Joseph Smith's Polygamy --Dr. Brian Hales-- Fair Mormon Podcast

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FAIR - Faithful Answers, Informed Response

FAIR - Faithful Answers, Informed Response

Күн бұрын

We sit down with Brian Hales, LDS author of "Joseph Smith's Polygamy." We ask him the hard questions fast and furious and he does a great job answering them. We discuss polygamy, polyandry, and Joseph's withholding the knowledge of the practice from the public and even the general membership. Brian handles every question that is thrown at him. This is a must listen for every person who struggles with polygamy and polyandry.
The opinions expressed in this podcast and in the referenced books, presentations, podcasts and articles do not necessarily represent the opinions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or of FairMormon.
Bro. Hales books can be found here
Joseph Smith's Polygamy
Brian's Websites
www.josephsmith...
www.mormonfunda...

Пікірлер: 37
@RegardingThePlan
@RegardingThePlan 2 ай бұрын
For a long time I was bothered about how much plural marriage must have hurt Emma Smith. One day I was reading the Documentary History of the Church. On one page Joseph Smith wrote something like, “Lord God Emma went shopping today.” In another place, “Lord God, we chopped wood today.” I thought ‘That’s cool, his diary, at times, is like a prayer. He sounds like a righteous man.’ I got on my knees at the end of my bed and said, “Heavenly Father, I will read all of these volumes of this history if you will let me know if Joseph died a righteous man.” I got off my knees and didn’t give that prayer another thought. About a month later, Stan Perry was giving a talk in sacrament meeting about the martyrdom of Joseph Smith. He reminded us that when Joseph went to the window, his last words were “O Lord, my God.” I thought ‘That’s cool. That’s just like his diary.’ And then I heard five words clearly in my mind, “He died righteous man.” I know God hears our prayers. I know he knows our thoughts. I know Joseph Smith was a righteous man. So I read the documentary history of the church. It was a debt I gladly paid. As an aside, some say Joseph’s last words were a Masonic plea. I think that is a little insulting. His last words in mortality was an appeal to the Masons, I don’t think so. It is more likely he was calling upon the God he relied on every day of his life. His plea sounds like his journal. I know for a fact he died a righteous man.
@skylerreddy5436
@skylerreddy5436 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing.
@adamv4951
@adamv4951 8 жыл бұрын
This is all very interesting. I was a convert to the church when I was about 22 years old and then I learned about all of these things. And when I found out about all this, it changed absolutely nothing. Any additional information I learned about Joseph cannot change what the Spirit has told me. I may not understand all things but I do know that he was a prophet of God, just as I know President Monson is. It's the Spirit. Can't argue with it.
@masterskyrunner
@masterskyrunner 8 жыл бұрын
Its all very interesting. The rest of Christianity is so very sheltered from this kind of thing. They can criticize our founders in the full knowledge that the character of the early Christian fathers is blurred and buried beneath centuries of time. Peter rented out a school in Rome and taught there for years, yet we only have a few pages of his words in a couple epistles, but imagine the crazy things we'd find in a Journal of Discourses from Peter. At the end of the day, conversion is not some intellectual somersault that we just study our ways into, we have to have it from the Holy Ghost, and if still it weren't enough we have the lifelong and dying testimonies of so many to lean on, so especially the Three and the Eight, and Sidney Rigdon, who saw Christ in the flesh in the temple, near his death exclaimed to his son, "Mormonism is true, Joseph Smith was a prophet, and this world will find it out someday."
@adamv4951
@adamv4951 8 жыл бұрын
+The Philosophating Phrog Well said. Thank you.
@randifretwell7168
@randifretwell7168 5 жыл бұрын
Adam Vance ö
@AN-zz8ps
@AN-zz8ps 4 жыл бұрын
I am sorry I am not trying to be rude but I am just simply curious how a man who married other men's wives and ruined families and slept with little 14 year old girls can possibly be a prophet of god when there are a ton of other people god could have chosen to be his prophet who wouldn't have done awful things like that? And It JUST doesn't make sense that a religion can teach kids that there normal healthy sexual thoughts are bad and that sex before marriage is second only to murder and showing shoulders is so immodest but then the founder of the religion can go marry and sleep with other men's wives and little girls and that's totally ok? I just don't understand that it doesn't make any sense to me.
@RockinToke
@RockinToke 4 жыл бұрын
Joseph Smith was a fraud and false prophet. What did he predict that came true? Nothing.
@swamibubba
@swamibubba 9 жыл бұрын
i love fair mormon! thanks
@johndillard8348
@johndillard8348 6 жыл бұрын
No 132 does. No say you must have on wife
@charityendureth1
@charityendureth1 10 жыл бұрын
Okay .. well I have been doing some heavy duty research into these matters and what I hear from this pod cast is very disturbing. It is mostly gossip and unsubstantiated with quality evidence. Don't do stuff like this. It really is shabby journalism, infact sensationalism...
@adamv4951
@adamv4951 8 жыл бұрын
How can it be unsubstantiated with quality evidence? Quality evidence substantiates the facts.
@terriemartin1863
@terriemartin1863 6 жыл бұрын
Abraham did not have two wives. Sarah gave him her handmaid because she thought that was the only way that prophecy would be fulfilled. It was not a command from God as a “principle”. Sarah promptly kicked her out while pregnant into the wilderness. This whole story is shown to be a “type and shadow” of the new covenant and old covenant. Read this in Galatians chapter 4:21-31 it refers to Hagar as the “bondwoman” NOT plural wife. As for Isaac, it was not his choice or was he commanded by God to take plural wives. He was tricked into it by his to be father in law. Plurality of wives was Never commanded by God anywhere in scripture.
@alexspencer247
@alexspencer247 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, Terrie. I wanted engage you in a civil discussion to ask what your thoughts were about Genesis 16:3 "And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the ​land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife." It says wife, even if she was a "bondwoman." Also, what are your thoughts on Abraham's sexual relations with Hagar? If she wasn't his wife, then wouldn't that be considered adultery? The story of Abraham and Hagar might have been used to teach an abstract idea about new and old covenants, but it still literally happened. I also want to know your thoughts on why you think God was against plural marriage? I ask because He sure didn't condemn the practice of it. In fact, the only time I can think of God coming even close to doing so is when David and Solomon took wives that they weren't supposed to. Through Nathan the Prophet, The Lord says this in 1 Samuel 12: 7-8 "And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things." The Lord clearly gave Saul's wives to David, but the problem was that he took Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah, and then killed Uriah. We aren't reading here that the Lord condemns polygamy, we are reading that He took issue with David's sexual sin and killing Uriah. Also, you mentioned that Isaac didn't have a choice in the matter having multiple wives. You must be mistaking Isaac for Jacob? Wasn't it Jacob who was deceived by his father-in-law, Laban, to marry the oldest daughter, Leah? (Genesis 29) Jacob was duped, but he still chose to work another 7 years and marry Rachel. This makes him a polygamist, and God still did not condemn his actions. I hope you don't feel like I am attacking you, because I am not. The idea of God commanding and permitting plural marriage offends our modern sensibilities, and tests our faith in what God does. No doubt, God's standard for marriage is monogamy (one man and one woman), but there are clear examples where He allows plural marriage, and He does so without regard to what we "think" is "right or wrong." This may seem like a contradiction, but there many example of this in scripture. God said to Moses "Thou shalt not kill"(Exodus 20:13), and yet at other times He said "Thou shalt utterly destroy" (1 Samuel 15). Does this mean that we should throw out our belief in God and Jesus Christ? I think you and I would agree that we shouldn't abandon our faith because certain concepts and stories appear contradictory. Rather, we need to engage in the spiritual journey to learn to see things as God sees them, and often this means putting aside our 21st century way of thinking, because "the past is like a foreign country, they do things differently there." I wish that I could convince you that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that through him the Lord restored the practice of plural marriage, but I cannot. To gain a witness of this would require you to study the available evidence and seek a witness from God through His Spirit. This is the process that I have engaged in to obtain such a witness, and so I invite you to try it for yourself. What greater witness can we have than from God Himself, right? I would be weary of anyone who discourages such an experience, because what is there to fear if God is the one teaching us? Jesus said it best in John 8:32 "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Sorry for the long post, but I would really like to know what your thoughts and feelings are about this issue. Thanks!
@savezelda
@savezelda 6 жыл бұрын
Alex Spencer Excellent.
@RogerKartchner
@RogerKartchner 11 ай бұрын
You don't know that??! At the very least it was not condemned by the Lord! The problem is that you don't have all of the available scriptures to peruse! The Fathers of the Abrahamic Covenant, Abraham. Isaac, and Jacob, were all polygamists in addition to David and Solomon. I am very grateful I do not have to live this principle but to say it was not sanctioned at certain times by God is simply not true!!
@Apbt-rv7zw
@Apbt-rv7zw 7 жыл бұрын
Very Male energy point of view. Today women hate this if this was ever re-introduced you will see a mass exodus of women from our church. So why marry Orson Hydes wife while he was on his mission???
@adamv4951
@adamv4951 6 жыл бұрын
Your comment made me think of how the Lord will come and clean His house before He cleanses the earth. Can you imagine if he re-introduced polygamy? That would clean house really quick!
@Papertowels68
@Papertowels68 6 жыл бұрын
Adam Vance horrible comment
@kindervideos2008
@kindervideos2008 6 жыл бұрын
Michael Hughes Is Adam Vance wrong? I think not. Maybe the way he presented the comment could be improved, but the validity of his comment still stands.
@pernordin2641
@pernordin2641 9 жыл бұрын
"None of the men objected". Wrong. THAT was the basis for the Navoo Expositor. William Law _was a member of the First Presidency_. According to Law, Smith had made several proposals to Law's wife Jane, under the premise that Jane Law would enter a polyandrous marriage with Smith. Law's wife later described Smith's proposals, saying that Smith had "asked her to give him half her love; she was at liberty to keep the other half for her husband." On January 8, 1844, Smith removed Law from the First Presidency. On April 18, 1844, Law and his wife were excommunicated from the church, For refusing Joseph to marry Jane Law, William being previously - before the refusal - a member of the _First Presidency_!
@AndrewKennyBelfast
@AndrewKennyBelfast 9 жыл бұрын
+Per Nordin hard to believe.
@pernordin2641
@pernordin2641 9 жыл бұрын
Just fact check it. Not in an LDS apologetics, but in unbiased history. :) It's that simple.
@paulgregersen3570
@paulgregersen3570 9 жыл бұрын
William Law was famous for spreading many falsehoods and was natorious for being motivated by revenge against Joseph Smith. Obviously Law created historical falsehoods being totally relied upon by anti Mormons who base their spin on such falsehoods. Interesting how all anti Mormons must depend upon William Law and John Bennet to keep the polygamy missinformation going even today. Hats off to Mr. Hale and his clearly inactive disifected LDS historian who actually did the true research leading to his own rebaptism once he uncovered the real historical evidence about LDS polyandry. The fact that the real polygamy evidence supports Joseph Smith being a prophet became so strong that it caused this skeptical historian to turn 180 degrees from complete dissbelief to a totally restored LDS testimony is more than convincing to any honest person..
@pernordin2641
@pernordin2641 9 жыл бұрын
Paul, You claim that WL was "famous" for spreading many falsehoods. According to who was he famous for this? Show me some contemporary reference. And according to who where they falsehoods? Of course, according to JS... I find it interesting that your comments present no factual argumentation, and that which most easily demonstrates that is that one can simply change places of the particulars of your comments from "anti Mormons" to "Mormons" and visa versa, as well as in the same manner change "WL" to "JS" and "JS" to "WL" and it reads the same. Had your comments contained any factual substance, this would not be possible. But let us for a moment pretend that your comments are valid: what does that result in as to JS as a prophet, not just inspired by a God but acting under direct revelation as to how to set up the Church? Well, here we have a prophet who - under divine guidance - chooses and anoints a liar to the first presidency, anointing him as Prophet, Seer, Revelator, under his presidency... Do you see any problem with this? And tell me: if someone as a leader (religious and/or political, both in this case) is falsely accused, what is the honest, truth-loving, democratic way to respond: to publish evidence of the lie, or to simply in affect order the destruction of the print house? And if the choice of action is the latter, what does that indicate as to ones person and ones ability to defend oneself by proof? Even when I was a fervent believer in the LDS Church and accepted the Churches spin on the writings of WL (and others at the Expositor), I still felt that the smashing of the print press and burning of the Expositor building was the act of a narcissistic tyrant and dictator, rather than a truth-loving, humble prophet, acting under the guidance and light of a benevolent, truth-loving God. This is what Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mussolini, Pinochet, etc did... Joseph was not martyred, in that he was not killed because of his teachings about religion, but was called to appear before court for (and killed for) charges of treason towards the State and the Federation, for instigating violence and civil unrest, proclaiming himself King of the World and trying to use the native Americans, training them as soldiers for war-fare against the state and Federation and just acting more and more as a tyrant, terrorisering the surrounding civil community. I was raised in the Church, where these last facts (treason charges, King, training the Indians, etc) was spoken about with pride, inspiration and admiration and all explained by the gospel that a King (dictator) is the best government, if the king /dictator is good (which I still agree with in principle and can draw several historical examples, e.g. the grandfather and father of the current King of Bhutan, or the Thai Sukhothai period). I would love for you to reflect on this and _then_ reply, instead of a knee-jerk LDS-indoctrinated blind faith reply. PS. I am not anti-Mormon. I am not anti-Scientology. I am not anti-Islam. etc. I am pro-truth and pro-reality.
@paulgregersen3570
@paulgregersen3570 9 жыл бұрын
+Per Nordin If you believe J.S was a dictator then I cannot persuade you either way. Thousands who knew him say otherwise including the journals of his plural wives and likewise their extended families who either lived in the same house with him or knew him for years. If Joseph were a Warren Jeffs it would have eventually come out long ago by those closest to him. Those closest to him all tell the same positive accounts. Somebody would have come forward by now. In studying criminals and frauds all my life one thing is certain. Cowards and liars always run away when their lives are threatened. The criminal groups always eventually turn on each other in the end loyal only to themselves.. Joseph Smith went to jail willingly knowing he would die!!!!!. Its not a coward who says, "If my life has no value to my friends it has no value to myself." Cowards and liars always run! Joseph Smith never denied his original mission nor abandoned it when his own death was imminent. His friends likewise did not abandon him because they intimately him knew better than anybody else for who he really was. No, if this were a criminal conspiracy for money and fraud or power, such groups always break up and run when it all falls apart. This did not happen. The press spreading lies was inflaming the mob into mass murder of Mormons. This unstoppable fact gave Joseph no legal recourse to save Mormon lives including many innocent women and children. If they were coming to kill your family while realizing their was no honest legal recourse to stop it from happening, then you or myself would certainly do the same. As far as Mr.Law turning into another Judas, we could say the same thing about why Jesus chose Judas. I believe it is part of the gospel for each one of us to have a Judas test our faith in the gospel. If you quit the church I'd bet that you had your ownJudas inside the church betray you. Only when you are stung by one of your own do you discover the true streanth of your faith. Many are faithfull until they find their Judas betrayer within the church itself. If it happened to Christ it Will also happen to his followers.
@johndillard8348
@johndillard8348 6 жыл бұрын
Homp sexual. Marriage. Aok but polygamy is not why Mormons. Christins
@Tipple070487
@Tipple070487 8 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this discussion! it's very refreshing to hear about the research done. It helps put my doubts to rest.
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