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F-Like Runes (ᚠ, ᚨ, ᚹ)--Rune Origins Series

  Рет қаралды 11,665

Jackson Crawford

Jackson Crawford

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 85
@JacksonCrawford
@JacksonCrawford Жыл бұрын
A current (Feb. 2023) summary of what I think is the most likely derivation for the rune alphabet (and its individual letters) at kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKioeqSbf8aBgrs
@MrMayki89
@MrMayki89 3 жыл бұрын
I am watching your videos library with my son while in the pine woods by the lake. Magic times listening to old norse and myths about the gods while surrounded by beautiful nature. Thank you good sir.
@martinnyberg9295
@martinnyberg9295 3 жыл бұрын
I took a course on “Germanic Mythology” in college a quarter of a century ago as part of my German literature degree, which surveyed the early mediaeval origins of the germanic languages. Thanks for rekindling this old interest of mine. 😊👍🏻
@lumethecrow2632
@lumethecrow2632 3 жыл бұрын
"A quarter of a century" sounds way longer than 25 years
@TarotsApprentice
@TarotsApprentice 3 жыл бұрын
Good Lord you have the greatest settings for your videos. Great info and locations!!
@Raua12
@Raua12 3 жыл бұрын
We have an 800(?) year old source telling us how they came to be though! Oden got them while hanging in a tree! Jokes aside, thank you for these videos. They are really interesting and these shorter ones make it quick and easy to learn something new/start thinking about a topic.
@Raua12
@Raua12 3 жыл бұрын
Another thought: this spring I went a quick rune course at Uppsala and we were presented with the theory that they saw writing on their journeys/traded with materials that was written on and then kinda just decided to make up their own writing system based on the signs they liked the most (they being just a general "maybe a group of people somewhere sometime"). Something else fun what probably just has to do with cattle being important to humans in general; A being an ox head and fehu looking like an A (ish) and having a related meaning.
@marjae2767
@marjae2767 3 жыл бұрын
@@Raua12 Stimulus diffusion then, like with the Cherokee syllabary.
@sadajohn5123
@sadajohn5123 3 жыл бұрын
Jackson crawford your the best
@HBon111
@HBon111 3 жыл бұрын
Apologies because this has nothing to do with runes but: I love your little pistol flip in your intro. I geek out everytime. :D
@troelspeterroland6998
@troelspeterroland6998 3 жыл бұрын
Allow me another speculation here. Looking at the Alpine aphabets, it seems that they, like early Latin, had not yet developed a distinction between /g/and /k/. I sometimes wonder if ᚷ=/g/ and ᛜ (alternatively ᛝ)=[ŋ] were created on the same occasion as two different mirrorings of ᚲ=/k/. If so, the affinity of [ŋ] and /g/ could be another Greek feature (cf. γγ = [ŋg]).
@moritzm6470
@moritzm6470 3 жыл бұрын
One scenario could be that the alphabet lacked the letter 'F' entirely when it first reached Germania because it was transmitted through Celtic, which didn't have this sound (but had 'W'). When Germanic speakers later encountered the Latin alphabet they fixed this defect by adapting the Roman letter (possibly also altering the shape of 'W' to avoid graphic conflict).
@mattbaker7305
@mattbaker7305 3 жыл бұрын
So exciting to take this journey with you. I'm so interested in the history of this, and even just chewing on some new ideas will be fascinating. Thank you for your brain, time, and willingness to share both. From the shady sidewalks of Sacramento, CA I'm wishing you... All the best.
@nobodyexceptme7794
@nobodyexceptme7794 3 жыл бұрын
I'm here for it all after the ign vids. Love this stuff
@ylva571
@ylva571 3 жыл бұрын
I bought "Runes, A Handbook" by Michael Barnes on your recommendation. It is really very good... I find myself going back and forth between these videos and the book as you clarify things so well. Then the next day I have forgotten two thirds of it and have to to do it all again ;)
@ancliuin2459
@ancliuin2459 3 жыл бұрын
I did the same, also on recommendation by Mr. Crawford. In-depth information, well worth reading several times to memorize at least part of the content. A true work of reference.
@ylva571
@ylva571 3 жыл бұрын
@@ancliuin2459 Yes totally agree. It can be quite dense and scholarly for sure, but I found it readable and so very interesting. I also managed to find a copy of "Viking Clothing" by Thor Ewing that Dr C recommended. Also excellent.
@BlakeBarrett
@BlakeBarrett 3 жыл бұрын
The VH = /f/ is fascinating. Was that how all aspirated+voiced consonant sounds were “spelled”, by adding a H at the end?
@BlakeBarrett
@BlakeBarrett 3 жыл бұрын
This makes me wonder about the relationship between /j/ and /sh/ and /ch/
@Alex-fv2qs
@Alex-fv2qs 2 жыл бұрын
WH also turned into a more F like sound /ɸ/ in Maori
@melissahdawn
@melissahdawn 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I love picking up ideas and speculations here and there. Although no one can safely conclude if enough speculations agree a person will gain at least a good enough notion to build on, and one day maybe all those speculations will click! Thank you. I appreciate thinking those thoughts, you are soo brilliant! 👏
@amandachapman4708
@amandachapman4708 3 жыл бұрын
I love a mystery! Especially where language and writing is concerned.
@markadams7597
@markadams7597 3 жыл бұрын
This is a great series! Keep'm coming. Thanks for sharing your hard-won knowledge. The wunjo looks like the koine Greek rho. Interesting about digamma. Ty.
@MysticHeather
@MysticHeather 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for continuing to share your informed thoughts on things like this
@MrWTFcsc
@MrWTFcsc 3 жыл бұрын
Very low volume :P There always is somewhat low volume on your videos, but this is even lower than that. Just a heads-up
@mq9demo
@mq9demo 3 жыл бұрын
Agreed. The man can definitely pass the audio through software as basic as Audacity to increase the volume, or even additionally apply some compression (if he so chooses)
@Zakvasir
@Zakvasir 3 жыл бұрын
Agreed. Maxed out all volume and could barely hear him :(
@Freethinker94
@Freethinker94 3 жыл бұрын
I have watched your videos for years at this point and I absolutely love how you present information. However your audio has faded to almost a whisper over time!
@Loehengrin
@Loehengrin 3 жыл бұрын
What do the Lepontic f and w look like?
@Stej-i7m
@Stej-i7m 3 жыл бұрын
Jackson's knowledge of Old Norse makes me think of some College of Winterhold type stuff, just a regular American guy who happens to pretty much speak Old Norse and can communicate with the ancestors. I'm gonna study Icelandic as my hobby language, which I'm hoping opens the doors to understanding Old Norse more as well
@tjstarr2960
@tjstarr2960 2 жыл бұрын
I think it is possible that the "ansuz" letter ᚨ could have come directly from Greek, or some Greek derived alphabet like was used in Italy or the Alps. There are plenty of styles of Greek minuscule writing where the alpha letter looks kind of like a lambda with the bottom leg extended. You can see this sort of shape for the Gothic letter 𐌰. From there it is an easy jump to the shape of the Runic letter "ansuz".
@janetchennault4385
@janetchennault4385 3 жыл бұрын
We have rune-songs for the Anglo Saxon and Norse runes, and they include mnemonics for what the runes 'mean' (cattle, gods). Are there any Mediterranean rune songs that have similar word-associations?
@SlippyCyppy
@SlippyCyppy 3 жыл бұрын
would you happen to have any response/commentary to give in relation to Metatron’s video on runes that he released very very recently?
@LemonadeMouthSomebod
@LemonadeMouthSomebod 3 жыл бұрын
I really appreciate your videos, professor! Though I would like to give a bit of feedback: the audio level is often a bit too quiet. Increasing it in the post would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
@vvvvaaaacccc
@vvvvaaaacccc 3 жыл бұрын
between the second and third layers, so before they adopted wunjo, what letters might they have used to represent the 'w' sound?
@aqsilewsin
@aqsilewsin 3 жыл бұрын
Has there been any research into possible Turkic Runic alphabet influence on the Germanic runes?
@abyssimus
@abyssimus 3 жыл бұрын
The earliest examples of the Turkic runes are from the 8th century, way over in what's now Mongolia. The earliest examples of the Elder Futhark are from the 2nd century. We can trace the Turkic runes to Aramaic via Sogdian. The distance across space and time would suggest that influence in either direction was unlikely.
@mytube001
@mytube001 3 жыл бұрын
Can we assume that at every stage, there was a complete alphabet, capable of making up any word desired in the early Germanic? If so, then at stage one, there were three letters, representing the sounds F, A and W. Why then would one or a few letters become replaced after contact with another alphabet? Was written language in the hands of so few that one or a handful of individuals could consciously and actively decide to adopt a new letter from another alphabet? If not, and if it happened slowly through trade and other contacts between neighboring languages, why would it not end up as a regionally differentiated alphabet, where areas more distant from the contact areas would retain the old letters, and the closer ones adopt the new?
@troelspeterroland6998
@troelspeterroland6998 3 жыл бұрын
It's a great question. I don't know the answer but it is indeed very surprising how fixed the runic alphabet seems. E.g. having names for the runes that can be reconstructed for Proto-Germanic because the different language branches preserved them. And keeping the letter ᛇ everywhere although its pronunciation seems to have been forgotten at an early stage. Also, the makers of the famous bracteates from 450 to 550 AD seem to make meaningless inscriptions on them because they are apparently not very proficient in runes. And yet, they occasionaly produce the entire fuþark with few or no errors. It is almost as if the alphabet itself was revered.
@GazilionPT
@GazilionPT 3 жыл бұрын
Ignoring the fact that the last rune made sound "W", its shape closely resembles a "P", not an "F". But for example in Hebrew, "P" and "F" are the same letter: פ‎. (You may distinguish them putting a dot inside the letter (פּ) when it's P, but in normal writing the dots are not included unless you're introducing a new word.)
@robb8331
@robb8331 3 жыл бұрын
thanks
@Damorte
@Damorte 3 жыл бұрын
Heya, im loving your videos especially the ones where you speak old norse. I have a question. In the videos in old norse you speak very well pronounciated and slowly and it got me thinking, how would it have sounded like in a more normal fashion in day to day talk. Speaking in a "normal way" we speak alot faster and more disjointed then the old written poems, and we have all those filler words like eh and umm. Would it be possible to make a video on "normal" spoken old norse?
@oneukum
@oneukum 3 жыл бұрын
Was the digamma still pronounced in any Greek dialect at the time in question?
@jaywisniewski8077
@jaywisniewski8077 2 жыл бұрын
Hey I was wondering if there was a nordic symbol for wolf or runes that spelt wolf let me know please
@donkeysaurusrex7881
@donkeysaurusrex7881 3 жыл бұрын
Is that a new hat? Maybe I haven’t been paying attention, but I don’t remember the brim being turned up so much on the sides in the past.
@hasko_not_the_pirate
@hasko_not_the_pirate 3 жыл бұрын
Maybe naive question: If the wunjō was borrowed later, how did they write words that included the sound before that? I recall that someone wrote novel without the letter “e” once but surely that’s not what they did with the /w/?
@bearofthunder
@bearofthunder 2 жыл бұрын
If you go back the oldest rune symbols, it seems to me that they all have had one prerequisite during creation. That is to have a shape that are easily carved into twigs with a knife or knife-like object. Without paper, the easiest thing to find to write messages on could be something like twigs, and that they are easy to tell apart on twigs. Also no horizontal lines that could be unclear because it cold be hidden in the grain of the wood. Maybe they tried they based some on what they learned from other cultures, but many symbols from other languages are not easy to use well on a twig. This is probably not an original idea of mine, because it is quite obvious the oldest runes are well suited for twigs. Maybe twigs were the ancient post-it notes and notepads. This adaptation would have to impact what the runes look like. So is runic F looking like roman F a connection or a feak coincidence?
@G_DJ787
@G_DJ787 3 жыл бұрын
What is the relation with Norse and men with beards, I know it sounds a bit off but I recently saw that most if not all the Norse gods are depicted having beards, with the exception of one very famous one, Loki who is also depicted as being more feminine and less trustworthy.
@Pandaemoni
@Pandaemoni 2 жыл бұрын
Why is that deer at the end in black and white? I'm freakin' out man!
@timothydoughty8246
@timothydoughty8246 3 жыл бұрын
This is the pinnacle. Watch this while high and it will blow your mind.
@SolPhoebusApollo
@SolPhoebusApollo 3 жыл бұрын
F runes are some of my favorites!
@blakewinter1657
@blakewinter1657 3 жыл бұрын
I'm going to suggest that it is not simply impressionistic to say that fehu and ansuz are more like the digamma than wunjo. I'm thinking if you trained a computer to recognize the three runes, then asked it to classify digamma, it would go for fehu or ansuz, not wunjo.
@soSo-ml8dv
@soSo-ml8dv 3 жыл бұрын
Dommage qu'il n'y ait pas de sous sous-titres français. Serait-il possible d'en mettre pour pouvoir partager la vidéo aux francophones ? Merci.
@sirwilliam4128
@sirwilliam4128 3 жыл бұрын
@Jackson Crawford please forgive 🙏🏼 the sound quality is seemingly low. Did anyone else have this problem…?
@ndkland
@ndkland 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Jackson! Could you help me. I need to know how to write my son's name in Younger Futhark. His name is Einar. ᛅᛁᚾᛅᚱ? Is that ok? Any help would be appreciated. Keep on teaching us Thank you!!!
@ndkland
@ndkland 3 жыл бұрын
Can someone help me please?
@TheAleutiansolution
@TheAleutiansolution 3 жыл бұрын
I said it before and I’ll say it again, the Germanic tribes that started using runes originally probably learned them from several cultures on their travels and forgot what they were taught and just made up for it when they got home. This is a joke, I highly doubt that this is what happened.
@gweiloxiu9862
@gweiloxiu9862 3 жыл бұрын
That might not be too far off the mark. They saw what other people were doing in terms of written language and using a mish mash of those other systems, developed their own based on their spoken language. These people memorized massive poetic spoken lays as their history and myth, I think their ability to remember what they encounter was probably superb.
@TheAleutiansolution
@TheAleutiansolution 3 жыл бұрын
@@gweiloxiu9862 understandable, I just think it would be funny if they went through the process of creating or learning a writing system, but forgot what they were taught.
@BlakeBarrett
@BlakeBarrett 3 жыл бұрын
Is the digamma+H notation how the “ph” combo made its way to also mean /f/?
@troelspeterroland6998
@troelspeterroland6998 3 жыл бұрын
Not really. It is a later development in Classical Latin where PH, TH and CH are used to render the Greek letters Φ, Θ and Χ which were pronounced as P+H, T+H and K+H. The change from /ph/ to /f/ happened when Latin speakers were not that proficient in Greek, and later entered the standard language.
@fredrikbreivald388
@fredrikbreivald388 Жыл бұрын
It’s all just a big F-ing mystery I guess
@Pengalen
@Pengalen 3 жыл бұрын
Your videos are at a notably lower volume than the greater corpus of the many, many youtube videos I watch. It is my suggestion therefore, that you put the microphone closer to your face, or some similar technical improvement.
@Zakvasir
@Zakvasir 3 жыл бұрын
Is it just me or is the volume very low in this video?
@gweiloxiu9862
@gweiloxiu9862 3 жыл бұрын
Sorry for the drive-by, but wouldn't the rune staves (as an alhpabet) have a similar origin to other regionally various alphabets? Like they are pretty much some combination of various alphabets encountered by the people in a region, and developed over time to transcribe the phonetics of that people's regional spoken language and dialect to the written word. Maybe that's not how it works, but it sounds right to me.
@TheOtherTed
@TheOtherTed 3 жыл бұрын
Nothing unscientific about positing a hypothesis based on available evidence. Also - is that a mule deer?
@faramund9865
@faramund9865 3 жыл бұрын
Had nobody ever considered a common origin for these writing systems? Just as most European languages share a common source? Also, what’s the explanation for the futhark having a totally different alphabetical order?
@HBon111
@HBon111 3 жыл бұрын
No supposing Greek capital "Rho" could have filtrated into Futhark "*wunjo" by conflation of a rhotic sound with the bilabial approximant in the same manner children learn English? Very scientific, I know. :D
@martinnyberg9295
@martinnyberg9295 3 жыл бұрын
That is not such a silly idea actually. The “end-of-words thick-voiced-R” rune in the younger futhark looks like R and sounds very similar to a kind of guttural W with a buzz, I’m sure it is all connected somehow. 🤔😏
@beepboop204
@beepboop204 3 жыл бұрын
Have you ever just considered selling out and becoming a guru and peddle your own brand of baseless mysticism based on the runes?
@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533
@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533 3 жыл бұрын
There is tons of esoteric bases for the Runes. Runes were used for magical purposes, and they do have meanings. First of all, there were Runic charms. They could be written on the hand or put on bracteates. Secondly, the Rune poems indicate their meanings. It is no coincidence that both the English and Norse had their own Rune poems that show the meanings.
@beepboop204
@beepboop204 3 жыл бұрын
@@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533 sources, though?
@radamoxd
@radamoxd 3 жыл бұрын
@@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533 gonna need some proof there buddy, more than ''i interpret it this way'' as well.
@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533
@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533 3 жыл бұрын
@@beepboop204 Long Branches: Runes of the Younger Futhark -- An academic guide book, not a magic one. It has sources from the sagas and from runestones. Example: "The Stentofen runestone, which dates to the 6th or 7th century CE, provides early evidence for this belief and connects it directly with the Ár-rune itself. The first three lines of the inscription read: niuhAborumR nuihagestumR hAþuwolAfRgafj . There is a general agreement that the third line refers to a king or chieftain named Hathuwolf, who gave [gaf] "j" (Duwel 21). The final J-rune is taken to stand for the Northwest Germanic rune-name *Jara, which became Ár in Old Norse." Ár, page 130-131 The Hávamál -- No explanation needed. Example: "You will find runes, runic letters to read, very great runes, very powerful runes, which Odin painted, and which the holy gods made, and which Odin carved. Odin carved for the gods, and Dain for the elves, Dvalinn for the dwarves, and Asvith for the giants; I carved some myself. Do you know how to write them? Do you know how to read them? Do you know how to paint them? Do you know how to test them? Do you know how to ask them? Do you know how to bless them? Do you know how to send them? Do you know how to offer them?" Stanzas 142 to 144. There are many more sources which I would love to show here, but it is late.
@beepboop204
@beepboop204 3 жыл бұрын
@@jurikurthambarskjelfir3533 which is all quite different from the views offered by gurus, Marvel comics fans, etc.
@adriancarroll5281
@adriancarroll5281 3 жыл бұрын
Did anyone else have trouble hearing this?
@Yoshimidsu
@Yoshimidsu 3 жыл бұрын
Your videos are very quiet, I can barely hear even on maximum volume.
@UtahSustainGardening
@UtahSustainGardening 3 жыл бұрын
I had to give up on trying to watch this because the audio is so low.
@davidkellett4794
@davidkellett4794 3 жыл бұрын
carve fehu to pay respects
@sarahw4346
@sarahw4346 3 жыл бұрын
Obviously Odin sacrificed himself to himself to give us the runes. It says so right there in the Havamal!
@deadgavin4218
@deadgavin4218 3 жыл бұрын
youd sound much more scientific if you actually had to carve and read off of stone, but i doubt anyoned have that experience unfortunately cute doe
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