F/A-18 Super Hornet & SM-6

Mover, WOMBAT, and Gonky discuss an article regarding an F/A-18 carrying around an SM-6 missile.
Every Monday at 8PM ET, Mover (F-16, F/A-18, T-38, 737, helicopter pilot, author, cop, and wanna be race car driver) and Gonky (F/A-18, T-38, A320, dirt bike racer, author, and awesome dad) discuss everything from aviation to racing to life and anything in between.
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Views presented are my own and do not represent the views of DoD or its Components.

[@keyboard_g]

Put one of the GAU 8s pointed backwards to give it some extra thrust.

[@sferrin2]

A shame they cancelled the Phoenix's replacement back in the day. The General Dynamics/Westinghouse AIM-152 would have fit the bill perfectly.

[@lefty59th18]

And now you have METEOR, it only took 20 years more :D

[@v8packard]

​@@lefty59th18Meteor has it's origins in the Hughes version of the AAAM, test flown by the F-14 in the 1980s.

[@Trve_Kvlt]

Well, the JATM is making progress. Shouldn't be too much longer before it enters service.

[@eddgar-ce3md]

@@v8packard How does the Meteor have its origins in the Hughes version ? As far as I know, the Hughes/Raytheon proposal lost the bid.

[@v8packard]

@@eddgar-ce3md The process was quite political, going so far as to have direct involvement from a US president. Basically, President Clinton agreed to transfer the technology Hughes/ARC/Alliant developed for the AAAM to the UK team at BAE. This was before Matra and BAE merged to form MBDA. Hughes hoped to at least get a partial contract for the seeker. In the end, the government of the UK and Germany chose components from different sources to make up what became Meteor, including the propulsion section design of what had been the US AAAM now built by Aerospatiale via a technology transfer. At this point Raytheon had bought Hughes, and wanted to provide a derivative of AMRAAM for the competition, as they didn't care about AAAM technology that they were not producing. Look up some pictures of the AAAM being flight tested and fired by F-14s at the Pacific Missile Test Center. One version looks much like a Meteor mounted on the glove station of the Tomcat.

[@BrandosRides]

The b52 J will have the same radar as the super hornet....maybe it's doing testing for that.

[@adambydand1214]

Could you imagine? Sukhois flying to intercept B-52 bombers, only to get painted and launched on by them from 250 miles away. 😂

[@Gunsncarsnstuff]

I came here to hear what experienced fighter pilots had to say on the topic and they talked mainly about how it looked. The networked enabled, very long range missile can target HVAA as well as ballistic missiles in terminal phase, cruise missiles (with third party targeting data from E-2D) fighters and bombers, as well as surface targets. This is probably an important component to the NIFC-CA program and capable of “forward pass” cooperative targeting with the F-35C. But the experts wanted to talk about how it looked.

[@33moneyball]

They’re reaction is essentially “this is never happening” and guess what…they’re likely right.

[@Gunsncarsnstuff]

@@33moneyball No, they are uninformed. This missile is already at IOC. It will be called AIM-174B. Inert versions were carried by Super Hornets from CVW-2 during RIMPAC this year, but there is strong evidence that the weapon is operational with aircraft flying from Carl Vinson.

[@XJapa1n09]

These people have never heard of psychological warfare. 🤦🏻‍♂️ They watch sandboxx and think they know everything. Anything can be flown on a plane, in no way does that mean it has anything to do with reality or the future. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤣 But if it’s on a plane with a designator it’s gotta be true right? Right?!

[@Gunsncarsnstuff]

@@XJapa1n09 so what would make it true to you? Give it an official designator…..nope. Testing it for years…….nope. Fly it in large scale exercise…….nope, still not convinced. You guys are silly. I’m sure they are spending millions of dollars for testing this for “psychological warfare” (for what purpose exactly?) I’m sure when they kill something with it you’ll say “anyone can kill something with a missile, that doesn’t mean it’s real”.

[@Gunsncarsnstuff]

@@XJapa1n09 So they test the missile for 5 years, that doesn’t meet your criteria for being real, they give it a designation as a program of record and that doesn’t meet your standard as real, they fly it in large scale exercises and you still say, nope not real “they can fly anything”. You think it’s a 5 year multi-million dollar psyop. Lol. For what intended effect? You guys are silly civilians.

[@sparrowlt]

Now where did i saw this "lets fit a really long range SAM into a fighter jet to have longer BVR capability" before? [Hawk in Tomcat intensifies]

[@ailouros6669]

Maybe it's an attempt by the Navy to introduce an interim long-range supersonic antiship missile capability since the SM-6 can also be fired at surface targets like ships, just like its SM-1 and SM-2 predecessors.

[@kaiki8318]

That makes sense actually... This may be a proof of concept for something hypersonic possibly?

[@ailouros6669]

@@kaiki8318 Yep, very possible. The Navy do have a requirement for a hypersonic Harpoon replacement IIRC.

[@eddgar-ce3md]

Apparently they are preparing to sink a decommissioned ship with it in the coming days.

[@raywhitehead730]

For about 2 years I have been aware that the US military has been developing about 6 new air to air missiles. 2 kinds are very long range and two kinds are very short (physically) to fit into the weapons bay of stealth jets. I don't know anything about the capability of the others . But very long range hits were scored on the Range off the Coast of California about a year ago. Those hits were over a hundred miles.

[@codedlogic]

I don’t think it’s for taking out other fighter pilots as much as it is for high value assets like in an AWAK or command and control platform.

[@DollyRanch]

What does the K stand for?

[@codedlogic]

@@DollyRanch Just speech to text malfunction. Supposed to be AWAC

[@DollyRanch]

@@codedlogic you forgot the S, it's AWACS

[@mmeade9402]

AWACS/Tankers/Bombers/Transports... any of the large fat and slow high value targets.

[@anonymoususernumber4]

Not the first time they've tried this. AGM-78 - air-launched Standard Missile that was replaced by the HARM. They also tried the AIM-97 which never entered production, as the MiG-25 wasn't the superjet that they thought it was.

[@wannabedal-adx458]

Thank you. I'm glad someone mentioned this!

[@7gmeister]

You laugh but Iran strapped a hawk onto the F-14 for a while when they ran out of Phoenix and couldn’t get anymore

[@hoghogwild]

AIM-54 was retired in 2004, 2 years prior to the F-14.

[@v8packard]

And then un-retired a few years after for a NASA test and flown on a F-15, amazingly.

[@hoghogwild]

@@v8packard The civilians used them as hypersonic testbeds. ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20060004771/downloads/20060004771.pdf

[@FS2K4Pilot]

The AIM-174 also has anti-ship capability, and twice the range of the AGM-84.

[@AirShark95]

And some limited air-to-ground capabilities too

[@Ripper13F1V]

They have a long range AMRAAM, -D3 ER version, but the advanced derivitive is the AIM-260. That just finished being qual'd on the Rhino. So wondering if there is an issue with that program that would keep it being fielded operationally in the needed numbers. JATM was thought to have a greater range and PK envelope than that of the old phoenix so 150 miles maybe? But the SM6, that is a whole other ball game range wise. Also gives the ability for the initial targeting to be passed from a ship or AWACS to a loitering aircraft well outside the hostile airspace. Things that make you go hmmmm for sure.

[@hertzwave8001]

possible dual purpose weapon that can be used against naval/ground targets as well

[@NeroontheGoon]

The most glaring problem would be the financial one the nation is currently facing. $34 BIG in debt, even the morons in the military hierarchy can’t dodge that one!

[@solarissv777]

I wonder if they could fit into the B21's weapons bay?

[@Ripper13F1V]

@@solarissv777 possibly since it should be able to carry the GBU-43 that's 30 ft long, SM6 is 21 feet. But we'll see..

[@cnknguyen]

Imagine retiring the long range a/a program and not having a suitable replacement nearly 20 years later. DoD prerogative to a T. I think they should build a ultra supermax carrier and launch B-1s off the sumbitch, A B-1 with GAU-8 wing pods. YEAAAA. lol

[@eddgar-ce3md]

Well, the West has no enemies besides some dudes in pick-up trucks, so why would you ...oh, wait.

[@nycshelbygt500]

All of the SM series USN missiles have advanced datalinks that work with the Aegis Radar Weapons System. It would be interesting to learn how the AIM-174B AAM datalinks work with multiple F/A-18E/Fs, F-35B/Cs, Aegis Destroyers/Cruisers, and E-2D Hawkeyes for cooperative engagements. Ex. The shooter doesn't have to paint the target with its own radar.

[@nycshelbygt500]

The SM-6 uses the active seeker from the AIM-120 AMRAAM, with twice the size/diameter (7 in to 13 in). It also adds GPS Guidance for precision strike and anti-ship missions. So the AIM-174B AAM is actually a super-sized AMRAAM with a massive BVR capability. It is possible the AIM-174B will also be carried on the F-35C on the wing pylons,. It won't fit as an internal carriage AAM. The SM-6 has a 13 inch diameter. It will get an upgrade to 21 inches, like the SM-3 and still fit in a VLS cell. . That increases the range dramatically. The SM-3 has a range over 1200 km. The USN can do the same to the SM-6 AIM-174 AAM. The SM-6 mass is about 3300 lbs.

[@richardnicklin654]

It’s not just range that drives the diameter of SM-6 - it has a huge radar aperture and a significant warhead. Against a low RCS target that’s useful.

[@user-qn3xu5ee3t]

Doesn't it use aim-120 seeker?

[@richardnicklin654]

The seeker control software and processors were almost all lifted from the AIM-120C, but the emitter and receiver were enlarged, the AMRAAM’s aperture is ~18cm while SM-6’s is more like 34cm in diameter. Remember, what matters is the area of the receiver, so doubling the radius quadruples the area and the amount of reflected energy that can be received - handy when the opponent has a low radar cross section or is far away.

[@brianwright9514]

",.. Then you could just derate the motors and.." It's a hornet! The motors are already derated! 😂

[@DOGosaurus_rex]

Back in the day they tested a patriot on an f15

[@everypitchcounts4875]

What is going on with the new Cuda missile, Peregrine missile, LRE missile, AIM-260, SIAW, Mutant missile?

[@shveylien7401]

Hear me out... MLRS with JSOW.

[@fmatson]

The 30mm gunpod exists. The GPU-5/A, it was tested in the F-16 in the 80's when the AF was talking about using it to replace the A-10. Results were....not great.

[@chesty1369]

Just strap a HIMARS pod on the bottom for Pete's sake.

[@LuqmanHM]

Previously you guys think that PL17 cant hit anything at the super long ranges, well i bet you guys would say the same about SM-6

[@lpdirv]

At this point the airforce might as well add SM6 to their Awacs. Crazy but maybe not really crazy. F15 EX would be a good missile truck. Sadly, this clip didn’t really add any insight other than drag is bad. Could have discussed data link, distributed targeting etc etc. thats where things are going.

[@stevenwalker4181]

You need a long stick…the AIM-54C was a great weapon that never got to show its potential mostly due to ROE restrictions at the time…The SM-6 is one heck of a good missile…so I think it’s a great idea to expand the counter air capabilities of the CSG…need to think bigger than a Hornet in isolation here…

[@Murph_gaming]

I mean the AIM 260 is supposed to be a thing at some point and the SuperHornet will be one the platforms that uses it.

[@Milesobrian]

with the new radar, can the b-52 launch air to air?

[@Tome275]

probably but its classified most likely

[@Fng_1975]

Yes, the J model will have the ability to conduct air to air offensive operations.

[@fd009597]

GUA8 drone

[@michaelkaylor6770]

Just hear me out... two GAU-8s mounted laterally in a C2, and get a Combat Wombat?

[@major__kong]

Don't worry. You're getting the AIM-260 soon.

[@bigearl3867]

I wonder if this will fit inside the Navy's 6th gen fighter, or possibly the B-21?

[@RLDenham]

A F/A-18E from VFA-192, the “Golden Dragons,” was seen at Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam with AIM-174B missile under each wing during the biennial Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) exercise.

[@Achromania]

Maybe it's an analog for future hypersonics? You know, a dry fit. Hypersonics are known to be quite large, maybe this was a way for them to get data on flight characteristics of the F-18 with an outsized load? IDK, I just find it hard to believe their seriously thinking abt air deploying SM6 missiles.

[@MrPnhartley]

Perhaps we could build a large fighter to carry 4or 6 of these…maybe with swing wings, perhaps call it Tomcat! Oh wait, we had one but scrapped it.

[@randysearle2702]

AIM-260 is the long burn slammer, and its nearly in service fellas.

[@RaiderNate]

It’s not for fighter V fighter combat it’s meant to take a long range pop shot at awacs

[@44bgood]

Hey boys, per navy....this thing is operationally deployed. Not just a test world thing

[@M_Swoles]

How many can the f-15 carry?

[@billbrockman779]

Look back at the Standard ARM on the Wild Weasels.

[@PatrickLipsinic]

Don't forget that this is not the first time the standard missile was launched off a jet. It goes back to Vietnam, where they had the Standard ARM that the USAF used. Plus the one in the photo doesn't have the booster and doesn't weigh as much as the SM6 used on ships with the booster. From what I can find. It's 3300lbs with the booster. How much is it without the booster?

[@marktisdale7935]

Algorithmic engagement comment.

[@themoverandgonkyshow]

Mark you rule!

[@C420sailor]

ASAT weapon?

[@llamathrust8646]

Still haven't tested the dual missile pylon 8x SM6s baby (dont worry about max take off weight its a recommendation only)

[@Karl427]

They actually had 30mm Gun pods 😎

[@vxe6vxe6]

A GAU-8 equipped Superhornet would have the Superbug hovering when shooting it.

[@user-qn3xu5ee3t]

A GAU-8 equipped Superhornet would become a Superhognet

[@paulpoulsen8304]

Isn't the AIM 260 in production?

[@willwozniak2826]

Interesting...is this new SM 6 Block IB in testing?...it doesn't look like a SM 6 on the Navy ships...interesting..nice video.

[@corystansbury]

Isn't SM6 bigger than any Patriot variant?

Hear me out, carrier-based C-130 with built-in rotary SM-6 launcher

[@corvanphoenix]

All big weapons look weird on hornets since their weapon stations aren't parallel with the fuselage.

[@fourthhorseman4531]

AIM-260 still in the works?

[@kaiki8318]

Give the Hornet the Tomcat Doomsday Loadout😊 or maybe a proof of concept for something hypersonic? Maybe I'm out of touch but might as well bring back the Intruder and Skyraider...or the Tomcat... It's what the people need!

[@joshuabrook-harding978]

They'll get this massive missile to work and then watch this space for the F15EX(N) 😂

[@swayzefan3600]

i personally think the B-21 will be the NGAD. long legs for the pacific, massive range, big payload, powerful sensors, extra power for direct energy weapons (offensive and defensive) and most of all - all the new long range missiles in development (or SM-6 ;). it cant dogfight but with the situational awareness and all the above it should never need to. also has an extra crew member aboard so handling loyal wingman with extra munitions and sensors that can fly ahead of the aircraft- makes a lot more sense than a single pilot trying to manage. imagine being able to take off from a base well outside of most of china's missiles like hawaii and austrailia and being able to perform CAP over the south china sea. i know a lot of people will get butthurt about it not being able to pull cool tricks at airshows but the new missiles (and especially once direct energy weapons get mounted) thats irrelevant.

[@gregduncan]

'You make one plane that does everything poorly.' The Chinese and Russians already have that with the Flankers.

[@feetpiece_704]

It's like a JRE Dogfight companion

[@karenfay4545]

What good do LONG RANGE missiles do if rules of engagement require VISUAL identification before it can be launched?

[@major__kong]

Visual is out the window for the China fight. The initial salvos will be BVR because if we don't they will. I don't know of anyone talking about visual ID for the Pacific fight.

[@karenfay4545]

@@major__kongTrue, but it still remains that if the pussy dunderheads at the top are as they have been in the past worrying themselves sick about accidentally making a boo boo or pissing an opponent off by mistake. You may as well leave the long range missies at home. If we are going to use BVR we better well be prepared DAME WELL USE THEM! Not the policy level ENDLESSLY wringing their hands that we might bruise our Boo Boo by requiring visual ID.

[@djsmith2871]

If you put 2 x GAU-8 pods on a SH and fired them, the SH would go backwards

[@johnhermann7498]

So essentially they are bringing out a modernized AGM-78 and using it for A2A... Noice... Oh... and there was a GAU-8-ish pod back in the 80s... The Marines had them at one point. They are probably sitting in a warehouse somewhere.

[@posmoo9790]

You're gonna need to get a better radar on the super hornet I would think.

[@sparrowlt]

You can fire with datalink without radar..with the range of that thing launched airbone high you can be on the other side of the AO and fire from behind at assets inside iluminated by destroyers or AWACS or Raptors/FatAmys

[@ItzRetro2019]

Aim 260 D is the Air force new missile

[@mmeade9402]

Realistically, its not that bad an idea. If you wanna go fast and turn hard, yeah it might make your jet less fun, but if you want to hit an adversary AWACS or tanker, at ultra long range.... Ive seen worse ideas. Potential 300km range launched from the ship, put it at altitude and already going pretty quick and suddenly the kinematics look even better... If you have some way to queue it onto the target at those extreme ranges, it could be useful.

[@Samson373]

250 nautical miles is 288 regular miles.

[@nycshelbygt500]

#FOX_SIX!!!!

[@MattH-wg7ou]

Just give me the frikken JATM already! Or buy some damn Meteors...

[@ajetauto5592]

Make phenix missile great again

[@briantoplessbar4685]

I am just going to pretend this is just declassified stuff that they show. And the competent stuff is a classified. Right?

[@SavageTactical]

The dude who is saying the airplane looks sad and they should just make a bigger AMRAAM (apparently he had never heard of the AIM-120D or the AIM-260) needs to take a midol and eat a pint of ice cream.

[@ypw510]

They’ve actually flown these aircraft before with big ordnance loads. They’re clearly commenting on how poorly the aircraft fly when loaded down with everything. I go back to their Top Gun: Maverick reaction videos where they say there’s no way they speed up with just two bombs and external tanks. I’d think most of us know how a car handles when loaded down with maximum passengers and cargo.

[@Anarchy_420]

AIM-260 JATM

[@edwardlloyd9468]

Sounds like the Navy regrets getting rid of the Tomcat

[@keithhoss4990]

The Navy LOVES the Tomcat. The swept wings sunk the Tomcat. Wing roots were shot.

[@Fng_1975]

@@keithhoss4990Funny, never heard one pilot, maintainer or publication has mentioned this. Care to site your source please?

[@keithhoss4990]

@@Fng_1975 My source is me. Air Force pilot and FAA certified A&P

[@major__kong]

@@keithhoss4990 Not an A&P but I've turned wrenches on everything include airplanes including my own and an F-14 when Willow Grove was BRAC'd in the 90's. I'm also an aeronautical engineer working in R&D. I was helping a small museum in NJ move it, and we needed to pull the wings and vertical tails off. Not sure what you mean by wing root. I can imagine things like hydraulics needed a bunch of help. But not the center wing box or pivot mechanisms. Those things were brutes. I think if the F-14 went into afterburner straight down and drilled itself into the dirt, you could dust off the wing box and reuse it. That thing was a hefty chunk of titanium, and heavy steel pins secured the wing to the pivot mechanism. Those things were like piston wrist pins but on steroids. Grumman was looking to avoid what happened to the F-111 and its wing pivot. And Grumman succeeded.

[@willpugh8865]

@@keithhoss4990well seeing as how you were navy and probably in pre school when the tomcat was retired I’d like to see an actual source

[@markever234]

I mean in reality, the f-35 is going to be taking over. The super hornet just needs to be a ordinance truck. If the SM-6 mounted to a super hornet has the same capability as the ship launched version, why wouldn't you want to get that weapons package several hundred miles closer the front? I picture it like this.... F-35 operating in contested airspace, quarterbacking and sending data to the "ordinance truck". Ordinance truck sitting in back lobbing 250+ mile AA missiles at super-sonics, enemy awacs, or enemy bombers. Lets not forget the AIM 260 and peregrine are going to be hitting production stride soon. Its the same in the air force world. The EX has how many AIM 260 hardpoints? .. like 10 or 12? F35/F22 in the front... EX lobbing ordinance. I just hope they get this all squared away before it kicks off in the pacific.

[@DefaultProphet]

The 120-D has shot down a target farther than any Phoenix ever did and on-paper ranges are the same. Phoenix(And the F14) are old and busted

[@v8packard]

Old and busted, great explanation. I love the comparison without context. The Phoenix missile was doing the 100+ mile test shots long before AIM-120 existed. The Phoenix was last updated in the late 1980s, because it was supposed to be replaced by the AAAM. That didn't happen in US Service, but the Hughes version of the AAAM provided key technology for the MBDA Meteor. When the AIM-120 entered service in 1991, it had a range of 40 miles, realistically. Improvements to the rocket propellant have at least tripled that in 30 years. If the Phoenix (and F-14) had received the kind of funding other programs got you would have seen Phoenix missiles with 250+ mile range, and F-14s more advanced than the D. You probably would have seen a production AIM-54 compatible with the F-15 and F-18, too (prototyped, look it up). I suspect some Iranian pilots might take issue with the notion of old and busted.

[@DefaultProphet]

@@v8packard Okay but it didn’t get that funding and we’re talking the real world not hypothetical where 30 years of history are different. Iranian F14s haven’t had operational Phoenixes since the Revolution or fairly shortly thereafter bud. Talk about old and busted.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

​@@v8packard How many Iranian F-14 pilots can take off at the same time? And aren't they using HAWK clones as a Phoenix replacement anyway?

[@v8packard]

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD Don't know how many there are, but I would not be surprised if there are 15 to 20 that could. The Fakour 90 is a Phoenix clone/rebuild, not Hawk. I don't know if the program to add Hawks to the F-14 went beyond a few planes.

[@katherineberger6329]

Hmmmmm... AIM-174D Standard ERAAM?

[@Bad_Wolf_Media]

Not gonna lie, I was a little confused when the show logo came up. I clicked because the thumbnail seemed so goofy/absurd, I think it was Growling Sidewinder or Grim Reapers doing something absurd with DCS mods.

[@AF65WA]

AIM-174B

[@francishwlee]

Mount 4 of those on the wings and then a patriot on the centerline as a launch-assist booster. Problem solved.

[@zachhoefs9543]

I mean, the SM-6 in the picture doesn't have the first stage rocket motor attached... so somewhere there's a spare SM-6 first stage rocket motor.

[@stevennicovich8547]

AIM-174 - AIM-120 = AIM-54. 😀

[@Wyvern1-1]

Or, you know, buy some meteor from the Brits

[@ryanbabb4857]

What's the point of such a long range missile for our inventory? No way you can ID a target that far out, politics has made Visual ID damn near mandatory every time.

[@richardthomson4693]

they have their own seeker head. shoot to approx where the tanker / awacs / transport is, missiles own seeker takes over

[@gscott5778]

Ok, Let's be real here. In the past I have actually, at TAC (Old USAF) heard of a General officer shock at the result of a simple comment he made. He Said "I wonder if we could..." Two weeks later he was briefed on a full up proposal to carry out his comment of I wonder if we could." He was shocked that at least a dozen people were given orders to fast track a plan fulfill his "I wonder,." comment. He was NOT happy. Guys I sometimes wonder about things out loud and that does not mean I want a full-scale plane to do whatever I wonder about. Point is... This almost sounds like someone got carried away with a general officers "I wonder if we could" comment And maybe the general officer decided well, they already drafted plans and perhaps it might work so - Yeah go ahead set that test up. Never underestimate the bizarre things that can happen when you get a curious General officer and an XO who gets carried away with doing ANYTHING to please the general.

[@jameshewitt8828]

Patriot missile would jettison the jet not the other way around 😂

[@chadbernard2641]

The Russians have R-37M 400km Mach 6-7 hypersonic. They need to do better.

[@kdaltex]

Anti-sat mission

[@GoNavyAT2]

Sad rhino😂😂

[@richardnicklin654]

It’s not just range that drives the diameter of SM-6 - it has a huge radar aperture and a significant warhead. Against a low RCS target that’s useful. That said, buying Meteor seems like a better solution.

[@TeamNelson-d2d]

Super Hornet is 2/3rds a Strike Eagle..... It can't carry a GAU-8. An F-15E can carry 5 of them. Chow my Hog Rivet

[@chrisprice217]

Why not just get some meteors?

[@austinwatkins5228]

Navy navy bring back the F 14 tomcat with upgrade

[@danielmeador1991]

Ain’t gonna happen

[@dne9394]

Drones carrying these, flying loyal wingman. Could be a very good mix. And the drones could even be launched from non-carriers.