Red Wedding 2.0 | Q&A Livestream

[@jclaburn]

It was in the dungeons of Riverrun that I figured out R+L=J when Jaime was taunting Caitlin that he was more faithful to Cersei than Ned was to Caitlin. That conversation made me realize that there was no way Ned cheated on Caitlin, so Jon Snow needed to be Lyanna’s baby by Rhaegar who Ned found at the Tower of Joy. In my view, the Red Wedding 2.0 has to call back to Jaime being introduced to Brienne in the dungeons there and Jaime’s crucial conversation with Cat during which we learn a lot about both of them. The fact that Jamie and Brienne’s entire arc together was initiated by Cat and started in the dungeons of Riverrun shows that all three of their storylines have always been leading back to Riverrun and the horror that will be the Red Wedding 2.0. -A Theory of Ice & Fire questions and answer space on quora

[@X525Crossfire]

My Red Wedding 2.0 scenario: Lord Walder orders all the Freys to attend, so he can make a show of the power of House Frey by having them all together in the castle of their former liege lord, which they now own, marrying another one of theirs to a Lannister. Life is good. Then, the 92yo stoat finally keels over from natural causes during the wedding, probably during the feast and maybe after the bedding. At this point, the Freys devolve into the triple Spider-Man meme and start accusing each other of poisoning him. Tempers flare, old grudges rise to the surface, and finally steel is drawn as the Freys start having at each other in the hall. Meanwhile, the Brotherhood without Banners have had Jaime help them infiltrate the castle under the premise of assassinating Lord Walder (or something along those lines). Jaime is skeptical they'll stop at Walder and is worried they'll kill him and his kinsmen for being Lannisters, and still go ahead and kill Brienne for having "colluded" with the Lannisters. He's planning to help them infiltrate Riverrun so that he can turn on them, raise the alarm, and have the Brotherhood wiped out in one fell swoop. But the inside of the castle is eerily quiet. They arrive at the main hall only to find everyone inside either dead or dying. The Brotherhood are confused and just asking each other "WTF!?" I admit this is just a first draft, but I feel like it satisfies the reckoning coming for the Freys while also featuring a subversion of expectations, staying more or less true to the characters as established by GRRM, and providing a bit of dark humor.

[@gokbay3057]

I like this, keep cooking.

[@arkiv7851]

Daven leaps from the high table to fight back-to-back with Jaime, defending the Lannister attendants and the bride. Emmon is up on the rafters with a crossbow providing firing support. Genna is either being protected by the Daven-Jaime combo or has since retreated to safety or has her personal dagger out to fend off any possible assailant.

[@fantasyhaven1]

As if Emmon won't be rolling up his sleeves and beating up the brotherhood himself

[@arkiv7851]

@ It would be a great “subversion of expectation” if one or more of the Brotherhood attackers begin to laugh at Emmon trying to fight; only to then be stabbed through an unprotected part and subsequently killed. It would be the entire Frey theme retold in a single scene. Underestimated and dismissed only to take the unexpected moment to deal a mortal blow. Emmon is Emmon but steel is steel.

[@Mink-yu8nu]

Can't believe I missed this! BAH!!!! Loved the teal socks BTW. Don't listen to the haters!!!!

[@Mink-yu8nu]

Every Lannister Explained when?!!!!

[@jclaburn]

The Red Wedding 2.0 will be a retelling of the climax of ‘Robin Hood’ (1937) only with all the blood that was left out of the movie. George R.R. Martin is going to reenact scenes from the movie almost blow for blow just not sanitized. Think about it: The Brotherhood Without Banners are his fantasy version of the Merry Men. I don’t have time to mention them all here, but the five ASOIAF novels and Dunk & Egg are filled with allusions to Ivanhoe the novel by Sir Walter Scott and the two classic Hollywood movies Robin Hood and Ivanhoe that are adaptions of it. But I can mention that the character of Brienne is modeled on Ivanhoe who meets Robin of Loxley during the novel and who is rescued from imprisonment in a castle when they attack disguised as trees. This shows that Brienne’s story was always intended from her introduction to intersect eventually with the Brotherhood under the leadership of Lady Stoneheart. (Another example is that the entire Tourney at Ashford with the five champions and mystery knight in black which is the ‘Hedge Knight’ is modeled on the Tournament at Ashby with five champions and a mystery knight in black in the movie and novel Ivanhoe. Yet another example is that Gared who Ned executes for deserting the Night’s Watch we are told was condemned to his life sentence in the Watch for poaching a deer to feed his family. Killing a deer to defy the aristocracy is what Will Scarlet does in the opening scene of Robin Hood. Robin takes personality responsibility, cares the deer on his back to the palace, thows the deer memorably down on a table, and condemns Prince John as a bad leader who has deserted the people for outlawing the hunting of deer to feed them.) So we have a very elaborate retelling of the Ivanhoe story with Brienne in his place and the Band of Merry Men with Mother Merciless in place of Robin Hood. These stories have to end with the villainous lords like Prince John and the Sheriff of Nottingham being overthrown in a castle like the finale of Robin Hood-only it’s blood bath that includes the killing of civilians and women and children at a wedding. My point is that even if we didn’t already have a Red Wedding, the logic of the stories of the Brotherhood Without Banners, Brienne, and Lady Stoneheart as dark retellings of the Robin Hood and Ivanhoe stories means there has to be a bloodbath for the Freys and Lannisters at Riverrun or the Twins!!! The revolution and bloodbath has to happen narratively; it’s because of the original Red Wedding that it will also happen at a wedding. 100% guaranteed. No chance it doesn’t happen (unless Winds is never published). -A Theory of Ice & Fire question and answer space on quora

[@Canario_27]

I read Ivanhoe recently and I subscribe every single word.

[@andreasguillot2057]

Something I don't think you discussed: do you see Red Wedding 2.0 as a Winds chapter, or as in ADOS? You've convinced me. I've read the last two books and the sample chapters since watching it and it sounds... Plausible, although unlikely, as you yourself said. George, please don't kill Olyvar :( (Quick edit: Chekov's Nymeria *must* pay off at some point. I love the idea of her somehow joining Catelyn for this but it feels unlikely)

[@fantasyhaven1]

I think Winds

[@gokbay3057]

Nymeria could be what kills Stoneheart for good in the end.

[@gandhimohandaszkaramcsand2634]

Black wedding would sound really cool

[@ryanwilliams9751]

38:45 Kermit the Frey was not was I expected tonight😂

[@MissScarletTanager]

I think, around 44:30 , you answered your own question about how the BWB get into Riverrun without realizing. Emmond didn't turn out the Tully servants when they took the castle, just the garrison. GRRM constantly has the "little guys" of the story doing the "big stuff". Ilyn Payne technically killed Ned, not Joffrey. Big powerful Drogo dies of an infected cut. Catelyn was killed by a literally random barely-named Frey. Etc. etc. The Tully servants work with the BWB to orchestrate the Red Wedding 2.0 EDIT I have to disagree with your preference for a chaotic RW2. I think the cold, methodical round up and execution sort of suits LSH more. She seems like the type now who would want to look those who killed her son in the face when she kills them. I sort of think it will be both; it will appear chaos at first like the OG RW, but by the end a bunch of specific people will be taken captive, and then we'd have LSH doing a stone cold hanging party.

[@MissScarletTanager]

I think the wolf pack will attack the Jeyne/Edmure train on the way to Casterly Rock, and Jaime will be coerced or tricked into participating in a Red Wedding 2.0 Makes the most sense to me, at least xD

[@Welleher]

There's also the possibility that Jaime and Brienne have nothing to do with the Wedding. Jaime and Brienne escape just before the Wedding, where they are supposed to be hanged along with the others. They attempt to prevent the wedding, but are too late to stop it. The Brotherhood and Stoneheart will be unable to take the Castle outright, so they settle for barring the Great Hall and slaughtering the guests. Jaime, Brienne, Pod, and Hyle escape and burst into the hall along with the Lannister guards after breaking down the door. They witness the Massacre at its height, with Jaime able to witness Genna or Devon's death. The rescuers and guards manage to save a couple of folks (enough for a proper Frey Civil War), but Stoneheart and the notables of the Brotherhood are cornered, holding perhaps Devon or Genna hostage. After a short standoff, Jaime trades places with the hostage, but the hostage is killed anyways, and as Stoneheart goes to slit Jaime's throat, Brienne cuts her down, putting her out of her misery and saving her love. The Brothers in the hall are then eliminated, and Jaime and Brienne are left in Riverrun, with a hall full of dead Freys, Lannisters, and Brotherhood members, the castle garrison hollowed out, and no one to turn to for aid. A good portion of the Frey nobles died, and when Walder hears of it, he has a heart attack and dies. Black Walder takes one end the Twins, Frey Civil War takes place, Littlefinger arrives, accompanied by Sansa and Sweetrobin Thats my own headcanon, at least.

[@conradcash1472]

I have an idea that Jaime will watch the Red Wedding 2.0 and not participate in the slaughter, but be forced to finish the job by killing Genna Lannister.

[@DeCode343]

Well this one of the videos made of and about ASOIF. Sorry, I lost the train of thought 3 times in the first few minutes.. And again the next 10.. Then probably once more!? Whats going even on? But pls keep going, you're generally doing great stuff regarding the story. Are the Frey's done though?

[@fantasyhaven1]

One more Frey video coming out this week 👀

[@VRILL-MASTER369.]

[ I think the only Frey that will actually survive is The Frey that is in Lys that is number 39 in succession sorry I forgot the name and I think Bran will invite him to take over the crossing in the last half of a dream of spring ]

[@nont18411]

It’s a wish fulfillment theory but I think it will never happen. The Freys are cowards and traitors but not stupid. They won’t open an opportunity for Catelyn to take revenge on them using the same trick they once used on her.

[@someperson1090]

I believe the Blackfish will kill Lady Stone Heart and save Jamie and Brienne