Non-Human Animals: Crash Course Philosophy #42

[@anantdixit3831]

This reminds me of a quote about a sentient horse having an opinion about its rider: (Source: Dirk Gently by Douglas Adams) It is difficult to be sat on all day, every day, by some other creature, without forming an opinion on them. On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to sit all day, every day, on top of another creature and not have the slightest thought about them whatsoever.

[@TheSICKandTheCRAZY]

great quote! never read the book but the netflix show was good.

[@ShirinRose]

I just read that book two weeks ago after watching the netflix show. The show and book are quite different, but I loved both ^_^ Very appropriate quote there, too.

[@someguy2135]

Douglas Adams wrote the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy series. Great author and spokesman for atheism.

[@Kamila_Koziol]

It always fascinated me how people (mainly of Western culture, which I'm a part of) lament eating dog meat in some Asian countries while discussing it over a burger. The thing that fascinates me it that most of them are so convinced and comfortable in claiming that it's something totally different, because cows are cattle and dogs are pets, and not even realizing that it's a human construct.

[@someguy2135]

I wonder how many in the West would agree to go vegan if the Chinese would agree to also go vegan. It would mean that they would no longer eat doga.

[@robloxgod4209]

Yeah why don't they leave them alone.

[@sweetwins5054]

people actually believe that alll Chinese eat dog... the power of media. You can only see what they want you to see.

[@someguy2135]

@@sweetwins5054 I could have worded my comment better. I know that most Chinese people do not eat dogs.

[@chickpeapeace]

"opting out of rational discourse altogether" is such a great line

[@saram9753]

I love that he didn't need to mention the word "vegan" at all and the message went through so smoothly. This was perfect.

[@kradangna]

"If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals." - Sirius Black

[@johnsnyder3443]

Sirius Black? So clever. So so clever.

[@TheMarshmelloKing]

People feel less shame in abusing the powerless because there often aren’t consequences for it

[@Scorch428]

"You can judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

[@wesleysmith2700]

@@Scorch428 yes, but it can be connected to this philosophy.

[@johnagnel5986]

If a man considers someone else as inferior, then why should i take a look at him at all????

[@Littlestpetshop011]

I like the fact he said non-human animals instead of just animals

[@abreeshock6695]

Well humans are animals so there is that

[@nickick8498]

Yeah, kind of dumb

[@smurfmemez4112]

Why do you like that?

[@LydiaCross]

@@smurfmemez4112 i think it reconnects us to the animal kingdom.. sometimes humans are so disconnected from the fact that we too are animals, and it gives us a sense of power over other animals, and reinforces this whole concept of speciesism.

[@smurfmemez4112]

@@LydiaCross good reply

[@maybepriyansh9193]

Im seriously considering some of my lifestyle choices now. Philosphy makes u scrutinize yourself and feel good about that even if u come out on the wrong side as it appeals to your reason instead of "pointless taking sides compatmentalism" that prevails everywhere among ppl nowadays.

[@HappiestVeganonEarth]

Being vegan is so much easier than I thought it would be. I really thought it was this scary impossible thing before I went vegan, but it turned out to be really pretty easy. I feel such a relief -- I was carrying around so much cognitive dissonance before, thinking that I was a compassionate animal lover, but still using animals as a mere means to my own ends. My only regret is that I didn't go vegan sooner!

[@davidfortier6976]

Piss off.

[@albert6157]

@@davidfortier6976 Chill man

[@ruscoedaveaban5104]

But plants feel pain too

[@user-kj2fj8qr9l]

@@davidfortier6976 People keep saying they get mad at vegans for their toxic personality, but I have been noticing a recent rise in toxicity from meat eaters against vegans(honestly more so). I'm not a vegan myself, but this is some BS. If its about choice, then live and let live. If its about morality, I can't see how veganism is morally bad in any way. If its about other vegans being annoying, then you are partaking in generalization(which most would consider to be a bad thing). This person is just telling their own story, if you don't care, don't comment.

[@musikmaximizer]

He presented the most common pro-meat-eating arguments and countered them with reason. But it seems like a lot of people in this comment section are not satisfied because it's "pro-vegan". I want to hear some solid arguments from the pro-meat-eating side that he didn't tackle because it seems to me that this video is more about being pro-reason and logic than pro-veganism

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Arnaldur Ingi Jónsson Agreed. I'm an omnivore and I liked this video very much.

[@plantspirit9289]

This is a link to a great website that is a very good source to answer many health questions pertaining to a plant based diet.. nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=omega+3&fwp_content_type=video

[@King_Kenlee]

koseq7 hemp is dirt cheap. And complete bs about no plants are complete protein sources. Soy, mycoprotein, quinoa and many seeds are complete proteins and there's no reason why you can't combine plant sources

[@Not.a.bird.Person]

I'd like to point out first, that: ''Omega-3 fatty acids are formed in the chloroplasts of green leaves and algae. While seaweeds and algae are the source of omega-3 fatty acids present in fish, grass is the source of omega-3 fatty acids present in grass fed animals.'' In other words, those are basically formed in plants. Secondly, to lack proteins in a diet one must either not eat anything that contains DNA or starve to death... both are pretty similar in fact. Any plant contains proteins, it is simply a false dichotomy to assume one must eat meat to get sufficient amount of proteins or lack in them by not eating meat. Garton, G. A. (1960). "Fatty Acid Composition of the Lipids of Pasture Grasses". Nature. 187 (4736): 511-12. doi:10.1038/187511b0.

[@lifefindsaway7875]

I feel like this video jumped straight from "Animals are not simply at our disposal, their suffering matters" to "Go 100% vegan" If I'm raising livestock via traditional methods (lots of space, natural diet, etc, none of that cruel industrialized farming stuff) Then am I not entitled to eat that animal, just as I'm entitled to eat any crops that I grow? If I did not raise livestock, the animals would lead a (probably short) life of hunger and fear, constantly scrounging for food and being chased by predators. Is it not more humane to give the animal a safe, comfortable life, and a quick, (nearly) painless death?

[@badasunicorn6870]

I have been having problems with deciding if I should be a vegeterian/vegan for months tipping from view to view, messig with my own morals, ethics and definitions. Then this video came along and presented every part of my mental process as well as the arguments of my friend and family. It's like this entire course is the collectionof all my countless existential crisises listed, with words for everything, and all the details I was looking for. The feeling of having your thoughts confirmed, and explained throughout history. CrashCourse is awsome!

[@departmentofanalytics1116]

Bruh... animals give you existential crises? Seriously? Impossible!

[@sanne4419]

but animals want to live and meat production is polluting the planet

[@Peter111ization]

What have you decided?

[@abracadabra2395]

Yes! So many of these videos were like reframing stuff that bugs me all the time!

[@Jahnos]

Sanne yea but meat tastes nice

[@DrFarazHarsini]

It's very difficult to talk about these without making people emotional and sort of mad. You did an amazing job in bringing up these arguments in a way that I think if I wasn't vegan already I would have started considering it right after this video! Thank you!

[@احمدمؤيد-ض3ث]

After watching this I understand why someone would become vegan

[@totalwreck7435]

Try it! Start with vegetarianism it's easier and a good start.

[@Jahnos]

Tehila Tulkoff I cant go vegan or vegetarian because protien

[@celestialpainter1356]

VeoSkrill there are plenty of plant based protein sources. Edamame, tofu, tvp, tempeh, quorn etc

[@Jahnos]

obesity whale 100g of tuna is 114cal and has 25g of protein and it’s easy and less time consuming to eat

[@zachyboi7293]

@@Jahnos tuna probably isn't the best thing for your body

[@gangllery1596]

Thank you so much for making me and so many others to think about animals. Since animals cannot speak for themselves, people should speak up for animals exploited in human society.

[@pete2389]

Damn, I'm actually thinking about being a vegetarian after watching this. I always figured it's the way of the world to eat meat. How am I different from any other carnivore? And plants are living creatures too afterall. But dismissing this conversation doesn't say much for my ability to be a deep thinker. Alot to consider here, thanks crash course

[@sajfen]

You seem to be able to grasp deeper subjects and distance your initial instincts from your actual interest in finding out what's true or not, what's moral or not, what we ought to do and what we should stay away from. That's the difference.

[@EbyKat]

Pete in general people would probably be better off pulling back in the sheer amount of meat products they eat. I am not vegetarian or vegan by any stretch of the imagination but I enjoy many meatless meals without having to try hard at all.

[@xy22]

Look up the anatomy of carnivores and herbivores and omnivores and you'll have it figured out. For one thing, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to catch another animal that you normally eat and eat it only using your teeth and nails (and stomach) xD That's exactly how I made my mind. I was constantly trying to give myself different reasons not to go vegetarian, because I so much enjoyed bacon and thought that it would be worse giving up on it, than on water xD But, after some time, you realize that it's just you trying to hide from facing your own guilty reflection. I'm still not quite there yet -- I eat some types of seafood, but I will be soon enough:)

[@musardus]

I am thinking about being a vegetation rather than a vegetarian

[@BeastOrGod]

Plants are living creatures too, but just because they don't feel pain, can we treat like rocks and dirt? Can we kill a living creature, just because it doesn't feel pain? Are plants lesser creatures than us and animals? What about insects that doesn't feel pain? Can we eat them?

[@maevemylene4910]

Also, the commends make me very happy! I am really proud of all of you guys going vegan, even if we live in a society that mostly looks down on veganism, ridicules it and tells you to continue eating meat (at least, this is what I experience in the Netherlands)

[@ashkanghanbarzade3935]

I cried...seeing for the first time a non-vegan, unbiased channel discussing this issue with amazing clarity and objectivity.

[@bibifolchi36]

I love how educational channels are actually starting to talk about this! People need to hear this and stop being so hypocritical

[@bibifolchi36]

Peter Rabitt that's why more people have to learn how to adopt a vegan lifestyle

[@bibifolchi36]

godjamGODJAM I know where you're coming from, because a lot of people are against the vegan diet before doing some research. But trust me when I say that little kids can be vegan just like any other human being. I know of some people who were vegan since birth and have a perfect health. Before, when we actually needed to eat animals, because it was a question of survival, I could have understood people, but now, we could live perfectly well without eating them. The conditions in which they are kept are monstrous and I don't believe in "humanely" slaughtered because there is no way that killing a living and sentient being is humane. And by the way, you say you hunt your prey and eat them, but you mean that other people farm your prey, and then kill them for you. Half of the world would at least go vegetarian if they had to kill their own meal; and even if you do hunt your pray, don't you feel any remorse? The only thing that animal has was its life, and you took it away from them. Oh, and before I said SENTIENT beings, because plants are not. They can't understand pain, and surely they can't even feel it. They don't have a nervous system, therefore it's highly impossible that they can actually understand (also because they don't have brains), what that feeling is.

[@kevinsaarela3779]

If we hold the life of every living thing as equal we are presented with some very large problems.something that is never brought up in these conversations if that plants are by definition living thus if all life is equal why do animals get better treatment than plants which are certainly living.I mean if we are not allowed to be specious why are we allowed to be kingdomist(not giving creatures from all parts of the kingdoms equal treatment).At the end of the day it comes down to this,should someone who forgot to feed their cat be given years in prison because that is what someone who forgot to feed their child got.(also note that humanity would not have been able to produce the device you typed this comment on if they were not specious.)

[@HB-ps6rn]

+Bibi I don't know what type of farms or ranches you have been to but its clear you have only the idea of feed lots, and not open-pasture grazing with people working hard to give them as much alfalfa as they will come to get when they aren't feeling lazy. And as for the slaughtering process, it is the most humane way that can be done while still keeping up with demand. And I don't know if you have though about how we would grow enough fruit and vegetables to supply 50% of the nation. There is already a massive strain on arable land and fresh water resources which wont be getting better any time soon.

[@AV57]

Hayes Bartlett, you do realize that feeding animals is a massive waste of land, don't you? You're worried about growing plants for about 8 billion humans, but not perplexed as to how we're currently feeding hundreds of billions of animals that will be slaughtered each year for human consumption. Odd.

[@yellinghayfire4935]

Pigs are actually more intelligent than dogs

[@oswegoicebox3064]

Yelling Hayfire That may be true (I can't say since I have very little dog experience), but let the record say that the majority of pigs I've ever encountered are catastrophic morons.

[@bellahu5330]

Intelligence shouldn't be a factor - would you eat someone who's mentally disabled?

[@oswegoicebox3064]

I'll eat you if you can't defeat me in mortal physical combat

[@maya-cc2sx]

AbsoluteGuppy WHat

[@oswegoicebox3064]

Manaphy Colours What?

[@cartime7408]

Thought about going vegan for a while now, this might settle it.

[@sajfen]

Do it! Be awesome!

[@szilveszterforgo8776]

Ok. We will have even more meat then

[@david522]

@@szilveszterforgo8776 wtf?

[@Unknown-eg5xz]

Szilveszter Forgo Heard about capitalism? Supply and demand?

[@totalwreck7435]

Nice! If it's too hard they being vegetarian

[@abhisheksoni2980]

Omg! In India, we have all sorts of Godmen, holy men, monks and missionaries who appeal people to become vegetarian but none of them has affected me nearly as profoundly as this video!

[@sarakamnani6328]

hmm. really? what part are u from?

[@aviralbardar149]

This shows how your brain is limited by the shackles of science , my fren

[@stephensmith3675]

I loved it. You made the point that we (including me) meat eaters are devoid or moral justification, but you did it softly. Well done. I have thought about this to death. Even though I continue to eat meat, i have concluded that it is terribly wrong of me to do so. I need to stop.

[@plantspirit9289]

Stephen Smith, making that ethical connection between animal cruelty and food is the most important part.. Here is a link to a great website that has sound nutritional information given by a Vegan Dr it is a good place to start....Again I would like to congratulate you for making the ethical connection between animals and food. Here's that link :) nutritionfacts.org/videos/

[@EbyKat]

Stephen Smith TBF there really are plenty of people who cannot live on a plant based diet only. I think American culture is pro meat to a degree that is a little crazy and we would benefit from pulling away from that but I also don't thing a vegan diet is realistic for everyone. Even plants have their cost. Namely the underpaid labor that goes into getting them to your plate.

[@nomanalirajput]

he assumed that plants are just non sensory beings and it is ok to eat them.... today due to modern science we know plants can see through photo receptor... all plants can smell as studies show they ripen due to whiff of certain chemicals... they have sense of touch .many studies say plants respond to sounds.. and they feel happy and cry.so they have less senses than humans and animals.. does this means it is ok for you to eat beings who have less senses then animals? if yes then ... would it be ok for you to eat your brother who is dumb blind and deaf.....so i eat animals to survive same like if i would eat less sensory species of plants.

[@aguiladplata]

Stephen Smith I'm sorry, but as an omnivore, which us humans totally are by nature. So, it's not "tradition" why we do eat meat, that is a completley biassed idea. Also, must species we eat, like cows and pigs, are animals that we DESIGNED through centuries precisely to fullfil our eating needs, they woudnt even exist if we didnt need them for that. So, I found this episode quite biased and acually outside it's own recomendation of having to think about things rationally to do philosophpy. I think the must rational approach to meat eating would be that we are absolutley designed to do so, we have done it as a species BEFORE we were even human, and althought things have sadly gone out of hand and we should be the must humane possible in using animals for food (and clothing, and a good deal of industrial uses, and beeing killing them by thousands to have almost any commodity we have in this industral age ;-) ) The fact stays that we need them to stay alive and eating meat is not just something about "taste" in principle, although it can be at another level.

[@sajfen]

All these plant rights activists! (should we tell them that the cows they consume eat A SHITLOAD more plants than vegans do?)

[@pogonoah99]

I'm probably going to become a vegan or a vegetarian when I go to college, or start living on my own. The arguments against meat eating are pretty solid but I don't want to be a burden to my parents by denying meat.

[@pogonoah99]

nahuel mendez If stopping capitalism would hurt us significantly more than if we kept doing it, by definition the arguments against stopping capitalism are stronger than the arguments for stopping capitalism.

[@nehuen9333]

Noah Fence well if you believe in scientific studies...uncontrolled industrialization will harm us more than stoping the industry. so there's no harm in stoping the animal farming industry....and there's more harm in stopping the modern farming industry is that what you're saying?

[@pogonoah99]

"well if you believe in scientific studies...uncontrolled industrialization will harm us more than stoping the industry." One: False dichotomy. You can regulate the industry without stopping it. Two: I don't know what you're trying to argue here. You are literally saying that uncontrolled industrialization will hurt us more than another alternative while simultaneously saying that we shouldn't stop it. What is your point here? "so there's no harm in stoping the animal farming industry" There will be difficulties, but my position is that the benefits outweigh the costs. "and there's more harm in stopping the modern farming industry is that what you're saying?" I never contradicted myself. I was using your premise and challenging it with your logic. I never said whether or not capitalism is a good thing.

[@nehuen9333]

1st of all: you dont speak spanish right?...just to know, it would be awesome, but its not that necessary if it isn't your 1st language or you don't speak it fluently "One: False dichotomy. You can regulate the industry without stopping it" in theory its true, in practice the power of wealth crushes the sense of responsibility. "we shouldn't stop it." actually i think we cant "There will be difficulties, but my position is that the benefits outweigh the costs" to me it dosent seem like that ["and there's more harm in stopping the modern farming industry is that what you're saying?" ----------- "I never contradicted myself. I was using your premise and challenging it with your logic. I never said whether or not capitalism is a good thing."] i wanted to know if you think that and try to convince you why that ...considering uncontrolled industry,could not be truth

[@yomomasboss]

You can always dabble before going all-in, eat what your parents give you and experiment with dishes for yourself without having to finance it on a college-kid's grocery money. It would give you a better feel for what works for you and what (if anything) you'd want to cut.

[@hko2006]

Eating less meat reduces carbon footprint too!

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

HKO2006 Nightcore&Trance I always respected the environmental argument more than the animal welfare one.

[@garlicbread3000]

eating no meat meat does that too

[@aussietom85]

This isnt necessarily true, if we ate mostly chicken and pork it would be better then all the land clearing that would be required to eat an entirely plant based diet.

[@mastakur]

But our carbon foot print actually saved million of plants and animals. If you think that CO2 is a pollutant you are miss informed. Don't believe the TV and main stream science, learn to think for yourself... I mean it has been proven long time ago... anthropogenic global warming is a TAX scam and pseudo science. 1. We have increased the levels of CO2 in favor of the planted. They are now close to optimal for plant growth. 2. Warm is better then cold. But the global temperatures have no significant change for the past 20 years contradicting and destroying the climate change computer models. 3. Human global warming thesis claims that our foot print is going to rise the ocean levels and endanger the collar reefs. Every single marine biologist will tell that the rise of ocean levels is extremely good for the collar reefs. I think that Atheists who believe in the anthropogenic climate change thesis are a sign of a something terrible. If a pseudo science thesis like human made climate change can get so popular and accepted, by the people who claim that logic and the scientific method, nullifies the need of religion because of lack of empirical evidence... The we are fucked big time I say. You are idiots and this is really SAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[@hombreg1]

Mastakur ummmmm as someone who has been studying biology and climate sciences for 5 years now, I can say your argument is a load of bologna. Warmth can kill creatures to, several plants prefer colder weathers, more violent tropical storms are created with warmer temperatures. The sea acidifies, coral bleaches and dies, the poles melt and the cold water seeps into warm currents, disrupting them and destroying whole populations of tropical wildlife. Please, leave this whole "thinking" department for those more apt for cognitive functioning....

[@kade9599]

(ive never been the kinda guy to care about other peoples diets or lifestyles for the record, theres nothing wrong inherently for eating meat lol) that said this video helped me make a rational decision to stop eating meat as soon as i can, which id considered for *years* but never got to because of my familys lifestyle and my own hesitation. ive always loved crash course philosophy but this was the first video to make such an immediate change in my actions and not just my beliefs. ty!!

[@irrelevantFJS]

I... almost want to cry. To see such a big youtube empire say these things. It means so much to me. Although to be fair, I don't think it will change much. On this issue in particular, people seem to shut down and refuse to think about it or possibly consider changing their mind. P.S. Non-vegan comments: "Vegans are going to have a field day with this one." "Watching this while eating a delicious roast beef sandwich. The cows death was totally worth it." "If non-human animals weren't meant to be eaten, then why are they so delicious?" "ANIMALS AREN'T CONSCIOUS. furious vegan fanatics and animal supremacists in 3..2.." "I WOULD go vegan but meat just tastes SOOOO good XD my pleasure and convenience is more important than the pain and death of another organism" Still looking for those furious vegans, by the way. :P

[@irrelevantFJS]

I'm not an absolutist, nor would I kill myself to save another human, let alone another animal. I'm not crazy, I don't believe in doing 0 harm to animals. That's impossible, just by existing as humans we harm the environment with every step we take. I'm not arguing for 0 harm to animals at all! You're completely right, the only way to completely reduce our harm would be to kill ourselves. Why would I worry about the impossible? I'm really unsure where you even got this idea from. I never said what my own beliefs are. So.... who are you really arguing with? lol Certainly not me!

[@OzixiThrill]

***** "I... almost want to cry. To see such a big youtube empire say these things. It means so much to me." Strongly suggests that you are pro-vegan.

[@OzixiThrill]

***** He asked me where I got the idea from that he's a vegan; I gave him the bit that I found strongly hinting at it. Or is there something else you're not seeing the point of? Or did you not even bother readin a 3 comments long discussion before opening your mouth?

[@OzixiThrill]

***** _I never said what my own beliefs are._ Suggesting that my conclusions about his standing were wrong.

[@OzixiThrill]

***** That was a general statement aiming at the videos original message of staying consistent, and not explicitly aimed at you.

[@alexisbader5189]

I wish I could love this video instead of just liking it

[@euclideanplane]

same, feed me to my cats when I die. lmao.

[@ira__s]

And that's why I am going vegan.

[@Unknown-eg5xz]

first last Im eating vegan taco. Check mate

[@RashidMBey]

I've been vegetarian/vegan for eleven years, and it's a fantastic change. I'm glad for the step forward, Ira!

[@timileyin9383]

Liar just saying that for more likes

[@smurfmemez4112]

Plants feel pain

[@michaelmagdy6647]

@@smurfmemez4112 Nope, they just respond without having any mental capabilities. Just like you did (sorry couldn't resist)

[@user-rm2qj2jh4l]

This is so important!! Most people just ignore this, but it matters so much. I am very much on the Peter Singer side of the debate, human mistreatment of other sentient is such a huge problem. Intelligence should not matter because you don't need to be smart to feel pain or happiness. Another often overlooked topic I'd love to see covered in a Crash Course Philosophy video is the treatment of young people by adults, and the philosophical foundations, or lack thereof, around them. Young people are often discredited and discriminated against for completely irrelevant reasons. Thanks, Crash Course Philosophy! :)

[@HollyFallout]

Thank you for talking about this subject! Non-human animals are commonly ignored in this discussion. We are just one species among billions of others. Sure we're smarter but that doesn't make it ok to harm others.

[@richardtrujillo4082]

What a great video, simple to understand, it shows how veganism is very rational.

[@ahorrell]

Hey Hank, Have you quit meat yet? I know this has been on your mind for a while now. I remember when you put out a vlogbrothers clip on this a couple of years back. As a non-animal eater, I really appreciated the way you didn't deny the reality of meat, even though you still ate it. Knowledge is power and with power comes responsibility, soooo... you can do it!

[@Pattyobrien3]

Question: Is it morally justifiable to kill animals to feed to other animals, especially when the animals we are feeding require meat to survive?

[@sajfen]

You can do that in a number of different ways. If you kill a calf and feed a tiny piece of it to your cat and throw the rest away I'd say it's not OK. If you feed it road kill or hunted invasive species I'd have less of a problem with it. So there's no black/white answer here.

[@minarenoir6342]

I often struggle with that. I have to feed my rescued and neutered cats a bit of meat in their diet. I think the moral imperative here is to prevent species depending on meat from multiplying due to our own impact - like street animals, who tend to multiply very quickly in man-made environment, often because previous generations had been looked after, fed etc. by humans. In fact that's even true for cats, but not dogs, who can thrive on a meat-free diet. In that case I think all you can do is neuter the population, feed them as little meat as possible to allow them to live healthy lives if you look after them, and lobby for the quicker development of affordable lab-grown meat for pet food... but I'm not convinced that there is a good answer. I think the less we interfere with nature, the better, but when we have already done so, we have to try and minimise suffering in the most effective ways possible.

[@minarenoir6342]

@Spongebob Squarepants You have my sympathy and I too can't wait for lab-grown meat to be available for cat and dog food! It'll save so many lives. I feed my kitties as little meat as I need to, they have a healthy diet altogether but it wouldn't be healthy without a bit of meat (mostly it wouldn't be very palatable to them - most of the taurine etc in meat is added as supplements rather than actually being part of the nutritional content of the meat itself, which really makes you think! I think for dogs you have a bit more leeway though, they can synthesize what they need from a broader diet, can't they, especially with well-designed veggie pet food that's available nowadays....? I'm not saying I know about that as an expert, you should definitely research it, but I have friends who've had very healthy dogs for years on a mostly vegetarian/vegan diet - but those people did really do their research to make sure their dogs were getting everything they needed, and give them a bit of high quality meat). I'm not advocating taking meat out of cats' or dogs' diets altogether - but it doesn't need to be the bulk of what they eat, by all accounts, which at least reduces demand somewhat...

[@thevisi0naryy]

Absolutely. If you are the animals keeper it is under your control, and it would be unethical to force your lifestyle upon it.

[@sachinraghavan4556]

No, because they rely on meat to survive, and we don't and we also torture them, they don't.

[@loveisall5520]

This is precisely why I went vegan in 1973 and have never regretted it.

[@brandonhall6084]

So if I understand the position correctly: It is immoral to eat anything that can feel pain. Does this mean that eating animals without a brain or developed central nervous system (jellyfish, clams, oysters, sea cucumbers etc.) would be acceptable?

[@FPOAK]

Quite a few utilitarian vegans are ok with eating bivalves. From what I understand, Peter Singer doesn't have a problem with eating oysters. Usually their reasoning is that there's a gradient involved according to the probability that an animal can feel pain. In this sense, the utilitarian position is more nuanced than that of the deontological vegans who would argue that the taking of animal life is immoral regardless.

[@dc.181]

interesting

[@JillianBohrer]

Brandon Hall some vegans would say so, but strictly from an ethical standpoint. A reason not to eat them is the environmental impact of the fishing industry on the health of the oceans and planet.

[@Zineeta]

Brandon Hall yet I've seen some reports along the lines that some plants have signs of feeling pain.

[@davidtay9234]

They dont have brains so they can't feel pain, they can however react to things like being cut and grow in different patterns or release chemical reactions as a result. Besides, what do you think animals eat? Plants. By going on a plant based diet, there would be lower consumption of plants.

[@potatopeeler9728]

Reading the comments under this video make me so happy to see the advancement of Veganism. Keep it up y'all! :D

[@p.ananditaosmec-0673]

Ikr sameee

[@cloudgalaxy9231]

High quality. I remember what you said though, Hank. It went something along the lines of "Some times it causes more suffering in our own life to fight against the grain, and though it's self-interested, It's the best I can do."

[@mrs.benbarns1883]

Why is everyone down here comparing living breathing animals to vegetables?

[@TheJupiteL]

Because vegetables are also living and breathing?

[@mrs.benbarns1883]

Strygger all of you carnist are being so literal to deflect from the fact that you pay for murder. None of you actually think plants can feel pain like the innocent animals enslaved by the meat, fish, dairy and egg industries. No one on this earth actually thinks that way, its just a last ditch effort to stay in denial about your destructive lifestyles.

[@hombreg1]

types10000 but then beef is responsible for one third of the green house gases in the atmosphere >.>

[@greenredblue]

Kiwi Um. That's very closed-minded... Why should I care about animals at all? The video itself said why: beliefs and positions need to be philosophically justified and consistent or there's literally no conversation to be had. So why bother talking about plants? Because of the *exact same reason*. Many of the claims made in the video apply not only to animals, but also to plants or even more primitive forms of life. Clearly you think there's a *morally relevant difference* between plants and animals. Ok, what is it? Here's an example: maybe you think the *MRD* is that plants have no developed nervous system and therefore can't feel pain. That would be a good argument, but it has implications, because the same argument applies to pretty much all non-vertebrates. Do you think it's ok to farm jellyfish and bugs? Because if you still say no, then you're going to have to come up with a different MRD.

[@greenredblue]

Kiwi Um. That's very closed-minded... Why should I care about animals at all? The video itself said why: beliefs and positions need to be philosophically justified and consistent or there's literally no conversation to be had. So why bother talking about plants? Because of the *exact same reason*. Many of the claims made in the video apply not only to animals, but also to plants or even more primitive forms of life. Clearly you think there's a *morally relevant difference* between plants and animals. Ok, what is it? Here's an example: maybe you think the *MRD* is that plants have no developed nervous system and therefore can't feel pain. That would be a good argument, but it has implications, because the same argument applies to pretty much all non-vertebrates. Do you think it's ok to farm jellyfish and bugs? Because if you still say no, then you're going to have to come up with a different MRD.

[@p.ananditaosmec-0673]

FINALLY someone talking about the truth. Vegan for the animals, before anything else!

[@boysteacher3818]

And then become an efilist

[@p.ananditaosmec-0673]

@@boysteacher3818 there so relation between efilism and veganism.

[@TheLaly37]

This is the third time I am watching this video. Every word resonates with me. Thanks for making it . Wish I could like it more than one

[@Creepzza]

I like that you bring up important/hard topics. Best channel on KZbin probably

[@Lapusso650]

Wtf? How are the people who do this to the rabits not being arrested??

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Ritalin Popper Well, rabbits aren't people and I don't see what makes using them so terribly different from the mice and rats used in medical experiments. Is it just because rabbits are bigger and cuter?

[@oleksiy4618]

Just because "rabbits aren't people", doesn't mean we can torture them by hurting their eyes and blinding them. The same applies to mice and rats.

[@marlonmoncrieffe0728]

Oleksiy So you're against using rodents for medical research experiments?

[@oleksiy4618]

Marlon Moncrieffe I'm against unnecessary animal testing, for things like cosmetics, which was what Hank talked about in the video. Medical research is more nuanced. As a consequentialist, I'm not categorically opposed to it (or anything really), just so long as the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Most people agree on that point, except they don't take drawbacks (animal suffering) seriously and only focus on the benefit for humanity. At this point, I'm somewhat reluctant to believe that it's worth it, especially given the difficulty in extrapolating research data between different species. But yeah, if we're actually reducing a greater harm, by causing a lesser harm, then I'm in favor of that, whatever it is. Those are my values, but I'm ignorant on where the cost-benefit analysis would actually lead me.

[@Lapusso650]

Oleksiy so how about we make YOU suffer instead of the poor rabbit? To prove how righteous you really are

[@eeveeleen]

Wow, this must be the best video recently! Thank you so much for your work.

[@Erine120]

I double take’d so fast when he asked “why not eat her” lmao

[@joselupechavez9203]

Best episode thus far I’ve seen on this channel.

[@harrypotter5460]

I love watching all the meat eaters in the comments regurgitate the exact arguments Hank dismissed in this video. The fact of the matter is that eating meat and animal products which require suffering is morally inconsistent. Philosophically, eating meat makes no sense for a human.

[@harrypotter5460]

***** I did not mean "meat eater" as a derogatory term. Forgive me if it was interpreted that way.

[@MichealGoode]

A vegan society kills more animals than a carnivorous society. Plainly, by the numbers, we kill far more animals and insects just through growing crops than we do by slaughtering cattle and other animals for meat, leather, and other products. Poison, Irrigation, harvesting with heavy machines, all these things kill animals and insects, and on a far greater scale than any slaughter houses. If we are looking at this from a Utilitarian Perspective, then we have a moral obligation to choose ranching over farming. This is simply because the suffering of a few animals to provide food, in the form of meat, for us is less than the suffering of a great many animals to provide food, in the form of plants, for us. Going beyond that; without a need to maintain many of the animals we now use for food, we would stop taking care of them, and in many cases their entire species would be wiped out. This comes about as a result of the selective breeding that leaves many unable to even procreate without human intervention.

[@harrypotter5460]

Micheal Goode That's a good point and I'm glad you brought it up. What you seem to be forgetting is that a large majority of all crops are used as food for livestock. Because fewer crops would be grown, fewer insects and other animals would be killed. Cutting down on animal agriculture would result in fewer animals dying in slaughter houses and fewer animals dying because of poison, irrigation, etc.

[@MichealGoode]

We'd still have to add to the farmed vegetables as much protein and such as we would lose from not having meat. That would still leave us killing en masse more small animals like mice, voles, snakes, and insects than ranching.

[@harrypotter5460]

Micheal Goode I don't think you understand just quite how much of our farmland is used to feed live stock. For every pound of meat someone eats, that animal had to eat 16 pounds of farmed crops (it's somewhere between 13 and 16, you can verify yourself). If everyone stopped eating meat. There would be enough farmed crops to end world hunger many times over.

[@NoahTopper]

I do think there's a difference between animals and humans. The capacity to suffer is what's relevant in moral considerations. That's why we care more about people than rocks. There is also clearly a scale of suffering. Insects or fish seem to be quite limited, while mammals can suffer more. Next comes interests, as you say. A cow possibly has the same capacity for pain as me, although I'm not sure. But even if we share the lowest lows, we don't share the highest highs. This makes owning a person evil, while owning a cow is fine, because the cow has an extremely limited ability to care about or enjoy freedom. I think you actually make a strong argument that primates require a great deal more moral consideration, perhaps comparable to mentally impaired humans. Overall I agree with Singer to a certain degree. The future will look back at factory farming in shame and disgust. The lives of animals _are_ important (if not quite as important as human's) and we should strive to alleviate their suffering.

[@NoahTopper]

If you're not aware of pain, I don't know in what sense you'd be feeling it. But that could be an argument for cows feeling diminished pain, sure.

[@nehuen9333]

so we shall care to alleviate the pain of others species before our own?(that not what you said i know but its the argument of many herbivores)...cause i think we live around the globe in such a good society that pain in all kinds of levels does not exist

[@XyntXII]

what do you mean with "before our own" here? why not just try to do the best in all of the cases?

[@JillianBohrer]

Still don't understand why you aren't vegan or at least vegetarian, Hank. You could send such a powerful message by going vegan!

[@JillianBohrer]

Especially since you obviously know about the issues and have made multiple videos about it in the past.

[@abracadabra2395]

@crashcourse I've been watching your philosophy videos and I just wanted to say "thank you" for all of this hard work!

[@kevinoneal9779]

The Answer? Nothing. All life is equally meaningless.

[@kevinoneal9779]

just a boi Now you're catching on.

[@kevinoneal9779]

Cody Sprigg You're overthinking it. Just roll with the anarchy.

[@DearValentina]

Sartre would you just chill out?

[@cicadafun]

Cody Sprigg That argument says nothing about why things should be objectively meaningful. Complexity does not mean objective, meaningful existence/function in the universe.

[@AlexanderZapataIndividual]

You can make arbitrary conparisons to asymptotically degrade the meaning of something. But this is only a perspective trick. You know there is meaning in YOU not suffering. I will see you running from what BAD IS.

[@ValCronin]

NUMBERS. That is what decides whether hunting is okay or not. And there are NOT enough lions to be going around hunting them, or bears, or giraffes, or wild cats!

[@zaru317]

i don't think that's the case, humans have been responsable for the extintion of any number of species over their history, hunting animals regardless of their numbers. Moreover, there are a shit ton of cats and dogs around the world, why it wouldn't be okay to eat or hunt them?.

[@justtheouch]

But there are plenty of humans around, so is it ok to hunt them?

[@DWerner7822]

NUMBERS? Really?! Interesting... I like the way you think. Quick, someone get me the latest human population numbers.

[@ValCronin]

8-9 billion really isn't that much when you compare it to insects.

[@BullShitThat]

So it's okay to murder them, as long as they're in abundance... got it! What's this?... '7.5 billion humans', you don't say?

[@taylordossetor3608]

OH MY GOD I ALREADY LOVED THIS CHANNEL BUT NOW I LOVE YOU EVEN MORE THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

[@michaelallaway8650]

A written transcript to accompany this video for high school students would come in very handy and make this an awesome educational tool for all learning styles

[@mgb360]

From a utilitarian perspective, if we're counting all animal suffering as equal, what of carnivores? Would it not be preferable for the population of lions to go extinct rather than have the many more animals be killed and eaten to sustain them? As for hunting a carnivore, wouldn't the suffering of the one carnivore that was killed be outweighed by the many more animals that were spared by removing the carnivore from the environment?

[@oleksiy4618]

Yes. Wild animal suffering is an awfully important and neglected topic. Contrary to the idyllic view of nature, life in the wild is cruel and inhospitable to its inhabitants. This is especially true because most species are r-selected, which means they produce a lot of offspring, most of whom die well before they reach adulthood, often in painful ways. Predation, hunger, thirst, injury, parasitism, cold, heat... None of us would want to endure that, so it makes sense to feel bad for animals who have it imposed on them involuntarily. Now, removing carnivores is a little risky because it may result in an overpopulation of herbivores, who will suffer quite a bit in their lives, even if they're not killed by a predator. A better solution is to reduce the amount of primary productivity (plant life). That way, less herbivores would be able to exist because there would be less food and, consequently, less carnivores will be able to exist. Ideally tho, we can wipe out the whole damn thing eventually. It's not like there's any grand purpose to the whole consumption-reproduction cycle, other than its own perpetuation. But something tells me environmentalist lunatics will oppose it because "nature is sacred" or some other crazy woo. +Mgb 360

[@mgb360]

+Oleksiy I think there is more to be valued from the environmental cycle than simply an argument of nature as sacred. There are many scientific discoveries we would never have made were it not for the animals that exist in our world. As one example, lets say pigs were not nearly as tasty as they are in reality, and as such were wiped out in the 1800's because they were decided to be a nuisance. Because they have not been wiped out in reality, we now have them and can use them for some very beneficial things. We may, at some point in the future, be able to grow replacement human organs inside a genetically modified pig so that those organs can be transplanted into the human to replace failed organs. Obviously, we aren't there yet, and it leaves a potential for a lot of issues, but it is possible that, in the future, it may be worthwhile to do so. Likewise, if we decided to exterminate all life that wasn't immediately necessary for our survival, it may turn out to be a poor decision later down the line and the consequences of those actions could very well be irreversible.

[@ThePrimordialChronicles]

Mgb 360 Killing the lion would cause an overgrowth of some populations that would lead eventually to death of many other plant eating species because of less and less plants to eat :p

[@AhsimNreiziev]

+

[@mgb360]

Szkotu Szkocki There always has to be a balance to minimize death, but it's entirely possible that the balance was shifted in a way that killing the lion would be useful. Either way, lowering the total number of creatures so that the balance is lower would be preferable.

[@Bunny-pb6dl]

Alright. Going vegan.

[@inlinuxdude]

Welcome! May I suggest /r/vegan as a resource?

[@JamesOfTheYear]

Yay :)

[@XDCherylLi]

I'm impressed! Very few people are willing to turn the critical lens onto themselves and make changes that would go against the mainstream.

[@Vasileski88]

LOL that's all it took to convince you? I expect you'll go right back just as fast.

[@SergeantPotato1]

Reina B congrats!

[@mikeRoweSoftLee]

I've always wanted to be vegetarian

[@skinhead-vasya]

Good for you, thats not so hard to do)

[@tristant4139]

sadiq Mungus it's better to be vegan and stop all suffering caused by you

[@SalamanderMagic]

sadiq Mungus Why not do it? It isn't really that hard. It's a bit difficult at first, and then it's just like second nature to avoid meat.

[@jedi22300]

+palidine champion that kind of giant change in lifestyle is very difficult though. Becoming a vegetarian is a good start.

[@abs_nobody]

... but I guess eating veggies all life didn't seem so appealing to you

[@shiny_x3]

I'll be really glad when we can grow meat in a lab cost-effectively.

[@someguy2135]

Me too. I would not eat it for health reasons, but it would help more people stop eating meat.

[@jonleary4107]

Personification, pure and simple. Humans like some animals more than others. We like dogs, cats, and other traditional pets because we attribute them to being fun, innocent, loyal, caring, etc. Essentially, we project or notice certain qualities about them that we value. By contrast, we rarely think of cows, chickens, or pigs outside of their purpose as farm animals. When Cecil and Harambe were shot, people were offended because of the circumstance. Harambe was in a zoo, would have lived a long peaceful life, if not for the child that fell in and the reaction of the staff. Cecil was in an animal in a national park, and was hunted purely for sport. He was also a member of a species which was declared endangered later that year. As the video pointed out, you might consider self defense and/or other factors to be justification. However that doesn't apply here. Cecil was killed for a trophy and bragging rights. Harambe was shot, because an irresponsible parent neglected to stop their child from climbing into a gorilla enclosure. As I said, we like some animals more than we like others and it shows in the manner with which we treat them.

[@Sandandmudy]

Jon Leary personification of humans and cats over farm animals etc. in other words, speciesism

[@JudahDavis]

But why is speciesism bad Sundar? We can't use the way we feel as the root of our morality.

[@ivaaferr8141]

Judah Davis because you are putting your commodity before the life of others. There's no justification and you are just being tremendously hypocritical if you are against racism, sexism, but not speciesism. Sorry bout it

[@JudahDavis]

@@ivaaferr8141 Yes but you see that is your opinion based on how you feel about other animals. The reason why sexism and racism is wrong is because we humans are of equal value (not on a invidual basis but certainly on a global basis). You assume that animals also are of equal value but why do you think that? You have no God so what do you base your morals on?

[@anassorbestiak]

that was very interesting indeed, made me think about my choices a lot..

[@he.smile_]

Well, this video just saved me from failing my philosophy exam tomorrow! Thank you.❤

[@penych6978]

Thank u for this! I love all your videos but this was the most enlightening, interesting and bold one! ❤️

[@nowhereman6019]

Watching this while eating a delicious roast beef sandwich. The cows death was totally worth it.

[@skinhead-vasya]

I think it`s exactly the point. You are given a new perspective on aspect of consuming meat, and you just basically saying "i don't give a damn about morals or philosophy, I just want to write a stupid comment to get some lol's". Somebody is skipping his philosophy homework.

[@nowhereman6019]

Сашко Дмитренко Nope, just giving an observation of my dinner and a conclusion based on my enjoyment of it.

[@YaroslavNechaev]

The video doesn't condemn meat eaters, it just asks us to be consistent and question our motivations. Nothing wrong with eating meat. So probably it's you who didn't do his philosophy homework)

[@ifallelsfails]

Sean Drum And opting not to actually engage yourself with the challenges that come with your decision.

[@julianw7097]

Yaroslav Nechaev What is the morally relevant difference then?

[@mono90286]

I'm watching the previous video on discrimination. Hank: Please share your views - *kindly and respectfully* - in the comments." I scroll down. The comments are turned off. Me: "Yikes."

[@abelmagana8985]

Glad you raised this topic up in your content👏🏽.

[@davidel38]

problably you wouldnt eat fluffy just because you have an emotive bond with it, not because he is A cat but because he is YOUR cat, this doesnt preclude the fact that you could eat any cat

[@heatherforrest3862]

This hurts my heart. I'm so happy I do not eat meat. I love all animals.

[@BurnEmDown1]

Veganism isn't about saving animals, it's about not killing them. Also if she wants she can save animals too, have you ever heard of an animal rescue farm?

[@heatherforrest3862]

Christopher Murray My idelness... ? Excuse you, you do not know me and I'm extremely involved with helping animals on the streets. I do my part to be a better human, to be kind to other living beings.

[@BurnEmDown1]

oh, so it's irrational to be happy about causing much less harm to animals, polluting the enviroment in a much lower scale, and eating much healthier? please

[@BurnEmDown1]

www.countinganimals.com/how-many-animals-does-a-vegetarian-save/ here is the article and also not counting the animals killed to make eggs and milk, another not-quite-so-small sum

[@BurnEmDown1]

and why would the scientists create lab-grown meat if there isn't a demand for it? vegans create demand for it, not meat-eaters. also, most people who work in those lab-grown meat are VEGANS themselves! and excuse me but I really doubt your assumptions that the "meat that is laying in stores go to waste", "because of me", allegedly, is hurting the animals more than the person who actually keeps buying meat and thus creates more demand for it.

[@julianw7097]

Name the trait present/absent in animals which if present/absent in you would cause you to reject your right to non-exploitation. Untill you do so you hold a double standard by denying animals their right to non-exploitation.

[@apocalypse7158]

Julian W Hee-ayy! it's the Ask Yourself fan again.

[@julianw7097]

BlackMetalCrusader We meat again.

[@Jontman42]

Name the trait that gives animals, or humans for that matter, their right to non-exploitation.

[@julianw7097]

Jontman42 Sentience. Well, it is not like the trait does. We give objects value. I'm just checking if you are consistent.

[@Jontman42]

Why does sentience give this right?

[@Master_Therion]

What about "Non-Animal Humans?" Sometimes I can swear my sister is a vegetable, and I think it would be okay to kill her.

[@nsasha96]

I hope you are kidding

[@Master_Therion]

Alexander Nasonov Yep, it's a joke.

[@recklessroges]

That is being discussed in Europe right now. Artificial Intelligence Laws. Cutting edge Philosophy.

[@bakenbacongaming4255]

Don’t choke on the wheelchair

[@Kevin-zv6ds]

Hey Therion just wanted to say 93, 93 93/93

[@CarlosMendoza-zw2gw]

So glad you made an episode on this subject. Great info and go vegan!

[@charityelaine448]

Good stuff. Very thought-provoking.

[@danferno]

Place your bets: who's gonna be more obnoxious, vegans or non-vegans?

[@numnumtasty8597]

non-vegans,because MEAT IS GOOD ps.I'm a non-vegan

[@DWerner7822]

Vegans are always obnoxious... especially when they fart.

[@SalamanderMagic]

Daniel F. da Nobrega Non vegans. Vegans are harassed so much already. I never see them shouting about it anymore.

[@jedi22300]

Non-vegans are more obnoxious, because of their insistence on not using reasoning.

[@Gregoryzaniz]

Which one are you?

[@mat2th]

really no mention of haranbe?

[@DWerner7822]

I'll mention him, if it will make you feel better. During the short time the child was in the gorilla's care, Harambe was more watchful of the child than the boy's own mother. R.I.P. Harambe. May you win the next Presidential Election.

[@TheFat346]

Thought this would be the top comment, I am disappointed.

[@eternaCabelera]

DID SOMEBODY SAY HARAMBE?

[@jordantierney6495]

Mateus Sr literally the reason I came to the comment section

[@MrDylan2125]

Dicks out for Harambee!

[@gonzo1483]

I love the arguements you chose to fit into 10 mins.

[@diggledigloto8630]

what about insects?

[@DrunkenAussie76]

Gerardo Rosa second comment about insects I have stumbled across and again the only response is crickets.

[@JamesOfTheYear]

Insects are not a main source of food (at least in my culture). And as far as i know, it's still debated whether they feel pain.

[@Medivh73]

They TOTALLY can FEEL PAIN. Why shouldn't they? They have the same Central nervous system as we. There is no question about it.

[@JamesOfTheYear]

They have such a short lifespan, it seems that the learning behaviour associated with pain avoidance would not be effective. Admitedly I am not an expert on the subject. I strive to avoid hurting insects too, just in case.

[@DrunkenAussie76]

James Fox cicadas live up to 17 years, how much time do they need?

[@splifle]

Amazing video, so much needed information

[@FamilyFreedom]

And great that it's coming from such a big channel too :)

[@kike_zeron]

This the best one I've seen, and I love this show

[@achyka3802]

Probably my favourite video on this channel. Thank you.

[@PrettyGoodChannel]

Ah! So much truth, perfectly delivered. Thank you Crash Course

[@DavidRojas17]

Loved it. Animals are even much more important than us for the world, without bunch of them the world would die, without us it would be perfect again. Animals are the best♥

[@DWerner7822]

David Rojas, if the world was void of humans then who would track down and kill all the animals that MURDER other animals. Some really sick, twisted and demented animals (yes, I am referring to cats) kill solely for the satisfaction of watching innocent animals suffer and die.

[@DavidRojas17]

Haha yeah, the animals which hunt doves or pretty birds just for leaving them roting out there. But well, you know the world worked perfectly without us for a hundred of years, it has its order and the animals themselves are the regulators of the animal population.

[@Ladifour]

David Rojas "Natural selection sure isn't brutal in anyway.

[@azzanine1710]

It's a damn shame that due to the discourse of militant vegans with obstinate meat eaters has rendered that discourse in such a bad state that meat eaters feel judged and find this video preachy. This is merely a study of Philosophy, Hank isn't suggesting everyone go vegan, in fact I'm not sure what his position on that is, he could have retired to eating a big old bacon and egg sandwich after shooting this vid for all we know. He's just saying if you claim to value all life but eat meat you are in a moral dilemma. I could very well change my outlook to valuing no life after viewing this video.

[@our_illumination949]

I appreciate that you point this out because everyone's response to this video is that they should become vegan. Yet that does not answer all of the problems concerning the treatment of non-human animals. Vegans still have the capacity to not treat non-human animals in the best possible way, some even lack the capacity of treating humans with the same respect simply because they are (surprise) not vegans. So the hypocrisy is entertaining to say the least.

[@BloopyBlobBob]

I really would like to see these militant vegans everyone's always talking about. Wierd how they're never on the pages I'm on. If you mean groups like the Animal Liberation Front then I suggest you actually look into what they do. They rescue animals. They don't carry weapons, they don't threaten people. Maybe they do a bit of graffiti sometimes. How is that militant though? Or are the activists that peacefully enter factories to protest militant when they get get arrested for wanting to save an animal from being murdered? Again, let's not use inflammatory terms please. And meat eaters feel judged no matter what because of the cognitive dissonance they experience. I felt guilty when I found out about everything, but I never blamed my vegan friend for the way I was feeling. I was able to admit to myself that my own actions made me feel that way because they didn't align with my views of my own morality and beliefs

[@rtybn456]

which means, if you don't value life or don't believe in the universality of morality, there's no moral dilemma.

[@katandann]

I agree...but I also understand why vegans get so angry. Think about it: vegans have so much empathy for animals that, every time they remember the ongoing cruelty, they feel anger and frustration, and they know it's happening on a massive scale, far more than even necessary. They direct their anger to those whom they perceive to be causing it. However, I wish they would tone it down a little. I especially wish they would laud the people who do care and aim to reduce their consumption and be mad that people aren't perfect: I'd rather have people who are trying, but imperfect, than people who are doing nothing at all. Perfection is impossible but we can all aim to do better and better. I say that as an ovo-lacto vegetarian whom vegans seem to dislike strongly. They say I'm "worse than a meat eater." (That itself is a complicated statement. I don't think meat eaters are bad people, although I think killing animals without necessity is a horrible thing. It's complicated. It's hairy. Good people can learn to rationalize bad things. It's how we survive but also how we continue bad things.)

[@onan5846]

Well, now you don't appreciate any life even with conscience. But at least you are honest about that and don't try to find any fancy excuse like the rest of people.

[@ilusha88]

The intelligence/sentience gap between humans as a species and any other is a qualitative difference that defines all. The edge cases don't disturb this judgment, they just benefit from the deference and respect we have for humanity as a whole.

[@carsonbarlow348]

I'm a speciesist. I do however, think that we have gone too far with favoring humans, and I'd like to see a gradual shift towards a more harmonious existence between us and nature. But when push comes to shove, I'll pick humans over other animals all damn day (all else being equal).

[@22blue3]

It's not between choosing a human or a non-human animal though. It's between hurting the animal, or hurting neither (unless it's a life or death situation.) Animal agriculture is also one of the most destructive practices humans engage in www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0048969715303697 www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212371713000024 www.fao.org/newsroom/en/News/2006/1000448/index.html

[@stephaniesantos78]

of course you would, it is your species. but push has not come to shove, there hasn't even been a tap. it benefits us in every way not to eat animals, so it is the logical choice to make. if a house is burning, i will save the baby before the puppy. but that hasn't happened, and no one puts a gun to someone else's head so that i'll eat meat.

[@carsonbarlow348]

Thank you both for your respectful replies. The key phrase is 'all things being equal'. Stephanie, you are right, it has not come to that (baby vs puppy). I consider it a reasonable reality that you guys are way ahead of the curve when it comes to balancing humans in nature. I lack a lot of understanding in this. I hope we can share more knowledge some time in the future.

[@stephaniesantos78]

Carson Barlow a lot of people say to watch forks over knives, then cowspiracy, and then earthlings (the first two are on netflix). while those a great documentaries and great sources, they can be a little much to digest at once. i recommend bite size vegan on youtube. she is a sea of knowledge and nonjudgemental.

[@carsonbarlow348]

stephanie santos Thank you so much for the thoughtfulness of your suggestions.

[@shibani7304]

I am a vegan since 3 years. Its a beautiful way of living life without causing any harm to the most innocent being. And its very important to spread this message. Its important to stop animal breeding and all stuffs to save our EARTH.

[@DuranmanX]

Is it wrong to kill insects too?

[@DrunkenAussie76]

Adrian Duran the replies to this comment are deafaning.

[@asliuf]

i haven't read anything about the ethics or nutritional hazards/benefits of eating insects. i just know a little about all of the studies studying the huge benefits of a plant based whole foods diet

[@irrelevantFJS]

I would say there obviously becomes a grey line at one point. You have to kind of decide what's your line in the sand. Many people go by the development of the central nervous system and the ability to feel pain. So a jellyfish has neither of these, and therefore you'd be HARD PRESSED to find someone who could defend a stance on not eating them (morality wise). So then you'd have to look at insects and make a judgement call with the science we have.

[@DrunkenAussie76]

Ara Mahar insects have brains and a nervous system. who cares about eating them, the wholesale slaughter of them for inconveniencing people should put the vegans in a truly ambiguous moral dilemma.

[@socksinsandals1082]

does insects have a brain and nervous system?

[@skydawson3147]

I absolutely love this! Thank you, Hank!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@TheNellehFox]

I would probably eat any clean, healthy meat served to me, regardless of species. I wouldn't eat the animal if I had a bond with the individual in life, because I wouldn't personally be able to eat something I'm grieving. My issue expands from my inability to even touch uncooked meat, the texture repulses me. I couldn't kill the animal, or cut up a dead one. But if it was cooked, I could eat it. Dog, cat, whatever. So long as it's not going to kill me...

[@subjectnamehere3023]

Would you also eat a factory-farmed human?

[@ErnieTessein]

So you're okay with paying someone to kill an animal for you and you're okay with paying someone to cook an animal for you, but you can't do it yourself

[@FlorenceFox]

+[Subjektnamen hier eingeben] Real talk? I'm kinda curious how human would taste, ya know, properly cooked and seasoned and all that. Not saying I'd kill someone to find out, but, ya know. Still curious.

[@abs_nobody]

we used to have clean, farmed dog meat until these people started being specesist and hating on the farms so now we get unclean, captured stray dog meat being served the results turned out great, didn't it

[@Glizzygliz]

ernietessein 👌🏼 hypocritical, right?

[@nathanaeln]

go vegan

[@tnorthrup1986]

that solves what? the distinction is not quite that clean, even then.

[@Msbeeboper]

but they cant SUFFER. that was the whole point-- they have no way of feeling pain and that's the distinction.

[@apocalypse7158]

Marco Onyxheart that's an easy question, the moral differentiating trait between animals and plants is sentience.

[@ameliaschaeffer4914]

Most of it has to do with sentience. Animals, even ones without fully developed brains tend to have neural tissue and the ability to suffer and feel pain, as mentioned in the video. Plants cannot feel pain, although they may have the ability to react to stimulus, something called noceception, this is not the same as the ability to experience pain. And anyway, if your idea is to reduce suffering (operating under the hypothetical that plants could feel pain), going vegan actually means you're killing fewer plants because the extra plants you eat barely compare to the amount of plant food that is grown and used to feed to animals that are used for meat, milk, and eggs.

[@fell5514]

You can't prove that plants don't suffer.

[@danielroberts5276]

5:00 Tis but a scratch

[@bchararaad1870]

This video's topic is really interesting! Love it :)

[@amyfinch8602]

awww this is my favorite episode of Crash course ever!

[@guerrillasneeded]

Powerful video. Thank you for this!

[@mariappalala]

Great thorough video!! Well done! Are you following a plant based diet?

[@spennyb89]

Yeah, I'd like to hear Hank's personal response to this since he talks about delicious bacon often enough.

[@EbyKat]

Maria Yablokova he's spoken about it on his podcast. While he would like to be vegan he has tried the diet and it isn't for him. If I recall correctly he likely eats less meat than the average American but he still happily enjoys meat.

[@BeastOrGod]

Are plants lesser creatures just because they don't feel pain? Is it ok to uproot them, dry them, chop them into small portions and eat them, just because they don't have pain receptors? Aren't plants living and growing creatures? Look at your furniture, those are made from dead organism, just because they feel pain. It's ok, they don't have cute faces, just kill them.

[@BeastOrGod]

I love how vegans just assumes that everyone's not vegan just because they disagree. So, you're saying that you would have no problem eating chicken legs, if someone genetically created a chicken with no pain receptors or can't feel suffering? And yes, the process of this genetic experimenting cause no suffering or harm to animals.

[@BeastOrGod]

Semantics, yes, yes you did. But animals can't give consent, nor can the plants, does this mean we can't eat anything that haven't given us consent? What type of consent would it be? Like, roll over and play dead? Jump in front of your car? and what about plants? Sure, they do give fruits, but we genetically modify those plants to hold no seed at all, without their consent.

[@oTONY27272727o]

The argument at the end was so spot-on for so many people I know who bash on "vegans" or "vegetarians" in saying that eating meat is justified because the animals being eaten don't matter because meat is meat. But, with that same statement how could anyone say that eating dog (like in many Asian countries) is a justified thing to do.

[@johnstevenson6006]

I would argue that you and I can only be responsible for things we can do. For example, I cannot slaughter a pig because I own no pigs nor, if I were to steal or buy a pig, have experience in proper butchering. However, I can buy bacon as I have bought other things. The way I see it, there are two defenses against this (though if there are more, please correct me). First, the obvious "This is no better than the but that's how it's always been done argument". Second, "You could just as easily come into possession of vegan objects". To counter the first: There's a reason it has always been done this way, because we cannot take actions we are not capable of taking. Let's say I make 2000 a month, rent is 1000, utilities are 200, and bills that ensure continued employment are 600. I then have 200 dollars to sustain myself with until the next month. I can buy 2 burgers for 2 dollars, knowing that I will not risk hunger, or I can risk 2 dollars on greens hoping that they will sustain me. As I cannot afford the risk, the risk is not taken. Which leads to the second: The reason greens are a risk is because not all are readily edible, and those that are generally are more expensive than an equally priced fast-food product. Were I to stockpile potatos and chives, the potatos could last maybe a month, but I'm not aware of a wholly potato diet. Lettuce is a dollar, sure, but it's not filling. I personally believe the case for the first is pretty strong, as otherwise you would be asking people to risk their livelyhood on switching diets. The case for the second I make based on my experience. I did try to eat lighter, but not everyone starts at 70 lbs, and if you drop too fast you're going to do some serious damage. I suppose an argument could be made about the worthwhileness of one's livelyhood, but I think a fundamentally good thing is a plethora of experiences. There are plenty of sorrowful and untimely experiences that can be learned about to sustain life longer, but as current experience holds that obtaining wealth would lead to continued life and production of more experiences, sacrificing one's livelyhood would not be justified. /tldr : Going vegan is expensive, experiences guide "life" and more is better, wealth allows for more experiences.

[@oTONY27272727o]

I can definitely support the notion that, let's call it vegan food, is not as readily available as going to a diner/fast food restaurant and purchasing a quick meal. When I was living in Boston, attending college, I was a flat broke 22 year old with barely enough money to make it out of the month. I was definitely not vegan then. I was interested in enjoying food that tasted good, that was quick to find and buy, and that didn't put a hole in my pocket. In my opinion, I could argue now that this was a selfish, but survivalist way of living. I didn't care about saving animals, protecting the earth, or trying to be healthy. Occasionally, I did try to eat as well as I could, but it was never a priority. My point here is that I agree with your statement that a vegan/vegetarian lifestyle requires more wealth than just eating whatever one needs to make it through the week. However, I can just as easily argue against that saying, that if I used my current state of wealth to live a much more luxurious lifestyle, I could forget my vegan mentality and resort back to a cheap food/ quick meal diet. I could get a better apartment, lease a much more expensive car, and take my girlfriend out to dinner at least twice a week. I could be living under the same conditions as I was when I was vegan, but instead of using my money as a tool for better health, I would now be using it to upgrade my present state of self-worth, luxury, and materialism. But now, let's go back to my current vegan state, with all of my current living standards. If I was to get fired from my job, with a significant pay decrease, I would have to seriously plan out each week what food I was going to buy, when and how to cook it, and make sure I was getting the proper nutrients to sustain myself. This would be a very stressful lifestyle because I would also have to balance paying for living expenses, and there wouldn't be much room for free time or spontaneous activities. However, I think that with the proper strategy and positive state of mind, I could make it happen. I could plan out monthly budgets and activities to fill up the month. And, with extra money leftover sometimes, I could take a Saturday just doing whatever I wanted. So, I would like to hear your thoughts on whether you think living healthy could be something that all people could do if they focused on balancing all aspects of their life with the proper education, or if you think that human beings have an instinctual tendency to look out for the self and live a survivalist lifestyle thus ever preventing us from moving on past a single-minded existence. It really makes me think that human beings need to evolve again. We need to overcome our small group-think cultures and adopt a more full-species way of living. This, I think would make us similar to the honey bee, and then I guess somewhat robotic. But in my opinion, having all humans working together toward a humanist lifestyle that benefits ourselves and the earth would be an incredible thing. Maybe not in my lifetime, but I can hope.

[@BroderickMcGarvey]

I like totally get caught up on the value of my own life all of the time, the amount of plants, I have ate and animals. I question the value of my own life over any other existence of anything... Also intelligence is a human made up word, definition and standard... Are humans even really the most intellectual... :( smh It's human-centric ideologies..

[@Ruskul]

If intelligence does not reference a meaningful organization in reality, then what is the thing we call intelligence? By that, I mean the mechanisms whereby an entity is better suited to projecting hypothetical realities and selecting whichever is deemed most beneficial, given the entity's goals. I think human's do posses the greatest ability to do the above. Consequently, The rest of nature doesn't give the slightest care for your quandary. Value, on the other hand, is a bit more abstract and arbitrary and is contingent upon intelligence existing, in that, without some form of intelligence, it is pretty darn hard to value anything. A simple ant can be said to have a set of values, but no where is it considering value in the abstract. According to nature, and by the rules of its game, the only entity patterns worthy to progress to the next slice of time are those that preserve themselves. Energy accumulation for the purpose of information preservation and expansion is the only value that matters at this level. If creating a set of values helps you to not die long enough to reproduce and ensure offspring success, or if it helps you more broadly ensure your species success, then your pattern is acceptable to nature, and is likely to be repeated. At a different level, if you can use intelligence and agency to preserve yourself and also safeguard others in the process, well, that is unique.

[@numnumtasty8597]

PETA's going to have a field day on this

[@apocalypse7158]

Num Num Tasty is this a copy and paste? Or did you edited the comment from "vegans" to "PETA"?

[@numnumtasty8597]

what are you talking about? why would I c-c c-v another comment ?

[@apocalypse7158]

Num Num Tasty Because there is another comment exactly like yours under this video.

[@BarelloSmith]

Thanks for bringing up this very subject, this problem kept me occupied for a long time now.... Though I'm vegetarian and soon will become a vegan, I don't necessarily feel moraly superior to someone who eats meat just for that reason. I mean, as a biologist I get the idea that some species have to eat other species for survival and that they just can't treat those other species the same way as their own kind in order to surive as a species. Ok sure, people don't have to eat meat in today's western societies for survival but there are some nutrients that are really hard to come by with a just vegetarian diet, like omega-3 fatty acids which are an essential part of human brain development. Of course there are some ways to get them artificially but is that really the right way to go? Although I know that our prehistoric ancestors were mostly vegetarians, meat was a crucial part of their diet nonetheless. There's even a well-grounded theory that many of our phsyical traits like our upright walk and our wrinkling fingers derive from an ancesstor who specialized in fishing with his hands in shallow water. So is it ok to justify eating meat on a regular basis because nature "intended" me to eat like that or because it's my biological identity?

[@plantspirit9289]

Barello, I love that you are asking questions. I want to thank you for having an open mind and ask yourself the difficult question.. Do I NEED to kill a living sentient being in order for me to survive.. This is a HUGE question that has many interesting sides.. enjoy your journey :)

[@atomnous]

Barello Smith Buddy science is the right way to go about this if it means it can cause less suffering. And you have any right to feel morally superior than the rest of us because you are if you're vegan. (No need to be offended, non-vegans, I'm not a vegan or even vegetarian too.)

[@BeastOrGod]

The question is, why is it ok to kill and eat plants, but not animals? Because of pain and suffering? So, can we mutilate plants into funny shapes of food, just because they don't have pain receptors? They are living creatures like fluffy, so, what if Fluffy didn't have pain receptors? can we kill and eat fluffy because he won't suffer? Are plants inferior creatures?

[@Abby-qn4gl]

Solitude--- My brain just exploded. I'm just gonna go eat some dirt, k?

[@ExoticTerrain]

The key is suffering. It's unacceptable to cause needless suffering to any life form.

[@ExoticTerrain]

Hehe, I didn't finish the video before I commented.

[@darklogic6998]

@@ExoticTerrain You should modify your answer to "any sentient form of life". Because tree and plants are also considered forms of life.

[@ExoticTerrain]

@@darklogic6998 Yes, and they can suffer just as any other form of life.

[@darklogic6998]

@@ExoticTerrain So is it immoral to walk on grass?

[@ExoticTerrain]

@@darklogic6998 No just like it's not immoral to eat. But it is immoral to eat excessively or to clear cut whole forests.

[@charstringetje]

7:22 yes it is about harm... to *me*. Eating an animal that is on top of a food chain is a bad idea. Toxins of all their prey will have accumulated in them. Furthermore the only valid reason to eat meat is pleasure. I don't expect the meat of an old sickly cat to be any good. But if you reframe it to a younger kitten that was driven over and died under your porch. I'd guess the meat would be more like a nice rabbit (plus some extra toxins). I mostly eat a whole foods plant-based diet, but mainly for selfish reasons. My health comes first, and that using agricultural area for food instead of animal feed is more efficient and sustainable comes only as a nice byproduct. That my diet puts me in the same category as the moral vegans (that only come off their high horse for the horses sake, and not to be any less obnoxious) in the views of many, I find a unfortunate evil.

[@JasonTodd339]

Reaching back to the video on personhood and similar one's, our taxonomy and biology are different. Yes, I eat non-human animals and I see no reason to cease

[@sajfen]

Pain, suffering, death, environmental destruction, negative health effects. No reason?

[@rodrigoappendino]

I think you should have talked about economical arguments.

[@SharpsKC]

"We'd never dream of using another human being in these ways" Oh my little innocent lecturer.

[@illdie314]

Think of a future where the deep web is home to livestreams of people eating chicken. I just want that future because it sounds hilarious.