Factorio Friday Facts

[@nicholascopsey4807]

Can't wait for Trupen's "Legendary only run".

[@Lodottis]

Walls, pipes, belts etc DO have more health. It says "entities which don't have any bonus APART from the health.."

[@chrislaf89]

But what about *trains*?

[@alessioantinoro5713]

​@@chrislaf89Faster trains? 🤞🏻

[@1dood]

@@alessioantinoro5713 imagine the speed of legendary trains using nuclear fuel

[@nikomallat]

@@alessioantinoro5713 They have confirmed (on reddit, can't find the comment anymore) that there will be no quality trains or quality fuel. Reason for this was that there is no easy way to replace trains like you can replace everything else with upgrade planner

[@AlessandroRodriguez]

@@nikomallat so no "Legendary used up uranium fuel cell"

[@Krydax8]

I imagine they shared this FFF a long time before release because they knew the community would have big feels about it! I am excited, apprehensive, and eager to see where this goes!

[@Xterminator]

Agreed. I'd hope most people like this change, but it's definitely good for them to get feedback from the community early on since it seems like such a big addition to the gameplay

[@FeatherP]

@@Xterminator for now it seems like all they're getting, in terms of feedback, is just a bunch of autistic screeching of people who seem like they didn't read the post all the way through.

[@james79ableify]

​@@Xterminatorhow r we going to balance material if production is random...

[@Willow4526]

​@@FeatherPyou have literally no reason to bring up autistic people especially when your using it in such a derogatory way...

[@FeatherP]

​@@Willow4526 I gree with you I should've worded it differently, but my point still stands, those people didn't even finish reading the post, very few if any of them have had save games long enough for those changes to even remotely make an impact on their games but they're just flaming the devs. Some actually do say specifically what they don't like about the system, but the vast majority is basically like 'game bad, quality break ratio, reeeee'

[@MikeKrasnenkov]

Finally, after all these years… A 32 tile power pole

[@americankid7782]

WOOOO

[@damelux3798]

oh my god.. yes.. it's here. (well nearly)

[@Oralordos]

The reason to go for higher quality intermediates, is because if all of the input to an assembler is of a certain quality, the output will be at least that quality. So setting up a quality increase system for intermediates, where they can be used in many recipes, means you don't have to build quality increase systems for each item you want built. Much simpler mall/hub areas.

[@chrislaf89]

Start from the beginning, and work up, getting max/higher quality at each step is how I see it.

[@nickdumas2495]

Exactly. You can roll 10% tier 2 circuits, and send the 90% T1 off to science production, and save the T2 for guns and suits say. Then your T2 ingredients mean you're guaranteed a T2 suit with a 10% chance of T3. Instead of a mere 10% chance of T2 and 1% chance of T3. Much better odds of a good suit.

[@craidiefin]

Stuff gets complicated if you quality multiple steps over prod moduling it. If you quality two steps and throw out the Q1 stuff back to science after first step: second step is left with 16% of Q2, 7.2% of Q3, 1.2% of Q4 and 0.19% of Q5. Meanwhile prod moduling the first step and doing max quality on the second gets you: 25% Q2, 2.5% Q3, 0.24% Q4 and 0.026% Q5. This is with 100% prod bonus and 248% quality bonus.(T3, Q5 modules on an 4 slot assembler.)

[@walksanator]

They removed that recipe :😢

[@Scarhoof]

I think the reason you would want to spend time farming up the Quality Intermediates would be to focus on production of something specific, like your Armor or the modules that go into it. The Quality of the ingredients seems almost more important to the end product than the modules based on how that recycler factory was setup.

[@ytiq4899]

If you use Epic ingredients you get Epic results. That's why it makes sense to try to update intermediaries, because otherwise getting legendaries is even harder.

[@bobbodaskank]

Another way to say that is in the early game, I won't mind the majority of my factory using 99% standard green circuits, but I absolutely don't want to have to craft hundreds of power armors to get what I want.

[@hilburn-]

Yeah, much cheaper to recycle circuits than power armour mk2. Ideally you want rare green circuits going to red, epic red and green to blue, and then only use legendary intermediates for your armour and equipment

[@schnoig_]

I like the quality feature alot, just feel like they could rename the rarities to maybe something like Flimsy, Polished, Pristine and Factory-Grade or something like that, or just leave it to the icons.

[@Xterminator]

Yeah, the names did seem a bit non-factorio to me. Something like you suggest would be more fitting I think

[@Dani0x1B]

I *REALLY* hope they change the name from gacha rarity to actual quality, something like "good, great, superior, excellent" stuff like that.

[@nyaanon]

same, it feels like they've pulled it out from fortnite or something lol

[@Enrico9431_]

@@nyaanon I can definitely agree with that @DanielEscoz 's sound a lot better/makes more sense, but I think most games use this kind of rarity system hence the reason they did it.

[@fasddfadfgasdgs]

if not there will be a mod for it more then likely

[@Celtic_WarBear]

You know that that Rarity scale doesn't originate from Gacha games right? It comes from RPGs - But I do also agree that having it be the quality grade instead would be better

[@JasminUwU]

Nah, I think it's funnny.

[@keisisqrl]

That recycling-up-to-legendary abomination has real Space Exploration vibes. I can see Earendel’s fingerprints all over this and it’s awesome.

[@kyzlekiko]

route the output into the input, with a recycler added in the middle

[@mrpocock]

It is curse.

[@nicholasspicer5171]

its a type of construction that we would never otherwise get to mess with, and im so excited to play with it. imagine the state of machine godhood you could achieve with quality

[@Jesepy93]

@21:10 From what I can piece together from the example recycle loop, it looks like you need to use the higher quality intermediates to make the higher quality parts. For example, having the quality modules in an assembler making green circuits gives a chance to create a 1 rarity higher output, then after recycling, use those higher quality intermediates to craft the next tier, which in turn gives a chance to increase the quality one more step up. And repeat to increase the quality again. It looks like the three assemblers for green circuits in the recycle loop have a different recipe to make each higher quality from the higher quality ingredients.

[@blacknight6147]

you can get any of the qualities, but they are rarer the higher it is compared to whats being made

[@RocketMan1081]

I love this! What a game changing way to add so much more to the end game! Imagine having automation pushing you to the high tier qualities with the natural horizontal expansion that happens,

[@beewyka819]

Walls do get a health bonus, it says "there are a few entities which don't have any bonus APART from the health"

[@superbnns]

I saw sime people really upset about this when they learned of it, but it basically allows you to set up a kovarex style system for every single item in the game, and i think thats awesome

[@sullenskulls9709]

I think you're misunderstanding the graphic that shows the different quality %age chances. It shows the same level of quality modules on each line, but the quality of the intermediate that is put into it, is what shifts the %age to the right. Each line has 4 normal quality modules, but if you put in:- Normal Iron Plate - 10% Uncommon gears, 1% Rare gears ... Uncommon iron Plate - 10% Rare gears, 1% Epic gears ... Rare Iron Plate - 10% Epic gears, 1% Legendary Epic Iron Plate - 10% Legendary With presumably the remaining 90% giving you the quality tier of the intermediate automatically. So, early on, when you have few quality modules, you are going to want them in end product assemblers. But, as you progress, and have more, you are going to get better results from having the quality modules in the intermediates even more than the end products. Legendary iron plates will always make legendary gears, to use the same example as above, but is that your best use of legendary iron plates early on (or at all). At least, that's how I'm understanding it.

[@vedritmathias9193]

You're right in the first half, but you're probably going to always want to have the quality modules on the supply end of the factory - miners, smelters, first-line assemblers. As the base components go through the factory, the overall chance of their quality improving goes up, until at the end you have the highest chance for legendary. A 10% chance to improve quality is not much, so better to apply it as early and as much as possible.

[@MrrGNB]

@@vedritmathias9193 Well assuming once you managed to get all of your base components up to legendary you wont need any quality modules in the rest of the chain as they will always be legendary, i also dont think you would want to have quality modules throughout your chain, as that is just going to break everything, i assume. Like for example you produced 1 uncommon iron plate and 1 normal plate now the insert puts the uncommon plate into the gear assembler and locks up because different quality items dont stack and the iron plate slot is filled with an uncommon plate, and you only have a normal plate available

[@sullenskulls9709]

@@MrrGNB Yeah. You're probably going to eventually want several dedicated "upgrade" factories. FIlters, loops, recyclers and upgraders. Definitely a way to add a new layer into the complexity of builds, without directly adding complexity. I initially like the concept, but can definitely see how it could potentially be implemented either poorly or well. Looking forward to it.

[@RandomPlaceHolderName]

@@MrrGNB Crap, hadn't even thought of buildings clogging up because of different qualities. Ah well, requester chests it is then.

[@amegaplay3044]

Omg, this is so insane!!! I literally can't wait anymore to see this expansion. And this is a really big _vertical_ extension of the game! It add so many new logistic challenges without really adding a lot of horizontal stuff)

[@asmkalrizion7078]

I think the quality modules increase the *chance* of getting a higher quality product, but that product's quality is probably effected by the quality of the ingredient items so you'd probably be more likely to get a legendary belt using legendary gears than you would be if you just used quality modules to craft legendary belts from normal gears

[@THINKMACHINE]

I can't help but wither inside at the thought of the initial uranium refining grind being rolled out to _literally everything._

[@Xterminator]

True. But it's entirely optional to play with it or not

[@MCRuCr]

I love the concept and cannot wait for all the improved equip and buildings. Lower-energy beacons, longer range turrets, long range radars, 14x14 armors just sound awesome!

[@emarfentemel]

20:37 I had the same question, as I understand it shouldn't matter if you create higher quality ingredients via modules and then use them to create higher quality final products or make them streight away in respect to the amount of resources needed. But when you first create higher quality ingredients you can then choose what to use them for instead of having to make quality production for every single final product.

[@MrDivinity22]

Turrets will have health and range increased, NOT damage. It seems the damage bonus will come from higher quality ammo. Also, walls have more health, you read that aloud :) With all these increases in production, I really hope they will give us higher tier belts in the expansion... having played a few mods this year, it's very annoying when you need to fit 1000 lanes of belts just to get items in and out.

[@churchseraphim1380]

Even 60/s belts would help a lot yeah

[@peterschmidt1900]

IMPORTANT: You (and I) missed, that the recycler uses an autoloader to output!!!

First, lay off the multiple exclamation marks. Second, you're wrong.

[@vincentvoncarnap]

@he is right, and the exclamation marks are justified

[@kajacx]

FFF: "Walls will only have bonus health" Xterminator: "Why don't walls have bonus health?" FFF: "You probably would only put quality modules in the final assembler in early game" Xterminator: "Why would you put quality modules in the intermediary assemblers in the early game?"

[@gogudelagaze1585]

The values boosted by quality have this blue widget next to them, so it's quite easy to tell what is boosted and what is not.

[@hazmodanCola]

It's crazy how we're getting all these FFFs now. I'm hyped every week. Equipment crafting is clearly going to get crazy with this.

[@themopse5515]

Awesome feature. Might inject this straight to my factory when i get hands to it. Now factory will feel like real shit, not just 100 units of same building

[@S_Black]

This sounds like an absolute nightmare for inventory management and designing blueprints. Mixing machines and inserters with different quality levels is a mess. If you have a working design, but change something to another quality level it throws off all the numbers. I'd much rather have new planets with new types of resources and production changes. Instead of quality from epic gear wheels make it quality from titanium gear wheels or whatever.

[@hilburn-]

Eh, inserters aren't a problem outside of train stations, there are very few builds that are inserter limited that would get unbalanced from having one inserter working faster than others But also, it's completely optional - just don't build quality modules if you don't want to mess with it (I probably won't be until solidly mid/late-game) and can start upcycling

[@djsnowpdx]

With intermediates in recipes having different absolute costs, like how the processing units required to make modules are more expensive than the advanced circuits in the same recipes, it’s going to be really intersting to see how the devs decide to reward supplying machines with higher quality intermediates. If they simply check the proportion of ingredients that were a certain quality level, out of the total number of ingredients, then recycling up to higher quality advanced circuits will be more effective for producing higher quality module 3s than higher quality processing units and module 2s. If they use a system where the end product receives no quality chance benefit unless all intermediate products in the assembler are a certain quality (e. g. 14 out of 15 ingredients in a module 3 are legendary but the 15th is common being the same for crafting as if all were common), then this exploit is mitigated and it’s easier to understand the benefits you are getting, but the benefits are overall lower. If the devs took the hardest route and assigned an expense value to recipe inputs so that legendary module 2 inputs had a greater impact on the chance of getting a legendary module 3 than legendary advanced circuit imputs), it would be really mind-bending to decide how to value different inputs, because of productivity increasing over time as players unlock the electromagnetic plant, productivity techs, and better prodmods changing the overall ratios in cost between cheap and expensive inputs. I do not think this post adequately explains how the devs determine this, and I’ll be fascinated to learn more on release. Reply below if this ramble even made sense to you.

[@beewyka819]

You'd put quality modules in intermediates as if you create inserters with all, say, rare intermediates, then you are 100% guaranteed to get AT LEAST a rare level inserter out. Also getting those higher tiers is much more likely. So having quality rare intermediates will give you magnitudes higher chances of getting legendary inserters out. That table on the FFF isn't showing higher quality modules, it's showing the same modules but higher quality intermediates. Using Epic quality iron plates gives a 90% chance of getting epic gears out, and 10% chance of legendary. For this reason I think getting higher quality on your base materials (plates, steel, etc.) is actually the most critical, as it will greatly affect the quality of everything downstream, moreso than quality modules in just the end products would.

[@D4RT-one]

21:31 they put a table higher in the post that implies that if all your intermediates are legendary you will get legendary stuff guaranteed

[@lightneko]

You probably want quality intermediate products to increase the odds of higher level final products.

[@jumpnit3121]

so they added 4 extra tiers of equipment in the most complicated possible way...

[@kiraangle2823]

this makes the game a lot more compelling to me as someone whose been avoiding the game for reasons of simplicity.

[@RandomPlaceHolderName]

*who's

[@Eveseptir]

"I feel like they could have done walls, like give em more health." Boy do I have good news for you.

[@sillymonkey725]

20:20 I think that you could choose to A) make rare quality intermediates to produce rare quality assemblers in the end or B) make "normal" inserters , recycle them, craft them again and have rare inserters in the end. That is if you use quality modules, both in A) and B). If you are using the same grade of qual modules in both cases, then the cost of the rare inserters, in the end, would be the same in both cases. I think the main differences between both ways are these: 1) If there is only one rare quality type of item that you want to produce (rare inserters, for example), then you'll need less quality modules if you use those modules for the end product rather than the intermediates in many cases. There's also the benefit that if you're crafting normal gears the old way, you can prod module that production to cut on costs. While end products (inserters) can't be crafted with prod modules anyway. 2) If you want many types of items of rare quality, like inserters, turrets, walls, assemblers, modules, etc... then you'd probably need less quality modules if you made rare intermediates instead of waiting to recycle and upgrade the end products. But here again, only the intermediates can use prod modules so my guess is that it would be worth to have more quality modules and just focus on the end products quality and prod mod the intermediates. For some items, the difference between A) and B) will be how much of a gamble you're willing to take. Power armor. You don't need 200 legendary power armors. If you beak them down to their most basic components (circuits and such) and start by making legendary versions of all those components, then you can predict you'll have your armor after putting X resources into it, RNG is not a factor. Circuits become modules, modules make the armor. But if you want to gamble, you'll have top grade quality modules in one assembler crafting power armors. If you are lucky, you could get 2 rare power armors out of it real quickly. If you are lucky again, those armors could be recycled, one giving no components, one giving epic components. Craft an armor from those components and you could hit the jackpot, legendary armor. On the other end, you could be unlucky and end up spending 4x the average amount of resources needed. Bottom line, if you want a single item, RNG matters a lot. if you want 150 items, RNG has basically no impact at all.

[@xHKCx]

Can't wait to see Dosh play SE

[@djsnowpdx]

Hey! So I commented on another one of your Friday Facts videos discussing Folgera and the recycler that “obviously, the recycler is unlocked along with quality modules on the first planet” and by that, I of course meant Nauvis, but reading through this one along with you, I want to retract that other comment and apologize. You’re right - it seems the recycler is unlocked on Folgera. I’d bet that epic quality is not unlocked on Folgera then. It’s probably on Volcanus, but it might be on Gleba. I bet the devs want you traversing multiple planets for every unlock in Quality after quality module 2. Also, I suspect from something I inferred from reading this post that the devs aren’t interested in having players grind for higher quality module 1s or module 2s, but I’m not sure they’d prevent those modules from giving benefits - after all, maybe you’ve unlocked the recycler and some level of quality before you unlock Module 3. Come to think of it, I bet that is on Gleba, with Epic quality on Volcanus, but it could just as easily be the reverse. Also, they’d want you fighting an enemy to motivate you to get higher quality weaponry, so putting the recycler on Folgera, with no other quality techs, makes even more sense.

[@mrpocock]

You want higher quality intermediates because they set the minimum quality of the output. If you had legendary intermediates then all things made with those are legendary.

[@nyaanon]

Really excited for this! One thing that is slightly weird though is that we now have 3 assembling machines... which can have 5 variant? umm that is going to be confusing.

[@Nitrognhorse]

Yep, if they add this the bloat is gonna be horrible. 15 speeds of belt...

[@Xterminator]

It will be confusing a bit. But I imagine a lot of it can be ignored. Like, I imagine that it may not really make sense to build higher quality assembler 1s before moving to assembler 2s, and then to assembler 3s since the cost seems so high. I think you probably can mostly ignore the higher qualities of the first tiers of machines and just start focusing on quality once you get to the last tier (assembler 3, steel/electric furnaces etc)

[@Ashebrethafe]

@@Nitrognhorse There will still be only three belt speeds: "All higher quality entities have more health... There are a few entities which don't have [any other bonus], which is *belts,* pipes, rails, chests, combinators, walls, and lamps."

[@Nitrognhorse]

@@Ashebrethafe Thank you, I missed that detail.

[@maxvoss9070]

im pretty sure theyll be like productivity modules, not allowed in beacons, and you can only put them in assemblers creating intermediate parts, meaning all (or at least some) of the intermediate ingredients need to be a certain level before the item actuallly levels up

[@sanderbos4243]

31:49 I'm thinking waaaaay more than double, since the 40% productivity max -> 100% productivity max mentioned at 7:22 from just the productivity 3 modules alone (they teased at 18:37 that there'll be even more ways to get productivity!!) essentially multiplies how many science you get by 2 *for every intermediate item step*. I'm thinking like 5 to 10x the science per minute for the most expensive science packs. :D

[@filimental]

I like the concept of increasing quality, but I really don’t enjoy the naming scheme, it feels too much like MMO naming conventions. Literally, all I would like them to change is how they name them. for example, “Electric Mining Drill (Quality 5)” or just “Q5” the color scheme can stay, but I really don’t want to feel like I’m playing Destiny 2. Other than that, it sounds like a great change!

[@peterschmidt1900]

This FFF is such a burn for Nilaus complains about "there is only predictable stuff in the expansion !11". It was kinda predictable they would not announce all the unpredictable stuff in the first expansion FFF.

[@arthurmoore9488]

As someone who has had to deal with merging massive changes like that, I feel this pain in my very soul. Merging like that can end up meaning the "last" part is re-writing everything you've done slightly differently. That's probably a month's worth of work packed into that one paragraph!

[@bobbybobman3073]

Well I've done some napkin math, if you legendary everything, power armour 2 would be 14x14 grid, it implies reactors would make, 750kw times 2.5 for legendary, if you got this with best exoskeletons it would imply the exos boost speed by 75%, and if they still consume only 200kw each then you can use 19 legs (with extremely little help from some buffer batteries) implying 15.25x normal walking speed. Normal walking is 32 km/h, so 488 km/h is a reasonable guess at walking speed. If the refined concrete boosts speed by 50% x 2.5, means running on refined concrete could mean 1098 km/h ... another conservative version of this is assume the power consumption of the legs increase at the speed increases, then 4 reactors and 13 exos is a reasonable build meaning 344km/h base walking speed. A standard vanilla train tops out at about 300 km/h. 1100 km/h seems a bit uncontrollable to me. And frankly 300+ is going to be rough, but good for long hauls. Bad for precise movements. Also side note, I'm nearly certain the game will have massive glitching issues if you are running at 3-4 times the top speed of a train.

[@Xterminator]

I feel like they wont allow it to get to quite that extreme level. Maybe higher tier exoskeletons don't scale as high or something because as you said it would get quite out of control and glitchy

[@darkmoon556]

Max hard coded speed is 7386.3Km/h, after that stuff gets invisible

[@kristianhiorth9236]

20:55 If I understand this correctly the chance of getting legendary goes way up if the pre requisites material is also legendary. May even be mandatory to have better then normal to get legendary

[@ingiford175]

Two things. The factory must grow.. and Take our money....

[@wezzelinator]

Don't know how to feel about this. I said to myself aloud: "Off season April Fools?" It's probably fine, will need to play with it before I can say if it's cool or not. Apart from that I do hope the quality indicators are dev graphics because yikes I do not like them!

[@jdwoods2008]

a thought about your section on why to add quality earlier in the chain... sometimes with mods, you get two recipes for an item that are essentially equal but, for example, making a mk3 item can either take a mk2 item as part of the inputs, or it can take all the inputs for that mk2 module, plus some additional to make the mk3, but it's still the same amount of mid-level resources. I'm guessing that having high quality mid-level items will reduce recipe costs, or that the quality modules will pass forward, or some similar mechanic to make it be the same resources in the highest level products regardless of which path you take to get there. Rewarding the people that want to play slow and max everything along the way, and those who build to the end and then backfill upgrades.

[@papahemmy8587]

I'm looking forward to this new mechanic. I love how it's something new and different. It's not just a matter of "more intermediates = more gameplay". I honestly do not think that it being based on chance is as big of a deal as some people are claiming. Especially not in a game like factorio, where you are making hundreds of thousands if not millions of parts. At the scales people play the game at normally, the difference caused by chance would be less than detecable. Roll a die 12 times, and it's unlikly you'll get every face two times. Roll a die 12 million times, and the difference between the number of times you get each face could be considered a rounding error. It only really effects things you make little of like equipment (as stated in the fff itself). There is also the fact that (from my understanding) this only effects the production of buildings and modules, not science packs. So only the rate at which you build factories is truly affected. And I doubt many players are planning there factories to the point were they are making builds at the same rate in which they build. It's often the case were people over produce buildings anyway. So if after 3 hours, there are 50 less legendary inserters than expected, I doubt you'd even notice.

[@rolletroll2338]

Yeah, also, there was already a "Random" gameplay with U235 that has only .3% chance to be made, that never bothered anyone before. As you said, when millions of part are made, this is not random but just statistical.

[@darkmoon556]

and it kinda adds to realism, since when CPUs are made, they aren't all equal, that's why lower end CPUs have some cores disabled

[@ThatOliveMrT]

You'd think belt speed would apply but I suppose the bulk inserters kinda cover that. You'll already get faster bulk stacks made so i guess that translates to belt upgrades in a way

[@corybader1237]

no comments about how the recycler spits items out directly onto the belt! no inserters needed for taking out! wonder if this will apply to other things. also curious if you can make higher quality science packs?

[@Xterminator]

I didn't even notice this, I was so confused on the the stuff. Good catch!

[@Soul-Burn]

Not only it spits it on the belt, in the big recycling setup, the recycler is *FLIPPED*, not just rotated. This is *huge*.

[@ZevIsert]

​@@Soul-Burninteresting, I wonder if we'll be able to flip trainstops or refineries

[@RandomPlaceHolderName]

@@ZevIsert Flipping refineries and chemical plants would be nice.

[@lucidmoses]

Well that is pretty interesting. A lot better then just being forced to use different surfaces (planets) for no good reason. This sounds like it's going to break the belt optimization where it's ups was improved by packing the belts with the same items. Now it will have to track different items and can't just use the same animation over and over. I remember what the belt optimization was like before hand. I'd hate to have to go back to that but maybe they have something in the pipe to reduce the amount of items that need to be moved.

[@epicsmashman6806]

Quality will basically only be used in the mall, since it has no other uses, so there probably won’t be a ups hit

[@ryannixon4138]

Does crafting a wall with tier 4 stone bricks and 100% quality bonus guarantee a tier 5 wall? If so… that is awesome

[@peterschmidt1900]

21:30 The answer is right there on screen: use tier5 cable + tier5 iron = always tier5 greencircuits, WITHOUT any prod modules.

[@peterschmidt1900]

... which means you should use prod modules in that machine!

[@dustsucker4704]

Im hyped for this. I hope the devs make v2 a dlc i normaly hate paying for extra content but in this case i See an exeption because the 20€ i spend for factorio years ago where the best 20€ i ever invested in to gaming and i would like to Support the devs a little more.

[@Xterminator]

I believe at one point they mentioned the expansion would be a $30 DLC. But the general release of it will come with some changes and new content added to the base game even if you don't buy the DLC

[@drakedbz]

If you look at those tooltips, there is a little blue diamond next to the thing that is buffed.

[@MyNameIsSalo]

not sure how i feel about quality but having a recycler is going to be so nice. Have a chest you throw random trash from your inventory in, recycle it, store it and have bots redistribute it as needed. Really cuts down on having 10+ storage chests with random shit in them you'll never use but cbf to get rid of, like stacks upon stacks of basic electric poles or your entire first electric steam engine setup.

[@g1gabyt3]

I'm not 100% convinced I would want this to be in the basegame even as a researchable tech, but as a toggleable option it would be nice, since this changes the whole game dynamics from start to finish.

[@GuardianSoulkeeper]

Towards the end of the blog post, he mentions that it won't be necessary to use this feature to complete the game. Advantageous, but not necessary, so you won't need to turn it off. That said, they'll probably allow you to do that anyway because they're awesome like that.

[@g1gabyt3]

​@@GuardianSoulkeeperI just think that in online games esp on public servsrs its harder to control who researches what. I'm aware that the game treats it as an invisible mechanic that you can ignore unless you do the research, but a toggle would be nice to hide that research. Hell since its a such strong deviation from the baseline and vanilla and is not present unless you buy the DLC, I'd even argue to make it off by default like a research queue.

[@roadtrain_]

I'm... unsure how to feel about this... and honestly I think I'll just not touch it. The recycling machine is cool though... WE CAN FINALLY GET RID OF OUR STARTING PISTOL!!!

[@TheBaconMagician]

Recycling is expensive, it seems, but thankfully this is actually a decent use for walls. Stone isn't used for much, it's barely even used in science. I've also felt for a while that walls have too little HP for how much dmg Behemoths do, so having a moderately sized wall-quality factory would be nice.

[@EmilyGamerGirl]

6:25 "Walls have nothing but increased health" "They really could have given walls extra health" lol. (It notes that EVERYTHING gets increased health, and the fancy list was the list of things that get something OTHER than health) 21:44 Well, if you have all legendary green chips, then you can use those to directly make legendary inserters and other things, without needing to spend the extra productivity on the quality modules at that stage. ( 25:36 looks like you came to the same conclusion)

[@Cadspen]

You linked last week's FFF in the description, btw!

[@TheNextDecade244]

I will be completely honest I am not that big on this particular feature. Not really for any objective reasons, but mostly for its feel. I've never been a fan of random chance-based mechanics in Factory games, and overall the quality thing seems a tad... too gamey, I guess? But at the same time, not only is this mechanic essentially optional, I would assume that people will quickly figure out ways to make it different. Perhaps change the random chance mechanics to something more similar to Productivity Modules, where you get an X quality every Y period of time instead of randomly. So ultimately I'm not too bothered. It's not really an "Urgh" for me and more of a "Meh".

[@acoolnameemm]

I remember how controversial this was. I really like how Quality ended up.

[@MoonLiteNite]

@6:10 i am so confused. it says right there, APART FROM HEALTH, a few things don't give blahb blah, walls, blah blah... So the walls will have more health.... at least it seems clear as day to me... maybe i am the crazy one :D

[@Xterminator]

Yeah I just can't read lol

[@ryannixon4138]

Honestly, I think it sounds cool as hell. I understand why it’s controversial, it has that loop box/gacha vibe to it, but in a game like factorio probability becomes a ratio you can plan for. It’s like every item just got kovarex processing, but better!

[@voswouter87]

I'll use the quality to avoid belts. Direct insertion from smelter to factory, to factory, with everything of proper quality it'll work smoothly all in a single chain.

[@mx2000]

Welcome to Gachatorio! Honestly, more than the randomness I really hate the clutter that this adds. An extra icon on every single thing in the game, extra conditions on every filter? This sounds absolutely not fun.

[@Bobucles]

I wonder if the planets will feature rare ore spots.

[@Sebastian----]

@Xterminator I think you missed, the new quality-recepts ... Under "The actual cost" the assemblers are set to differnt quality, and those need the ingredients in a same quality level (or atleast it seem so, maybe dropchance will be reduced with low quality ingredients !?) The quality of the product or drop chance depends on ... * type of the module, * quality of module * quality of ingredients, * quality-recepts in the assembler I am really looking for the expansion.

[@jdwoods2008]

a thought about your section on potential 100% productivity... it says 'in an assembly machine 3'. It's possible the bonus might not be as high in the rocket silo as it is in the assembly machine 3. I do like the idea of quality levels though, especially in those items, like the silo that don't have levels now.

[@Maadhawk]

I like how Blizzard has pretty cemented in the minds of everyone: Green = uncommon, Blue = rare, Purple = epic, Orange = Legendary

[@Akirasip]

This quality stuff really feels like it should be part of a separate mod, not be included in the base game (expansion or not). Kind of does not feel like it belongs in factorio, does not gel well with theme of industry. It remind me more of gambling, rather than anything else. I certainly prefer how Dyson Sphere Program has handled this issue, where with sprayers there is no chance involved with boosting items and production. A guaranteed upgrade which you need to work for versus what is essentially a slot machine with upgradeable odds.

[@acenovaYT]

Endgame you can basically feed your bad iron and copper into something that has multiple steps to use production bonuses then recycle it for higher quallity iron. I hope the quallity system will work with mods without large rewrites i want to see how modded will work with these changes

[@HumanShield117]

Also, "why not just but the quality-mods in the end-products?" Because using quality-intermediates increases the chances of higher-quality end-products. If you use nothing but Legendary cables/iron plates, you don't need quality mods in your GC-machine, you'll ALWAYS get Legendary Green Circuits anyway. At least, that's what it looks like to me.

[@TheKianykin]

The quality system is an interesting way to do a tiering system. It wont be optimal rushing to the highest tier.

[@laurentweisgerber3846]

I see a massive issue, if you have a build which is perfectly ballanced, and something is all of a sudden faster, your belts won't keep up and you won't be able to make use of this

[@tempy2440]

It looks like you can specify quality levels in planning, both building and upgrade so I don't think it will be that big of a deal

[@3-valdiondreemur564]

Something that worries me with the quality modules is that I feel like they may entirely supplant product ity modules in most cases... Really hope there's a "sweet spot" of productivity and quality modules that multiply each other to have the highest throughput of high quality items.

[@1110jesse]

6:25 those items stated there, walls, pipes etc, do have increased health. Think you might have misunderstood what was written in there.

[@kristianhiorth9236]

At 25:20 it looks like they are all lvl 3 modules, but the input item change. So its only 0.01 if you use normal items whit a lvl 3 module. As the picture has a purple iron for the 10% chance

[@JavierSalcedoC]

They really added complexity here. Vertically

[@Tennouseijin]

Now it's only a matter of time until mods appear with 'lower than common' quality stuff, say guns/turrets that can misfire, assemblers that can fumble a craft wasting resources, low quality rockets that can result in a failed launch...

[@shadowhenge7118]

Have to be careful with chest limits. One legendary proc can stop up a whole mall assembler if it takes up the one slot you had reserved for it in the output chest. It's not huge but it could mess with ratios on trains if s bunch if onesies and twosies take up inventory in various places.

[@tedg1278]

There was no mention of quality affecting science or labs. It seems obvious that the best way to develop would be toss all normal quality stuff to the science, and save higher quality items for building the factory. Given the probabilities the way to do it is starting right from the furnaces sort things by Q, and use lower Q materials up in longer chain processes. For example Q5 speed 3 modules can still use Q1 iron plates to make Q2 green chips to make Q3 red chips used in Q4 speed 1 modules, making Q5 speed 2 modules, but any blue chips below Q3 would be unusable for the final product. In short the amount of recycling required is much less if you are willing to spend time routing products that did not gain quality back to other processes. The above example would have, at lowest, Q2 blue chip assemblers and the 90% that fail to become Q3+ would have to go towards some other use. It seems like getting most stuff to Q5 wouldn't be too hard, especially if you limit your attempts for Q5 materials to starting from the 10% of stuff that came out of your furnaces at Q2. Assuming a 10% rate at each step, the above example would lead 73% of input Q2 iron plates to output as Q2 blue chips. Based on the numbers they had it seems better to repurpose or recycle rather than gambling on a 2 level quality gain. Of course all of that is a bit of a guess based on the quality of fluids not mattering and being unable to put quality modules into miners. If you can start the quality levels even sooner with the miners then it gets even easier, but still looks like all the intermediates that fail to reach quality specs would be best used by for science production.

[@lucas_up]

RE why would you use quality modules in intermediates: Imagine you have a product with 3 intermediate steps. If you use quality modules in each step, you are adding onto your chances you end up with a higher quality final product. Step 1 creates a lot of uncommon intermediates, step 2 turns those uncommon intermediates into rare intermediates, and step 3 turns rares into epics. Each step rolls the dice and adds chances your final product is higher quality over just using modules in the final step only. Also every step has the chance of upgrading more than one level. Its just more chances of quality level ups in your production line.

[@jonathanlanglois2742]

11:30 I'm actually genuinely surprised that you aren't familiar with that specific set of color coding for quality. The exact same color palet is used by 95% of games that have some kind of quality mechanic. It is extremely recognisable by anyone who has played any game that has that kind of mechanic and basically a standard across the entire gaming industry.

And those games (MMORPGs) also have those names, and the names are *not* well-liked by Factorio players.

[@aartbluestoke3352]

the best outcome is a quality machine processing quality products with productivity modules

[@MrAntiKnowledge]

It just seems weird. Like you can't properly design a blueprint if you don't know if your powerpole will have extra range or not. I like it for stuff you only use very few of, like weapons, so you can craft more than one hoping for a good roll. But for stuff you need in large quantities it seems weird. Also figuring out the ratios of assemblers you need for complex crafting lines is gonna be a nightmare. Well I guess for mid-endgame where you can afford to craft excess it's an interesting mechanic. I really like they decided to make it opt-in. Zero downside for people who dislike the system.

You do know which quality power poles you use. Items of different quality are distinct. So, if you place down a basic power pole ghost, bots will put down a *basic* power pole, no higher ql. And if you put down a -"legendary"- (names will change, either by Wube or through a mod) q3 pole, your bots will only put down a q3 pole, no higher, no lower.

[@CamAlert2]

Regarding belts, I feel like they should make a belt type whose speed can be affected by quality instead of just adding a gorillion new belt types after express belts for faster speeds. So it would start at like 45 items/s throughput same as a blue belt but more expensive but as you grind the belts for higher tiers they can give faster speeds and eventually the cost becomes worth the speed increase as the speedier belt throughput eventually pays itself off fully. Let's say each level would add +15 items/s throughput. Now it sounds high but then you remember that at the end of the game that bot speed can basically be increased as much as you can afford to research it. This means bots can ferry resources extremely quickly even outspeeding express belts at a certain breakpoint. So this is meant to be an alternative to just researching faster bots repeatedly. And bots are already so useful on top of the bot improvements we're already expecting next year. The belt idea would work well with the fact that higher-tier inserters will be able to move faster so would take full advantage of them.

[@darkmoon556]

and even more efficient trains

[@lollertoaster]

I hope those are WiP names because they completely don't fit this game. Rarity makes sense for drops, not something you make yourself. It should be something like: poor quality, standard quality, good quality, exquisite quality and impeccable quality.

[@techwizsmith7963]

We're gonna have to automate *quality control* now. Heck yeah

[@tlefevre2918]

I am not sure is science per minute will really double because space science will be made differently and there will be interplanetary travel so there will just be so much more going on.

[@jeremy4046]

Sorters and filters better have a setting for quality so we can filter out by quality and feed low Q back into recycling.

[@Cruz0e]

@Xterminator solar panel in original produces 60kW , so legendary 150kW pretty good also you didn't read it correctly, walls, pipes, etc. get no bonus APART FROM HEALTH. So pipe doesn't get extra throughput or whatever, but gets extra health

[@dansamarco1610]

I think the reason you'd try to improve the quality of intermediated instead of end products is just probability. If your intermediates AND the machine producing the end product are high quality, it has a higher probability of producing higher quality end products. If you've just got high quality end product producers that themselves are high quality, but the intermediates aren't high quality, the probability of making the highest quality end products is lower (than the former example).

[@ultimocontrole9980]

The chance of getting better quality is based on your components quality

[@Louigy98]

I want to play this now!

[@LordWhirlin]

As long as it's integrated into Bot updating processes with the upgrade blueprints! I'm afraid that replacing stuff with high quality is going to be incredibly tedious or impossible

[@andershelsing4940]

I am not sure about this yet. Feels like it will make it very difficult to get balanced and completely even production when starting to get some random higher quality, sounds like that will cause some items to get stuck at belts at some point. But we will see.

[@explosionspin3422]

you only get higher quality items from machines with quality modules inside, so you have to take clogging up into account before inserting said modules

[@andershelsing4940]

I just saw my post from about a year ago, I have changed my view completely on quality, now it is the single thing from Space Age that I look most forward to play around with 😅