Facing Spiritual Abuse in YWAM

[@samroncancio1006]

Peter was one of my favorite teachers in Mercy Ships. I believe we need a new reformation that deals with the problems that well intended theology has caused to true Christian living. It has taken me years of asking why do I believe what I believe and going back to the Bible for answers and realizing that what the Word says truly brings freedom.

[@purplerabbit7190]

My daughter went to y wam. She is still suffering. A very long and complicated story. I didn’t like the group but coming out of a cult I don’t trust any church. Jesus is my authority.

[@lawrenceforrest5308]

A trick: you can watch series on flixzone. Been using them for watching loads of movies recently.

[@conradjohnathan7236]

@Lawrence Forrest Yea, have been watching on Flixzone} for since november myself :D

[@docbarm3338]

Poor Peter… it sounds like he sees the real errors and bad/false teachings of YWAM and has many legitimate experiences and true lessons, but sadly he himself sounds like he leans now toward Richard Rohr type bad teachings and there is quite a lot of concern in his current beliefs as well. He is spot on about spiritual abuse and manipulation in the culture of ihopkc/YWAM/Bethel/Hillsong… He sees and understands some dangers but has entered a different beliefs system now, be it Universalism, Perrenialism, Panenthism… or whatever. Sounds like he now doesn’t believe the balanced biblical teaching that Scripture does teach sin but also forgiveness. God bless.

[@rebeccanewell3449]

Yeah, I hope more people see your comment. So many are falling into those groups and are blind to what is going on. That’s why I love @theremnantradio where they are theologically sound and can compare people’s teachings to the actual word of God.

[@kobalt9853]

The first "step" in Intercession (as we have learned it since 1990 - maybe things have changed?) is focusing on God, thanking him, praising him for who he is. Conviction and Repentance/Cleansing is second. :)

[@NyaNyaJP]

Yes, a lot of these issues are the same or worse than what it is the world. I completely agree with Peter Helms and his mature and balanced understanding. We need to be careful about controlling leadership and really build a relationship with God. I found my way to freedom at a Christian University that really helped me learn to understand scripture and learn how to think in a more Godly way. God speaks through his word. The Foundations are right there in the world and everything builds on those foundations. Man made ideas always fall short.

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Tokyo Mommy, I agree. God's creation, the world, is the first Bible :) and then he also put his spirit inside of humans! While we probably need help accessing the difference between thoughts rooted in fear vs rooted in love, we cannot get there with toxic people around us who claim to represent love. I think that is what Jesus meant with the millstone reference. If we bind burdens on other people, it'd literally be better if we weren't existing. We live a miserable life and lead others into misery also.

[@damiantrollope211]

"God told me so", so many have gotten away with so much by using that abusive phrase. I was once accused of being demonicly possessed by a love interest, her church told her to "avoid the appearence of evil' and that being seen with a guy would appear evil and cost an onlooker their faith. My resistance to such teachings brought about chaos. An elder instructed us to go home and read scripure again and again untill God told us , through a passage, that we are meant to marry. When we both privately found verse, we would have to reveal it to Him. If our verses somehow mix and match, then we must get married the next. If not, then I should seize communication with her. They also taught us that speaking tongues is a sign of being saved and having Ruach. Eventually she accused me of not being in right standing with God, that she saw a demon manifest in my one night. That God showed her my heart. Me in my 21 year old wisdome believed her, when I went back to her home days later...she and her sisters prayed me away in tongues asif I was satanic. Later, that same evening, she denied all of that. The church made us vow never to communicate again and the next day I learned that members in that church had mistaken me for someone completely different all this time. Another dude. It explained much. They werent sorry. They're picture of God was rotten. And so they become the images of a rotten god. Some of them believed that God had no emotion(due to St Aquinas) and so they were ultimately apathetic. The way you view God is fundamentally the most important thing in your life. Many dont believe that the fullness of God was pleased to dwell within Christ. That He is the respresentation of Abba's likeness. That if you have seen Jesus. Then you have seen Abba. That He is the very radiance of God's glory. And that God is love and the cross we know what love is by looking at the cross: selfsacrificial, radically forgiving, co-suffering and unbrakable commitment. Stumbling across Greg Boyd, Brad Jersak, Peter Hiett, William P Young, Baxter Kruger, N T Wright, Tim Mackie, C S Lewis and even Robert Barron & Timothy Keller really helped me gain the revelation that there is nothing unchristlike about God. And that if it doesnt look like Jesus, uts not the truth. Anti christ is christianity without the Christ. Right now I actually enjoy and marvel at Jesus. I have much still to learn. But He is breathtaking and enjoyable. I can literally look at Him now and be baffled by the weight of sheer unmatchable kindness and compassion and drive. Im no universalist or new calvinist or open theist, but I recommend those list of teachers. Churchianity is failing the Kingdom

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Thanks for sharing all this, Damian! I am so sorry you went through so much spiritual abuse and toxic theology. I can absolutely emphasize and whole heartedly agree with what you said about the most important part is thinking about what you think God is actually like. On my channel you will find interviews with some of the authors you've mentioned :) I have resonated with their perspectives also. If it's not truly good news, it's not God.

[@debradurrant6153]

I absolutely know that YWAM teach about dying to self and giving up your rights. I was in YWAM for 4 years. I was totally controlled and isolated from my church, friends and family. That Theology has been really bad for me. I am only realising that years later after escaping an abusive marriage... I took all of that bad Theology into my marriage, so i allowed myself to be treated badly. My belief was that I had to give up my rights, to the point of allowing someone to abuse me. Foundations of bad Theology from YWAM.

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Debbie Lu, I am so sorry that you were abused in YWAM and then didn't recognize the abuse in your marriage. Yes, our theology and our life choices and behavior go hand in hand. I have a lot of more resources on my channel for victims of spiritual abuse, I hope you find more healing.

[@shirahsheartbeats]

thank you so so much for your discussion. peter transmits so much warmth and i am so grateful to see people of faith that are older into the faith in this state. i don't feel he would defend his faith with rage if would be questioned (which i assume he is sometimes), but with a gentle attitude. this restores the hope in me..that we can grow like this. i am only at the half of the video, but i paused for expressing my gratitude toward you 2.

[@abhirai6124]

I have served in Ywam for many years now, but thanks for your relflections and observations.

[@bobbyfields7359]

This was so great!!! Peter was wonderful! First time hearing and meeting him for me!

[@cmartin999]

37:50 "We were never mean't to work for God.. ever" How could you possibly get that from scripture? Paul talks constantly about being a slave to Christ, Jesus said we need to pick up our cross and follow him, Paul was constantly going to synogoges and markets to discuss Christ with people. Obviously there is an aspect of people seeing Christ in us and asking about the hope that is in us, that is part of the message but it is not the full message. How could you possible interpret "Go and make disciples" as sit back, relax, enjoy life because that is what God made you for, and if people so happen to ask you 'why are you so chill' then you tell them 'Jesus changed my life, I didn't used to be this chill'. Do you honestly believe the early church spread the message by just 'being'. As I said before, that is an aspect of how we show Christ to people but that is not the whole story. If you love Jesus so much and he actually changed your life, you should naturally be mentioning him to people. True faith produces works and if it doesn't then it isn't true faith. There are obviously those without faith who are doing works, but there are not those who have true faith in Christ who are not doing works.

[@edwardking1312]

Peter Helms was our favorite YWAM speaker!!!!! Love this video!!

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

thanks, I agree, he is one special human!

[@shirahsheartbeats]

becoming human..amen. Jesus is the first human. it touched me. i might have a revelation now. or restrenghtening of what i know to be true in my heart. He is the Adam that did not fall..the perfect(ed) human. the resurrected Jesus in all his glory and light and love..that's who WE are also. that's who we become through this journey..and we are not alone. guidance and assistance is given to each one of us.."and when we will see him..we will be like him"

[@colorizedenhanced-timeless2409]

salutations, Truth In Motion Studios. this is actually lovely video. thank. :)

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Glad you liked it!!

[@loretomazzola403]

Love Peter. My wife and I worked on Mercy ships and ywam was affiliated with them at the time. We always enjoyed Peter and his "out of the box". Always a breath of fresh air. I remember not long ago seeing on my wifes Facebook, a quote form Richard Rohr that he posted and I thought ah!!.....he's on the same page as we are now also :) Enjoyed seeing his face again!

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Yes, ah, feels good to be on the same peace filled page :D

[@rebeccanewell3449]

What was the post? Richard Rohr is a heretic

[@loretomazzola403]

@@rebeccanewell3449 Not sure what you mean?

[@petermckenzie2166]

48:00 "There will be a day when everyone will realize that everyone is in Christ". Paul didn't believe this. In Romans 16:7 it says: "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my relatives who were in prison with me; they are prominent among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was". Paul believed that there was a time when he was NOT in Christ.

[@scottboxrud6785]

That’s exactly what I was questioning! Do you believe a person needs to be born again?

[@petermckenzie2166]

@@scottboxrud6785 Absolutely!

[@shirahsheartbeats]

this year i had a revelation of the answer to my long painful question: "where was Christ when I was in pain in my childhood? ". IN ME. finally, i understand he was never away from me, he was in me. but i was not aware..and i lived in insanity produced by painful trauma. then Christ revealed himself to me and i became aware of the message of love that transformed and keeps transforming me. so, yes..there was a time i was not in Christ ( not beliving, not receiving love, not being aware) but there was not a single day of my life that Christ was not in me. or in each one of us. that's my understanding, but of course, all of us have different perspectives and experiences..

[@57andstillkicking]

Jesus comes to live within us when we get born again.

[@llewellynGS1]

This is 2022 now, so I hope you will still see this comment. I began watching this as I was in YWAM about 25 years ago, and agree that there were a lot of problems with YWAM re lack of biblical teaching, and gnostic heresy regarding "hearing from God" amongst other things. I don't deny however their desire to reach people for God. However I was tracking with this video OK (I met Floyd McClung also at one time) until you started to talk about sin, and how its talked about too much, and that man is basically 'good'. I agree based on my time in YWAM that generally they focus too much on 'getting all your sin dealt with' before God can use you'; and this is also not biblical. But to say that man is basically good is the pelagian heresy of the 1st century re-visited. Have you not read Romans 3, "None is righteous, no not one" - even Jesus said "none is good, except God alone". If man is basically good, there was no need for Christ to die on our behalf. "The heart is desperately wicked above all things" Jer 17:9. There more I understand the depth of my sinful state, the more free I feel to rely totally on Him. O he is good! Also, you deny the great commission and make it about us just "being our true selves". Jesus said in Matt 28 we should "make disciples of all nations, and teach them to obverse all I have commanded" - all that he commanded is found in the rest of the NT - as the apostles wrote down. Being a Christian involves recognising our utter helplessness before an infinitely Holy God and the fact that we are lost and damned without his help, then repenting of our rebellion and trusting His all encompassing grace and forgiveness through the giving of His Son Jesus on the cross on our behalf, then living each day in the light of this. This is the only way to "be our true selves" and denying our total depravity and saying its just a matter of us 'being our true selves' is only a satanic heresy of denying the truth.

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Thanks for taking the time to comment, Glen! May God bless you and keep you!

[@Jiidwag]

Bethel, Hillsongs, Elevation, and all these mega hipster hype churches are all toxic fake-loving environments

[@cmartin999]

27:39 I'm not sure how the idea of total depravity leads to abuse in leadership moreso than other theologies. There are plenty of examples, in fact probably more examples, of abusive leadership from those who disagree with total depravity than from those who agree with it. 28:12 No... total depravity does not mean you have 'differences between those who are really bad and those who are spiritual'. It sounds like he's talking about people who believe in some sort of perfection in regeration where as soon as you are saved or closer to God you are sinless while everyone else in frot with sin... that is NOT total depravity. If someone who claims to believe in total depravity doesn't apply that depravity to themselves, they don't understand the doctrine. Total depravity means we are all on the same page. Believing that there are 'good people and bad people' leads to what he is describing. Believing everyone, including oneself, is bad to the core does not.

[@2truthmatters277]

I was in YWAM for 5 1/2 years and understand what Peter was talking about in a different way. I don't think he was talking about total depravity at all. June 1976 to March 1979 I was at the Hurlach Castle in Bavaria. Peter seems familiar to me, but that was a long time ago, so I could be wrong. The Moral Government Theology (MGT) taught in YWAM absolutely denies total depravity. I think what Peter is talking about has more to do with a hierarchy of accomplishment in spirituality by the exercise of free will and ability (Pelagianism). Your are right when you discern "some sort of perfection." That is the teaching of MGT. Those who have been in YWAM for longer periods of time and don't get out of the box, like Peter did, rise to higher levels of spirituality and, if you will (no pun intended), sinlessness. In that state, they achieve authority over the lesser Christians who display some sort of trouble remaining in their lives. Because in MGT there is no depravity and no sinful nature, problems are believed to be caused by entanglement with spirits. It is a "This Present Darkness" and "spiritual warfare" worldview. This has become a large enterprise that now goes far beyond YWAM. In the liturgy (I am Lutheran), we confess, "I have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what I have done and by what I have left undone." That statement fits with total depravity because in that boat we are all equally sinners, recognizing our sinfulness, and enjoying the grace of God in the reception of the forgiveness of sins. There is no hierarchy of spirituality. We are all equally sinful and equally in need of God's grace and forgiveness.

[@jstmythots]

Mankind is fallen, but that's why Jesus came. After you repent and choose to believe in Jesus you are free. Then we can walk with him in that freedom and joy. Its simple.

[@crtuakoi]

Warm regards from Australia 🌏🦘🙂❤️🙏🏽🥰🥳🙌

[@katieford8176]

I was at the ywam base in Elm springs Arkansas

[@Longe]

Good video except Peter suggesting a base in the RSA is "safe". If he has only been there as a speaker, he would not know the reality of the base as people treat visiting speakers much different than others, long term or in a school on a base.

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

I agree with both your statements! thanks for taking the time to comment!

[@heatherm3551]

I'm only half way through, but I have something to say... I do not condone coerced confessions or anybody using their leadership position as an opportunity to spiritually abuse other believers, but how these abusers choose to manipulate does not change objective truth. If mankind is inherently good, then why are we in need of a savior? I'm asking this assuming one of you may still identify as a Christian...

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Heather M, thanks for your message and sorry for the late response, one swamped mama here! Yes, I still identify as Christian and yes I believe humankind needs a savior but our idea of what we need saving from (or should I say "who we need saving from") differs. That doesn't make me not a Christian, just a Christian who follows a different historical understanding of what Jesus did on the cross.

[@jaredbradley6181]

I was abused spiritually and emotionally on my DTS at YWAM London in 2012.

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

I’m sorry to hear that, Jared 😔

[@jaredbradley6181]

@@TruthInMotionStudios also a fellow student was verbally and physically assaulted on the football field and the leader was not held accountable.

[@debradurrant6153]

A bit of 'throwing out the baby with the bath water'! Jesus did say GO make disciples. THis mans belief that there is no place for 'going' is a kicking off reaction to the extreme of the YWAM life. A lot of what he says about YWAM is true. But also God did not say "Sit and do nothing". Yes talk about God's love, but why is he not talking about the necessity for Salvation through Jesus. Very dangerous not standing on what scripture says. Because then the temptation is to go to an opposite extreme of the organisation that has hurt you. We all need to find out what God's truth is, by reading His word and listening to The Holy Spirit.

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Debbie Lu, I get your perspective but neither Peter nor I share your understanding of the gospel. It's alright, please don't think we pulled it out of thin air or that it is a reactionary move. Our perspective could be called "hopeful universalism based on the trinity" and that view is as old as Christianity. It's really hard to control people if you can't scare them with an angry God- maybe that's why it is (in evangelical circles at least) considered a minority view. I have a degree in theology and am not taking what I am sharing on my channel lightly. I hope you can at least allow me to claim that my understanding of the Bible and yours (though differing) are equally valid. It all stems from a radically different understanding of what God is like and how he is saving the world, who needed the death of Christ and what Christ was talking about when he said that his kingdom is not of this world. A lot to talk about! If this interests you and you recognize the connection that theology and mental health have, I want to encourage you to check out other interviews on my channel. Maybe the one on "church culture" would be interesting for you or any other, really :) Blessings to you, Debbie Lu!

[@scottboxrud6785]

I agree

[@edwardking1312]

Have mercy on YWAM and all churches. If you examine any denomination you will find flaws. There is a lot of misunderstandings about the Old Covenant/ New Covenant. It is in most denominations. 1. Christians are not sinners anymore Romans 6:6, Ezekiel 36:26 - They have a new nature - they still sin but are not sinners but saints. 2. Jesus came back in 70ad, that was the Second Coming.

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

What if mercy means to also speak the unspeakable? Only truth sets us free and the truth is that under ywam's worldwide umbrella people were both blessed and also damaged. My channel is about spiritual abuse, hence we talk about how to recover from the damage. To me, this is first of all an act of mercy to the many victims who walked blindly into often severe abuse that left them without help. Being able to speak about your trauma and have words for the complex confusion is an important step on the journey to healing.

[@mattmercer7607]

Jesus didn't have mercy on abusers when he said “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned." How's that for mercy when causing injury to those who formerly believed.

[@xkullkid]

I have recordings voice and video

[@ivanasimic2072]

Did they suing you for calling them out by name? I am sued in Croatia. Let us destroy and expose these monsters.

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Ivana, I am educating on what spiritual abuse is and not interested in taking down monsters. They have a way of doing that to themselves. I am sorry you are in a very difficult spot.

[@daraebjerre1639]

This is complete heresy.

[@cmartin999]

47:50 Yeah, for the first while I was just thinking this is bad teaching... then he got to the part about everyone being in Jesus and Jesus being in everyone... I guess he's a universalist? That would explain a lot about his theology...

[@NoyzRose492]

@@cmartin999 he is a universalist, I think , yes

[@loretomazzola403]

It's in scripture whether you like to accept it or not.....all have the fingerprint of Christ in them....we just don't know it.

[@daraebjerre1639]

@@loretomazzola403 Would you mind sharing where in scripture this is found, I would truly appreciate it.

[@loretomazzola403]

No forgive me, I'm afraid I don't play that scripture fighting game anymore......but if you search for it on your own, you will find it :)

[@edwardking1312]

As with most Christian churches: sin consciousness. YWAM has like the whole body of Christians Churches a lot of mixture. Have grace on them and all churches. YWAM is always changing for the better. The church in general in the 1970’s - 2000 was very much full of mixture.

[@Shylows]

Omgggg please get on with the stoty...

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

?

[@gls3894]

Christine I don't know about spiritual abuse but I do know about false teaching, tread lightly.

[@TruthInMotionStudios]

Tread lightly? LOL... Do you mean "teachings you don't agree with?"

[@gls3894]

@@TruthInMotionStudios No, I mean teachings these folks are saying. At 36:24 God became human and never ceased to be human is not a biblical teaching. Its actually quit demonic Jesus was born human, crucified and resurrected and seated at the right hand of God. He ceased being human , Jesus never ceased being God.