Why Remade Games Can Feel Worse

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Your favorite game is getting a remake and you're cha$ing your childhood nostalgia. When it hits the shelves you realize that this isn't as good as the original..... why is that?
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#ExtraCredits #Gaming #GameDesign

[@extracredits]

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[@pyeitme508]

BRUH!

[@Ramie0Cat]

Has anyone ever used nebula? If so. What is your opinion of the platform?

[@morganmedrano920]

If you own Final Fantasy VII on PC and haven't used the 7th Heaven mods, you are missing out. It literally looks like a game that's more from the PS2 Era. Honestly some of the character models look better than the ones from Final Fantasy XII.

[@john2g1]

As a life long PC gamer this was never an issue. I always knew Doom looked nothing like the cover and if you were able to play fully use the Crytek engine those games look exactly as good as you thought they looked... Marvelous and glitchy or marvelous and about $3-5000 worth of hardware good.

[@thegingerbeerguy]

Idk if you’ll ever read this but you could cover how halo ce remastered butchered the original

[@Drambrarcer]

The Links Awakening remake was actually amazing for leaning all in to the chibi style and making the aesthetic of toybox figurines cover the whole game, especially the lighting and camera effects. Hoping for a Minish Cap remake that follows the same trend!

[@kennyholmes5196]

Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl did it as well, and look how well that turned out for them.

[@Toonrick12]

​@@kennyholmes5196 That's because the Gen 4 remake was offloaded to a different company and not made in-house by GameFreak like with the other remasters.

[@kennyholmes5196]

@@Toonrick12 That's a fair point. Still doesn't excuse the poor quality we got.

[@Sniperbear13]

the thing that soured me on the Links Awakening remake was the cost. i knew how short the game is, so i wouldn't wanna drop 60 bucks on it since i could beat it in like 4 hours.

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

I agree. A lot of people hated on it, but I loved it! My preferred way to play the game

[@DragoniteSpam]

I forget who originally said this, but there's a quote I like to recite that says "remaking a game isn't about recreating the game exactly as it used to be, it's about remaking it the way players _remember_ it." Which is another reason remakes are usually pretty divisive - people remember the same game differently. Also, nobody's mentioned HeartGold/SoulSilver yet?

[@redkingrauri3769]

I heard a similar thing applied to FighterZ.

[@voldlifilm]

Exactly! I think that's why Shovel Knight works and Mighty Number 9 didn't.

[@CoralCopperHead]

@@voldlifilm Which is funny, considering I like them equally and love both Castlevania and Megaman.

[@voldlifilm]

@@CoralCopperHead Hey that's cool too. Good for you, buddy.

[@Demortalix]

SoulSilver is my favorite Pokemon game. It was just an incredible remake of a great game, it captured all of the Gameboy nostalgia while also working several quality of life features in to keep you from remembering things like how clunky menus were on the Gameboy.

[@Valkyrien04]

Something that might surprise people who aren't in that scene, there are knock down, drag out, blood feud level fights in the emulation community about the best way to emulate artifacts of CRT displays on modern hardware.

[@Ahrpigi]

I didn't know I missed CRT fuzz until I saw comparisons of sprite art with and without it. It's basically magic

[@Erthshade]

@@Ahrpigi It's amazing, isn't it? Good pixel artists of the time were able to use the slightest shift of position caused by how CRT TVs worked to perform almost the same upgrade in visuals that bump mapping did for polygons.

[@CaptViewtiful98]

And that’s not even including emulating the LCD Display of handheld games

[@RadeticDaniel]

On that sense, Warlock Tower developed a shader just to bleed pixels like CRTs used to do and prevent sharp edges making the game look like lego as so many emulators do xD

[@94noj]

I think Firered and Leafgreen did a fantastic job of providing quality of life improvements while still being faithful to the original. I love OG Blue and Red but it is objectively a great idea wrapped in shoddy mechanics.

[@adwenger0066]

Similarly, I loved the silver and gold remakes.

[@JarieSuicune]

Total agreement with FR/LG! They were amazing for adapting the additions of Gen 2 & 3 while still being totally faithful to the originals AND still adding new fully new content and lore! They even added the female player character that had been in the original concept before having to be dropped! Too bad we didn't also get the Prof. Oak battle, but that's ok.

[@jasonreed7522]

Most of pokemon's remakes have been very faithful to the original while still making new improvements, the only remake i genuinely don't like is ORAS but thats probably mostly due to the gen 6 features than the actual remake. (At the time i didn't like the fairy type introduction or megas, and the jump to 3D was rough for pokemon) Even BDSP is a very faithful remake, although with how buggy it is it feels like a copypaste at times but that is probably more to do with the rapid development cycle at Nintendo more than anything.

[@SheezyBites]

I largely disagree, while the mechanics of Gen 1 were wonky and bad in a way the mechanics of Gen3 weren't, the mechanics of gen 3 were very much not right for Kanto. So many poison point and static pokémon made encounters too risky, even against easy enemies, and the number of weather dependent abilities without the focus on weather you saw in Hoenn... let alone how the special split from Gen 2 changed how so many pokémon functioned without the game design really accounting for that. HG/SS were a bit better at this because it leant more into DPPt mechanics, but Kanto was a region designed for it's mechanics, and I honestly think Let's Go did a better job of remaking Gen 1.

[@johnwaugh5372]

@@adwenger0066 HG and OR are two of my favorite games in the series

[@JohnathanJWells]

I don't think the aesthetic becoming soulless is restricted to the player's perception. A lot of the studios that made the original games were borderline indie back then, and are now multi-billion dollar corporations using market research and trends to inform their decisions. Some of the game DO look more soulless because they look like everything else in the market, because that's what the big wigs think will sell.

[@pepe6666]

made by people with no soul. this is really valid. i think its borderline offensive really to imply that they made a game and made it 'better', yet they have no soul of the original art. i think the distaste is naturally detected by people.

[@genarovargas5661]

Demon's Souls Remake be like:

[@DiamondAppendixVODs]

I saw Warcraft 3 reforged yesterday and blimey, it looks like it's had all soul sucked out of it. It has none of the original charm, it looks sterile, like a mobile game.

[@SuperParkourio]

SpongeBob SquarePants Battle for Bikini Bottom Rehydrated was released unfinished. It decided to not only keep the side quest to fork over tons of shiny objects to Mr. Krabs, but it made the cost of the quest HIGHER and removed the glitch that speedrunners used to make the process more bearable. Even worse, the remake added a glitch that prevented players from refighting bosses, so if you didn't do this first, you couldn't get the 100% reward cutscene at the end. You couldn't even revisit the SpongeBall theme park like in the original. An update fixed that latter glitch and restored the prices to their original awful values, but the game increments your spatula count upon refighting a boss you've already beaten, giving infinite spatulas and cheapening the 100 golden spatulas you actually earned. There's still a theater in town that still has a ridiculous price of entry, but instead of showing concept art, it just showed screenshots from the game you just finished playing (that you can already view in the pause menu) and only had the concept art from the original restored after an update. And the Robot Squidward fight that was promised in the marketing that never made it into the original? Just set dressing for a mess of a multiplayer mode. I despise this remake.

[@graefx]

I remember during the indy boom driven by pixel art there was some push back with "what we think pixel art looked like vs what it actually looked like"

[@b_e_p_i_s_m_a_n6212]

I recall being annoyed when devs were so obviously breaking the limitations of what older consoles were able to do, like not locking pixel art to a grid, rotating sprites (which would've been fine if it weren't for the former issue, the individual pixels rotated with the sprites), unrestrained use of transparency effects, and the actual pixel art being either cheap and overly clean or dirty to the point where there were way too many colors packed into a single sprite/tile. While this persists to a degree today, I feel like devs have gotten better overall with how they handle pixel art in avoiding most of these pitfalls.

[@Nate-bd8fg]

@@b_e_p_i_s_m_a_n6212I wouldn't say those are necessarily pitfalls, unless emulating the original look is your goal. I quite like 'unaligned to grid' look and effect

[@angel_of_rust]

@@b_e_p_i_s_m_a_n6212 collegehumor ruined an entire generation of pixelart

[@SilverZephyrFalcon]

Something that didn't come up in this video but I'd be interested in seeing your take on - how do you adapt game design in a remake? Some games simply copy over the exact same design as the original, just with a new coat of paint. Others will mostly keep things the same but add some good quality of life improvements. And some add a ton of new features to the original that can greatly change how it plays. I'm curious why a studio would choose one method over another.

[@Ahrpigi]

6:55 I had this experience watching Babylon 5 for the first time. Mid third season my friend upgraded to a flatscreen from a CRT, and suddenly everyone was actors on a stage instead of aliens on a space station.

[@Shicksalblume]

Still a great show.

[@Ahrpigi]

@@Shicksalblume it absolutely is! It was just jarring being shocked out of my suspension of disbelief

[@pepe6666]

oh yeah man there's some high FPS comparisons of star trek movies on youtube that really show this effect. its meant to look 'better' but my o my does it look absolutely horrible at higher fps.

[@TheJacobG]

An interesting twist in this is, I think, age. I started playing games in the HD era and that might be why I've never had that experience of imagining what the game "really" looks like. I've always taken it as the game looks like exactly what is being presented; no need to fill in the blanks. I don't even find myself doing that when playing retro titles, I just take it as what it is.

[@EternalShadow999]

I think personally Diablo 2 Resurrected is a good example of a game being remade properly as I was playing I was smiling the entire time because as I played it I was thinking to myself “this is how I imagined this game looking when I played it in my youth” it felt no different to me and felt like I was a kid again experiencing the game for the first time all over again

[@zachludolph8154]

They really got the colors right in that remake. And the new models look great

[@zaratrustamaster]

That whole thing was so deep in problems, bugs, server issues, performance issues, crashing and the shadiest practices possible that got me to finally decide to never purchase anything from them again. Probably the only good part of it all was the graphics rework. I really got surprised to see soneone mentioning d2 as a good remake case. It's usually the second one, after Warcraft reforged, that comes to my mind as a catastrophy

[@c0i9z]

Super Mario All-Star was a SNES remake and collection of the four NES Super Mario Brothers games. They all look great, they all play great and you gain a nice battery save feature. It's just about as good a remake as I could possibly imagine.

[@DominoPivot]

It's a famously disliked remake by those who played the original versions, because it really broke the physics of SMB1 and Lost Levels. Those who grew up with the All-Star versions love it, those who grew up with the original would throw their controller within minutes :)

[@shinkoryu14]

I'm going to highlight a lesser known one that I think deserves way more attention than it's gotten. Odin Sphere Leifthrasir, a drop dead gorgeous PS4 remake of the already drop dead gorgeous PS2 game Odin Sphere. The original odin sphere was a 2-D sidescroller game done in a hand painted art style that makes all of the characters and backgrounds look like an actual museum quality painting- it's BEAUTIFUL. However, the PS2 could baaaarely handle the visual fidelity the game was trying for, especially if there were a lot of enemies on screen at once. The game was notorious in it's day for almost comical slowdown issues during certain boss fights, such to the point where the framerate dropped to almost nothing. However, Leifthrasir not only benefits from the added power of the PS4 engine, it also solved some of the other minor issues with the original game, such as it's grindiness and the weird currency system wherein there were five different coins in the game from three different countries, some of which were the only currency you could use for certain upgrades but the game doesn't EXPLAIN that until almost a quarter of the way in, after which point you've probably frivolously spent a lot of these precious coins. All this to say, please for the love of god if you're reading this hunt down a copy of Odin Sphere or even better, Odin Sphere Leifthrasir. The ingame art and music are breathtaking, the story is a wild emotional ride, and IT DOES NOT HAVE NEARLY ENOUGH RECOGNITION!

[@danielwilson8787]

I got it on my Vita and it looks amazing!

[@LevelUpWithDan]

I have had Odin Sphere for over 10 years and only recently started Odin Sphere Leifthrasir and even though i have only done Gwyndolyns story I'm loving the game.

[@DiamondAppendixVODs]

Vanillaware always cooks with the art

[@rodrigolealmartir5902]

My gold standard for a remake is the Resident Evil 1 remake, the one that originally came out for the Gamecube. It's so good that, even as a remake, it has stood the test of time: It looked and played awesome 20 years ago, and it still does now.

[@Ahrpigi]

So good that it was skipped over in the new wave of REmakes!

[@BillieHatesMillie]

yeah, gamecube had a lot of surprisingly-still-holding-up-to-date realistic games, like RE1 remake and RE4

[@MontyBeda]

I think it is much easier to make remakes of games already made for LCD screens. So games like Mafia, Witcher and such are more likely to at least not go in the pitfalls of looking completely different than stuff on CRT monitors. When I see some of the pictures of the difference of pixelart between CRT and LCD it feels like impossible to even do great pixelart on LCD because of the distinct borders between pixels and the colours in the pixels.

[@kentknightofcaelin4537]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I actually like the crisp, clear look of pixelart on LCD

[@HansLemurson]

Pixel art should ideally have a blur filter applied to it.

[@Cerebrum123]

@@kentknightofcaelin4537 Same. I also dislike how certain sprites end up with copies of themselves showing on the screen when there should only be one. Chip 'N Dale Rescue Rangers does this with the "flower" collectibles that can earn you an extra life. None of the other sprites seem to do that, just that one.

[@RobotsWithKnivesCartoons]

Age of Empires II has had two good remakes, AoE II HD, and now AoE Definitive Edition, but the thing is AoE II has never stopped being played. The game has taken the approach that allows players to see more of the map so the spirit of the original game very much feels in tact to that game I played after I opened it on Christmas day in '99

[@JarieSuicune]

Yeah, it never really felt like a remake to me. When I got AoE II DE and started playing it years since I had last played the original... it felt the same. Even the appearance felt overall the same even though I could tell the graphics had a number of changes and updates! (Heck, they even kept the cheat codes!) Only the opening bugged me (so I replaced the intro video with the original one!) for being replaced rather than redone. I think the reason is because the core of everything was kep the same and because the game is (typically) played QUITE zoomed out there wasn't a lot of detail to get wrong in those changes.

[@llSuperSnivyll]

Definitive Edition works, but I think there are a lot of improvements that are missing. For example, outright disclosing bonus damage and anti-bonus-damage armor is something that should be a thing, but it's completely absent.

[@RobotsWithKnivesCartoons]

@@llSuperSnivyll isn't that what Spirit of the Law is for?

[@llSuperSnivyll]

@@RobotsWithKnivesCartoons It shouldn't be necessary. The game itself should give you all that information.

[@JimCullen]

​@@JarieSuicune trust me, if you go back to HD or the original version, you _really_ notice it. There are so many quality of life improvements in DE. From shore fish villagers dropping off at docks, to farm auto-reseed, to the improved hotkey system. And of course the improved graphics are actually pretty huge, and you _do_ notice it if you go back. Heck, until DE you couldn't even queue multiple techs and units at the same time.

[@David-dz1cb]

Zero Mission is my fave remake. It perfectly modernizes the original Metroid, with tight controls, an actual map, and tons of extras. Really like this video.

[@ZMYaro]

I think Zero Mission also works because it has an amount of respect for the original Metroid. It knows there are issues it needs to improve on (as you said, thank goodness for the map!), but it takes enough inspiration from the original in its tilesets and keeps the general world layout and memorable rooms and moments intact so it all still feels familiar. (It may not be an official Nintendo game, but this is also why I love AM2R! And of course now the Metroid Prime remaster!)

[@729MendicantTide]

I think that this reasoning is why I feel AM2R is the better remake than Samus Returns. A lot of things in SR felt shoehorned in just because they could, whereas AM2R was mostly concerned with improving issues that were already there and tried its best to preserve familiar moments when it wasn't improving QoL. (edit: NEStroid vs Zero Mission) I too have played both games. I loved ZM - I actually picked it up largely due to familiarity with original Metroid. I was actually utilizing original Metroid map knowledge to get through a couple of early segments, but in the absence of it, the game actually manages to be intuitive to navigate without totally holding your hand.

[@Tailstraw_xD]

I wouldn't even call that a remake tbh, half of the game is entirely new, and the original Metroid's story is told in a way that fits current canon

[@SirVG]

Shadow of the Colossus on PS4 was probably my favorite remake. The PS2/3 versions were fine, but the PS4 version was so smooth and gorgeous to look at. And even for those with the PS2 nostalgia, they included the PS2 control scheme as an option while also including a newer scheme that IMO felt more natural. Good stuff. (Still waiting on that ICO remake...)

[@mladens1779]

I'm still waiting on PC ports. I played the originals on an emulator but would love to own them. Thank God Killer7 and Okami got ports.

[@jamiepou]

Glad someone mentioned this game!

[@pax6833]

Makes me think of AoE2 Definitive Edition. They recreated the game with new graphics and it actually looks pretty good. I didn't like it *at first* but they do feel better after some getting used to. Though I still feel like the low res sprites from the original game were more colorful and charming.

[@GoranXII]

The AoE1 remake seems to have fallen a bit flat though, probably (IMO), because it _was_ a 'like-for-like' remake, with none of quality-of-life improvements that came with AoE2 (plus some of the aspects, like pathing and stability, were apparently _worse_ than in the original).

[@michaeldunn8972]

AoE2 Definitive Edition is better. They added content, made balance fixes, Improved Multiplayer experience. AoE2 Definitive saved the game.

[@wiseSYW]

aoe2 is mostly a competitive game, the new content and balance changes is what the community needed because the meta has been stale before. and they don't really care about graphics changes.

[@nightfrostbreeze]

I really liked the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Rescue Team remake. When PMD first went to 3D I thought it looked way worse than the pixel art of the previous games, but Explorers DX made the 3D assets look way less generic by leaning into the watercolor style. Plus it smoothed out a lot of the rougher elements of the original. Then again the original is still a classic so I could see some people liking it better which is fair.

[@thecrb1579]

Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining pearl got it so raw. They stuck so close to the originals they didn't add an quality of life changes like they did for the Gen 3 remakes. Gen 4 was fun but it had alot of issues that they deliberatly left in the games. Pokemon type variety, Pacing, Writing (or lack there of) etc etc. There's a reason people wanted a platinum remake instead of Diamond and Pearl.

[@GiordanDiodato]

most people want the third game remake, which imo would ruin what Pokemon was made for.

[@jamcdonald120]

0:10 its because I played the original on a CRT monitor, and those made a lot of things look better than they actual were.

[@vooshPOW]

The absurdity that was Warcraft 3 Reforged was made even more apparent because it was in stark contrast to the Starcraft Brood War remake. The latter was exactly the same as the original game in terms of gameplay, except with better graphics and some quality of life features. Looking at WC3R after seeing BWR was like looking at a wedding turn into a divorce.

[@brianyoung3324]

Some Remakes remove features, add bugs, and replace the original- they're the worst kind, and I was surprised the video didn't address them.

[@GeneralLuigiTBC]

To this day, Fire Emblem: Echoes: Shadows of Valentia ranks among my favorite games. Admittedly, I never played the original Gaiden, in large part because it never got an official English release and the more primitive art style simply rubs me the wrong way. However, considering that I found Shadow Dragon--another remake of an older Japan-only Fire Emblem title--utterly forgettable, I don't think my praise for Echoes can reasonably be chalked up to my simply having not played the original.

[@InquisitorThomas]

I say that the Pokémon remakes up until Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl were all improvements over their originals (some people might argue over ORAS being too easy compared to the original Ruby and Sapphire)

[@stoicc6510]

I haven't finished Valentia yet, but I fully agree. Shadow Dragon was mediocre , but Valentia is captivating.

[@DiamondAppendixVODs]

Shadows of Valentia is the goat

[@Bricriu-gj9dd]

The Spyro Remake is perfection in terms of Remaster status. No contest, no argument. it's beauty.

[@jacobkelly8503]

Spyro... is... amazing.

[@Zeonm69]

I've taken to calling well remade games reignited as a nod to spyro they were some of my first and favourite growing up and was fucking stoked to be playing again with all the enjoyment of childhood

[@Dogman_35]

That studio just has a talent for capturing the feel of the OG games really well. They worked on the Metroid Prime remaster too

[@doomslayer_spyrofan3943]

And crash bandicoot?

[@hecksters423]

C&C Remastered Collection joins the club

[@mitwhitgaming7722]

Metroid Prime Remaster: "yes, yes it can."

[@TheSubtleCow]

All the MYST remakes are deeply interesting to me. It has a pretty chaotic remake history, and Cyan has been releasing versions of myst onto every platform known to man.

[@bevanfindlay]

The remake for Flashback did a neat trick: rather than just upscale the graphics, it simulated what the original would have looked like on a CRT. It was a little gimmicky, but managed to give you what you remembered it looking like, instead of hard pixels. Was probably cheaper than redoing all the art from scratch, too. It also added an optional rewind function that could get you out of dumb mistakes, making the original's pretty steep difficulty a little softer, but only if you wanted it.

[@MathAndComputers]

As others have mentioned, the Link's Awakening remake was awesome. I have nostalgia for the original, but the remake really did it justice. The music is amazing, and the art style is great.

[@Machtyn]

I'll have to check that out. I played it originally on a B&W Nintendo Gameboy. It was a fun little game.

[@axl1178]

The funny thing is that when i clicked on this video, I got an ad for Metroid Prime Remastered as though it was a response to the topic of this video! 😆🤣😆🤣😆🤣

[@seanmcloughlin5983]

For me the ME1 legendary edition means I can never go back to the original for 1 reason Loading times I remember back when the game came out there were so many memes about these sci fi civilizations who couldn’t make elevators that lasted less than a minute Because they were there to hid the loading times that were EVERYWHERE I dreaded having to talk to my crew after a mission because that meant a nearly 2 minute elevator trip (which this small ship has for some reason.) there AND BACK. Sometimes technology just makes games better

[@InquisitorThomas]

Yes but the Elevator Conversations were a good source of characterization for your squad mates.

[@seanmcloughlin5983]

@@InquisitorThomas they could’ve done that just as easily while walking around planets or in the Mako I honestly suspect it was a way to TRY and make the elevator loading times less tedious, but was no help at all with the one in the Normandy

[@blackdragonsaber7956]

@@InquisitorThomas But the developers gave the player the choice in the remaster whether to skip the elevator dialogue. Once the game loads, you have the option to press a button to skip the ride, or you can listen to the conversation and then skip.

[@UnchainedEruption]

That has less to do with the game and more to do with the fact that your modern PC or console has SSD's rather than hard drives.

[@dr_doritotf2305]

A lot of the Nintendo remakes are really nice because they usually completely redo the graphics to the new standard, if they play well though is a different story. . .

[@Will_Forge]

I wish that smart TVs were smart because they could simulate various tech levels of yesteryear for this. And maybe can upart and create new frames if that's the direction the viewer wants to view experience it. That's the future, I hope.

[@DiamondAppendixVODs]

some tvs have already been interpolating years ago. but I don't like it, it makes movement look weird

[@Exarian]

I do think there's the thing some games do with the remake to fix some clear mechanical flaw with the game that had a simple fix. A less strict timer or more effective healing, just a chance to tweak a mediocre but promising game. A couple games have done that I think, varying degrees of success.

[@megabyte01]

I was actually playing King's Quest V last night with my girlfriend. I had fond memories of its painterly art style. I also felt like it was a good example of using presentation to let the player's imagination fill in the blanks. Still... I could do without those moon logic puzzles, like waiting in the library!

[@HansLemurson]

Yetis have only one weakness: Custard Pies.

[@SteveJubs]

I recently went through the trouble of digging up my ancient copy of FFX for PS2 so my bf could play it for the first time. I’ll never understand why so much work went into absolutely botching all the character’s mid-LOD models in the remaster. They look amazing in the original, even by today’s standards, and it’s been so nice to revisit them all when they actually look like themselves, even if everything else does look a bit rough around the edges on a flat screen.

[@Lulink013]

A pair of remakes that didn't have to compromize much were Yakuza Kiwami 1 and 2, remakes of the first two Yakuza games from the PS2. I guess the reason they could make them look and play good for their time with short dev times is that they are part of a series that keeps a lot of assets from game to game. Remakes can piggyback off of the work done for the new games.

[@EfrainMan]

I think the Dead Space Remake really hit it out of the park for me in terms of remakes. Nothing in the graphics or the gameplay made me feel that "the original was better" feeling you describe here. It is "just as I remember it" as it were, despite the original looking like and definitely playing like a hot mess nowadays lol. Also, I also think the Resident Evil 4 and Silent Hill 2 remakes may be a bellwether for future remakes. The originals are beloved, and if the remakes make people pine for the originals more, it could definitely affect future remake plans. It's weird however, that a lot of recent remakes are horror...

[@user-zp4ge3yp2o]

How does the original Dead Space look and play like a hot mess?

[@PetesPopculture]

Spyro, Crash, Spongebob and all the Nintendo remakes have been fantastic in my opinion.

[@SheezyBites]

I think the Spyro remakes messed up the lighting pretty bad, I don't deny they look good, but they don't look good the same way as the originals and I'd honestly prefer to go back to them than the reignited games.

[@PetesPopculture]

@@SheezyBites they look great and that's all that matters

[@SheezyBites]

@@PetesPopculture But the originals look better, so why play the new versions?

[@PetesPopculture]

@@SheezyBites the originals look better is your opinion and likely biased by nostalgia. I think the remake is far better on all fronts and its much easier to get a hold of and play for like 90% of gamers and that's a good thing. Its midnight where I live and I'm off to bed so I'm going to agree to disagree and leave it there.

[@SheezyBites]

@@PetesPopculture I literally said it's lighting and colours, there're plenty of comparisons and it's widely criticised. I don't deny it's easier to buy, but given the ease of PSX emulation I'm not sure it is easier to get for most gamers, given most of the world is relatively poor and free piracy is easier than expensive purchases if you're on a limited budget... But hey, I think it's fine, if that's how you play it I don't think you're missing much, less striking visuals and missing a few great line reads but it's a fine way to play... Just that making the originals more available would be fine too, or they could have just done the lighting right?

[@stevenn1940]

Yes; see metroid prime remaster Haven't wagched but I stand by this

[@ellznaga2199]

I think the majoras mask/ocarina upgrade was good

[@jacobnicholson7518]

One element of some modern remakes of post-DLC-era games is being able to re-release the original with ALL of the DLC content. I realize this also happens with special edition/GOTY releases too, but I think a good way to draw in players is the idea of "this is a one-stop shop for the full story experience." I played through the original Mass Effect trilogy at the time it was released, but I didn't keep up with all the DLC packages at the time. So when Remastered came out, I actually got to play some story DLC that I hadn't gotten to play the first time around. That said, ME:LE also serves as a reminder about the impact of Multi-player aspects in a remake, as they had a tie in between the multi-player version and actual bonuses in your main story playthrough that they can't replicate now, so they had to offset that by tweaking the way War Asset points worked in the third game.

[@hmsquared8603]

I am so glad the XCOM remake exists. It introduced the franchise to more people and paved way for one of my favorite video games ever.

[@RorikH]

I'm interested in the fan remake mods of the fallout and elder scrolls games. Skyblivion looks like it's going to be good because it's not just a company remaking the same thing they made, but a team of fans trying to make it feel the way they always imagined it feeling. I also think it's the best bet for the OG Isometric Fallouts, as there's a lot of stuff in there that you couldn't get away with today (child murder, most of New Reno), and the overworld map isn't anything like a full 3D world, which would be issues for an official remake, but if it's jsut fans remaking it they A: don't have to deal with the ESRB/outraged Moral Guardians, and B: can change things around like adding structures and dungeons to fill in what used to be empty space on the overworld map without people claiming that they're in some sort of diabolical scheme to ruin the original.

[@machitoons]

there are 3 concrete examples where CRT makes a huge difference I can think of where the clean pixels actually ruin a distinct thing: 1. Dracula's eyes in SOTN 2. the Sonic waterfalls 3. the rainbow-sparkling mountains in FF1

[@ralpheid905]

For me pokemon heartgold is the gold standard for remakes.

[@sempersolus5511]

And Pokémon Brilliant Diamond is the fool's gold standard.

[@ralpheid905]

@@sempersolus5511 it’s literally just that. Just play platinum guys.

[@Drag00nSt0rm]

So there's a game called Lock's Quest developed by 5th Cell. It originally came out on the DS, but has recently been ported to PS4 and PC (a port isn't a remake, but close enough). I quickly realized I wasn't having nearly as much fun with the PS4 version, and I realized this was because of the controls. The original game used 2 screens and a touch screen that lets you jump around the map quickly. It's almost like losing half of your screen real estate and having to spend considerably more time panning across the map in an RTS is going to create problems...

[@ZMYaro]

I forget where I first heard this phrase, but I really like when remakes aim for “how you remember it looking” rather than photorealism. Obviously that can be difficult since people may remember it different ways, but it usually seems to be a mix of incorporating art from the box art and manuals (as you said) and keeping the game feel (controls, character behavior, enemy types, or what-have-you) of the original. Mario All-Stars wouldn't have worked if it had the 16-bit sprites but messed up Mario's jump arc, for instance. One of the best examples that comes to mind in recent years is the unofficial Mario 64 PC mod that uses character models from the box art and instruction booklet in place of the in-game models. They don't look like HD Mario Odyssey models, but they provide higher detail while fitting the aesthetic folks who grew up with Mario 64 remember. For an official example, minor nitpicks aside, I think the Metroid Prime remaster did a great job keeping in line with the original aesthetic to the point I had to compare to the original to realize some places they changed things. I would argue AM2R (Another Metroid 2 Remake) and the official Link's Awakening remake also achieved “how you remember it looking”-basically all the key landmarks and moments are where you remember them, and most the new additions generally don't intrude (can be skipped entirely). And since I brought up AM2R (not to reignite Metroid 2 Discourse, hopefully) I think part of why Metroid 2 fans found Samus Returns off-putting was not just that it looked different, but that it changed so much of planet SR388 that all but a couple landmarks and moments were unrecognizable. Not the worst remake of all time, but next to Zero Mission's comparative respect for Metroid 1, I can't help being disappointed.

[@technolance2164]

I think another thing could be nostalgia and unexpectedness, playing a game for the first time without knowing the twist or grand finale is something that cannot be reproduced in a remake, without changing the story

[@Lordblow1]

The Dead Space remake was rly damn good. The resident Evil remakes too are absolutely great

[@ceegers]

I was extremely disappointed by the Logical Journey of the Zoombinis remake. They replaced some of the visuals, but not most, and it's always super obvious there are two very different styles going on. The sounds also got messed up, and these two together made the game lose its charm. But what's worse is that they broke some of the mechanics of the game's puzzle types and introduced numerous bugs that didn't used to exist. So even if they hadn't messed with the visuals or sound at all, it would still be a worse game.

[@HardCodedGaming]

MGS The Twin Snakes is a really fascinating example. It basically remade MGS1 in MGS2's engine, but they didn't do anything to update the designs of the levels or bosses, trivializing a lot of challenges. (I.e. being able to freely target the tank boss with anything, when the original idea was to need grenades) Some people bemoan the more over-the-top cutscenes like Snake briefly riding a missile DMC3-style (that actually got Kojima's approval, fwiw). But it still made a fantastic entry point to the series for me.

[@JewishMusicToronto]

I loved the remade Monkey Island games for 360. It was great seeing them come in a similar style to Curse.

[@mastermavrick]

Great overview of why and how remasters/remakes work. I think there is also the matter of emotion/mental stage of when we played the original. Something is only NEW and or NOVEL once after all. Also when we are younger we might have only had been allowed so much time to play. Or so many games to play given cost or via RENTAL time, remember that concept... renting a game for a weekend/week. Given those limits, we got a lot of enjoyment from games of that time. Discounting all the art & technology changes... when we already know how the story plays out because of playing the original all we have to look forward too is the art/tech changes which can damage out enjoyment of a remaster/remake. There is also the matter of the when systems for the game change for a modern audience... rpg wise turn-based -> action. For a remaster/remake I'm awaiting but on the fence for... Resident Evil 4.

[@javierpaz7954]

One of the best examples of how some styles of pixel art just don't work without scanlines is 16 bit games that use 3D renders as sprites. Like Donkey Kong Country or Super Mario RPG. Without the scanlines and fuzzyness they just look like a pixel mess. Or even games like Shining Force III, text is much more easily readable *with* scanlines.

[@bartz0rt928]

I'm playing the Metroid Prime remaster right now, sort of in conjunction with playing the original on the Steam Deck through an emulator that includes some mods to add modern controls. I think this is a very good remake; they basically just added modern controls and made the graphics prettier without going overboard (which they couldn't do on the Switch anyways). I would add Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1 + 2 as a good example, but it's online only on PC, which ruins it for me. I'd say either do it like that (overhaul graphics & controls), do a "bare minimum" (make sure game runs on modern systems + fix control issues), or do the FF7 thing and basically make a whole new game (remake vs remaster). Or just put the ROM in the public domain, that lets any older console game benefit from decades of fans fiddling to get it just right. That way you don't make any money, but it's a huge PR win that any competent marketing department can turn into hype for a next installment.

[@redtutel]

I think about Pokémon a lot, so I’m comparing the Pokémon remakes in this lens I think all of them except BDSP do a good job at recapturing how the games look in our imaginations They’re all definitely lower budget then brand new games, uses assets from the most recent game. BDSP being the exception, hence the bobble head style. And I think every Pokémon remake except BDSP got remakes right. Although the fact I didn’t grow up on Emerald is probably why I love ORAS so much

[@sodapone]

I think that's why BDSP disappointed me so much. Little kid me imagined a proper 3D rendering of Sinnoh that wasn't grid-based and _definitely_ not with miniatures.

[@postapocalypticnewsradio]

PANR has tuned in.

[@SilverSonic72]

Not exactly a remake I guess and not even entirely bad at all under circumstances, but the PC version of 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors. It's part of the Zero Escape Saga. The original on the DS had no feature to turn off the internal monologue and descriptive stuff. The PC version did, meaning you could play the game with dialogue only during story sections. This greatly hurt the immersion of the game and made the dialogue seem a bit random at times. And in a story-driven game like that, a lot of the point is lost if you shut off the background info on thoughts and actions. Otherwise, it really is a good remake that added some great quality of life stuff. Playing it on PC with the inner monologue stuff on gives you everything from the original and more.

[@a.dennis4835]

0:01-0:30 I actually feel "Conker: Live & Reloaded" looks worse than the "Conker's Bad Fur Day". The main reason is I think the realistic fur looks uncanny on cartoony characters. Note, I only recently saw footage about these game so it's not a nostalgia thing.

[@ericstelzman5190]

It was also because it was more censored than the original.

[@dood5426]

Silent hill 2 remake is one Im very hype for

[@davidjeang5783]

This may be a tangent, but maybe something to talk about about would be using the nostalgia factor to make something entirely new. GalaxyTrail did a stellar job of it with the Freedom Planet series outdoing modern Sonic games. Sabotage Studio played the comparing 16 and 32 bit graphics to each other great as well with their Ninja Gaiden-like Messenger. Yacht Club Games spoke for themselves with Shovel Knight, and with their new Kickstarter project Mina the Hollower combining two different but similar enough aspects to be compatible(Gameboy LoZ and NES Castlevania), it has the potential to get the best of both worlds.

[@1996squareenix]

I am PRAYING for remasters of the original dissidia final fantasy games to release them from the clutches of the psp. I'm also hoping for updated ports of the original trilogies of Sly Cooper and Ratchet & Clank which haven't gone beyond the ps3

[@Tyrranis]

I don't know about any remakes coming up that I'm interested in, but there is the remastered Suikoden I & II collection that I'm waiting for. However, in terms of remakes that got it right I'd have to point towards the Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon remakes as the prime examples. More standardized controls over each series' titles and updated visuals that preserved the original titles' aesthetics while not being afraid to improve on background details and/or characterization (the dragons you rescue in the original Spyro come to mind immediately). However, I reckon that Electronic Arts has proven lately that they're really good at remakes and remasters. The Mass Effect trilogy, Command & Conquer: Remastered Collection and the recent Dead Space remake have all been faithful to their originals while still offering improvements to bring each one in line with modern titles. It's frankly surprising, given their track record.

[@LokiScarletWasHere]

Just imagine if remake projects actually brought players of the original into the testing team while they were figuring out what works and what doesn't for the remake. I bet you can't even imagine it. It'd kick so much ass.

[@MiseFreisin]

It's funny how you think nobody who works on a remake has ever played the original????????

[@LokiScarletWasHere]

@@MiseFreisin There’s a difference in having someone (likely a programmer from the company) who played or worked on the original working on the remake, versus getting regular players of the original to test ideas for the remake. Think, “focus groups but they don’t suck”

[@Venquine_R]

I'm not sure if it counts, but Kingdom Hearts The Story So Far. It has almost all of the KH games on one disc - bar KH3 which is included, but on a separate disc - and all games are both the Final Mix version, which used to be exclusive to Japan, and in HD. I got into KH with KH2 around 2006/2007 and I have been a fan ever since. I actually have several versions of all KH games and absolutely *no regrets* about it. I am also *soooooooooo* looking forward to KH4. It is the one game that will, when it releases, motivate me into buying a PS5. But if that doesn't count, then Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. What those two did as remakes of Gen 3 was in one word, *splendid!*

[@JustBoredGaming]

I think the Spyro Reignited Trilogy lost a bit of it's magic in the remake, for the 2nd and 3rd game at least, I think the remake is the definitive version to play the first game just for those dragon designs alone, but aside from that, idk, a lot of the charm seemed to be lost in translation, like... the character's goofy sock puppet mouths, the seemingly seamless level transitions showing the backdrop of the level through the portal, stuff like that it's not a bad game by any means, and I hope they eventually make a "Spyro 4" like they did for Crash, but the OGs will still always hold that special place in my heart

[@Sniperbear13]

well it seems like Legend of Dragoon would be fine as a remake since like FF7, they don't leave too much to imagination. Edit; really though it goes to show how how much games in the past had to work around a lot more limitations in more then One way. they were made with CRT's in mind as well since who in 1995 would ever think we would have TV's that are so large yet thin and make it so you can literally see every single strand of hair.

[@amyar123]

(just an FYI beforehand but I have slight red-green colour blindness, so maybe that's a factor here) For me one remaster that REALLY got it wrong was the Spyro remakes. Going back and playing the earlier games on ps1, heck, even looking at screenshots, you can see how the games art style was built around solid colours . The games textures tended not to have a lot of detail that would drown out the colours, every character was made from large basic shapes and the entirety of the games felt like a cross between a kids drawings and a picture book/cartoon come to life. The art had a weird, minimalist zen feeling to it. So when I played the reignited trilogy, I was disappointed to find that the wonderful art style (born from limitations yes, but still wonderful) had been replaced with what felt like a water down version of a knockoff of Warcraft 3's art style. The animation style went from a crude and expressive exaggerated style to what looked like a straight to dvd low budget animation that some new hires at sony animation or blue sky studios (right before they closed down) would make right after coming out of animation school (I know I'm being harsh but that is seriously the feel I get replaying these games). To be fair, I've never played the first game, so it was tolerable playing through it with this new art style and I found it quite charming at points, but the second and third games REALLY grated on me. Everything felt more generic and less ....soulful. It might be because of nostalgia, but even small things like how the characters were animated, or designs of worlds and enemies, etc felt "more of less" if that makes sense. More stuff in them that was much less original than the little that was already there. Not sure if anyone will read this, but if so, thanks for hearing me out. Just needed to say that to someone.

[@RaziOrSomething]

The whole low quality screen reason is why a lot of people use emulators to add scan line crt filters. And the Super Mario RPG remake went great.

[@FioreFire]

I'm not a nostalgia-driven person, if a remake looks good I don't compare it to a made-up image in my head, and the main thing I look for is modern QoL improvements. The new control layout in the Link's Awakening remake took a game that I had always considered an inferior entry in the series and gave me a whole new love and appreciation for all the other parts that I wasn't able to enjoy originally

[@cycloid2326]

I think a lot of successful remakes are ones that use the engine and assets from the latest entry in the series, or in rare cases (like Metroid Prime Remastered) are used to test out a new engine before the next mainline installment

[@Elfos64]

Outside of games, remakes for things like anime make sense since anime habitually has issues with catching up to the source material manga and needing to make filler arcs to keep the story going while waiting for the main plot to progress. Filler arcs have a noticeably cheap and pointless feel to them, lower stakes, out of place just kind of sitting around while leaving the pressing main plot issue unresolved, sometimes even violating previously established info or otherwise incongruent with the logic of the world. Sometimes, there's simply mistakes in the story that shouldn't have been there, sometimes it's a product of its time that may have been okay back then and while still good are less okay now- certain aspects that haven't aged well. When doing a remake, it makes sense to remove the pointless filler and retcon the mistakes away and update it a little to fit with more modern sensibilities while maintaining the basic story and themes, one would not unreasonably assume most remakes try to do that to some extent, one might assume the remake is the favorable one, I dare say this is the main reason aside from accessibility that remakes can and should happen. But remakes or distant continuations are rarely made by the same people as who made the original, people have different ideas of what made the original good, whomever's in charge of remake may have flat-out missed the point of the original. Even if the original cast and crew do return, people change, their outlooks and opinions shift- they might be inclined to express things they previously didn't or vice versa. It's important that when doing a remake, whether for art or profit, the one in charge needs to understand the logic behind the original. But that's not to say that enjoyment and appreciation can't be found outside authorial intent, on the contrary many works are enjoyed in spite of their authorial intents, and a smart remaker would be aware of that. Rather than understanding the author's idea behind a beloved work that corporate execs fail to grasp, one should try to make sense of what the socially and artistically conscious audience who enjoys it like about it.

[@MrKapouetsky]

at 2:30, you want an example? Think about games in the Atari era where a box cover would tell you A BIG story for what was actually a game of Pong.

[@RaindropWorksPDX]

This is why I like when remastered games on Steam give me a scanline option (or in emulation if I can find the right shader tool)

[@smoglesgames9333]

Ocarina of Time did an amazing job. Especially the inclusion of Master Mode and QoL improvements for dungeons like the Water Temple.

[@TALLPANZER]

We need to re-make more badly executed games that had good Ideas.

[@RorikH]

Which ones are you thinking of?

[@lwardrop2453]

Monster Hunter has an unusually fitting fidelity profile for how it redesigns its games for the consoles it migrates to. They were even able to make the usually complex game of Monster Hunter look good and run well on a handheld as pixelated and dainty as the 3DS! Maybe this isn’t quite the same idea because this is something that was originally made at grand scale being shrunk down, but I think it is relevant to the conversation since the 3DS has heavy limitations compared to stationary consoles like the Wii, or the Switch (I haven’t played it outside of handheld mode, other people probably need to tell me what they thought of Monster Hunter Rise/Sunbreak).

[@colbymullenix9140]

I for one was among the many Gen 4 fans who were greatly disappointed with the remakes of Pokémon Diamond & Pearl. It was direct recreation of the originals without all the quality of life changes seen in Platinum, let alone anything new and unique to these remakes that could have helped them stand in their own merits.

[@TheEmeraldLunast75]

How about a game I really want to get a remake? Splatoon 1 servers are shutting down in April and since I'm not getting a Wii U in that time, I will have never experienced Splatoon 1. I think it would be really cool on the next big Nintendo console to get a Splatoon 1 remake for newer fans that don't have a Wii U. The big thing for this, though, is that I don't want anything changed. No graphics changes, no glitch patching, no balance changes, just the raw Splatoon 1. Not really a remake, but a port of the game. Just make sure that this time, there are no hackers ruining everything and stealing your data.

[@BlackJar72]

As much as I hate when people write-off any interest in or preference from older things as "nostalgia," I don't think you can write-off nostalgia as a factor here. Not technically a remake, but I think of how adding high-res textures and 3d models to classic Doom source ports was cool as late as 2010, but sometime in the 20-teens things shifted and everyone just wanted the original graphics, which to me was the point when nostalgia took over from focus on game play as a core interest in the game.

[@mavis_draq]

The ace attorney games are my favorite remasters. I love that in 2 months, the only ace attorney game that will be missing from the switch is the Layton crossover (that thankfully i already have on my 3ds)

[@haccapel4526]

Spyro and Crash Bandicoot trilogies + CTR were quite succesful remakes in my opinion

[@wilsonchan9768]

Personally, I never found any problems with remakes/remasters, besides technical problems, like bugs, glitches, crashes, etc. Like Silent Hill HD for example, the reason the fog isn't there is because when using the source code supplied by Konami, that source code was actually for an older/incomplete build (which for some dumb reason, Konami archived as 'complete'). So they would have to recreate the fog and other missing stuff but since it's on a strict deadline and Konami wanted Silent Hill HD done cheap...you now know the outcome.

[@ericvilas]

Sonic Mania did it so right. Even if they didn't actually remake any games, they remade the _style_ and they did it _well._ It was for the modern era what Firered/Leafgreen were for the GBA era, and it is part of what convinced me that "transforming 2D games into modernized 2D games instead of 3D games" was the way to go.

[@armelior4610]

And then there's warcrapped : reforged that made the game more in line with current AAA standards by deleting a bunch of features, needing online access at all times, being way less stable than the original and having the new shiny graphics hurt the gameplay by being way less readable...

[@fireaza]

When people say that a older game "doesn't look as good as they remember" how literal are they being? It actually looks different from how they remember? I can remember pretty much every single polygon from Ocarina of Time and playing it recently, it's exactly as I remember. Sure, it's not as technically-impressive as it used to be, but it still looks just how I remember it.

[@VitruvianSasquatch]

Metroid zero mission is probably one of the best remakes I've played. The original benefitted hugely from it, and they made it more than just a remaster.

[@GiordanDiodato]

this kind of reminds me of the Tales of Symphonia remaster. People keep complaining that it's not like what they grew up with, which is kind of the case as the remaster is based on the PS2 version, which never saw a release outside Japan. It also goes at only 30fps as opposed to 60fps from the Gamecube release. They could up the framerate for the PS2 version, but it would require reprogramming the game as the framerate for the PS2 version is tied to animations, which means that if they force a 60fps patch, it would break the animations. Now why can't they just add the PS2 version's extra content to the Gamecube version? well because they lost the source code for the Gamecube version, which is a whole other topic and can of worms.

[@foodflare9870]

There's another thing you didn't seem to bring up, but there's also the whole aspect of many of the remakes I've seen is that they seem to lack the coherency in style that the original had. I suppose you lightly brought this up with the attempt for cheaper creations to make up for the budgets, but it's an aspect I think is important.

[@TheGirlChris]

The AGDI/Tierra remake of Kings Quest 1 was great. It didn't try and upgrade it to "modern" game play, but instead to a different, still nostalgic style.

[@UnchainedEruption]

What people today can't seem to understand anymore is that video games are supposed to feel like you actually are the hero. They don't have to actually look like it, for you to feel it. When games started becoming really cinematic in the late 00s/early 10s, that was quite revolutionary, and a lot of people didn't like how games were feeling less like games and more like Hollywood movies with just press x to continue the movie. Nowadays, we've reached a point where graphics are so life-like (actually more visually appealing than real life I'd say) that games aren't designed to actually be played anymore. They're designed to be watched. They don't try to make the player imagine he is in this world or feel like he is immersed in this world. Rather, they're meant to look nice in marketing trailers, and when you watch some twitch streamer or KZbinr play it. In short, we have a whole generation who can't event fathom that games at one point were actually supposed to be un-life-like, yet that was okay because your eyes adjust to it and you still feel immersed regardless, the way you still feel immersed when you read a book, even though there aren't any pictures at all. There is an absurd obsession with latest and greatest graphics. I get it, shiny pictures look nice and I want new AAA games to look like the best games yet. But these things have diminishing returns, and I feel games already reached that point 10, 15 years ago. Even when older games clearly look a lot worse, that doesn't mean they need to be remade with modern fidelity. It means consumers need to just get a little context and appreciate it in context of the times when it came out, rather than comparing them to today's games.

[@HotdogDivebomb]

There's a distinction between remakes and remasters, so when you are asking for examples of good "remakes", you probably should not show the title screen for a "remaster" with "Remastered" in the name.

[@Stratelier]

That last point about display technology is why a good emulator needs to simulate the _display_ too -- like transparency effects being achieved via per-frame flickering, which was fine on an interlaced CRT but looks bad on, _say,_ 30fps KZbin videos.

[@TukoIsCool]

I honestly thought they didn’t do really anything to Metroid Prime until I looked back. Retro studios actually made what I had envisioned the older games to be. So it was surprising to look back on it and see really how bare bones it was compared to today.

[@smaza2]

live a live had a great remake. really leant into the charm of the original by using the sprite-based octopath traveller system, while also creating better looking sprites given the higher available fidelity - basically just making a strict upgrade of the original game. just a shame that the gameplay doesn't really hold up compared to modern jrpgs, but that's just a product of it being a faithful remake

[@VodShod]

I was thinking wouldn't it be fine to make a remake where it is easy for players to swap out visual and sound assets with community created ones. That way the devs can focus on the story and mechanics, while giving the community the tools to improve the rest of the game.

[@purplesam2609]

For BDSP, it wasn't just this effect for me, what with Pearl being my first Pokemon game. They cut a lot of corners, got sloppy with the animations, and just.. didn't actually remake the game. It didn't live up to the standards ORAS had set. They remade the core game exactly, even animating the 3D models the same way they did the sprites. It looked so wrong. And with what they did with the contest hall.. they massacred my baby

[@Emperor_Oshron]

totally agreed on the "left to the imagination" thing. i remember being totally blown away by _Carnivores: Ice Age_ when i was a kid and once remarked out loud that it was like i'd really gone back to the Ice Age. just google exactly that and look at some screenshots and you'll see that, in hindsight, it left a LOT to be desired ;)