FAKE IT OR GET A RERELEASE? Deep Diving The Tamiya Top Force Evo! Family History, What’s Different.

[@kjoer]

Concerning the diffs, as far as I remember, the diffs were equal to the original Top-Force, but using aluminum "pressure plates", as Tamiya would call them. The Evo diffs were extremely light. The video Tamiya released, implicates the re-release will get these aluminum pressure plates as well. The original 58100 Top-Force had no one-way, but the Evo had a one-way gear setup in the transmission. Racers pretty much always used the Evo one-way gear setup, even before the Evo was released, as a Hop-Up (53071). Tamiya called it a Torque-Splitter, but in the racing community this was always referred to as an one-way. So there might be a bit of confusion there. I don't recall any off-road racers ever running the 53200 one-way diff. In fact, I didn't even know the one-way diff Hop-Up existed. 53200 appears to be a spool with one-way action, which seems more like a typical racing touring car thing. Not something people would use in off-road, we would use a normal ball diff with the one-way bevel + idler gear setup (again, referred to by Tamiya as a Torque-Splitter). The Evo suspension ball studs were 6mm (vs 5mm), but made from aluminum, also extremely light. The whole Evo was extremely light, it would get in under the 1588 gram race minimum weight limit easily. The only mods people generally did to the Evo, was to run an aluminum motor mount, instead of the plastic one, for durability. We also replaced the plastic spur/aluminum idler gear combo in the rear gearbox with a full plastic one, since the aluminum gears were very prone to wear. People also always ran aftermarket steel motor pinions (reduced wear), instead of aluminum Tamiya pinions. We obviously ran saddle-packs instead of stick packs, for better weight distribution, using Schumacher straps to hold the packs (note: you need to slightly wet-file the edges of the slots for this to create chamfers for the Sub-C cells to sit in). I ran the car using a custom made anti-squad mod as well, which also helped with bumps to some extent. The platform was decent in '90-'91-'92 in all forms for racing, but started falling behind greatly from 1993 on-wards. Also, the materials Tamiya used at the time, were very, very sensitive to wear, when compared to full race brands. After having raced my Evo, when I sold it as a 16yo student at the end of 1994, I was sad to learn the new owner abused my old car on a BMX track, basically bashing it to death :(. I kep the titanium screws to use in my CAT 2000 at the time, but the quality of the titanium wasn't that great, when for instance, compared to Lunsford after market titanium parts. Pre-ordered an Evo immediately yesterday morning , even tho I have a standard Top-Force re-re with upgrades NiB, which I had originally planned to make a fake Evo of at some point. In hindsight, I should have just waited. Derp.

[@bigtankcommander]

Hahah. That was the response I wanted to write but you've done it better. Great vid, great comment. Thanks all.

[@jamaristetson1238]

you all probably dont care at all but does someone know of a method to get back into an instagram account?? I was dumb forgot my password. I love any tips you can offer me!

[@caidencristiano2178]

@Jamari Stetson Instablaster ;)

[@jamaristetson1238]

@Caiden Cristiano I really appreciate your reply. I found the site on google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@jamaristetson1238]

@Caiden Cristiano It did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy! Thank you so much you saved my account !

[@markbruton-young9228]

top tip - Trim titanium the screws down with a dremel or a bench grinder (watch the sparks fly), leave the metal nut on when you do, as when it comes off it will slighly re-cut the thread on the end of the bolt for you. Also you would need to file a tiny chamfer on the end of the bolt, so any new nuts go back on properly.

[@EduardoPortasRuiz]

"Toys they're not". They really took that classic Tamiya slogan to heart with the new Evo price.

[@fredriktingelof687]

Hi. Like the content of your channel. I can answer someone's questions. Both me and my brother competed with Top Force cars. I drove a TF evo and my brother a (regular) Top Force. We won some trophies both at club level and nationally in Sweden. The Top Force chassis works best when it can be set a little high and soft or on smooth tracks where it can be set low. Only negative is that it lacks slip clutch and the fixed pinion positions. Tough killer courses with many really high jumps are hard to be competitive on. can also say that that one-way diff belongs to touring cars. TF evo came with a power splitter that sits in the front gearbox. evon has ball diff front and rear but with other pressure plates (lightweight)

[@RCKickschannel]

Thanks for the info Fredrik, it's great to hear from someone who experienced the car first hand back in the day.

[@TachyonDriver]

Childhood?? Childhood? Gavin, I was born in '66 and was happily married (still am!) when I bought that Manta Ray & took it racing. My inner child has lots of great memories yes! :D Looking forward to seeing the restoration feature, many thanks! Glad it could feature as the Top Force ancestor.

[@KaizerTest]

So well researched Gavin! Love the history. 😃 I have the Top Force...may get an Evo. Really these cars were expensive back in the day too so I'm not complaining. Just enjoy while we can. 😎

[@dennisnothstein1311]

I used to race my Blackfoot and my brother raced the monster beetle. I remember as a kid in the mid 80's the races were every Wednesday night at rollerskating rink, my brother and I used to come in 3rd and 4th place behind a father and son that raced. The father owned the local hobby shop so him and his son had the best stuff. I remember they converted rc 10's to monster trucks to race in the truck class and me and my brother's tamiyas just couldn't keep up with them. I wish I still had that truck. I lost that and my Stryker in one of my moves after getting married and divorced. Oh well,one day I will replace them.

[@MarJay1980]

I was hoping you might go on a bit of a tangent and explain that the TA01 chassis was basically a Manta Ray DF-01 with shorter suspension arms to make a fantastic on/off road capable rally car. This then evolved into the TA02 which is a shorter version with swept back rear arms and body mounts and so has an indentical wheelbase. I guess this means the DF01, Top Force, Terra Conqueror, Top Force Neo, TA01, TA02 etc all use the same front and rear gearboxes. Tamiya REALLY got their moneys worth with that, especially with the re-re's of the aforementioned buggies and the TA02 and TA02S models in their current lineup. They must have been very confident in the quality of those gearboxes!

[@L71studios]

Great point! Though, I think that it speaks to the price gouging for this kit as well. Those gearboxes have been on so many different models from Tamiya and are going to be used again on the upcoming Calibra. They’re also readily available as spare parts at quite reasonable prices. So, Tamiya *are* producing them at scale, yet somehow, they seem to command a 20% price hike when in a TFE kit...? 🤔 Having now ranted... One of Tamiya’s most enduring chassis families for sure and it was cool of you to point that out.

[@blasphemyjg]

The Evo used the Manta ray torque splitter not a one way diff

[@grandmasteryoda8588]

Hey you guys know where to buy parts for tamiya cars in the us for the TT 02

[@grandmasteryoda8588]

@Bas bzb thanks

[@sonny_z900]

I pre-ordered mine for €369.99 ex s&h, the only reason I want it is to complete my range of the tf family (58100, 58362, 47350), I had already bought the 58100 in the day and wanted it because it was number 100. The 58107 was too expensive as a youngster, now I can have a similar car as the og. I like the one-way diff in my TF, traction of a 4wd and during braking a 2wd feel in corners. I only raced once with my vanquish against team losi and kyosho zx in a mixed class, all stock and won 1st place.

[@paulboyes283]

I remember my manta Ray back then, had races round my road, was a fantastic buggy, hoping new top force holds up to that.

[@vwhelmot]

That one way diff you’ve bought will not work with the top force ball differentials. It’s for geared diffs only. The Evo came with lightweight diff plates and a one way bearing in the front gearbox. The lightweight diffs were also available as an option for the standard TF but fairly difficult to find now.

[@RCKickschannel]

Thanks for the info :)

[@rccars4all]

where do you buy your aftermarket stickers from as looking for some for a kyosho inferno

[@catxls1835]

Great Video Gavin. I am sure the re-re has ball differentials my friend. The new one also has some special reflective decals???? ETA 11/05/21. Thumbs

[@ianwinpenny1857]

Great Video and would like to get my hands on this new Top Force EVO. With respect to the diffs. I have recently built a 2017 top force and both diffs are the same and have looked at the original Tamiya Top Force EVO kit manual and it looks the same. Do you know if it is possible to fit the one way diff into a standard Top Force build ?

[@RCKickschannel]

As far as I know yes.

[@virtious8]

How times have changed. I had the original green Top Force and used it for what it was designed for. I raced it at clubs, experimenting with different setups, trying to improve my lap times etc. I suspect most of these re-released kits will never leave the box and the ones that do get built will live in a display cabinet and never turn a wheel in anger.

[@nickrobertson2450]

Nice summary thank for that. Now I have a better idea what I've pre ordered. Lol

[@Houleigan]

I just want a Top Force, it just a bonus that it's a EVO

[@soma_rc]

Length: 400 mm, width: 250 mm, height: 190 mm aerodynamic and lightweight polycarbonate body and rear spoiler, already pre-painted and cut out, chassis plate and upper deck made of carbon 4WD drive via cardan shaft with aluminum diff at the front and ball differential at the rear. High-capacity dampers made of aluminum at the front and rear, including additional freewheel 5-spoke racing rims with multipin tires Tamiya TA-53791 cardan shafts at the front and rear

[@68phantom228]

i stil have my now vintage top force evolution stil running it but now whit a bruchless setup

[@markscotchford4159]

Excellent. Good bit of research as well. Being out of work and having no money your videos are still super. Which do you think is the best 4wd Tamiya buggy and why? I thought you'd say this Top Force Evo but now I'm not sure. I know best is different things to different people but would still like to know.

[@RCKickschannel]

Sorry to hear that Mark, keep your head up over this difficult period. Best 4WD buggy, wow thats a big questions! Looks would be TF Evo, Turbo Optima, Avante or Egress. To drive, I would go with Kyosho TOMS or Tenth Tech's, X10. Nostalgia, would be Hotshot and full bashing would be the Traxxas X-maxx.

[@RCBirds]

Cool video. You filled up my knowledge gap about this family. I maybe wrong, but wasn't the first Manta Ray chassis called TA-01 innthe 90s?

[@nc-witcher9760]

I still have a Blazing Star which I am going to keep in perfect condition. It was my late Wife's car she used to race with me and my boys. So I want to get a somewhat matching top force evo just for me :)

[@originalrcfun7368]

And every one seems to forget about the Terra Conqueror. A great df01 version. Nice motor in the box, turn buckles, 6mm balls, hardened drive shafts, and propeller shaft, hex hing pins, full ball bearings, great looking body (TF looks hidious in my opinion) evo wheels and tires, e-clip hing pins all around. You can basicly put an esc in it and race it.

[@RCKickschannel]

Yes the Terra Conqueror is a special kit for sure and like you say, it doesn't get the recognition you would expect from a kit that comes with that level of spec out the box. I'm a big fan and so chuffed I just about managed to get a NIB one to build on the show without selling a kidney.

[@richardbonch]

Do we have any clue if the Egress will be Re released this year? Of the two, the EVO vs Egress, which would you choose? I have an Avante RE Release and a Top Force with HiCaps.. EVO feels a bit too similar to the TopForce to justify nearly 400 big ones.

[@RCKickschannel]

Egress reissue will be later in the year. I would guess the second half of the year to give the Evo a chance to sell as many units as possible first.

[@L71studios]

It’s really not as difficult to build up a TFE as this video tries to purport, it’s certainly not cheap, but less than an original for sure. Download the TFE manual and go from there. The “Parts” section tells you all you need to know. It used to be easier to get “original” Ti screws from Tamiya some years back which covered all the TFE screws that you could need, but they’re harder to find these days. If you absolutely must have Tamiya, they make lots of different sets of Ti screws that would cover the majority needed for a TFE. But aftermarket there a heaps of companies making them. As others have mentioned in these comments, the TFE used what Tamiya called a “one way gear”, which was used in place of the front counter gear. Different to what was shown in the video. Hardest thing to get? The grey 6mm adjusters. But mine uses blue ones like an Egress, because they look cool. And I’ve got to say that anyone that I’ve met that’s done this has only ever referred to their “TFE” as a tribute, not a one has tried to pass it off as an original.

[@JVGmidi]

The manta ray later I had an aluminium mount and lots of hop ups steel shafts balldiffs and a Novak esc reedy 10t motor it went like ballistic.

[@paulrobinson9355]

Great video as always! I'm on the fence between a Evo rere or Vanquish rere......totally undecided. I have a Top Force and and I have an Avante.....just can't make my mind up! 🤔

[@chrism5525]

Great video, I could be wrong but I didn't think the Top Force Evo had a one way front diff. I think it is the shaft above the front diff that has a one way bearing in it. Similar to the Manta Ray torque splitter which is what I used to race in my modified Manta Ray. Your fake evo looks like it has a knackered or loose ball diff.

[@TachyonDriver]

Gavin! I don't know about the prices for a resto job on my old Manta Ray, but please give it a bit of a thrash when you complete the project (assuming you're not selling a kidney to fix the buggy!). Cheers! Mark.

[@JVGmidi]

I like the Tamiya cars but my first race in 1995 with a manta ray it couldn’t handle the track because it doesn’t have a slipper clutch. I went third anyway.

[@kevinjhonson5925]

i want a Hi-lux monster racer rerelease I have my old one i had as a kid I would restore it but the list of parts I need is insane It would just cost to much. I just want to build a new one and put it on the shelf so many memories for me. I can find them on ebay NIB for around $2000 cnd no way im paying that. I keep dreaming i will stumble across one in a flemarket dirt cheep.

[@KamalNsouli]

Hi Gav, super video! Why no mention of the Hummer? Wasn't that on the same chassis as well?

[@MarJay1980]

That's a TA01 I think which would have sent him down a whole different rabbit hole... as I mentioned in my comment above. I have a Toyota Celica GT Four which is the first TA01 model produced, it's awesome. I'm restoring it right now. The TA01 is basically a DF01 with shorter suspension arms.

[@KamalNsouli]

@@MarJay1980 He mentioned the Repsol Lancer though, which is identical to the Hummer except for the shell.

[@MarJay1980]

@@KamalNsouli The Repsol Lancer must be wider because Tamiyabase says its a DF01 not a TA01 or TA02. It's a buggy not touring car chassis.

[@KamalNsouli]

@@MarJay1980 By golly you're right! I had always assumed the Hummer and the Repsol shared the same chassis. Thank you for the correction, and I guess we learn something every day :)

[@GTMQ8]

Where can I preorder one, Gavin? I’m sure you’ve seen my posts on RCKicks FB I have a history with the EVO. I have raced it a couple of times before selling it and I know for a fact it’s still with the person who bought it from me...unfortunately he changed a lot of parts in it including the wheels the chassis is the only thing that’s left of the car I sold him. I have always wanted to get one back so I’m definitely interested in the rere Top Force EVO.

[@andyrobinsonrc2480]

You can preorder the kit from modelsport ;)

[@GTMQ8]

@@andyrobinsonrc2480 Thanks. Seems like it’s not available or sold out as of now.

[@RCKickschannel]

L&Lmodels, Time Tunnel, Tamico, Modelsport. All good vendors

[@GTMQ8]

@@RCKickschannel Thank you.

[@The_Absurdistt]

RCmart posted a pre-order for 1 day at one price and then increased the pre-order price by $60 dollars the next day... I never thought they would become scalpers too... shameful.

[@alangt4769]

I also have a top force and a almost top force evolution bar a couple of the Ti screws. Still preordered the evo tho!- hope it has the alloy motor Mount. Shame the motor is stock silver can rather than an evo badged GT tuned motor.

[@RCKickschannel]

I think Tamiya is missing a truck on the kit motors. It was a good idea and popular to have a motor branded with the car and the year.

[@alangt4769]

@@RCKickschannel yeah definitely

[@mitamiyaguyrc7825]

You mentioned in a previous video that the Egress was being rereleased this year as well. I’ve not seen that, is that because they are just producing another batch of them or is it not coming after all?

[@RCKickschannel]

It's just reissue not a release. It will be coming later in the year.

[@nathanjenkyn3127]

Top Force Evo's are nice and all, but have you seen an original early 90's stadium truck, Associated RC10T or the like...WOW!!! I also would be greatful if you could suggest where to pre-order an EVO (if they'll haven't already all gone). Thanks.

[@RCKickschannel]

I have a Dyna Blaster and that's an epic stadium truck.

[@costasgt]

Based on the new promo video there will be alu diffs.

[@alfredyost7972]

Hi Gavin, I finally got my car today. I live in the USA. I was beginning to think that I might not be able to get one. It looks like the UK got the first shipments. Lucky guys. Thoughts?

[@RCKickschannel]

It’s a bit random as it feels like each country gets something just not all the same lol. USA got the Thunder Dragon but the Uk still doesn’t have it. UK got the Evo and now finally the Quadtrack.

[@alfredyost7972]

@@RCKickschannel I agree it does feel a bit random. I wonder why? If I want to buy extra parts for this car I can get them out of the UK, but not here. I am looking for some titanium screws for this car. I tried going to L&L in the UK. They are sold out. I did find something in Germany. Maybe I should wait to see if Tamiya might release a screw set for this car? Thoughts?

[@RCKickschannel]

@@alfredyost7972 I was told the screws are back in stock today at L&LModels.

[@alfredyost7972]

@@RCKickschannel Yes, I got an email today that they are back in stock. I just ordered them. Thank You.

[@hunterzero2634]

I thought that the TF Evolution used front and rear ball diffs with lightweight diff plates, and center one way in the front gearbox bevel gear. It doesn't use the front one way diff.

[@RCKickschannel]

I need to open my vintage Evo up and take a look. I can’t find anything on the 2021 Evo diffs.

[@hunterzero2634]

@@RCKickschannel Yes will be interesting to see if the Evo retains the drivetrain changes

[@brucebenner7606]

do u think they rerelease the vintage motors? ????

[@brucebenner7606]

@Comic Lover technigold motor or technipower

[@patricksadler3587]

Gavin if you could only buy one car this year would you get the egress or the top force evo please help 👍

[@RCKickschannel]

I have been asked this a few times Patrick and it's a good question. I don't know how many Evo kits Tamiya is going to make this year or how long the run will be, but if it's like the numbers we have seen with the 2020 cars like the Terra Scorcher, I would get the Evo first and then the Egress later. A big reason is finding an Egress is way easier second hand as it's been out more times. I get the feeling the Evo is going to be gone before it's even arrived unless the production run is a large one.

[@patricksadler3587]

@@RCKickschannel thanks Gavin for your advice witch car is the better running car out of the two I don't shelf queen apart from my wild one as it was the first car I had when I got back into the hobby and the first car I had back in the day. I love the mardave stuff you are doing as I race mardave mini stock back in the day and loved it many thanks again

[@RCKickschannel]

@@patricksadler3587 Evo is a better runner. More Mardave stuff to come as well as a metal bagger body project.

[@patricksadler3587]

Thanks gavin you are the resin I got back into rc 1 and a half years ago look on you tube cheers 👍

[@zedstar1297]

how does it do round the track Gav?

[@RCKickschannel]

Fake Evo is lovely to drive but I've never driven the vintage one yet. In the spring I will run it and the rere when I get it. I want to see what time it sets on the BGRAT.

[@zedstar1297]

@@RCKickschannel trying to work out if I should buy the rere. I have the top force + all the bits to upgrade.

[@RCKickschannel]

@@zedstar1297 Depends on what your goal is really.

[@stevenbowen4262]

The Evo used a front torque splitter not a one way and light weight splined ball difficult, and hardend gears in the rear gearbox

[@RCKickschannel]

I hope the rere gets the same.

[@camrowdrone6497]

I’m number 245 👍🏻 ,over 3000 views, nobody knows about the like button 😞👊🏻👍🏻

[@grantcowan394]

$700aud??? Big hobby shop in Oz is saying that retail will be over $1k!

[@Chris-sd6os]

I wouldn’t pay too much attention to that $1k figure - it will probably land in Oz circa $700

[@darrenrace7121]

What is a manta may?

[@RCKickschannel]

I'm going to go 50/50 or phone a friend.

[@darrenrace7121]

@@RCKickschannel lol Bloody computers

[@garymurphy5133]

"Toys they are" I wonder how many of these toys will be seen being run? looks like loads have/will be sold so many will be seen out and about bashing,wont be on the track/clubs as its not a great racer. Perhaps i am just synical?

[@Faith_and_Kindness]

Why you think they are not for running in the track, tamiya had always participation in ifmar and other races worlwide, do you mean that these retro re releases are not quility for races and only for nostalgia? From the other hand kyosho also re release Ultima....

[@alphawlff]

@@Faith_and_Kindness The Ultima is like the RC10 and way above anything Tamiya would ever release

[@bobcar1972]

You forgot the F150 pickup

[@mikeymike3240]

Hi Gavin, I’d love to see you race your top force with the one way bearing round your track, I personally really really really don’t like one way bearings, toooooo many memories of crashing my beautiful Tamiya ta02 touring cars 🚗 while trying to brake for the corners, they just flip ass over tit, time and time again grrrrrrrrrr, lol 😂 you have to laugh or you would cry 😢. Nice historical Tamiya video Gav. 😎👍👍👍🇬🇧

[@RCKickschannel]

I will run the vintage Evolution, fake Evo and the rere Evo around the track this year for sure :)

[@soma_rc]

€ 369.99 pre-order at Tamico.

[@thisisarobbery5056]

Weakest part of all is spur gear . DF01 & TA01 TA02.

[@scannaunderscore1]

Manta May

[@TachyonDriver]

My Manta May actually did! I won a couple of heats back in the day when I raced it. Only because there were not enough people with 4x4 buggies in the club to have a race, so we were racing mixed 2 and 4wd. The one evening when there were enough 4x4 racers to have a grid, I spent the entire night with my Manta Ray being a mobile chicane! :D :D

[@Simonstockton82]

I don't understand why you're calling the re release a fake? its not fake its a re release, thats a big difference.

[@RCKickschannel]

Did you actually watch the video? The title alone " Fake it OR get a rerelease! Fake it as in make your own EVO or get the new rere, not the rere is fake.

[@DC_Cha_Cha_Cha]

Cool vid. Didn't Jamie Booth win the world champs with his Top Force? It was half Manta Ray, half Top-Force, with a MadCap body!

[@markbruton-young9228]

pretty sure it was a national title but impressive none the less.

[@RCKickschannel]

I did hear something like that yes.

[@Streetysuperduper]

More toy grade JUNK at hobby grade prices. Plastic shocks, plastic chassis, plastic uprights, plastic gears, plastic bushings. Cheap plastic for the price of metal. Cheap design for the price of good design. Tamiya needs to stop making RC. They suck at it. Static models? Tamiya is great. Once it is slated to move under RC control they cheap out and try to sell a name on a plastic toy-grade rc.

[@RCKickschannel]

Aluminium shock housing, carbon top and lower chassis plates, carbon uprights and metal bearings (in this kit) but I get your point Streety.

[@TachyonDriver]

Streety - I do agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, but I'll tell you a story which I think I mentioned in the information I sent to Gavin with my Manta Ray. Yes - that's my old Manta Ray which I gifted to him for the benefit of the show! I used to race indoor off road on carpet. One race, I'd just got to full speed on the straight. A competitor's buggy jumped the track divider and slammed into the Ray. His graphite composite suspension was in bits he was going home. The Ray's front diff had ripped halfway out of the bathtub. Two large washers later I was in the next race... toy grade JUNK was still on the track.. ;)