Fabio Costa: "Meditation" in 19-EDO (1/3-tone) - 2 versions: Orchestra / Organ

[@johnstarrett7754]

Beautiful harmonies!

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

Thanks so much, John!

[@sukopyramid]

Stunning work! This are flavors I’ve never tasted before and that I’m enjoying tremendously!

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

Thanks so much! I just watched some of your stuff, I loved it! :-))

[@sukopyramid]

FabioCostaMusic You are welcome, and thanks for checking my stuff out :)) glad you liked it!

[@EmptyKingdoms]

Lovely.

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

Thank you so much!

[@oakie__doke]

Yes!

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

thank you a lot!

[@JLMoriart]

This is sick!!!!!

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

Thank you, I guess... :-)

[@JLMoriart]

Listening again, this is still sick :-)

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

@@JLMoriart cool!

[@chadatom]

I wonder if you have tried slightly stretching the octave with 19ET, say by 3¢ or a little more? In my experience it makes the major thirds and fifths more familiar while keeping very good minor thirds, and that kind of stretch of the octave is one that orchestras and piano tuners seem to make naturally. I agree 19ET seems a good bridge between renaissance and contemporary music; the challenge is not overwhelming the unfamiliar listener on a first hearing!

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

Hi Andrew, thanks for the interest and the comment. I haven't yet tried what you refer to, but I have looked theoretically at that, 93-EDO-30 (93 Equal division of 30) amounts to precisely those 3 cents per octave you refer to. I suppose it would bring about some improvement, though perhaps not very radically so. Thank you!

[@rogerantonybennett5272]

Can I suggest you keep the 19et framework and preserve the wonderful (6/5)^19=(2^5)approx(very good approx!). By skipping to 171et, where 171=19x9, this allows for 9 very micro intervals of 19et at each step. Each step of 171et is the correction of the imperfect 3/2 in 19et, so that magically 171et gives you 99 steps for the imperfect 19et 3/2 bad approx, corrected by 100 steps for a fairly clean 3/2. Most of the low primes as frequency ratios are wonderfully covered by 171et. But of course JUST INTONATION is the system we should all use in a precise way, whilst rejecting all equal temperaments. Nonetheless PANTONAL is best of all: "Any pitch goes"... complete freedom. But 171et is a good reference to musical intervals rather than frequencies. This is a subject for the NURDtastic amongst us ! I wish I had perfect pantonal ears...

[@TomWinspear]

Incredible work on this! Wow. Am I reading correctly that this is synthesized? What samples and tuning method/software do you prefer?

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

Hi Tom, thanks! Yes, this is all made with samples. I use several, but mainly VSL, as DAW I use Reaper.

[@AttitudeCastle]

@@Fabio_Costa_Music Hey Fabio not to reply to an old message but would love to learn more about how this is made/tuned (in software!) Is it all retuned via Kontakt or how is this achieved? It sounds great!

[@fabiocosta4523]

@@AttitudeCastle VSL has custom tuning for 12 notes only, if I recall for maximal 100 cents. So I divided each channel into 2 tracks, each one having a subset of the larger EDO, and rerouted the midi notes correspondingly.

[@rogerantonybennett5272]

I'm beginning to like this music more than on 1st hearing. It has a cluttered Charles Ives clumsy logic to it. I recommend anybody new to these sonic realms not to overlook HARRY PARTCH's music which has a recognizable character to it. Partch's version of JUST INTONATION is a fine way to further exploration. The mathematics of frequency ratios is quite tricky. Their logarithms correspond to musical intervals. Most equal temperaments are the result of sloppy thinking (theory). 171et is one of the best (since it contains 19et, allowing for good 6/5 and 5/3). Fabio Costa has a good answer to Hoenheim below.... Thank you F.G. & listeners.....

[@IloveTrump2025]

Geil!

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

Ein ultraviolettes, brasilianisches Dankeschön!

[@PickLost]

It seems so dissonant to me. How can i get to enjoy this type of music.

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

Thanks for the comment. The organ version here is perhaps less dissonant in general, have you listened into it? But going into your very valid question, I think, there are various aspects to the aural perception of consonance or dissonance. First, there are the acquired habits, the brain-wiring of listening, how we are used to signify what we hear - which I believe is cultural and subjective to a large degree. Then I see other more objective components inherent to the physics of harmony: - The further up one goes in the harmonic series, the less the intervals are likely to be heard as a consonance (even if they represent a natural number ratio), so a 2:3 (fifth) or a 5:4 (major third) ratios have a much stronger consonance effect than something like 10:13 for instance, a higher-limit interval that for me needs much more context (other notes of the harmony forming a chord, a harmonic context) - A system such as the 19-note equal temperament used here has a lot of error, or pitch deviation from the pure intervals it approximates (for that matter, try comparing this recording to another version of the piece in just-intonation, kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4nKi5x6mpiWf68 ); this "error" is aurally "corrected" by the ear/brain with time and practice - very much like the eye will learn to adapt to wearing glasses which displace an image sideways. All in one, your preception of dissonance likely has to do with: (1) timbre (horns x organ) (2) inherent "difficulty" of higher-limit harmonic information (also getting used to "know" those harmonies) (3) the way we are used to listening (brain) and the "correction-hearing" (german "Zurechthören") that is developed by the brain with practice to extract that harmonic information out of the "error" of the respective tone-system and its context. I hope that helps. Best! Fabio

[@PickLost]

@@Fabio_Costa_Music That makes sense. Thank you for your very complete and helpful answer! As you said it is something to get familiar with and used to. We're so formated with 12-note system that any other other system just sounds alien. But i'm working on it! I will practice my brain to recognize and understand those new intervals! Just one question, I didn't understand that bit "2:3 (fifth) or a 5:4 (major third)". What are those ratios ? Thanks again!

[@Fabio_Costa_Music]

@@PickLost those ratios refer to the overtone series (natural multiples of fundamental frequency). All intervals and harmonies derive from it. So in the example 5:4 is the interval between the fifth and the 4th harmonics, which are a (natural, or just) major third.:-)

[@themathguy]

@@Fabio_Costa_Music The thing I always wonder about is if deviating from the usual 12-note scale can make it possible for music to be even more consonant. I know about just intonation, but a lot of times this just means "correcting" the frequencies of notes that were originally composed in a 12-note scale, which still seems limiting to me. You could argue that "nature" doesn't know anything about there being just 12 notes.

[@oscargill423]

Repetition legitimises.

[@rogerantonybennett5272]

There's possibilities here. Look at Andrew Chadwick's comment & replies...