Fact-Checking the Heroscape Age of Annihilation Relaunch

[@5hogg23]

They're charging for pre-orders now, not when they ship like normal pre-orders. That pretty much makes it a backdoor Haslab, they're going to have everyone's money for five months while they make and ship the product. There's just no minimum or bonus tiers. They're also going to hit us up for more money in advance when Wave two goes up for pre-order this summer, before they have even shipped the first sets. I also think Renegade misunderstands the product and market. And with these prices I am not going to be able to continue my previous buying habits of multiples of every set. I hope they handle commons gracefully and don't pack them in with uniques or terrain we don't need large quantities of. One of the reasons it costs so much is because the minis are so detailed they required a lot of special paint apps. I want simpler minis like the original ones, that are cheaper to sculpt and paint. That would help make prices more reasonable. Nobody asked for extra detailed sculpts. Why haven't the split up the terrain and minis? Other gamers that just want the terrain are having to pay too much because they don't want all the stuff for playing HS. and veteran HS players just want the minis, not all the grass and sand tiles they're packaged with. They're missing the mark for both markets. If this fails and Renegade cries sour grapes, they are going to blame the fan community, and that's what I worry about. They know who all the big custom makers are now and can go after them and the heroscapers site, and that would suck.

[@roseheart270]

The painted master set is 55% more. That does not mesh with what was said. I am hardline pre-painted, so that means a battle box for now, and maybe my friend group pools for the master set.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Actually it’s 80% more! Almost double, pretty wild. I think the battle box has been their only good idea so far, since it’s an accessible entry point to the game (you know, like a master set used to be)

[@Sunderved23]

@@ryguyplaysgamesgood thing the point values and opposing synergies make sense with the included figures in the battle box 😅

[@natethegreat3726]

I just got the painted edition I don’t have time to paint minis rather just pay 100$ for cool paints jobs

[@ryguyplaysgames]

If that works for you, that’s great!

[@doggindays2631]

Appreciate the breakdown, especially from your insider perspective as a playtester. We all got worried when we saw those leaks, and I was surprised when they released the army cards and they showed them to be largely reused from the Avalon Hill campaign. While that made me feel a bit better, I'm glad you clarified that the leaks were still true or mostly true. Helps keep expectations reasonable for how they're going about everything. Cautiously, cautiously optimistic. Cheers!

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Thanks! In my experience Renegade needs to be strong-armed into making any correct decisions, so the community needs to keep the pressure on to make sure the relaunch goes well!

[@GaryLASQ]

8:56 Remember Mythacle? The Mythacle domain "vanished" one month (July 2022) before the announcement, in August of 2022, that Avalon Hill would be reviving Heroscape. Makes me wonder if Hasbro bought Mythacle with plans to use it eventually. (This is just pure speculation on my part.) So maybe this Army Builder by Renegade will look nearly identical to Mythacle's Battleplan by Jay Cain.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

I do! Interesting, I didn't know about that timing. The Battle Network is a big thing I'm keeping an eye out for.

[@RoseKindred]

Random video but this is good news. I never got to play Heroscape before so looking forward to getting it now.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Welcome to the greatest game ever made! Original master sets are still on eBay for a fair price if you want to have a blast :)

[@gevdarg]

Already pre-ordered mine. HasLab should've done this the first time around. My only dilemma is whether to pre-order the unpainted Battle Box from Renegade to get that Drake promo.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

You actually get the promo no matter what you order from Renegade!

[@gevdarg]

@@ryguyplaysgames Thanks! I ended up ordering the Battle Box from them and the other two sets from Hasbro Pulse. I'm much more willing to pay the Vanguard Edition price for this new master set because I'm not a hobbyist. Excited to start collecting and playing HeroScape again!!

[@colbybaker673]

As an avid wargamer $225 for a master set like that is pretty much standard. Plus if you don't like it, buy the cheaper one and paint them yourself. If you thought we were gonna get the amount of tiles and minis we got in the new master set for the same $35-$40 the first master set was back in '04, you're delusional. Everythings more expensive as it was 20 years ago and imo i was expecting any master set at all to be at least $250. I'm happy to see the game come back and to be complaining about arguably decent prices compared to other games on the market seems silly.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

That's great that you love wargames! What a wonderful strawman argument about 2004 prices, too. As I stated repeatedly in the video, Renegade is giving us 1/3 of the unpainted content that Avalon Hill offered for the same price. What sets Heroscape apart is its accessibility and so far only the Battle Box really offers that for casual gamers (yes, those do exist). I personally can't wait to paint those Bok-Bur-Na weapon tubes red!

[@Sunderved23]

@@ryguyplaysgamesyeah, bless Craig Van Ness and all, but BBN should not be drudge colors (or whatever he is now lol)

[@robvanwijngaarden]

40 dollar in 2004 is now 65.31 dollar.

[@1killer911]

If anything. They missed the point going for "premium models with premium paints". I played WH40K back in the day. I play battletech currently. Ive played and painted a ton of models along the way. Heroscape's main draw was not, and is not the quality of the figures or frankly even the quality of the rules. Its draw is that it was a simple, easy to play wargame for cheap. Upping your price and quality just puts them in the same category as 40k, legion, warmachine, more expensive than battletech, etc. and that is not a fight heroscape will win.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Exactly this

[@homebass3426]

I agree that the pre-painted set shouldnt be 55% more than the non-painted set. HOWEVER, from what I understand the reason Hasbro hasnt been releasing Heroscape since 2010 and raking in the big bucks is because the amount of plastic became too costly. Its why Magic Plainswalkers used considerably less plastic. The price points would be outrageous in order to make money on Heroscape... So if we want to keep enjoying Heroscape for the foreseeable furure then we have to adjust our expectations and expect that it will be very costly to continue playing and to introduce Heroscape to a new generation. Unfortunately this isnt the early 00s... we are stuck with massive inflation and the cost of everything has skyrocketed in the past 14-20 years.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

The appeal of Heroscape is its accessibility. A $225 painted master set is not accessible to most people not in the hobby. And we’ll end up paying 3x for unpainted AoA compared to what Avalon Hill wanted to give us, so the price of materials is not an excuse. The battle box is the only thing saving this relaunch

[@homebass3426]

@@ryguyplaysgames According to what I have read. The 2022 campaign from Avalon Hill that went through Hasboro's own version of kickstarter "Haslabs" had only 1 buy-in option at $250 I just bought a board game the other day for $80 after taxes and it is almost completely cardboard save a few wooden tokens. Most board games are getting Deluxe editions on kickstarter that cost anywhere from 100-200 dollars and they use half the amount of materials that are coming in the Heroscape Master Set, so I vehemently disagree with you sir. Keep in mind that the last time Heroscape was made commercially a Big Mac meal cost 300% less than it does now. The cost of everything has skyrocketed since then so expecting a master set for $60 just isn't feasible anymore. It sucks that it costs that much but I don't think we would get new Heroscape sets (with enough terrain so newbies don't have to go online and buy 20 year old plastic pieces) unless you're willing to pay for it. Had they cheaped out and changed the terrain to a book or something (like Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion) people would be bitching about that.

[@TheRabbisHeartbeat]

I'd argue it absolutely is. Avalon Hill royally ****ed everything up along with Hasbro in their terrible mishandled "relaunch". Keep in mind many players like me required painted mini's. Period, end of story. Renegade offered both. Many people don't have time nor energy to spend hours and hours painting. That's cool if you do, but I can assure you my few friends/wife who play this game do not. @@ryguyplaysgames

[@Grimmlocked]

heroscape is the same price it was. Americans are just poorer@@ryguyplaysgames

[@Garenex]

Itll be interesting to see how many regional championships there'll be. Also, wondering if Perkins will get credited, or be in on the website design, since they are basically just doing everything that his site already has.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

If they wanted to save themselves some time they could just buy the site and bring him on board. Give it a facelift to match the aesthetics and you’re good to go

[@Garenex]

@@ryguyplaysgames right? It does seems like that would make the most sense.

[@channelsofash]

I thought hey Heroscape is back so I will not have to add to my pile of shame. Looking at the price points I guess it's adding to my pile of shame.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Haha the paint jobs pile up. On the bright side, you don't have to paint all 70 minis at once this time around!

[@gevdarg]

I hope they learn from their mistakes in the past. It's my understanding that MB/Hasbro/Whoever kept shipping out way too many unique figures instead of squad figures which people used to build their armies. Also, focus on getting terrain packs out, too!

[@midnight5895]

Anyone from germany still remembering this gem?

[@johnhartsock5352]

Interesting to get a bit more of scoop on what happened with the playtesting. It is disappointing that basically all the concerns raised when they introduced the team and it seemed to include nobody who had been involved with Heroscape or the community previously ended up being realized. I am glad to be getting something, but my level of excitement has reduced dramatically from where it was when the relaunch was first announced over a year ago by Avalon Hill. I’d like to see an example of the low quality paint jobs they decided not to go with because to my taste the premium option looks terrible. I would have paid even the $225 price tag if they looked remotely aesthetically pleasing. I didn’t love the AoA content, but I hope we at least get the chance to buy all of it at this point. I hope the game does well, but I’ll be pretty surprised if it catches on enough for them to continue after the AoA stuff is done.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Yep, I wish I'd never playtested for Renegade, it was a very unpleasant experience. And I'm in the same boat with painting, I thought about getting the painted Battle Box but I can't get over the Fia Bonny paint job. I'm happy we at least got the AoA stuff, and the game will continue whether Renegade produces it or not!

[@marcbennett9232]

I have playtested several games from several companies. I have never been let go for stating my opinion on a design, so it makes me sad that Renegade behaves in this way. from a players perspective I quite like many of Renegades designs, granted most are card games. perhaps they need some time to adjust to an actual war game. personally I hope Renegade gets their feet under them and is able to make better designs by the time they finish publishing the Age of Annihilation content. I want this game to continue to grow.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Here's hoping!

[@MaxsonAtTheFort]

As a community we should be happy it’s even coming back in all honesty. Plus let’s keep in mind that bad mouthing Renegade before the first wave even ships doesn’t look well on us as a community, let’s just try and be supportive if possible to at least get a couple waves out of renegade in the future before going full DEFCON 1 and nuking them with hate/criticism. I love the Heroscape community and the c3v customs but let’s at least ease up on our criticism on Renegade so that they can give us some official product and much needed terrain. (Plus you can always buy unpainted which honestly is higher than normal but at the end of the day it’s not as absurd as one thinks seeing as some people buy literally one vehicle model for like 80 dollars on a game like 40k.)

[@ryguyplaysgames]

I can be happy Heroscape is back and also upset at how Renegade treated me. I am allowed to have nuance in my views, and I can support the designs and the game without supporting the company behind them

[@MaxsonAtTheFort]

@@ryguyplaysgames I mean it sounds like a lot of ire was just coming from how they kicked you from play testing, plus you can’t support the game without it somehow being profits for Renegade unless you stick to just pre Renegade Heroscape, even if it was a gift or prize given to you someone still gave Renegade money for said product which counts as a sale regardless of who’s hands it’s in.

[@marvart]

Their charging $100 to paint 20 figs. Based on the first version of HS, you can probably paint them better yourself. I know i can. But, honestly I'd charge more then $100 to paint 20 figs.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Yeah I'd charge more too! Except I'm one guy and not a factory. But I'm sure they've got a plan

[@bravo320zf]

Sadly this price point does match other Miniature games prices. If you compare this to other wargames that is. I think the sad part is that the economy isnt going to allow a low priced entry level war game on the market anymore. I know it isnt what was promised but i kinda expected it. I was so excited when AOTP was released but due to the terrible manufacturing and cost cuts the product was a little lack luster. As a Warhammer player who also is big into the 3D printing hobby i think this game is now marketed to people more like myself and not the normal casual board gamer. Not the worse thing in the world but wargaming is now pretty much locked from the causual low budet consumer which is sad.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

You're not wrong, but "just another war game" loses a lot of the appeal of Heroscape

[@Danivan444]

Could you offer a "how to" paint Heroscape figurines with these upcoming Heroscape sets? I've never painted figurines before and I would love to have a KZbin page available to show me how to paint them.

[@GaryLASQ]

Renegade did say they plan to provide a "painting guide" in the future.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

@RogueScaper I believe is planning to put out painting guides, if he does I'm planning to use those! Go give him a follow, he's an expert

[@Rodfather_Prime]

Paint brushes it is!!! “Skyknight”

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Time to take up the sword (brush)!

[@SapphoAi]

Thanks

[@lucasharder3745]

Hmmm everything is purple - I’m sure it has nothing to do with the lead designer having purple hair.

[@ryguyplaysgames]

You're thinking of the lead developer Lee Houff who is actually super cool and the only Renegade employee I respect. If purple is her favorite color I support it!

[@TheRabbisHeartbeat]

1. I can understand why people feel a bit mislead by the only 15% increase comment from Renegade. Not cool. That said, I expected a master set to be around the 200$ mark anyways, for premium painted minis, so this really shouldn't have been that much of a shock to people. Everything is more expensive in Biden's economy. *shoulder shrug* 2. You come across as a little butthurt in the video. Just being honest. Also the war council is not the be all end of all of designing heroscape. I think they had some great designs, but some were a little over the top I'd argue, and i'm glad Renegade didn't include them personally. 3. People absolutely SHOULD buy as much painted stuff as they can afford, or for pete's sakes the freakin' terrain pack for 50$, unless of course folks DON'T want a return of HeroScape and future waves. I guarantee you if this doesn't sell well, future waves will not be produced. Simple as that. So for all of you who clamored for the return of HeroScape like myself, 225$ isn't that tough of a pill to swallow, especially if that brings about future waves that will be cheaper to buy in the long run. Start saving now, people. :) 4. No i'm not a shill for Renegade. I just wanna see Scape make a triumphant comeback. ;)

[@ryguyplaysgames]

Not sure if I wanted to debunk all these points, but I think it's worth it. 1. People wouldn't be shocked if it was $200. They're shocked because Scott G himself made people believe it would be much left. Overpromised and underdelivered. 2. I'm sure I came across as spiteful (did you miss the part about playtesting). Renegade mismanaged us and treated us poorly, and there's a ton I obviously left out for legal reasons. I agree not everything the War Council did was spectacular, I'm not a big fan of the Dryans. That said, things could have been much worse and you should believe me when I tell you we are very very lucky we got the designs that we did. 3. People should buy as much as they are comfortable with. As I said in another comment, what made Heroscape such a hit was its accessibility, and even for hardcore fans the master set pricepoint is no longer accessible for painted minis (and unpainted are less accessible in a different way). The battlebox has been Renegade's best idea by far for this exact reason. Tbd if it saves the game. 4. I can't wait either! I so badly want Heroscape to succeed, and in order for that to happen Renegade needs to be held accountable for their management and business decisions. Just because "it's back" doesn't mean we can't and should do better. But I'm just celebrating for now. All will fear the duo of Ryguy and EJ!

[@RedWolf34ef]

5:43 This complaint doesnt really seem that valid to me when were talking about Heroscape, at least with the examples you gave. Fia Bonnie is literally sporting the colors of the general who summoned her, like several other Einar Heroes and even Squads have done before, and Bok-Bur-Na is sporting the same color scheme as the Marro Dredges. The most I can give is that they have more saturation, which is personal preference, but they're still grounded and dont reach a level that should be considered "goofy". For the record, Im tackling this part because plenty of other people have discussed the actual topics in this video, and I feel this is an unnecessary jab at some pretty good color palettes. You can definitely do better with your own painting, but the designs are nowhere near shitter tier like what is implied.