Family Obligations: Crash Course Philosophy #43

[@PaperRaines]

"Children begin by loving their parents; after a time they judge them; rarely, if ever, do they forgive them." ~Oscar Wilde

[@ValGOPLock]

I'm going to comment so that I can refer back to this when the time comes

[@e-agjohn8176]

It's very true. I had a talk lately, my parents gave me a shitty childhood, I've been an adult for a few years now, and they sorta reconciled, appologized and changed their way. But there is simply something there that is not letting me forgive them.

[@boysteacher3818]

@@e-agjohn8176 You still have to forgive them regardless. They just didn't know any better, or had other reasons why they did that, but they are still humans regardless that makes mistakes. Your feelings of contempt towards them is absolutely valid, its ok to feel that way.

[@fukofffukwits]

​@@boysteacher3818 NO forgiveness is not required.

[@AvailableUsernameTed]

Parent License Exam: Q1. What do babies drink? A) Whiskey B) Milk C) Baby Formula D) B or C E) All of the above.

[@Katalystic]

A

[@Doomroar]

Man whose dumbass designed this test? clearly everyone knows that babies drink vodka, whiskey is for pregnant women!

[@quantumperception]

Tabasco sauce? Gasoline? Mr. Clean? It's one of those... I can't remember which. It's been months since I've seen my 25 kids, but they're around here somewhere. Drinking all my damn gasoline!

[@lizsmith247]

Pipe2DevNull B or C

[@charact_r6929]

Pipe2DevNull Trick question, the answer is rum. Did I pass?

[@Zerepzerreitug]

Say hello at 6:34 to the stock footage of an old couple drinking wine xD

[@vinayakpandey1032]

We've been here too long😂

[@TheMan83554]

I'd say conditional is better. If your parents were manipulative, abusive, oppressive, or generally uncaring. Then they lose any claim they had to your time and care. Otherwise, even if you don't really like them, you should suck it up and help anyway cause it's generally good and responsible to help your family.

[@Wineclaw]

If you want to create a life You've got to be qualified Now you need to earn it. If you want to propagate First prove you can educate Parental Procreation Permit

[@aluke7948]

Such an excellent series. I hope it doesn't end anytime soon!

[@metabeard3788]

Whoa, I was just talking with my sisters about this over the holidays. Not sure about the parenting license thing, but the discussion over obligations and family social contracts is really interesting.

[@PatrickHogan]

Aside from the obvious freedom issues with parent licenses, I can certainly write on a test that if the speed limit is fifty-five, that's how fast I can go, but it doesn't mean I won't speed. I can say on paper that I'd be the perfect parent, but it doesn't mean I will be.

[@osimmac647]

i think we can all agree that there is a baseline to how a kid should be raised and thats all the license would prove; that you are competent to raise a child. otherwise who you are, how you raise them, what you teach them is all on you. it would only be there to help prevent people from having kids without being able to care for them properly.

[@dmczx]

the problem with the licence, and, I guess, one of the reasons why governaments won't go that way, is the fact that sometimes the pregnancy is unwanted, in certain reality the abortion is moraly stigmatized or just impossible without risks, so these births will have to be managed from the state, which means costs and very difficult management nontheless the risk to not be able to find adoptive parents, and many more complications. good lesson, love your channel :)

[@PhillipWrigley]

Human relationships, fundamentally, are based in reciprocity. I am not friends with someone because of a contract, I am their friend because we reciprocate, whether it is feelings, favors, gifts, or anything else. That reciprocation is often delayed, and that is part of the relationship. Adult-Child relationships, whether parent or teacher, do not assume reciprocity; we parent and teach because it is good for the child. That said, once the child is grown and actualized, it is a moral good for that now adult to reciprocate what they received in whatever ways they can.

[@anavii12]

I actually thought of the parenting license before. Never knew there was a philosopher who thought of it already! I agree with this. Some people just can't be parents.

[@thomasgangemi7259]

Parental licenses is something you'd see in a dystopian sci-fi movie.

[@KeyMan137]

5:54 I think society would be much better if parents could obtain a license to show their competency in raising children. I would gladly seek to obtain a parenting license if it would potentially make me a better parent. However, I don't think most people "need" it; and enforcing policies regarding the license would be very difficult. There are many details that would need to be worked out.

[@roseylonelymo]

Having parent licenses is a huge inconvenience. Having parents with different mindsets instead of testing people on how we think they should raise their child is absurd. Different backgrounds allows for variations and individualism between people. And although there is bad and abusive parents out there. We should instead teach people not to do that in the first place and give help and punishment to those who are abusers. And help for the abused.

[@arielcurra7647]

What a nice anecdote that of John !

[@WpnofIndmtblemht]

What if parents did bear/raise/provide for you through childhood, as an investment? Expecting returns (real or imagined) down the line? It is not inconceivable, and real world examples can easily be found.

[@benroth6951]

I understand the idea behind requiring prospective parents to get licensed, but a law without any reliable method of enforcement causes more problems than anything. Regardless of whether people have the right to be parents, they definitely are capable of procreating. If an application were to be rejected, what's to stop the couple from just doing it anyways? Unless the government were to violate a lot of personal rights, there's no way to stop this from happening.

[@SecretKeeper222]

Definitely depends on the parents and the relationship. Every relationship is different. My relationship with my mother is not equal to your relationship with your mother. My relationship to my mother isn't even the same as my siblings relationship with our mother.

[@NoahTopper]

Good video. It sounds mean, but I tend to think that if you don't get along with your family, or you don't have much in common with them, you don't really have to spend time with them. It would seem strange if we thought of any other relationship like that.

[@jedi22300]

A lot of people are talking about the parenting license as a license to *breed*, but I don't think that's what it is. The license if for parenting, not giving birth to children. I think if this system was to be implemented, it would be a test taken after giving birth and would determine if the biological parents get to raise the child or not. If they fail the test, the child will be put up for adoption. This way, we don't run into the issue of the rights that we have over our bodies, but still prevent children from becoming abused.

[@KookieWee]

My parents joke about only having kids so someone will take care of them when they're old and senile, but I think that view kind of makes sense - from an unconditional view, I owe little to nothing to my parents NOW, but because they took care of me when I was weak and small I should similarly take care of them when they again become weak and frail elderly people.

[@GregTom2]

I think parenting licenses overall are not that difficult to conceive. Just have some advertising, and have the punishment be fines on the tax return. Give doctors free pamphlets for doctors to give young women or pregnant women. Make it easy to get for the first 5 years then incrementally more significant. Women who are already pregnant or already have a child and failed the test in good faith should be spared the fines if they register for a retake of the test and classes. What exactly would the test measure though? That's the big question. What knowledge is necessary to be good parents? - A medical check up and screening for genetic or infectious diseases that can be passed to children? (for the parent's information only, or would they 'fail' parents on that?) - Evidence based information about drugs, alcohol and supplements during lactation and pregnancy? - Evidence based information about diapers, baby food, car safety, sudden death of infants, and post-partum depression? - Who has to pass the test? Either parent or both? - Drug use tests? - Would it be ok for the tests to implicitly require basic reading ability, requiring at least one parent to be able to read and write? - Age limits? - Income limits? - Values? Where do you draw the line? I'm not saying it can't be drawn. But many people will have different points of view.

[@MakeMeThinkAgain]

After reading through these comments maybe I should mention that Schrödinger wasn't really going to lock the cat in a steel chamber.

[@Haleyncasey]

In a parent child relationship: the parent has responsibility. The child does not. No obligations for a child. Ever. This doesn't mean it wouldn't be beneficial to society or to the child to give back to their parents and care for them. However, it would be their own choice to do so. Just like it was the parents choice (or fault) to have a child (and incur the responsibilities).

[@Rantttt87]

Family, altruism, ethics of care... CC Philosophy went from being abstract to personal in a real hurry.

[@erikziak1249]

5:57 Does everyone have the right to be a parent? I would ask a different question. If we make these tests obligatory, and some people qualify to have children, but they choose not to have them, do we as a society have the right to demand that they mate? Imagine you have a license but you do not have kids because you want to work on your career and other people start to treat you based on that, for better or worse. So I would rephrase the question: Does everyone who qualifies to be a good parent have the obligation to be one? And by this I do not mean just biological parent. Also, the only thing I owe my parents is the loan they gave me when I was buying my flat. I am paying them back each month. Most of the money is loaned from the bank anyway. They provided about 20% of the overall amount, interest-free. My plan was to pay them back in 7 years, now with my job situation, maybe it will be stretched, but I hope that will not be necessary.

[@afrikasmith1049]

The idea of creating a law where people have to get a parenting license could open the door to other ideas that could lead to less freedom and even facist ideas. Also human nature and society doesn't work in a way where you need a license to experience life. If you really want stop bad parenting, create more programs for parenting and education on abstinence because the last thing we need is more children being put into foster homes that is just as bad or worst. And no, not all foster homes are bad but not all children are going to be put into a good foster homes.

[@galit6440]

I LOVE the new approach and topics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@magdalenaos8215]

And who would decide what answers in that "parent test" are correct?

[@Haleyncasey]

you don't have any obligations to your parents (as a kid or as a grown up), because they took on a responsibility in having you, and therefore they had obligations to raise you due to the responsibilities they have taken on by having a child (even if the pregnancy wasn't planned, everyone has an understanding of what kind of sex can result, and has a risk of pregnancy). you on the other hand, had no choice in being born, or being born to the parents you have, therefore if you choose to give back to your parents, those actions are actions of charity and not duty.

[@nicolasoare8072]

WE NEED A LINCENSE for having kids!!! That is the best idea I've ever heard

[@katiefoster3047]

I don't think caring more for people close to you makes you care any less for strangers. There are 4-10 people I would take a bullet for, but I would try to care for anyone who got shot. You can love and care intensely for close friends and family, but still be a decent person to strangers on the other side of the world. Why would those things be mutually exclusive?

[@akinotbunny]

I feel like I'm from a quite different perspective than many others in the comment. I love my parents and they love me, so I feel sorry if some parents indeed are good to their children but they don't love them back. I always feel my love to my parents is much less than what they gave to me, and it feels pretty awkward and somewhat guilty. Therefore I genuinely hope there are some obligations on me so that I will use the rest of my life to love my parents and at least I can say I have the duty. Otherwise it just adds more to my guilty feeling, as if me, as a child, is just like a wind that will blow away sooner or later from my parents' life. It just feels so unfair to my parents.

[@saqibqureshi7959]

Parents should be licensed...as you mentioned adoptive parents go under heavy scrutiny and examination before given a child. So why do biological parents only have to do the deed to get what they kinda sorta want.

[@drizzydreamrrr]

Intense.

[@Patgfpmuller]

The Selfish Gene- Richard Dawkins. Read it. Basically says we look out for those with a closer genetic make up to us, because if they have more of a chance to have kids, there's more people out there with a similar genetic makeup to us. Also the stock footage of the old couple drinking wine is my favourite. Drink wine whenever you see it.

[@dishanabeysinghe1975]

+CrashCourse , whats the difference between the "friendship" school and "unconditional" school. Does the unconditional philosophy imply an obligation?

[@katpricot]

Hey Hank! I was wondering if you guys would consider an episode about Twin Telepathy, it's a really interesting subject and I'd love to see what you guys think about it! Loves!

[@ryuukatamura]

this view is pretty western-centric

[@naseringli]

maybe not parent licenses but obligatory parenting workshops once you're having a child?

[@davidt0504]

YES! Parenting license need to be a thing.

[@hamd098]

oh boy... here we go..

[@Medquill]

The quote is the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. Meaning that the bonds made by choice are stronger than those of circumstance in birth...

[@crunch1757]

To me I owe my parents everything since that's what they gave me

[@sundew42]

The idea of a “parent license” is flawed because what was acceptable parenting 50 to 100 years ago is now unacceptable, and what is now “acceptable parenting” will continue to change over time. Attempting to regulate parenthood in this way has the potential to result in a stagnation of human and cultural development.

[@ksmudin]

I like the idea of parent licenses, but think the policy would be completely unenforceable in practice. Humans are designed to reproduce, so unless the governing body was able to control one's ability to reproduce, they would have no way to make parent licenses compulsory.

[@declancooney4809]

When there is a cut to Flash Philosophy, the flash goes off and there is a green alien-esque character that appears at the top left row. Is this guy part of one of the episodes that I missed? Or just an easter egg?

[@wezul]

Personally I think testing and licensing people before they're allowed to procreate sounds good in theory. But like many things, it could be terribly abused in practice. As others have mentioned, it would be hard to get a consensus on what qualifies as "good parenting". For example, my sister in laws think it's perfectly reasonable to feed their (very young) children mostly McDonalds and Pizza "because that's what they'll eat" and "they'll probably grow out of it and eat healthy as adults." Whether or not that's actually true, and while I do think kids should have some say over what they eat, and shouldn't be forced to eat stuff they hate - I think such an unhealthy diet is a really terrible decision. And in fact I disagree with a lot (or even most) of the decisions my sister in laws make about their kids, but they're not my kids, so it's not really my business. But more to the point, this type of system could be readily abused, and similar systems HAVE been abused in the past. Such a system enacted by a mostly white-male dominated society could easily skew any qualifications exam to disadvantage people of color, or foreign-born people, for example. So even if we could agree on what makes a good parent, it would be hard to ensure that the test was fair for everyone, as demonstrated by the current political climate in the US. TL;DR - I like the idea in theory, but in practice it's far too problematic.

[@daddyleon]

Care Ethics is just an elloquent way to agrue against basically all other secular ethical theories, an elloquent way to justify the feelings you have.

[@mattisvov]

I would post that you do not owe your parent's anything because they already got something out of the deal: A child is an end into itself. A biological imperative. Unless your parents are complete assholes, the best gift you could give them is flourishing yourself, since you are their legacy. Also, giving back ALL the care and resources your parents gave you is simply impractical. Kids take a humongous effort, and you will never be able to give that back. If you feel you owe your parents anything, then repay that to your own children, who in turn pass that on to their own children, and so on. And if you don't have children, well, then just spread that love around.

[@derkarlotto]

parenting license would make it way too easy for legislatures to make it illegal for people under a certain IQ to have children, or people with genetic diseases/disorders. and you open a whole can of worms about what life is worth living. however I think there should be free parenting courses from the state. an American nurse told me that they don't even keep the mother and her newborn in the hospital until they are sure she can take of it. and then they'll have dozens of mothers come back with a malnourished baby after a few days/weeks. I think you shouldn't send the parent home, until feeding works without problems, they have bathed and changed the baby on their own etc. that's how we do it in Germany. on another topic: I personally really don't like being reminded of my past, because I'm not that person anymore. Maybe that's, why I don't enjoy family meetups.

[@lonestar98]

I like the idea of parent certifications, but a person cannot be denied the right to have a child if the qualifications aren't met. So rather than testing the abilities how about a sort of crash course briefing the significance of parenting and raising new life.

[@pramitbanerjee]

ah, really drives home the point that hank is a parent now

[@Unassuming_Gay]

Then we should instead educate everyone equally in raising children, without actually taking measures to prevent parenthood. If we, as a society incur in our obligation of morally teaching everyone how to raise a children, and let everyone have a children, we would solve many parenting problems without incurring into prejudice. At the same time, a more active department of social services would also mitigate some of the problems for the rest of the parents left that are too dumb or cruel for their children.

[@maddyexplores2190]

I love this video. When I was growing up, my father and stepmother kept a tally of things we owed them. They constantly berated me and reminded me of how weird I was. My father was then shocked (I'm not sure if this was genuine or another one of their favourite gas lighting techniques) when, as an adult, I didn't just run for the hills, I sprinted.

[@TheEndless8]

"And what's more, your parents didn't provide for you with the expectation of a payout." - 2:51 They do. A lot of traditional (and I mean religious/cultural-wise) Asian parents do.

[@devvydoodles5232]

while this is relatively true I think that this idea is typically thought after childbirth, when their in school or when they realize their child is smart or have that potential and can become rich but I'm sure that once they've decided not to abort them they are not thinking about the cash they can receive from them, therefore the theory still apllies,

[@123n704123]

not only asian I think it is a common theme across the global south ...region of the world with less wealth.

[@bogiarmija6790]

My parents literally see me as pension fund, because their own will collapse

[@jiayunlim]

What about in the good ol days when kings/lords had children for the sake of having on of them succeed their seats/thrones? Or people who have children to have enough hands to help out in the farm?

[@kalebg.7507]

The actual quote about blood being thicker than water is misinterpreted. The original saying was blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. So, bonds made in battle are worth more than simply genetics.

[@SpeartonMan]

Seriously? Didn't know that

[@MayannHanna]

Now that's interesting. Thanks.

[@NeufeldIan]

Got an actual literary source on that?

[@kalebg.7507]

Ian Neufeld If you don't believe me, just look it up yourself.

[@NeufeldIan]

I have, and all references lead nowhere. I haven't found a single literary source that dates that meaning of the expression back more than a handful of years. So I'm asking if you know of one.

[@maddieyay]

Did John actually try to dry his socks in a frying pan?

[@adolfodef]

It was probably the brother or sister of whoever writes the scripts (or the editor who filters stuff, or the producer who will deny the episode if their anecdote is not included...)

[@Dailylilyful]

I did it once. I'm not proud.

[@andy4an]

I wouldn't want my kids to feel guilted into spending time with me, or doing something (like having my grandkids) for me. Seems like a pretty shitty relationship if they only hang out with me out of guilt.

[@Nat-gh9qk]

Lol, who else wouldn't have been born if they had an enforced parenting license law? XD

[@queenbedamnedsheiba]

Yea, but it's not necessarily a bad thing...

[@Shrugboatt]

@@queenbedamnedsheiba says the home girl who got to be born

[@queenbedamnedsheiba]

@@Shrugboatt I've argued against the wisdom of that

[@Shrugboatt]

@@queenbedamnedsheiba I've noticed that people who are okay with others not living or ironically say "yeah maybe I shouldn't have been born" actually enjoy being alive quite a bit, as they should. Living is awesome.

[@natka93b]

@@Shrugboatt uhum, if you are healthy born and preferably "1st worlder". (which i am, too by the way). I've seen people around whose life is pure suffering. because of child abuse, alcholol abuse, complete lack of love, or other more objective measures; such as lethal illnesses that weck havoc on you till you die. (if you happen to be bor with one). I still value life per se, i still think some people's lives are hell due to their genetical code, or due to lack of basic education or any kind of decent living conditions provided by parents. moreover i sense that majority of people have kids because they wont to "fullfill something" in their life and not let tchem live freely and experience life. and then (especially and primarly) when they have bad realtionship themselves they make this disgusting family constelation of "loving son or daughter more than actual spouse".. i've seen so many Times.. i wished only certain and worhty of it people would be fertile(and i don't mean myself, i dont care if i am cause i dont plan on having kids, its a personal choice, it doesnt mean i hate them or anything, theyre usualy a victim of the whole game).. it would reduce so much suffering in this world

[@emmagyoung2940]

The real question is what would we put on the those tests? What would be considered morally right for children?

[@aliceb2849]

Mental health check, and questions about raising a child and how to deal with problems that may arise. Also, how to deal with selfish feelings of frustration and anger, and how to not take them out of the child. I'm assuming free classes would teach the specifics.

[@emmagyoung2940]

Alice Sarah Beck That's a good idea

[@meropestarr2073]

SangoProductions213 Wow, it's so edgy I cut myself

[@drizzlingrose]

if your child turned out to be disabled or have other kinds of socially uacceptable difficulty would you still love and care for them? Strongly Disagree - Disagree - Agree - Strongly Agree.

[@dvklaveren]

+Alice Sarah Beck While this sounds good in theory, when given a general description in politics, "mental health checks" can translate to a lot of trouble for people with relatively innocent mental healthy deviancies, such as people with high-functioning autism or ADD. Recently, for my driver's license, I had to have an interview with a doctor and pay significantly for that interview. I had to explain that I have PDD-nos within the autism spectrum, that I don't have a lot of trouble, unless it's a very specific situation. Also, I use ritalin, because PDD-nos often comes with ADD-like symptoms. I was almost refused outright by the system, because the laws were not up to date with healthcare practices that often proscribes ritalin for people with PDD-nos. I was able to produce a diagnosis of ADD just in time, but that sort of thing happens more often than you'd think. I think that there's a very real chance that the ignorance of politicians putting these kinds of licenses in place could lead to people like myself being unable to raise children with the same mental deviance that they themselves can best identify with.

[@damondominique]

I *didn't ask* to be here.

[@brycxio]

So how exactly would you prevent people from having kids before they got their license

[@ezequiellopez8518]

t.c.a.w Exposed law would certainly help but it would not be a definite solution.

[@theploymaker]

t.c.a.w Exposed We dont technically prevent people from driving cars before they have a license either

[@tesso.6193]

that's the problem, it would imply using mandetory temporary sterilization on early teens or something like china's one child policy but much more selective. and what if you got a a kid with no licence? are they just gonna take him/her away? Are they sending to jail or subjecting you to a fine? All solutions seem immoral but the concept itself isnt'

[@NeufeldIan]

If fining someone or sending them to jail seems immoral, what system of justice are you using?

[@annyongpanda]

ID databases and mandatory blood tests for parental identification. No child born without parental identification in the hospital would be legal. It's not like there isn't already a problem with children born without a birth certificate, but then at least then there would be an effort to educate people on the mechanics of child rearing.

[@TokyoTraveller]

I would be for the parental licensing idea, if not for the fact that it can easily turn into a eugenics program

[@Carlos-fb6bv]

Monday's are awesome only because of CC Philosophy

[@virrr2178]

KingInfinity +

[@Udinanon]

+

[@illdie314]

I like the CC Philosophy and return of the philip defranco show from the weekend

[@yaelpenina]

+

[@isabellabornberg2153]

KingInfinity +

[@calska140]

"isn't blood thicker than water?" Technically, yes. But the axiom, "blood thicker than water", means the opposite of how everybody uses it. The original saying is: "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" Basically; the people you choose to have in your life are more important than familial obligations.

[@botigamer9011]

My counter-argument: blood is thicker than water, but maple syrup is thicker than blood, so can I have my pancakes please

[@henryyin2471]

@@botigamer9011 Well in that case, I observe that the density and the viscosity of magma or lava is higher than water, blood, or maple syrup. Therefore, I have a higher loyalty to the core of the earth and volcanoes. Also, what about neutron stars and black holes. (I know that was a joke please no woosh)

[@stefanieallworth3622]

Parents licenses would be awesome. Problem is, it would be difficult to stop people from having kids without a license. It would also need to include a psychological evaluation .. as a person who was neglected badly as a child I have to really praise you and thank you for this episode. So many people tell me I should feel obligations toward my family, because they supplied me (if not with enough) with material goods. I have had so many people trying to make me feel guilty. It is nice to hear a different answer, which reflects so many points. Thank you for making such a helpful episode.

[@ireallyhatemakingupnamesfo1758]

Diaper spelled backwards is repaid

[@mgraham0160]

OH MY GOOOOOOOOD!

[@electrum5579]

I have to rethink life now! 48.73% serious.

[@mjvictoria.sidetracks]

LOOMYNARTY CONFIRMED

[@brycxio]

to perfect

[@MrCrashDavi]

+

[@soonny002]

I'm Asian. My parents think I owe them everything including money, time, attention, and even making important life choices. Lol. Good thing I left them and never looked back.

[@nexus8796]

Do you have siblings or are you an only child?

[@maevab2923]

@Mr. & Mrs Smith so they have someone to rely on.

[@Xellos976]

@@maevab2923 If they're asian they probably have enough saved up to last 2 lifetimes anyway.

[@maevab2923]

@@Xellos976 I'm not talking about money but emotional support

[@prime_time_youtube]

Moral of the story: Abandoning your parents is the best option... LOL! I can think many better options without leaving them and "never looking back."

[@Master_Therion]

I misread the title as "Family Obliterations..." I recently watched the Red Wedding Game of Thrones episode.

[@zcwan5349]

Master Therion oh my God

[@zcwan5349]

Master Therion *tries not to cry* *Cries a lot*

[@Georgeilocks]

Master Therion *Rains of Castamere*

[@zcwan5349]

I only started watching GoT this month (and I finished it this month as well) and the red wedding was .... one of the most messed up moments of GoT.

[@Georgeilocks]

Zoey S. I knew it was going to happen and it still caught me off guard

[@thevansoh]

My mum is going to kick me out of my house in one year, this really helped me get some perspective... thanks

[@boysteacher3818]

2 months left till your kicked out

[@kimhsamh7024]

"your house"? then why is she kicking you out! anyway hopefully the covid-19 lock-down might buy you some more time huh?

[@senorpants5604]

I don't know your situation but, if she does the bare-minimum for you, you do the bare minimum for her.

[@brokenrecord3523]

Are you, like, 35 and a 27th level dungeon master?

[@illdie314]

I like the idea of parent licenses to an extent, though I feel like many would consider that to be too intrusive of the government. At that point, for example, you could weed out people with certain views who would raise their kids to have their own perspectives, almost selectively breeding schools of thought. If parent licenses were to be a thing, we would have to make it as transparent and decentralized a process as possible.

[@neil6685]

I think it's more along the lines of HOW you treat the child not what they think.

[@Luffy453]

I absolutely agree with you. I even might add that the parents-to-be are allowed to repeat the licensing exam as much as necessary - someday, all the pedagogical knowledge will be stuck in their head. And with transparency and maybe yearly (or every five years or so) check-up´s, many problems and mistreatments could be prevented, leading the children to grow up to decent human beings - the plan to improve society

[@rajadhirajmaharaj]

What is the name of that philosopher? Hue Lafalat? I searched google found no result on that name.

[@Luffy453]

Actually, he is called Hugh LaFollette. Just activate the subtitles, it´s written there.

[@MichaelRicksAherne]

Probably still a bad idea for the same reasons a license to vote is a bad idea.

[@unemployedbean]

Im asexual, i brought myself into this world, and only i can take myself out.

[@sirBrouwer]

unemployedbean like a bacteria? if so then you do have a sibling that will be your only direct family.

[@unemployedbean]

sirBrouwer all of my siblings are clones of myself

[@callummctavish9939]

or are you clone of them?

[@thewpbard]

If you and one of your siblings are together somewhere and you're clones, does this mean you're beside yourself?

[@tsmwukong5302]

same

[@michelleslay2701]

"Blood of the covenant is thicker than water of the womb"

[@lucidity1]

I'd take a middle of the road approach. you are required to follow parenting courses upon expecting a child. were not going to license parenthood. essentially speaking you hope that what was taught at these courses sticks and benefits the child. and if not, well we still have child protective services in place. the focus of such courses should be to provide parents with tools not to dictate them on how to raise their children.

[@Ebakoba]

lucidity Who is going to pay for those courses? What would be punishment if you do not opt in?

[@lucidity1]

the state and a fine... 1% of discretionary was 11.1bilion (in 2015) dollars that would more than pay for it and all you have to do is spend only 53% on the military instead. hopefully, this will limit the number of cases child protective services will have to deal with and these savings can offset the costs of these courses. the punishment is obviously a fine anything more is complete overkill. don't ask questions you could have easily answered by yourself, please.

[@quantumperception]

+lucidity...because the kind of people who have unplanned pregnancies and would need those classes are exactly the type of people who pay attention in mandatory state education.

[@quantumperception]

+Cycling in Edmonton from the Eyes of a Teen What if they are too poor to visit the doctor that often, and live in a country wherein healthcare is not covered by the state? That plan would seem to suggest that the poor are unfit to be parents, because they cannot afford to take their child to the doctor so often (likely only go if something is wrong, not for semi-annual check-ups). Wouldn't that essentially be only allowing people to raise children if they meet a certain income requirement (enough money to pay for frequent medical bills)? Seems like a slippery slope, until medical care is provided by the state.

[@Ebakoba]

lucidity How big will that fine be? And whats the point of that fine anyway, too punish those who are in financially difficult situation even more? Furthermore, why would state have to pay for that. It's you that wants to have a child not a state. And do not even get started on that he will become taxpayer one day, because unless you want to enforce serfdom, you cannot really expect that. It's funny how in almost everything child related socialist claim to know and care the best. Whether it is education or even right to have children. I think evolutionary instincts to take great of our offsprings and empathy for also children in need has got us so far, and it would be stupid too enforce something on whole population because some fringe cases. And finally as education has clearly shown to USA, parents deciding what is best for their children on avarage leads to much better results then to have state make those desicions for you.

[@ianrbuck]

OLD PEOPLE CLINKING GLASSES! My favorite stock footage!

[@ShipOfFreaks]

somehow i grew up feeling that english's view was self-evidently true...

[@numbo655]

I think this depends on where you live. In countries like Scandinavia this mindset is much more common than e.g. the US. One reason for this is that it is much more expensive to have a child in the US than in Scandinava. In the US parents can say, look at how much money I had to spend on education and taking care of you - now you have to take care of me. In Scandinavia, healthcare and education is free so it makes no sense for parents to talk like this.

[@HughDingwall]

I have two issues with the idea of "parenting licenses": 1) Being a "good parent" *sounds* like something we ought to be able to agree on, but I can see it getting tricky. People already disagree regularly about corporal punishment and religious education (just to name two topics off the top of my head) and anyone who is a parent currently (me, for example) can tell you that pretty much any decision you make for your kids will net you criticism from somewhere. *Tl;dr "good parenting" is not an uncontroversial topic, so who gets to decide what it is?* 2) The reason gun, hunting, fishing, and driving licenses all work is that those are activities you have to consciously opt into. You can become a parent (or at least a prospective parent) entirely by accident (in fringe cases you don't even need to have sex with anyone). How does our prospective license handle people who became prospective parents by accident or against their will, and who fail the test?

[@HughDingwall]

For what it's worth, I agree with you on those. My point was just that a lot of people don't (and some people view the absence of things like religious education and corporal punishment as damaging to children) so getting a consensus on what "good parenting" looks like from a legislative level is probably going to be tricky.

[@aliceb2849]

I feel that it would be best if the test focused more on how to deal with certain aspects of raising a child- like a child's specific needs at different ages, how to deal with stress/not take it out on the child, the scientifically proven most efficient ways to teach a lesson, how NOT to spoil your child, a basic check on the individual's worth ethic and priorities, the test should also check for mental health and motivations for having a kid.

[@bigbrotherbulmasimp2447]

That won't stop us stubborn humans from trying.

[@Doomroar]

But you see there are some clear case of bad parenting cases that could be avoided if we had test that could profile and help prevent certain people from getting their hands on kids from the start, for example homes with signs of drug abuse, excessive violence, or even sexual abuse, in fact we already enforce this taking their kids away, but this happens after the fact, with parenting licenses we could apply prevention.

[@SangoProductions213]

From my comment: You run in to the problem of "how do you enforce the rule?" Where...like...OK, do you force them to have an abortion? That sounds wrong. Do you take the child away if they don't pass the test before the baby leaves the hospital? A bit more reasonable. I mean, if they can't pass the test after 9+ months of classes and testing...I wouldn't want anyone raised by them then. (Assuming the test was fair and actually about welfare of the child, and not some sort of political...wait...a law that isn't political. Nvm.)

[@dave5194]

Parenting licence would be great in a Utopian world, not so much in the real world. It would be very difficult to enforce. Not everyone would go through the trouble, and what about those having coitus for pleasure and accidentally cause pregnancy without taking a parenting test? Are they required to abort? Would we have to orphan all the illegally born kids? I suppose we could create a widespread stigma​ in society against those who illegally birth children. But that still wouldn't fix it, and it can't just be a test people are required to take at say 18, because a person's fit for parenthood changes over time as their situation changes.

[@SangoProductions213]

my comment on the issue kzbin.info/www/bejne/pmjGgKqHhql8bdE&lc=z13bfnnzlrvgy1oud23qg15jjxiti12ye04

[@Moon-ki4rd]

David -flamingsword1 Good points

[@user-hy1lm2rd9q]

For me accidental preganancy should be treated like this: The couple (or single mom) should first be examined (as in see the economic backgrounds and if family members will help), then take a couple of tests to see their knowledge on the subject. If they don't pass, they take classes (they have 9 months, so they'll find time), and do so until they pass. What happens if they don't pass? well, that's a pickle. I guess it would have to be examined case by case what they lack. If they lack knowledge, then more classes. If they look like they wouldn't take care of their kids (hence neglected child) then I think adoption would be the best. Think about it, if the parents really wanted the kids, they would do their all to pass (it's not like the process would be difficult, as no one is a prefect parent. But at least common sense, basic knowledge and show that you CARE). If you do not pass after all this, then you'd just make your kid's life miserable. As for ensuring that your parents are licensed, they should present the paper for when you get a passport, apply you to schools, get you a credit card or things like that. This way you'll ensure most parents are licensed. As for illegally born kids, when the parents are caught, they should first pay a fine, (this will promote people to gte licensed first) and after that all the process I explained before (of examination and exams), they go on with their lives. Plus, I think the license should be free, or at least the cost should depend on how much you earn, so that poor people that are still capable of raising kids should be allowed. In the end, the ones who do not get the license are those who didn't care enough, ergo, those who won't care about their kids. I believe something like this would be wonderful, as it would help in the prevention of abused or neglected kids, because, more often than not, these cases are discovered too late, when the damage has already been done.

[@GregTom2]

You're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. "Oh, so it seems you're pregnant. You have to register yourself using this website -or- call this number. If you don't follow the procedure, you will be fined on your tax returns so do think of doing it". "So it seems that you failed the test but tried in good faith. You can avoid the fines by scheduling a second try on the exam within the next 6 months. Remember, all you need to study is in _this_ booklet. Moreover, we offer free parenting classes for young parents that failed the test. Would you like to register with one of our counselors?" "You've failed to register for a take back of your test and had to pay the parenting fine. Remember, for the second year the fine will double. Make sure to register for a take back of the test". "So, you've failed the test several times. We'd like you to be able to meet two of our agents. They can go to your place. Yes, it's mandatory to avoid the fines." "Well Mrs. [...] we think you would benefit from a follow up with your psychiatrist. Do you need help arranging that?" etc. etc. Just pass an add on TV starting the year before it start: "Planning a pregnancy, from [that date] forward, a mandatory check up with a doctor and written test will be necessary. Ask your doctor about [...] or visit [...].gov. A message from [...]".

[@dave5194]

GregTom2​ Hm, yeah, I could see that. I wonder if something like that ever did become reality, how much it would affect crime rate and poverty

[@chinesemimi]

Did John really dry his socks with a frying pan? lmao

[@bensjammin9]

Mish. Michelle Or John lol

[@chinesemimi]

edited thanks

[@Ermude10]

apparently...Good to know! ;)

[@vaylonkenadell]

You don't owe anything to your abusers.

[@Librarymania]

I didn't choose the thug life. The thug life chose me. However, I am not obligated to the thug life, because I didn't do anything to incur an obligation to the thug life.

[@adamthornton7880]

I want to love my family out of love, not out of "moral obligation".

[@ireallyhatemakingupnamesfo1758]

A big problem with the parenting license is that it has such heavy and obvious room for abuse, there are eugenics arguments only a slippery slope down from there

[@RobertTLongway]

I really hate making up names for this kind of stuff - That's not even considering the possibility that the number of children you could have could be limited by the government as well

[@zengamer321]

+Kathryn Mercier Eugenics is a magic word that scares people so just drop that word anytime to win.

[@crystalr2277]

And what do you mean by that Kathryn...?

[@tidescent]

You know that slippery slope is a logical fallacy, right? It's not a valid philosophical argument-it uses fear to avoid actually entertaining an idea by asserting that it could or must lead to some bad extreme. Just because a license for parenting is being proposed doesn't mean that the requirements for such a license have to be based on class, race, whatever. It could be based on the actual ability to raise a child in a healthy environment (expendable income of the parents, mental health of the parents, sanitation of the home, etc).

[@RobertTLongway]

James Miller So I just did a quick check and Wikipedia has a whole section of the "Slippery Slope" entitled Non-fallacious usage. I know Wikipedia isn't an awesome source 100% of the time, but it will have to do until I can read the book The Mechanisms of the Slippery Slope by Eugene Volokh - so it appears The Slippery Slope can be used in a non-fallacious manner

[@fleurmeijer5969]

6:33 wine drinking couple..... we meet again.

[@skyzu9558]

I’LL HAVE YOU KNOW MY PARENTS REALLY DID ENJOY MY MACARONI ART!!!

[@klassicneo]

Now would be a good time to show this video to my parents. Then again maybe I don't have to.

[@waywardwillard]

As an adopted child, I am all for parental licenses. My parents went through a very long process to adopt me, and I think it would benefit all children if their parents went through the same process.

[@Alitari]

Yes I think one should require a license before becoming a parent. But there's another argument as to why you should maintain family obligations, and it's a selfish one. I believe I heard this example given in Richard Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" There are three types of people in the world, Grandmothers, Mothers, and Daughters. Everyone consumes 1 unit of food but only Mothers are able to get food (they're able to get 3 units of food). A seemingly optimal setting would be for Mothers to only give food to themselves and their daughters (1.5 food each) so as to give them their best chance of survival ... but you're modelling behaviour that Grandmothers should be neglected. When the Mothers become Grandmothers and their Daughters become Mothers, the previous Mother wouldn't want to be neglected as a Grandmother, so to avoid this, they model the 'everyone gets a share' behaviour, so they can live out life as a Grandmother (and aren't just discarded once they become Grandmothers).

[@Waltham1892]

"You have no obligation to your parents..." My daughter's first words in the morning and last words at night.

[@ImperialGoldfish]

Oh God, I feel so guilty that I haven't called my mum in weeks. Stop philosophising me, Hank

[@joshwi4193]

If you can't incur an obligation simply by being born, why are we expected to abide by the laws of a society we didn't choose to be born into?

[@LoveSasukeKai]

Josh Wi I think it's related to how a baby's brain is much less developed than an adult's. In fact, the brain is only fully developed at 25! So a kid plain lacks the ability to make legal and moral choices on the same level as an adult, who can, if their economy/health allows it, move to another country to avoid laws.

[@joshwi4193]

Exactly, if a person can't be a moral agent because their brain is undeveloped, why do we expect them to uphold any contract they can neither comprehend nor legally and morally be contracted to (the laws of society for example)? I fully understand that it would be useless to have laws which a person under the age of 25 doesn't need to abide by - I just think it's weird to incur some obligations at birth and not others.

[@LoveSasukeKai]

Josh Wi Well, in my country children bellow the age of 15 can't be punished by the law, it's their parents who pay for their crimes. Meaning they aren't forced to adhere to laws they can't understand. So I can't really relate to your view there.

[@romrom920]

Maja N Technically speaking, while you're a member of a country from birth, you aren't expected to fully abide by the laws of their government until you are of an age to begin making decisions. In most countries, minors are prosecuted in a different way and it really only applies to the major laws: those required to keep basic civility. Given that, you technically only have to abide by laws once you are old enough to have the option to leave the country. This is akin to the college student living at home for free; it's a separate contract made with full consent.

[@offmetagamer5887]

This is, generally speaking, why societies attempt to reflect the desires of their populace. Children cannot be expected to buy in to the social contract and instead have to be enticed into playing along or, in the case of society failing to do so, they become deviants. (people who do not follow the principles of their governing body) Because of this a society slowly changes over time (sometimes maddeningly slowly) to account for changes in the desires of its people. A society that does not change fast enough or that refuses to change (usually dictatorships) will almost inevitably fall apart.

[@deeb3272]

Well well well .. self-proclaimed Filipino conservatives would be offended

[@julianw7097]

What "obligations"? I will be nice and help when I can. Same as with everyone else.

[@aperson22222]

There's something alluring about the idea of making people prove their worthiness to reproduce, but just imagine the draconian measures that would be needed to stop the rejects. I do believe that's a cure worse than the disease.

[@sageseraphim6720]

Hank, are you my father?

[@erikziak1249]

Search your inner feelings.

[@quantumperception]

This being the internet, be prepared for "I'll be your daddy" jokes. You really queued up the trolls on that one.

[@sageseraphim6720]

quantumperception Thank you for warning me.

[@jimmygravitt1048]

That friendship model fits my mom and I perfectly. This was a brilliant episode. Jesus, the philosophy one is POWERFUL. Sad I'm coming to the end.

[@antoniolewis1016]

A license to have kids? You mean marriage, back when people counted it as such?

[@antoniolewis1016]

What do you all think?

[@princeinfidel]

That has never been the case.

[@emmaruzicka9993]

I'm a couple of months late, but I don't think that marriage plays a vital role in a couple's ability to have children. (Not to mention, a whole other argument on same-sex relationships and their rights in regards to marriage and children). Marriages are not permanent and don't add to the overall health of a relationship. They most certainly do not give one couple more right to have children than one that isn't married, because they chose not to get married or worse, couldn't get married. I am, however, intrigued by the idea of a license to have kids (hence looking in the comments to see other opinions and arguments), because it seems pretty justifiable to me. That being said, it would be a long process to begin, which I'm sure would go wrong a lot of times before it would go right. Nevertheless, if successful, it would result in happier and healthier families, and thus, happier and healthier new generations of individuals.

[@aoeu256]

there are no qualifications for marriage ...

[@Sophistry0001]

How do you enforce the parenting reproduction license? People who don't pass get fixed? What's to stop unlicensed people from making babies anyway?

[@aliceb2849]

I would assume an unregistered child would not have a SS#, would not be able to attend school, get health care or do anything without being exposed- If they were to be exposed, I would assume they would be taken to a bording school or foster care until the parent passed the test. If the tests are free, a good parent has no need to avoid them.

[@Doomroar]

We take the kids from them, and we could snipe snap their genitals.

[@SangoProductions213]

From my comment: You run in to the problem of "how do you enforce the rule?" Where...like...OK, do you force them to have an abortion? That sounds wrong. Do you take the child away if they don't pass the test before the baby leaves the hospital? A bit more reasonable. I mean, if they can't pass the test after 9+ months of classes and testing...I wouldn't want anyone raised by them then. (Assuming the test was fair and actually about welfare of the child, and not some sort of political...wait...a law that isn't political. Nvm.)

[@XiggyJ]

Matt T I think taking away government help from those who don't have a license would work better. Let them have kids, but don't expect society to take care of them if you aren't qualified to. It would make people think twice before having children when they aren't ready.

[@Doomroar]

XiggyJ here's the problem we already concluded that they are bad parents, and now society is not going to take care of them, yet we are allowing them to continue the process, they will grow up, and then we have to deal with the aberration that came from that, that's a horrible idea, if they are bad parents they shouldn't have the kids as simple as that.