Family Secrets | FULL EPISODE | The FBI Files

The December 1994 kidnappings of Joann Katrinak and her 4-month-old son, Alex. This was one of the first cases of DNA being successfully used in a criminal investigation in the United States. Unravel the mystery alongside the FBI's greatest law enforcers and forensic scientists.
#TheFBIFiles #TrueCrime #FullEpisode
Season 2 Episode 11: In December 1994, Joann Katrinak and her 4-month-old son, Alex, mysteriously disappeared from their home. A new DNA technique ended the mystery, in one of the first cases of DNA being successfully used in a criminal investigation in the United States.
The FBI Files is an American docudrama that takes a look behind the scenes of the Federal Bureau of Investigation's crime laboratory.
Real FBI cases are recounted through reenactments and interviews, due to the sensitive nature of the show, viewer discretion is advised.

[@ambramarrs7325]

So awful to murder a new mother and innocent child out of jealousy- Glad she was caught- So sad 😞 for the husband and grieving family!

[@lou_isse1938]

This case was featured in Forensic Files. The crime scene photos were so sad. And the baby was so cute too. He was holding his favorite red phone toy in the picture. That woman is heartless for killing them.

[@lou_isse1938]

Cher L. I watched that episode when I was still in highschool. I cried because Forensic Files used the real crime scene photos. It really left a deep impression on me. I never knew the phrase “If I can’t have you, nobody can” was actually true and not some crazy ex-lover phrase used in romcoms.

[@hartfeltopinion6178]

louisse jabol yep. And lots of morons out there advocating for her release.

[@KaraLynnJack]

@@hartfeltopinion6178 really!!? Wow why???!!!

[@hartfeltopinion6178]

Kara here claims of not enough evidence. I think maybe Dateline has episode that’s geared toward her innocence

[@KaraLynnJack]

@@hartfeltopinion6178 Oh ok. Thanks, I'll have a look.

[@teresabaker-carl9668]

I remember when this mother and baby were found. I cried all day. It was sickening to think that someone could be so cold and callous as to do such a thing and walk away.

[@KamalasNotLikeUs]

I’ll bet you and your racist town thought a black man had done it. Get your stereotypes in order: Is it that black men don’t take care of their kids, or is it that they are so obsessed with kids that they’d steal yours (and have another mouth to feed)? Bigot.

[@mahaonexpress]

@@KamalasNotLikeUs hey what's wrong with you?? Where have you seen black people mentioned in the comment?? You should delete your beyond ridiculous comment.

[@dianabrownburchfield302]

@@KamalasNotLikeUs go home troll

[@estherkeeling777]

Unless the LORD tell me otherwise I AM NOT GOING TO GET ON MY KNEES OR LAY ON THE FLOOR TO MAKE IT EASY FOR SOMEONE TO KI ME I AM GOING DOWN SWINGING.

[@estherkeeling777]

This was horrendous and heart breaking sometimes I wish people could recieve what they dish out. BUT hopefully the evil woman repented and turned from her wicked ways. I don't believe that because someone pulls a gun on you, You have to do everything they say I would have ran to the street with my baby and took my chances hollering and screaming. Or if they made me drive I would have put the petal to the metal headed for a tree and turned the car so the impact would be on the side of the car they were on before impact I would have tried to push the gun away. When I was 19 a man kidnapped me and said he was going to rape me. But I made it through I wanted to fight but the LORD told me not to and I got through it without being raped.

[@sandybrecken6871]

Anyone who can kill a baby is truly sick in the head

[@JDMaya]

U.S. PLANNED PARENTHOOD, BARACK OBAMA, AND RUTH BADER GINGSBURG.

[@michillene]

Sandy Brecken...Evil is what I call it..Now,she's crying and saying she's innocent.

[@JDMaya]

@@michillene THANK GOD FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND THE FBI AND THEIR WORK AND INVESTIGATION, AND THE NEW TECHNOLOGY.

[@michillene]

@@JDMaya Yes! agreed..

[@michillene]

@@JDMaya Agreed...Right up until the birth...evil bastards.

[@raymondkymsuttle]

‘The officers were not convinced that the broken lock was connected’ - I’m not a trained detective but I’d immediately take that as a potential link to the events of the day!

[@CrissieLuckey]

DUH! No 5h!t, Sherlock!! Hmm? Hard one to figure, huh? Lady and her baby vanish... Must be one of those who prefer forcible EXIT when she goes holiday shopping. Esp. when heavy babe & gear are lugged down long staircase to the basement from which they disappear!

[@CrissieLuckey]

...On serious retrospection, it occurred to me that we must try to stay fair by some efforts to see it from their perspective. After all, this video depicts just one scenario that is reenacted long after the factual events. Did the door show lots of old damage or some defect from normal wear over time so its busted locks could justifiably deflect' interest of cops who first got to the crime scene? Was a "small" detail or key fact discovered that initially obscured true significance of the damaged locking mechanism? Or, for more likely is plain error/oversight by video creator and/or narrator. You might be shocked at how many times I have discovered that from my own followup investigation of true crimes featured by various YT outlets. Mere cursory research may reveal huge discrepancies between the real story and another one you see play out on your screen here.

[@ATAHUALPA867]

Their mind set back then was , either a fight and ran away but husband showed them so many clues, in the end parents found car . Unbelievable.

[@MissWitchiepoo]

@@ATAHUALPA867 What I think is unbelievable is that the mother-in-law is expecting them to show up to go shopping and when they don't she does nothing? Wouldn't any normal person call the husband and say she was worried or go to their home and look for them. So she says nothing until the husband calls them at 8PM that is just crazy. In my family if someone is not picking up the phone, they move heaven and earth, so it's very embarrassing when the person usually me, has put the phone somewhere like under my pillow so I can't hear it and I don't even live in the US and still there is this level of worry:)

[@ccharms60]

I would put a laughing emoji if this were not so sad like wtf a broken 🔐 should be the 1st clue🤷

[@aprilnelson9044]

This was disturbing to watch. God bless the men and women who have to face such horrors every day in the case of their work, and the families who have to endure such horrific acts.

[@JDMaya]

I HAD BEEN CARRYING A HEAVY HEART FILLED WITH SADNESS, THAT ACTUALLY HAD MADE ME ILL OR SICK.

[@lostinoz3198]

U hit a guilty nerve, I forget things like this happen all the time and yet I smile and even laugh while at the same time a fellow earthling is in some type of hell... one has to b very selfish or stupid to feel happy knowing that someone is in terrible pain as we laugh....

[@aprilnelson9044]

@@lostinoz3198 I get where you're coming from, but life is to be lived and not just endured, surely. I think we must help where we can, and remember to laugh and experience joy as often as possible, as there are so many who cannot.

[@sludge8506]

The Superior Courts 22 page opinion cites 24 factual errors, many of them extremely serious.

[@sholagrant5445]

Heartless woman! I hate cases like this, especially when it involves killing an infant. I feel for her poor husband Andy lost his entire family because of a pathetic woman scorned. . May she suffer for eternity. Not keen on wishing ill health on anyone but this woman deserves just that. Thank you for the upload.

[@FalloutJames123]

TafewGEWDzf4z

[@michillene]

Shola Grant..What kind of monster does this to an infant? OMG..it's horrific.

[@MilliVanilli2007]

No thank -you- for the MAJOR spolier!

[@michillene]

@The Alpha And The Omega She sure isn't a lady but I agree..extremely sick and evil.

[@michillene]

@The Alpha And The Omega And there are people,pleading hr case,saying she's innocent...LOL.

[@sherryclark4862]

Hell can't be hot enough for this kind of evil! Many thanks to all investigators for commitment to bringing justice!

[@sludge8506]

The Superior Courts 22 page opinion cites 24 factual errors, many of them extremely serious.

[@psychojpsychoj2801]

It is really to bad that we innthe US cannot kill murderers in the same manner as they kill their victims. Killing a baby is one of the most cold-hearted acts a person can commit. How her conscience doesn't drive her crazy is beyond me. She needs the death penalty like they give in China for some crimes! God help this crazy world.

[@pattypark8548]

​@@sludge8506🤔🤣😂😅🤧🤣😂😅😜🤪😅😂

[@cfreeman106]

@sherryclark4862 You haven't the faintest idea about justice, but seem to be quite an expert on being an armchair judge.

[@heatherstewart9300]

Never let anyone take you to another location, no matter what they threaten to do to you. You stand a far better chance fighting them off and, or, getting help, even if it means getting shot or knifed first. R.I.P. Joann and baby Alex. :(

[@melaniebrown768]

Absolutely right! I taught my children that and now make certain my grandchildren understand this too.

[@tracystrunkheide8232]

You are 💯 correct. Scream, fight, run but NEVER go to the next location no matter what the perpetrator says

[@raerae6422]

Aurora would have held the gun to the baby's head and threatened to kill him if Joann didn't cooperate and drive. I'm all for not going to the second location but its not as simple when the assailant is using your child (or someone else you care about) to get their way.

[@linfordrenno7651]

@RaeRae: this would be hard to do and against human nature but if she would have let baby get shot She could have still held her ground because Aurora would have had to shoot Joann right there too … to eliminate the witness

[@kerrymelano]

This is exactly what I said when the episode ended. Had she screamed or tey to fight.....but.... with panic and the intimidayion of the weapon, she just played along.

[@lin_mrachek]

This story makes me sick. Killing a mother and a tiny baby

[@touringthecitywalking9209]

Very sick!!!

[@kaylawilliams5183]

Yeah and saddened too!!!

[@alphonsotrip6579]

Sad to say this is the world we live in now when evilness is being witnessed more then ever signs of the end is near,Monsters are truly among us and are standing rite next to you but they are wolves in sheep clothing.

[@1Fisse]

i dont even get why she did it

[@NathanChisholm041]

Only in the good ol USA! No other country has so much crime no wonder with guns being as easy as candy to buy!

[@EyBeCeee]

The nerve to take a child and mother away and then start a family herself. No remorse.

[@amandaa3713]

@kay Please tell me that the perpetrator got life

[@cfreeman106]

@@amandaa3713 If you're referring to Rorrer as being the perpetrator.... this lady was wrongfully convicted. So, your plea for the perpetrator to get life, has not been fulfilled.

[@amandaa3713]

@@cfreeman106 If you watch the entire video, you would learn about Mitochobdrial DNA and that Pat Rorrer's blood dna matched the hair found.

[@Southamericangirl42]

@cfreeman106 You need to build Pat a shrine on your own website because you're both annoying and boring people to death. Hardly anybody even reads your comments because you're too condescending and too needy. Take care now.

[@ProudSalafi]

" A witness saw a man pulling the women against her will " So this man did nothing? Not even call police?The world is full of selfish cowards

[@pattjer]

Agreed

[@smurfiennes]

blackburn Preacher a lot of people don’t want to interfere with other people’s problem/privacy, with good and bad consequences.

[@avedepasoplata4574]

But he don't know it was a blond women

[@marthanolan1231]

Me watching from kenya in bed🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪🇰🇪❤

[@ProudSalafi]

@@smurfiennes One day if they are in trouble and nobody wants to interfere because of privacy reasons and they are being killed then they will know the importance of standing strong against criminals. It is our duty to help one another. At least call teh freaking police?

[@arlenesusanarivera7809]

This is crazy. She traveled so far to commit this crime. So sad that she couldn’t just leave this family alone

[@shawndouglass2939]

@Frank Skoda-Simmons I believe it's legal if the buyer has the right legal identification😋

[@INDLIS]

@Frank Skoda-Simmons But the gun jammed

[@razzberry4756]

@@INDLIS then she beat them

[@cfreeman106]

@@INDLIS Can't you get into your brainless skull, that the idea of a jamming gun was only a THEORY put forward by the prosecution at her trial.... and just to make it crystal clear to an idiot like you, and these others who seem to agree with you.... a theory is something that's imagined to have happened -- not something that actually occurred. There's absolutely no proof she used that gun or any other gun.

[@INDLIS]

@@cfreeman106 SHE DID YOU FUUUUUUUUCK

[@masakivlogs]

So painful for a child & mom to die like that.

[@mssugahill]

She killed an innocent mother and child because she told her not to call her house anymore. Then had the nerve to bring a child into the world. She is exactly where she belongs, I hope they kept baby Nicole far away from her.

[@murkedlikejay.6730]

My girlfriend left me for another guy and ever since I've been stalking her and trying to control myself from doing something.

[@Lee_Lee1776]

Dude. Why would you let yourself be distraught over someone who obviously didn't care about your feelings? She not worth the shit on your shoes if she did that to you. Don't let her cause you to do something you will definitely regret. Good men deserve a good woman...and vice versa.

[@dreamsofturtles1828]

@@murkedlikejay.6730 Nows the time to look at why. Its not really about your cheating girlfriend, its an insult from the past, probably childhood, that has been triggered. I had the same nearly out of control reaction when my partner cheated on me. See a good psychologist, your entire life can be upgraded & you will find a better woman next time.

[@cfreeman106]

mssugahill While most of those who comment on this site may be of the same mind as you in seeing Rorrer as guilty, I find it amazing how you and all these others can be so judgmental by simply watching this video. The producers of this video fail to show what actually happened and, even worse, made up their own scenarios to suit their own exaggerated version. You are really in no position to set yourself as a judge without knowing ALL the facts. I agree the crime is as bad as it can possibly be, but that's no reason to jump to your conclusion about her guilt and be so vicious with your comment. Just consider yourself fortunate it wasn't you, because that is what's happened to her..... she's innocent and has been subjected to a disgraceful miscarriage of justice. Acquaint yourself with all the facts first and then comment. There are several documentaries available and a book which depict a very different picture than what this video has shown.

[@kellyweingart3692]

“I never would have brought you into this world” kid: “🤬 you mom”

[@ambercrystal4697]

How do you bring a child into the world less than 3 years after leaving another woman's 4 month old baby to die of exposure? How did she not think of that EVERY TIME she looked at her daughter? This is FUCKED.

[@kellyfariasantiago3170]

I know. She's completely heartless.

[@donnaeturner]

Revenge is BS.

[@thegoodbadmusic]

Mm moon moo M ooo ok o mmmm ooo polo ooo mmmm oo Ok mom okk ok ookmo

[@thegoodbadmusic]

@@kellyfariasantiago3170 ko ooo ooo oo kimono oo om OK om mmmm mo mmmm OK Mo

[@thegoodbadmusic]

Mlo l M kimono moo mom ooo mmmm lo Kokomo oo mmmm mommm

[@juliemitchell5688]

I wouldn't put it past her to become a very abusive mother. PURE EVIL.

[@i.p.956]

What kind a monster would kill a baby? It's one thing to kill a grown up but you need to be a whole different kind of monster to kill a baby!

[@DianeHosler-hh1mv]

Mrs. I Lewer they were not sure if the baby was suffocated or died from being outside

[@NathanChisholm041]

No I'm pretty sure it bad to take any life regardless of age!

[@sharcrum]

What's worse, is who can leave a baby alive with its dead mother to die of exposure and starvation and dehydration.

[@unappreciatedtrap_queen7787]

Thanks for the upload!! What a despicable person to take the lives of 2 innocent people. Now she has to live with the fact her daughter will grow up knowing she coldly took an infants life for selfish reasons. It’s the ripple effect of incidents like these that breaks my heart.

[@Tsumami__]

I wish people would realize you don’t have to be a giant muscle man to intervene when you see something like a woman and her baby being dragged into the woods. Many times all it takes is you to yell at the person to let them know you see them. When you stand and do nothing but watch they know they can get away with their bullshit.

[@stephaniejames4940]

I agee 100% We don't have to stand there and do absolutely nothing.

[@estherkeeling777]

Amen to both of you. I have stopped many fights and people being beat up from afar by yelling or saying hey stop that.and often after I started hollering other people got courage and stood up also.somettimes

[@PointNemo9]

Tbf she was a very masculine woman (as seen in her prison footage at the very end).

[@Retroscoop]

Maybe the witness was mute and 84 ?

[@rosemarie5489]

A couple of years ago, my grandmother yelled to a big man punching a woman, in the middle of the street. I was so afraid that he would turn to beat both me and my grandmother (I might have been around 12 at that time), but he run instead. In some cases, the thought that someone else is seeing you can stop a crime.

[@GlamRockCowboy]

James Keith Kallstrom, aka Jim Kallstrom, long-time host of "The FBI Files," passed away at his home in Fairfiled, Connecticut on July 5, 2021, from heart failure due to blood cancer. He was 78 years old. RIP.

[@bernadettebarry3099]

Wonderful policeman rest in heaven thank you

[@siegridthomas9674]

I liked his voice

[@packrat1210]

He had the perfect voice for narrating shows like these. He also did A haunting. I love his narrations.

[@deborahpolk1854]

rip

[@legitbeans9078]

He didn't narrate the show he just did the intro. He was cool though. Noo Yawk Awfice 😄

[@techkoda]

Watching these videos should make us respect the law enforcement people and their efforts to bring criminals to justice. How dare someone kill a baby?

[@lisainger6751]

millions of them are killed every year

[@mariadasilva863]

Tech how dare someone kill full ✋ stop

[@sludge8506]

The Superior Courts 22 page opinion cites 24 factual errors, many of them extremely serious.

[@cfreeman106]

TECH DOSA Your respect for the law enforcement people is hopelessly misplaced. The only method in bringing this case to a conclusion was by corrupt measures. You ought to read up on this case before throwing away your respect so willingly.

[@ivodeguzman2565]

Heartless and at the end she got her own baby. Gush it's so sad sad sad😥😥😥😥

[@LLthereistome2024]

So sad she was so happy a new baby and a good husband. That woman that killed her was crazy, pray her daughter had a better life, than what this murderer could ever give her. The fact she was ok about killing Alex, and his mom, makes me shudder. 😢😢

[@broeheemed32]

"...good husband". Right. Until she got mad at him....... then he would be an "abusive monster". It's always the same.

[@suzannegriffiths4795]

@@broeheemed32 relationships are difficult. It's extremely sad when people lie to get their own way. It sounds like your ex-wife lied. I apologise on her behalf. I know what it is like living with someone who was manipulative, selfish and uncaring. Who made you feel devalued and scorned. For me it was a man, for you a woman. God helped me forgive. Do you know Jesus? He has set me free of the hardness of unforgiveness and bad memories. I hope you choose not to stay in the prison of revolving thoughts. You don't need to.

[@kendrawaddams3174]

​@@suzannegriffiths4795I'm sorry that this person was too rude to reply to your kind and sympathetic message. All the best.

[@suzannegriffiths4795]

@@kendrawaddams3174 thanks.Thats lovely of you! Bless you.

[@lindadiaz3268]

What an evil and selfish woman, who now sits in prison, she had no right to take two innocent lives,

[@michillene]

An evil woman who still cries that she's innocent...she is where she belongs

[@cfreeman106]

@@michillene You ought to be certain of your facts and ALL the details of this case before you can set yourself up as judge. Self-appointed judges, who feel free to make crass comments on cases such as this, are usually the ones who seem to whole-heartedly believe, without question, documentaries which excel in exaggeration and deception.... and this show certainly revels in that. Read the book, Convenient Suspect, or watch STARZ-The Wrong Man, which features this case.

[@ferosemariehass9633]

The woman who killed the mother and son has no right to live

[@cfreeman106]

@@ferosemariehass9633 Your comment would be fair if it were true they had the real culprit. If however you're of the opinion that Rorrer is the perpetrator, then you're as lame-brained as most of these people who think they're qualified to judge with their asinine comments, but without knowing all the facts.

[@julieleach6668]

@@cfreeman106 what are you talking about? The evidence is there in front of you..and every prisoner in prison is innocent aren't they ?you can choose to accept the evidence or not but dump all over people because you feel all superior to all of us...

[@MontuOnuphrius]

Husband: my wife and kid are missing (Husband shows cops broken door frame and padlock) Cops: nah this isn't related

[@colinluckens9591]

Yeah that got me too😠😠😠

[@christinerobinson890]

Jacob Highstrom that was disturbing. Did they check for fingerprints?

[@Crissy_tina]

If the cops had started searching then... maybe the baby would have been saved. 🙄

[@stevenross5795]

The Husband did it , a no brainer

[@cfreeman106]

Try another scenario... Husband: My wife and kid are missing. Cop: Are you sure they're missing? Or did you take them out to some lonely field (which you know the ex-girlfriend used to go horse-riding, so you can point to her as the suspect) and murder your wife and leave your baby to the elements? Are you sure it wasn't you who broke the lock, unscrewed the wooden panel (except for one screw), go to the other end of the basement in total darkness and cut the phone line (which would have been almost impossible for a stranger to find)?

[@johnwayne3085]

I'm from Hokendaqua. The town next to Catasaqua. I remember when this happened. It was a big deal. Everyone was looking for that poor mother and her baby.

[@VincentWilliams007]

I see that the house may be up for sale. Nice house by the way. Patricia wanted Joanne's life so bad. Perfect example of, "if I can't have it no one can."

[@diamondgirl6716]

So, do you know what happened to the other mother and baby? I remember seeing a similar case aired on TV many years ago. The only difference was that mother was sexually assaulted in the back of the store by some ugly devil worshipping teenager and he somehow killed both of them and moved them to some field. The mother was posed in a sexual way and the daughter was left somewhere else not too far away. Isn't that bizarre? The two mothers had the same hair style.

[@mishellecua]

@@diamondgirl6716 yea so sick! but it was actually a little boy who survived, he was left in a field next to his dead mothers body, the poor boy received severe sun burns and was saved on time by a farmer

[@cfreeman106]

@@VincentWilliams007 You're a perfect example of a person who'd wish he had a brain.... or even part of a brain. You're a pathetically sad creature.

[@johnnabuzby6103]

@@mishellecua The particular case you brought up took place in Greenville, North Carolina and was featured in the Medical Detectives [Forensic Files] episode "Kidnapping". The other case of the mother and baby killed in Pennsylvania that occurred near Joanne and Alexander's murders is, I believe, also featured in the Forensic Files episode entitled "Shopping Spree". This was also a Forensic Files episode, "A Woman Scorned".

[@jackiedavenport1028]

I've heard about this story many times. Terribly Tragic!! I cannot understand how her Mother in Law could just ignore the fact that Joann just didn't show up. If my Daughter in Law called and said she was on her way and then didn't show up alarm bells would have gone off. I at least would have tried to call her(maybe she did), go over to the house see what was going on, retrace the route she would have taken or at least call her Son. To just say oh well is just beyond!!

[@eventhere2788]

The story says he MIL had attempted to call her several times

[@pauladouglas9891]

But the Mil never called the husband to say she never arrived. This killing was so senseless, did she expect to get back with her ex? He wouldn't even sleep with her again when he was still single.

[@ashleyburch2290]

Maybe her car was in the shop. Also her husband and son were at the client's home. That could be why she wasn't able to drive by her house until her husband got back.

[@borninabarn2232]

So heartbreaking to watch true crime shows in which a child/infant is murdered.Nothing more diabolical than that.

[@korab.23]

I skip most of them but this one was sneaky. I always hope the kids are somehow ok. 💔 heartbreaking every single time.

[@julieleach6668]

This story when I first watched it traumatised me..how do you walk away from a woman you just murdered but just leave the baby to die what kind is a monster does that💔its just wicked and evil..

[@mickey1271]

Patricia's hatred ran deep for the new wife and her baby that Patricia wanted with Andy.

[@karenk3458]

This poor guy lost his first child and wife how detrimental I’m sure that was ugh I hope he was able to recover.

[@TiffWaffles]

And what is even more tragic is that I think he realized that the killer of his wife and child got to have her own children and would have lived a normal life had Forensic DNA not advanced enough to get her. And what is more is that this murder wouldn't have happened had the killer not taken her rage out on her ex partner's new partner and their child. I hope she's still in prison, honestly.

[@kezz-iofficial4058]

I think he’s involved somehow 🤔

[@cfreeman106]

Karen Vann What this video above fails to show (with numerous other omissions which would show this case to be a wrongful conviction) is that the husband (for whom you are so keen to show your support) actually failed TWO polygraph tests. I have followed this case for many years and have no doubt the wrong person has been imprisoned. I've read the book and watched and listened to several documentaries which come out in support of her innocence.

[@karenk3458]

@@cfreeman106 thanks, for enlightening me I will look into it.

[@cfreeman106]

@@karenk3458 On another KZbin site which features this case, one of the readers responded to one of my comments saying he/she was curious to know why I was interested in this case and asked me for a lay out of whatever details which showed this case to be a wrongful conviction. I prepared a fairly lengthy composition and asked if he/she would like me to post it, but because it was fairly lengthy I could post in two parts if preferred. I received no answer from this person, but the following day I found myself barred from that site.... so I never got to post my report after all that effort! If you like I can post that same composition to you on this site, for your benefit and anyone else who is interested. Let me know please. Just to reassure you, I have followed this case for more than 20 years and am very confident of all I have to say. Apart from all the research I have done on this case, I have even made contact with the sister-in-law of the VICTIM, who is firmly of the opinion Rorrer is innocent and has been involved in a long and selfless effort campaigning for her release. This lady has police documents and transcripts relating to her trial and is in constant contact with Rorrer. If you like, I can search out some sites, which present this case honestly, and give you the links. It goes without saying, you can make up your own mind about this case and do your own research into it, if you feel you do not want to read what I have to offer.

[@katherinelynnhalvorson6109]

There's a lot of people out there that can't accept rejection. Whether it is a man or a woman who broke it off with you. There's a reason why. Move forward in your life. They don't want you in their lives anymore.

[@JDMaya]

KATHERINE YOU ARE WONDERFUL. BEAUTIFUL ADVICE. IT IS VERY GOOD TO OPEN PEOPLE'S MIND. WORDS HAVE POWER. UTTERING WORDS THAT OPEN DOORS OR HELP OTHERS FREES AND MAKE CHANGES IN PEOPLE'S LIVES.

[@KamalasNotLikeUs]

@@JDMaya 🙄 Yeah, I’m sure that some nut who would contemplate an act like this is suddenly changed by a post from a simpleton on KZbin.

[@missdolittle]

Did u go “wait what?” too when u heard “the officers didn’t believe the broken door had anything to do with the disappearance....”?

[@renelugo5701]

Poor investigation from the all police department and that should be death penalty.

[@chrislewis5069]

Gotta love cops that don't think forced entry is related to missing people. Nice work law enforcement, top notch

[@chrislewis5069]

@ky store no kidding, I get what your saying. Seemed real dismissive of police to do what they did

[@EileenHall-j9f]

Police often have tunnel vision, they decide immediately on who they consider to be the culprit. Heaven only knows how many innocent people are in prison. If you’re poor or black, there must be so many innocent souls rotting in jails.

[@shalimccarley4843]

Poor husband . He lost his wife and child. That’s terrible and sad also devastating. The husband is all alone without his wife and child. Very sad😔

[@Allen-L-Canada]

he should know his ex was such a evil woman, and ask her wife to stay away from home for a week. this could have prevented the strategy 3 days after the call.

[@angelaglanville9377]

FYI. The first conviction using DNA as evidence was in the mid 1980’s in Leicestershire in the UK. Look up Colin Pitchfork, it will tell you all you want to know about Dr Alec Jeffries who was the pioneer at that time.

[@cindyscott9002]

But this was mitochondrial DNA.Think that might be the difference.

[@Nana-Opa]

And he did say 1st in USA

[@antoinettewitt2098]

​@@Nana-Opai believe u are right. I was drawn to Opa cause my in-laws were German & my kids called them opa & oma.

[@ummhussein1]

What a ruthless murderer . I am always haunted by the idea of finding the dead baby on his mom's chest ! So tragic ..

[@miniliebenberg9644]

I hate the thought that the baby froze to death. The poor thing probably cried and cried. Ugh, people can be so evil

[@rosedumassi4429]

Rest in peace for Joann and Alex. So sad !!!!

[@tonyarceneaux286]

@@miniliebenberg9644 Do you have a problem that it was a woman who did the crime or you think the man or men in the victim's life did it?

[@paulredinger420]

Premeditated 1st degree murder, she should of been executed for this crime. What she deserved, especially taking a young child's life. No excuse, no remorse. The statement the female detective got in her room while she was changing says it all. She thought she would get away with it, that was her remorse. Is she was caught. I have NO sympathy for her. She had no right to take those life's. she wasn't defending herself, she wanted something she couldn't have. It was pure selfish greed. I hope she enjoys cooking for eternity.

[@teresalinton5898]

I totally agree with - death penalty

[@karynsztabaluk1479]

I literally just wrote the exact same comment and it got deleted. I said she was a poor excuse of a human being and killing a mother and child over nothing but her own jealousy is unforgivable and she should've received the death penalty for her crimes. Why my comment got deleted I don't know

[@cfreeman106]

Paul Redinger Seems to me you know very little about this case -- except what you've seen in this diabolically biased video above -- and then feel that gives you license to vent your spleen villifying Rorrer. You really should acquaint yourself with ALL the details of this case before you set yourself up as an all-knowing judge (who in reality knows very little). And by the way, to feel remorse, one has to be guilty of the crime. Even though a court of law has found her guilty, there's plenty of information and evidence to see hers as a wrongful conviction... if you take the trouble to look. You're a complete and utter moron.

[@mattthewanderer5029]

@@karynsztabaluk1479 some channels censor the comments themselves, I had a comment removed twice from Bloomburg news that I still can't understand why it made them remove it.

[@tonyarceneaux286]

If it was the husband did it Death penality time.

[@abdulhakimosman]

people in the comments taking about all the ads............and me i'm like what ads?

[@sandyc6569]

same

[@lordofwar3434]

The uploader must get paid olso

[@ChivalrousPotato]

Man only got 2 8 second ads for the whole video. Scandinavia FTW

[@lynnann5643]

I skip to the end then press the replay button. The adds disappear. Its weird though because it only works on my android. I tried it on my iPhone and it doesn't work.

[@rickyelvis3215]

Just watched in australia ... no adds.

[@philipcarthy2977]

Absolutely horrific, rest in peace

[@ChivalrousPotato]

No matter how many times I watch one of these videos liking it always feels weird. Sure I enjoy the content but liking something that discusses things like this still feels weird.

[@sandyc6569]

yeah i hear ya.

[@Patricia-un6kv]

I agree with your sentiment and, when I first started using KZbin, I found it difficult to decide on videos like this one. Now, I give the thumbs up, rather than "liking", to any videos with good content rather than the actual story. Stay well...;-)

[@deannakinsman6790]

I've thought exactly the same thing myself!! I really enjoy murder mysteries.

[@didarden]

Thank God! That means we're normal.

[@sandyc6569]

@@didarden 👍

[@betsyhunter2493]

She should never get out ever. They're pumush her when they get ahold of her.

[@dorisjoy9666]

Mind who you call your gf. Know how temperament she can be cause it’s very important. It’s a shame that some people can’t deal with divorce, rejection and separation. Nothing lasts forever therefore divorce, rejection and separation will always be part of life and no one deserves to die because of that.

[@asill.6668]

Exactly!

[@sueloh5035]

@@asill.6668 How would anyone know beforehand?

[@Retroscoop]

Desperate people often have tunnel vision and tunnel feelings. They don't see all the facts in their real context. Couple that with a very egotistical personality, and you get an explosive cocktail. Of course you are right, but well, some people really can't cope with it, and that one issue starts taking over their life completely, until the "problem" is removed. The one track mind-syndrome. Everything else becomes blurred.

[@sueloh5035]

@intriguing Woman Really sonetimes emotion can cloud the mind.

[@sueloh5035]

@intriguing Woman sometimes the way a person behaves before starting a relationship and when after becoming familiarised may not be the same.

[@kellyshomemadekitchen]

Amazing how karma visited the murderer and took her away from her baby as she had done to baby Alex’s father and family

[@brendashenda4249]

I find it odd that the mother in law didn't wonder why she hadn't shown up. Didn't do anything. Didn't drive over? What?

[@shelbygarcia2038]

Maybe she didn't know how to drive? Assumed she got caught up with something important. Assumed maybe her son got home early and her daughter-in-law + son went out together instead and forgot to notify her. Her husband probably calmed her down? Who knows, everyone thinks differently.

[@meramar2673]

She called many times. Why would she think she was kidnapped or something happened? Do people call the police when someone does not show up?

[@survivingsicklecell1732]

Joan must have been terrified but I wouldn't give up so easily she would have to kill me right at the car park

[@susannaude8514]

And now this horrible woman would never see her child grow up...

[@kathrynmcelroy5658]

THE SADDEST STORY THAT PEOPLE ARE THIS EVIL TO KILL A MOM AND HER BABY.

[@nobodycares1423]

Ya

[@motherofthreeb6337]

Every time I see this episode, I wonder why the mother-in-law didn't notify her son/authorities when she didn't show up at her house for the shopping trip. 🤔

[@luciabenitez5358]

Yes and she didn't went to her son's house immediately to check on JoAnn and her grandson , she waited until Andy's call at night !

[@MelEveritt]

My Mil wouldn't as then it wouldn't be all about her😅

[@animerlon]

You'd think she would check with her son out of curiosity at least, even if she wasn't that concerned. I would want to know why i was missing a visit with my grandchild even if i didn't care about the mother. Makes me wonder about their relationship.

[@animerlon]

@@MelEveritt 😆 Can't let that happen!

[@monicastricker3582]

I would have been over at that house immediately.

[@420slots]

Pisses me off when a infant is involve . Hell to that killer !

[@osmanmohamed3914]

who else used to watch this and the new detective on discovery channel back in 2000 and even before ?

[@christopherhorn1161]

If you see something suspicious, pls call the police.

[@user_angelmum]

People reported they saw a woman with a baby looking frightened. .with a man aggressively pushing a woman ..and not one person stepped in or reported it to the police? Who killed the young Mother and baby in the clothes store ?

[@ProudSalafi]

There are a load of cowardly selfish people in this world.

[@SoullessGinger1313]

The woman from the clothing store was raped and murdered by Caleb Fairley. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caleb_Fairley

[@helenaterschegget8791]

I find it unimaginable that no one called when they saw that

[@JDMaya]

@@SoullessGinger1313 IT IS VERY NICE OF YOU TO SHARE THE LINK.

[@nathandevine437]

It was definitely looked into this was at the railwood tracks and could find anyone that met this description.

[@sqrd3536]

A heartless ex-girlfriend who killed another woman and her baby, for what? Especially when she then got married and had a baby herself. It's always the innocent people brought into relationships with very loose ends that get hurt. May the victims rest in perfect peace❤. Thanks to all those who played an important role in getting this solved.

[@poppyfield1619]

Sadly, jealousy drives many people to do terrible things. The case of Stephanie Lazarus is another example.

[@samueljackwilliams4647]

i’ve watched so many of these i think i can hear jim kallstroms voice in my head

[@robertklotz9319]

Résonance is common in...uh...empty spaces. But you're talking about the familiarity like that of a friend. Happens to me too.

[@festivelady826]

@Samuel Jack Williams - I have a crush on him - LOL. I love that Massachusetts accent! But I'm from Texas and my accent is a LOT stronger than his.

[@petej8556]

@@festivelady826. If you look like a plate of food I'm sure he would probably have a crush on you too!

[@festivelady826]

@@petej8556 - LOL! Nah, I probably don't have enough meat on my bones!

[@quickchris10comcast]

"Evidence's scay-us."

[@opheliamyall2554]

I am on vacation and binging on these😂 since l cannot travel at the moment. Thanks for the upload ❤️

[@terryford8280]

ENJOY UR VACATION!!😘😘

[@opheliamyall2554]

@@terryford8280 l will. Thanks. 😄

[@gamersrepublic6920]

Same here 😕

[@opheliamyall2554]

@@gamersrepublic6920 😂😂😂. Some days l feel like that emoji. Thankfully, l can take early morning walks and go to the beach. Outside of work, my creativity is taking a beating too. Just not in the mood to do anything 😕

[@buttercupj6208]

Have a wonderful and safe vacation 🙂

[@brotheramartey777]

How could people be so depraved and wicked, both men, women and children??

[@CamilleAdkins-n4q]

Great work by investigators. God bless them all.. RIP Joanne and Alex. My condolences and prayers to the family.

[@kamrul828]

That case always bothered me first saw it 2003 on discovery channel. Hope mother and daughter are in a good place.

[@mssugahill]

The look on the officers face when she overheard her talking to her daughter....Her eyes bugged out. She was like "BUSTED!"

[@IwasBlueb4]

Errrm.... I think you mean the actress ?

[@petuniadavis4147]

Yeah u realise this is all reenactment right

[@cfreeman106]

@@petuniadavis4147 And that is why this show above is a disgrace. They've spared nothing to show her as being the guilty person when in fact there is a shed-load of evidence to the contrary.

[@Theconfirmationtruth]

I spend 75% of my day watching these shows on KZbin

[@leonafirestone1781]

Thought I was the only one!!

[@mayanksangam9205]

Great work by investigators. God bless them all.

[@sludge8506]

The Superior Courts 22 page opinion cites 24 factual errors, many of them extremely serious.

[@cfreeman106]

@@sludge8506 I note your comment but would like to know if there is a link to which your comment refers?

[@sludge8506]

@@cfreeman106 I will look it up and post the link in a way that gets by the KZbin censors.

[@cfreeman106]

@@sludge8506 I did read a comment from someone in the Free Patricia Rorrer site mentioning a litany of errors relating to this case. The person who posted the comments (he seemed extremely familiar with this case) subsequently deleted all his input. I suspect his comment was what you are referring to. I would nevertheless be interested in that link.... Didn't know censors had a say/hand in these comments!

[@sludge8506]

@@cfreeman106 No, I was referring to the actual document. Yes, KZbin does commonly eliminate comments. 🤪🤪

[@karenmorente7589]

The fear confusion in this poor mom is horrific. Fight there. No relocation. I cant believe the witness who didnt help.

[@missiecombs7280]

The first mitochondrial dna in the U.S. Amazing science!! Sad, heartbreaking case. What an evil human.

[@didarden]

When pat called and husband knew pat "had a temper", husband should have took over the phone call & not depend on joanne to handle his problem. . Should have reported harressment to ploice. Might have not helped. RIP mom & baby.

[@melexanie5403]

And she still didn't get the guy! What a horrible person.

[@cynthiajohn6261]

Well done to the FBI for not giving up. They were persistent. God bless them.

[@christopheronyia11]

Ah dang I remember this one, this was on forensic files ☹️

[@abramshk2947]

thanks for uploading

[@ellabar3842]

how evil, even the baby. so grateful for the DNA, genius invention.

[@IwasBlueb4]

DNA is not an invention !!

[@Hank760]

Evy Courtney you know good and well she meant DNA TESTING not DNA itself. 🙄

[@cfreeman106]

@ellabar3842 It's not an invention, it's a scientific breakthrough.

[@netrakulkarni5253]

Why do people kill and make their own life a mess! I never really understood!

[@katemaloney4296]

Revenge doesn't need to make sense, it only has to make a point.

[@cfreeman106]

@@katemaloney4296 Whatever the point you're trying to make is, it's no more than a guess. Because you know very little about this case and that doesn't really qualify you to judge. You have watched this biased documentary above and think that's enough for you to make your stupid comment. Learn ALL the facts about this case if you feel you want to make a sensible comment.

[@elizabethkeenan7063]

In the United States I think the first case happened in the UK 1986. Joseph wambaugh wrote a book about it called The Blooding.

[@reneadial]

Did he say at the end that she MADE her suffocate her own son Alex? Or that he died from exposure to the cold, winter months? This video made my heart sink. As I have 2 small children of my own. I just can’t understand some people. And never will.🥺 R.I.P

[@hosseinahmadivarji1956]

Life gave a gift to the killer (a baby )and punished her for rest of her life not to be part of her/his life.

[@peggypeggy4137]

Thank God for that, at least.

[@KaraLynnJack]

Amen for that!!

[@JDMaya]

IT WILL REMIND HER OF THE EVIL SHE COMMITTED. GOD'S PUNISHMENT ON HER FOR DESTROYING LITTLE ALEX LIFE.

[@peggypeggy4137]

@@JDMaya Sick, demented, woman. Evil but not insane. You wonder what was going through her mind?!! Did she think she was going to get the boyfriend back? The worst part was killing the baby in such a cruel way. He was abandoned, exposed to freezing temperatures and starved to death!! What did the evil woman think she would accomplish??!!

[@JDMaya]

@@peggypeggy4137 WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD COMMIT SUCH CRIMES.? SHE HAD TO BE DRUNK, ON DRUGS, OR BOTH, PLUS DEMON POSSESSED.

[@blacklivesmatter4918]

I'm almost hoping that monster at least put baby Alex out of his misery that same day because to imagine him laying there on his mother's chest for days and nights all alone is heartbreaking I just don't understand why this had to happen no man in this world is worth killing over I just don't get it smh! 🙉😭

[@rkrmtest]

☹☹☹☹

[@blacktinkerbell2324]

I remember this story it is still as sick today as it was back then.

[@sweetassugar2076]

Great show! thank you for the videos much appreciated 😃

[@sharmakeabees4745]

I just can't get tired of watching this fbi files

[@tallulahjack913]

Me too

[@theresasthoj7884]

Same here. Lol

[@docoluv9]

Dame over here

[@samsngdevice5103]

To skip the ads, drag the progress bar to the end and then hit the replay button. Your welcome.

[@audbertodiazdiaz6066]

waooo grasias trabajo thanks otrabes

[@60tdog]

Thanks

[@vutrashin]

Thx

[@hollywoodsaint57]

I was waiting for a comment with the "your welcome" on it 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@reneelovejoy5302]

I tried that it didn’t work out for me 🙃

[@tonyarceneaux286]

My favorite FBI Files episode.

[@tomasluqueful]

The Authorities took too long to catch the assassin due to the mistaken information supplied by the FBI agent assigned to this case saying that the murderer was a man instead of a woman, and she almost got away, but for a hair, she was caught. Unbelievable!

[@healgoth]

They gave a little good insight with the hypothesis that the killer would be comfortable being seen in town and that the killer might know their routines and schedules

[@coup3272]

B D

[@angelinarodriguez4062]

Better late than never, but is amazing how everything works

[@thomasnorman951]

When confronted at her home outside near her car she Joanne should have refused to drive anywhere forcing the suspect to shoot her at her home instead of in the middle of nowhere

[@redpillfreedom6692]

Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.

[@lornagoulbourne3219]

Was she hoping to get back togather with her ex after she killed his wife and son!!... so heartless!!

[@hamanamanama2263]

Seems the mother in law could have acted sooner. Such a sad story 💔

[@wanderingstar5673]

That is what strikes me as odd. She calls mother-in-law and says she’s on her way. Never shows and mother-in-law doesn’t call house or go and check on mother and baby. Doesn’t alert husband and son that her daughter-in-law with a baby is missing and it’s winter. Why was she not alarmed that possibly had car trouble , etc . Came over immediately after son calls though. Somethings not right.

[@azizadevries4501]

Who kills a defenseless baby. The person must be sick

[@JDMaya]

U.S. PLANNED PARENTHOOD, BARACK OBAMA,...AND DEMOCRATS OKAY WITH IT. IN RED CHINA AND N.KOREA - ONE CHILD RULE. EXTRA CHILDREN DESTROYED.

[@visassess8607]

Well it must be pretty easy since they can't fight back

[@superwoman6413]

15:50 "she had also a solid alibi"... Are you kidding me? The alibi felt down the moment they looked at it. Did they not even asked a couple of questions at that point?

[@patwhite7970]

RIP Joanne and Alex. My condolences and prayers to the family

[@kimkatz2444]

Most of the cases ive seen here are in Forensic Files Series...

[@NxDoyle]

The thumbnail says this was the first ever DNA case. It's too vague a claim to know what exactly is meant, but however you read it, it's not true. The first case using DNA as the basis for a successful prosecution was in Britain in 1987, the case against Colin Pitchfork.

[@watchthesky.]

There is a book about this called The Blooding.

[@melaniebrown768]

You are correct! I remember that. Joseph Wambaugh wrote a book about it.

[@watchthesky.]

@@melaniebrown768 this happened where I was born, in Leicester,grateful to live in Australia now.

[@watchthesky.]

@VixenTheFox south west.

[@phaxil4207]

I think it means that this was the first DNA case in the US

[@owalawilson6503]

Sometimes the little details can solve difficult cases. What if the boyfriend had remembered nothing? She might have escaped but the investigators were too determined. One way or another, she might have been caught still

[@jordancassidy03]

I’m truly addicted to these videos.

[@gionee7035]

This show amazing👏🏻👏🏻 and this story , eposide never forget👌

[@CyberWorld999]

A few people claim profiling has to be a dream job. Got to be a teenager to think that. These investigators have to review gory crime scenes of children, men and women, the elderly, animals etc. They don't show us that on these episodes. All we see is the end result of their dedication. We don't see how they can't sleep or how they cry because of the images they've had to view in order to get lunatics off the street. My hats off to anyone who signs up for any part of law enforcement!!

[@angieshelton4066]

You are so right. What trauma they themselves must endure.

[@kysweetheart1964]

can someone explain why the mother in law did not respond much sooner..... she called to say she is ready and heading her way, for their shopping date..... Not trying to blame the mother in law, just don't understand. I feel she should have called Andy to say JoAnn was a no show, even though she called to say she was on her way; not even murder what about accident

[@shockdartbique8991]

we have no idea what goes on in their heads. hindsight is always 2020, and saying "she should have done xyz" is NEVER okay. I know you don't intend to blame, but that is considered very rude. would you look her in the eyes and tell her what she should have done? would you truly look at that poor woman and go "well you SHOULD have done this."

[@paulredinger420]

Yes I would look her in the eye and ask why didn't you call and ask where she was? She said she was on her way. (let's say a half hour drive) if she wasn't there within a 2 hours, I would of called out of worry. Just to make sure everything was alright. I do that know with my wife (I'm 57) If she says she'll be home at 7 or is usually at home at 7 after work, and say 7:30 rolls around I'm concerned and call to make sure she's ok. No I'm not controlling either!! I do the same for my wife. Tell her where and when I'll be home so she doesn't worry. If I'm going to be later I'll call and let her know. It's about being safe.

[@sciencehistoryandentertain734]

This was before cell phones so all she could do is call the house phone...All the mother-in-law knew is she might have changed plans...How many times are you going to call the house before giving up? Are you going to call the police because someone did not show up for a shopping trip?

[@shockdartbique8991]

Paul Redinger i can see where you’re coming from but i need you to understand the modern culture: *questioning people’s actions during traumatic events is never okay.* never do it, not if you know her, not if you don’t. if you do not have the authority to ask, then do not.

[@kysweetheart1964]

@@sciencehistoryandentertain734 Yes, at least call the husband; she called to tell her she was on her way....

[@peter-e2q]

Interesting but… when adding background music to tell us how to feel, because we’re too stupid to know, can you not have it so loud it’s hard to hear the voiceover?!

[@raccoon874]

hey hey USA, all TV shows must tell you when to laugh, cry, feel good, bad or hungry

[@bryanvelasquez161]

The Narrator sooths my ear

[@eunicestone838]

I've seen women do horrible things and let other people abuse their children just to hold onto a damn man. Both sick!

[@ВячеславКолесниченко-х6м]

Really good job made by forensic detectives .

[@sludge8506]

The Superior Courts 22 page opinion cites 24 factual errors, many of them extremely serious.

[@susiepoo51]

I wouldn’t have gotten in the car with my baby! Neighbors were close enough to hear my screams!

[@NotIfWhen]

I’m sure if she could have gotten away she would have. Maybe the killer had the baby in her arms with a gun to its head. I hate when people say I would have done this or wouldn’t have done that. You will do anything when your newborn baby is on the line. And I’m sure she had no idea how evil this lady was.

[@JP-xe7lg]

Sue I agree. It's almost guaranteed if you get into a car by gun force you will be taken somewhere secluded and murdered. I would fight and take my chances to be shot there and then where at least you'd have chance of surviving....never let them take you else where to do it! It's such a tragic case and hard to get your head around. Especially murdering a baby😡

[@peggypeggy4137]

@@JP-xe7lg Such a sad story. I was thinking the same thing but I can only imagine she was thinking that she could reason with this irrational jealous woman once she got into the car? You are right though-she would have stood a much better chance if she would have just screamed and run away, considering the tragic outcome. Of course now there are theories that the killer was really innocent--I don't buy it!

[@JP-xe7lg]

@@peggypeggy4137 truly a tragic story!

[@istvansipos9940]

exactly. do NOT go to a 2nd location! fight with all your anger and skills and force and be LOUD! Yes, you might die. And at that the 2nd location, you die for sure.

[@samkelokey4656]

Who else is watching in bed ?

[@tinkervance1525]

I am 🤣 Everything where I live is on lock down because of the virus. So I figure time to catch up on my true crime shows.

[@cracker417]

Me

[@Rawvitality94]

👋🏾

[@l.g.2811]

+1

[@hugoserfontein3950]

Yes👌🏼

[@GambilityGaming]

Watching this so I can become a FBI soon

[@fhfg8090]

You are funny lol

[@DaisyMae439]

If you're serious then you met her know that it's been taken over by kurupt satanic New world order people!

[@shakerahalstead5752]

Same

[@cubismo85]

maybe one day you also can become the former head of the FBI:s new yaaark offace