F-15C Eagle: Air to Air Refueling Tutorial | DCS WORLD

[@donaldatempleton]

As a 20 year Boom Operator on the KC-135 I really enjoyed watching this.

[@voodoosunny]

what was there to see to enjoy? pls explain........20 years you should be frikkin bored....

[@donaldatempleton]

@@voodoosunny so many different receivers in so mony parts of world in different weather conditions. Testing new airplanes. Doing many orientation flights, getting to see the awe of the guest when the witness an airplane approaching for the first contact. What was not to love. Everyday was different.

[@Scott11078]

@@donaldatempleton I went Navy but I figured if the world went crazy and I changed my mind and went airforce being a boomer or a loadmaster would be the only 2 things I'd want to do. I'm pretty sure your office has the best view in the world.

[@kwarcinski87]

This is ridiculously hard, I have just started to try this in the f 15.

[@jakubdabrowski3846]

I have just done my first succesful refueling in F-15 in DCS. It's really hard, you hardly see the tanker's lights. I took the point where tanker's right wing is attached to fuselage, as the reference.

[@Error-33]

@@jakubdabrowski3846 i actually have no idea what ur talkin abt lol (obv things change over the years) when i tried my first one it was the hardest thing i did but i did see the lights

[@jakubdabrowski3846]

@@Error-33 Well, I tried to refuel my Eagle at sunny day, no clouds, and the tanker's lights were too dim. And I didn't want to zoom the view too much.

[@sparrowlt]

@@jakubdabrowski3846 i just tried for second time and just ended up embebbed into the horizontal stab :(

[@MidwestTrigga]

I just spent an hour and couldnt get connected lmao. I have a hard time keeping my speed right and height stable

[@michaelskilwies4863]

actually i’m a boomstick pilot for a kc-135 and it’s 5 minutes for a small aircraft and for a big aircraft 10-15 mins

[@grimreapers]

Awesome, thanks Sir!

[@michaelskilwies4863]

Grim Reapers OMG I WASNT EXPECTING YOU TO REPLY! if you go on my channel i posted some vids on a in flight refuel

[@sadekgheidan]

@@michaelskilwies4863 Ever refuel Raptors?

[@michaelskilwies4863]

BreakTheSilence no i usually refill A-10’s C-17 i was apart of a b-52 but didn’t refill it just watched, so fighter jets mostly

[@sadekgheidan]

@@michaelskilwies4863 still pretty cool :) may I ask you what is the most memorable or cool or stupid or funny call sign you have ever heard?

[@mecha91]

I want whoever guided cap in for that to teach me. That was brilliant guidance.

[@JollyGreenFE]

In reference to the reason why the USAF uses a boom vs probe/drogue method: Transfer rate does have some to do with it, but using a boom is actually a more stable means. When the USAF tested A/A refueling they began with the probe/drogue method and even some century series fighters (F-100, 104, 105 et al) used it. But bombers & later cargo aircrafts found it difficult to near impossible to hook into a drogue since the pilot does most of the maneuvering when attempting to contact. Therefore, the USAF chose to have aircraft just fly in close formation with the tanker & let the boom operator do all the work. In contrast, the US Navy has no large bombers to speak of plus with limited space on an aircraft carrier (& limited $$$) admirals chose not to develop a tanker with a boom installed.

[@Ironwulf2000]

Also, its a lot easier to do a buddy refuelling setup with a drogue - something which can come in handy if carrier aircraft have a few bolters and they need to get something up quick to give it some gas. Since you need drogue for that, may as well do it for everything.

[@ArtietheArchon]

the reason the AF using the boom is IMO primarily transfer rate. can you imagine trying to refuel a b-52 or B-2 with a hose it would take hours

[@EricaCalman]

The Air Force chose the boom method because (1) it can be done in all weather and (2) it can transfer fuel much faster since the seal is tighter and the pipe itself is solid metal rather than a flexible polymer.

[@Daniel-cl6hj]

Boom operator on the KC10 here. This was super fun to watch from the perspective of the receiver. I knew it was difficult for them, but now I really KNOW.

[@georgehuszka6856]

Differences: BOOM vs Probe-and-drogue Fuel flow: 2900kg vs 2040kg Communication through the boom with the boom operator Further info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_refueling I heard a story that a F-4 phantom were saved by a tanker via the boom connection, towed near airport to Iceland.

[@grimreapers]

Copy thx

[@slysi5209]

For Everyone asking The Lights are here 13:37 just above the 18 on Caps heading tape (Heading 180). To actually use them you need to zoom in a bit on them. Form up left wing with the tanker, note height and speed, fly formation with them for a min or two. Drop back a little make your radio calls - make sure they acknowledge each call. Start to get into position and now open your fuel flap, watch for the boom operator to raise the boom Note** If the boom operator doesn't raise the boom as you approach close your fuel flap drop back and radio again Note** Opening your fuel flap too early will drain your feed lines/tanks and you wont be able to take on fuel. Note** If you are hosting there is/was a bug where everyone will be able to refuel ok except the host - the boom operator will not move the boom for the host but if you can manually hook up to the static boom they will re-fuel you. This also applied to hosted single player through the mission editor (I dont think either of these issues have been fixed yet but i could be wrong). Once your settled in position with your fuel flap open zoom to the lights and make tiny corrections according to the light strips Left light strip is your vertical (up/down) position indicator Right light strip is your horizontal (fwd/aft) position indicator You want both left and right lights to be in the center of their strips Just fly the lights thats your ownly job now - the boom operator will move the boom to your fuel port Oh and WHY SO BAD STAHL

[@toadman506]

USAF originally only used the Booms for Bombers because of the higher fuel flow, Fighters were Probe only until the F-105D, then they found it was easier and cheaper to just have one system, while the KC-135 could have a drogue put on the Boom Tip, it couldnt be done in the Air, the KC-10 had provisions for Both, as will whatever the new Tanker the USAF finally decides on

[@DD-sw1dd]

The drogue is actually more dangerous. A lot of aircraft and pilots have had their aircraft severely damaged by drogues. Especially when the slack isn’t taken up fast enough. The wind causes oscillations that reverberate up the line toward the tanker and then violently back down like a whip (think of a runaway fire hose with a heavy basket on the end). Their are stories of pilots that have had the basket whip holes into their aircraft and even land with the basket stuck in the side of their aircraft. Probe is much more stable.

[@yeruschmift8422]

I can hardly imagine a thing more frustrating than air to air refuelling. Well, at least with a pretty crappy stick with a deadzone of 6 (yeah, the miserable excuses for ham hands)

[@andrevel24]

13:54 is it in?? Yes it is in..you are taking fuel. Ooohh it is in!!! I am finally taking fuel... The only scenario you would hear a man happy to be saying that.

[@encryptedaviation1452]

☠️

[@Motorman2112]

17:00 Classic misunderstanding of "flare".

[@L3AF]

Hahaha xD

[@DD-sw1dd]

If you don’t have VR but are using TrackIR I suggest you freeze/pause TrackIR (head tracking) and keep the display centered and steady while refueling. Since you have no depth perception, and the probe driver doesn’t do you any favors, it helps a lot to have a steady frame to reference your position with. Other than that, theirs always the usual suspects of setting up curves for you control inputs.

[@shapiro5000]

This is something I struggle with thank you for making this video. Now I need to give refueling a try again.

[@Joejoe-vd2do]

This makes my hands sweaty.

[@encryptedaviation1452]

Knees weak arms are heavy, there’s vomit on his sweater already moms spaghetti

[@cmibm6022]

Extremely nice for a first try. I wish I had someone to guide me like you have CAP. For now the video will do.

[@grimreapers]

Thanks CAm it's super hard

[@goreoproductions6955]

When the guy said to fly formation with the tanker, I was reminded of something I read in a book. While you are supposed to fly form with the tanker, in extreme low fuel or when you are close to bingo, a lot of them will fly fingertip with the guy refueling to reduce time to get gas.

[@William3000x]

I always find this to be one of the most beautiful (aesthetically speaking) procedures of military aviation, but for the love of God-fucking-damm, it is stressful as hell! I mean, I love the picture of this massive Boeing with a bunch of tiny little jets flying along, while one of them is taking the fuel. It's like mommy big bird feeding its little babies in mid air, everyone with their mouths wide open, waiting for the food. Hehehehe =D But, again: Goddammit! I hate the stress of struggling to keep up with such an impredictable AI, who can at any moment start a turn without even caring to warn you before hand, and then you now, suddenly, have this extra bonus difficulty of trying not to break formation with it during the entire turn, until the AI decides to level out with again no warning whatsoever. PLUS the TERRIBLE visibility of the 3D model and textures of the lights that are supposed to guide you through the entire thing, but you can't even fucking read without having to zoom all way in and immediately lose situation awareness. Another detail in this shitstorm of rage is that, at least in all cases where I've tried it, the Tanker always seems to not give a fuck what airspeed is safe and stable for the aircraft it is refueling. I was playing on a multiplayer server a few weeks ago, and decided to refuel mid-air, just for practice. But the goddamm tanker was flying no more than 180 knots IAS, at about angels 10. I was in the F-15, and you probably can guess it didn't go too well, as 180 knots is pretty much at the edge of stall speed for the F-15. So I simply couldn't keep the aircraft stabilised - and I was using the Attitude AND Altitude Hold modes of the Autopilot to aid me on flight level. Even so, it was not enough, because everytime i made a slight change on the thrust, it would make the aircraft want to climb or sink, because the AoA was already over Landing AoA, so imagine an F-15 struggling to fight against stall and at the same time trying to maintain formation with an unpredictable Tanker.

[@grimreapers]

Yup yup, must be one of the hardest things to do.

[@DefinitelyAPotato]

How are you even managing to hold such steady formation? It feels impossible without VR or TrackIR to have any idea where you are. Double that for not having a throttle/stick setup to smoothly match speed. I had no idea how to even match the speed because I couldn't see what it was, and the numbers didn't match between the radar panel and hud.

[@grimreapers]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iWqmoneGoq5mmMU may help

[@colonelkloof4105]

A formation flying tutorial would be nice too

[@grimreapers]

Hmm I haven't thought about that. I'll have a think

[@dixonjamesofficial]

13:37 That's what she said

[@MeatBeatElite]

q

[@198bhaskar]

They chose the boom because the US military wanted a refueling method with a higher flow rate than the drogue method for its long range bombers.

[@NonnoJaco]

Ehm there are on the bottom nose of the refuel airplane indicators for stay allaing for the refuel right position, you need to just zoom it.

[@flayling7221]

Dude your F5 tutorials saved my live!!!!

[@grimreapers]

Pleasure

[@Jojooooooo]

I was trying this earlier but only just realised I didn't open the port

[@0_iAlmighty_0]

How do you get the fuel tanker to cone to you ingame?

[@Papershields001]

Considering that the USAF uses the boom because it pumps so much faster. I wonder how long it takes for Bear bombers to refuel using the probe and drogue? Must take forever.

[@grimreapers]

Lol good lord yes

[@lucasjeffery2390]

If the bomber is empty of fuel it takes 43 minutes to refuel fully and 105 minutes to refuel at longest. Based this off of the transfer rate of the il78 and the 95,000 litre capacity of the bear bomber. I don't think they have to refuel that often because they have a range of 12,000km

[@Papershields001]

lucas jeffery that’s a good point. A full refuel would be kinda crazy for a plane that size, but I was reading about a flight of 4 Bears and a Tanker that flew right into the California ADIZ and buzzed San Fransisco in 2015. Assuming they took off from Ukrainka that’s like a 16,000km round trip, so they have to tank sometimes.

[@lucasjeffery2390]

Rory Shields they'd definitely refuel sometimes or else they wouldn't have the refuelling probe I just think it's rare for them to need to refuel.

[@kiloalphaone2622]

I open the communications menu (I use '\'), but there is not tanker option.

[@sadekgheidan]

Then there is no tanker present in the mission.

[@blackknight3311]

BreakTheSilence Yes

[@Chaos8282]

I'm at the point in the campaign where I am making strikes into Russia, and am having to send my flight to refuel. Figured I would learn and practice while I was at it.

[@xToxette]

How do you go the same speed as the Tanker. I’ve been trying to Air to Air refuel and i can’t keep still behind the plane

[@danczehajek9165]

Zarius I think J is auto throttle so try that

[@encryptedaviation1452]

This is gonna be great when the KC-130J is released!

[@ΓιαννηςΖ-ξ4ρ]

I trie to air refuel with a kc135 but it doesn't lower the broom thing to reach me instead it tries to refuel me like a su or a f35 with the thing that's floating. Can anybody tell me how to fix it?

[@methink7225]

you are trying to refuel with a kc135 mprs

[@ΓιαννηςΖ-ξ4ρ]

@@methink7225 Yep I was but I fixed it

[@seductivecorndog6089]

Please don't get frustrated with me, I'm new to DCS and the F-15... can someone please tell me how i get the speed well aligned with the tanker, I always keep falling back or zooming forward when I try to get up next to it. Thanks!

[@grimreapers]

search "grim reapers formation flying tutorial"

[@lucchesi87]

One tip... Try not to look at the instruments... Keep throttling up and down as you "feel" your speed relative to the target... And don't beat yourself too hard, formation alone is hard to achieve, A/A refueling is harder... Just keep practicing and eventually you'll get the hang of it...

[@seand2069]

I thought the tanker orbit was always left hand turns...no?

[@grimreapers]

I 've never thought about it tbh

[@JD53AL]

Nice video guys keep up the good work

[@grimreapers]

thx

[@captainalex0018]

0:36 This is the reason why we are watching this video

[@imposter0shadow]

Yea I can't get this to work . Turned my curve up to 30 and everything and as soon as I line up behind the tanker my plane starts becoming uncontrollable. Any slight input sends it crazy. Tried over and over multiple times. Just guess I'll never play refueling missions

[@Teh509]

Cap - 'Is it in yet?'

[@rossolinger4477]

Hey What is your gaming pc set up? It would be so much easier if I was able to run DCS at 60 fps in my VR. I'm getting like 45-50 right now

[@SPFLDAngler]

This wasn't a tutorial this was a demonstration with quick explanations..

[@hunterhalo2]

Do the pilot director lights work in game?

[@grimreapers]

yes but you have to have better eyes than me to use them

[@L3AF]

You said you cant se the lights for the boom its like 1 pixel. Neither can i, what am i suppose to be looking for?

[@grimreapers]

Somewhere at the front I believe you have to zoom in, I don't have a solution either

[@MrNicoPela]

That was awesome. Maybe a guide on the Mirage 2000C? Is it like with the SU's?

[@grimreapers]

Will put a vid up asap

[@F22raptor46]

I hope with the new SOH map we get the Iranian KC-707 tanker and KC-747 tankers as assets ;)

[@MrKilled1]

I cant mid air refuel... :( crappy Logitech 3d stick is way to sensitive.... Any advice other than buy a better stick?

[@colonelkloof4105]

MrKilled1 have you adjusted the pitch and roll curve?

[@grimreapers]

Add +25 to the curves and you;ll be fine. See out Controls Setting Up vid in Educational playlist

[@holdenfox312]

13:37 haha love that

[@Mulberry2000]

great video

[@cryx4]

I wish the boom operator would count you in like they do IRL. i.e 20...10...5...contact

[@daniyalamed2960]

Why TF my f15 moves so much when u try to fly in formation. It just fucking keeps going up and down and it's really hard to stabilize it

[@daniyalamed2960]

One year later i know why it happens. I have fixed that problem now.

[@skullTRTR]

I am sorry cap but you should not have put this into tutorial section. This is not a refueling tutorial this is just a refueling footage.

[@dixonjamesofficial]

11:45 a random noob

[@grimreapers]

lol copy

[@bbull71]

I wouldn't do that. I'm CAP 👏

[@Power1482VIDSSTUDIOPOWER]

Why do they sound like they don’t want u there like u were flying formation with the jet instead of the tanker and they got pissed about it and u didn’t know

[@JoeSmith-zv4ic]

I want to enjoy DCS but I find it so dull and the graphics in Vr especially the ground are just awful :(

[@Stahlwollvieh]

Why are you so bad Stah... oh, wait...

[@grimreapers]

lol silly Stahl

[@snowman374th]

Thumb up wildman! Nice camera work!

[@basicpilot4006]

why are you so bad stal

[@grimreapers]

We're great. now go make me a Harrier A2A refuel vid tender

[@danczehajek9165]

Grim Reapers how does the Harrier a2a refuel?

[@nicholasytl]

WHY ARE YOU SO BAD STAL

[@grimreapers]

LOL