Why are former wrestling fans no longer watching?: Wrestling Observer Radio

[@ReviewerRandom]

- Storylines with lame payoffs or no payoff at all (remember the hacker?) - Organic stars being ignored or diminished by convoluted bullshit (inserting Charlotte in WM Main Event) - Insisting on pushing people the fans DON'T WANT (Roman until his cancer, Lesnar several times) - Stupid decisions for the sake of the shock (Kofi losing in 9 seconds, Lesnar winning MitB) - No continuity between stories (Kofi doesn't seem to care about losing his WWE Championship) - Ruining momentum of building stars by someone's else ego (The Fiend defeated by Goldberg) - Too much nosense to extend feuds (Hell in a Cell ending in no-contest, AJ vs Nakamura ball-kicks) - Exhausting feuds with endless re-matches ("now, they fight again to decide the stipulation") - Titles have no meaning (Zelina Vega was a manager, won 1 match, now is #1 Contender) - Inconsistencies (is The Hurt Business heel or face? The Big Show is a joke now) - Too many no-contests/DQs - Ridiculous scripted promos - Themed PPVs making gimmick matches feel less important (Hell in a Cell, Elimination Chamber, TLC) - Cooldown periods kill NXT call-outs' impact (remember Nakamura?) - Bad use of interesting concepts for a lame storyline (World Cup with only americans, won by Shane) - Destroying current roster credibility by feeding them to part-timers. - 3 hour RAW (you can't expect people to watch 3 hours straight every damn week) - Terrible booking methods (pushing 6 people at the same time in a feud cause nobody gets over) - 50/50 booking makes nobody feel special besides Lesnar and Goldberg - Most of comedy is centered on what Vince finds funny, but it's incredibly lame (Ucy Hot) - Transparent pettiness when punishing somebody (EC3, Ambrose, The Revival, Rusev)

[@sky11dragoon]

You forgot the main one, the show is build around entertaining one person.

[@drewturner4845]

I see no lies here....agreed

[@jrvc20]

Amen

[@ArcaneAzmadi]

@@sky11dragoon When you think about it, this really is the core of everything: even if everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE) hates WWE's product, it doesn't actually matter because of the old chestnut "You're not the target audience". Hardcore fans? Not the target audience. Casual fans? Not the target audience. Non-wrestling fans? Not the target audience. Who IS the target audience? Vince McMahon. The WWE is one man playing with the world's biggest and most-expensive collection of dolls- sorry, "action figures", and everyone else is just being allowed to watch. If they don't like it, they can fuck off, because Vince is going to do whatever he wants.

[@sky11dragoon]

@@ArcaneAzmadi yeah, i mean what was the first thing that bruce booked when he had free reigns over raw and smackdown, the piss test with jeff and sheamus which was recycled from the 90's, cause he know that what vince likes.

[@SharksRule86]

“You’re not allowed to believe in anybody in wrestling anymore.” - Jim Cornette

[@M0gM00gle]

I'll name a few reasons: CM Punk was becoming a big star, he gets buried by HHH Daniel Bryan was becoming a big star, he ALMOST gets buried by HHH, then is forced into early retirement via the opinion of a single WWE doctor so he can pass on his overness to Roman Reigns Dolph Ziggler and Zack Ryder start getting over, Ziggler loses his title and his stable, but fairs better than Zack, who for no reason at all gets put into a story line where he gets cuckolded by John Cena, beaten up by Kane, then loses the match against Kane for the blowoff Rusev starts getting over, so they put him in garbage feuds then cuckold him (Seriously, who in WWE creative has this fetish?) with Bobby Lashley. Cesaro starts getting over, so Vince throws him into a tag team with Sheamus, who at the the time he hated and Vince knew this, they both become friends and the tag team becomes successful and popular so Vince breaks up the team Stephanie comes out and emasculates the entire male locker room for 2 years straight, and at no point does anyone argue or even attempt to fight back... except Roman Reigns Every RAW for a year opening with HHH or Steph talking in the ring for 10 minutes to be interrupted by Roman Reigns

[@shoto7948]

Also wrestling just isn't popular anymore and is considered lame At the end of the day its 2 guys fake fighting in their underwear

[@Minkywhispers]

Question is.. Why do wwe Bury them when they could make more money letting them get over and stay over?

[@suprcrzy]

The announcers dont help. And I know its mainly because of Vince in their ear 24/7 telling them what to say.

[@shoto7948]

@@Minkywhispers because they will get too big and leave wrestling Let's be honest the general public thinks wrestling is lame

[@thejanglezclan]

CM Punk was a dead end. Dude can't draw a nickel now and is constantly failing with every new endeavor.

[@starchygoblin9859]

There's not enough time in the day to list all the damn reasons for people dropping WWE, but just to name a few: They became way too reliant on old guys for way too long The undercard and Midcard was consistently irrelevant for years, which is an issue as those are 2/3s of any given damn show. 3 hour Raws. Nonsensical storylines and inconsistent booking. The refusal to create new stars until far too late. An absolutely bloated roster filled with like 200 fucking people Like 20 hours of programming each week, which causes a very easy burnout effect. A shift in ideology where every single person, promo, interview, or plug has to take as long as humanly possible to try and fill up time for bloated television shows Abandoning logical storytelling for the sake of "moments." And probably alot more man

[@raypurchase1239]

Couldn't agree more.

[@BenBrislawn]

Getting blood money from a country who kill journalists and treats women like slaves. But WWE is having a "women's revolution!" Sarcasm intended.😴😂😬

[@pureimpact4658]

Starchy Goblin You are SO right man! You can add: Not pushing guys that we formed bonds with. Over pushing Cena for a decade! Not having RAW or Smackdown world title matches hardly at all. Hell, Austin, Rock, Foley, HBK, Bret and HHH defended their title on tv sometimes! Hiring Hollyweird writers instead of hiring wrestlers who know the business! Killing Daniel Bryan and his push, twice!! Screwing CM Punk Taking forever to crown a full blooded Black man WWE champion. Making Kofi look weak and not using him/marketing right. His character remained being a dork! Ruining Bray multiple times. I could go on and on...😏

[@shoto7948]

@@pureimpact4658 fans were leaving before cenas push though Rstings were going down all the way back in 2004

[@rj5822]

Giving that baby fat head Dominik Mysterio TV time. Smh

[@polsdofer]

I find people talking about WWE is more entertaining than watching WWE so i enjoy it when RAW or Smackdown is trash 😂😂

[@stevenlannister184]

I'm the same. I'm subscribed to 4 different wrestling KZbin channels that review wwe but i don't even watch it.

[@kyranlatham783]

polsdofer man same I haven’t watched WWE at all this year besides PPV’s but I love hearing about what new thing everyone hates

[@behemothbear]

Well yeah, we're not obligated to give lip service for the company like a Samoa Joe or a Stone Cold type. Raw was so bad last Monday that even Retribution members are in on the joke and making fun of the company. With something like AEW as direct competition, WWE's full-on clown shoes.

[@godphoenix66x]

JDfromNY206, Solomonster, Joe Cronin, Don Tony all much better than watching actual WWE programming.

[@behemothbear]

@mak0321 How long was WCW around?

[@kevinnashiscool1]

Well if t-bar, slapjack, and mace doesn’t bring them back I don’t know what will.

[@The19Flo93]

I stopped watching WWE because I'm bored to see the same matches with the same moves every week. Uninspired promos 90% of the time and the feeling that every match ends with a BS finish. Every heel has to rely on cheating and can't just be a talented badass in the ring who is just an asshole. Annoying commentators who can't even (or are not allowed to) name moves: Right on his neck and shoulders; dropped him; kick. 🤦🏻‍♂️😅

[@jeffreythomas7466]

@@posteveryside-beatsnews hahaha. yea ok, you're a fn idiot.

[@BrewskiBudder]

@@posteveryside-beatsnews A small group of fans on the internet killed wrestling? How delusional can you be to think that

[@F1rsttimer]

“He's putting those educated feet to good use!”

[@magnusyarbrough5527]

heels are supposed to cheat. and honestly i think the heels dont cheat enough. basically the only people doing heel moves in wwe are ric flair, nakamura, and sometimes randy orton. the rest are all generic athletic wrestlers who are assholes to other generic athletic wrestlers.

[@UKpowerunleashed]

I stopped watching wrestling in general. I am a busy man now in my late 20s. I just don't have time for wrestling. I have to choose now amongst tv, movies or outdoor sports. Even when I get time to watch pro wrestling, I go for NJPW or AEW now. WWE is not my poison of choice due to reasons mentioned by the main commentor.

[@MorganFreemansFavoriteFreckle]

Because "Suspension of Disbelief" is utterly unfathomable with this product now. It's all just a bunch of bland, corporate, incoherent nonsense

[@namelessjedi2242]

They are going through the motions “like they always have done”, but forgot the soul of the product. There’s zero substance, just a big chaotic infomercial.

[@gregorsamsa2271]

Exactly, and very well explained! And tbh, this started all with when the territories got killed. I'm not saying the territories were perfect, but when WWE became a monopoly it certainly was the beginning of the end. And when wrestling got exposed more and more (to a point where it's hard to take it any serious anymore, since the wrestlers aren't even trying anymore) it became even worse.

[@steviemacc2745]

EXACTLY. Picture an anarchist "rebel/outsiders" group who manages to not only "invade" at will... but they also have enough pull to have production cue up a titantron, plus have the commentary team say "I wonder what Retribution has in store for us?" Smh... THIS is a 70 plus year old man writing "STUPID" on all our heads with a sharpie

[@osaji922]

Exactly this! And when they have no respect for suspension of disbelief, why should the viewer? Why should anybody watch something that openly mocks the viewer like that? 99.9% of the people in the industry are spineless twats cashing checks. That's it. They're just there for the money.

[@Eternaldarkness3166]

Remember when we all knew it was fake, but everyone tried really hard on selling us that it was real? yeah, it's been a while.

[@J-Vasa]

My main issue with wwe is that it feels so plasticky and shiney and glittery. It feels like everything is designed to look like toys so they can sell toys and merch to kids. I get they wanna sell merch but i feel like in the old days it felt like things would get over, they would then make merch of that thing. Now it feels like everything from the ring ropes to characters and their attire to the stage is designed to first and foremost sell merch and toys. It feels like even if something isnt over they shove it in your face because they want kids to bug their parents to buy the merch and toys. I like AEW because it has a less overly colourful and shiney feel even when they do have those elements. It feels more real. At the same time im so fatigued now from wwe i find it hard to get motivated by even AEW. There is also the fact that im in UK and wwe is now on bt sport. Im not paying for bt sport just to watch wwe. It isnt worth it especially not for what the product is. Lastly i think when they call their wrestlers superstars etc it feels more like when a company does like internal awards and its like... okay but this isnt a global thing, its between only the people in the company. so it kinda feels pointless. No one in the roster, to me at least, feels like a big deal. It feels like wwe is telling us people are big deals but it feels like they are just saying that to sell us something. No one actually feels bigger than life and calling them superstars just feels fake. And having the same people go against each other week after week just makes that feeling worse for me.

[@blackjack23able]

@James vasa yep nothing but truth spoken.

[@MohlaVarun]

I too agree with your AEW comment because i too faced this fatigue a few years back but thankfully it wasn't strong enough to make me quit from wrestling altogether because i was tuning in more into New Japan at the time.

[@tootsiroll4134]

Kurt Angles ring gear during his swansong confirms everything you have just said.

[@sithshi9918]

Current WWE wrestlers feel and look like actors and actresses. Move sets are repetitive. Tired of seeing super kicks, sleeper holds, dive between the ropes and most of all roll up pins. Can't invest in anyone because injury, old Twitter comments, gimmick changes, name changes or off TV just because.

[@wolvezbane261]

The moveset complaint is kinda mute because that's how pro wrestling works. Wrestlers are supposed to have recognizable moves. In the 80's everyone was doing ddts, headlocks, leg drops and standard bodyslams

[@SteelSpurs]

@@wolvezbane261 Even so, there needs to be variety. There's a reason the 80s WWF is chagrined nowadays.

[@Minkywhispers]

This title don't speak to me. I am a WCW fan who came back with AEW. WWE was dead to me since the end of the attitude era.

[@123myballsitch]

i haven't watched wrestling since wwe attitude/ruthless aggression. recently started watching wrestling cuz of aew dynamite.

[@santanu-fr]

Same here I find AEW & their KZbin stuff entertaining but I don't think I can convince anyone to join me unless I show them the Street Fight or unsanctioned match. Casual audience don't care about anything fancy just proper good old beat down.

[@dougcyrus9288]

I see a lot of people on twitter saying that once AEW was created I stopped watching wwe

[@christopherpope961]

Same. I was always a WCW fan and I never really got into WWE even during the attitude era, but still occasionally watched it. Left when WCW was over and didn't come back until AEW started

[@mitchellalexander9162]

@@christopherpope961 Ya Like Watching Reliving the War?

[@user-lz7fn9ho3c]

Andrade has had a match with Street Profits in either singles or tag with Garza EIGHT TIMES in the last 2 months. I'm a fan of those wrestlers, but c'mon guys.

[@DigestiveCeremony]

Garza teamed with Austin Theory to take on the Street Profits at Wrestlemania. Wrestlemania. In April. At the end of September, he's still working the same tag team.

[@KingsleyandMarcoCrew]

1.Storyline/bad writing 2. Burying talent, 3. Bad Promos 4. Lack of creating a potential star. 5. Policies 6 creativity 7 tag team not emotional 8 paper view being horrible 9 bad matches 10 Vince needs to leave

[@3210-n1x]

Vince hasn't been in charge In years, Stephanie been running and ruining it for years for sjw, women's revolution garbage! U think Vince books that lol the man gave us pudding matches

[@3210-n1x]

@Star Killer OK dave

[@LordDurbian]

3210 # you know Vince rips up scripts consistently right

[@3210-n1x]

@@LordDurbian yes exactly because it's so bad he has to try rewrite the whole show last second.. because of these writers that Stephanie hired btw. Vince is not the problem with wrestling he's one of the all time greats

[@3210-n1x]

@Star Killer lol im the sheep? Because I know what's going on while you rely on dave meltzer and whatculture for your information lol

[@jpowers55]

All those reunion shows where the stars from the 90s and 00s come back and beat up members of the current roster have caught up to them.

[@jte1407]

Just to name a few main reasons; way too much content, when hardly any of it is actually worth watching and lack of truly captivating wrestlers or storyline’s.

[@TroystonB]

I think that's the real reason. Just too many shows and it gets repetitive.

[@What-qx6ww]

The reason is simple because wwe sucks nowadays

[@perry4799]

Yeah it's not really something that needs to be overthought lol. The product is just bad and doesn't value the viewers time. There's too many things fighting for people's attention for them to put out such a lack luster product.

[@dranzerjetli5126]

Thats an understatement

[@destinholland3399]

Have I ever watched NXT an SmackDown recently

[@chuckycheesechucky]

nowadays = 20+ years

[@TophDaGreat]

We'll all be here all day listing reasons. I'll shorten it to five reasons or less. 1. Inability to make new stars (Overreliance on the same people pushed many away) 2. Family friendly direction to PG alienated those that prefer a mature product so they moved on (You can still have a good product that is PG tho) 3. They grew up and found other interests. Life happens. 4. They still watch wrestling....they simply gave up on WWE and found other platforms to enjoy (NJPW, ROH, IMPACT, AEW etc). I will also count MMA/UFC into this as well. 5. Wrestling lost that cool hip factor it had in the late 90's/early 2000s. Back then, you could go to a Mall or something and see people you'd never met in your life wearing wrestling shirts and have chill conversations with them. Those days are gone (Though I noticed a good amount of gamers and comic book fans also tend to be wrestling fans more times than you expect. I'm #4. I gave up on WWE after Cena buried Nexus. Started watching the indies. I discovered NJPW via TNA (When Jeff Hardy wrestled Naito) and ROH (When Steen wrestled Nakamura) and I've been hooked ever since. I check up on NXT every so often. The last WWE show I watched from start to finish was Mania 31 which was actually a good show to my memory (Minus the HHH/Sting finish). But the product overall wasn't good enough to maintain my full attention so I went back to NJPW.

[@Fiedman]

One thing I would also add to your list and I'm sure this is something you might have thought of but didn't make your top 5. Is in my eyes they lack patients in letting wresters get over. Right now it seems if you don't get over right away they are pushed aside. Steve Austin and the Rock weren't mega stars when they started, they floundered for a while till they found their voice, if they would have shown up today with the same gimmicks they started out with they would have been pushed aside too and never given a chance.

[@sizablekoala6879]

I don't get why they didn't make say one show PG and keep another the way it was. Make Raw and Smackdown uniquely different shows to appeal to different types of fans.

[@tristanedwards7302]

I agree with all 5 points, and I'd say 5 is a result of 2

[@c.a.t4607]

It's also hard watching a product that views it's own fans as stupid marks to be milked for all the cash they can get...

[@chiefmileboolin7870]

@@Fiedman Lol funny you said that is cause in the last 10 years wrestlers who got over by themselves were Punk and DB, and I've seen a lot who have compared their pops and them getting over organically to the Austin and Rock. Problem is Management was never behind them and buried them from being those two being the biggest stars and carrying this damn company. It is what it is and loom at their ratings now compared to 11-14 where Vince was upset about them where they could pull 4.4-4.6 million Viewers out their asses on Raw

[@cello983]

I'm a lapsed female fan who started watching AEW because I know Chris Jericho. I haven't watched WWE since 2005.

[@albundy7459]

I’m a lapsed fan. Njpw pulled me back than I stayed for AEW. My 2 co workers haven’t watched since wcw. They now watch AEW every week.

[@TheRogueCobra]

Welcome back

[@yagamifire7861]

EVERYONE I know that watches AEW is a lapsed WWE fan...

[@marsupialmole3926]

I watch AEW, and I never watched WWE, I got into wrestling via friends introducing me to NJPW and moved to AEW from there

[@MrAdrenaline1982]

I'm a lapsed WWE fan, but also couldn't get into AEW.

[@xxBTA88]

I’m an AEW fan who is a lapsed WCW fan. When WCW folded, I took an almost 20 year break from wrestling, aside from subscribing to the network for a few months to watch old Nitros.

[@NesDogg]

Yup. I still keep up with WWE, but im interested in AEW, NJPW, ROH, MLW, NWA, Impact etc. back then it was either WWE or WCW. Now these other shows are accessible so there’s choices

[@CaptainColdyron222]

I stopped watching WWE around 2005 or so. Started watching AEW when it started but gave up on that a while back.

[@PristineTX]

I didn't. I just stopped watching WWE. Same old, same old repetition. No big stars. Canned promos. Approved moves and banned moves. Approved phrases and banned phrases. Left WWE and became interested in NJPW and the indies first. Now I've added AEW. A lot of my friends who left wrestling just got into UFC/MMA and other real sports.

[@danielgilson528]

I was so sick of WWE, I watched highlights of the shows but even that was starting to wear on me. When Jericho went to Japan to feud with Kenny I was intrigued so I looked up some Kenny matches .. once I seen Kenny vs Okada I was hooked! Now I’m addicted to AEW and any shows they put on and I’m once again a wrestling fan, I’ll even watch the odd WWE show (mainly NXT or a bit of SD)

[@sheldonarmstrong9296]

Daniel Gilson what about AEW do you like? I really enjoy NJPW, but AEW is too Indy for me.

[@endlessfiregaming3863]

@@sheldonarmstrong9296 what does that mean to indy ? the indies is the best wrestling

[@sheldonarmstrong9296]

@@endlessfiregaming3863 indy to me means wrestling with little psychology, multiple flips and dives, at least one destroyer per match...just not my thing

[@nordicmaelstrom4714]

@@sheldonarmstrong9296 I watch AEW and haven't seen a destroyer in a while. I also see a lot of psychology no matter the match but that may be down to an educated eye having watching wrestling since the 1980s. The dives are all over the industry so is every product indy to you ? Just curious no animosity here.

[@sheldonarmstrong9296]

No animosity here either...just commenting on a wrestling product that isnt for me. Dustin does a destroyer literally every match he has. AEW had a promo with Brandi Rhodes performing a destroyer before her first match! When i say psychology I just dont mean work a hold, apply the finisher...i mean more the rules of simulated combat. For example...there is no way that Marko Stunt, Joey Janella or Orange Cassidy should last 5 seconds with trained athletes without AEW giving them an out...a special hold, a loaded glove,..anything. Seeing these guys compete ruins the suspension of disbelief. Dives are fine...but not every match...save something for the mainevent guys or the blood feuds. Sorry for the novel..lol

[@namelessjedi2242]

“More cartoonish” = the show is treating us like we are morons who will watch anything even if the storylines are nonsensical and go nowhere. The 80’s stuff was over the top but it made sense and had some great storylines that rewarded us for watching.

[@kbottrill1]

I stopped watching WWE around the time when they had New Day come out doing their goofy dancing and pancake throwing and they had Tyrus and Albert as a team having a dancing gimmick with the two “funkadactyls”. When people say it’s too cartoony, I understand completely what they mean

[@wolvezbane261]

Most of those 80's storylines made absolutely 0 sense. On top of that the matches themselves were mostly terrible. The 80's was when wrestling first went national right? You could tell because those crowds cheered for literally anything.

[@joaovitorcabral7224]

Or in the sense of it being not as believable. There is not an ounce of credibility and almost no believability in anything they do, that being because stories, angles and characters being stupid, silly, not as realistic, or them not sticking with things for a long time.

[@Gloryosky]

Specific reasons I stopped watching WWE's main shows: 1. Challengers for the title defeating the champions in non-title matches. It doesn't make the champion vulnerable and/or the challenger credible when you do it ALL THE TIME. Same with champion vs. champion. 2. WWE shilling its media releases on TV. WWE gets placement in Forbes and Sports Illustrated, do whatcha need to do on that front, but fans aren't there to watch shareholder videos. 3. The high level of angles/gimmicks booked due to WWE not being high on certain talents. If WWE needs to punish a talent or rework a gimmick, fine. When WWE does stuff like bring The Ascension up from NXT and call them crap almost from day one, that just undercuts the purpose of a call-up. 4. The comedy segments. You can't just have someone give another person diarrhea and have that be the entire joke. 5. WWE's over-saturation as a whole. Nothing feels special when you book more than twelve pay-per-views a year. Even WrestleMania is another show. tl;dr it's Vince amusing himself for two or three hours while pretending it's a sports event

[@ALIAN18]

It isn’t cool anymore. Too corporate. No badasses like the Road Warriors

[@namelessjedi2242]

Cool factor is a big part of it.

[@Durbit428]

Roid Warriors

[@magnusyarbrough5527]

David Lastname the road warriors drew more money in 3-5 years than the entire nxt roster has their whole careers combined

[@wolvezbane261]

@@magnusyarbrough5527 They were also in the 80's where it was much easier to get a pop. I'm not judging them by today's standards just saying the times were different.

[@Durbit428]

@@magnusyarbrough5527 "drawing" is an antiquated metric, shit doesn't work like that anymore Cornette. WWE is the "draw." No one "draws" on their own aside from Lesnar and Rock, MAYBE Undertaker but I don't even know if he pulls people in at this point. WWE have abused their older talent so much that even bringing back Goldberg or Austin doesn't pop a rating anymore. Vince has made sure no one wrestler is bigger than the WWE brand. There will never be another Stone Cold or Rock or Hogan. Because when they all got big enough, they left Vince for greener pastures. Vince doesn't want to allow that anymore. WWE pushed so many fans out of wrestling that there's essentially a finite fanbase now. New people are getting into it but not as fast as the older fans are dying off.

[@NicholasChorba]

Some of this clip Dave sounds like he knows what he's talking about, and other parts he sounds like he's been so close to the product for so long that he can't see what the rest of us see.

[@destinholland3399]

Dave a n Bryan or bias toward AEW

[@RamiGodReviews]

No more stars, same storylines and move-sets, all wrestlers looking the same, etc

[@behemothbear]

And if you try to be a unique character like Nakamura, Ricochet, or Riddle, they find a way to crush that.

[@khesipresents1885]

@@behemothbear how is ricochet unique in any way shape or form?

[@behemothbear]

@@khesipresents1885 Oh dear.

[@rj5822]

@@behemothbear they rather give baby fat head Dominik Mysterio TV time over those guys. Smh

@@khesipresents1885 Lol I just rememeoer itwas last year he was doing promos like "im here to show kids that superheros are real"

[@dasupastar4lyfe]

Dude, WWE literally had the Muppets hosting RAW in 2011. Of course people thought it was cartoonish.

[@num1Jaysta]

A kid winning the tag titles

[@RPenn-si2pr]

I turned off Wrestlemania in 2017, with two matches left, and have never watched WWE Since; did not care to have florescent shoes or Roman Reigns shoved down our throats. I have been a subscriber to New Japan World since July 1, 2017, and except for watching old JCP, Mid South, or World Class matches on KZbin, that is it for me, and I am more than fine with that. In my very late 40's and have been a fan since 1979, so no I never walked away. If I was 8 years old today and turned on Raw or Smackdown, and was told this is wrestling, I would have turned the channel and never watched any of it again.

[@andrewhucher]

Before I watch this I'm going to just answer the question. I love wrestling. Watched from about 88/89 to about 2001/2002. I stopped at that point because I was in high school and it was more fun either watching something else, doing stuff with friends, or playing video games rather than watching something that was way better 4 years prior. I started watching again around when CM Punk was champ in WWE. I through him discovered the other talent and from there learned of ROH and NJPW. WWE was ok for awhile but then again quickly became just not fun to watch. I can't understand how some people just watch and complain all the time but keep watching. I really don't have time to watch something that I don't like. So when AEW came about I was excited for something new. And even though its not always the best thing out there its an actually fun to watch option. I try to watch AEW every week and the PPVs. Today in my 30s I'd rather play a video game with my kid than to watch a stupid show on Monday or Friday out of habit. And my kid doesn't care for either WWE or AEW. He enjoys going to live shows sometimes. He really enjoyed ROH when we went to see the bucks and Cody and he enjoyed NXT. But they also both had ladder matches as that's what he liked. There are no characters on either show like a Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold that he can enjoy because he's a kid. He's not going to watch wrestling and say "wow look at how acrobatic that is. Look how impressive that move was." He wants to watch as if its an actual hard hitting fight. And he doesn't get that anywhere. Everything is becoming more and more choreographed and scripted that it loses its appeal. So I think the answer is because todays wrestling sucks. The only reason anyone watches it is because the fans like us are hanging on by a thread to nostalgia. Edit: They really dropped the ball with Daniel Bryan. That was one guy my son actually enjoyed watching and I did too. I don't remember seeing a crowd that wild and loud since Stone Cold. My kid would do the YES thing and everything. Even had one of those giant Daniel Bryan figures. So there is another reason. They literally had a guy and they fucking buried him lol. So fucking dumb. That's like discovering pizza before its ever been made and deciding to just throw it in the trash because you want to only serve lasagna.

[@jessegandy7361]

Every aspect of WWE is uninteresting to me.

[@eadred9164]

Wrestling has not been mainstream and has been in a constant decline since the early 90s. It blew up for a 5 year window between 1997-2001 because the MTV Spring Break generation connected with NWO and Austin/Rock. But the 'Nitro Party college crowd' was never wrestling's traditional fanbase, and they left soon as the Attitude Era was over. And wrestling's been on a steady downward trajectory again since 2002, so traditionalists blaming modern wrestling for it is a complete fallacy. If 'no-nonsense pure wrestling' had any real demand then ROH in 2005 would've been the biggest thing in the world. NWA would be on HBO & not doing less clicks on youtube than BTE. So yeah, I think the decline of fans has a lot more to do with the changing nature of media consumption (lot more options available with streaming). And most importantly it has to do with Vince driving away the blue collar traditional fans by killing the territories and monopolizing the business, and other socio-economic factors than trivial shit like Orange Cassidy doing super kicks.

[@gfear24]

You could make the argument that "modern wrestling" started around the same time as the internet became popular in the mid to late 90's. Kayfabe officially died giving what promoters were left no choice to go all in on stupid shit. Difference is, wrestling TV ratings, regardless of promotion, started truly plummeting within the last 7-10 years. That also coincides with when modern "work rate" a.k.a. glorified gymnastic routines that make zero sense became the norm as oppose to the old school style of telling a compelling story in the ring which drew 150,000+ fans to arenas across North America every single night for 70+ years prior to that. For 70+ years it wasn't uncommon to count up the total attendance of all the wrestling shows that went on in the territory era on every night of the week, and the total would be over 150,000 people for each night. Today, there is only 1 day that even comes somewhat close to that, and that's Wrestlemania day. Truth is, both can be, and likely are true. Kayfabe's death in the 90's started the decline. Modern style wrestling of the last decade has only made that decline go much faster. As for ROH and the "Pure Wrestling" stuff. You need to remember that it wasn't until about 2011 that ROH got a national TV deal with Sinclair Broadcasting. It was only in a few markets across the US before then. If they were doing the "Pure Wrestling" stuff in 2011 and onwards, I think it would've gotten far more traction because more people would be able to see what pro wrestling is supposed to be. Luckily, they are bringing it back now with the Pure Wrestling Tournament that's going on right now and getting rave reviews across the board, even from the "out of touch" people like Jim Cornette who absolutely loved the first episode of it. The more rave reviews it gets, the more traction it will get, and should result in more viewers tuning in every week. And that would be great for the "former fan" who used to love that style of pro wrestling back in the hay day.

[@cartem304]

I stopped after wm 17 came back to wrestling when I heard about Aew

[@cartem304]

@Jonathan Coleman stone cold shaking hands with the devil

[@wolvezbane261]

I've heard this alot actually. The austin heel turn and the WCW invasion that same year killed American wrestling from I've been told by older fans.

[@joehesketh9830]

I stopped watching WWE because far too often they over promise and under deliver with their booking. Gradually over time I learnt to expect to be let down, and once AEW came along I was given a choice. The real issue is they treat their audience like they're idiots. There's a transparency & vision behind how AEW book & handle real situations which makes me feel like my intelligence isn't being disrespected.

[@djohns9295]

People stoped watching because WWE became 5hrs a week of a soulless scripted program, where you always know who’s going to win. And let’s be fair, there is much better scripted programming that isn’t a 5 hrs a week investment. Pro Wrestling was once fun, over the top, spontaneous. and exciting. AEW is building on that foundation, which is why it’s as successful as it is.

[@iqbalkalbuadi5653]

I stop watching wrestling since 2008 until aew bring me back to watch wrestling once again.

[@yigitcanayaz5509]

Stop lying

[@iqbalkalbuadi5653]

@@yigitcanayaz5509 lying for what?

[@yigitcanayaz5509]

@@iqbalkalbuadi5653 if you left wrestling community 12 years ago, there is no chance to know aew

[@iqbalkalbuadi5653]

@@yigitcanayaz5509 that scene between Mike Tyson and y2j are all over Instagram. Then i started to look at aew Instagram account, then look at the stuff they do on KZbin. Its awesome especially the match between Kenny n handman vs the young Bucks.

[@edb2863]

I personally stopped watching wwe with the introduction of AEW. I am just so bored with the same stories, the same wrestlers, no smaller guys getting over, the slog of watching raw, smackdown and nxt every week, and the lack of consistency. I enjoy the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania but as others have said, I'm just tired of the main content that is supposed to be there to build up to things. Think the lana/rusev/lashley storyline came in just after I stopped watching and every headline or video about it reminded me why I stopped

[@peterlee6374]

Yet that Lana storyline got ratings at social media buzz Like or not trashy shit like that draws in viewers, why do you think shows like 90 fiancé and real housewives of Atlanta/Beverly hills do so well??

[@edb2863]

@@peterlee6374 I know that, doesn't mean I have to like it Plus this video is about why people stopped watching. And even if that trashy wrestling stuff does grab views, there's still the laundry list of other issues both on and off screen for wwe that made me stop watching. For the record, I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't enjoy it still. If you like it, more power to you, but I personally don't

[@peterlee6374]

Ed Brooking Trashy shit like that has been in wrestling since the 90s some good some shit, hardys broken gimmick in tna was so bad it’s good Being on tv means you gotta get viewers, matches alone won’t do that, look ant NXT for proof of that and AEW is doing more “sports entertainment” as they have realised they need that stuff to attract more viewers

[@edb2863]

@@peterlee6374 right... I don't disagree or anything... I just don't understand why you're lecturing me about it? I said in my first comment that it was my personal reason for not watching wwe, and you're not going to convince me to start buying or watching their product. I've already said if you like it, go watch it, I'm not going to stop you... So why bother arguing?

[@peterlee6374]

Ed Brooking not arguing :) was just giving my take :) I wouldn’t wanna firce raw on you.... that’s abuse 😜😜

[@F1rsttimer]

It's the mindset that they have. “You will like what we tell you to like and nothing can change it.” Becky Lynch was the exception. They don't care about the fans so why should I care to watch. Thank God AEW exists because at least they're patient with their stories and have great talent to watch and discover.

[@monkeyboy5595]

They’re watching AEW

[@danielstack4158]

Some are, it's not THAT many people though watching Dynamite. A lot of people don't watch wrestling period. AEW is doing less than a million viewers, there's lots of casual fans that don't watch WWE anymore or AEW.

[@jesuszamora6949]

No one who isn't into cartoon wrestling is watching AEW. AEW is a bad cartoon.

[@LordDeBahs]

orange casidy basicaly buried pac with his bs . super bad company of clowns

[@jack_yo]

Started watching in the early 80s, stopped watching completely in 2005. Full on lapsed viewer who only returned because of AEW.

[@RomanticRebel267]

Even though I dislike the majority of wrestlers today, what has discouraged me from watching wrestling is there's real credibility and value for the championships. When you realize someone is told to win and they're "awarded" the title because of how valuable they are for the company then you're going to be disappointed and not want to watch anymore wrestling.

[@BlueBloodPenn]

Personally I believe the reason is fans are not getting what they want to see and are fed up being told this is what we want. Over the years we have continuously been told what by WWE that this guy is the best or this guy is worthless and despite push back they do not listen. You can only boo Cena, Reigns, Corbin, "insert name people don't or didn't like for long periods here", etc before you have enough. You can only cheer so loud for Bryan, Styles, Owens, Balor, Nakamura, Cesaro, "insert name of good wrestler here that was pushed to mid-card", etc until you get bored of getting invested when they get pushed aside. They are so set on what they want to do that they don't listen and when they now try to push someone or try something new no one cares because we either don't trust that they will actually go anywhere or they simply have no idea how to build anyone that fans don't pay attention. And they give up after 3 weeks anyway or they'll bring in Lesnar/Goldberg/Taker/Cena/Reigns to beat everyone anyway so why should anyone care. Combine that with the oversaturation of the product, the poor story telling and the below average 3 minute matches its not hard to figure out why people have moved away to another form of entertainment of which there is so much choice out there. I much prefer AEW where I can watch Dynamite with the knowledge of I will more than likely get the kind of wrestling show I want that will build to PPVs I want to see. I actually buy AEW PPV, I haven't watched any WWE programing for about 3 years and at that time I was only watching really watching NXT and the big PPVs some of the time. There is too much good entertainment available now that I have no interest in wasting my time watching WWE for 7+ hours a week for something I am very likely not going to enjoy when I can spend maybe an hour listening to people talk about how bad it was this week which is so much more entertaining.

[@clackman622]

I canclled my subscription for Roman Reigns shoveling and never went back!!!

[@clackman622]

@ Because it takes more to being a WRESTLER than a CELEBRITY hookup and 2 moves.

[@clackman622]

@ Any meathead neckbeard can look like a champ if THE COMPANY makes everyone else lose to him wink wink.

[@peterlee6374]

ClackMan hogan did two moves and was the BIGGEST star in wrestling Difference is guys today wanna “have a great 5 star match” where as hogan did matches that got him OVER

[@clackman622]

@@peterlee6374 difference is Hogan had a catchy theme. A music video, a cartoon starring him, movie star, endorsement, great opponents that made Sense and what PEOPLE wanted to see. His 2 moves were enders. Not somethings SPAMMED over and over. The only guy in history to get an invincible mode and his leg drop finish was not STOLEN from 19 billion ppl before him!!

[@clackman622]

@@peterlee6374 oh yeah his mic skills werent Development level while getting a push.

[@version2media]

1 of the main reasons that made stop watching was the dang rematches in consecutive weeks, some like 8 weeks in row!!!

[@oscarh9265]

because the terrible writing and awful booking and mistreatment of the talent eventually takes its toll on even the biggest fan. I watched WWE since the attitude era, but have finally stopped watching because I will not waste time watching such a mess of a show XD

[@SuperSkullSplitter]

"Of all the guys that we look at, you know, the real guys who were really that guy." Meltzer at his incomprehensible finest.

[@Behaving_Golem]

'errrrrrmmmm, yknow'

[@oodatooitis6714]

Love how these guys are trying to reframe the question/responses into “their” perceptions. The questions were by casuals FOR casuals. The focus of the analysis should be trying to understand where the “responders” were coming from. Which is exactly one of the big issues with wrestling today. Married to their bubble but still bemoaning the lack of wider appeal. 🙄 The world’s moved on and wrestling hasn’t. You reap what you sow.

[@miguelfortinbras758]

They either don’t want to admit or are unaware that they are also part of the problem, as more and more casual viewers left, wrestling startEd catering more and more to the ultra hardcore fan, and what appeals to them is not very often was going to draw casual viewers, everyone is fighting over about 1.5 million dedicated wrestling fans instead of trying to pull in anyone new.

[@wolvezbane261]

@@miguelfortinbras758 What al ot people misunderstand is that the casuals and the hardcores are watching the same product. Neither side liked the product. The only difference comes between the hardcore fans who watch only WWE and the hardcore fans that didn't. The "WWE omly" guys are the issue, everyone else moved on.

[@heavenfell]

Exactly.

[@joeyhoser]

Roman Reigns isn't a star because he doesn't do anything. Everyone wanted to be Austin because he drank beer and kicked the shit out of the boss. You could listen to the Rock talk on a microphone all day. Reigns has a good look. I look at him, and then I'm done. There's no reason to keep looking.

[@khesipresents1885]

Reigns has no charisma to carry the company ...I wonder if wee can't see that or at this point they are just stubborn...he just doesn't have the Aura hulk Hogan,rock,stone cold,cena

[@khesipresents1885]

@ seth too no charisma,Otis has more personality than these guys

[@metalmorticia1]

KHESI FX it’s not that he doesn’t have any,it’s that the WWE has become so scripted & corporate in the way they do things that they won’t ever allow someone to blow up as big as the rock. They done this numerous times in the past already with rusev & Zach cardona & so on where someone gets over with the crowd on their own & the wwe pulls the plug on them because they don’t want that. It’s like they are saying if we can’t get you over with our storylines & all the shit we do for you then we can’t allow you to get over with the fans on your own. Nobody is bigger than the company these days. Reportedly triple h told rusev there will never be another John Cena again

[@namelessjedi2242]

Nailed it. He might as well be a cardboard standee. He’s so dull.

[@acodrake]

The product caters to kids, nearly every match is the same and Michael Cole plugs the same taglines and upcoming ppvs over and over til its overbearing. Everyone has the same generic gimmick with all their nicknames and catchphrases all over their ring gear. No one can talk on the mike without reading off cue cards. And the shit just is not entertaining anymore. When you look at the 90s every one was over because it was entertaining. Even the mid carders like Crash Holly and Hurricane were over because they were ENTERTAINING. Wwe is just lame bro and out of touch. Thats why Aew is doing so well

[@tazmanceltic]

It's just not the same anymore ....too mainstream no gritt and determination. It's such a sad thing for me to admitt being a 35 year old man is that I think I'm actually done with pro wrestling.

[@alexandersilady4751]

Watch New Japan

[@scottprice24]

Vince McMahon & his WWE creative ideas are the main reason why,theyve done a brilliant job making fans lose intrest & not care about what they are doing,I watched WWE from 1986 but from April 2018 I havent watched it since,its an embrassment to Pro-Wrestling,Stonecold Steve Austin was the greatest star ever his character clicked with the fans wasnt forced like Cena or Reigns were,I'm enjoying All Elite Wrestling now it's a Wrestling show fans want

[@burnsy9419]

Watched WWE since the 80s stopped watching about 4 years ago, simply coz it is unwatchable nonsense now

[@griffinemerson8475]

WWE's biggest problems is one of AEW's biggest assets WWE will have mid card guys get over naturally just to bury them pushes in bad storylines or never push them. Cardona/Ryder Miro/Rusev are great examples of this with the amount of fan involvement they had they should have been mega stars but them getting over didn't fit into the Vince's plans so no. Now AEW has huge star potential that they got on the cheap all because Vince dosen't get it. That is a recipe for retaining the 50+ demo only.

[@misternewman1576]

Yeah they've already killed Miro. And Cardona who???

[@erickessler7105]

@@misternewman1576 cardona was zack ryder in wwe for 15 yrs. zack ryder was 2 time wwe tag team champion 1 time us and ic champion in his time in wwe.

[@mitchellalexander9162]

What Happened to Matt Cardona in AEW he existed for like a Blink and You Miss him amount of Time.

[@griffinemerson8475]

@@mitchellalexander9162 His contract was only for 5 appearances and apparently they haven't finalized a longer term deal Cardona would be an amazing signing but matching Vince and co dollar for dollar is a path to ruin for a still very new company even one backed by a billionaire. Tony loves wrestling but wants to make money at it.

[@mitchellalexander9162]

@@griffinemerson8475 Well...even ya can't win em all the Competition giving the WWE Talents 'Please Don't go to AEW Contracts with Higher Pay' is at least a Good thing for the Business. Competition is Good.

[@kjorlaug1]

2 reasons: 1: WWE has becoming unbending in who they want to push and build. 2: fans are far more "in the know" in booking, backstage politics, and "kayfabe" questions than ever. The mystery has been removed

[@wolvezbane261]

That means you have to be more creative with your mysteries. The exalted one mystery in AEW was a good example of this. Everyone thought it was Matt Hardy, but when it turned out to be Brodie Lee, very few people saw it coming.

[@cobrakaiisback4709]

Wrestling died sadly when wcw went under and austin turned heel at wm 17. I thought the wcw nitro audience would tune in for raw the night after wm 17 but nope they just went on with their lives. When I was in the hospital back in january i was watching an old youtube clip of when jericho was talking to the rock. The nurse said I reemmber that that;s the rock's voice. She said she quit watching wrestling when the rock quit being full time.

[@LannyTanny90210]

Because all the organic ness in pro wrestling is gone. Everything feels forced

[@Airdathegamer]

I think the top three reasons all are the same thing: the stories aren't believable anymore. I know this statement is open to a lot of misinterpretation, so let me clarify: the core objective of any story is to make the audience believe in the story. Nobody actually believes Luke Skywalker actually exists, but most people would identify Mark Hammil in those robes as Luke, not Mark. That's because most of us believe in that story. No matter how outlandish or fantastical, you still NEED to make the audience believe in that story; this is what some people call "selling the story". So when people say they find wrestling cartoony, they actually don't realize what they're saying. I think they have a misconception of what actually bothered them. WWE today is obviously not as cartoony as 80s WWF. But it's much less believable. I just today watched some SNME. It was incredibly cartoony, way too cartoony for my tastes, in fact. But I "believed in it" far more than I do in today's WWE. And don't get me wrong, a lot of 80s WWF is absolute crap. But the core storylines and characters you can believe in, which is why it was so popular. Think also of this comparison: Scooby-Do vs the Room (the Tommy Wiseau film). Scooby-Do is obviously more cartoony, it has a freaking talking dog in it. The Room is a fairly grounded drama film. But a good episode of a Scooby-Do show is way more believable than the Room, because the Room fucking suck ass. You can laugh at the antics of Scooby and Shaggy like they're real people because it's well written. You can't feel sad when Tommy is going through a mental breakdown, because it's executed in the most terrible way imaginable.

[@schockeddog6934]

Honestly as a kid i loved it 99-06 after Eddie die than Benoit wow it really changed after that i miss jacked up roit heads and having interest personalities smashing chairs over there heads bleeding but this new generation is too soft WWE reflects the times will leave in

[@Gullyman23]

Vince never made stars. He gave stars a platform. Hogan was over before him. Austin was Austin. Rock was allowed to shine. All of the stars have become stars organically and Vince doesn't allow for improvisation, or for anyone to go off script. No one will get over in that environment.

[@danielwhittle2867]

To be fair, he definitely made 'taker who, whilst not the level of Hogan, Austin and Rock, did become a star under a gimmick Vince created.

Lmao yes he did but your a aew shill so your to blind.

[@3210-n1x]

Lol sorry?? I don't understand why you Diss the man who made every single one of us fan's? It's since his daughter has been in charge with her husband the business is gone to the dogs. You think Vince wants sjw, women's revolution garbage? Lol hardly, the only thing Vince has done is make brock lesner smash people in big matches and tbh that's been the only highlights in the last few years

[@Raymitox]

I wouldn't be so sure to say lapsed fans are not AEW fans. I'm a lapsed fan. I stopped watching wrestling altogether in 2003 right before (and probably because) I started going to college. Felt I was mature enough to not watch the product. When I came back as a fan and started watching wrestling again last year, I stumbled upon an AEW-related Reddit thread where people were like me: stopped watching wrestling in early 2000's and started watching again because of AEW.

[@freddiejohnson6137]

There still aren't that many lapsed fans watching so that puts that group still in the minority. If there were large numbers of lapsed fans then the ones watching when combined with NXT on Wednesday's would be a lot higher. Most who watch AEW are the ones that were following wrestling and watching other stuff and many will more than likely also still watch anything WWE is putting out even if they don't admit it openly.

[@tristanedwards7302]

The content isn't as mature as when I became a fan in 2000, and it's extremely formulaic - they run the same angles over and over so you already know where things are going 5 steps before they even happen. The commentary feels soulless and unnatural and everyone commentates in the same style because they have Vince breathing down their neck on their earpiece, the suffocating corporate branding is everywhere (WWE UNIVERSE! The world title just being a WWE logo, etc), the content during the year means nothing because the wrestlers they build during the year job to part timers at Wrestlemania and lose all their momentum, there is way too many camera cuts during matches to the point that for a person with motion sickness it is actually unwatchable at times, anyone who gets over in NXT and moves up to the main roster gets their character changed or they lose every match or they give them some stupid new music or attire and then they're not as cared for by the fans anymore. I can appreciate that the wrestling standard is higher for both men and women compared to the attitude era, but everything else from a story line and presentation stand point is worse. There is no cohesive story or angle that embodies the whole program episode to episode. Why would I bother to tune in to watch WWE, all these things considered? I don't think AEW hit the mark every time, but that street fight last week was awesome. Trent getting smashed into the windscreen and his back being sliced open was insane, and it was just a weekly episode - not even a pay per view match. I don't feel like my intelligence is being insulted when I watch their show.

[@CapitanoCharismatico]

I quit watching WWE around MitB earlier this year. I finally realised how much time I was wasting each and every single week for years. Good points made in this clip. I agree with a lot of them. WWE has colleted the most talented wrestlers in the world but turned almost all of them into the next "Random Guy doing WWE stuff". Why get behind someone who you KNOW won't last long, will deliver bland mouthfed promos, performs move-for-move the exact same match every time. Took a while to break the habit after ~25 years of following the program but I made it. Tried AEW, but they were not different enough for me and way too goofy for my taste. I stick to NJPW now. That's what I enjoy. It's G1 Season now and there is nothing better.

[@petersutherland8694]

CS83-ColdGrizzly I feel exactly the same way. I’m a 35-year wrestling fan who’s travelled to 11 WrestleMania’s from no’s 17-30. I tried AEW but it’s not for me. AEW could’ve been so much more but is similar to WWE in all the wrong ways. I gave up on WWE 2-3 years ago. The product is so bad I’m not sure anything could bring me back to watching WWE full-time. Japan is where it’s at. It’s the best wrestling in the world, and the G1 is a prime example. Mix that with some independent wrestling here in the U.K. and I’m sorted.

[@craigoneill2216]

It’s garbage now I couldn’t sit through 10 minutes of any show

[@destinholland3399]

Have u watched NXT or SmackDown recently

[@imperiledparallel199]

It's far more pleasant to listen to 30 minutes or so of KZbin videos critiquing and summarizing the week's wrestling than it is to actually suffer through 6+ plodding hours of it. This wasn't an option prior to the last few years.

[@Immortalangel14]

Tbh i used to be a huge wrestling fan but I dont even watch wrestling anymore. WWE and AEW its all cheap comedy wrestling and meaningless matches with no story.

[@ULATAN.]

The pro wrestling fans who aren’t come back, are watching MMA now.

[@csquad81]

This article talked about why wrestling fans left and Wrestling Observer tries to explain why thats always not the case. That is also a huge problem. People are telling you what the issues are and you try tell them they are wrong. Listen to fans and adjust your approach. As for WWE, they're not letting any wrestler get bigger than the company. WWE pushing wrestlers that fans don't care for and crap on wrestlers the fans gravitate to. WWE did not want to push Daniel Bryan, Becky Lynch, and Kofi. The fans had to force WWE's hand. Until WWE stop doing that and give storylines that does not insult the viewers, wrestling will be in the gutter for them. Thank goodness for AEW and NJPW.

[@oodatooitis6714]

THIS - although as a semi lapsed fan, I’m not that into AEW either. I see them as trying to do better what WWE does, and hitting the mark only once in a while. Thing is, I don’t want to watch more WWE like wrestling, and haven’t for a long time.

[@TrueJoeyBowie]

Did Dave Meltzer just casually mention that he used to watch soap operas? Not something I would have guessed.

[@Jackalopemusic]

My hypothesis... I think wrestling (like sports) at its core when it comes to the process of becoming a regular part of an individual's entertainment diet has and potentially will forever be something of an acquired taste. I suspect that few people can outline and then prescribe the process that is most effective for any promotion to set about the necessary catering process to convert curious individuals to casuals to die-hards. It's probably best to monitor what worked to entertain each and provide it to them regularly. All the while working diligently not to lose the novelty of each element of the product.

[@swimmerguy2209]

I stopped watching around 2017-2018. The Roman push and the sanitized cooperate product added with the seemingly endless hours of weekly TV just made me realize that I could find better things to do with my time. WWE constantly insults it's viewers intelligence and I finally decided it wasn't worth my attention. Thank goodness for AEW and New Japan.

[@petersutherland8694]

Main reason: WWE isn’t wrestling, it’s Sport Entertainment. Real Wrestling fans still watch wrestling, but elsewhere, such as Japan and good independent promotions.

[@connerhuston2613]

Agreed 👍

[@pmfg11]

WWE has always been sports entertainment and the Attitude Era was sports entertainment

[@Hulkamania4eva]

The entire show is a bad cartoon. They out no effort into taking anything seriously hence it is a joke

[@destinholland3399]

You obviously have never watched NXT

[@CrossfacePanda]

I think they, and every other wrestling company in the world, should worry less about lapsed old fans, and more about attracting new fans. Old fans come and go. Some will be super hardcore and stick with you no matter what. Others will have their tastes and likes change as they grow older, while others are stuck in their ways and will never change, and it’s impossible to cater to all of them. Young potential fans on the other hand come in with fewer preconcieved notions of what your product is or “should” be, meaning that you can adapt it to fit what the current generation likes (unless you’re out of touch and don’t understand what they want to see, of course...). And as a bonus you’ll also make some hardcore fans that’ll stick around in the future as you change the product yet again for future generations of fans. Point is, you have to constantly keep moving forward, constantly change and adapt, and constantly aim to attract a new generation of fans. If you worry about fans you had in the past, you’ll end up losing your ability to attract new ones, and eventually, your product becomes irrelevant and dies.

[@graefx]

Your options for wrestling is either a pirate stunt show or some bizarre comedy nonsense. Sure there's some angles and really athletic guys, but the content has gotten more and more insular. Everything is done with a heavy wink towards the remaining audience. For lack of a better term, wrestling got real dumb. You can say the 80s were cartoonish but they were a relative blip between 'this is a real sport' and mirroring the pop culture of the time.

[@wolvezbane261]

WWE controlled what pro wrestling was in the US. They fucked America's perception of pro wrestling. They also bought out and ruined their competition. WWE had a monopoly on American wrestling until AEW came around. This generations wrestlers have to adapt, that means acknowledging wrestling for what it is today and being smartasses about it. If you can't accept it then you're probably in that age range that watched before the monopoly and thus wrestling isn't for you anymore.

[@3210-n1x]

The reason is it's not the same anymore it's not for us its for a new generation, when hogan and rock finished at mania so did wrestling. What we have today is not what we loved, we will never have another rock vs hogan, no stars no cool fans no cool commentary no cool sets, no psychology no selling no heat.

[@misternogood]

If your fighting is believed to be real, your stories don't have to be good (ufc, rock n wrestling wwf, nwa, and before). If not, your stories need to be realistic or compelling (attitude era). If your combat is bad or goofy looking, and your stories are too, you become a super niche product. That is wrestling today.

[@rajicasas]

I stopped watching WWE in 2006 when i went to high school. I started watching again 2010 when WWE had the Nexus angle but I was still on and off watching it. It was in 2011 when CM Punk dropped did the "pipebomb" shoot that kept me watching every week. Right now I just keep tabs on WWE / AEW / NJPW match results via KZbin clips.

[@wozthescott2804]

Nobody cares

[@billywelch8047]

For me, it's the lack of somewhat believable stars, especially heels, in all the companies.

[@notohous]

The product sucks and/or I just grew out of it would probably be the answer?🤷🏻‍♂️

[@iceblue298]

WWE is awful and hasbeen for a long time. Thank god AEW came along, much better and a lot closer to the attitude era style

[@jcross996]

Because it's no longer entertaining... Except to a old geezer who has a 3 week memory.. then their "superstars" call out fans for not having patience and blame them... 3 interesting storylines at the moment 1. Reigns Vs USO 2. Bailey vs Banks 3. Bliss and Fiend.. but it's not worth watching the 7+ hours of TV when I can get updated on their youtube videos. Is there actually a reason to watch these shows anymore??

[@Rosario_Verano]

Ironic for someone who calls himself a ''wrestling fan'' to say it, but for me it's the fact that the American companies have put too much focus on the actual wrestling which has become the selling point. I'm not interested in watching ''good wrestlers'' and ''workrate wrestling''.

[@santanu-fr]

Nobody I known in real life friends or relatives watch Wrestling. & It wouldn't even be embarrassing if I told them Wrestling stuff bcoz they left so long ago they don't even know it's not good.

[@kovulion7777]

Simple, What did Stone Cold do to Vince when McMahon kept berating him, you already know what move he did and how people popped Today, what did the entire roster do when Stephanie or HHH threatened their job in a match, they pout and cry and went back the locker room Who would want to watch a superhero movie where the hero backed away from the villain in the final fight?

[@heavymetalslime]

It still is cartoonish, lights, leds everywhere, excessive physical expression. It’s like watching a live action american cartoon.

[@ojnib]

One of my best friends who I grew up watching WWE with, now doesn’t watch/“like” wrestling anymore. He never expanded to watching other promotions like myself and another close fan so while we became bigger pro wrestling fans and smaller WWE fans, he only stuck with WWE and fell out completely. To me, personally, that’s my evidence of WWE’s decline in quality.

[@johnbeer4963]

Vince McMahon killed wrestling for me. I watch the AEW ppvs but i've no time for it anymore on the weekly. Hard to say what was the straw that broke the camel's back after so many years of Vince's bullshit creative. It's not cartoonish, It's like a british soap opera - Coronation Street with muscles. For the record, i'm of the age where Jim Cornette promos and Roddy Piper are why i l..used to love the business.

[@TommyG1321]

I agree with Dave that the constant storylines being started to just get dropped a few weeks later is so frustrating

[@FeelMyFerret]

I can answer this. Vince McManon.

[@DavidMajors]

They got old. And wrestling something you love as a kid and you grow out of, unless you're a hardcore fan.

[@BluSpykz]

The closest you'll get to a working survey is to ask people who watch other products who used to watch WWE/F but no longer do... And ask them why. The "cartoonish" reason, I would guess, is not so much the cartoon nature of the product - but the outside opinion of wrestling in general. You tell someone not familiar with wrestling that you like it and you're sure to hear one of a couple of phrases, "you know it's fake", "you know it's for kids"... Caricature-esque responses.

[@peterlee6374]

That’s wrestling in general now it just isn’t cool and hasn’t been for a while Problem is when something wrestling related goes viral it was stuff like Joey Ryan’s dick flip, invisible hand grenades or a sequence that looks like is synchronised ballet Wwe is also to blame for being a mostly bland product that caters to a more family friendly audience ( although that has lead them to massive profits from advertising ) Wwe has been at the top unchallenged for 20 years, so didn’t even have to try and have gotten lazy because of it Do they do some good stuff?? Sure and that stuff should be praised, it often isn’t, but there’s a lot of crap surrounding it which doesn’t help WWE can and SHOULD be better and for that AEW has to be a success and not just appeal to the more Niche fan base it does at the minute AEW needs a top feud at the at the top of the card with guys who are not ex WWE for it to really take off as all people with think is “oh look it’s TNA again”

[@YoungRiaz]

The promotions I watch are ecw roh njpw and aew

[@NickGerse]

I think Dave missed the point about the poll results. People aren’t saying the storylines are cartoony, I think they’re referring to the fake looking product. The in-ring looks so unrealistic these days and no one sells anymore.

[@xShoTime83x]

04:23 - Dave Meltzer saying it's so weird fans think wrestling is too cartoonish....-Points to AEW, Apricot Cassidy, Mimosa Mayhem, COVID Jericho, Matt Hardy nearly dying...twice, the best friends with Judy Bagwell - just the 2020 version-...And that's all within the past two months. But AEW isn't cartoonish.

[@FrnechFrieLikePie]

I actually got back into it again recently, really having a lot of fun with NXT and AEW. Raw and Smackdown on the other hand... wow, now I remember why I stopped.

[@bonesoftheark4665]

I just stopped on aew and wwe like 6 weeks ago... just happened.

[@nu-metalfan2654]

I wouldn’t call myself a casual because I love wrestling too much to be a casual, but my 3 biggest issues with WWE are the lack of new stars and new interesting characters like the previous generation of Cena, Batista, Edge, RVD, Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, Orton, Lesnar etc etc. Another big problem is the shows look too overproduced and glossy, and the other problem I have is with this 50/50 and start and stop pushes that don’t get the talent over.

[@JBlood-gf5pv]

This gets at one way AEW is failing their mandate. The meta stuff, the comedy, the presentation of wrestling as self-aware of it's own silliness, really is too much of what the show is. Those aspects should be moments of texture, or flashes in a product that overall aims to be cool, and suspend the audience's disbelief. It's really a tonal dynamic that needs to be flipped. That can occur, while not compromising anyone's style, but simply adapting it to a presentation that feels urgent, and makes you believe.

[@hhhh666]

Some might say that the WWE was and is killing the business

[@destinholland3399]

Oh please I obviously never watched NXT

[@JustoBlondo]

If we’re talking WWE, I’m not that invested anymore because I can miss a show and not feel bad about it. There’s no surprise in storylines, conclusions in matches, appearances, etc. I just don’t think I will miss anything if I just stopped watching for a few weeks, a month or two, maybe a year! They need to be fresher with their ideas or keep it interesting!

[@simonboehm8400]

I think cartoonish doesn't just mean silly gimmicks or storylines. It means contrived and too elaborate in-ring spots, too much bad/silly comedy, over-produced television (esp. WWE), and written promos with odd verbiage. The theme is that nothing seems real anymore. The appeal of wrestling, the way to emotional involvement, is suspension of disbelieve. Wrestling has completely dropped the ball on that with a broad audience and limits itself now to their niche crowd.