Face Milling on the Horizontal Mill: Machining Straight Edges

Some time back, I had some smaller camel back straight edge castings made for me. In this video, we will be milling two of the surfaces on the straight edges flat and perpendicular to one another on my Kearney & Trecker 2H Horizontal Milling Machine using a face mill. I will experiment with different depths of cut as well as feed rates to accomplish the task at hand.
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[@chuckhaynes6458]

One of the most interesting jobs I've had was at North American Aircraft. I was involved in making precision jigs and fixtures for mass producing odd shaped items like these. You've brought back some fond memories.

[@onlooker251]

Keith’s the sort of guy I would like to have as a friend or neighbour. He always appears as a friendly and approachable personality. Probably a great guy to bounce ideas off when you get stuck working out how to do some difficult project. - Keith, interesting videos, keep them coming and thanks for sharing. John 🇬🇧

[@jrrdw]

Keep the extra's and make more for a scraping class. What a good way to get two birds with one stone. Disclaimer: No birds where hurt during or as a result of this comment.

[@jefferdman5921]

Very nice! Design, Print, then Mill. Looking forward to seeing the straight edge used to bring that old Monarch back to life.

[@shawnstrode3825]

That one straight edge would make a fitting paper weight. It reflects your love of machines, restoration and precision. Anyone who knows you would understand. Many who don't would be curious and there is a good story with it.

[@fairweatherfoundry715]

Keith, one thing that may be worth learning, and something that I do with my iron castings, is to weld up voids using a torch and actual cast iron rod (hard to find but it's out there). It is literally a piece of small, skinny cast iron produced by a sand mold. You need a bit of flux, but this works well because you are using cast iron to weld the void, which makes it essentially invisible, unlike brazing. You would need to re-machine the flat surface after welding though. GREAT video!! Damn 0.200" cuts!!!

[@ronalddavis]

good to see you overcoming your reluctance to make a heavy cut

[@BobPegram]

Really great to see chips being made in the shop again! I'm also looking forward to when sawdust and other wood leftovers are made in the woodworking half of the shop!

[@notsofresh8563]

Great vid Keith, Thanks. Couple comments: Those are pretty new castings and you just removed a pretty good chunk of metal, are you going to age them now? Are you concerned about movement? When you were cutting those 200 thou cuts, if you look close right as the cutter finishes, the final corner is breaking away in the casting. Depending on the project you may want to watch out for this. The flawed casting could be adapted to clamping duty. It can bridge gaps to allow 1 clamp in the center to hold down a part in 2 places. You could also make it into a fence type object for the mag chuck on the surface grinder. Or you could epoxy the hole and use it as intended. It shouldn't effect flatness, and if you are blueing for scraping, just make sure to slide the straightedge a little further so the cast surface slides over every bit of the part. Is there any reason you can't turcite a straightedge? That would make a great experiment video. You still have some turcite if I am correct, leftover from one of yer machines.

[@JustJimWillDo]

Watching that big Kearney & Trecker chow down on that gray 'arn' was like feeding time at the zoo! Nom nom nom.

[@bcbloc02]

I can't believe somewhere you dont have a horizontal milling cutter with a 45deg cutting edge that you could use to mill those dovetails with them sitting on their bases. Easy peezy!!

[@notsofresh8563]

I seen that cutter sitting in the rack on the wall, I am sure.......However, the parts do have a machined 90 now, he could just throw the straightedge in a v-block.

[@waynep343]

the diesel engine shop was cleaning out stuff when the owner died. i was going thru stuff about to go in the 18 cubic yard dumpster. i found some keyway cutters. 2" bore.. 1/2 to 1" wide and 6 to 10" in diameter. the boss was not there.. the employees would not give them to me. they did set them aside.. but when i left they pitched them .. the next day.. i ask the boss about them.. oh.. you could have had those.. i threw away like 10,000 of them.. i was almost crying. he said no machinery dealer wanted them. i did call the scrap buyer to warn them not to send them thru the shreader .. i did get some nice stuff that day.. two 2,000 foot pound torque wrenches a 1000 foot pound torque wrench..3 or 4 torque multipliers. enerpack rams and a 120 volt pump for them. i.imgur.com/Tr3jJDG.jpg i.imgur.com/lMSnIC3.jpg i.imgur.com/FcQNOXs.jpg i.imgur.com/zv9dz93.jpg

[@mrayco]

First I saw the setup I Sayed so one shot together

[@mrayco]

Other way the top up so it can be done the straight edge and the 45° at same setup no need for horizontal orientation could be done vertically.

[@2listening1]

Good morning Keith and the Keiths! :)

[@WillyBemis]

Thank you Keith!

[@duesing6]

Loved this video.

[@inmyshedwithbc.]

Hello from Bernie. The straight edges are a perfect shaper job.

[@ruperthartop7202]

Great video Keith. Thanks

[@StreuB1]

That machine, with that cutter; it would take .250in. @ 20in/min without knowing anything was there. That machine is solid and has the power. My shop teacher, to give an idea on how easy iron machines and what a big machine is capable of. Took a full insert depth of cut and engaged the rapid traverse. It flew trough it no problem.....it had so much tool pressure that it actually pushed the part on the table, even with the hold downs.

[@Patriot1776]

DANG! I wanna see that on video!! XD

[@hmw-ms3tx]

@@Patriot1776 Hello Patriot1776. If you're interested I have a video on my channel where I take a .200 deep cut at about 15 inches a minute in 4140 with a horizontal mill. You can skip to the 14 minute mark of the video where I make this cut. Ken

[@ChrisFiggatt]

Great, you’re going to have everybody wanting to buy mini straightedges now! 😂

[@charlesmarlin6632]

Great Video Keith!! :-) It is always fun to help out and draw up Your great ideas with SolidWorks CAD :-) CHEERS, CHARLES

[@shamsheerpeeransab4128]

Very good job & work

[@BKD70]

More Metal Mowing Madness!!

[@R.E.HILL_]

Man that one cut nice... excellent video...

[@sandrammer]

Looks like the foundry should have put a chill at one end of the straight edges and a riser at the other end for directional solidification. The defect was a simple void caused by lack of metal being fed into the solidifying casting and it appeared, as the defect was in the same place in all the castings I was able to see, would have been corrected easily. Iron most often doesn't need much in the way of risering due to its' minimal shrinkage but in this case a riser would have helped get rid of that defect. Otherwise, nice clean looking castings.

[@jackwittlich8409]

I'm glad there was another foundryman out there who could spot the shrink and the single gate in the casting. They did look good on the outside, but internal shrink at contact can slip through visual inspection. Thanks, sandrammer for the correct observation.

[@bencartee2113]

Next batch add your logo, or old school raised lettering to the casting....coooool

[@charlesmarlin6632]

Great idea!! :-) When we made the 3D-Printed Patterns for the Vulcan Boiler I put a big V on the Spider and also put 1917 - 2017 on the side for the 100 year anniversary of the Vulcan Boiler Steam Engine :-) It seemed to come out well on the Castings :-) Link showing photos ctmprojectsblog.wordpress.com/2016/04/19/aluminum-cast-drill-press-knobs/ :-)

[@bencartee2113]

Exactly! Old school revival using new school technology. Thanks for the link!

[@matthewtroiano3024]

Looks like a great paper weight.

[@63256325N]

Thanks for the videos.

[@kevinbyrne4538]

I hope that you recover from the cold / hay fever soon.

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing.

[@shadrachmalooly9394]

Another great video

[@alexreeve]

Now you got a nice collectiion from Abom to Gotteswinter size :)

[@siggyincr7447]

On the casting with the void, it really doesn't effect the function of the tool whatsoever. I might however take a small ball-nose mill and clean the void up so that it doesn't collect dirt that might get in between the flat surfaces at an inopportune moment. I'd be careful about filling it in. Unless the material you use has nearly identical thermal expansion properties you could end up with a small raised spot or induced tension that can warp the tool with temperature changes. Someone below mentioned putting a logo of yours on any future castings. I think that would be a great idea if you do decide to make more of these to sell to your viewers. On a side note, has anyone ever heard of cryogenically treating castings to make them more stable and wear resistant. I worked with a maintenance guy once who said he worded in a company that would send all sorts of tools out for cold treatment and it would result in increase wear resistance and better stability of the part with temperature changes.

[@OldIronShops]

Nice pattern wish I had one of those

[@bostedtap8399]

Nice project, could you have set up the camel backs with the 45° facing down, so to machine the back perpendicular to the datum face?.

[@mark-]

Hi Keith, I noticed that when you were doing the 200th pass on the sides, the mill was chipping (breaking) off some of metal. And you showed the end with a chip on it. Was that 200th pass on the sides a mistake ?

[@WeirdHarold49]

Make the printer files available and let people cast/machine their own.

[@tonybaggett1984]

I'll take the broke one! It's good enough for me!

[@denniswilliams8747]

You could braze the void and have a usable straight edge. Maybe pass the repaired SE along to some one not as fussy. :

[@BustedWalletGarage]

Dennis Williams but the steel & other alloys would shrink/grow at different rates with temperature ?

[@denniswilliams8747]

Hi THe small void would not affect it use as a precision straight edge to any large degree filled with bronze or not. in my opinion for what ever that is worth. No experience with precision scraping.

[@holyblood1]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/i3iZfYluq52KY5I

[@krzysztofs6428]

Rule No. 5: Don't waste goods.

[@britishreaction54]

Thoroughly enjoyed watching that. What make of machine is the horizontal mill? I really like how the vertical head is held supported to one side when not in use. It will be an American make that I won't be too familiar with I expect. Once you had finished your hands betrayed your cast iron machining activities! It's a really filthy job!

[@kc8bdr]

Kearney & Trecker 2H Horizontal Milling Machine

[@jimturcott9883]

K&T (Kearney and Trekker - not sure of the exact spelling)

[@britishreaction54]

Thanks for that.

[@nevetslleksah]

Carl Wilson - I wear 6 mil nitrile gloves in my shop to keep my hands clean.

[@britishreaction54]

I also wear nitrile gloves when I remember to buy them.

[@williamsquires3070]

Hi Keith! Maybe you could show - after each stage (milling, grinding, and scraping) - how flat they are with your optical flats?

[@houseofbrokendobbsthings5537]

What does a small casting job like that cost? I like that size - very handy. _Dan_

[@rpnp2]

House of Broken Dobbs Things _ with Dan Dobbs +1 i would like to have a 6 inch one

[@ronaldcrowder404]

I know this is an older video but it raises a question for me . I am a poor man and am going to build my own machines . I have been studying of which to build a vertical or horizontal mill . Question is could this operation be done with a fly cutter at a slower pace of thickness I'm sure?

[@memery301]

Very good video, a product called PC-7 two part epoxy would work excellent for the void repair. Then reclean the surface and then give the straight edge away. Someone that is not a professional like you are would love to have it.

[@Daniel-vq9zb]

What was the cost per part to have these cast?

[@truracer20]

Keith , how about breaking out the new tig machine and filling that inclusion ?

[@waynep343]

the casting with the hole.. drill it straight thru so you can mount an indicator right thru the top of the camel back to check for low spots as you slide it along surfaces.

[@infoanorexic]

sounds like an idea that is well worth considering. Maybe add several holes. One in center, one about 1" from each end, and whatever seems best in between.

[@Rich206L]

Keith, no intent to open old wounds, but you did a lot of work building the furnace so you could cast the dials for the Victor Safe. Any chance of seeing that anytime in the future? After I found you from a recommendation by Keith Fenner, that was the first video I watched from you (after the pulley thing, of course). 3 years ago? How's the cat and did you plant a new tree in the front yard? How about a few pictures... Rich

[@CompEdgeX2013]

That one with the inclusion would appear to be the perfect candidate to make a small precision level.. :-)

[@risby2]

Good stuff

[@dinotom1]

If you saved the shavings from the milling process you can clean out the void, melt down the shavings, fill in the void and re-machine the bottom. using the melted shavings assures you are using the same metal type.

[@AustralViking]

I have a question, It was my understanding that a surface ground surface is as flat and accurate as one which has been scraped if not more so, but, that the advantage of the scraped surface is that it leaves room for oil and lubrication to flow between the sliding surfaces and reduce friction by only sliding on the "islands" of flat surface. If this is the case, then given that you are making a reference tool and not an actual sliding surface, why do the scraping ? for example you don't scrape your ground surface plate ? genuinely interested in understanding the processes and theories involved.. thanks..

[@R.E.HILL_]

Andrew B me too.. scraped for surfaces that slides or endure friction and use oil for lube..

[@siggyincr7447]

If your grinder is very precise, yes. But most grinders already have a small amount of wear that makes the table teeter totter a few tenths or more. He'll see that soon enough once he blues it up before scraping.

[@duobob]

The milled finish is not accurate enough. Also, there WILL be movement after removing that much material. Finally, the straightedge is to be used both as a reference surface and for holding ink to transfer to other surfaces. Scraped surfaces do well for all of that. Ground surfaces do not hold ink. Machined surfaces are not accurate enough. Keith is not inventing anything here, this stuff has been known for a couple hundred years. Stick with what works well...

[@mikedigirolamo3991]

Keith, for the RPM calculation, how did you figure this as a 6" cutter, it looks twice that size to me? Curious minds would love to know :)

[@seanhazelwood3311]

That compound looks like ours, lol. Been crashed into the chuck a few too many times.

[@Jeff14103]

What are you asking for the 9" one? I would Like one. Great video's

[@expatconn7242]

Keith I found a metal planner 1000 complete .. Is that a good deal?

[@bigun447]

My thought would to be go ahead and grind the one with the inclusion. It would still be flat and if you did not scrape it you could use it where you did not want to possibly damage a good one.

[@whitehoose]

Just for giggles I'd be forced to take the casting with the inclusion down to 4" - or nearest. I find I use my 4"/100mm pocket rule by preference. As a starter I imagine it would help assess "the situation" in situ before you start to dismantle and do the serious stuff.

[@phillipyannone3195]

Is it necessary to age castings for stability? If so, for how long?

[@johanvansteenbeeck8608]

Dear Keith, will that void have any effect on the use or accuracy of the straight edge ?

[@tmcom]

Excellent video as usual. Any chance your 3d modeling guru would share his file? A link to him would help. I use fusion360/meshmixer for modeling/splitting.

[@rcworks9762]

@Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Didn't you make a furnace capable of melting cast iron last year? Why not do the pours in-house?

[@Daniel-vq9zb]

Are they hardened?

[@tomclark6271]

Was that conventional or climb milling?

[@joesteele9480]

I have heard that cast iron has to be aged for a year or more. Will these hold a straight edge over time?

[@ingmarm8858]

I may be misunderstanding this Keith but you looked up the cutting speed you should be using, picked an RPM and then threw that all out the window and picked your own feed rate which was in no way related to the formula you looked up? Isn't SFM related to cutter RPM AND feedrate?

[@CraigLYoung]

Robrenz used a technique to fill a void in Oxtools level that he scraped. Do you think that technique would work here?

[@Shermingtan]

If you can't salvage it you could make a little "contest" (draw a single person from comments) to give it to your viewers. I sure as heck wouldn't mind a good looking display/desktoy/paperweight machined by you! Would be nice memorabilia and hopefully not too much work for you if you just draw a random person.

[@petemclinc]

The larger straight edge should be fed with 3 risers, one at each end and one in the middle to feed metal as it solidifies.

[@sharkrivermachine]

Fill that void with some JB Weld and it will be good as new.

[@infoanorexic]

I had an engine block to a John Deere 440 bored out to 0.040 over (largest oversize pistons your could get). Went to wipe a spot of dirt out of one bore during assembly, not only did the spot refuse to be removed, it got larger. Turned out to be one of those voids. Took it back to the shop that did the boring work. The owner of the shop said to fill it with silver solder and hone it out. I couldn't believe it. I'm wondering how this guy has managed to stay in business as long as he has (& surely he must be pulling my leg). He was serious. Fortunately, the man he had doing block work didn't agree. He found some sleeving material that would work on his shelf full of leftovers, step bored the bad cylinder (plenty of cast for that on those blocks), press fitted the sleeve with loctite, and bored that to match the other cylinder. That was a first class fix. Two days later I was returning the crankshaft to them to be re-done. They'd left around 0.020 too much on the rod journals. Torqued the connecting rods down and it would lock up solid. It was a small miracle that the bearing were not ruined (special order, very expensive). On setting it down in their entryway, and telling them what was wrong, they started to argue about what we'd found. The man that did the work on the block stepped in from the back with a mic in his hand and started checking it. " (?????) did this one, this man is right, I'll take care of it," and told me it would be ready in two hours. I did my afternoon bus runs and made it back in time to pick it up, corrected without further argument (or charge). Last I knew, that shop was still operating, though I can't see how.

[@sharkrivermachine]

I used to own and operate an automotive machine shop. You would be shocked to know some of the repairs to were done successfully with JB Weld. But it has to be the original slow cure formula. The JB Quick does not do nearly as good a job.

[@infoanorexic]

I've seen it used, and it worked quite well, for what would have been a hopeless case otherwise. Other situations, not so well. Some times you won't know unless you try it. Cracked water jackets seems to be the most popular thing for it.

[@waynep343]

a drag racer was referred to a crank shop while on the road to get his crank straightened. the next day the person who referred him saw him spinning his crank in the stand and cussing.. i got it straightened but now all my indicators have stopped working.. i set them up and zero them. they don't move at all when i spin the crank . the other guy said.. that is the exact reason i sent you to that obscure shop. its perfectly straight.

[@Phantomthecat]

Glued a huge chunk of a alloy timing case back on with JB weld on a modern TD6 engine. 5 years on, still perfect and no oil leaks. 👍

[@WilliamTMusil]

What I want to know is how many extra were cast and when will the extras be for sale or trade? Lol

[@piccilos]

Sell the blanks, I bet there would be some interest in the small ones. Or if nothing else, people can use them to practice on before they start working on their machines.

[@Mekratrig]

Seen some othar of Keith's vids where he is verr careful to put heat into a piece he is working on, or bleed heat off. Why is heat buildup not a problem here.

[@clham612]

What inserts are you using on that cast iron?

[@jusb1066]

is there a risk of breaking the end of the cut when taking a heavy cut?

[@ilovehobbies3782]

Jusb1066 I take deep cuts with my facemills and have never had an issue. As long as your parts are clamped down well and don’t break free from the table.

[@notsofresh8563]

If you look close, the cast iron is breaking out when the cutter leaves the part on the 200 thou cuts. It is only a little breakout, but depending on casting quality and situation, this could ruin a part.

[@mrayco]

I think you forgot to cover the bed ways with some rag, I can't see all that cast dust on the bed ways

[@billrutledge2441]

Does the cutter only cut on the down stock or is it parallel to the piece so it cuts both on the down and up stroke?

[@BobPegram]

If you look at the video again, you'll see light between the part and the back of the cutter. It extends to at least half the width of the cutter. I'd say that's proof that it was only cutting on the down stroke. I know nothing, what's a normal angle and what angle's are used for special cases?

[@TERRYRONALDRACKLEY]

You could make about 100 of them and sell them if you had the time or set them back when you did have time.

[@kevinbyrne4538]

3:48 -- Cattail Foundry, 167 W Cattail Rd, Gordonville, PA

[@zeke1eod]

Thanks for sharing, awesome information. I came from Abom79s channel. God bless

[@underlinglabs2948]

I want one just as a straight edge for drawing schematics and stuff.

[@DSCKy]

How much for the one with the void in it? :)

[@jameskerns717]

Dear Mr. Rucker. Clearly, you don't have enough tools. ;-)

[@nevetslleksah]

James Kerns - the man with the most tools “wins” - have you watched any of MrPete222 videos?

[@johnmccallum8512]

No craftsman ever has "enough" tools.

[@bobfuller9759]

What about marketing the raw castings? Great video's

[@BobPegram]

That's what I was thinking, perhaps you could market them through Richard King. He sold you the larger raw castings, correct?

[@ronaldcrowder404]

I am partial to horizontal because of gear making. I tried to find my other post but no luck was gonna add this to it .

[@josephmagedanz4070]

Can you put your magnetic chuck on the mill table for a job like that?

[@duobob]

Cast iron does not hold as well with magnets when compared with steel.

[@ilovehobbies3782]

I think if one were to mix some fine quartz and epoxy up to fill that hole then run another finish pass after it cured it would be just fine.

[@CalPil0t]

You may see one or two at the Bar Z would be my guess...

[@kerrygleeson4409]

🇦🇺. Thanks for sharing

[@brigidraffertyjeffreys347]

Kerry Glee

[@DreadedOne509]

Could you fill that void with something, or ignore it completely?

[@KandySause]

U should be able to feed that at least twice as fast much smoother finish

[@KandySause]

@ about .100 or .150

[@warrenjones744]

Keith here is a link to a thread I made on Practical Machinist. I bought a flawed Casting from Richard and repaired it with threaded dura bar pins. Much like you would pin a crack in a cylinder head. It works the treat so far. www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machine-reconditioning-scraping-and-inspection/repairing-casting-flaw-straight-edge-my-way-doing-anyway-326602/?highlight=repairing+straight+edge+casting Cheers, Warren

[@dougborrett3566]

RPMs,= Revolutions Per Minutes?

[@CarterCreekFarm]

Don't scrap the one with a void. I will take it and use it.

[@shanek6582]

You should sell those castings

[@TSODInc]

I'll take it?

[@kakongemahamed1198]

All milling machine (horizontal)darter.cutting gear.

[@woozhi9218]

So i can use endmill on it

[@strokedriedrie]

Why waste the one with the void, you can braze it, would be a nice new video!

[@carlthor91]

I don't know if anyone else mentioned it. For the inclusion, epoxy fill, scrape, no need to throw out. Such waste otherwise. Cheers

[@BustedWalletGarage]

I made all my straight-ish edges out of plywood

[@jusb1066]

hehe good enough!

[@Sizukun1]

Using your precision laser guided eye-balls?

[@R.E.HILL_]

I use ice...

[@billcodey1430]

You freeze the water?

[@alexreeve]

fair

[@briancox2721]

Cut that 9" straight edge with a void in half and make a 4.5" one.