Extreme Demons Lack Identity

[@Jeyzor]

Just wanna say that none of these things make a level inherently bad. It's the way they're often used that makes them uninteresting to me personally. Not every extreme demon is a "red dark portal spam" extreme. It's more of a top extreme problem.

[@crewly]

ok

[@Blue_Expert]

Thats ok, it just felt like in the video that you were saying that any level that has fast switching game modes or is mostly red hell themed can't possibly be well made. After all, the editor allows you to create anything you so desire, and any style of deco or gameplay can be poorly made or well-made. I do agree that many extremes look the same and that it needs more variety, but it sounded like you were discriminating against the commonly used styles and trying to discourage others from using them, much more than encouraging people to use styles that aren't used much in extreme demons. I just wanted that to be clearer. Good video though. :)

[@Blue_Expert]

@@Rexster930 Yes, I watched his videos. They do a great job explaining the problems with the community.

[@FloodNinja110]

This is a lie, portal spam is always bad.

[@Sevant]

True. I'd like to see more extreme demons with infamous specific parts. Like how Slaughterhouse is infamous because of River's part, Tartarus because of fixed hitbox straight flies or even Thinking Space because of a harder second half. We almost aren't getting any extreme demons with outstanding parts these days

[@lavatrex]

EXACTLY in my level i intentionally left chokepoints that had a cool name LOL

[@dereckteixeira9520]

And silent clubstep with the 8joh

[@wKraw]

Based opinion.

[@smokebomb024]

We need more limbos

[@ember_5657]

Damn right. Limbo keys are iconic for a reason

[@RinkieGeintie]

I think the appeal of flow gameplay is that for most people its just one of the most fun gameplay types to play once you get consistent at it. Yes, it does make levels forgettable, but enjoying the level while beating it is also an important factor, not just remembering it after. I get that some people may find all the unnecessary portals messy, but the purpose of those is mostly to make it feel satisfying to play. Seeing your icon change to the music just makes the level more fun for some people. However, I do think that because it is so forgettable, it shouldnt be used in very important levels (Big megacollabs or top 10’s) At the end of the day it all comes down to personal preference, some people enjoy more synced flow gameplay levels that really encapsulate the music, and other people enjoy levels that are more about the game and level itself

[@cheesymacaroni4305]

but they don't feel satisfying tho.

[@memesong21]

​@@cheesymacaroni4305*_for some people_*

[@cheesymacaroni4305]

@@memesong21 burh i made this 4 months ago 💀💀💀💀💀💀

[@Jakalope_Circles]

I make exclusively 1.9 levels and I didn't even realize that I instinctively followed the format of gamemode-by-gamemode, maybe that's because it's what I found the most fun and engaging to decorate and play? I'm not really sure. But I can agree that the "flow" gameplay can often lead to bugs and weird nuance that shouldn't exist, which makes them annoying to learn and beat

[@DimenSpadX]

They still do the same dirty strategy on yours 1.9 gay servers, Just like some stupid shitcraft players

[@killonsin99]

yeah I despise flow gameplay and j respect you for making actual good levels (I hope)

[@SyncronedStuff]

​@@killonsin99Flow gameplay is bad when executed badly. All you did was playing bad flow gameplay levels instead of actual good ones.

[@rudysepiclife6470]

I make 1.9 levels too

[@ember_5657]

Exclusively 1.9 circles levels* :troll:

[@ABootLaTributi]

WAKE UP BABE, NEW JEYZOR VIDEO JUST DROPPED

[@EEEE42069]

This is the 2nd video in a row that i watched that has this (top) comment.

[@randomjazzpicture5108]

Holy hell

[@Chizinky]

yep that explains a lot about why older levels are remembered today but newer levels are just forgetten as soon as they lose the spotlight

[@jayphurs-stuff]

captured my feelings on flow gameplay and modern extremes perfectly

[@zMysticat]

Jeyzor just randomly came out with an absolute banger.

[@teamok1025]

70th like

[@Neequse]

vernam correctly said gamemodes should change approximately with the same frequency and with enought time between each other. it fits so well

[@adderalladmiral]

when the game mode switches every 2 seconds it doesn’t let any mode reach it’s potential

[@Jeyzor]

2 seconds is very generous these days

[@jackyy3]

that's why shardscapes is fire 🔥🔥‼️

[@TheThe-mn7os]

@@jackyy3playing shardscapes in practice mode made me want to hang myself with a ziptie

[@adderalladmiral]

@@jackyy3 shardscapes sucks

[@randomannoyance]

typical soulless flow gp neon garbage by team fungameplay with 30 people making one level

[@Periwinkleaccount]

4:07 that one actually isn’t useless, it’s used to give a much higher jump arc because of the ball’s floatier physics.

[@Querez8504]

I've also thought about how I never really cared for "flow gameplay" (gamemode "spam"). I never really thought that _hard_ about it, but watching this video does make me realize why I felt the way I did about it.

[@AeonAir]

Im gonna drop a fat disagree on this one. Ironically enough this feels very tunnel visioned, only really taking a look at the popular, and more difficult extreme demons, which yes, are lacking a lot of identity, and try to make up for that lack of identity by being super difficult. As you yourself said, you havent been keeping up with the modern creating scene, and it's very apparent with the examples you make in the video. Flow gameplay while a very popular style of gameplay, isnt nearly as abundant as youre making it seem, and the same goes for red hell themed levels. A lot of the lesser known extreme demons are some of the most creative levels the game has to offer, because there is no limitation to gimmicks and ideas in difficulty, meaning people can execute more intriguing ideas. You just have to look outside the top 20 on the demon list. Even just outside the top 20, you can find tons of super intriguing levels like lotus flower, directions, qoueo, and shardscapes, which all take an idea and pushes it far beyond what has been done in the past. This feels like a boomer take, for a lack of a better term, where you only see the surface of what is there, and draw conclusions based on very limited knowledge.

[@Someone-ch9xg]

based opinion

[@LassiBoii]

nerd

[@therealjjjay]

hey Aeon

[@nitemares5816]

I’m not reading allat … i have 1.0953903342628282635523734957384383828496830 attention span💀💀💀 *starts playing subway surfers 🏄 🚇🚉 and FAMILY 🗣️🔥🔊👫GUYYYY🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️”! This is a joke /j /k /LMNOP /QRST /UVWX /YZ /NOW I KNOW MY ABC IDK WHAT ANY OF THIS MEANS

[@Fivealiveisgood]

That’s true tbh

[@CatkinsonGD]

I agree with a lot of this, though I think portal spam _can_ be a good thing, if used conservatively. It can be an excellent method of executing music representation if you use it to highlight a particularly chaotic or high-energy portion of the song, but if every click in the level is spent in a different gamemode, it takes away from the experience and fades the entire project into obscurity by blending it in with the rest. Another thing I've noticed is how often flow layouts get glow deco slapped on top, and it's always so draining and disappointing when this happens. Though they might have different styles of block design, the concepts always come off as stagnant and uniform. I feel like this is sort of a natural progression after the creating community was driven away from the 'generic' trends of old, but in that fear to be different, a generation of creators have been mass-produced in such a way that they all _believe_ they're doing something interesting, but are doing quite the exact opposite. This is also how we've been hit with a wave of 'experimental' levels, which seek the same end, but miss the mark since they all go about this in the exact same ways. Nothing these days, no matter the difficulty range, feels fresh, unless there's some feat of editor mastery by the best and brightest minds out there. My hope is that when 2.2 rolls around, it will toss the community and invoke a new era of creativity, not too dissimilar to early 2.0. That might come as a shock to some, given that this exact scenario is a common fear among creators and players alike, but I think we NEED to return to that state of mind in order to reset what's conventional, thereby forcefully injecting a diverse ecosystem of creation, and solving the identity crisis.

[@handsomeorange198]

Glad to be a part of the made a non hell list level gang

[@robianny]

i made a non hell extreme but it aint list so i cant relate to mr inanimate insanity

[@lavatrex]

same

[@dr.popples1584]

I feel like the “useless” portals like jumping through a ball portal are just there to have a different arc of a jump. Like jumping through a ball portal as a cube gives you a higher jump

[@ryuox]

this exactly. i think the difference here between flow gp's intentions and jeyzor's viewing of it is a lot of flow gp is based on making certain movements and using gimmicks to represent the song, and jeyzor views them as just using different gamemodes just for the sake of it. also he doesn't account for things like certain gamemodes being used for things like getting certain amounts of height through a jump or for consistency reasons

[@dr.popples1584]

@@ryuox that’s exactly how I feel lol. Especially when he used a clip of Sephtis which is like better than a lot of the extremes he had mentioned that had the “structured sections” or whatever he said with only 1 or 2 game modes. Also being more memorable is not always a good thing aswell. People remember like Lit Fuse and will Stan that level just because it plays with the song, but the gameplay is bad which is why a lot of people hate it. More people will remember Lit Fuse for its awful gameplay than like Sephtis for example where half the people who I know play GD don’t know about it.

[@r7ne]

IN my personal opinion on flow, i think flow gameplay is actually pretty cool, when used wellll. Im not anywhere near good at the game so flow gameplay at my skill level (round ez demon) is actually pretty satisfying to pull off and as the name implies, flows well. its a combination of regular fast clicks and long holds that makes you feel like your playing something way harder than it actually is (compared to more standard gameplay which is more timing/control focused). I fully agree with the fact that portals should be used in conjuction for a song, but this applies to flow aswell. imagine a breakcore or dubstep drop. switching from only using a couple gamemodes, to some crazy flow in this case fits the song perfectly and highlights the unpredictability and chaos. In the example your using though, most of the extreme demons dont use cool songs like that and most are just house EDM, (no hate to house) and in that case the flow is used throughout the whole level, which makes it less impactful. also its hard impossible flow which kinda goes against what flow was meant to be, which is removing (most of) the timing and precision in turn for a more learny yet satisfying to pull off approach.

[@UFO-g2b]

In 6 stars, it's fun.

[@aTtsb]

Fr I'm planning to beat a medium demon called 163 soon, which has learny flow gameplay, and it is super fun so far.

[@ItsHybrid_GD]

Absolutely perfect video man.

[@KellogsEnterprise77]

Me When The ExtremeDemonHybridDogHuman is sus 🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑

[@LemonsGD]

Awesome video I agree 100%. I have tried to avoid this trend in my extremes.

[@Disfigure__]

Lemons sighting???

[@roymund7430]

You back

[@gliiitched]

The problem is much deeper than the style of gameplay the level uses. It's reductive, and makes for an ineffective and bad faith criticism. The issue lies more in the expression of the level, how it represents its song, how it is decorated, how the gameplay is constructed, and how that gameplay represents the song. Levels like Sedulous and Blast Furnace are held in such high regards for this exact reason, despite them being flow levels. They nail this expression, forming their identity through decoration centered around which part of the song the level is in. Older levels like Cataclysm, Ultrasonic, Bloodbath, and Windy Landscape do the same, even though their gameplay is fundamentally different. The levels themselves create their own atmosphere, not the style of gameplay they use.

[@Jeyzor]

True! I wasn't clear on the video but everything I talked about can be used right to create fantastic stuff

[@gdkngstn6306]

i will say that as a player flow gameplay done right is a joy to play, and usually what makes flow bad is bugs (reverence) and broken sync.

[@almond7341]

Been wanting someone to talk about this for ages thank you Jeyzor

[@TheExitsNear]

unrelated but glad to see someone apriciating the sonny soundtrack david orrs work is great, fucking love sonny, glad to see another person who actually knows about sonny

[@Jeyzor]

I loved sonny and sonny 2 as a kid. recently rediscovered sonny 2017 that I had bought some yeras ago on steam and the ost goes crazy

[@gamergod_yt3053]

I just know it soundtrack thanks for terraria I love that game

[@hiimandiandi]

glad to be apart of the "made a non hell themed list extreme" gang

[@DimenSpadX]

There are only like 5 hell themed levels currently 🌚

[@dids5]

i knew i recognised your pfp sazerix is one of my favourite levels ever

[@deltaaimee]

8:45 there are many many levels that look absolutely stunning puts dole damos by jeyzor

[@fluffyfiber]

and jeyzors own limbo part lol

[@Catman_321]

As a smaller layout creator, I find that I usually make parts how you described at the start: With few gamemode changes throughout. Of course, if the specific goal I have is to make gamemode changes everywhere, I would make it in a memory level, not a flow level. At the very least, I don't switch gamemodes until you click at least four times. The only exception I can think of is the ball or spider because it can make you jump higher going into it, but yeah that's really all I can think of why

[@sevenak_]

even though im not a fan of flow gameplay myself, i had never thought about its impact on memorability of extreme demons. i guess thats why levels like congregation are my favorites on the list. i really hope 2.2 makes creators interested in all the new editor tools and abandon the idea of "making a hard level for the sake of making it hard" as a whole. im looking forward to it very good video, i sticked until the end

[@robianny]

I.. I'm thankful for you pointing out the issue of portal spam. It's a very controversial thing to say but honestly, I don't like it at all. and i always had a huge distaste for it. If you dont know how to keep the same gamemode for a few seconds without making it boring, then that's a huge weakness, and to be honest you can't make up for it by just spamming portals. It's a very random thing for me to rant about, but i just never liked it if you like it, though, its perfectly valid and all power to you, none of what i said is objective

[@YoReid]

God Jeyzor you did not say a single incorrect thing in this vid

[@syntekh]

Flow gameplay is one of the best most fun gameplay styles in the game. I understand why it might look messy and not enjoyable to play, but it in fact is enjoyable to play and really satisfying to do. It also gives really good opportunities for music sync. The big problem is, the style itself is pretty "fragile", so any unbalanced clicks or bugs can completely ruin the gameplay.

[@imarandomperson761]

Lmao I dropped Prismatic Haze mainly because of a single bug 😭 I do think the base gameplay is good tho, it was a 7/10 level at first, just became progressively more annoying

[@Anguloose]

@@imarandomperson761 im guessing the part around 38-45?

[@imarandomperson761]

@@Anguloose The bug is at 34%, but yeah the wave at 38% is also super chokeable, 41% - 100% is fine imo although the ending is very hard

[@Anguloose]

@@imarandomperson761 yeah i hated the 38 wave will ALL my heart when i went for it

[@imarandomperson761]

@@Anguloose I can relate lmao

[@EnfurGD]

This is one of the best videos I have seen. As someone who both plays and creates a decent amount of extreme demons, I much prefer playing/creating levels that stick to 1 gamemode for like 10 seconds before switching to levels that change gamemodes every click, I agree with pretty much everything you said, awesome video :)

[@DuskerHu]

I'm so glad more people are calling out this annoying and generic flow gameplay. I'm a big fan of straightforward levels, so I usually stick to 1.9. I almost never touch any extreme demon made with the 2.1 editor.

[@mothxine]

I honestly really agree. I think that overall, the problem is that levels lack personality. The designs are uninspired and samey, and we just don’t see new unique things very often. The gameplay segments have very little personality and they don’t iterate on the possibilities of the game modes that they use, instead going for sync and difficulty. I (and everyone else) really just want more variety. I personally have a huge soft spot for red hell levels and I think flow gameplay is fine if it isn’t done often. I’d really love to see these things continue to be made and iterated upon, but not to this extent and not with this little change. Creators just need to put more personality into these levels, especially when they’re given such immediate popularity because top 1 demons are so beloved by the community. Creators can’t exclusively push the boundaries of difficulty, they really need to push the boundaries of all the other aspects of their level. That being said, I do know it’s MUCH easier said than done. I’m not the one making these levels, and I know that it’s really hard to just push the boundaries of just about anything. Obviously not everyone is gonna be a FunnyGame. But, I still can’t help but want more from our recent top 10 demons, and I really hope we see a shift in future demons to come, especially with 2.2 coming out around a month. (Or sometime within then. Hype!!!)

[@Prometheus_Alt]

Agree with a lot of your points tbh. Though it's worth noting that we only expect these standards from extremes and not from any other difficulty.

[@Jeyzor]

this personality disorder is almost exclusive to extremes. most easier levels already are interesting visually. if anything, I'd like to see extremes look more like easier levels.

[@lappwv]

​@@Jeyzorgeneric levels still make up the majority of the featured tab though, i guess you dont notice the extreme amount of generic ass stuff thats on there because none of those levels ever get popular, meanwhile extremes do regardless of whether they are good or bad and this makes you expect those levels to be something completely out of the norm and not as generic as 90% of the rated levels which is just something unrealistic, they could just be normal/generic levels that happened to be extreme thus inherently getting popular, i'd argue theres a good chunk of original extreme demons for how little amount of them even exist(600-700)

[@dshifter7]

@lappwv Exactly. I've played maybe 10 levels from the epic/featured tab in the last few weeks, but I can't remember any of them because they're just glowy, modernistic, or dark messes in my mind, like 95% of other rated levels I've played in the past. Hardly any one single easier featured level sticks out to me. However, I can still remember a bunch of extreme demons I have no business remembering solely because I remember the community complaining about their bad decoration/unreasonable gameplay. The state of rated levels nowadays is oversaturated and awful. To gatekeep newer players from playing the game normally and getting their first rate with a "lower-quality" level is pretty elite and ignorant to say the least. The entire argument in this video is about already established creators making soulless products, but I see the comments are (correctly) extrapolating that newer creators are seeing these big names make certain types of levels, and then copying those styles for themselves because "if that was rated, so can this". This leads to other creators looking at the featured tab for inspiration, seeing these copied-style levels, and further copying them for their own levels. At some point, these bland styles can become so ingrained that that is all they know how to create, leading to a bunch of nothing levels being the "popular" thing. Then, because everyone is so used to seeing this bland style, when something unique comes along, it's blown out of proportion and then further copied (unless its something technically impressive like Bli-style, poocubed, dole damos, or etc, because these are too hard for an inexperienced player to recreate). I don't know... Though yes, this is an issue with extreme demons, I think a lot of us have seen this issue arise outside extremes too.

[@Prometheus_Alt]

@@Jeyzor as an aspiring creator myself, my aim is to get my first creator points, so in order to guarentee that, my aim will be to play it safe and cozy up with the mods' expectations, so I look at existing levels because those levels are rated, which means they already satisfy the standards of mods/Robtop. And this is how a lot of similar looking levels get made. Ultimately there's nothing wrong with making generic looking levels. Not everyone here is to create revolutionary, visionary work. A lot of people create because it would be cool to have the prestige of getting a rated level. You might have started out that way yourself, but later decided to take the more "sensible" approach of giving the community a net contribution instead of just making yet another generic rated level

[@lappwv]

@@dshifter7i feel like the complain is not about extreme demons being bad, is about them getting so popular and kind of being the forefront of gd levels while being nothing outstanding, i kinda see why some people would take issue with that but thats a point that should be addressed in this discussion instead of just saying "extreme demons not being good is objectively bad" when this could be applied to any other difficulty

[@memesong21]

ok but have you ever tried making flow gameplay just for the fun of it? it's really fun to build

[@wayacrazy.]

Jeyzor is one of the best creators of all time, im sure he has

[@nosna91]

I find flow gameplay hard to build. Like I love picking a game mode and staying in it for 15 seconds, it’s more fun to build a part and more fun to play

[@cd-ramos]

THANK YOU FOR POINTING OUT THE FLOW PROBLEM. I am so tired of Blueskii and creators like him using good songs in shitty flow "layout".

[@SeptaGon7]

wow the same points people have been repeating for like 6 years alongside the generic cherrypicking levels that fit what youre describing while ignoring that there are hundreds of extremes, most of which probably cant fit into "red dark generic portal spam". I cant take this video seriously when you even say in the beginning that you barely play other difficulties, at this point its not an extreme demon problem its a problem of wanting to complain about them so you are more likely to notice ones that follow the thing you dont like

[@Jeyzor]

Obviously I showcase levels that I think are unique and don't fit any of the criteria for a bland extreme (note: it's subjective). I'm ignoring hundreds of extremes that are not too interesting in any way but also not part of "red dark generic portal spam", which are all different points and most levels do not have all of these traits. After all, this is just my opinion as a creator, not a player. Your opinion is just as valid as mine. I want to see more unique creative extreme demons. If anyone wants to create a level that has been made countless times already, that's fine. I'm just not personally interested in that.

[@DeineOmaBestOfs]

*Cytokinesis walks in*

[@Fofiifii]

Im so glad someone finally said something about this. also there's some good creating tips that i would like to think more about. (gamemode spam being a major one to keep in mind)

[@IBM-5100]

Although there's a lot of problems with top extremes nowadays, using Kyouki as an example is something I strongly disagree. It utilizes the flow style in one of the best ways possible, looks good, feels satisfying to play, is balanced enough (compared to other levels) and is also satisfying to watch. Complaining about a level like this while stuff like Sakupen Circles and Thinking Space exists is really petty imho.

[@roymund7430]

You back jeyzor the legend

[@rocbot9479]

You back roymund7430 the grammar god

[@Catonic348ismyGDusername]

You are first!

[@roymund7430]

Yes i am first

[@icerod]

The Crossroads outro was so fucking genius lmao

[@therealjjjay]

since there is so much at your advantage in the editor people make these massively decorated levels and they are kind of the same, to be honest. I can't tell which is which between 50 of the same decorated extreme demon levels. i get what your saying

[@Silverdynamix]

As someone who grinds out easier extreme demons I feel like the main reason extremes don't feel as impactful as in previous times is just over saturation. There are dozens upon dozens of creative, interesting extremes coming out recently that if they had come out near the start of the update would be remembered forever. However, there are just so many of these extremes now that it's hard for people to notice these levels, no matter the quality. In addition, most of these extremes are on the easier side of the difficulty, and do not benefit from the demon list.

[@kntnt5006]

One of my favorite extremes is called Stand in the Snow and it has a completely unique feel and there is no portal spam. I was immediately hooked just by the fact it was interesting. Trying something new is always better than just redoing the same old formula.

[@joa_xd6466]

i have to disagree on flow gameplay being ‘unfun’ its actually really fun to play in my opinion, it just takes longer to learn than ‘normal gameplay’ also love the mention of the sulphur sea in the video, it’s so cool

[@rosaphoric]

this is honestly a great video, i agree with a lot of it and it encapsulates my personal problems with modern extreme demons nowadays as well. i am sure i have the skill level for most extremes that aren't top 75, but most of them are just simply incohesive and AWFUL to learn because of the fact that a lot of them focus on just making frustrating extremely fast gameplay with gamemode changes every 3 seconds that make the level unbearable to learn. i think flow gameplay is fun in the sense that when you do learn it, it feels satisfying to pull off and is generally fun to play, but learning it is just simply ABYSMAL, so i tend to stick to older extremes which aren't this fast mess of switching gamemode every second. as well as your point that extremes are simply boring and generic nowadays, i agree as well. it feels like no passion is actually put into extremes nowadays, it feels like the decoration is just THERE so the level can be rated, and that's it. 99% of modern extremes begin with a fast, unreadable and awful to learn layout, which is then decorated soullessly by usually the same people JUST so it can be rated. (eg. CDMusic, GrenadesofTacos, CuLuC..) and of course, these people are great creators, i think the stuff they make is great, but it just feels like EVERY SINGLE level they have a part in is just that same modern glow style we see in so many extremes today. with the exception of limbo, it just feels like there haven't been any unique extremes as of recent, and it sucks. overall, you did a great job with this video! good stuff jeyzor

[@GeckoGD]

as an extreme grinder with ~67 extremes, flow is by FAR the most satisfying and fun gameplay styles. yes i don’t remember the parts of it but enjoyment is the most important factor when you have to spend multiple days on a level, otherwise it will get too boring to play over and over. this is a major issue with levels like Bloodbath and Yatagarasu. while they are memorable and unique from the rest, they are INCREDIBLY boring to play from 0, and considering you have to spend a few days on them, it becomes unbearable for people like myself to stick through them. overall, i agree levels are less memorable if they are flow-styled, however in my opinion memorability is one of the least important factors when it comes to extremes, since the main focus is the gameplay and how fun it is to play through. a level with a clear identity will very often be miserable and repetitive to play, whereas flow/fast paced gameplay are much more satisfying and replayable.

[@polterknight]

Good video. I. Hate. Rapid. Gamemode. Changes.

[@yayanekkthesecond6604]

While watching this I thought of a recent solo extreme I've beaten - Empyrean by Kivvvi and I think it's a great example of a "flowy" level that doesn't feel shit to play, neither boring to play or watch. The beginning parts are rather slow, changes gameplay sparingly, but still fitting the song. Then when the drop build up comes up, everything starts moving slowly, the ground starts shaking more and more and the gameplay speeds up. When the drop hits, it becomes a flow level you'd expect, with many visuals representing the songs current upbeat, everything is really fast, shaky, but yet every gamemode change felt like it was neccessary and super satisfying to pull off. When the drop calms down and the song slows down, everything else does as well, and every gamemode is used for a bit longer, then making it entire parts of a particular gamemode or two. Also the ending is really climactic and its intensity really peaks well. When typing all of that and thinking about other levels critically, stuff I've beaten like Delirium Tremens and Leyak felt really same and lacked uniqueness because of similarities. Another good example would be Prismatic Haze and Taurine - if I'd be newbie GD player I'd confuse these levels as the same level same difficulty. In conclusion - current state of extremes is that they're lackluster, and are somewhat boring to see, with exceptions like Empyrean mentioned before.

[@aleg6204]

Was just playing one of your levels brooo. Im playing geimetry since 10 years and i remeber your levels since then

[@stanstanmansan]

8:47 didnt expected to appear on a jeyzor video like this xd, great video btw

[@videogamermega]

bro... I didn't recognize bloodbath in the intro cuz it was tilted... 💀

[@X3m.Gaming]

people focus too much on music sync and spam portals to try to make every sound in a song an input. but in reality translating music to click patterns that feel like they follow the music but actually dont is hard. this is why i like sonic wave because translating music to gameplay is the best thing about that level and it makes it so fun to play. another level that doesnt spam portals and does this is heartbeat. especialy that wave part lol. wish i could think of actually good levels as examples.

[@SuperstarStudioGD]

I also feel like the songs they choose aren’t good either. Very rare do extreme demons ever have good songs imo

[@enegort2228]

Props to this dude. This opinion seems controversial and still shared it. I see your point and can understand why something like these parts is bad for you. I can also find a lot of things that you mentioned annoying as well. So thanks for sharing your opinion :)

[@bndh4409]

didnt expect to think i was loading into a deathmatch lobby during this video

[@LEMIZLITE]

indeed, Acheron is DEFINETLY a red hell themed level

[@zuwgd]

6:05 bro used the artist of the minecraft disc that you find in strongholds (didnt even notice it was jeyzor whos making this video. subscribed immediately, love your content keep it up!)

[@Hentori.]

I identify as slaughterhouse

[@MrPatrickbuit]

The real issue is that almost all levels in the current game are megacollabs, because making a solo level can take upwards of a year. It's not a job, it's a game. Now I appreciate the good solo demons more than anything, but I don't blame creators for saying fuck it and just sticking to megacollabs, which are always going to be harder to turn into a cohesive project. Mindcap has definitely shown refreshing qualities as a host tho. As for flow gameplay, it's really the players that pushed this. Not the creators. Almost all extreme demons have playtesters who are actually skilled at the game and apparently the average playtester prefers flow gameplay over the classic gamemode-by-gamemode style that we used to see before 2.1.

[@lapersongd749]

not to diss on ur vid or anything, but i disagree with the majority of the points you made. the first point made in the vid was about flow gp being chaotic and boring. i love flow gp and some of the hardest levels ive beaten are flow levels because learning levels is the best part of trying to beat a level imo. i think the appeal to flow gp is that you have to learn the gp and you dont know whats going when you just watch a replay. if the level is buggy thats an entirely different story. another point made is the oversaturation of hell levels. while i do agree that hell levels have been done to death, some hell levels are still appealing. hell is really a style, but more of a theme a level can follow where some levels do it right and others just make it boring. one of the biggest points you made is about showing the art, not hiding the art. one problem i have is that you never ask the question "why?" you say that its invalid for a level to obstruct vision to be intimidating, but i think intimidation is a valid reason to obstruct vision. the lack of visibility could be something the level is trying to convey. all of these points should be pointed towards passion projects rather than normal creators. some creators just want to make an extreme for the hell of it with no standard of quality in mind. i think these criticisms are valid for big projects that mean a lot to the creator. ive never seen generic levels as a problem because at the end of the day its the creators decision to do whatever they want. im not saying that there should be no criticism, i just dont think the criticism in the video is always applicable. if the criticism forces the creator to change a big part of their level, i dont think its usually valid as its going against what the creator wants to show. glow levels may be boring, but telling the creator to change the style to a modern level doesnt make sense because that clearly isnt the goal of the creator. i think criticism should go towards the goal of the creator, not what the playerbase wants. most of the video was just you bashing levels for not appealing to you, but in the end, many of these levels are appealing to a bunch of people.

[@Jeyzor]

flow gameplay, completel fair. obstructing vision is fair but obstructing too much or for too long makes it feel lazy and uninteresting (imo). Creators can do whatever they want, this is all just my opinion. and you just gave your own opinion to invalidate my opinion, which is a little silly.

[@lapersongd749]

@@Jeyzor it is kinda silly but i agree to disagree i guess

[@oby0013]

New extreme demons feel like extended challenges rather than levels

[@vuice6601]

wait wait WAIT THIS VIDEO IS EXACTLY WHAT IVE BEEN THINKING FOR MONTHS

[@tsunyun5925]

I don't play Geometry Dash but I love that you used Risk of Rain 2 music

[@realchiknuggets]

This is such a ridiculous conversation

[@debmalyalodh1]

You see, my levels LIVE on certain sections. In Samsara (my top 1 submission) for example, while the level is a hell themed level, it has VERY distinct sections. like the Silent Clubstep like straightly at 21% or the DNA (Do Not Attempt) at 85%

[@KeenZorse]

People now are just chasing difficulty rather than originality , like for exemple if you take slaughterhouse , kocmoc , arcturus , and tidal wave beside the deco in terms of gameplay they all look the same , just very hard wave/miniwave for the most part of the level

[@gamergod_yt3053]

As a creator, i create almost purely layouts, and i think what flow gameplay is good when is applied, because is easier to decorate and more fun to play what old levels, i make that gameplay a lot but i stay a bit before transitions (because pure flow gp for some reason is hard to make).I like that style of gameplay because helped me a lot of how to sync and actually make something what is fun and not just a shitty 20min challenge

[@AlexitoDev-bl9cg]

To be honest, this is so true, levels have no theme, and most of them look like generic glow levels, making them forgettable.

[@supershape8510]

thank you Jeyzor, i needed this :)

[@mateopetit1745]

one of the level's that i've created and loved so much, is actually a level that has small amount of portal usage with a big purpose. I've been in this gameplay community for quite a while, i've always hated the flowy and synced gameplay pushed to the extreme. Now days, i make less levels, but better in quality of the gameplay, my best gameplay is frost atom, i encourage alot of people to go play, not just to advertise me, but to actually see by your own eyes, how using the least amount of portal can help make your level be clear to understand.

[@imStarryn]

I swear to god if i see hell themed platformer levels...

[@vladdarius2008]

i slightly disagree, i personally love fast paced fast changing gp, however you are right, to make a level stand out there should be at least 1 unique part, like Cataclysm or Bloodbath does

[@spikacobaka1705]

Jayzor speaking fax

[@FlyFlux]

Tsunami just wipes out a house casually

[@moosewhisker8072]

I feel like flow gameplay is used so much in extremes because it’s so learny, which artificially increases attempt count making the level feel harder than it actually is. Same thing with overly and unnecessarily dark levels.

[@AnotherSwissYoutubeUser]

Levels that rely on long single-mode Gameplay parts are what I enjoy, flow Gameplay just just isn't fun to learn, it's like a memory level but not really. Levels with flow Gameplay rely on your memory, you have to learn the entire level and know every Gameplay change. Back in 1.9 levels with long Gameplay parts relied on your skill of those gamemodes.

[@ElevensGD]

As much as i would disagree with your opinion about flow gameplay, I have to say that some of the points you made are great. You have to remember that a lot of people do these collabs for the sole purpose of attention, so the identity (or lack thereof) shouldn't be a surprise. I'm glad that you bring this problem up though! ^^

[@Anguloose]

4:06 i wouldnt call the ball portal useless at all. jumping into a ball portal gives you a huge boost and you go flying, which makes for some sic kand really satisfying transitions at drop parts.

[@Jeyzor]

well that is true. I was just thinking that you don't really need it becauae you could build around it not having a ball portal but that does make sense

[@Anguloose]

@@Jeyzor yeah i think its cool when you just go BOOOOOOOOM. the other things were hella useless tho.

[@Squishyman67]

Rad video!

[@LtiltV]

the problem for me with extremes nowadays isn't the game mode changes or gameplay. it's the style and color design with flashing lights. take chromatic haze for example, i cannot beat the level even tho i want to because the level is just a blurry mess due to the colors and design used.

[@LtiltV]

like bruh i even had trouble seeing cataclysm, the only reason i beat it because i remembered the gameplay of the level.

[@gabber64]

I think you just need glasses

[@joemomma822]

bro really tried add his own level in the "good level montage" and thought we wouldnt notice smh

[@Jeyzor]

well it is in line with what I'd like to see more from extreme demons tehe

[@joemomma822]

yeah no banger level lol@@Jeyzor

[@piesplazma]

JEYZOR NEW UPLOAD LET'S GOOOOO ❤❤❤

[@robianny]

pissplazma

[@AireX72_GD]

Jeyzore is back again 🎉❤❤

[@chickfilasaucegmd]

Yuko has made many unique Extremes with interesting aspects, yet they never get rated and only the red boring extreme demons get rated bc ahh so scary

[@JarmezGD]

Is the ROR2 soundtrack copyright free? I didn't know if it was allowed to be used in videos as background music

[@Jeyzor]

well I've never had any problems with the ost

[@Blueskii]

bangerrr

[@illusion6546]

in my opinion flow gameplay can be really cool if used properly. i dont like it when the whole level is just flow gameplay, thats kind of stupid, but flow gameplay is perfect when you get to ONE really intense part of the song. rather than emphasizing the gamemodes, it emphasizes the clicks and weaves gamemodes together to make all the important clicks feel important. the flow gp intimidates you, which makes it all the more worth when you eventually learn and beat it, and flow gameplay in general is just really satisfying. it gives the opportunity to emphasize major clicks, and its just a really good payoff to the beginning. imagine going through gamemode by gamemode part by part until you reach the drop, and its this giant behemoth of gp that looks impossible to play, but once you learn it and you actually can do it it feels SO good. the only problem is that its learny, but i think that just somewhat adds to the charm of it, like some overwhelming monster that youll have to overcome the hard way. (4:06 also jumping into ball portals make you jump a lot higher so its not necessarily useless here, plus its satisfying too)

[@Jeyzor]

using flow for the drop sounds like a fantastic idea. funnily enough, that would give the part an identity, rather than taking it away.

[@valkyrj_a]

​@@Jeyzorngl what he said sounds like grief (the new icedcave level)

[@dids5]

oooh thats a very good idea actually kinda like worse trip but even more flowy

[@zJannisPech]

Flow gameplay is usually really fun, and I dont think it is a bad thing that gamemodes change a lot, levels like acu, niwa or kyouki are all flow, and are really fun

[@TheGalaxyWings]

Yeah everyone remembers acu even though the drop is flow

[@bobbyp83]

it is indeed fun depending on the execution of it and personal enjoyment, however it lacks "identity" like the title suggests. Levels that spam gamemode portals are simply not as memorable as say the ones that don't, how are you supposed to say "wow that ship part was cool af" on a level where the gamemodes BARELY sticks out. Compare that to cold sweat's wave for example

[@bobbyp83]

I think a lot of people missed the point of his critique on flow gameplay. The formula itself isn't bad, just overused and saturated overtime. I remember it being unique though when wasureta was first released. Not to say that no one can enjoy it, it's just that objectively it fails to have memorability among the gameplay types.

[@TheGalaxyWings]

@@bobbyp83 that's not what he said though, he said he doesn't understand how people enjoy it as if it was objectively bad

[@nnexterr]

the real kinx from platform racing 2 has spoken

[@the_atoms5242]

I agree flow gameplay is so bad and so boring. It does make me feel better than I am when I can breeze through it, but it's usually garbage to learn and annoying to grind. Feels like playing some sorta sudo memory level. Also Heliopolis is the coolest level ever I'm so excited for it to be verified!

[@sharkbyt8806]

I must make a level with all of this

[@EmirGD8]

FINALLY! I'm not the only one who doesn't like flow gameplay (I hate the addition of Scarlet Smog in the GDDP)

[@teamok1025]

They have an identity Identity crisis.*

[@AutumnNoTaken]

Jeyzor upload WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[@lavabite2245]

6:00 I think dark red because of the extreme demon face

[@dshifter7]

hashtag return to monke For real though, I agree with all the points in your video. Overused and overdecorated building styles, senseless portal spam/click-sync, level-blinding deco, and unoriginal gameplay usage (among other nuances) just make most levels I see nowadays unapologetically boring. The current demonlist is unrecognizable to me versus where it was 1, 2, 3, even 5 years ago. There's a mountain of "top 1" layouts on KZbin that just look so unappetizing to me, and I'm recommended them all the time - the saturation and proliferation of "top 1s" that use some of the most popular/intimidating songs and gameplay concepts disgusts me to no end, there's no purpose to them if they can be churned out en-masse weekly like this. I've enjoyed making hard levels in the past - hell, I just completed my first impossible level project - but after 7 years of playing GD, I've gone from making garbage to trying to make "appealing layouts", going back to the drawing board and restricting myself to a 1.6 object-set, and only now am I beginning to make full levels and concept layouts that I can truly consider myself proud of. Learning from my long GD career, I now aim to make my projects as memorable and passionate as I possibly can, even if it would mean sacrificing difficulty. Through this lens, I can also recognize when a level I see is going to be absolute shit or not. Never again will I make a level that's made just to be a level, because that's a waste of my time and everyone else's, too. It seems as though the average GD creator never stops to think whether or not their levels will actually mean something and leave a long-term impact on others. I can't imagine being a creator point grinder; or being some S-tier creator on some team working on some project for two years, only to produce a corporatized, generic level that nobody will remember a month after release; or some lifelong creator-in-a-subcommunity dedicated to one specific creative facet within GD. You'd have to be soulless and completely devoid of passion to think these are worth your or anyone's time. Wasting your time and energy like this will make you become stale, devoid of innovation and true respect. Why has GD devolved into players encouraging each other to forego their passion and originality in the pursuit of community-wide fame, or for being at the top of a list somewhere? Why can't people go back to playing this game for fun? As an artistic medium, Geometry Dash should be about expressing and improving your creative ideas and abilities, and constantly finding new ways to achieve this. For as many terrible levels and creators as there are nowadays, there are a handful of creators that infrequently upload but have always produced projects that follow this philosophy: Zylenox, Samifying, KrmaL, rafer, Pocke, Mindcap, AuraXalaiv, and you too Jeyzor! You all give me hope that there are still people in the GD community who play this game for fun and as a genuine artistic outlet and celebrate it as such. I just wish more people stopped being children about chasing infamy and instead doubled down and made something worthwhile like you all. I can also relate this to similar problems in other creative spaces like KZbin/TikTok, developing addictions, and having a lack of purpose in life, but I'll leave you to mull over that yourself. If you've gotten to this point, thank you for reading my ramblings. Normally, I don't like to leave long messages or respond to "GD community is bad" videos, but I felt like I had to leave my input here today. I hope your day is going well.

[@AltixBR]

You brought up a really not talked about topic and made it a good point. It's good to hear that these levels are slowly dying out too. (It'll happen trust me!!) Can you heart and I'll sub ;)

[@Atav15tUnofficial]

Here are the funniest parts of the video! 3:05 Forgettable 3:14 You forget the whole thing 4:00 Useless 4:03 Useless 4:06 Useless 4:12 Useless 7:35 Unnecessarily dark 8:23 Butterflies and blue ribbons 8:26 Vignette!