]

My former pastor used to tell us that there is no excuse to miss church. He scoffed at the idea of people missing church. And then turns around and misses church to be at an NFL game. Twice. And turned back around in another sermon some time later saying there's no excuse for missing church.

[@SmolTrailer]

My pastor would make fun of us for missing church (we were supposed to schedule our vacations with the office 🫥 because he was so against people missing church). But he would miss church to go hunting and fishing all of the time! The church got into this rhythm of when he was gone, about half of the church would skip too (not us, we were super faithful). Once he lied about leaving just to see who would show up. Talk about manipulative.

[@kellytisdale7322]

@@SmolTrailer sounds like something my former pastor would do. The Bible warns against such dishonesty and being so disingenuous. Tricking people into what "you" may call sin is exactly what the devil does.

[@kellytisdale7322]

@@SmolTrailer in fact, we lost a couple who wanted to go back to their home town for a weekend and the pastor denied them going because they were on serve teams and should not miss. The pastor ended up making up lies saying Matt blew off the handle yelling at him and portraying himself as being scared for himself when marr was nowhere near that kinda person. And they couldn't refute any of it because of their NDA.

[@BeccaE]

I, just two months out and this is one of the reasons I started to really question things and it bothered me the way they get unto us about doing more saying come on come on and it just felt like hey we are not trained circus monkeys I would think he’s God deserves praise God is wonderful but it felt like it’s only because they are saying it in that moment then in some preaching they say hey it’s not just about the goosebumps anyway not trying to ramble but this is a great video

[@justinandtiffany]

These are good thoughts! It started to feel unauthentic before we left. Like it was only happening because it was being cheerled to happen. Not organic praise.

[@traydizzil95]

that Matthew Tuttle line that he was saying was worship was super cringe. Abraham sacrificing his son was not worship. I’ve heard so many Pentecostal pastors use this to say that it was an act of worship in fact it wasn’t

[@robscorner4741]

It could be said that it's worship in a sense when we obey God it's worshipping God.

[@justinandtiffany]

Agreed!

[@johnnydev9318]

Looks like interesting subject matter coming up for discussion

[@laur3n1124]

Such a great episode!❤

[@justinandtiffany]

Thanks for tuning in!

[@kellytisdale7322]

Well, attending Sunday service is something we should want to attend. Not for the experience but for the edification and fellowship. It does please God to see us fellowshipping and edifying one another. It's a sad thing to see someone who does not care to fellowship with the brethren. Attending lifts other people up. It encourages others to come. It's a show of love to the elders, the preacher and the brethren. They SHOULD love to see you as well. Now, in those charismatic churches I used to attend, there was no love for brethren; only love for the pastor and the experience. No edification of the saints, just self edification.

[@dgh5223]

The church folk would tell me to don’t post that, it could hurt someones feelings when I felt lead to post it. Even pastor criticized me only posting 2 out of 3 singers in church because left out person may get their feelings hurt. Even a church lady told me to take down a prayer request for s certain person to get saved!! I’ve had a older lady who asks all religious to unfriend/block me for posting about narcissistic pastors.

[@kellytisdale7322]

@@dgh5223 most "church goers" care more about people's feelings than the word of God. They'd tell you not to expose sin because it's "unloving" even though the Bible says we are loving when we do expose sin. Yes, there's a manner in which it should be done. We shouldn't be malicious. But it's not unloving within itself to expose sin. So thar church you attended is not a holy church.

[@kellytisdale7322]

I know I've made a lot of comments that seem to direct only discontent. I get that. That is not what I am doing. I think that you two are earnestly seeking and wanting truth and you're just like me, finding out that something you've believed has been a lie. And I also understand that we are all still students of the Bible and have a lot to learn. I post my comments to help others understand what the Bible actually says and means. And I know that's y'alls intentions as well. But I give no personal/private interpretation of scripture. I give Bible only. And it is vital that we understand the Bible by it's own context. The Bible commends those who are fair minded; not open or close minded.

[@nonyabidness5708]

We need to understand it in all of its context... cultural/historical as well.

[@kellytisdale7322]

@@nonyabidness5708 Yep. Psalms 119:160 says that the entirety(or the sum of) of His word is truth.

[@GigiRocks1969]

Thank you for diving deep into the definition of worship; especially at the end in regards to it not simply being an emotional exercise. When I was in the UPCI, I often beat myself up for not responding as vibrantly as others and it finally dawned on me, that the Lord didn't wire me that way. I'm more of a quiet "worshipper," and that's completely okay. It doesn't measure the love or reverence I have for God. So freeing; thank you. You two are a blessing.🌷

[@justinandtiffany]

You are most welcome. And this is such a great way to put it. God designed us all unique, with different personalities and proclivities. We shouldn't ever be made to feel like we have to all act the same exact way! Thank you for sharing ❤️

[@kellytisdale7322]

Those pastors don't want you to miss church because they wanna make sure you give your offerings and tithes. And many of them wanna know your financial statements and your tax info to make sure you're giving "what you're supposed to".

[@kellytisdale7322]

THANK YOU for bringing up the David dancing thing. I've been telling people this for a good long while now. He wasn't dancing in worship of the Lord. He also wasn't dancing in the synagogue or as some sabbath ritual. And the same thing goes with David playing music. He wasn't playing in a worship service or in the synagogue. God gave the commandment to play instruments in worship of Him to the Levites. And there is no NT scripture for playing instruments for the Christian either.

[@greenlantern7122]

28 years I was part of this organization and even though we were unaffiliated over half of that all of what the UPC that church does the same things I can totally relate, all I can say if you know then you know

[@justinandtiffany]

👌🏽

[@By_grace_through_faith24]

Great job pointing out these type churches that have grossly misused “worship”. The cheerleading and screaming are awful. I don’t miss it. I am confused though. The video broke down what true worship is and quoted the spirit and truth verse, but goes on to list all sorts of things that aren’t worship. That seemed to be a contradiction. You mentioned that worship is revering God with our entire being, body, mind, soul, attitude, etc so I would think that definitely includes singing, giving, reading the Word, etc. (the “truth” part of spirit and truth). This would seem to be a perfect example of our bodies (in totality is the way I understand it) being the living sacrifice. “And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God.” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3‬:‭15‬-‭16‬ ‭ESV‬‬ Hebrews does tell us Christ is now our High Priest and the OT system was just a shadow of the new, correct. Offerings and sacrifices were considered worship in the Old, but we also see some NT parallels. “Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name. Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13‬:‭15-16 “I have received full payment, and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God.” ‭‭Philippians‬ ‭4‬:‭18‬ ‭ESV‬‬ While the UPC and others have very legalistic practices and unruly worship, I think we have to be careful not to fall into another type of legalism that says the size of a gathering of believers matters or that things like lighting or the way we word something are major concerns. The modern church doesn’t look like the first century, very true. But I think one of the main reasons is practicality because of the sheer volume of Christians who assemble today. They have to meet somewhere, right? This lends itself to bigger buildings, seating and platforms conducive to seeing the preacher, etc. Whether it’s 5 people at a home, or 500 in a building, if the people are truly worshipping in spirit and truth, that’s all that matters. We know Paul placed importance on some type of church governance, as overseers and deacons were established in the NT. He also calls it the house of God. “if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭15‬ ‭ESV‬‬ Just pointing out some verses to consider. God bless your ministry!

[@kellytisdale7322]

Well, of course it's a service for themselves. Ask em, they'll tell you. They "prefer it that way". They "like/prefer" the songs they sing. They "like/prefer" how they make their lattes. They "like/prefer" the smoke and stage lights, and the concert. And when you call em out on how they are going there because it's their preference, they back-pedal.

[@brendastephens2999]

So where do the ones that have listened to you now go to church

[@brendastephens2999]

Where do they attend church now

[@kellytisdale7322]

It should be understood, according to scripture, the works that cannot save are works of the law of Moses and good deeds. Works of obedience are what saves. A lot of people get that all works are the same and that any type of works cannot save. Well, if that is the case then nobody's saved; not even by believing or faith. John 6:28-29 28Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” Colossians 2:11-12 11In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

[@kellytisdale7322]

I would like a bit more of an explanation as to what she meant when she said it's not biblical, or in the Bible, for, I guess what she meant as like a church... in order, so to speak. Let me share a couple passages on this. Acts 20:7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. 1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. What tends to happen is the centralization of the commands for worship are done on the first day of the week. This does not excuse not doing those things outside Sundays, of course.

[@kellytisdale7322]

John 16:13 was Jesus talking to His apostles about Him about to leave and was saying to them that the Holy Spirit would come to them to guide them into all things. He says it two more times in chapters 14 and 15 speaking directly to His apostles and He was speaking of the day of pentecost in Acts 2. Jesus wasn't speaking in a way that pertains to all Christians.

[@kellytisdale7322]

Be free of what exactly? The pass about working out our own salvation isn't figuring out what we are led to believe saved. That passage was written to the church in Philippi. They were already saved. This was for them to work out faithfulness.

[@kellytisdale7322]

I tried looking up in the Bible where it says the requirement to get the Holy Spirit on the day of pentecost is because they brought friends aha

[@ruthmartinez4388]

Great message ! ❤thank you

[@justinandtiffany]

Thanks for watching/listening! ❤️

[@kellytisdale7322]

When we look at what worship is, it is our religious practice. When we look at the Greek for the word "religion" and it is the same word for "worship", we ought to think along the lines of the first century church and how they were being taught to worship. The Bible teaches us that singing(not music) is worship. As Jesus said in your noted verse about worship won't be in temples or on mountains, He said that we are to worship in spirit and in truth. When we sing, make melody in our hearts and we sing telling the truth of the word. The Bible also says we worship when we give. As Paul said, we give as we have prospered, we give as it is purposed in our own hearts, and we give cheerfully. This is not to say that we must give a certain amount and force ourselves to he happy about it. That's under a tithing understanding of giving. Which we are not commanded to tithe as Christians. Instead, what Paul was saying is that we should be glad to be able to give and that we should give what we can, as we can, when we can. And that's not just to the church but anybody. The Bible also says that we worship by preaching and teaching His word. The Bible also says we worship when we pray. And the Bible says we also worship when we partake in the Lord's supper. As it pertains to worship, it should be up to God how we worship Him, not us; not our preferences. It has to be up to Him. Therefore, if anything we do is outside His given word, it's outside His authority. Now before I get slapped with a legalist charge, keep in mind what exactly a legalist is. A legalist is one who attempts to twist the law to suit them. They work the system in a way that benefits them, which the pharisees surely did do. But keeping God's word for what He meant it to mean is not legalism. Keep in mind that Jesus kept the law too. What He didn't do was ignore the weightier matters. He didn't ignore the essence of the law; which was to love God and love people. The nature of God, or how God is, did no change with the change of the law. He still requires obedience. There is still a law to follow. What I find is that people wanna throw the term "legalism" at anything that seems like a rule we must follow or a command we must follow. I've been called a legalist for telling people that we are indeed commanded to be baptized for the remission of sins in spite of me showing them a number of passages that tell us this. We do not get to choose ow we are to worship God. His sovereignty is no less important now than it was in the old testament days. But people like to misuse the verse stating "whatever you do, do all in the name of the Lord" as though it means we get to choose whatever we wanna do in His name. As though all we have to do is slap Jesus' name on it and it's ordained and okay. This is not what that means. "In the name of" means "by the authority of". Which means if God has not given authority to it by His word, we do not have the authority for it. That verse is saying do all that is authorized. Or say and do things in the way God authorized it. You don't wake up and put your shoes on in the name of Christ. You don't get in your car and drive to work in the name of Christ. You don't wake up and before you open your eyes say "in the name of Jesus, I open my eyes". No, yo don't do any of those things. Jesus said in Matthew 28:18-19 "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," He's referencing His authority to give such an ordinance. When a sentry would yell at someone to stop, he would say "stop, in the name of the king". He's telling them by the authority of the king, you must stop. Or when a police officer used to say way back in the day "stop in the name of the law". He or she would be telling you to stop by the authority given to tell them to stop. Quite contrary, abiding by the authority of scripture is not legalism. Twisting scripture to mean something it doesn't while attempting to also stay within the grace of God; that is legalism.

[@kennethrinicker3200]

Guys please don’t listen to these two. It’s apparent they are of a carnal mind and do not want to follow the scripture.