They wouldn't tell us what's inside the new Race Face Era carbon cranks

[@FanatikBikeCo]

Update from the warranty department - Zero ERA cranks warrantied so far through Fanatik. - Dan P.

[@teddydark3601]

And now compare to aluminium cranks and than we can really see if it is worth it !

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Modern hollowtech cranks will fail too but there are still tons of people that aren't aware of how terrible they are

[@joules2936]

@@veganpotterthevegan hollotech cranks are not terrible. Yes there have been failures, but how many thousands of cranks have Shimano made, with the vast majority being fine.

[@joules2936]

Some Carbon cranks will be crap, some good. Same applies with Alu cranks. Material doesn’t matter, it’s all in the design and manufacturing.

[@The_Real_JN]

@Joules very true, plus I feel like there could be more discrepancies in manufacturing carbon cranks I.e. voids or internal delamination

[@veganpotterthevegan]

@Joules the mass majority are barely ridden. And the failures are at a huge number. Definitely thousands.

[@RichardCarruthers-o1r]

I fixed the loose insert problem: I've been using RF Next R cranks for a few years and had the loose insert problem twice over about 3k miles. Before I binned them in despair I had a go at re-fixing them into position with loctite. It worked a treat and I saved £350 replacement cost! I used loctite 290 (has good wicking properties but caution, its toxic according to the label) with a separate activator Loctite SF 7240. You need a fresh 2mm drill bit. Drill 2 holes through the carbon crank at 90' towards the centre of each side of the loose insert. 1 hole at 6 o'clock and 1 at 12 o'clock, drill until you see some aluminium swaf come out, blow out the hole with a track pump or similar as best as you can, warm up the insert a little with a hair drier to about 25 to 30Ć so the 290 flows well. Bring one drill holes up to 12 o'clock, put on protective gloves and drip the 290 into the drill hole. The 290 is very liquid and should wick into the to hole and find its way out the other drill hole. Give at a minute or 2 to run through, wipe off the excess and then use the activator. The inset should firm up within an hour or 2 and you can ride it after about 24hrs if all has gone well. I've been riding around on blue and easy red trails with my fixed cranks for over 1000 miles. I'm 84kg. I used this fix on the pedal insert and the crank arm axle insert. I check the cranks for any signs of cracking reglarly where I drilled but all is fine. Happy days.

[@hugabuga96]

Cool vid! Next time break them by adding weights to the tip of the bar so you know the difference in failure loads between cranks. Mark the bar and always add them in the same location so the loads are comparable. Keep them coming!

[@Themanydeaths]

i was thinking the same thing. some thing like that project farm guy sets up with messurement tools and break it in a way that riders would break them. hell he said it himself not a perfect test. dont just break expensive shit do it with purpose. did not finish vid.

[@machyne82]

You should have lifted the breaker bar. That would have simulated the downward pressure on the spinal like actually riding it

[@JoshuaParks]

Yeah I don’t understand how this inward/outward pressure shows anything interesting. The problem comes from the crank hitting something in the ground in the direction of rotation. Here he’s torquing it orthogonally to the way these pedals are likely strongest. Since carbon fiber is directional it would likely be much, much harder to defeat them in the direction of their rotation

[@asbaDoce]

Carbon is anisotropic so bending the crank both ways or in the direction opposite to the designed for load [as you did in most of the tests, ignoring you pushed the softer middle of the crank against the vise] is not only inconclusive but doesn't produce useful information. I have seen FEA for cranks and there's a massive dynamic twisting component on the piece. What you need is a setup that controls load and freq and get actual data.

[@xm3ntal620]

Right on. Are you an engineer?

[@kaltonian]

totally agree that's one of the reasons i say what a waste...even a load teat would reveal more

[@asbaDoce]

@@xm3ntal620 It depends... Why?

[@xm3ntal620]

@@asbaDoce you sound like you know what you're talking about. I work in aviation alongside many engineers.

[@FanatikBikeCo]

Indeed. I primarily wanted to get the threaded pedal inserts out and see what the differences were, the breaker bar and all the rest was just a more entertaining way to get them out than just cutting them open. In the future if we find ourselves doing stress tests on things I'll try and be more thorough about how we do so. Cheers, Dan P.

[@yumyumhungry]

I had a NEXT SL crank delaminate on me during the Tour Divide. It's more of a slow wear over thousands of miles rather than one impact that does it. Hopefully this Era crank fixes that...I wanted to go with shorter cranks anyways so will give them a go. This video was super helpful to let me know what they actually changed.

[@BLVBak]

The ratio between the force moment and the shear forces is very different in this test compared to ridding on a bike. The force moment is much less dominant when riding the bike compared to the test.

[@dash0173]

@@cristianrdavid its obvious he's not a professional. it's obvious they're doing this with aboslutely zero experience and they NEVER claimed to have the most experience but it's still a cool way to somewhat put into perspective just how strong the cranks are. i've always known they're strong but i never once had an actual reference in my mind for how strong they were. you must be really unhappy with your life if you're finding a way to be so upset with these dudes

[@ShoppingBag]

I got my first Next-R in 2017 and had the drive-side crank pedal insert break free (spin freely) in 2018. RaceFace did me a solid with a warranty replacement crankset, but in 2019 that second Next-R crankset fractured torsionally on the drive-side crank in a fashion very similar to how the Next-R in this video cracked and broke. RaceFace has a one replacement warranty policy, however, so I just went back to aluminum Atlas cranks (like I've had on all my bikes and never broken.)

[@Jacob99174]

One of the most informative vids you guys have made Also, by far the most adverts inserted in any of your vids as well. Wow!

[@filipkryspin8726]

The reason for insert failure on those cranks would be galvanic corrosion. As with any corrosion that develops over time especially when riding in wet conditions. That beeing said the new inserts have much more surfrace area to contact the carbon. Therefore they will last much much longer. Great content btw. !

[@FanatikBikeCo]

Thanks for the insight! Glad you enjoyed the vid. Cheers, Dan at Fanatik

[@axels.7166]

Very interesting and also incredible test! Thank you for showing that. I would also love to see how a aluminium crank would be react. For example a Shimano XT…

[@sepg5084]

I don't see them measure how much force it actually took to make the crank break, so i don't see how they'll compare the durability to aluminium cranks.

[@femto505]

"incredible test!"?!?! We should get Project Farm for testing these items. These results are all subjective with no data or numbers to support these clams.

[@Cr3ePiO]

@@femto505 pointing at marketing wank on packaging: "...strongest, stiffest and most durable carbon cranks ever created..." *We're gonna test this!*

[@JesusRescuesUs3-16]

Great review, as you mentioned unrealistic to actually riding failure. It was worth seeing you point on the insert failure. I had to have my NextR warranted for a circular crack on the drive side arm, from what I’m told is the injector point.

[@BigBeezyBtown]

Thanks for breaking all these for us. The only thing is I wish there was a gauge used so we could see how many pounds of force it took to take each one to their breaking points. I'd love to switch to these but I'm 280+lbs and produce a lot of torque.

[@nathanbunney705]

Shouldn’t the crank be put in the vice and the pedal spindle be leaved against to really simulate the stress. It just seams your stressing it the wrong way at the start.

[@AZRob.]

Like you, I would not even consider carbon cranks. After seeing this video, they have now risen to the top of my list. Gonna get a set soon! Great job guys! Cheers from Arizona!

[@believe8263]

I love product testing like this. Glad to see these cranks have upgraded their design. I always stayed away from carbon cranks since smashing into a rock would snap the crank at the thinnest point next to the spindle and leave you stranded.

[@marcelomeier9366]

One of the most amazing videos about bike gear test I've watched. Keep it up guys!

[@thealzp]

Nice Job ! Why don't you measure applied force ?

[@photobooksandrecords]

This does not replicate the forces on a bike. Pointless but entertaining.

[@mathiasreisch2860]

Probably the best marketing video for the new Race Face ERA out there! Enjoyed seeing the evolution!

[@JamesLG4]

Good experiment, thanks for putting this out there. I also didn’t have a warm and fuzzy feeling about carbon cranks but after seeing this I would try those RF ERA cranks on a future build.

[@cccpkingu]

This is an awful experiment, done poorly.

[@seanlandsley1259]

Funny I have had 3 of them that always come loose at the axle insert and not at the pedal inserts. Could you cut that part open and see the differences. Thanks

[@MikeesTexas]

Video of the year!!! Please break more stuff!!!! Measure the forces too like Project Farm😉

[@horrovac]

You don't cut like that with a hand saw. You should hold the grip with your dominant hand and the front end with the other hand. That way you can control the down pressure as well, while using the strength of both your arms. The workpiece should be fixed at elbow-height (which is the case here), so in the centre point of the sawing movement your upper arms are oriented vertically, and your lower arms are oriented horizontally. Twist your upper body towards the saw as necessary to keep your upper arms parallel, that way you can guide the saw with the highest precision. If the saw blade is dull, or if you are cutting through a long piece you can rock the saw slightly to give it more "bite" and clear the chips better, but it should be deliberate movement, not due to the wrong posture. The same principle goes for other metalworking tools like files etc.

[@senderhillside7233]

Surprisingly interesting to watch! Please keep doing these kind of videos.

[@jmartin8238]

Very much appreciated testing for those of us who cant afford to lol! Its been years since Ive done destructive testing (Mostly in college) but I have a few ideas for next time if possible. If you can add some measure of force exerted it would be great. Perhaps on the cheap by adding a torque wrench? Would be great to see what pressure they individually fail. Also making the connections to the pedal and crank the mounting locations for your test would make it a more apples to apples test. Having a few cranks of each type to test hardness, fatigue and this lateral strength would be awesome as well!

[@FanatikBikeCo]

Good ideas! People seem to be pretty into these, so we'll have to up the actual testing if we do more videos like this. My main intent was to see how the new inserts differed from the old, and I figured ripping them out would be pretty entertaining, but yea, a lot of people are curious about the actual forces involved. Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching! Dan at Fanatik

[@lynjhonosia1190]

finally, some guy thats willing to risk it all so we the common consumer wont be wastingour precious money!! Good job!!

[@TeamCykelhold]

pretty cool! It would have been even cooler if you had measured the force required to break it. I also wish they made them with 24mm spindles so you don't have these bearings in the frame with so tiny balls that wear out much faster.

[@colinwestbrook6811]

I’d love to see a cut or two through the axle inserts to see what the difference there is. I’ve had SixC and Next R failure at that upper insert. Similar approach as the pedal insert across all lines?

[@redball4093]

Excellent introduction to these crank designs. It was interesting to see the cut aways.

[@michaelrowave]

I sold some used octalink carbon cranks someone gave me recently and kind of regretted it but this is making me feel better about my alloy cranks. There are easier and cheaper ways to reduce weight in the kitchen and I really don't need another BB tool standard that seems to be obsolete. I have one carbon spacer under my stem. As an unintentional destroyer of all things I ride best to err on the side of caution.

[@AlexSanchezMorales]

I think the fact you are testing is OK, but how do your measure the force you apply to the 1 meter lever? Does cranks are supposed/build to overcome that huge amount of side force?

[@theforestdude2587]

That was a very interesting video! One thing you also could take into consideration ist the the width of the crank, because of the way the forces are transmited in the crank itself you'll have quiet a bit of bending moment there, so the wider the crank is, the more bending it can take. That's at least what it looked like on dissection of the newest crank. I guess that could be why the walls are over all thiner.

[@hisurf4688]

Awesome, thank you for taking the time to educate us on carbon cranks🤙🏽

[@pedtrog6443]

Setting fire to it was a good suggestion to get the insert out intact.

[@grantmcgee1013]

Cool video abs nice slomo shots. It would be nice if you guys had some sort of force transducer or even torque wrench to see what kind of force you are applying. Merry holidays.

[@andrewpm2]

Should've had something to measure the amount of force until failure. Not exactly scientific but good FYI for viewers. Still good shit as usual thanks

[@ryansteiger6960]

Thanks for this chill and entertaining video 👍

[@swecreations]

I do feel like the testing made here was very unscientific and makes it very hard to calculate the yield strength of these products. But from what I can see that long bar gave you around a 10-25x mechanical advantage, so these cranks seems to have held up to around 500-1000kg of force (each, you will most likely have two of these), so these will likely be very overbuilt for the requirements of normal conditions, far beyond what these will experience in the real world.

[@janschapdick4315]

how not to subscribe to someone who saws raceface cranks in half😂😂😂, i love it.

[@FanatikBikeCo]

Hahaha, thanks! Cheers, Dan at Fanatik

[@akjdhfkqwrhetkjanfvkkkresae]

I think the next R actually hit the vise, breaking where it touched the vise.

[@endursa]

nice destructive comparison :) Also are those @MelonSunglasses Trail "safety" glasses :D ?

[@john_john_john]

11:05 not me, but a friend of mine used to work on a company that sold office supplies (and eventually branched to a lot of unrelated retail). A very, very common practise on that company, and I would bet on any industry, would be to buy stuff from their competitors just to take apart, destroy, cut in half etc, and see what they're doing. So that corporate mumbo jumbo doesn't protect Raceface's business secrets from their competitors, since they'll absolutely do what you're doing on this video anyway.

[@wzpu3283]

Thank you for sharing. I think you've given a long definition of 'reverse engineering' which is common practice, like you said.

[@nicolashuffman4312]

It seems some of the long term damage that happens to carbon parts is when aluminum inserts corrode due to the galvanic potential between carbon and aluminum. This results at 'white rust' at the interface of the 2 materials. This has very low mechanical properties, and so the insert gets loose. You can prevent it by electrically isolating them, often by adding a layer of fiberglass or a special coating on the aluminum. Using stainless steel or titanium inserts also avoids the problem. I would be really interested to see how these cranks hold up in corrosion testing.

[@_rainbowbiker_]

Very interesting! no one would test this ! nice video!

[@chrisprysok7634]

Nice. Hope 50k views pays for the parts you had to break to get answers. I have next sl on an enduro bike ( availability at time) I'm totally happy they are tough and light.

[@joshuamaffly9649]

Another way to get your pedal inserts to separate from the carbon Next cranks is to ride them for more than 6 months. Works every time?

[@123dwd]

ya know what lasts a long time, my M785's from 2012 (awesome video though, thanks)

[@devincook3278]

Hook a fish scale to the end of the pipe (pry bar in this case) to measure the different forces. Cool video! Poor crank arms 😭

[@aaroncorrell8728]

Good video, but you exerted lateral forces. Not a fair/inclusive outcome tbh as a catastrophic case would exert vertically oriented forces.

[@adamcvanwinkle]

Dude this was genuinely fascinating

[@TomCollins-c4h]

I miss this content, the industry couldn't handle this transparency.

[@dustinbjohnson]

You guys should do this video with aluminum cranks. Be curious how much force it takes to bend alloy vs cracking carbon.

[@mixalisstathis274]

In this direction bent you use the vice as a pivot for your leverage - that's not the way to check until when the material will withstand the lateral load!

[@JankyEric]

Hell yeah it would have been interesting to see SRAMs insert

[@PowerrangerHC]

I would like to how alloy cranks and maybe titanium cranks compete against the new era cranks

[@blackmetalgoat9060]

Would love to see these done to a Shimano Saint crank

[@phorest]

A great video! My Next R's have the floating nds spindle connection insert, not the pedal insert. Hoping they get warranteed...

[@jorgesantos8509]

my 2016 yt capra came with the sixc cranks and both sides failled. the pedals inserts become loosed from the carbon...

[@manitolas]

Impressive strength of carbon here🤔🤟

[@bullseye0112]

Dan can you do the same with Aluminum cranks to show the difference? Good video. Aluminum is far less brittle I assume. If they made a little bit of give where the crank extended on when maximum pressure is applied that might be a cutting edge thing haha

[@tristanhanley8741]

you might be surprised how brittle forged aluminum can be, i dont know for sure about the type of carbon used or the resin used but in this sort of test where there is no impact the alloy might snap even more abruptly. I would also like to see how allow compares for this and the loads involved, some strain gauges would have been pretty cool also aluminum doesnt have a fatigue limit(that is.. no matter how low the load is, failure will eventually occur) while carbon generally has a fatigue limit more like how steel does. Composite design and the material properties are completely different from metals in general(anisotropic vs isotropic)

[@ericmosher6969]

I'm just here for the dog

[@userthor7386]

Hmmm... Why not put the stress test in the direction of which the crank is designed to absorb it? It must be designe to Flex on the length of the crankarm and not across it...

[@wzpu3283]

I agree. This is kind of like testing various ropes under compression forces instead of tension. Which is, of course, useless.

[@MudmanDH]

Nice video, it's sad when a bike frame or parts has this fame of been frágil and these cranck arms has this fame, but they can rebuild it and do it stronger.

[@dand3975]

Those carbon cranks would be great on road bikes, but for off road might be best to stick with aluminum. Can't imagine ever bending or breaking a aluminum Shimano crank arm.

[@alenjovanovic-verbanac8053]

05:45 its a bad test, crank snaps because is forced against the vice.... you should put a pipe in the vice so it is taller than the vice, and then insert the bolt of the pedal in that pipe and then test..

[@alenjovanovic-verbanac8053]

It will also snap but in a different place

[@gpa1978]

best test ever

[@michalwiktorow2188]

Wrong. It seems that you did two things wrong, you press like the pedal would bo inside the arm, not outside and worst - crank arm should NOT touch vice clamp - just pressure form pedal axle should be applied on the crank arm. You are breaking them against clamp dude! :)

[@santosgarcia801]

It is a good experiment, but if there is not a value like torque to really being able to compare, the experiment is meaningless because became subjective. If you go with the aluminum cranks, it would be better if you use a torque wrench to measure the force to break the crank. Thanks for sharing though.

[@jensleerssen9603]

and apply the torque in direction of 50 / 50 loading, please.

[@owenlattin4185]

I don't think this video was meant to be incredibly scientific

[@FATBIKEMIKE]

All my failures have been around the spindle insert not the pedal!!! Not to mention I don’t think anybody’s ever broken one that way it’s repetitive stress that just makes them come loose seems to be the real problem!!!

[@martinschon3098]

In my opinion this test doesn't give us a lot of information. You just apply a random bending moment to the crank. Which I can imagine isn't the main/only force/moment it will see during riding. It would be more interesting to figure out the load case during which the crank would fail and set up a teststand for applying this load more accurately. The video is mostly about destroying inserts.

[@portox777]

This is interresting but i think that the force was not applied correctly, if you did this on a trail you wouldnt be worried about the cranks for sure

[@David..]

You should do this with Shimano Ultegra. Would be far easier as you’d just have to ride the cranks to see how they fail.

[@flowbike4487]

Please do this test with sram eagle cranks

[@jackpittens796]

What about the joint to the axle boss in the crank arms. They have failed there too. Have they improved that location in the crank arms?

[@hectorhector737]

handle bars please 25.4 , 31.8 and 35 what breaks easily:)

[@smooothyyy]

Just grab yourself an alloy set of raceface cranks and be happy. they´re amazing

[@FanatikBikeCo]

They are!

[@pkmobius]

Great experiment! I would definitely like to see a video like this about other components.

[@cccpkingu]

This tells you nothing. Even the first one bends the pedal off before you crack the insert.

[@VerthNeel]

It it really useful a light crank in a downhill bike?

[@paullehrbmx]

what about the spindle insert differences?

[@CM9999999999]

Given that the nextR snapped in the middle then the inserts were strong enough

[@jasongarcia7544]

Pointless exercise if theres no control or any actual torque readings to measure, just an extended bar isn’t really a true measurement device?! Why ft lbs or Nm do they actual break at?

[@kiliBrtoiP]

and without measured force "required" to destroy these cranks is pointlessssssssss. a loose insert issue can be caused by galvanic corrosion

[@ambientblue-eyedmonkey8849]

Next Carbon forks!!! Please

[@clonecommanderwoolfe5329]

How long is the lever in the thumbnail?

[@slavkingsxr]

Excuse me, but don't you think that the direction of application of the load is not quite right? After all, the carbon is placed in accordance with the direction of the main pressure. You don't press the pedal like you do with this lever.

[@merlinzipp]

😆 I was just riding along...🤪

[@SPCRacing1]

“Just Riding Along” bike shop in Bradford, PA. 👍😀

[@hannes6114]

Would have been cool to measure the force and compare to aluminum and try to mimic the way cranks get force put into them

[@sunday_mx]

No measurements, strength force applied? Only a guy breaking things

[@matthiasschulze393]

nope, i'll never touch those things...but great testing

[@SnootchieBootchies27]

Things I would (or do) get carbon: Handlebars Rims Ski poles That is all.

[@BuffiestFluff]

I wonder how they'd hold up to sudden sharp impacts instead of slow pulls. But I'm only 9 mins in so maybe it's addressed!

[@derrickanderson2783]

"Hey roomies, you're all getting a new set of carbon cranks. Don't thank me; the ones we just broke were yours"... lol kinda something like that??

[@rvsec6085]

suggestion for the procedure you are doing, add units. use equipment with measurements for you to really identify the difference. Thank me later. of you can send me some Bike stuffs though I prefer road bike.

[@mtbs_edits3232]

I know I am asking the wrong question but what bike is this

[@FanatikBikeCo]

The bike that Dan is riding at the beginning of the video was his old Ibis Mojo HD3. Thats some footage from a number of years ago.

[@21armyn]

5dev is where its at..

[@JamesNoBrakes]

SRAM uses bigger inserts their CF cranks and a foam core in some. I've beat the crap out of these in downhill, enduro and plenty of other races an they are tough. Race Face continually has the bonding issue trying to have pedal inserts bonded into CF, from when they first started offering the Next SL. I've broken many of the RF cranks due to this. The problem isn't CF cranks, it's Race Face. It always was.

[@rh32793us]

Ha! Why’d you spend all that time and energy breaking RaceFace cranks!? All you had to do was go ride them! Lol.

[@julianw5692]

So in conclusion, to make a stronger carbon fiber crank, you need to use metal inside. 😂