The Post-Tribulational Rapture Strengths & Weaknesses // THE RAPTURE & ENDURANCE OF THE SAINTS

MARANATHA Global Bible Study //
The Rapture and the Endurance of the Saints Episode 38: The Post-Tribulational Rapture Strengths & Weaknesses
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[@bekahpearsonjones6101]

Excited to listen to this. I lean mid-trib/pre-wrath…was raised pre-trib but always had questions. But when I grew up and was finally truly born again in 2014 at 34…I read the whole Bible for myself in 2 months..and realized that if I’d never heard of a pretrib rapture, I never would have come to that conclusion on my own just by reading the Word without outside opinions and suggestions. I pray that I’m wrong and it IS pre-trib 😂. But I’m preparing my heart and my family to suffer and endure to the end or get my head chopped off. How many will fall away? Or be deceived and think the AC is Jesus if they have the wrong eschatology? So I pray not to be deceived, I pray for the Truth, I pray for grace and mercy to be upon all of the elect..We will soon know who was right yes? Shalom to you, and thank you.

[@squirreljones3595]

The church rapture is at judgement day John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times, it's all there in Revelation 20 Jesus is truth keep the faith

[@linak7155]

Sounds like a good plan to me, humility, wndurance an an open heart ❤️ to shomer ( hear/ guard), what the Father has given you.

[@kaykayrn1747]

Same here. When I FINALLY read Scripture for myself my whole pre-trib concept went away. I actually got angry that I was taught this! I'm so thankful that the Lord led me back to His word a few years ago as I've "unlearned" much of the junk that I thought was truth. Hallelujah! Shalom to you🌺

[@LAstandard]

#same

[@Bazooka_Sharks]

Matt 24:29-30 jesus explicitly says hes coning at the end of the great trib. Its no big deal for God to protect His people from His wrath. He does it all the time. If you dont have the mark of the beast, youve nothing to worry about. We are talking about the God who held the sun in the sky for 24 hours for a battle. Its easy sauce for Him. Also, the 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl of wrath are the same event. Soooo

[@linak7155]

There's no looking back now. I see the prophesies as having multiple fulfilments. What happened to the fathers will come to us too. I pray those with circumsiced hearts will endure to the end. 🙏

[@smithsmithington]

Yeah, God uses "fractals" all over scripture and in creation. Google "Fractals in nature" for a crazy read. It's like God's fingerprint. It totally makes sense too. If you think logically about God, He lives inside and outside of time. So, to Him, statements like "Before Abraham was, I AM" makes sense because He spans across all of time. To Him, "Now" is in the past, present, and future at the same time. So, prophetic scripture has tenses and words that sound like future events already happened AND will happen in the future. Especially in Revelation. Our multidimensional God is jaw-dropping cool.

[@jeannet7443]

Matthew 11:24: Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

[@MariaGomez-yr1zw]

I love your humility and honesty, Joel, and the responsible manner in which you teach about these things.

[@anthonyshriner4362]

This humility and honesty in his character is sooo refreshing. Thank you. Myself...sometimes when I'm discussing something biblical, I tend to get a bit excited, or possibly overzealous. I know I need to work on my approach and humility and gentleness when discussing anything really, but especially scripture. I'm glad he brought up all these finer points about the rapture and its timing, or occurrence. For the longest time I was pre-trib, then switched to post-trib, mainly because as a immature Christian I thought it would be exciting to see this all firsthand. Then I realized how foolish that was. Then when I realized it was post-trib from a more mature understanding, I felt dread, not fear..maybe more sorrow realizing the true gravity and nature of what will take place, and what we are called to endure as followers of Jesus Christ. Seeing all that's happening right now in Israel and also the middle east as a whole, and literally globally..me personally, I wonder if this is the generation that sees "these things take place"

[@jesusloveseveryone888]

I’m now Amillennial (former PreMil/Post-Trib), but I respect and appreciate this ministry dearly. May God bless all of you, and protect you each day. 🙏🏼✝️🕊️

[@mudbugdude]

A big 👍 for humility and honesty.

[@just_me2797]

I was raised a Christian and was taught many things such as a pretribulation rapture. Once I began to mature and do my own studies I immediately saw the flaw in that teaching. Regardless of what is taught, there is no way to come to that conclusion honestly. I do not believe that anyone who was not taught the concept of a pretribulation rapture would ever conceive of it just by studying the scriptures. My studies of the acriptures led me to FAI. FAI did not lead me away from pretrib they have certainly affirmed my own beliefs though. Thank you Joel for sharing your understanding and for being among us that share our testimony that Jesus Christ is our savior and that through him we shall endure everything that this life and the enemy of all brings our way.

[@dougenosh6772]

Funny that you say that you were led to FAI after you left the pre-trib camp. For me, it was similar. Like Joel stated as he could never wrap his head around a pre-trib rapture, I was the same way. One day I found myself in a point - counterpoint with a post-trib individual and upon my attempt to defend my beliefs (mainly because my church taught it), I failed in my own security of the topic. I went back to scripture and poured over the pages and finally gave up on my own for supporting a pre-trib position. That is when I went looking for the good arguments online, which led me to FAI. I had mostly capitulated to some other explanation other than pre-trib, because it just could not be validated in my heart. Like Joel stated, I am still a little fuzzy on the position I have now, I just know its going to be well into or at the end of the tribulation.

[@jeaniecurry4512]

Thank you for your wisdom and stay safe

[@gracekopec1703]

Joel thanks for the teaching looking forward to future ones. After being raised catholic I got saved and attended a strongly pre-trib church for 20+ years shortly before the plandemic I heard one of my favorite preachers (who usually teaches on creation and the flood )preach a series on how he switched from pre-trib to post tribulations/pre wrath. He convinced me to switch my theology to post tribulations pre wrath by simply reading the Bible and not just cherry picking verses while ignoring other. His argument is that the rapture takes places after the sixth seal (the last day) this happens at the end of the 70th week .then starts the day of the lord as taught in Joel 2 . He puts the start of the 1000 year reign then with it broken into two phases . One being a time of wrath as the trumpets and viles then after that a time of great peace and blessings (the millennial kingdom) As far as the last trumpet I don’t know. Maybe it follows the thinking of the rapture taking place on the feast of trumpets?

[@debbiewareing1178]

Thank you Joel…I love your forthright truthfulness. You say when you don’t know and you put all main theories forward and biblically analyse them. Thank you, God bless you and the FAI family…special 🙏 and blessings to your wife. Maranatha

[@takishasallbeautyzone]

I am enjoying this study. I feel weird or guilty saying that. But it's exciting to me. Even though the days prophesied are going to be harder than I can fully wrap my head around. The promise at the end is so glorious that I almost can't contain myself! It's almost like having a baby. No one likes labor and delivery. It's awful, gross and excruciating. But at the end...oh at the end! When they give you that perfect baby. The feeling is indescribable!! On a personal note, I can tell you that loosing a child is the hardest thing I've ever had to endure. We've had to bury two children. Our 1st daughter lived for 7 months and passed away from a heart problem. Our second son was stillborn. And we've had 5 miscarriages. Thankfully, Yahweh allowed us to have 2 healthy children in the midst of all of this agony. And if Yahshua's return is going to be half as glorious as the birth of our healthy babies (and I know it will be 1000 times better), it is worth enduring the misery. So just like I immersed myself in pregnancy, labor and delivery talk, books and t.v. shows (KZbin wasn't really a big thing back then) as I was waiting for the big day...I feel like that's the same excited rigamaroll the body of Christ has as we wait for His dramatic and majestic return!!! I am fired up!! Whooo! Amen!

[@charlenebeard4123]

Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?” And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Daniel 12:8-10 Verse 9 The closer we get our understanding will increase His Word is a light and a lamp :) Praise Him Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

[@kiannamariephelps]

I was pre trib coming into my walk just because of outsiders views and I’ve been so curious about it all. I asked for discernment and asked God to reveal things to me and got the nudge to just research and read the scripture myself to form my own opinion based off what it says and I am definitely a post trib believer. Guess we will find out!

[@hippiebaptistchaplain]

You speak of discernment and yet support a ministry lead by a serial sex addict and adulterer? Dalton and his pride are now open for the world to see, follow Jesus not wolves in sheep clothing

[@charlenebeard4123]

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter Proverbs 25:2

[@jawneethecurious]

Very balanced overview Joel, your transparency is both refreshing and reasonable!

[@Jesuswins7]

The only scriptural position is the resurrection is the last day, and scripture clearly says the dead in Christ rise first. I was taught pre trib for 30 years and was always confused. Clarity comes when you just accept what is written.

[@ShermanFisher-pw6ny]

Look at the book of Joshua. The seventh day they circled seven times . Notice also that Rahab and her people were saved after the walls fell on the seventh day. Could they be a type of the church?

[@kindnessheals]

Love your humble spirit in explaining your understanding.

[@billybroadwater6133]

Thanks Joel for the lesson. I would also add another glaring problem for post tribulation is that after the cosmic events at the 6th seal and before the blowing of the trumpets iin chapter 8 s that the 144,000 are sealed in chapter 7 for protection from God's wrath ie. the trumpets. If the church is still here then we would be under the judgment of God. Remember, at the 5th trumpet only those sealed (144,000) are protected from the locust creatures that torment for 5 months.

[@Juan0481]

Hi Joel, wanted to let you know i picked up the Robert Van Kampen book, "The Rapture Question Answered". Thanks for mentioning it. It's so helpful.

[@dustindustindontworry-jz8dh]

The rapture is at the 6th seal when the asteroids heavenly bodies begin falling from the sky.. This SPECIFIC event is listed as the WRATH of God. Many pre-tribbers wrongly consider the whole tribulation to be the wrath of God and it's not.

[@2Timothy2.15]

Agreed. Revelation is written Semitically, not chronologically. There is recapitulation throughout the book. John writes about the Second Coming of Christ more than once (eg. Revelation 6-7, Revelation 10-11, Revelation 14, Revelation 19-20). Furthermore, the “wrath” that the Church is not appointed unto is the “orge” wrath only per the original Greek. This wrath is only mentioned 6 times in Revelation and is always in a post-trib context (cf. 1 Thess. 5:9; Rev 6:16-17; 11:18; 14:10; 16:19; 19:15).

[@eaglea657]

Correct!

[@kayjewelers9999]

In my opinion The perspective would be different visions describing the same time period and it's as if his vision of seven trumpet and bowls covers the same ground and time period again, but adding to the picture as the judgments are intensifying. The purpose would be to bring repentance. Almost like the judgments in Egypt. They eventually intensified as Pharaoh continued to rebel.

[@pretribtruth]

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. The seals/trumpets/vials run in parallel to the extent that Jesus returns between the 6th and 7th of each. Here we see Him returning as a thief between the 6th and 7th vial. Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Here again we see Jesus returning between the 6th and 7th trumpets. Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And here we see Jesus returning after the 6th seal. Rev 9 and 16 both speak of the same event, Armageddon. The 6th seal has the same signs we see mentioned in Matt 24. Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Rev 6 and Matt 24 speak of the same event that Rev 9 and 16 do. Jesus doesn't return 4 times so these all have to be the same event. Peace, Seeker

[@RealDefinitionsMatter]

I actually came to a very similar conclusion.

[@brucejarrell5707]

Revelation 12:12 (KJV) Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. The tribulation is satens wrath not Gods wrath Gods wraft is in the bowl judgment after the rapture Can someone give bible for a 7 year tribulation? Save Daniel 9-27

[@Roger-g5e]

3 1/2

[@Katya75RN]

Great message. Thanks for all you do! Let your sound guy know you have a heck of a whistle in the mic with your "s" sounds.

[@HeatherSierra-um6lz]

THE LAST DAY IN GREEK IS AFTER THE TRIBULATION. MEANING LAST DAY AFTER THOSE DAY AFTER TRIBULATION THE LAST DAY. GOD BLESS❤

[@scbt2888]

On one hand I’m pre-wrath in that I believe the rapture and 2nd coming are after the 6th seal. But on the other hand , I believe that occurs at the end of the tribulation. I also believe that Rev 19 is descriptive of the 2nd coming after the 6th seal and is the same event.

[@NobleBerean]

Thank you bro, for this teaching, I would say your greatest weakness to Postribulationism, is one of my issues as well with it. Another one I would say is 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 (NASB95): 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. How can we say that the people of the world will say peace and safety if the rapture is at the seventh trumpet? God has just devastated the earth through the trumpet and perhaps bowl judgments if at least those two Septets are concurrent. It's clear that the trumpets issue forth out of the seventh seal. So the seals cannot be concurrent with the trumpets and bowls. Love you bro,-Obed

[@darylm5944]

Could be a reference to peace and safety amoungst man - the beasts enemies being destroyed so now "the rest of us can be at peace"

[@kenklein9228]

@@darylm5944 Exactly. The trouble makers have been dealt with.

[@NobleBerean]

The context of 1 Thessalonians 5 is the destruction that comes upon the world via the day of the Lords Wrath. The Wrath of God is the destruction that takes the world by surprise. If this destruction happened at the 7th trumpet their would be no element of surprise as much of the earth has already been devastated.

[@NobleBerean]

It's best to place the 2nd coming after the sixth seal, exactly when Jesus said he was coming in Matthew 24.

[@dougenosh6772]

You do realize that the ":Thief in the night" passage is resolved in Revelation 16:15-16 “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame. And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.” Keep in mind that passage is placed at the end of the Sixth Bowl, just before the Seventh Bowl where the voice from heaven shouts, "It is done!"

[@LastDaysDetective]

Enjoyed this! I think it all boils down to the question of whether there will be one or two future comings of Christ. Paul wrote that what we call the rapture will happen at the coming of the Lord (1 Thess 4), and there is no evidence from Scripture of more than one future coming. And when Jesus comes, he will destroy the Antichrist, and that's after the tribulation. The decisive question is not WHEN the rapture will happen, but WHAT the rapture is. The Bible portrays the rapture, not as a journey to heaven, but a gathering of the resurrected and glorified saints to meet Jesus in the air when he descends from heaven at his coming. The answer to the question - WHAT is the rapture? answers the question of WHEN it will happen. It's that simple!

[@evanbirkby4501]

Dear Joel, I love watching your teaching and reading your books. I handed you a copy of my book “God Has Made Known The Rapture and Two Witnesses”. I would be happy to discuss with you on video the Mid-Week view. You have my card. The Mid-Week view is a variation on the Mid-tribulation view that mixes in Pre-wrath elements and dispensational elements. All scripture fits without significant weaknesses. I think such a discussion would be of great value to your listeners. The war in Israel may be leading to the Gog Magog war, and I hope we can talk before these events unfold.

[@Roger-g5e]

Mid view is the most flawed few

[@BodyBuildingDevos]

*I wrote this before listening to the whole video. I have heard it taught that the seals, trumpets and bowls in Revelation are not on a continuous timeline but are all overlapping each other. For instance the 1st seal, 1st trumpet and 1st bowl are occurring at the same time. If this is true then there is no major weakness in the post trib view. Any thoughts on this?

[@charltonrowe4161]

The first coming lined up with the spring festivals and happened in real time. I think the second coming will do the same thing with the fall festivals.

[@LastTrump7]

100%. From the “rapture” at the feast of trumpets to the day of Atonement, the DAY when the nation of Israel will be saved in ONE DAY, to the feast of Tabernacles begins the reign of Jesus on the Throne for a 1,000 year Sabbath will take place according to the pattern and times given. They are the LORDS appointed days for a reason. They are not ours to move around according to our church doctrine or opinions. It will be a process. I don’t understand it in every detail or need to but HE a said it, I believe it.

[@karen4928]

Scripture says "but for the elect's sake, it will be cut short" As I understand the scriptures, the cutting short is for the elect - a pre-wrath rapture for those to whom "it is not appointed." and then the final portion of the week is fulfilled with God pouring out his wrath.

[@LastTrump7]

It’s hard to believe a GOD who can not lie, not shadow of turning, would say the period would be 1,260 in so many scriptures and different prophets then say no I changed my mind I’m going to cut that 1,260 shorter for the saints sake when HE assiduously the saints would be given over to tribulation from the antichrist for 1,260 days??? I believe and I see no scripture or pattern given by GOD that would chop off part of that? The people who hold that view don’t know if that could be 2 years shorter or 13, 9…months? Because it is not scripture for any of that. The term cut shorter only means if it was allowed to go any longer then GOD had allowed. 7 years is shorter then 7 1/2 years? By then there would be no flesh left.

[@ronnieturner1356]

[2Co 11:3 KJV] 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

[@davidritz2724]

Romans 11:17 says we are wild olive branches and are grafted into the olive tree. Would that make us Israel? Are we not the seed of Abraham? So wouldn’t that make things more clear we are the saints as is Israel?

[@BibleTalk777Studios]

Pre wrath or post trib? yes its hard to decide but it is most definitely NOT pre trib. All though i wish it was. Looking forward to hearing Alan. God bless 🙏

[@dougenosh6772]

You know, there is something that is also coming for us who believe during the trib madness, that is the super-charged experience of the Holy Spirit that will be more manifest than what we see now. In that understanding, I am really hopeful that I get to experience an even greater sense of the Lord working through me than what I know now.

[@BibleTalk777Studios]

@@dougenosh6772 Amen!

[@AshleyShifflett-t6j]

Howcome you mention (in 2 videos that I've listened to now) the possibility of getting a proponent of post-trib to come on & talk, but not pre-trib? I find a more fault in the stance that we will endure God's wrath - which completely undermines Christ's work on the cross (it is finished) - than the belief that we will be caught up in the air before the 70th week begins. Edited to add that I appreciate your sensibility on this topic, and that you point out strengths and weaknesses of each view. I still recommend that anyone who's never seen Chuck Missler's teachings on the rapture, go & check it out. As well as his incredibly thorough study in Revelation. Of course, Daniel is so critical to understanding Rev, so you may go watch his Daniel studies as well 😄

[@mattgrant2646]

Matthew 24:29-31 seems to be a summary of what described in Revelation. Jesus places the resurrection after the heavenly signs, after His appearance to the tribes of Israel. The chronology of Mt 24 is the same as the resurrection happening at the 7th trumpet as described in Revelation. Indeed, Revelation 10:7 says the Mystery of God (salvation by grace through faith in Jesus and harvest of the Gentiles/Israel/church) is complete in the days of the voice of the seventh angel (seventh trumpet), which co-joins with the seventh trumpet passage in Revelation 11:15-19, before the seven bowls in Rev 16. Hope this is helpful, Correct me, point out problems please.

[@mikehaney6922]

well Joel, i agree with you that there is NO pre trib rapture, i knew that several years ago. but there are simply too many holes in a second coming res/rapture. All i know is that the AC is truly "revealed" at mid trib, after that we could be 'caught up' at anytime. As brothers in the Lord we can agree to disagree. Take care, and Shalom.

[@michaelsmith2733]

After being saved for 50 yrs, I think I am with you on that Mike Haney. I am definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and I wish it were pre trib, but I just can't hold solidly to any one view still. I pray for God's help and mercy if I have to go through that most horrible time in history. I am very ill and may not make it to that point, but if I do my feet won't allow me to run, sooooooooo, oh Lord Jesus save me!!!!!

[@Bazooka_Sharks]

Jesus said hes coming at the end, matt 24:29-30. There is no other option. Any other belief is calling Jesus a liar. Nail meet coffin. Case closed

[@PrayLoveSmile]

7 years ago i ''woke up'' from this delusion....People in general accepted this theory so easily because everyone wants it to be true! Noone wants to debunk something like this! Why would this generation be so privileged and be removed when things get really dark? Even the apostles suffered persecution , are we more special then them? dont think so... :(

[@cameron1677]

Hey Joel, want to know your thoughts! So revelation 19-20 give chronological “then” statements about the events to follow in the end. If I’m not mistaken. It says those who are alive and believe combined with this who were killed during the tribulation are those who are resurrected during the millennial reign. Revelation 20 4-5. Then the rest of the dead will be raised at the white throne judgement after the millennial reign. When Jesus references the the final day or the end isn’t he referring to the end of this age/time. Because the eternity we all think about is after the white throne judgement. Would love to know your thoughts! Please reply!

[@ShermanFisher-pw6ny]

The events will happen as a birth or birth pains. They will happen closer and closer together as they come to and end.

[@timfinch7857]

As one who believes the scriptures teach a post-trib/ pre-wrath mid-week rapture, I super appreciate brother Joel and his humble attitude towards those who do not agree with him. Even though I hold to a mid-week rapture view, I am much more persuaded towards a post-trib/ end of week rapture than a pre-trib/pre-week rapture. I have found that most of those who teach a pre-trib view are super dogmatic and combative towards those who disagree with them. I think it is foolish, unnecessary and divisive to dismiss those who have strong biblical arguments against the pre-trib rapture teaching.

[@dougenosh6772]

Its truly amazing to me how dismissive the pre-tribbers are, even to the point of appearing angry at times and running away from the discussion.

[@marymcmullen5644]

Do you think that some of the last days or revelation has already happened?

[@ThunderTech77]

If you compare the coming Rapture to Daniel's 70th week and not use the word "Tribulation" where would one place the Resurrection & Rapture on Daniel's 70th week Timeline?

[@BIG_r.]

Daniel 12:1-3

[@Tiki71]

To say the Seals, Trumpets and bowls are sequential or blended requires an assumption on both sides. If you look at a chart of the trumpets and bowls. From the 2nd Trumpet and 2nd bowl, they're afflicting the same thing: 2nd: Sea life 3rd: Bitter waters/Rivers of bood 4th: Deals with the Sun and scorching 5th: Locusts/Beast gov. afflicted 6th: 200M man army/Euphrates dries up, could be demonic release 7th: Kingdom proclaimed/Earth utterly shaken The silence in heaven for a half hour between 6th and 7th seal is the Wormhole opening from Eternity to our realm of time. There is a similar interlude between the 6th and 7th Trumpet in which we have the mysterious 7 Thunders and it is announced that there should be NO MORE TIME. When Eternity opens up into our dimension, it will cause time to cease. Total speculation on my part, but the red horse of war in the 2nd seal may be a reflection of the war in Heaven and Satan is kicked out and forced to enter the rider on the white horse. For your consideration.

[@loweeization]

Joel, on enduring until 1,335 days. What happens if the Christian is killed before that milestone? It sounds like it's going to be impossible to reach that mark.

[@LastTrump7]

If the last 3 1/2 years, 1,260 days of Great Tribulation and it is clear it is…then what is the extra 30 days to the 1,290 and the extra 45 days to the 1,335 days? That is a total of 75 days past the last 3 1/2 years? What are those days for and mean. That would take you 75 days into the millennium?

[@AidenRKrone]

The argument that convinced me that the Rapture and the Second Coming are the same event _(i.e.,_ the Rapture takes place at the end of the Tribulation) is the olive-tree argument. Paul tells us in Romans 11 and Ephesians 2 that Gentile believers in Jesus Christ have been grafted in to the Abrahamic olive tree and the spiritual Commonwealth of Israel; thus, we become children of Abraham through faith; thus, we are Israelites. If Israel will experience the entirety of the Tribulation (which is something even dispensationalists agree with), and if Gentile believers are Israelites, would this not mean that Christians will experience the Tribulation too? To me, it makes sense.

[@jimsh8189]

Pre trip, mid trip, post trip!! My opinion, no. Of them are specifically clear. They all have points, and arguments. One thing that is clear, Salvation is through faith alone

[@dustindustindontworry-jz8dh]

If that faith isn't producing a righteous lifestyle, then it's not saving you. Salvation is NOT mere MENTAL ASSENT into "belief in Jesus". Everyone, mentally assents to the "belief in Jesus". Westerners water down the gospel to their own detriment and they live un disciplined lives.

[@jimsh8189]

@@dustindustindontworry-jz8dh I agree. I’m not watering nothing down when I say that it’s by faith alone. It’s only through my faith in Christ, not by my own works. I believe their should be evidence of your salvation, but sanctification is a process. Not everyone has that instant deliverance. Some people can be ALL WORKS looking righteous but have no Love, that can be fake too.

[@dougenosh6772]

Frankly, as a late to post trib guy, and looking at the rest of the timeline, and the events that will happen, I would be surprised if many "Saints" will be around at the moment of the rapture. I fully expect most of us will have been killed in one manner or another (natural causes or otherwise) by that time. Even still, our charge of endurance is the same.

[@shannonelliotte6653]

How do mortal humans enter the millennial kingdom if the rapture happens at the end? Who would be left?

[@jesusloveseveryone888]

That very question was what led me to Amillennialism after years of being a Pre-Mil/Post-Tribber. I’m now Amil which was believed to be the truest eschatological position by the early Church fathers. The Catholic and Orthodox church dating dating back as far as 2,000 years would argue that we’re currently in the symbolic 1,000 years (1,000 meaning a long time). In the Lord’s Prayer, “Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on Earth and it is in Heaven…” That changed everything for me - even to the point where I abandoned Protestantism for Catholicism.

[@shellydavis6784]

Where is the scripture or scriptures that states the seven years are separated from the other 43? I don't understand why God would separate the remaining seven years. And why would God judge the people of Israel in the future and not the ones who actually rejected Jesus and crucified Him?

[@jasonsisson1391]

Where does Revelation 3:10 fit in at?

[@TheRgordon16]

Unless the scriptures actually tells us they are martyred saints you can’t declare them to be martyred saints. And you cannot believe that suddenly a large multitude of saints were all killed at once, all around the world and then suddenly at once all appear in heaven. It says they came out of great tribulation; not killed. If they were killed then the scriptures would have told us they were killed

[@dougenosh6772]

I think that you are referring to two different groups and not the same group.

[@katebee945]

Have any of these videos addressed who is supposed to populate the millenial kingdom? I think that's a pretty strong argument on the part of pre-tribbers. If all the saints are raptured into their new heavenly bodies just before the millenium, who are the humans that are procreating?

[@jessecarter5490]

Just a thought. Again requires more study. But as we see the 7th seal open and obviously that’s the end and the rapture occurs and the day of His wrath begins. If we are all in our glorified bodies at this point and we are meeting the Lord in the air, escorting Him back to earth as He begins pouring out His wrath, what if the trumpet judgements and the bowl judgements are simply showing us what will take place while Jesus and His saints have returned back to the earth in glorified state. I guess what I’m saying is, is it possible that what we see with the trumpets and the bowls, describes the events that occur as Jesus is pouring out His wrath on an unbelieving sinful world.? And because we are already in our glorified state is why we are not appointed to wrath? We will simply be spectating etc. Trampling the ashes etc etc. Just a thought. Or it could be some parallel overlapping. Either way, I’m excited to dive into the scriptures again now that I am free from dispensationalistic thought. Definitely requires some study. But having said that, I never could reconcile myself with pretrib versus Prewrath. So I always just shelved this topic and concluded to just be ready for persecution no matter what. The issue with dispensationalism is exactly what I went through. It created confusion as a new believer and contradicted with what I was actually reading in the text. So many people would tell me I was wrong and this verse was for Israel and not the church etc. I never could buy into that. Never made sense to me. Having said that, and thanks to the Lord, I can now see that scripture means exactly what it says. And I am 100 percent convinced now after 9 years of confusion, that there is one second coming of Christ, one rapture and it is, because Jesus said so, at the end of the tribulation. It’s so clear when you remove all of the man made systems of theology and dispensations out there and just read the word for yourself. It’s so clear. Amen to that and Thank You Lord. And now as I study Gods word with that understanding, whew….Gods word is so much clearer now. It’s very liberating not being bound and shackled by philosophy and empty deceit according to the traditions of men that are not according to Christ. (Paraphrasing Col 2:8). Advice to everyone. Let the scriptures speak for themselves. Be blessed.

[@davleo77777]

No mention of the resistance those of us whom are not taken up will most likely be part of the resistance the small forces to battle the AC and his armies and to help convince the non believers to help save their souls Watch Megiddo Code Omega 2 movie its more than a movie I believe it’s an accurate betrayal of what will happen

[@jaywebber2878]

True, God is not the author of confusion. Had he wanted to be clear about the 7th trumpet he would have had said 7th trumpet not last trumpet. They COULD be the same, but to say they are the same takes conjecture on your part. It sure would be nice if the scripture was clearer on this point, and many others 😂 . I think it comes back to a bigger issue, and that is trusting in Him.😊

[@joeynelms]

Have you heard of a teaching that says there is no rapture but a second Exodus only.

[@Docjam23]

Joel, I challenge you to address Zechariah 9:14-16. The Lord God blows the trumpet, and His arrow goes forth as lightning and He saves His people and lifts them up as stones in a crown and as an ensign above His land. You believe that is.... an angel blowing a trumpet?

[@BIG_r.]

yes, angels are the trumpet of God :) When God said I blow the trumpet that means the agels blows it ...

[@Docjam23]

@@BIG_r. you don't have scripture for this and you know it. Matthew 24 says the Son of Man will send forth His angels with the great sound of a trumpet, 1 Thessalonians 4 says it's the trump of God, not trump of an angel, and Zechariah 9 says specifically the Lord God blows the trumpet. Jesus was referring back to Zechariah 9 in another overt reference to say that He is the Lord God, like when He quoted Daniel 7 with Him being the Son of Man riding the clouds.

[@BIG_r.]

@@Docjam23 so you're saying 1 Corinthians 15:52 is not the same as 1 Thessalonians 4? it didn't say trump of God... but it says the last trump :) it is the 7th trumpet spoken of in Revelation... i know you will deny this.. can you provide passages that explain what will happen at the 1st trump, 2nd trump, or the 3rd trump? it says the last trump so it must have trumpet sounds prior to the last trump. let's study 1 Thessalonians 4 :16 a little further :) 👉For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto "The Coming Of The Lord" shall not prevent them which are asleep. it says 👉 "The Coming Of The Lord" ... the same phrase used by apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 "The Coming Of The Lord" is our gathering unto him (verse 1) apostle Paul clearly stated that "The Coming Of The Lord" and our gathering unto him is called "The Day of the Lord" (verse 2)..... and for that day (speaking of the Day of the Lord) shall not come except there come a falling away from faith and the anti-christ is revealed first (verse 3). you cannot get any clearer than that :) so if you say that 1 Thessalonians 4 is the rapture prior to the tribulation it is a contradiction to what apostle says in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3... you may not know what the phrase "Day of the Lord" means so here it is... 👉But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10 kjv)

[@Docjam23]

@@BIG_r. Paul was teaching from the old testament, not dreams and visions. Revelation would not be written for decades, and Paul was communicating to the Corinthians who might not have even read Revelation in their lifetime. So what's the most simple explanation here: That God communicated directly to Paul about 7 trumpets, Paul never explains them, and leaves this confusing statement about a last trumpet that they'd have to read a book written by someone else decades later to understand..... Or Paul was teaching out of the Old Testament and referring to Zechariah 9. You're thinking from the perspective of someone who has read a book the Corinthians did not have. Joel's argument is that God is not the author of confusion, but what Paul would have been doing is VERY confusing if Paul was communicating direct revelation without any explanation or reference to revealed scripture.

[@Docjam23]

@@BIG_r. and yes, the coming of the Lord. A hint: it is *NOT* Revelation 19. Jesus is already covered in blood at that point, He has *been* on Earth treading the winepress of His wrath alone, read Isaiah 63. Jesus returns on a cloud. Not a flying white horse.

[@hma06969]

I’m confused, 1 week ur certain with post and then next week ur not sure, I heard u on a you tube interview and ur were passionate on a post trip

[@rocdajacable]

Sighted moon 🌙 Brand new staute of Mary built & plastered not yet revealed in Jerusalem Multiple altars already on site I would pay attention to these things

[@Post-Trib]

It's easier once we know that the seals and trumpets are not the wrath of God. Only the vials or cups or bowls are specifically called the wrath of God. Nothing else is. The seals are 1st and then one of the seals unleashes the 7 trumpets 🎺. After the tribulation and resurrection, then the vials of God's wrath are poured out.

[@rickybobby9797]

There isn’t any problem with the sixth seal of Revelation lining up with the post 70th rapture view. Simply put, the fall of “daughter Babylon” (the Eagle) occurs right before planet Wormwoods devastation on the earth-beginning at the sixth seal. The ONLY hope of physically surviving these events is by going to Judea when the “message” goes out as referenced in Revelation by the first of the angels messages (to be given through an actual prophet). However, only those called (Joel 2:32) will go to Judea. As for the remaining (those who survive many of Wormwood’s destruction-6th seal through the 4th trumpet) believers who chose not to go there, they will have to contend with the events described in Revelation. Mother Babylon (the Lion) falls at the end of the 70th week. Mystery Babylon consists of TWO components. One falls TWO years into the 70th week and the other at the end. Hence, when you read in Revelation when there are believers in heaven cheering at Babylon’s fall it is referring to the mother-who is being devastated by the 7 bowls of God’s wrath. Yeshua and the saints then defeat the armies of this now destroyed kingdom.

[@2Timothy2.15]

We need to keep in mind that Revelation is written Semitically, not chronologically. There is recapitulation throughout the book. John writes about the Second Coming of Christ more than once (eg. Revelation 6-7, Revelation 10-11, Revelation 14, Revelation 19-20). Due to the Semitic style of apocalyptic literature employed by John, in addition to many of the specific details that John gives us all throughout Revelation, the seals, trumpets and vials cannot be sequential one after the other. Rather, they are lateral/parallel events or judgments whereby the seventh of each all end right around the same time in the eschaton - immediately after the tribulation. This is a view that is supported by many teachers and theologians. Jamieson, Fausset & Brown, for example, which is considered by many to be the standard conservative-evangelical work, write in their commentary that “the seven seals, the seven trumpets, and the seven vials, are not consecutive, but parallel, and ending in the same consummation. They present the unfolding of God’s plans for bringing about the grand end under three different aspects, mutually complementing each other.” In fact, if you compare the trumpets and vials themselves together side by side, you’ll begin to see a pattern that presents the trumpets and vials as two sides of the same coin whereby the trumpets are the cause, and the vials are the effect.

[@JazFP_Jona]

interesting.

[@jasonsisson1391]

How can they be parallel when Rev 8:6 specifically says the trumpets are blown after the 7th seal?

[@2Timothy2.15]

@@jasonsisson1391 It doesn't. At first glance it may appear that way to our more linear mindset, but we need to keep in mind that Revelation is written in the Semitic style of apocalyptic literature. John does not say "and after these things" anywhere in Revelation 8:2-6 to suggest consecutivity. He suddenly does a quick rewind to now describe a different aspect that the seals entail to focus our attention to things that consequently take place as seals are being opened. The "trumpets" announce those consequences (and the bowls of wrath are the effect of the "trumpet" causation). This Semitic writing style may seem odd to us (unless you're a fan of Christopher Nolan films) but it's something that we also find in the Genesis account regarding creation and is why some skeptics claim that there are two different creation accounts when in fact there is only one. There's recapitulation.

[@preachx2all]

Let's note that the saints in the bible refers only to those who have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior. The Jews are saints ! Read Rev. 13: Revelation 13:7 (KJV) 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Will the Antichrist overcome the saints after they've been raptured ?

[@squirreljones3595]

The church rapture is at judgement day John 6 39-54 Jesus says at the Last day four times, it's all there in Revelation 20 Jesus is truth keep the faith

[@cor-tg3oi]

Hi Joel! This is my first time ever commenting and I'll make it short. Topic: Matthew 24:22 The cutting short of antichrist's 3 1/2 year reign. We have to remember context. Jesus is not talking about the length of time the antichrist reigns. Read Matthew 24:21. The days to be cut short are the "great tribulation" days. AKA The persecution of God's elect. After God removes His elect, antichrist still is ruling/reigning. Sadly, there will be a lot of people worshipping him(antichrist) for 3 1/2 years. He just doesn't have Gods elect to persecute any more. You know, the people that were NOT worshipping him. I haven't forgot Israel. They will saved to Jerusalem at the end. Also, how does God cut short the persecution of His elect? You know: rap.... Oh, so much more. God Bless you Joel and your family too!!

[@venson555]

The mystery of the last week or 7yrs. John only reveals 3/1/2 YRS. THIS IS TRUE not seven Clue when Messiah said he would be raised on the third day, the mystery is the third day of what if you understand this then you will understand John 6-39,40.44,54, which our Messiah says the Last Day in this revelation you will see truly why John only refers to 3/1/2 yrs. because this will complete the 7 yrs. covenant (blood) of Messiah by the two witness and they will lay dead 3/1/2 days this is the resurrection and rapture Blessed are those that qualified for the first resurrection for the second death has no authority over you? ??? the third day and the 7th day completes the 7yrs and the 7 days?? You must know these are mysteries to the KINGDOM ! Shalom venson

[@teeztoyz]

You state the pre-tribulation rapture viewpoint is indefensible, I believe there is one chapter in Revelation that is unequivocal is displaying a pre-tribulation rapture - Revelation chapter 12. In that chapter we see Satan(Dragon) being cast out of Heaven he goes after the woman(Israel) but she is carried off into the wilderness and protected for a time time and half a time. The dragon also goes after the man child(believers) but is Harpazo'd up to God and His throne. Firstly, why can the man child be associated as believers or christians or those who have faith in Christ? Because in Rev 2:26-27 we see Jesus gives authority to those who believe and overcome to rule wit a iron rod the same as the man child found in Rev 12:5 and because Jesus was never raptured even as a baby or needs to be. In Revelation chapter 12:5 we see the woman(Israel) who gave birth to the man child(church) is protected for 1260 days while the man child gets snatched up(raptured). 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. This is PRIOR(PRE) to the Dragon(Satan) rule or reign during the Jacob's time of trouble. During the reign of the beast the Two Witnesses and angels will be professing the gospel and many will come to Christ these I believe are the saints spoken of that must endure - not to dismiss that ALL believers must endure because as christians we are told we will face much persecution which I and many other christians face today and in history. No pre-trbulation rature teaching I know of says we won't face persection and tribulation. What the pre-tribulation doctrine holds to is that prior to the time the beast(antichrist/dragon/Satan) christians will be raptured first, and I believe Revelation chapter 12 displays that.

[@BIG_r.]

church is always reffered to as a she :) The man child is Jesus and he was ascended up unto heaven to sit on the right hand of God and he will rule (singular) not rulerssss. Revelation 12:5 kjv And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

[@teeztoyz]

@@BIG_r. I believe as stated in my original comment Jesus was never snatched up, the greek in this verse is harpazo. According to Rev 2:27 we will rule with Him with rod of iron so considering that Jesus was never raptured or ever needs to be as He is God and this is not a historical passage speaking of an ascension but a rapture of one who will rule with a rod of iron it can only mean the church according to Rev 2:27 who then according to Rev 12 will be raptured PRE Dragons reign. Nothing you have presented disqualifies what I presented. I am open to it but I don't see it.

[@BIG_r.]

​@@teeztoyz you skipped verse 25 and 26 :) which states 👉 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: Revelation 2:26 👈 speaks about the overcomers who endured to the end and the 2nd coming of Jesus. i don't think you will rule with him when your entent is to get the hell out prior to the tribulation :) again, Revelation 12 speaks about the ascention of Jesus unto heaven and sit on his throne..... not speaking about you sitting on your own throne, lol. so what's next.... worship you??

[@teeztoyz]

@@BIG_r. Pretty foul tone for a Christian. So who is it then that you believe is given eagles wings and protected for a time time and half a time 1260 days? It is absolutely not talking about an ascension as the word used in the original Greek is HARPAZO. Jesus also controls what Satan can do He is the one who Harpazos/raptures us He doesn't need to be snatched/raptured away from Satan as the man child does who is also found in Rev 2:27 as already stated. Those who you are referring to your verses are those who were not raptured but came to Christ from the two witnesses, angels. They did not come to Christ by faith just as many Jews will only come to Christ through the great tribulation - that is the reason for it it is the time of Jacob's trouble.

[@BIG_r.]

@@teeztoyz you aksed 👉 "who is given eagles wings and protected for a time time and half a time 1260 days?" .... the answer says in the verse that you quoted from :) " it's the woman" which is the Jews, Revelation 12:14 which also stated by prophet Isaiah 👉 read --> Isaiah 26:17-21:) The Jews will be protected during the great tribulation .... not raptured but protected. Revelation 12:4-5 kjv And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. In this vision the woman who gives birth to a son is the tribes of Israel who produced the Messiah, Jesus :) Herod the king tried to kill Jesus shortly after his birth (read Matthew 2:16-18) ..... And her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne ... This clearly denotes the resurrection and the ascension of Christ. And he will rule all nations with a rod of tron. Revelation 19:15 kjv And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

[@elibennett6168]

Here's what I think - not that anyone asked - lol. I think it is pretty clear Christians go through the majority of the final 7 years since Jesus specifically told us a major sign ahead of his coming is the abomination of desolation (When you see....). There has to be someone that populates the thousand year reign. There has to be Jews in Israel for Jesus to shepherd in person. We know that a remnant is saved. Revelation 12 shows the woman being supernaturally protected so the dragon goes after the rest of her offspring, those who hold to testimony of Jesus. That right there shows a bifurcation of a set of Jews who are preserved bodily and the dragon's war against Christians. We also know that 144k Jews are sealed around the same time that a great multitude appears in heaven. God clearly cuts the time short otherwise no flesh would be saved. I do wonder if the people who wait for the 1335 day are the ones left bodily on earth who have enough faith or awakening of some sort to hold out in exile and Jesus restores them to the land when he returns with his "reward". The bible states blessed are those who die in the Lord from then on, and people will have long lifespans. It is a little odd to me that the world will still see death even in the millennium, but we also know that the nations will be deceived at the end of this time to rebel one last time with Satan. To me, the millennium is Jesus' reward to take rightful kingship of Israel, regathering Israel, because the Father promised to prolong his days for what he did to save humanity (see Isaiah 49, and 53). Having said this, I certainly agree wholeheartedly that no one should be clubbing others over the various rapture theories. Honestly, if Jesus comes earlier than I am expecting and I will lift up my head with thanks! It is those that shrink away that will not please him.

[@thatguy9057]

OK so… in my lifetime I could die from a disease, die in an earthquake, die in a flood, have my head cut off by terrorist, a meteor could hit my house, could die in a fire, etc. if some world leader today, conquered the world and said I have to take his mark and worship him or I can’t buy or sell I would, of course, reject his mark. So those things could also happen to me in Daniels 70th week. How then is my belief in a pre-tribulation rapture dangerous??? is it because I’m not going to build a bunker and horde a bunch of food? I cannot believe you keep talking about how dangerous my eschatological understanding is. It’s ridiculous. Everything that could happen in the tribulation could happen to me today except for the antichrist. If I was wrong and suddenly here’s the antichrist, I am not going to be deceived into taking his mark. I don’t think any solidly, born-again believer could be deceived into that.

[@RealDefinitionsMatter]

It’s great that you have been able to have a bigger picture view of it all, but much of the church IS deceived on MANY, MANY….MANY doctrines. Pre-trib creates an apathetic, complacent mindset that elevates sparring the flesh. It’s not encouraging preparation spiritually or physically for the road ahead. Imagine if you believed you wouldn’t have to endure any tribulation and it didn’t happen the way you have been taught, and now you are left in the unknown. That WILL destroy many’s faith to the point they turn away altogether. Our previous church taught the “blessed hope” is the pre-trib rapture, not the 2nd coming as Scripture states. It’s a lie. It may not feel dangerous to you (which is great), but in my life alone, I see those that hold to this view as very dangerous to their faith…& their road ahead. You can’t edify others to stand for the faith in hard times, when yours is waivering feeling like you’ve been lied to all your life. Both fall in that situation. Blessings to you!

[@thatguy9057]

We pretribbers do not believe we will not endure “any tribulation”. We could endure, as many Christians have and do, many tribulations well before the “Great Tribulation” of Daniels Seventieth Week even begins. If we look around one day and every prophecy concerning that time is literally coming true, including that antichrist and his beast system…how is it even possible to think that we’d say “well everything about the end times is happening except we weren’t raptured…so we are just going to no longer believe in God or Jesus.. and just walk away from the faith…cause we have to suffer physically…may as as well take the mark and just be damned? What you have presented is a caricature and conjecture about pretribbers. What they believe. How they think. And how they’d react if they’re not raptured before Daniel’s Seventieth week. Also, the belief that Jesus could come for us at any moment causes us to strive to be readiness…calling us to ever increasing personal sanctification, and to be found by Him faithful n service to His kingdom. Certainly not a doctrine that lends itself to being lazy and slothful and feeding the flesh. That’s ridiculous. But, blessings to you too.

[@Docjam23]

Problem with "the last day" being a literal 24 hour day at the end.. you would have to go with the throne of judgement, as that is the last day before the eternal state (and I still don't believe the throne of judgement will be experienced as 1 24 hour day, there have been billions and billions of people, even if you decided each individual's fate in a second it'd take a long time, and we're told the accounting will be of every idle word over people's entire lifetimes). It is an argument that Amillennialists use. Because Armageddon, is not really the last day for a premillennialist, There's the millennial kingdom right after that so there are ... more days. So taking a post trib view of "the last day" ALSO has to treat it as not the exact last day, but just the end of the age. Now amillennialists will just say Jesus returns, boom, instant nuke everything in the universe then the throne of judgement which all happens in under 24 hours then eternal state, so it is "the last day" literally, it's the ONLY thing they take literally, and hyperliterally at that, as often "the day" or "the hour" is a figure of speech. I know you don't believe this, that you understand after Jesus comes, there will be events going on on Earth, and even after Armageddon the Earth is not instantly transformed, there's cleanup, and processes going on for years, so time marches on for many many days over 1000 years. The millennial kingdom is much more continuous with the current age aside from having a righteous ruler and no temptation from Satan and the government changes over to being ruled by the saints.

[@squirreljones3595]

No it's the last day of this old earth

[@FreddyPhatnutz-ue8yl]

I believe that Jesus clearly said in Bible that the tribulation of antichrist will be so horrible,God shortens the tribulation time to 5 month period! JESUS also saidthat he will not return until after that man of sin ,sits in the temple ,which he sould not! This means saten ,pretending to be Jesus will sit in the templ3 before True Jesus Christ comes to earth ! Its very clear! No one will be raptured until after saten has his short 5 month period here!❤amen 😊

[@pretribtruth]

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. The other issue is the reign of the AC. The AC kills the two witnesses just before the 7th trumpet. That would set the timing of the two witnesses and the AC reigns to be during the last 3 1/2 years. Since we know that the two witnesses testify for 3 1/2 years and the AC reign is 3 1/2 years this has to be at the "last day" at the last trump Rev 11:15. Peace, Seeker

[@FreddyPhatnutz-ue8yl]

You have got some things right, but most important is the wittnesses will only be on earth testifying for True God 👍 for a 5 month period! AS JESUS HIMSELF ,,SHORTENS THE 7 YEAR PERIOD ,BECAUSE IF HE DOES not shorten i no fleshly man would be saved! antichrist is that good of a charismatic conman, who can mindcontrol ,and preform miracles and wonders 90 % of this world will be deceived and take the mark of the beast! HE canot phsically hurt Gods elect ,but he will possess humans,or greatly influence them to try to hurt us. GOD WILL PLACE A SEAL IN OUR FOREHEADS SO WE CAN BE SAFEFROM SATANIC ATTACKS, If we keep on that full gospel Armour 🙏 🙌 And quite frankly God expects us to be smarter than the demons! All threw scripture is wisdom on how to protect ourselfs! GOD WILL DO THE REST, Keep the Faith ,repent and followcGods commanments! This is no time to fall short,resistcthe devil and he will flee from you!

[@Mike65809]

Well I believe the explanation is simple. The tribulation ends at the 6th seal. True. BUT Jesus does not return then. He returns "after the tribulation of those days..." Amen? We don't know how long after. Daniel does not say the world ends at the end of the 7 years. Therefore, there is time for the trumpets and bowls. That would mean the trumpets and bowls are not part of the Great Tribulation! What is part of it is seen in the 5th seal, the persecution of the saints. And it may very well be the seals prior to that are also part of it.

[@allenbrininstool7558]

You have your eschatology nailed, but I disagree with your soteriology. The last trumpet, the first resurrection on the last day. Salvation is a free gift purchased by Christ, NOT a reward for endurance or faithfulness. There are rewards for endurance which are described as crowns. I appreciate your passion, but don’t appreciate your characterization of free grace theology as doctrines of demons. Love you brother

[@MichaelThompson-qe2wg]

The music is terrible

[@dudleygordon6191]

Joel, you’re way too apologetic toward your pre wrath Brethren! In fact, so apologetic that you appear unsure about what you believe! Allen and David are fine people, but they don’t apologize for not being postTrib! I get it, I listen to them a lot, you don’t have to attack them and you don’t, but keep true to what you believe the scripture teaches! God bless you and your ministry! 👍🏻

[@ABM-x6h]

Joel, I agree with the chronology of the Trumpets, Thunders and Bowls coming after the sixth Seal. However, that same chronology also shows the Trumpets occur during the first half of Daniel's 70th week. The two witnesses are killed during the events of the sixth Trumpet (i.e., at the midpoint of Daniels 70th), which Chronologically must follow the events of the fifth Trumpet, which must follow the events of the 1st four Trumpets, which must follow the sealing of the 144,000, which follows the cosmic signs of the sixth seal. If the two witnesses are killed at the midpoint of Daniel's 70th week (i.e., after their 1,260 days ministry or 3.5 years) by the beast who then reigns for 42months (3.5 years), and if the two witnesses must begin their ministry before the wrath of G-D begins (Mal 4:5) (i.e. before the 1st four trumpets sound), then we know the first six Trumpets are sounded during the first half of Daniel's 70th week in parallel with the ministry of the two witnesses; and the wrath of G-D occurs over a timeframe of 7 years (first six Trumpets during the ministry of the two witnesses during the first half of Daniel's 70th week of years, which is followed by the reign of the beast empires for 42 months during the second half of Daniel's 70th week of years). We know the ministry of the two witnesses cannot overlap the 42 month reign of the beast because anyone who tries to kill them must be killed. In other words, the murder of the two witnesses, and the reign of the beast empires over every nation, kindred, and tongue, including Believers, cannot begin until the midpoint of Daniels 70th week (i.e., when the beast murders the two witnesses). Check it out! Jesus' comments in Matthew 24 were not referencing Daniels 70th week of years. Rather He was referencing the long term fulfillment of Dan 12. Let me know if you need more specific proof regarding when the continual taking away began the the historical event fulfilling the Abominiation of Desolation, how the previous ties to the rebirth of the nation of Israel, the holcaust, etc. ABM

[@darylm5944]

What's to prevent the beast from killing the witnesses right near the end of his 1260 day reign? The two witnesses could be in opposition to the beast during his reign.

[@ABM-x6h]

Hey Daryl, from Revelation 11:3-7 we know that anyone who tries to kill the two witnesses must be killed in the same manner. So we know the two witnesses are protected during their ministry and that the beast cannot hurt them (i.e., the beast does not have authority over the two witnesses until the end of their ministry). However, from Revelation 13:7, we know that during the 42-month reign of the beast empire, the beast is given authority to make war against the saints and to overcome them and that he was given authority over all kindreds, tongues and nations (i.e., everyone on the earth). Based on these two scriptures, I will argue that the 42-month “reign” of the beast empire cannot overlap the 1,260 day “ministry” of the two witnesses because the beast cannot touch the two witnesses during their ministry. Given the previous, the ministry of the two witnesses occurs for about 3.5 years (i.e., 1,260days). At the end of their ministry, the beast receives authority to rule and the first thing he does is to kill the two witnesses, which marks the beginning of his 42 month (i.e., 3.5 years) reign over the nations of the world. Chronologically, the following is how I believe it will play out. At the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week, the events first four trumpets are released. When the fifth trumpet is sounded and the angel fallen from Heaven (i.e., the satan) is given the key to the bottomless pit, he releases the demonic entities that compose the beast empire. These demons go throughout the earth tormenting those who do not have the seal of G-D. Because they cannot torment those with the seal of G-D, we know the reign of the beast empire has not begun. These demons will seek to possess the politicians, military leaders, the rich, the famous, etc. but they cannot touch the two witnessed or the 144,000 because thy have the seal of G-D. The two witnesses will torment the beast and frustrate his purposes repeatedly. When the sixth Trumpet is released, this demonically possessed beast empire will be allowed to compel humanity to engage in a war that results in the death of 1/3 of humanity. At the end of this war, the beast empire will be in control of the world, but not yet in control of the two witnesses nor of those who have the seal of G-D until the end of their 1,260 day ministry. When that day arrives, the beast (i.e., the satan, the demonic forces of hell who were released during the fifth Trumpet, and all of the people on the earth whom they have possessed) will kill the two witnesses. This marks the start of the 42month reign of the beast empire because the beast now has authority over “all” believers, including the two witnesses and those who have the seal of G-D. Note that the murder of the two witnesses is the last event of the sixth trumpet (Rev 11:7-14), which means the events of the sixth trumpet must occur prior to the midpoint of Daniel’s 70th week. However, the scripture says the sixth trumpet cannot be released until the fifth trumpet has been released (Rev 9:12-13). But the fifth trumpet cannot be released until the first four trumpets have been released (Rev 8:13 to 9:1). But the first four trumpets cannot be released until the 144,000 have been sealed (Rev 7:2-4). But the 144,000 are not sealed until after the events of the cosmic signs (Rev 7:1) and the great gathering in Heaven, which includes the raptured Believers. The bottom line is the chronology established in the scripture clearly shows the rapture occurring immediately preceding the start of Daniel’s 70th week of years and the events of the first six trumpets occurring during the first half of Daniel’s 70th week of years during the timeframe that the two witnesses are ministering. BTW, the events of the 7th Trumpet include the 7 Bowls of G-D's wrath and they will not be released until after the 42 month reign of the beast empire has completed. ABM

[@TheRgordon16]

The pre-trib doctrine is utter garbage. But I don’t know why you persist in ignoring Isaiah 26:19-20 which is also a problem for the post trib view. There is a resurrection and then the resurrected are told to HIDE until God’s wrath passes by. It puts the rapture BEFORE the wrath of God not after the wrath of God. It supports the pre wrath rapture view.

[@cjohn316]

The world is about to see what’s about that shit

[@tomschumacher9359]

There are three harvests... 1 - Barley Harvest - The Pre-trib rapture of the bride of Christ 2 - Wheat Harvest - the tribulation saints who are martyrd for Jesus 3 - Grape Harvest - the Apocalypse when the chaff is burned up and when the great winepress of God's wrath at the end of the tribulation Good Lord please don't miss the rapture for this world...

[@Post-Trib]

Got actual scripture to back this up?

[@tomschumacher9359]

@@Post-Trib Yes, the Entire Bible clearly reveals this...

[@Post-Trib]

@@tomschumacher9359 no. Your opinion does this. You obviously don't have any scripture that demonstrates your opinion

[@tomschumacher9359]

@@Post-Trib Are you going to be harvested at the beginning - Barley, middle - Wheat or at the end of the tribulation - Grapes???

[@Post-Trib]

@@tomschumacher9359 Jesus himself stated that the 1st resurrection or rapture of the dead is immediately after the tribulation of those days and not before. Paul said that it's at the last trumpet 🎺. Revelation speaks of 7 trumpets 🎺. The last trumpet 🎺 is the 7th trumpet 🎺

[@jayfrog5557]

The most tight God is ill Elylon. Jesus Father... Not yahweh

[@YehovaSapavovt.HolyOneOfIsraeL]

who is he to speak and have his words fulfilled, If The YEHOVA ELoHIM Has Not Commanded? ~ Lamentations Jeremiah 3:37 HIS NOT: lord god mod jesus mesus: They Will Call On MY NAME, And I Will ANSWER Them: I Will Say, ‘They Are MY People,’ And They Will Say, The YEHOVA Is Our ELoHIM. ~ Zechariah 13:9 HIS Name Is “YEHOVA SAPAVOVT:” HIS ELoHIM The Most HigH Our Mighty Creator: Glory To The Alpha And Omega: Glory In The Highest Our ELoHIM And Savior: Glory To The Lion Of Judah: Praise YAH, YEHOVA, HalleluYAH: Moreover Most HigH Said To Moses, “ Thus You Shall Say To The Children Of Israel: ‘ The YEHOVA ELoHIM Of Your Fathers, The ELoHIM Of Abraham, The ELoHIM Of Isaac, And The ELoHIM Of Jacob, Has Sent Me To You. This Is MY NAME Forever, And This Is MY Memorial To All Generations. ~ Exodus 3:15 Because He Has Affection For ME, I Will Rescue Him. I Will Protect Him Because He Knows MY NAME. ~ Psalm 91:14 The Wise Will See YOUR NAME; ~ Micah 6:9 Be Proud Of HIS Holy Name: ~ Psalm 105:3 “You Must Not Take Up The Name Of YEHOVA Your EloHIM In A Worthless Way, For YEHOVA Will Not Leave Unpunished The One Who Takes Up HIS Name In A Worthless Way.” ~ Exodus 20:7 I Have Been "YEHOVA" Your CreatoR Ever Since The Land Of Egypt; You Know No CreatoR But ME, And No SavioR Exists Besides ME. ~ Hosea 13:4 And Everyone Who Calls On The Name Of YEHOVA Will Be Saved.”’ ~ Acts 2:21 There Is No One Who Calls YOUR NAME; To Wake Up And Find Strength In YOU. ~ Isaiah 64:7 YEHOVA Is The Same Forever: ELOHIM NAME Can’t Translated: >Names Never Translate. Your Name Is The Same In Every Language In The World.

[@williamverdell8856]

U are still wrong everything doesn't happen in seven years once the seven year period begins.

[@brendamartin3444]

Could you share your timeline, I would sincerely like to see and understand…

[@williamverdell8856]

@@brendamartin3444 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnbGg6mEa9Cqpqcsi=fknAlMCC1MAzLu8t This is my timeline I hope it bless u the major difference is the wrath of God and the wrath of the Lamb, they both happen after the seven year period is over, this is a game changer, it changes so many things that are not being taught. My voice is ruff but it's much better on my 5 videos on KZbin under the title. Pt1 the pre wrath rapture and the third coming of Jesus. To find the next video just type in what part your looking for like pt2 pt3 ECT and then type in the rest of the title. Feel free to ask me questions God bless.