Fallout's "Jet" Problem - The Most Controversial Chem in the Series.

[@NotSenz]

I did forget to mention the Vault 95 terminal in the video (not on purpose, there was just a lot that went into the video). After thinking about it, though, I still have the same conclusion that I do about the randomized loot tables, and say that I don't think Bethesda intentionally tried to conflict with the lore from Fallout 2. I feel that this is evidenced by, again, Jet isn't in Fallout 76. Also, just to play devil's advocate. I could imagine a story writer in Fallout 4 writing the story on Vault 95 casually mentioning Jet, and not even giving a second thought about it. Either from forgetting that Jet was post-war, or just entirely not knowing. At the time of Fallout 4's development, Fallout 2 was written by a completely different company over a decade ago, so I can honestly forgive them for an inconsistency like that. It depends on what you think, though. I don't think we'll know for sure unless a developer makes a statement or something like that. Thank you guys for watching & please let me know if you would like to see more Fallout videos.

[@neomar619]

Jet isn't in Fallout 76 as an item but there is an NPC that mentions it being used by a raider gang Vault Dweller: "How did you fall in with the Blood Eagles?" Beckett: "When I was with Edwin's gang, I thought I was King Shit. I was popular with the gang, rolling in caps... I was untouchable. Then I got hooked on the chems. Psycho, Buffout, Jet, you name it, I probably used it. At that point, I was a marked man. See, the Blood Eagles were the ones seeding the gangs with the chems. That's how they recruit. They get you hooked, then they pounce. One morning I woke up, mind totally obliterated, flying Blood Eagle colors. That was all it took. I was their property now." Probably it's not in the game because gameplay limitations due to the time slow effect not being possible to implement into an online game

[@ValoTheBrute]

Wish more people though like you, especially the new fallout wiki people

[@ElliFong]

Ironically that what people considered the worst Fallout(Aside from BoS), Fallout 76 does put some care into lore than Fallout 4 lol

[@kacperjankowski9042]

it's no excuse, if you want to continue a series you should have some respect for the original work and not change the things that are clearly explained, if you want to do something different just make a new series and don't advertise it using the original

[@jovan7365]

I like this explanation for jet not being in 76 a lot. Unfortunately it also made perfect sense to me that Bethesda wouldn’t have been able to implement slow mo button to a multiplayer game even if they wanted to

[@chiefsean16]

Original fans: "JET IS POST-WAR!' Beth fans: "JET IS PRE-WAR!" Jet addicts: "whaaaaaaa 👁️👄👁️"

[@NotSenz]

Preston: "Another settlement needs your help"

[@croc3862]

It's not an addiction, I can stop whenever I want.

[@hsthatzo8063]

Bethesda fans be like "Fallout 4 has such a deep, engaging, customisable set of endings" 😂😂😂😂

[@chiefsean16]

@@hsthatzo8063 *when 4's endings are basically just copy and pasted from New Vegas*

[@matthewjones39]

@@hsthatzo8063 I’m a fallout 4 fan because it’s fun shooting things

[@ColourlessQueen]

Finding jet in prewar containers makes as much sense as finding caps, why would pre war people lock up 1000s of caps in safes before they had any value

[@jakerogueXD]

Youre kinda right, idk i compartmentalized it to thinking like oh a raider mustve used this or something. But that is a pretty massive plothole for the stuff thats been hidden away or untouched lol

[@Anunnaki_Gula]

Even in Fallout 1 and 2, caps weren't official currency. It was pre-war styled dollars.

[@zaboknowsbest13]

Because it's a video game

[@rphntw1n]

Suspension of disbelief is important to any fictional story. Caps themselves are a bad currency. SOOOO easy to make.

[@notagoat7103]

To be fair lonesome road kinda gave a reason that the military might try to stock up on caps bc of the post apocalypse currency studies, but that was probably just to explain bartering with the consoles in that dlc

[@rattlestormrepublic4874]

How about the settlement problem, there's another settlement that needs our help, I'll mark it on your map!

[@atomcatz69]

Fun facts The "settlement problem" can be easily be avoided because it's completely optional and you can beat the game without ever meeting Preston Garvey.

[@zildjian2381]

@@atomcatz69 One must be clueless and 89 years old to not meet Preston barbey

[@turtledan2513]

I play new vegas like it's a religion. I don't have that issue.

[@cptshelly]

This is why I'ma make sure to make mama Murphy od on jet every time just to teach Preston gravey a lesson

[@donutwastaken718]

@@zildjian2381 or its not their first play thru and they just don't wanna go to concord

[@KageRyuu6]

Given that Med-X was meant to be Morphine for FO3 but got changed due to Australian law, I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda thought Jet was a stand in for Speed after forgetting all about Myron.

[@TheMGIvideos]

Bethesda...

[@knellycornnan5132]

I personally like the name Med-X more.

[@andychow5509]

The world does not start with FO3

[@scatman786]

It’s literally stated to be methamphetamines in 2. People just gloss over that and stick with Myron’s claim on it.

[@riothead1240]

What an annoying country

[@utuberz123456789]

I always interpreted the intelligence check with Myron as you implying that he didn't "invent" it as much as he got lucky and "stumbled across it." It's a dig at his proclaimed genius.

[@potato2248]

the maker of the video misread it

[@masterticcu]

That's exactly what it is and I don't understand how he managed to misread it so bad. Not even going to watch the rest if the quality is like this lol

[@JamMonsterFrfo]

@@masterticcu Well I really read it both ways and subjectively the intelligence check is almost entirely irrelevant since nothing about it makes anything concrete and still the fallout bible does explicitly state that he specifically invented it and that he was really smart and really annoying and another intelligent person that could do the intelligence check would pick up on that and want to piss him off a little also still kinda rude you didn’t even finish the video man

[@concept5631]

​@@JamMonsterFrfo Good thing the Fallout Bible isn't explicitly canon then.

[@peterclarke7240]

I'd also argue, for the sake of pedantry, that it was an intelligence check, not a perception check. An intelligence check would mean you'd be able to work out that, logically, it makes very little sense, although that isn't the same as saying it's not true. You'd be essentially challenging Myron's *belief* that he'd invented it, even though that belief might actually be true. A *perception* check, on the other hand, would be more about discerning if Myron was lying, or deliberately concealing something, and THAT would be the one that made you think that not only did he not invent it, but that he KNEW he did not invent it. Either way, though, it's most likely just a relatively trivial continuity error that only us lore-dweebs would get our knickers in a twist over. Which is why we're watching this video and commenting on it, so I ain't judging anyone, believe me! 🤣🤣

[@Noah_Krakatoa]

I’d probably argue that jet became a generic name for amphetamines, and that’s why prewar amphetamines are also called jet

[@asdfssdfghgdfy5940]

Wasn’t there actually a problem where they wanted to call drugs different names back in Fallout 1, but couldn’t because of age restrictions? Or was that a different game?

[@k4hn_outcast]

@@asdfssdfghgdfy5940 Pretty sure they wanted to name Med-x just Morphine but didn't

[@bizarroknave]

Yeah junkies and dealers always create slang terms for the product. Jet became an umbrella term for all drugs with that kind of effects

[@therideneverends1697]

exactly my thoughts Heck in modern parlance "Speed" is very similar, to most people it just means an amphetamine, but thats a whole class of drugs with like 4 or 5 very commonly available derivatives

[@barneystinson4289]

@@therideneverends1697 Hell, "Bath Salts" are in this category too, its an umbrella term for synthetic cathinones.

[@Valcuda]

I definitely see as more of an accident than an intentional "Jet was pre-war". Most other chems are obviously pre-war, so I can definitely see somebody accidentally mentioning it while writing a Vault entry. I also take random loot as non-canon, since loot that is canon, is pre-set. Even Obsidian screwed up with their loot tables, forgetting to remove strange meat as potential loot for a container type, and suddenly Mick and Ralph are thought to be cannibals. Edit: Fellas, Obsidian removed strange meat from appearing in Mick and Ralph's, meaning it was obviously a mistake else they would've left it in! Bethesda likely doesn't see an issue with these inconsistencies, since like I said, random loot is likely non-canon, cause whenever loot IS canon, it's pre-set. As for that ONE terminal, it's one terminal out of HUNDREDS! If you let it ruin your experience, that's on you. As someone else has said, they imagine "Jet" being a name of a pre-war drug, which postwar jet got its name from.

[@youmukonpaku3168]

but for the terminal entries, I always assumed the Jet in Vault 95 was supposed to represent prewar meth.

[@dr.awesomeisawesome9567]

I actually was wondering this the other day playing fallout 3. In the Dunwich building in the corner of the map there's pre-set jet in the lower levels. But no one really travels that far in the waste and those that arrive are killed by dozens of ghouls or slowly turn into one; so how did jet get all the way down there?

[@sgtstr3am785]

Vault 34 has Jet in NV. I'm an OG fanboy and even Ovsidian doesn't know

[@emersonpage5384]

@@sgtstr3am785 Vault 34 has contact with the outside, though

[@sidgar1]

*canon

[@TheTSense]

While I never read up on the Fallout Bible before, I always figured that Miss Bishop being a junkie for 30+ years was the problem. She was kicked out for having other drug problems, but it has been so long that she can't even keep track of what she is addicted to when.

[@michaelboyle7281]

That actually follows reality too. I was addicted to meth and heroin for about 4 years, but I always forget that I got hooked on meth almost 2 years after I started nodding off heroin. But I always consider it a 4 year addiction to both, and I almost never remember the run I had with crack at all. You really forget alot of stuff messing wth drugs

[@PleaseHelpMyTurtleIsRapingMe]

@@michaelboyle7281 who asked?

[@grob420]

@@PleaseHelpMyTurtleIsRapingMe kiss urself

[@Slikk0201]

@@PleaseHelpMyTurtleIsRapingMe the ratio

[@KapitanWasTaken]

@@PleaseHelpMyTurtleIsRapingMe I asked.

[@philliph.dunwich1189]

I feel it should be mentioned that the Sole Survivor - when hearing about Jet - responds with confusion. Literally says, “Jet” in a tone that implies he’s never heard about the drug - which doesn’t add up. Assuming Jet is a pre-war military drug (terminal entry + loading screen hint), then why does the Sole Survivor, a veteran, not know what Jet is?

[@Valiguss]

Maybe was for specialist troops

[@BaeBunni]

Well Nate is a vetaran during the war which was 25 years. He default look doesn't seem to old so he would be roughly 30 or so he could have had about 5-10 year enlistment and retired which would concede with Nora getting a law degree and going through the hoops to be a practicing attorney. Since they didn't have a kid immediately you could be talking about decent time window between Nate's retirement and the introduction of jet to troops.

[@craig3077]

Or maybe just Bethesda is full of idiots can't work as a team?

[@googlespud6387]

Might have had a different name pre-war

[@komiks42]

​@@googlespud6387yea. Germans didn't call it "meth" but "petvitin", while it was the same thing. Names change

[@King_Of_Midgard]

I personally always imagined "Jet" in pre-war containers was just pre-war amphetamine inhalers. Benzedrex inhalers are used now for nasal congestion, but it used to be that Amphetamine sulfate was used for it, and it was changed due to how people abused amphetamines. To post-war people, amphetamine inhalers are 'Jet', not "Amphetamines prescribed for Allergies".

[@ThomasTheBullet]

A year late, but this would also explain why Jet has a very different effect in 4.

[@slintisbased]

Lol you’re giving way too much credit to Bethesda. Especially in a game that doesn’t pay heed to previous lore. Most likely reason is that they either didn’t care or didn’t notice

[@parkerchace]

I would like you to revisit this comment after watching the Fallout TV show I think you'll understand

[@tesselatespacetimewithsill2504]

@@ThomasTheBullethi yru

[@ailbbe]

​@dylanstreit3612 I don't think they're trying to say this is what Bethesda intended but instead is an explanation that could fix Bethesda's mistake

[@Lcs546]

only one thing was missing. in fallout 4 there is a terminal entry in a vault where they ask to bring in a shipment of jet and psycho for the social experiment. it was precisely this entry that caused so much discussion between original fans and modern fans.

[@NotSenz]

Thanks for bringing this up. I replied to another comment previously about Vault 95, but I went ahead and updated my response to the pinned comment.

[@elvangulley3210]

Old fans and modern fans ? No there's only fallout fans and bugthesda fans. Bugthesda has never and will never make fallout games.

[@AAAaaaaaeeeeeeeee]

@@elvangulley3210 Todd Howard even said in an interview that he intentionally puts bugs in his games to enrage older Fallout fans. He also admitted to dunking his balls in Chris Avelone's coffee numerous times during New Vegas' development.

[@elvangulley3210]

@@AAAaaaaaeeeeeeeee and that's why all his games are shit only brain dead dude bros like his trash

[@diany3061]

@@AAAaaaaaeeeeeeeee that's reminds me about a yiff mini comic but instead of coffe it was a sundae

[@petrichor04_]

While it's absolutely morally reprehensible it is kinda sweet listening to how enthusiastic Myron is about explaining the whole process.

[@Dorkeydaze]

I like is beavis laugh with he’s excited about something or making a joke

[@bobjohnson1633]

Morally reprehensible? They were going to take drugs anyway and he made a safe drug.

[@lilvro7016]

@@bobjohnson1633 he killed 100 slaves to create it there’s nothing moral about that, an jet isn’t safe jus cuz it won’t kill you Myron literally died to a jet addict😂

[@barneystinson4289]

@@bobjohnson1633 Bob

[@edisonlima4647]

He was a great character, but I never wanted more to reach through the screen and bitchslap someone in a game as when I was playing as a female with high Science and Medicine. He was such a brat! Lol

[@Dorkeydaze]

I really love Myrions dialogue and the fact it sounds 100% reasonable that this kid could honestly just be a mad genius with a decent understanding of pharmaceuticals…. I mean everything now is so modern and written done it wouldn’t be impossible for an average joe to come across some formulas and work it out but in the post apocalypse it really would be people like Myrion with just an innate understanding of things that would be ruling the wasteland making jet etc

[@genericscout5408]

Myron isn't exactly a genius he's more like a punk who pieced together some stuff. All the things he had access to just let him realize there was a trend and make good on it. At best he invented a drug that was obvious. At worse he was like an average joe and figured out how to capture the fumes.

[@PointlessRhetoric]

I'd say that dialogue is pretty damn stupid and even though there's a hint of truth in what is being stated the rambling about psilocybin mushrooms and cow poop fumes are all hilariously far away from reality. The fallout universe is cool and interesting fiction but there's so many plot holes and absurdities that it could never be taken as something approaching realistic.

[@cocodojo]

Best part is after FO2, if you had him in your party, it says nobody even remembers him after he died.

[@Dorkeydaze]

@@cocodojo Lol considering Marcus is still running Jacob’s town that’s pretty funny

[@cocodojo]

@@Dorkeydaze I don't remember the cause of Myron's death after FO2, but it was something stupid that when you read it, its like "oh yeah, that's totally a bonehead move that Myron would've done"

[@YoungClarke]

Figure jet is really just a common slang for an upper in the fallout world. Like someone using “advil” for the name of basically any over the counter pain med. the “jet” we know has just become so widespread post-war that it’s what everyone thinks of.

[@ryszakowy]

figure bethesda can't make games properly and didn't even bother chacking items from fallout 2 properly before destroying the franchise

[@cam5816]

Like fentanyl and Tylenol. Both advil. Either works really

[@scottthejatt]

​@ryszakowy im so glad a game you didnt have to play made you upset. Why do fallout fans think they need to play or interact with fallout games they do not like or care for? Why can't you just be happy with what you have? You can believe that Fallout 1, Fallout 2, and Fallout New Vegas are the only Fallout games that matter and not interact with Fallout 3, Fallout 4, and Fallout 76. No one is forcing you to interact with those games. "Oh, but its ruining the canon!" My man, what is canon is what you believe to be canon. People interpret art differently. If you don't believe Bethesda Fallout is canon, fucking ignore it. Sorry for saying this to you in specific, this is a grievance I have with a lot of different people.

[@advicehydra6332]

@@scottthejattPeople who hate Fallout fans the most are fellow fallout fans. This is why I don’t interact with fandoms. So toxic.

[@scottthejatt]

@@advicehydra6332 good on you my man

[@vaultboya6253]

I'm pretty sure you're right about it being an oversight. In fallout new vegas I find tons of jet in the safes inside the lucky 38 casino which house says no one else has be inside for 200 years. It's the loot pool for chems having jet in it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[@ryszakowy]

in vegas 200 years means it's 164 years after the bombs fell that means house has been locked in lucky 38 for 46 years before bombs fell there's no way jet would make it there no matter pre-war or post war oblivion's engine random loot table is just a mess

[@catacomb2772]

Jenk is simply a drug beyond time, unconstrained by lore.

[@SixPieceNoNuggets]

I'm calling it Jenk from now on.

[@milkman9560]

@@SixPieceNoNuggetsI third this

[@gabork5055]

Jenk always fought Walter because he wanted a drug-free world. That's why Walter started to call it Jenk as a way to take revenge.

[@barneystinson4289]

Finally someone who understands

[@prejorist]

Jenk is also the shortened term for the real world drug jenkem. Which is the gas produced by fermented excrement.

[@IGSA101]

There have been times in real life where the creation of something is credited to multiple people. It's not unrealistic that Myron invented jet post war on his own, and it had been made in the past as well.

[@barneystinson4289]

I mean, take a realistic look at invention People live collectively in society in the same social-material conditions, some are affected differently by these conditions (for example Racism benefitting one group at the expense of another) but overall these conditions are still the same. Inventors do this all the time. Often its two or more people who live absolutely disconnected from each other in the same country who invent the exact same invention, because they both face similar problems from living in the same society. Patents are just for those who can file faster and pay for better Lawyers.

[@rheawelsh4142]

@@barneystinson4289 The issue is mostly the invention itself. With any production method any more difficult than literally just putting cow shit fumes in an inhaler it'd be too impractical to compete with any other drug

[@ZekromAndYugiAndDrago123]

Personally I think Jet existed pre-war but was expensive to make so it was a rarer drug compared to shit like Psycho. Then, post war, Myron figured out a way to make it post war that was infinitely easier, making a fortune from it

[@imnotaracistokay]

I like to think myron is like thomas edison of fallout

[@sicwitit9918]

Na, Bethesda has dropped the ball with fallouts lore a lot. One of the devs made a mistake, no need for an unnecessary retcon over a simple oversight.

[@leonweskeradac8239]

That, “nobody remembered him, not even Bethesda” is a sick burn 😂

[@tony-showbiz]

I think it’s also worth noting that jet has a different effect in fallout 2, new Vegas & 3, and 4. My theory is that he did invent the strain that’s prevalent in the area of Fallout 2 and then after that, every amphetamine that you take through an inhaler just became known as jet through shorthand, so what you find in pre war containers could just be called jet retroactively, even if it was called something else at the time. Shit, maybe it was called jet too and myron just took the name from another pre war terminal caus he liked it and applied it to his own amphetamine that he developed. Maybe the vault 95 terminal too is talking about a different drug that just happens to be called Jet. I think it just becomes a lot more helpful when you view it through more of a cultural lens and jet as more of a concept and group of drugs than one single product

[@CarbonatedGravy]

I think the best explanation besides the obvious fallout bible statement is that speed inhalers had always existed since prewar but the way to make them was lost or too complex/impractical in the postwar setting, so myron came up with a wasteland improvisation based on the brahmin dung that’s effectively identical. I think it fits right in with say stimpaks where you make them on a workbench out of plants you picked out the ground and an empty syringe, still called just a stimpak just the same as one you take out of prewar medkits but obviously made completely differently and can’t be completely identical

[@samueldennisLCSW]

In our world, Benzedrine inhalers were used for a congestion relief in the 1950s and it was essentially pure amphetamine. I like to think that prewar “jet” is simply a product citizens could buy.

[@ryszakowy]

fallout is not 50's

[@csub6712]

Fallout has a retro 50's artstle

[@Skullhawk13]

@@ryszakowyit’s a universe where science works as understood by Hollywood in the 50s tho

[@dubstepgod123]

​​​@@Skullhawk13 @csub6712 no it doesn't, it's retro futurism. How the past viewed the future, it's not the 1950s but more like how the people from 1950 will imagine 2077. Then nuke it. In 1&2 You can find the band tool posters in cities, and modern weapons like the p90c, fn fal, l85, m60, desert eagle and many more.

[@0lionheart]

@@dubstepgod123 you both said the same thing, different wording. World of tomorrow, through the lens of pulp sci-fi. Developers expressed regret for the Cold War era guns in 2, much like the pop culture references. 1 had the Desert Eagle, but the rest were fictional. Adam A utterly smashed it with his designs for 3, still think his weapon designs are the most consistent and most "retrofuture" the series has ever seen. His 10mm SMG is like you ran an MP5 through an industrial press and I fucking love it to bits, that's how you do modern-ish guns in Fallout imo

[@lilheinz9496]

Mad props for shwing resoect to that VA who does the boy genius voice and boone. He also does a lot of other great N.V. characters. The Helios scientist idiot and Few freeside locals, every one of this voice actors lines are magnificent. Great vid!

[@NotSenz]

I didn't know he voice acted Mr. Fantastic. That's awesome! Thanks for letting me know.

[@PrettyPinkPersephone]

Fun fact, Helios guy’s voice is literally just the voice actor doing Myron again as an adult

[@supersnizelz]

@@PrettyPinkPersephone lol

[@Satellaview1889]

@@NotSenz It isn't awesome, it's Fantastic!

[@NotSenz]

@@Satellaview1889 Made me chuckle, thanks!

[@jmdesertadventures803]

I bet the jet inhalers are pre-war, back then it contained a similar Chem to post-war jet. Not knowing what to call it, the wasteland just generically calls the inhalers that make you go fast jet. It doesn't matter if the actual chemical inside is pre/post war.

[@michaelboyle7281]

Very true to reality too (god this is lie my 4th comment on this video just agreeing with lifelike stuff lmao). I was addicted to heroin and meth for awhile and as long as the effect was good I kept doing it, not caring what it was. Lke one time I bought some heroin from a new dude, and instead of beng a powder it was just a big bluish green chunk. Literally thought it was just a piece of a xanax bar. But when I crushed it up and shot it, it was the best damn dope I had ever done. I thin it turned out to be carfentanyl, which is an elephant tranqualizer waaayy more potent than heroin, and even more potent than regular fentanyl. But as long as I got high I didn't really care what it was, and just called it dope regardless.

[@therideneverends1697]

Actually this just hit me, old decongestant inhalers up untill the mid 60s where literally just amphetamine sulfate aerosol, in the fallout universe since things are a spin off of old americana you can assume they just never changed it if you take that into consideration than it makes perfect sense, both are inhailers that get you ripped, the average wastelander is not going to have the experence or intrest in determineing the exact chemical composition of what they are huffing

[@bloodleader5]

@@michaelboyle7281 I'm glad you didn't die from fentanyl use. It's singlehandedly responsible for over 90% of all drug related deaths in the last several years.

[@SchwachsinnProduzent]

Maybe they even recycled pre-war inhalers to produce their post-war jet. Maybe they recycled the old name as well and just told no one they are huffing brahmin farts instead of whatever was in the old ones.

[@jmdesertadventures803]

@@SchwachsinnProduzent exactly what I was saying. If the inhalers are prewar then jet being found in sealed vaults and safes makes sense. Jet could be pre-war and also invented by the kid, multiple things can be true.

[@FoxhoundAK74]

My theory is that there was a Pre-war chem called Jet, that was kinda similar, and that's what we find in 4, especially since it has a different effect. Myron just named his creation after it.

[@Ferny1415]

Damn that Boy Genius really did deliver that dialogue. His intense excitement increasing to the story progress of the drug made it sound like it was the real deal.

[@nvidiaplay]

tbh i miss these dialogues - they were so detailed about every topic and really made player immersed in conversations with npcs modern games (including fallouts - yes even new vegas) miss it unfortunately

[@Dorkeydaze]

New Vegas had pretty solid dialogue listen to house explain how he strong armed the NCR to the negotiation table and why the Hoover damn even has clean water no surprise house was able to stop the majority of the nuclear onslaught himself keeping Vegas and Hoover damn from being destroyed!

[@DJWeapon8]

I don't know. FNV and even F3 (which I enjoy ragging on as a terrible RPG let alone a Fallout game) has about the same amount of dialogue "depth". Its just that in NV and 3, *ALL NPCs HAVE VOICED LINES.* Compared to 1 and 2 where only several dozen NPCs had voiced dialogue, the rest were just text. The novelty wears off, so to speak. Fallout 2 had only 15 Talking Heads. New Vegas vanilla had more voiced NPCs with more dialogue lines than just 15.

[@nvidiaplay]

@@DJWeapon8 well still i prefer quality over quantity

[@diogenesrex7847]

@Crossek I think in some places NV managed to shine with the optional dialog. Hell, hearing Caesar ramble about Hegelian dialectics sounds right out of FO2.

[@MarcosGarcia-kx4rb]

@@DJWeapon8 yeeees the moment you interacted with a voices head on fo1 and 2 you payed more attention because that was a VERY important npc

[@resident-evil-jerma5389]

i always thought that the reason jet can be found in safes is because people unlocked them and used them as storage after the bombs dropped. at the time of fallout 4 it’s been multiple centuries so the likelihood of that NOT being the case seems slim to me. the vault thing seems like just an oopsie though. or vault tec or some other prewar company made jet after experimenting (and murdering hundreds) and just used it exclusively in vault 95, which would explain why it wasn’t widespread and which i’d believe if it didn’t have the same name.

[@nickmoore6861]

I think there is a likelihood that the Jet we see in Fallout 4 could be something with the same name, but a different drug altogether due to it's alternative affect (and lore). There is a Drug that seems to work like the OG Jet in Fallout 4 called Jet Fuel, which could be a colloquialism for true Jet. Though this is just me trying to rationalise things while roleplaying. Had to do the same thing with Lib Prime and Cambridge Polymer Labs.

[@FumblsTheSniper]

You care more than Bethesda did and that’s pretty pathetic on their part

[@michaelboyle7281]

That would be pretty close to reality too tbh. I was addicted to heron and meth for a few years and I've ran into nstances and other pronlems similar. Like where I come from dope means heroin but in some places dope means meth. With buying heroin it ould always be real heroin or fentanyl OR it could be this other chemical to whch I have no idea what it;s called, but I've ran into it a handful of times. What that specific chemical does is nothing like heroin and makes you feel like you've smoked way too much weed and just very uncomfortable when you shoot it up, but dealers who dont also use it just sell it as heroin anyways. Then you get to designer drugs. Which is basically just mixing and combning drugs to create a certain effect. In my area, heroin s sold in little dose sized stamp bags, so sometimes when I would sell to friends I would make custom "Speedball bags" which is just mixing heroin and meth together and I would call them "Bonkle Bags" since my nickname is bonkle lol. But other people mix other drugs into them. Once my buddy had some bags and got arrested and when they tested it just one bag came positive of Heroin, Fentayl, MDMA, and Meth all in the same bag! After fndng that out we all knew why we loved those bags so much lmao Sorry for rambling a bit, hpe all this info contributes atleast something

[@asteroidrules]

That would make sense given the fact that a lot of street drugs play fast and loose with names. Also by Myron's account his jet recipe is an inhaled form of amphetamine, which was a known drug before the war, and we know from Dixon in Fallout New Vegas that different recipes of jet exist. It could be that jet has become something of a generic name for inhaled amphetamines, with even pre-war drugs of a similar nature being referred to as jet, but what Myron specifically discovered was a reliable method to produce such chemicals in the postwar environment.

[@therideneverends1697]

@@asteroidrules also remember for a long time amphetamine inhailers where perscribed for athsma and allergies, could just be in the fallout universe they never switched over to modern steroid based inhalers

[@Dragondw11]

14:18 It doesn't seem unrealistic to me that pre-war chemists would be at least as capable as a teenager living in the wasteland. It might be a sign that Myron wasn't that great of a chemist if he killed 100 test subjects.

[@ardibetrayal3493]

Well those "pre war" create those illegal drugs that actually killed a lot of people even in post so they not exactly body less than Myron i bet they test subject is many not saying i like Myron i hate his cowardly butt, but i have to admit the stuff he Made that some luck and intelegent combine is like... If you found out that a lightning could make a fire then u try it on your lamp some incredible SH*t

[@ownage11445]

No he’s just unthecial who was willing to brute force his method at the cost of human life. The only downside in his mind was the initial monetary cost of each “test subject”.

[@Ser_Lefty]

​@@ownage11445 I mean he still should have interest in avoiding much of the initial monetary costs. Like he says, slaves aren't cheap. He may not care about the loss of life, but if he could avoid it I doubt he'd want to owe all that money to the Mordinos. If jet hadn't been a success he'd be screwed.

[@PaytonTate]

I genuinely don't know how this is still a lore 'problem,' intoxication through huffed fecal fumes has been around since the 90s, so of course pre-war Jet existed before 2, and is only known by that shorthand in the wasteland.

[@R3AL-AIM]

That drugie in Fallout 2 was extremely accurate. Lmao. Someone on the writing team lived the 70's or 80's right 😂

[@Dr.GregHouse]

the game came out in ‘98,so they absolutely did

[@LehySnek]

What did you expect? Did you think F2 was made by 8 year olds?

[@shaynecarter-murray3127]

Easy, lore friendly solution. Prewar Jet is what you find in later games, as it appears in sealed vaults and stuff. It's then very short term, intense stuff. Myron named his longer lasting but weaker product Jet after the prewar stuff, just like Deezer calls his drink Lemonade. Each is reminiscent of the old world stuff, but not the same. And in the later games, the Jet that can be found with raiders and such is just like prewar jet...because they've had 200 years to find old labs and old recipes to make "real" jet. Also FO76 doesn't count. AFAIC, it goes in the box with FO:BOS and tactics

[@Intr0vertical]

76 is canon dawg

[@AlchemistOfNirnroot]

@@Intr0vertical So is FO: Tactics (in some parts).

[@riddlerthediddler4392]

@@Intr0vertical I like watching Hitler in a clown outfit battle mothman with a Commie Whacker

[@maxs3rddamnaccount]

76 is a bit of a guilty pleasure for me lol. I don't like calling it a fallout game, but I'll be damned if it isn't fun to grind with the boys

[@Robb1977]

i think a decent case could be made for the idea that prewar jet is generic amphetamines. postwar jet is the "real jet" but because of limitations in coding/engine, game mechanics, dev time, and age restrictions for including real drugs in game... all amphetamines become honorary jet. I think the intelligence check could really just be stating the point "hey kid, you didnt invent meth, and you didnt even invent the special process for your special new aerosol kind. all you did was stabilize it and call it something fancy" considering jet was invented to give a shorter high, i dont think we would consider Myrons work to be "longer lasting but weaker" if anything it should be directly inverse. In new vegas we see there is actually a variety of different jet products. Rocket and ultrajet are stronger, as or more addictive, and could be stand ins for pre-war chems, but given rocket is a recipe given by jack, probably a Khan invention. Dixons jet on the other hand is extremely evil, its weaker in potency, but far more addictive. Id argue Dixons jet would be what Myron would have eventually created/ was looking to create. A weaker drug that lowered its physical impact on the user, but just made them crave it more. I will note, that Dixons supplies are considered dubious, and so his version of Jet may come with an out-of-game but still in lore side-effect of increased lethality. Dixons supplies can also be cured via fixer or doctor, while Rocket and Ultrajet are incurable.

[@thebadguy0-026]

Good video with a very clear and logical thought process. I wouldn't take the loot in vaults too seriously, as you can also find stuff like pipe pistols and squirrel bits in sealed vaults. Just randomized loot or dev oversight.

[@buckfizzard291]

Almost like Bethesda only cares about your wallet

[@StonyCephalopod]

Pipe weapons can actually be seen in magazines, proving they might actually be pre-war. Still is probably an oversight on Bethesda's part, but may still work with the lore.

[@thebadguy0-026]

@@buckfizzard291 thats definitely what all the marketing garbage seems like. Not to mention the horrors of fo76 and eso

[@buckfizzard291]

@@thebadguy0-026 or just watch a Todd Howard interview

[@owoberon4947]

what do you mean? squirrel bits are totally pre-war! source: T R U S T

[@SphericalCowPhysics]

The way I settled that controversy for myself is just to imagine that by the time of the later games, jet has become a generic term for amphetamines. After all, Myron and his discovery were forgotten but the effect was still made.

[@tfordham13]

Nope jet is pre war police logs plus drug vault

[@Breadgoods]

You can make head canon all you like, but the final argument in the video is the simplest. Bethesda were sloppy with the IP, throwing in recognisable parts of the lore because money, without considering the impact on the chronology.

[@ranja2486]

I think you've done a pretty good job explaining this little mess in the lore. Pretty awesome and thorough work

[@NotSenz]

Hey, thanks! I’m glad you enjoyed the video!

[@tubanotuva]

I think the reason of jet not being included in 76 is since it's a multiplayer game, the effects it provides from the previous game can't be implemented. You can't just have a player that sees everything in slow motion while another one is seeing everything normally y'know? Of course they could've just changed the effects if they really wanted to keep it in the game, but I think 76 being way earlier in the timeline than the other games ties the lore back together. Great video btw!

[@ryszakowy]

how does a giant mess tie lore back together?

[@MA-qu3hi]

In max payne 3’s multiplayer they still has bullet time which slows time. It worked pretty interestingly in that if you activated it, anyone you can see and anyone that can see you was also in bullet time. So you and the person you are shooting at would really just be moving really slowly, while someone across the map not looking at either of you would just be moving along as normal

[@nickbarnett5004]

Meanwhile, in some of the fallout 4 pre-war logs on police terminals and evidence lockup terminals mentioned a few arrests for possession of jet. So, some more evidence in fallout 4 pointing towards jet being invented pre war. But yeah, probably an oversight on the developers.

[@GaryBirdmin]

Jet as a consumable is not in Fallout 76 (taking place in 2102), but the Collectron 'Ace the Raider' has a dialog line of "If I dont get more Jet soon, I will blow a fuse." So it exists in that time.

[@coltonstewart8698]

My thought with jet not being in 76 is because people would want it to slow time, and you can't do that in an online game. They could have nerfed it to just give a bunch of AP, but nobody would use it and it would be worthless.

[@salamandarin8626]

F76 is non-canon

[@juggnautbitch]

Nothing in 76 is canon, it's a shameless cash grab that rapes the lore.

[@ladyalicent705]

@@coltonstewart8698I don’t know about that. I’ve played every single Fallout (haven’t finished F2 yet, just started it but I’ve finished Fo1 along with all the others), and the idea of Jet slowing down time is actually a very new idea. Fallout 4 is actually the only Fallout game to date where Jet slows down time, every other game it gives AP (except fo1 where it doesn’t exist). Earlier games DO have a ‘slow time drug’ but it isn’t Jet, it’s Turbo. They’re two seperate chems, so they could have had Jet in fo76 and not turbo, especially with how useful VATS is in PvP!

[@prega3188]

​well the problem is that no one does pvp in 76@@ladyalicent705

[@VannMunson]

Now I'm imagining what if there's a bunch of junkies with stealth boys running around all over the east coast stashing post-war jet in pre-war locations, not getting into any fights, not taking any of the other loot, relocking doors, containers and terminals, otherwise not leaving a single trace of their presence. They edited that terminal entry in Vault 95 to throw us off their tracks, don't be fooled.

[@NotSenz]

(X-Files Music increases)

[@VannMunson]

Oh man old No-Bark is gonna go nuts over this one

[@trevalyan006]

The worst part is that this would be 100% on brand for a Nightkin doing their part for D. A. R. E.

[@nubnubthegreat8215]

I like to imagine that it's not exactly jet in the prewar containers but that it's just an AP boosting item but so they don't have to make a million chems to do the same thing that jet does

[@ryszakowy]

literally changing name of a chem costs them 5 years of development

[@nubnubthegreat8215]

@@ryszakowy well I meant more in terms of the stuff in the vault and after 100 years they would probably have the recipe on the east coast

[@icel8828]

I think it’s possible jet is prewar, but the knowledge of its creation was completely forgotten by the time of fallout 2, so it would need to be REinvented.

[@ryszakowy]

myron literally describes how he made jet

[@icel8828]

@@ryszakowy how does that go against what I said?

[@joshmartling]

That “Eureka” line was enough to get me to finally buy Fallout 1 and 2

[@murilo7794]

Maybe inhalers where a common delivery method for drugs pre-war, and, since raiders and other addicts don't seem like the smartest bunch, they just call anything that comes in an inhaler and has a kinda similar effect Jet.

[@AidenRKrone]

Two words: chemical analogs. Just as there are analogs to drugs in real life, there are analogs to drugs in the _Fallout_ universe. For example, propylhexedrine is an analog of methamphetamine. Its chemical structure is very similar to methamphetamine, and so the effects it produces are identical or extremely similar to methamphetamine. Similarly, in the _Fallout_ universe, there are different kinds of Jet. Myron's Jet was synthesized from brahmin dung containing a prewar amphetamine, but other forms of Jet, such as prewar Jet and East Coast Jet, are aerosolized variants of substituted amphetamines or amphetamine analogs. Another possibility is that non-Myron forms of Jet aren't even amphetamines at all, but simply other kinds of stimulants (the list of which is practically endless).

[@Tomica0009]

- Fallout 4: A ghoul kid can survive being stuck in a fridge without eating or drinking anything for 210 years. - Also Fallout 4: Ghoul settlers in your settlements have to eat and drink. It's hard to dive into the lore of a series in which a mainline entry contradicts itself.

[@bobsnow6242]

Is it 100% confirmed that the kid in the fridge was stuck there from before the Great War, though? A more plausible theory I've heard being floated was that he was just in the vicinity relatively recently during a skirmish between Gunners or Raiders or somebody and took cover in the fridge before a grenade or at most a mini-nuke went off nearby, and then got stuck inside afterwards for maybe a few days or weeks tops. Sustenance issues aside, he'd be completely, irretrievably insane after 210 years of solitude with no human contact in what's essentially a metal casket. And he'd be driven even more insane by seeing sunlight for the first time in two centuries, much less the condition of the world after the war, which definitely wasn't the case. Not to mention he'd almost certainly be completely incapable of human speech. I know it's horrendous Bethesda writing so I can't rule out that they actually intended for him to be a prewar kid who got ghoulified without giving it more than ten seconds of logical thought but I cling to the other theory of him just being a regular postwar ghoul hiding out from a regular contemporary battle as my own head canon because it's too monumentally stupid and depressing to consider the alternative as official lore.

[@struggler78]

@@bobsnow6242 The other example of a ghoul who seemingly didn't need to eat or drink comes from Eddie Winters, the ghoul you find after doing Nick Valentine's quest. Eddie(somehow) knew about ghoulification before the bombs dropped, made himself a ghoul, then locked himself in a bunker until the player opens it. It is unbelievable to imagine that he somehow fit 210 years worth of food and water into a bunker that small. Billy is *maybe* debatable but Eddie Winters is a 100% case of Bethesda sometimes forgetting that ghouls need to eat and drink.

[@IronBridge1781]

I always understood it as ghouls don’t need food or water to survive (only requiring radiation), they just prefer eating and drinking. I mean how many feral ghouls do we find isolated across the wasteland (in all the games) that wouldn’t have had any way to access food or water, but they’re still alive?

[@Tomica0009]

@@bobsnow6242 The kid actually says that he has no idea what happened to the world, and his parents later explain to him that they are all ghouls. I agree with all your points, and I would also like to add that ghouls also age, so he wouldn't be a kid after 210 years, but a grown ghoul. The thing is, I read somewhere that all employees at Bethesda Game Studios are able to write their ideas for a side quest in their games on a piece of paper and put it inside a box, and then later, the lead writers read them all and choose what they like while scraping the rest. I don't know how true it is, but when looking at this quest, or at the quest where you TELL a cat to go home, it seems pretty likely.

[@Tomica0009]

@@IronBridge1781 Nope, it's established in the first game that ghouls do need food and water to survive. In Fallout one, if ghouls in Necropolis lose their water chip, an end slide plays where it is stated that they learned first hand what dehydration is, ans died out. And feral ghouls are pretty much like animals, they hunt and eat what they can find, also probably attacking you because you are a big pile of meat.

[@youngbubbiesclub2848]

The biggest evidence for Jet being post-war is that Bethesda treats Fallout more like a theme park ride with a Fallout skin. They know the look of Super Mutants, Death Claws, Brotherhood of Steel, etc. but put almost no effort into making original ideas for the setting or explaining how the east coast just happens to be overrun with west coast problems, despite being a completely different biome and political situation. The Bethesda games are more Falloutcore than Fallout Lore.

[@ggggg77273]

That's how all their games are since Oblivion honestly. Just big theme parks.

[@ciciciaphascain4143]

BOS and Super mutant is a franchise staple well before Bethesda brought the IP. They even make two whole game revolve around BOS being the main faction, kicking big bad's butt. And why didn't you mention railroad, instate, minutemen, talon company, gunner and 100 other original ideas they put in the game? They use a few things from previous games and make a ton of new things and yet people only remember a few they reuse, kinda reinforce the point that they're staple tbh. And what west coast problem? I don't remember west coast ever has to deal with mad scientist running experiment on people and actively sabotage any attempt to unify the region, or a region wide water shortage leading to famine.

[@giggajames1903]

Chris Avellone: We kinda forgot about the Bishop's. Todd Howard: We kinda forgot about Myron.

[@gerrador0]

The Myron check is "I'm not convinced a child like you [DIDN'T] just STUMBLE across it, myron." not "I'm not convinced a child like you [CAN] just STUMBLE across it, myron." The way it's originally written in-game is suggesting that Myron just stumbled upon it by pure chance, poking fun at Myron's intelligence and questioning if he's a genius or just lucky. The way you rephrased it completely changed the meaning to create the perception of doubt that Myron would even be CAPABLE of discovering it accidentally, suggesting he would have needed a third-party source for the discovery.

[@NotSenz]

I wouldn't be surprised if Myron stumbled across Jet in a secret recipe somewhere hidden and claimed the recipe to be his own. He would definitely be the type of person to do that. Here are three main reasons why I don't believe that to be the case, however: 1) There is no evidence in any Fallout game, mention or otherwise, that Myron found any sort of recipe or secret that directly or indirectly lead to the invention of Jet 2) Myron goes into detail about the process of creating Jet inside of Fallout 2 and discusses a lot of the trial and error that we went through. It's theoretically possible that he just happened to find a recipe around the same time he was trying to create something for the Mordino crime family. Again, I find it to be highly unlikely. 3) Chris Avellone directly clarified a misconception in the game's dialogue and said that Myron was the one to invent Jet in Fallout Bible 9. While i'm not trying to imply that it was impossible for Myron to find a recipe, like the Chosen One's dialogue option suggests, I am saying that the evidence we find in the Fallout universe suggests otherwise. Hopefully that clears it up.

[@hadesmusic1175]

I was never able to put into words how New Vegas or fallout 3 especially feel different than fallout 4 it's just kind of that ominous Vibe maybe but I always loved fallout 4's workshop settlement stuff so I always wish there was like a hybrid of the two games

[@halflife2fun]

there are some base building mods for NV

[@BishopGantry]

Myron admits to that he merly refined it into "Myron's Jet" using pre war knowledge and pre war samples, at best he invented a way to extract and refine "Jet" in a post war setting

[@hmanvlogs2956]

I believe that’s a change though, I believe

[@ralphpangallo5960]

@@hmanvlogs2956Myron says it if you have high enough skills in medicine I believe. You can call him out on how it isn’t his drug. He gets defensive about it but the chosen one is correct in that he only added the Brahmin fumes to give it more kick. Going off fallout 4’s crafting system normal jet can be crafted using pre war cow shit just fine.

[@ValoTheBrute]

When does he admit this?

[@volition142]

Yes but the Brahmin need a very specific microcultural environment to be able to produce jet

[@supersnizelz]

that's like saying that the guy who discovered electrons didn't really discover them but just refined other people's knowledge in science we say someone discovered something if they made a working theory of it not if they are the first to observe it

[@adanufgail]

My theory: I feel like there was probably a pre-war stimulant that was known as Jet. The methods of making it were lost with the war, so when the supply runs low and Myron comes up with a replacement, it's just called Jet. Similar to how some designer drugs get multiple names, and how many "pure" drugs (MDMA, heroin, etc) are cut with additives in the real world, it was just a case of customers not knowing what it was they were getting.

[@funny250wall]

What’s funny is I think Jet was removed from 76 just because you can’t go in slow motion in multiplayer

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

Some multiplayer games had found creative ways of simulating slow motion by intentionally exploiting client side server lag and the like. Bethesda rightfully shouldn't even try but.

[@soursylveon4784]

Interplay fans would believe that Myron created the earth in six days if he was the first one to tell them.

[@korbell1089]

I could understand the mistake about the loot tables EXCEPT for the fact that Vault 95 contained Jet. I think what happened is they weren't really concerned about where Jet came from, just using it as a loot item, but then found out how passionate Fallout's fan base is.😂

[@ryszakowy]

bethesda didn't even consider the logic behing places like vault 87 or little lamplight

[@ownage11445]

Fans have to gate keep otherwise your favorite universe gets Bethesdudded

[@blazeesq2000]

It could be that jet wwas a name for a popular street drug before the war that was an upper. After the war, they just used the name though the drub might be made differently or have a different taste or whatever. So, they could be different drugs with same name that have similar effects.

[@Fraulein_Sausageball]

I gotta agree with the "Bethesda mistake" theory, also due to pipe-weapon availability in pre-war containers. Why would people construct homemade weapons when you can easily purchase professionally made firearms?

[@NotSenz]

Hey Richard, I recently went into detail about pipe weapons and their availability (and compared to factory-made firearms) in my most recent video! kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqfVf4ppabFretE

[@Fraulein_Sausageball]

@@NotSenz Thanks!

[@Ceratisa]

Just found this video but the Chosen One calling "Bullshit" on Myron was clearly meant to trigger his ego and make him share what he knows. (you the player wants to know more so you can make a cure)

[@therideneverends1697]

I think you could make alot of this work by also running with the idea "jet" becomes offhand slang in the wasteland for "stimulant" Kind of like how in modern parlance "speed" can mean anything from adderall and vyvance, to dexadrine, desoxyn or crystal meth

[@wantsomerye5537]

There's also the ending slide about Myron that talks about Jet: "Myron died less than a year after the defeat of the Enclave, stabbed by a jet addict while drinking in the Den. His discovery of jet was quickly forgotten, and now there is no one who remembers his name." Another point for his invention of Jet. Bethesda just messed up.

[@Orange_Swirl]

Hoist by his own petard. But Bethesda really screwed up there.

[@znmckague]

Tfw Obsidian puts jet in prewar locations like vault 22 and the big mt before Fo4 was even being developed

[@TheMasterUnity]

@@znmckague People post war have been to both of those locations.

[@LeonGoldMage]

I can see someone didn't watch the full video.

[@ciciciaphascain4143]

@@TheMasterUnity how will you explain pre-war safe containing jet in big mountain ten? It's not a random root either, meaning someone in dev team must intentionally place it there.

[@afungusamungus2860]

An even simpler explanation is that the slang term "Jet" is used for Amphetamine like "Acid" is used for Hallucinogens. And there are many different chems with similar effects and compositions being lumped all together.

[@kovariszt]

The term "acid" is not used to describe any hallucinogens other than LSD (except maybe by children who have no idea about drugs)

[@Trahzy]

Acid is LSD, not all hallucinogens lol

[@SentinelRider]

Jet problem? What about the settlement problem? Another settlement needs you’re help, I’ll mark it on your map!

[@livipup]

I agree about the randomized loot tables allowing chems to appear in strange places not being something to consider canon, but I disagree about the developer statement in the Fallout Bible disproving the idea that Miron didn't actually invent Jet. If the developers made a mistake then it makes sense for them to pick an answer which seems to make more sense while discussing lore. More realistically, people often look down addicts and will often discredit them unfairly or irresponsibly. The reasoning given to believe Miron in the Bible is not necessarily a good one. We also meet Mama Murphy in Fallout 4 who takes all kinds of different chems and has been for many years. In her case, they seemingly haven't damaged her memory or her ability to think clearly. The kid probably did invent Jet, but there is enough room for interpretation to suggest that it's possible he wasn't the first person to do so. It seems even more likely if we consider the lack of access to information that people in the Fallout universe have. There's no Internet, there's no major media networks, and radio is the closest thing people have to long-distance communication technology after the war. We do see in real life that throughout history there have been many cases of people discovering or inventing the same thing both at around the same time or at very different times. So, it's probably not worth anybody getting bent out of shape about not knowing what the truth is. Sometimes, being a bit vague about things makes it more interesting :)

[@zyanidwarfare5634]

I’ve never heard anyone call jet controversial, I’ve only ever met people saying how jet is their favorite chem because you get to be a badass with bullet time

[@ralphpangallo5960]

Myron only refined jet from a pre war drug. Bishops wife also said she was addicted to jet years before Myron invented it. Fallout 2 pretty heavily implies it wasn’t Myron’s creation.

[@ValoTheBrute]

Fallout bible mentions Mrs Bishops thing was an oversight, same as jet being in pre war vaults or safes.

[@ralphpangallo5960]

@@ValoTheBrute Fallout bible isn't canon. Anything taken from there is not an official source.

[@ValoTheBrute]

@@ralphpangallo5960 it's still developer confirmation that it's an oversight and not intentional.

[@ralphpangallo5960]

@@ValoTheBrute From the black isle devs, bethesda has gone on record saying they use fallout 1 and 2 lore as their primary source. The fallout bible as well as spin off games like tactics are non canon that they will consider sometimes in development. Point is that going off all the info provided by fallout 2, jet existed prior to Myron who simply refined it to an even stronger state. It was the fallout bible that retconned it and claimed was an oversight by the devs. Something bethesda is not considering when adding Jet to fallout 3 and 4 locations.

[@ValoTheBrute]

@@ralphpangallo5960 a single dev oversight, that was confirmed to be an oversight Isn't confirmation. By this logic mick and Ralph are cannibals because obsidian used the wrong fridges. It's an oversight. Just like jet appearing in vault 95 and pre war safes The amount of mental gymnastics done to avoid admitting Bethesda could have possibly made a single mistake is insane

[@theghoulboyofficial]

i was not expecting Tino from the weekenders to be the guy that invented jet but here i am

[@jakubkotwica4034]

Would listen to Chris Avalone about it, because his job on F2 was writing all the New Reno.

[@sandwichgaming2002]

Fallout 1 and fallout 2 are the back bone of the fallout story.

[@donutwastaken718]

Absolutely. Not as fun tho.

[@kronk9418]

100 times better than the overrated crap that is NV too.

[@jaysven6153]

@@kronk9418I love 3 and 4. I will say, NV is overall such a bad experience lmao

[@AjHop]

I did not know Myron and Boone were voiced by the same actor but now that I know, I can hear the similarities

[@rpgfluency]

It's also possible that the name "Jet" was created before Myrons formula. The crime family may have known Jet existed and Myron was just trying to recreate an already existing product and there are actually 2 versions of Jet. Myrons ego makes him say he invented Jet, but in reality he was reinventing the old formula.

[@imnotaracistokay]

I agree, he's pretty much the Thomas Edison of fallout

[@eagle_and_the_dragon]

I can appreciate the attempt by fans to try and fix what is, let's be honest, a lack of effort to remain lore consistent by Bethesda.

[@sethleoric2598]

"It's post war!" "It's pre war!" Jet addicts: *on their way to beat a child to death*

[@brandonnelson94]

Wow I need to get around to playing fallout 2. I had no idea the voice acting and world building was like that. Very impressive

[@BlazonStone]

Fallout 1 + 2 rules

[@hazeman671]

Yup! Hit the nail on the head with this video. Great job man. Your last point summed it up perfectly and is the same reason you find bottle caps and pipe weapons in pre-war safes, locations and containers: Bethesda creates generic lootable containers and doesn’t make separate ones for pre-war areas (with pre-war money and chems etc). I think the saddest part is the modicum of extra effort it would’ve taken for them to do that. Really shows their design priorities.

[@croc3862]

I actually kinda get pipe guns in prewar safes. Paranoid hyper cold war future. Makes sense for a couple people to have some unregistered zip guns. And as for caps bottle cap collecting is a thing and I could see someone stashing their misprints in a safe

[@syndicalistcat3138]

@@croc3862 POV: You live in the US and can buy guns everyewhere. Why would so much people go and craft something that would just blow off your hand 99%.

[@croc3862]

@@syndicalistcat3138 have you seen the guns in vanilla fallout 4, I'd sooner trust a zip gun made in an afternoon with hand tools

[@Subject_Keter]

My issue is, they can arrange corpses and crap to tell a story but not make a loot table? Even worst when they talk about Jet in that druggie Vault when how many other drugs could of replaced it? Hell could of been a place to test X-Cell or Calmex.

[@AHungryHunky]

@@Subject_Keter They do have loot tables that vary based on container type, they just don't create ones specific to particular dungeons or areas. As for bodies, as per Todd himself on a recent interview with Lex Fridman, they literally have an "interior decorator" team whose whole job is scattering clutter into dungeons and the overworld, including some loot containers like lockers. They don't design the dungeon, they don't write quests, they probably don't even set the loot tables, they literally just go through and set all the decorations, objects and containers up.

[@demi_narch8674]

Myron made Jet cheaper to produce, that is all.

[@Alexshmalexx]

13:48 you know what else you find in prewar safes? Caps. When did caps begin to become a currency? Post war.

[@deityjc]

Jet's inclusion in places it shouldn't be is clearly just oversight by developers but I think there could be an explanation in-game: it's not the exact same drug. The side effects were known prior to Myron, so what if jet pre-Myron was made in a different process, or what if they lowballed the testing to create a less powerful jet. It might not have taken off due to better alternatives pre-war so it could've been relatively unknown. Angela Bishop could've been using a different drug altogether that was conveniently also called jet. It's not a perfect explanation but it's likely the best we'll ever get.

[@mortache]

Lore is more of a "guideline" than actual law

[@MalfunctioningAndroid]

Bethesda never bothered to study lore. That's why there are many power armor variants, power armor itself is as common as nuka cola and there are super mutants alongside brotherhood paladins everywhere. Same goes for jet.

[@ciciciaphascain4143]

Why is PA having many variants a lore break? OG games never mention that T-51b is the only PA model produce. And it's not as common as nuka cola. You can find only a handful in a container or military checkpoint, you know, the place where it should be? And NV actually has more PA suit sell by trader than in 4. Super mutant and BOS being in the game has lore to it and didn't break any lore. And they make new lore instate of "oh yeah they should've died long ago, but they survive, and they're here now" like in NV with Super mutants and khan.

[@ameno21]

One question: where do they get those Jet dispencers??? Is there a secret factory that is making them???

[@diegotrejos5780]

A novice chemist can make those using garbage plastic so I assume they are very easy to mass produce with low tech, I would worry more about having toxic microplastics in the amphetamines these people consume.

[@killergrooves2438]

Wasn’t expecting Goofy’s son Max to be telling me about how he invented drugs.

[@That__Guy]

I don’t have a Jet problem. I can stop anytime

[@cheeplethebulldog1420]

Theory: Myron might have not been the first person to make Jet, but perhaps he was the first person to perfect a newer, more effective formula. He even says that the previous versions failed, so maybe the Pre War makers were going in the same direction and also had failures. Both of them were making sure that Jet didn’t… ya know… kill the users on doze 1.

[@NotSenz]

It's plausible, if not entirely likely. I'm sure Jet would have been founded anyway if the bombs didn't drop. I think by "previous version", he was referring to pervious versions that he and his lab researchers were making, trying to get the formula correct.

[@cheeplethebulldog1420]

@@NotSenz exactly. The previous versions might have been prototypes. Maybe perhaps Jet is like meth, where there is multiple ways to make it and some of them are discovered by complete accident. Perhaps the method of jet he found out about was simpler but wasn’t purified, which caused the side effects

[@NotSenz]

​@@cheeplethebulldog1420 While researching the video, I ran into one Reddit post where a user suggested that "Jet" could be used used as a slang word in the Fallout universe for amphetamines, which is exactly the kind of chem Myron was trying to create for Redding. (www.reddit.com/r/Fallout/comments/cvne6a/the_lore_problem_with_jet/) To each their own, though. I honestly feel like trying to find a lore reason for the existence of Jet outside of Myron would be a bit of a stretch, at least, until we get some real in-game lore to back it up.

[@Potatoboi732]

@@NotSenz I always thought jet was meth, just renamed to avoid controversy. Kind of like how med x is morphine, mentats are cocaine, buffout is steroids.

[@famoussession7426]

I like how jet's lore is "broken" simply because the loot generation decided to have it be placed in pre-war containers. Freaking hilarious how people look so deep into that.

[@thelonesomedrifter5884]

Vault 95

[@ciciciaphascain4143]

@@thelonesomedrifter5884 Jet in pre-war safe in OWB, Mrs.Bishop addicted to it before Myron born.

[@ded2thaworld963]

Myron is still my favorite fallout companion of all the games, even if he was horrible in combat.

[@Subject_Keter]

I love Sulik and how he just kills Kids for the fun of it in the Den, love that place of Villianly.

[@demigodxhero]

Especially when you play as a female character and he tries to smash you the entire game lmao

[@professorhaystacks6606]

Clearly Myron was forgotten so hard it altered the space-time continuum causing someone else to invent Jet first.

[@NotSenz]

no kidding.

[@TheBaca219]

Trying to consider the loot location from F3 as an indicator of lore is misguided at best. Jet does not have a lore problem, bethesda has a writter/manager problem.

[@NotSenz]

That seems to be the main consensus of most Fallout players.

[@poromafia]

If I remember right this whole thing started due to a vault in 4 having Jet in it's (previously) hidden chem cabinet. If we want to go all lore nut we could say gunners placed it there, but in all honesty those were there due to being a "unique" chem model that's also common enough in the world not to break all loot balance. In 76 a (long dead) person named Doctor Ken had a extremely crude version of jet where it was just "smell the cow fumes!" Raider collectron also mentions jet, but that's just flavor dialogue.

[@Deliveredmean42]

Your mistake was to mention Bethesda 76. Many will instantly account it as none canon anyway.

[@poromafia]

@@Deliveredmean42 I like how some go absolutely insane due to 76. There isn't stuff that is exactly lore breaking, but BoS feels a bit forced even if they have been pretty well explained. If I remember right the canonical ending for the state of West-Virginia is that it gets engulfed by a nuclear firestorm caused by constant nuke dropping.

[@koopliss]

@@Deliveredmean42 Thankfully, those people are morons for calling a game they dislike non-canon, Since excluding the atom shop, 76 is VERY much canon. And those who whine about lore retcons clearly haven't sat down and tried to read anything related to said "retcons"....

[@koopliss]

@@poromafia There currently isn't a canon ending for west virginia anymore since Nuclear winter was made a non-canon thing, That being said, a nuclear firestorm wouldn't surprise me.

[@Deliveredmean42]

@@koopliss See, that's the bethesda problem of changing canon. What was true in the past is no longer the case so they can justified adding these factions to other parts of the worlds because those stuff were iconic to the franchise, not because it makes sense. Tho imagine playing a Fallout game without the brotherhood of steel, or guys with power armor, woudln't that be a nice difference? Of course doing so will require you to come up with something "original" for that locale and making it interesting, but I am sure you can come up with something for it... heck maybe finally get the chance to have vehicles as an late game rpg mechanic.

[@ubergonk]

After Fallout 76 Bethesda put themselves in a position that any and every lore inconsistency or retcon is going to be lambasted by the community, and it's completely their own fault.

[@the_cyberchill]

the real issue is jet on the terminal in fallout 4, everything else I assume is randomized loot pools. and considering that I've noticed some items in world in 76 and possibly 4? unless i've been crazy can be just as randomized not just locations of safes and containers, once cells reset.

[@NotSenz]

I did forget to mention the Vault 95 terminal in the video (not on purpose, there was just a lot that went into the video). After thinking about it, though, I still have the same conclusion that I do about the randomized loot tables, and say that I don't think Bethesda intentionally tried to conflict with the lore from Fallout 2. I feel that this is evidenced by, again, Jet isn't in Fallout 76. Also, just to play devil's advocate. I could imagine a story writer in Fallout 4 writing the story on Vault 95 casually mentioning Jet, and not even giving a second thought about it. Either from forgetting that Jet was post-war, or just entirely not knowing. Fallout 2 was written by a completely different company over a decade ago, so I can honestly forgive them for an inconsistency like that. It depends on the viewer, though. Thank you for your feedback and I hope you liked the video! I went ahead and updated this comment to be the pinned comment on the top of the video, just in case anyone else is thinking the same thing.

[@ciciciaphascain4143]

@@NotSenz Jet is in 76 to. It's mention it's used by blood eagle.

[@tacticalpossum7090]

Ive always assumed that Jet was the name of a drug that provided a certain affect. There's probably all kinds of different recipes for junk wastelanders threw together to get wired.

[@isabellelessard6717]

Excuse me, Fallout 2 "added some pop culture references" is the understatement of the year, I don't think I've gone one quest without some zany reference

[@norikofu509]

I love how Fallout 2 is still talk about after years from its release

[@cheezman487]

It’s a good game

[@BlazonStone]

Because Fallout 1+2 are great

[@kingofworms831]

I thought you were going to get into the problem that selling chems is significantly more useful than ever actually using them. Making a gameplay feature something that people never experience

[@Skullhawk13]

What are you on? Chems are potions. On the highest difficulties drugs can make a fight go from skin of your teeth to barely a sweat. I used Chems like crazy, you can be immune to addiction

[@davidburnett5049]

Adding it to the wrong loot list is always what I figured. Same as pipe rifles being in places they shouldn't

[@MatthewFavorite1927]

I thought that to for a long time until a video pointed out a guns and bullets magazine with a pipe revolver and talking about it being a street gun in Chicago. So I guess because of war time the amount of gun's that are available to citizens is rather small people made pipe weapons pre war to supplement and that carried over Post war

[@davidburnett5049]

@@MatthewFavorite1927 I dont believe that for a minute. Not in America. There are tons of guns. Not counting new ones, just existing ones. No need to jury rig some junk. Especially when that is dangerous.. And make you look like an idiot when its a block if wood with a pipe.. And then to lock it in your rich guy office safe? No. Cant buy it. A few pipe weapons for a few people here and there? Maybe. But lets not be too silly

[@tfordham13]

Nope there pre war supproted by police logs and the drug vault

[@the1eliterhoy757]

As a wasteland Chem Fiend that has been addicted to every kind of Jet(Dixon - Ultra) I can honestly say Jet is not the problem. Chems don't kill people, fiends that think you have Jet do..

[@NewLegacy93]

There’s always the hand wave that although Jet refers to a specific product, it could have just become the household term for several other pre-war drugs that offered the same effect. That doesn’t explain the terminal entry, but it does explain “jet” existing where it shouldn’t in some cases.

[@JamesMJaime]

Jet is basically the Fallout version of vape pens. People already know the effects of cannabis, tobacco, and nicotine, but it takes a genius to create a new device/drug to better extract those chemicals for a better high.

[@genericscout5408]

Does it take a genius to actually accomplish that though? Like when it comes down to it, could be as simple as boiling it in some alcohol. Most people who go through enough organic chemistry would understand how to extract the substance. It might take a genius if he didn't know what organic chem was. But if you read a few textbooks play with some chemicals it's not impossible to achieve by random chance.

[@JamesMJaime]

@Generic Scout This is a post-apocalyptic setting where normal people don't even know what a fish is, so I'd say coming up with something like that is genius. If you gave normal people this information they wouldn't know what to do with it.

[@croc3862]

I only have a problem with jet being found in sealed up prewar buildings. Otherwise fair game to be found, it could easily be explained as well by some people just stashing stuff in prewar safes and forgetting about it

[@NotSenz]

I agree. I'm sure that someone could make a mod to fix loot tables in "pre-war" containers if there isn't one already.

[@DJWeapon8]

Yup. Same here. Hell. I can accept that the devs admit that the vault 95 prewar jet shipment was an oversight and remove it in a patch. Instead, their VP for Marketing insulted fans and the series founding devs and writers for pointing this out.

[@NotSenz]

Could you provide a link, please? That's crazy.

[@DJWeapon8]

@@NotSenz more tweets responding to pete hines, and by extension bethesda's, uncaring attitude towards the lore. www.eteknix.com/bethesdas-pete-hines-doesnt-care-realistic-things-fallout-4/amp/