F-35 Crash at Hill AFB AIB Report Review

Deuce (F-35/F-16) Instructor Pilot joins Mover and Gonky to break down the F-35A Accident Investigation Report that was recently released for the mishap at Hill AFB. Every Monday at 8PM ET, Mover (F-16, F/A-18, T-38, 737, helicopter pilot, author, cop, and wanna be race car driver) and Gonky (F/A-18, T-38, A320, dirt bike racer, author, and awesome dad) discuss everything from aviation to racing to life and anything in between. Guest co-host Deuce (F-35/F-16/A-320 Pilot) joins us!
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The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement.
Views presented are my own and do not represent the views of DoD or its Components.

[@alanholck7995]

Concerning the inverted ejection- when I was at Kadena mid 1990s F-15 pilot ejected 45 degrees from inverted at about 500 feet altitude. Was way out of seat envelope, but he ended up going sideways, chute snagged on tree and he swung down like Tarzan. Wasn’t his day to die. But wait, there’s more. At other end of airfield was the very last Vietnam-era HH-3 warming up for one of its last flights before heading to boneyard in a few weeks. The training flight rapidly evolved into a ‘Boys, we’re putting the band back together for one last gig’ session; charged in & picked up the pilot.

[@roderickcampbell2105]

Hello Alan. That is one beautiful story. Long may he run. And his comrades too. It would be funny if a Jane was aboard the HH-3 and Jane rescued Tarzan.

[@LRRPFco52]

That guy is lucky. Did he return to status?

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

Summer of '08, I was still flying combat missions in Iraq in '63 model C-130's. On good days, we got lucky with a '93 model.

[@michaelnewell9662]

in 2017, Kadena was still flying a 1958 model KC-135

[@michaelloforti7027]

“Wake Turbulence Procedures in effect” was very common on ATIS especially at training bases such as F-16 FTU. It was a chapter 8 thing which means it was probably an AETC or local rule & not AF wide. Low winds cause wake turbulence to park usually right on the glide path on landing aircraft. Aircraft would increase spacing to allow turbulence to dissipate or sink.

[@imaner76]

"Sometime automation will fail us" Let that sink in. Tools can fail, be the operator.

[@gtmike916]

Congratulations on 400k!!!!

[@CWLemoine]

Thank you!

[@christianfuller5653]

This happened on my shift (base ops) and ringing out the crash phone was frightening not knowing if the pilot survived or not. Glad he did!

[@pollylewis9611]

Thank you again for all of your insight into this accident.

[@moonasha]

can we just take a moment to appreciate the signed name at the end of this document is "Lord Kevin" 🤣

[@wpbjim]

Deuce is a man of few words.

[@Trigger11]

I was working a grave shift as a cop, the call was on my screen for days. Glad the pilot got out.

[@WestCoastBuc]

I used to live just down the road from Hill AFB and would watch planes fly over almost every day. Never got to see the 35s fly I moved away before Hill got them. I'm glad the pilot made it out ok.

[@LRRPFco52]

They are so much louder than Vipers and that's a good thing.

[@dazherbert2782]

These are cool discussions.

[@floridahdshooter]

Love these serie.. very entertaining and informative. I have been following these enough to see patterns. LIke most of not all I have watched = Pilot Error. When is said erroneous data due to wake turbulence cause degraded flight control. I am like wow, cool they said the plane fucked up.. then .. Largest contribting factor = Pilot did not follow wake turbulence procedures, ahhh there it is! Of course I am paraphrashing the details but you get the idea.

[@davesolomon2503]

What happens to the pilot after a report like this? Does their career get impacted and can they fly the F-35 again or are the grounded? Thanks. Love your content. All the best.

[@r9xh]

He wasn't deemed at fault, so he'll be flying again once he's good medically. He might have to go to different squadrons and tell them about his landing separation messup though

[@benjaminnevins5211]

Woah! That's scary.

[@theraptorsnest5891]

Ol' Deuce was on fire for this video!! LOL.

[@Lochaby]

Are you gonna report on the f35B mishap that went spinning around on the ground when it comes out?

[@DaydreamNative]

Did DoD make you change the disclaimer at the start?

[@mennnok]

Dit you think the beacon on F-35 just doesn't work at all? _The aircraft beacon was not heard on the radio by any witness who testified or on MF data recorders (Tabs V-5.2.5 and CC-1.4). Other than the beacon, all AFE operated correctly and was recovered for post mishap analysis (Tabs J-4.9 and J-5.15)._

[@afterburner119]

Congrats @ mover. It’s funny how true it is about eyewitness reports on this. Everyone thought it was the engine….. that’s Ft. Worth getting it right 😂.

[@XSaintsofDoomX]

This was a 421st FGS jet before it crashed btw

[@thevictoryoverhimself7298]

“Legs? That’s not a cool callsign” I was under the impression (not a military pilot) that callsigns specifically were not supposed to be cool. That on the contrary they’re usually mocking or about an embarrassing or at least referencing an interesting story about the pilot.

[@CWLemoine]

Not flying callsigns.

[@moonasha]

legs is the name of the flight, not the pilot's name

[@PicardoFamily11]

If I recall correctly from my time in the Air Force, flight call signs are fixed based on your base and the type of aircraft that you're flying.

[@christianfuller5653]

a few weeks after this mishap they flew under the same callsign and had an IFE for hydraulic issue. They haven't flown since that second IFE

[@lancedooley9304]

I was working for the 419th FW wing this happened.

[@andresilvasophisma]

Deuce has a bunch of classic guitars there, missing a Telecaster. Guess there should be more clearence between the Legs.

[@Deuce_Dufresne]

Valid, maybe one day…

[@afterburner119]

3:15 well isn’t Kristin “Beo” Wolfe out there…. Legs could very much be 😂🤣.

[@viperdriver82]

The Viper had a rash of crashes when it just came out

[@LRRPFco52]

143 total losses with 71 fatalities in its first 10 years of service alone.

[@viperdriver82]

@@LRRPFco52 indeed

[@indy500tabasco8]

F35 badass. We need more Raptors

[@vash_the_stampede6570]

Raptor is finished,L&M is developing something that will go further beyond that will surpass it.

[@lippertwe]

was the pilot reprimanded or punished in any way? it seems like he should not have been, but i'd be interested to know the disciplinary outcome.

[@moonasha]

if it's like any other mishap I heard, he probably went on a lecturing tour to tell others what caused the mishap, so others don't repeat the mistake.

[@isodoublet]

@@moonasha Ritual humiliation and good prophylactics all in one. Very efficient

[@dafox0427]

Sounds like an Airbus mishap report from many years ago where the computer didsn't allow the pilot to actually fly the aircraft.

[@markcoveryourassets]

So, instead of pilot ejects aircraft. it's aircraft rejects pilot.

[@user-ee1fn4vt8b]

Wake turbulence resulting in the flight computer dooming the plane into the ground? That's scary. You'd think the flight computer programming would be a little more robust than that. edit: Good to know the flight computer was smart enough to realize it was in degraded conditions.

[@2Phast4Rocket]

LockMart probably wants hundreds of millions to fix the software bug. I was told the software is LM proprietary and the government doesn't own it.

[@LetoDK]

I think many people don't fully realize that these things are going to happen more and more, and it can't be any different. The systems are becoming more and more complex, and the stuff that can go wrong grows experimentally. These are just operating costs, and will only increase as complexity increases. The alternative is reducing complexity, but that comes at the cost of not being able to defend against threats, so there's no point.

[@Fox-One1937]

5:32 any 🇨🇵 here ?

[@XSaintsofDoomX]

I heard rumors that I am sot sure to be true that this could have been attributed to the fuel rating used

[@alasdairmunro1953]

Maybe he was a ZZ-Top fan? 😂

[@Retrocharacter18]

Did another F-35 crash?

[@CurlyJ49523]

What is it with pilots and yellow walls? Are you all just chilling at Mover's house? That would mean Gonky's crappy internet is really Movers crappy internet!?

[@CWLemoine]

My wall is a tan/beige. Could be the lighting. Could be your monitor. Or maybe you're color blind. 😂

[@CurlyJ49523]

@@CWLemoine as a 466FS Diamondback I only see yellow and black.

[@liberatumplox625]

That's a lot of money for a joyride in a chair. Glad nobody was hurt.

[@HAWKSTA24]

Dang, I can’t believe you’re clowning on someone with a call sign “legs” saying it’s not cool but somehow “mover” screams bad ass. 🤣

[@CWLemoine]

It’s better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. Perhaps you should at least understand what was said before you say something stupid.

[@antwnhs._.4366]

another one?💀

[@tranquilreverie203]

It was last year

[@Fox-One1937]

​@@tranquilreverie203how many in 2023?

[@forzaelite1248]

Only 13 or so over the course of 15+ years and 600,000 flight hours is a record I desperately wish more aircraft had...

[@LRRPFco52]

​@@forzaelite1248Only 7 F-35s of all 3 variants have burned-in since 2006. 1. F-35B out of MCAS Beaufort 2. F-35A out of JADF Japan 3. F-35A out of Eglin, pilot bounced it off the runway with "cruise control" left on at over 203kts 4. F-35B mid-aired with a KC-130 trying to Aerial Refuel 5. F-35B went into the drink off Queen Elizabeth due to engine cover left in or ingested 6. F-35C pilot tried to do a sh*t hot turn brake without engaging Delta flight path control, ramp-struck the boat 7. F-35A at Hill in the landing pattern departed controlled flight 7 crashes of 3 different variants, 1 fatality.. in almost 17 years of flight. That's unheard of for fighters...fairytale low mishap/loss rates. It's never been this good before. We lost 143 F-16s with 71 fatalities during its first 10 years of service.

[@melvynbrightmore5097]

Why is no one learning from past events ! Learning form past events equals incremental improvements

[@pdxholmes]

Say what now? You look at a plane like the F-35, leaps forward in ways we couldn't imagine 40 years ago over something like the F-16, and think people aren't learning past lessons? Did it ever occur to you that when pushing the boundaries of any human endeavor, sometimes you need to learn new lessons? They only got the point of pushing the state of the art by learning from things done in the past. The idea that something like the F-35 or F-22 exists without learning lessons from past experience is illogical on it's face.

[@LRRPFco52]

F-16 had 143 airframe losses with 71 fatalities in its first 10 years of service. I'd say the people behind the F-35 program have learned far more than the average observer could ever imagine.

[@markcoveryourassets]

That's good news to know. Never heard those comparisons before. Thanks for sharing. I'm curious about approach spacing at low tail winds or no winds. I understand there's a lot to keep track of. How about remembering the training on those wind conditions well enough to consider separation even if it is not ordered and to request clarification or permission to adjust spacing. That's probably what will be reinforced in future training.

[@LRRPFco52]

@@markcoveryourassets In Utah, we typically always have some wind blowing. If you have dead air and a disturbed path from the previous jet that hasn't been carried away by the wind, I can see how this situation arose unexpectedly.

[@viperdriver82]

Guess what ...and I'm out this motha....

[@nolanshockley7674]

Another F-35 crash hmm? Looks like Amy turned out to be a multi-billion dollar device for finding the ground. Glad the pilot is ok.

[@LRRPFco52]

All 3 variants are dramatically safer than the fighters they're superseding. We lost at least 519 teen fighters with 189 fatalities in their first 10 years of collective service. With F-35s, we've only had 7 impact the surface with airframe write-off, 1 fatality in Japanese Defense Forces. 945+ F-35s have been delivered logging 710,000 flight hours so far. Safer than F-22A, F-15, and Super Hornet.

[@FazdArayTrkRdrtoInterceptOnTgt]

You should look up the mishap rate/flight hour compared to other aircraft. It makes your comment even more ignorant.

[@JK-dv3qe]

female pilot this time as well? or maybe a male pilot that identified as female?

[@barbarian_bloviator]

Not sure what you mean here, but I know some great female pilots.

[@roderickcampbell2105]

JK, I find your comment very offensive, but I suppose you're trolling. I do know what Mover will make of it. Perhaps you are just a decent person but is identifying as an asshole.

[@JK-dv3qe]

@@barbarian_bloviator are they real female or do they only identify as female?

[@RW-zn8vy]

@@barbarian_bloviatordon’t pay it any attention

[@Fox-One1937]

I guess à femal rape you once

[@jamieaulbach5120]

The CV-22 that crashed at Hurby had almost the same issue and it caused the crash.

[@steveweinstein4086]

I may have missed some of this so apologize but did the pilot face an FEB ? It’s not the Air Force I remember to call it a flesh wound and let’s fight on