Fake gramophone - tonearm fix

[@davidk6271]

Very interesting. I’ve long thought a little more effort in the construction of these things would make a big difference. Thanks for posting.

[@mrrgstuff]

Yes, I don't think they are really made to be played, even the vendor's descriptions on ebay suggest they are more decorative pieces with moving parts, than actual practical players. Having said that I'm sure they can be reengineered into something usable. At the moment I am just doing a few quick fixes, but may find the time to properly sort it out. Thanks 😀 👍

[@stevejohnman68]

Mine plays .i was rideculed in a facebook group told crap and would never play.

[@CletusHunnicutt]

Mine has a heavier brass tonearm that sits straight. I have seen this version, with a smaller horn too, on ebay more recently and I'm kind of shocked at how they sit on the record. It doesn't help that they place it on the opposite side of the record, ready to dig into the grooves head-on. I bought the thing in the year 2000. I've had a lot of fun with it. My drunken friends 20 years ago had a good laugh at it too. I don't regret buying at all. EDIT: Wow! Mine isn't made like this at all. Mine is MUCH "higher quality" LOLOL and made by someone who at least cared.

[@mrrgstuff]

There are quite a few variations, but I don't think I have seen one with a straight tonearm. These were certainly a thing in the past, like on this machine: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHXTpH2Bba9qjbMsi=MoPuFnvde313Ftxn Fakes seem to be 100% new parts now but have incorporated real parts in the past. You might like this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmSpgmR8ZZiEi6ssi=zN94jpXpsxdSeqMU Thanks 😀 👍

[@tiga4180]

All goes to show how badly these fakes are made & also that relatively simple measures can make them into playable machines. Have seen worse tracking on some & looks like just a little lengthening of the tone arm will do the trick. Are you sure the record is that old? Sounds like an electrical recording, or at least a very late acoustic. Columbia records have a tiny embossed 'w' in the runout area, denoting 'Western Electric Process. Is there some kind of pivot in that soundbox? Doesn't sound too bad. Some of these fakes have no pivot & getting the vibrations to the diaphragm is left to chance.

[@mrrgstuff]

Yes, they are not really made to be played, and I think many people who do try them are happy to assume that people of the time were happy to accept a very poor musical experience, not realising that a proper gramophone sounds much better. At the minute I am mainly doing a few quick fixes on this machine, but may find time to properly reengineer it in future. You are right about the record, thanks. I was going on the information on 45worlds.com, which I can only assume manages to mix up a genuine 1915 record with what is presumably an electrical re-recording as it does have the embossed 'w'. Not looked in the soundbox yet, but it will be probably the next video. I'll find some proper accoustic recordings and also clarify that this record was electric. Thanks 😀 👍

[@Huo-Heatergun]

heres a fact to spot a fake gramophone: its part of the horn in the back can be squished and the crank is not real wood and the thing that we might talked about a bit the horn.. yes its made of brass and the soundbox doesnt movev smoothly and its not supposed to move like i dont know how to explain but its supposed to move only right and left and fake one moves back if am correct and the decoration on the box is not real either its like made with a tape

[@tiga4180]

@@Huo-Heatergun THanks, the more who know how to avoid fakes the better. I have one, but more as a 'black museum' exhibit & its quirky appearance! I bought it direct, so was not duped into believing it was the real thing.

[@Huo-Heatergun]

oh alright

[@TKELCH]

The phonograph is made in India. They should have spent a little more time on their design to make it look and function better.

[@mrrgstuff]

Yes indeed. They are not really being sold for use, more as decorators pieces, however with a little adjustment they will play records. As for looks, compared to the real thing they look poor, however they sufficiently meet the general public's expectation of what a machine should look like and I have seen them used in films and TV series. Here in the UK, you almost never see a genuine horn machine anywhere. Thanks 😀 👍

[@TKELCH]

@@mrrgstuff I like the horn elbow on yours better than the ones that I have. The 2 that I picked up for $40 dollars will play, as you noted with a little adjusting. Good to hear from You!

[@mrrgstuff]

I don't know if you saw but I had to do a little repair on the horn elbow of my fake machine: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZCpaIuLqrR8bJo The curved pipe of the originals seem stronger. Thanks 😀 👍

[@stevejohnman68]

I recently got one same as this which i assumed was purely decorative, but when i saw it hard internal workings i decided to have a fiddle just so could hear it playing. I do not realy hope to be able to listen it like i would my modern players! I joined a gramophone face book group for info but just got ridiculed with comments like rubbish and will never play. Well it does play ! even with a massive across the one record that came with it. Thanks for your thoughts on the tone arm , will continue to fiddle and get it set up a little better. And get few records to try. Im only doing this because i love fiddling and ive always been fascinated with records and how they work!

[@mrrgstuff]

Glad you enjoyed the video 😀. Yes, they usually can be made to play, though quality control from the suppliers only really seems to extend to making sure the platter revolves. Usually, they spin much too fast! Unfortunately, they are pretty much derided by the community. However, some of us do make room for them and have fun making them play! This is my playlist of my fake machines and what I have done with them: My fake gramophones: kzbin.info/aero/PLsCYUbO6xxnSQxENr28Cg05DiRuC5O47w Hope you have fun with yours! Thanks 👍 😀

[@stevejohnman68]

​@@mrrgstuffgives me a buzz hearing it play even if only replica! I think tone arm sits way to heavy on record its working mire like a lathe at the moment! Need to work out how to lift it a bit. More fiddling i guess.

[@mrrgstuff]

@@stevejohnman68 Yes, the tracking is very heavy, though I have not actually measured it. Back in the later days of the gramophone era, some people used counterweights, but I suspect many records were just worn out by poorly designed machines.

[@realgroovy24]

Next thing I would do is change the soundbox, those cheap ones are terrible, then sort out the platter wobble. But, probably not worth it for a reproduction unless you're using it often.

[@mrrgstuff]

Yes, will be looking at the soundbox next. I have quite a collection I could use, but want to have a look at how this one is constructed too. The platter wobble is causing me some problems though. I can measure it and have had a few attempts at fixing it, but no luck so far. I don't plan on using this machine much, but would like to get it usable. Thanks 😀 👍

[@iltabarin5897]

my original gramophone also has a shorter arm, about 2.5 cm away from the pin

[@mrrgstuff]

Some original machines were very poorly designed as the manufacturer either didn't know or didn't care about how they would affect the record. 2.5cm is quite a lot though, so it may be worth checking to see if the arm has been replaced at some time. Thanks 😀 👍

[@iltabarin5897]

@@mrrgstuff it's also a hmv, I don't know. I also saw another similar model and it had the same defect

[@mrrgstuff]

Fair enough. Sounds like that was just the way it was designed.

[@jonlewislive]

Do you think with a original sound Box and a bit of tinkering this could sound as good as an original?

[@mrrgstuff]

I think probably it could. I haven't achieved that yet, though I did a straight comparison between a fake and a real one here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z5_dl42ph9Z5a8k I've also done a playlist of things I have done on my fake, too: My fake gramophones: kzbin.info/aero/PLsCYUbO6xxnSQxENr28Cg05DiRuC5O47w It is entirely possible to fit a different soundbox, though some will be easier than others. There are a few other areas which can be improved on it. If I get a chance, I'll make a video going through the whole machine and what might be done to improve it. Thanks 😀 👍

[@jonlewislive]

@@mrrgstuff Thank you 😊

[@TaiTran-ds2vs]

I have a Victrola J1-50, with the sound tube removed. But I don't remember how to reinstall the bearings in order. The sound tube also lost its marbles. I wonder what the original marbles' size was in mm? the marbles were worn out a long time ago. can you help me? Thank you very much.

[@TaiTran-ds2vs]

How can I contact you via facebook, so I can send pictures. thanks a lot.

[@mrrgstuff]

I'm not on Facebook but you can email me. My address is listed in my channel's about section. You may need to look via a browser. I don't think it shows up on the phone app. Having said that, I don't think I can really help you with this. The machine is a Japanese one from around 1930, but I am not familiar with it at all. You could try asking on thetalkingmachine forum. Thanks 😀 👍

[@jhonwask]

I had one of those crap-o-phones, purchased to see how it works. . I tried many things to get it to play well; it never did. It's been disposed.

[@mrrgstuff]

They certainly have many faults, though I find them fun and interesting to play with. It would be nice to have a proper external horn machine, but so far I have not found one at a price I can afford. I really shouldn't buy any more internal horn machines as I am out of space 🤔😉😅. Thanks 😀 👍

[@jhonwask]

@@mrrgstuff Good luck! You will find a machine. It took me a few years and a few auctions to finally get my Victor horn machines. I recently got the Victor O, but it needs to have the motor rebuilt. Summer job.

[@mrrgstuff]

Thanks 😀 👍

[@jhonwask]

@@mrrgstuff Have faith; you will find one. By the way, I had two crap-o-phones; one with the horn attached to the travel arm and one with the tapered tone arm all with the lovely brass. I have since acquired many external horn machines from sellers on eBay. Good luck finding one and make a video when you get one. Thanks.

[@mrrgstuff]

Thanks 😀 👍. I was at a collectors fair last week, and could actually have bought one, they were the cheapest I have seen, but still rather more than the cash I had brought. Anyway did pick up lots of nice stuff which will feature in a future video.

[@microbi46]

Do you have discovered which is the real function of the nut in the tonearm long screw? Should be it put up or down?

[@mrrgstuff]

I think there really should be 2 nuts as I think there should be one supporting the tonearm and also at the bottom next to the bracket. I think I used 2 pairs of locking nuts, though it was a pain to get them all on the screw thread. Thanks 😀 👍

[@microbi46]

@@mrrgstuff Thanks, for the information. The problem with the nuts is that in the upper or lower part, sometimes cause the tonearm lock. At the moment I put only one nut in the upper part and every record I play, O adjust it again because of vibrations and tonearm movement the nut goes down. I will try to get more nuts to experiment….👍

[@notsomething7561]

I see a TON of these fakes on the market. In fact, the only genuine gramophones that I've found are later portable models. Is there any place you could recommend, or direction you might point me in, that offers real gramophones with horns?

[@mrrgstuff]

Good question, though at least where I am (UK), you almost never see a genuine horn gramophone for sale. I was at RetroTechUK last year and did see some there, though you might see from my haul video that I didn't buy one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m5W9pGN8iNiLhsU It might be worth you joining The Talking Machine Forum (forum.talkingmachine.info/viewforum.php?f=1) and I know there is a big Facebook group of gramophone enthusiasts though I am not on Facebook myself. Good luck 👍

[@notsomething7561]

@@mrrgstuff Much appreciated, thank you! I'll reach out to those communities.

[@anythingoldmechanical]

Well done. Why is the turntable all buckled please?

[@mrrgstuff]

Thanks 👍 😀. These fake machines are only really intended for decoration. Being able to play a record is very secondary 🤣, so quality control is poor. I have managed to straighten the turntable on this one. This video shows how: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5DIlJt6l8R7msk 😀

[@stevejohnman68]

I​@@mrrgstuffwhat i dont realy understand about these if intended as decoration only why did they put a working motor in them? Would have just made manufacture cost much higher! Why they didnt improve them slightly into playable machines i dont know?

[@mrrgstuff]

@stevejohnman68 It's a good point and I can only speculate. I think India never really stopped making gramophones. Less and less people cared whether they could actually play a record all the way through and they became decoration pieces. They still fit motors, partly because they always have, and partly because people do like to demonstrate these machines. If there was enough demand, I think we would start seeing better quality machines, and indeed, there are some signs of this happening with some of the machines I have seen online.

[@eggrider6420]

Could this problem happen on a tonearm of an inside-horn portable gramophone?

[@mrrgstuff]

It could, but usually for a different reason. In the case of this machine, the tonearm is poorly constructed. On a genuine vintage machine the tonearm was probably OK when made, but some were made of a type of alloy known as 'pot metal', which swells over time causing the joint to jam up. It could also just be dried up lubricant in the joint. What machine is it? Thanks 😀 👍

[@Mrpurple75]

Splendid!

[@mrrgstuff]

Thanks 😀 👍

[@terrycard6775]

Nice video mate.Very interesting 👍.

[@mrrgstuff]

Thanks 😀 👍

[@Mrpurple75]

I know I’ve asked before but what video editor do you use?

[@mrrgstuff]

I use Olive 0.1 which is free and very lightweight. It does have a few bugs but I have learnt to avoid them. Olive 0.2 has been in development for a good couple of years now, but looks to be more complicated and I haven't moved over to it yet. 😅. Thanks 😀 👍

[@Mrpurple75]

@@mrrgstuff my wife thanks you

[@mrrgstuff]

@@Mrpurple75 Can't seem to find your last comment, however I have seen a comment from him today.

[@athomas5621]

Sufia Handi crafts Lal kuon chowri Bazar old Delhi, They Manufacturing Gramophone parts, & Have original spare parts.

[@Huo-Heatergun]

i can tell this fake gramophone is like made from the 1900s right? cause i can tell its really old

[@mrrgstuff]

Not sure how old this fake is. Somewhere in the last 50 years I would say. It may have been made to look older than it actually is, or just stored in an outbuilding or attic 🤔. Thanks 👍 😀

[@Huo-Heatergun]

oh alright no problem 😀

[@AlbertBenajam-ww1db]

These Kraap-0-Phonies are made for looks, and thats OK for that. The sad thing is folks who think these were the way it was then. Oddly enough when I was 5or6 (1951 or 195 I received gift Kid phonographs. Both were very similar, electric motored for 7inch kid 78s only. But there were 2 differences in contruction that made all the dirrerence in performance. One had a tone arm that was a piece of plastic 🎉hollow tube L shapped going into small suitcase. There was nothing inside, and sound escaped from holes on font of bos. HORRID, MULLED LOW VOLUME. 😢 The other the same, but with a proper tone arm shape, and a plastic retangular horn came to the front. 😊 SOUND LIAD AND CLEAR. Years later arond 15 looked at both. All parts were plastic,, even sound box, but tone arm taper and yinch horn made HUGE difference.

[@mrrgstuff]

Yes, those fakes are so regularly seen on television and in films that many people assume they are the real thing. It's interesting also what you say about the toy gramophones. I have several, but I don't think any of them have proper internal horns. I will have to investigate further. Thanks 😀 👍

[@medeiros639]

Hello my friend very Good

[@mrrgstuff]

Thanks 😀 👍

[@GrandadIsAnOldMan]

If you can't fix it with a bit of electrical tape then the obvious answer is duct tape 😆😆👍👍

[@mrrgstuff]

Indeed 😉 😅. Thanks 😀 👍

[@Mrpurple75]

I’m disappointed that no bailing wire was used

[@jean-paul7251]

What a piece of crap. Throw it away

[@mrrgstuff]

They are pretty bad the way they are built. I do find it interesting and a challenge to fix the various faults 😉😅

[@mexican_pelican9238]

looks nice in my opinion, fits my room just nicely