Farming Is Cheating, Shouts Kramnik!!!

[@adarshupadhyay6948]

Kramnik complaining about Hikaru farming in chess is crazy cuz now Hikaru is farming him for content lol

[@chesscomsupport8689]

What are the ethical considerations here?

[@William-Morey-Baker]

​@@chesscomsupport8689 none whatsoever... its free real estate 😂

[@NoelAKABigNolo]

very interesting indeed

[@lord.d1_]

The only thing I know abt Vladimir Kramnik was where he planted something in Magnus Carlsen's water bottle

[@fredwong9111]

Hikaru is cheating at the content creation. It's official. So says Kramnik.

[@olivialambert4124]

You can tell Kramnik is a big fan of Levy's channel. Never resign no matter how bad your position looks. He has really taken that to heart.

[@coosoorlog]

Or Rosens? It seems he's going for stalemate at this point.

[@ballsacagewea420]

Hikaru went from a chess content creator to a kramnik content creator

[@rrrrtre4820]

Wait until Kramnik finds out he made Hikaru richer

[@agooglyminotaur169]

Kramnik the real one getting farmed

[@dpend]

Hikaru went from professional chess player to professional streamer to professional farmer 👨‍🌾

[@cftpafan]

More accurately, Kramnik became Hikaru’s content creator

[@anturanggatantra2137]

when you can farm, you gotta farm😂😂.... Hikaru simply farming content from Kramnik 😂😂😂

[@MrMagnaniman]

We need to start a petition to get Kramnik's kids to protect his legacy by disconnecting his internet.

[@godfreyofbouillon966]

Great idea. I started one unfortunately you can't post a link on KZbin comments. How can I share it?

[@speed999-uj5kr]

Lol

[@jerome8670]

😂🤣😂

[@stefanpopescu5686]

Lol

[@RealYRM]

Does he have kids? Is he married? Can you imagine the data and statistical arguments Kramnik would present to his wife when she cuts him off in the bedroom? I just looked it up, he did marry a French journalist and they have two kids. Maybe she's doing award winning journalistic research on Hikaru now. He could keep an eye out in his streaming room for plants that are moving or blinking.

[@susbedo9258]

Kramnik: "I get harassed on the Internet" Fabi: "Bruh, it's the Internet 😅"

[@guitarcovers5437]

If farming 2900’s is cheating whats it called when you get farmed by 1200’s? Asking for a friend

[@cftpafan]

Child abuse

[@QuiescentPilot]

I’m not an expert but I think it’s called a skill issue?

[@kekke2000]

Don't feel bad, I lost to Martin-BOT in 6 moves. 💀

[@dalfifran7572]

NOOB! lmao!

[@occultsymbols]

@@kekke2000respect

[@FrameRate_24]

hey, kramnik clearly consulted his 10 favorite mathemeticians. and if this gets anymore complicated, hes gunna have to take his socks off and ask ten more.

[@etin97]

JESUS😂

[@diggitus]

Damn that's funny!

[@TrulydaMoosey]

Holy hell the creativity in that statement deserves to be bounded in books next to Plato!

[@kabuky1256]

Dang, Fabiano is actually a really smart guy.

[@adityadeshmukh6426]

Did you think he is dumb before watching that interview? 😂

[@kabuky1256]

@@adityadeshmukh6426 I can be impressed by someone's intelligence without thinking that they were dumb It's just impressive how well he can explain his points. Even my stupid self can understand 😂That takes smarts

[@DoogD-i6q]

Indeed, I remember liking very much Following the last 2 world championship with Fabiano Caruana in the comments . He is a good Speaker , very chill and he knows Very well chess so he knows what he is talking about .

[@bipolarminddroppings]

@@adityadeshmukh6426 the best chess player I know thinks the Earth if flat. He is an IM. Being good at chess doesn't mean you are smart. Kramnik being the case and point.

[@adityadeshmukh6426]

@@bipolarminddroppings relax bro 🤣 i was just kidding. I was making a stupid and funny comment. 😅 No need to break it down to aan argument and proving me wrong. I know what the original comment intended to be about.

[@TheRealMissingLink]

Kramnik overstimated his position, and now his pawns are over-extended.

[@nicolamoletto1926]

Kraminik is now just trying to make a point no matter what

[@donsurlylyte]

and he is making a point, just not the one he thinks

[@karna6634]

its the point of no return

[@night_inhale]

yea but it's like.. his only point is just like "listen to me im kramnik" and it's not a valid point

[@MrMagnaniman]

What point? That he's going senile? Message received.

[@jgray2718]

And that's how you can tell he never had any intention of making a real argument. Someone who is suspicious in good faith will bring attention to the suspicious activity. If all the actual experts say "No, that's totally normal, there's nothing to see here" someone making a good-faith argument will apologize or demand to see their work _(which they showed in this case)._ Kramnik just ignored them and continued making unhinged accusations and legal threats. He's just lashing out. You see this all the time with people who aren't used to providing proof or being questioned - their arguments become part of their identity and refuting their points hurts them emotionally and they just cling on to anything at hand, no matter how insufficient.

[@sailor5853]

As a daycare employee I saw a grown man enter and promptly start punching all the kids. I immediately used what Kramnik taught me and immediately questioned the man on how did his opponents underperformed that fight.

[@jaekn]

Jokes falls flat due to poor command of English language and saying "immediately" twice.

[@paulgoogol2652]

He was cheating.

[@alexhelper8604]

😭😭😭

[@michaelguth4007]

@@jaekn Jokes (plural) and falls (to fall, 3rd person singular, present tense). That's rather funny, considering the context.

[@joshuahietala5174]

@@jaekn It's not a mistake to do that or is it like grammatically incorrect.

[@st3ppenwolf]

Fabiano is so careful in the use of his words to mean what he intends them to mean and nothing more.. he would have made an excellent scientist/engineer...

[@mabel3989]

Fabiano is clearly a very intelligent guy, I respect him a lot. One of the cases where the stereotype chess player = smart is actually true.

[@BitTheShed]

​@mabel3989 my read as well - clearly an intelligent guy, and he grew up in the era of the internet, he's preemptively avoiding nonsense by being clear

[@evanmorrison3232]

No way is fabiano as smart as your average scientist or engineer. As an engineer I went to school with those guys, a lot of us are dumber than you would believe.

[@sailor5853]

​@@evanmorrison3232 There is an unspoken curse some pagan god threw in humanity: There will be dumb people in every single class, in every single job and every single place in the whole world. You will never escape them, that's the curse.

[@LuisManuelLealDias]

Fabi was the one that previously championed Kramnik's "endeavour" towards finding statistical signals about cheaters, when it was plainly obvious he would end up making terrible mistakes like this one. Fabi is a well spoken, eloquent, intelligent speaker about these things (let alone one of my favorite chess players ever), but he failed here big time. He showed complete lack of awareness of the gap between amateurs playing with numbers and real mathematics. That's no engineering mindset to me!

[@ultrainstinctshaggy669]

Watching Kramnik go crazy is like watching an accident happen. Horrifying, yet fascinating

[@berryesseen]

I think Kramnik is kidnapped. We have no live footage of the accusations. Only blogs with a terrible and unprofessional language.

[@irfanleorezaharoen6083]

​@@berryesseeni think there is a video of him also, not only blogs

[@aviralarpan7350]

Fun

[@IanMcGarrett]

Won't be the first GM who lost his mind. Fischer... Kasparov...

[@jstandards766]

​@@irfanleorezaharoen6083im just gonna pretend this didnt happen. I like this kidnapping arc

[@knutcatania1679]

If I play my friend(s) and there's a rating disparity, we're still allowed to play. It's called chess, and since the dawn of chess beginnings, this type of "farming" hasn't been thought of as cheating until Kramnik "invented" mathematics.

[@irfanleorezaharoen6083]

And think that only his mathematics is correct 😂

[@ernestyunardi7454]

Kramnik math: 1+1=11

[@RealYRM]

Kramnik invented mathematics on his computer, with the help of various spreadsheets and calculators.

[@irfanleorezaharoen6083]

@@RealYRM damn, give kramnik his nobel prize already!

[@mrworld1645]

Kramnik is just turning into Fischer at this point

[@CoopMauKona]

He wishes. Kramnik is irrelevant except for this controversy.

[@mrworld1645]

@@CoopMauKona yeah... more like becoming an irrelevent insane old man.

[@caerdwyn7467]

Kramnik was never that good.

[@kimborampage]

Fischer actually had good arguments about chess.

[@YungLilBoii]

At first i was like "lol", but at thisbpoint i kinda feel sad. He desperately needs help.

[@johnrichardson7629]

Oh, so streaks WERE bad because the were supposedly impossible without cheating and now they are bad because they are too easy if you play weaker opponents? Kramnik is a joke.

[@jeffwells641]

That's the weird thing to me. Hikaru's online rating is something close to 3200, and his long streaks were against 2400s to 2900s, not the handful of other 3100-3200s that are out there. A 300-700 point Elo advantage is no joke. Kramnik accusing Hikaru just makes no sense.

[@Wargasm54]

I’m not a big fan of Fabi, but what Kramnik said towards Fabi’s very measured response is really really tragic. Kramnik is losing respect daily. Truly sad.

[@AyaanKhan-tb2ot]

Why don't you like fabi?

[@Wargasm54]

@@AyaanKhan-tb2ot I didn’t say I didn’t like him. Just not a big fan of his playing style. He’s obviously a fantastic player. Just not my favorite. A tad too positional and reactionary for my tastes. I favor more tactical and attacking players. He’s a brilliant guy. Just too boring for what I like. I don’t dislike him or hate him. But I often don’t find myself rooting for him either. But my point is, Kramnik has lost the plot.

[@mirrorv7432]

Don't you remember how it started? Kramnik made a post were he is not accusing anyone in cheating on chessC. If he would want to accuse someone of cheating trust me he would do it with at least the name of cheater. This post was seen by maybe about 0.001% of chess community. And then Hikaru makes a video where he says that he was ACCUSED OF CHEATING OMG. This statement is totally bald and doesn't have any real facts supporting it. And now who is the victim in this situation? Hikaru who was ACCUSED and talks "respectfully" to the GM from "big bad Russia" who lost his sanity? I don't think so P. S. Looking forward for anyone's response. I what to hear your thoughts

[@fredwong9111]

@@mirrorv7432 Why then, did Kramnik create an online petition demanding explicitly that Hikaru Nakamura be investigated? It wasn't enough that Kramnik's thinly veiled attempts at not naming still made it clear who he was talking about but he created the online petition demanding an examination of all of his games while naming him directly.

[@anubiset20]

​​@@mirrorv7432You have to be willfully ignorant to think Kramnik's post wasn't about Hikaru. EVERYONE knows it was about Hikaru. KRAMNIK says it was about Hikaru. The only reasons why Kramnik isn't in court is because A) Hikaru suffered no damages B) Kramnik can hide behind his wording. Very technically he never said Hikaru was cheating, however he used the chess professional euphemism to insinuate it instead. Well, those reasons and the fact it doesn't seem like Hikaru is the type.

[@SciMajor1]

1:55 : I would amend the statement "If you play around with numbers you can prove anything" to be more accurate to say "You can play around with numbers and make it look like you're proving something to people who aren't well educated in mathematics.". The original statement makes it sound like statistics are worthless. They aren't. But, it's easy to fool people with statistics.

[@bigolboomerbelly4348]

Couldn't agree more. Try proving "anything" to a stats PhD and they're going to see it. Kramnik's argument is a perfect example. He thinks you can derive rigorous meaning from qualitative data like online elo.

[@simonsays6026]

Statistics is not definitive proof, is it? If there's no certainty to it doesn't it make it worthless in checking if there's cheating?

[@SciMajor1]

@@simonsays6026 Not really. It's a similar idea to the chances of winning a lottery. Just because the probability of winning a lottery 4 times is a row isn't precisely equal to zero is doesn't follow that the odds themselves are worthless. The issue comes in where statistics can be misleadingly portrayed. Using the lottery example again, one person might say "Don't buy a lottery ticket. You won't win because the odds of winning are around 1 in 300 million." while another person might say "Oh but about 1 out of every 6 drawings someone wins.". The second statement uses correct statistics but the statistics don't apply to the original question of one particular person winning so the statistic is useless in that case. It the case of chess, unsurprisingly, it's far more complex than with a lottery (Don't buy a ticket. You won't win.).

[@jazzabighits4473]

@@simonsays6026 I'd say statistics is one of the closest things to definitive proof we can get (through the methods of scientific induction).

[@jazzabighits4473]

@@SciMajor1 I agree, I hate it when people say the stats can mislead people to believe anything. Try to make stats say the world is 90% female or has 1 trillion people and anybody with common sense will know it's garbage.

[@Razanth.]

Honestly at this point the only evaluation that's necessary is a psychological evaluation of Kramnik since he's clearly lost his marbles

[@PlasmaGameplay986]

For someone who isn’t accusing Hikaru of cheating he really seems to want it to be true

[@michaelmoreno6431]

One point I have not heard is that for "the rest of us" being farmed by Hikaru would be a badge of honour! The chance of playing a legend is well worth whatever points we have. This is like getting an autograph!

[@ia3423]

You only lose like 1 elo playing him as well so it's a win-win

[@Fergus316]

This feels like elder abuse, and Kramnik is only 48 years old!

[@guybrodude]

48 but thinking like an 84 yo with dementia.

[@guilhermemagnolerguedesdea9483]

At last Hikaru said it. “Kramnik has lost his mind”. Yes, he has lost it. Very said, but true.

[@carlsanders7824]

Kramnik deserves a "Chess Content Creator of the Year Award". No one else is even close. Sorry, Hikaru.

[@edgarsmith9102]

Hikaru is a good sport here. Love how he takes it lightly and acknowledges the fairness in Fabiano's statements too eg re farming.

[@ErykKrzeminski]

This cheating drama actually motivated me to take Statistics class. Thanks to Kramnik

Same here lmao im goin over stanford lectures

[@kekke2000]

I see people saying Kramnik should be sued for defamation. I don't think that's the way to go because the person who's losing their reputation here is Kramnik himself. I agree with Hikaru that something will need to be done if this continues, either ban or just ignore everything he says.

[@acvgaming5601]

Yep but for now we keep on ringing this chamois lol

[@hoi-polloi1863]

Kramnik could sue *himself* for defamation: "I find it interesting, yes, *verrrry* interesting that Kramnik keeps making statements that portray Kramnik as a jackass..."

[@ultrafly100]

Hikaru dunks on Kramnik so thoroughly that he's got a career in the NBA lined up

[@rohan1864]

Fabi didn't even seem to want to take part in this, he's just having a podcast and sharing his thoughts. And Kramnik's still trying to drag him into the mud fight. Behavior of a butthurt child, heart filled with hatred.

[@abhinavshankar414]

Fabinao- Makes sure to not mention the names of the people Hikaru- Welp, might as well tell the names.

[@TheLyingLeft]

I'm glad C-Squared guys explain this obvious fact for old goats like Kramnik who don't get it. 😂

[@Musix4me-Clarinet]

I don't know if anyone else has pointed it out, but this setup you are using temporarily is actually very pleasant and professional in appearance. Personally, I would seek to continue this presentation after your other computer arrives.

[@louiss2595]

Yeah the orange is so ugly but iconic at this point

[@Musix4me-Clarinet]

@@louiss2595 I agree. It, along with the Pineapple, is his trademark. Still, I think many would accept and appreciate moving to something like this. Anybody who is in this stuff for the long term knows you can do almost anything like this, and people will "get used to it."

[@hidef9265]

@@Musix4me-Clarinetwhen pineapple? 🦧

[@Divided-House-75]

Talk about a lawsuit. You could probably sue him for defamation.

[@archeops.]

Hikaru is a lot richer after kramnik started running his mouth haha

[@andrehoffmann9048]

If Kramnik is trolling this would be a masterpiece😂😂

[@leo.soininen]

The fault of Kramnik here is that he fails to understand that a top player would willingly play against players who are considerably weaker than him. Kramnik comes from a world/time when top players would face each other in chess to show dominance. So Kramnik believes that everyone Hikaru faces must be his equals (in skill and ability), in which case the 45.5/46 would be nearly impossible. Also, Kramnik has dug himself into a hole. He believes himself to be the smartest man in the room, thus he cannot adequately express an apology anymore since he would see that as being weak, so he feels he must fight his corner to the death. The best way to end this is to stop reacting and let him yell in the middle of the public square like a fool until he tires himself out.

[@WiltopiaDomestead]

$20 bucks says Kramnik threatens to sue Hikaru for making him the lady on the thumbnail…

[@lammatt]

Kramnik has just become an old angry man who knows nothing

[@spiralni]

I really like how well educated in Caruana. He seems not only chess-smart, but real world smart.

[@kardosevi]

Nah, he didn’t get the most Indian catch phrase and thought Tania was friendzooning him “ my friend “

[@duumitri]

Gotta love Fabis way of explaining his thoughts

[@93lethanh]

You either die a hero or live long enough to be a villain. Kramnik's lost his mind.

[@grego1234567891]

I would love for Hikaru to destroy this guy over the board few times . What will he say then 😂

[@greense65]

That rundown of the "names" of people who signed the petition had me laughing out loud. 🤣

[@RMF49]

Yeah I cracked up most at Paul Morphy.

[@dusledorf]

Kramnik and Hikaru need to settle this with a 1000 game blitz chess competition.

[@ysf-cq2ye]

At Kramnik's age it would be a death wish

[@MrMagnaniman]

@@ysf-cq2ye He consulted with his mathematicians and they assured that him if he is humiliated, it will just prove that Hikaru is cheating.

[@NoelAKABigNolo]

Hikaru's new streak record would be 976.5, and Kramnick will find it very interesting

[@archeops.]

Nah make it 1+0 bullet

[@RECHOOSENONE]

Only in real life. If u play fairly, u nothing to hide

[@kylegilman5213]

Hikaru’s wife has appeared to sign the petition as well. Trouble in paradise? Lol. 16:37

[@CH-wn8sq]

Fabi out here dropping truthbombs

[@MistaOppritunity]

When Fabi said that the statistics that say that online chess cheating is not as prevalent are easily refuted, I thought it was just another top level player being overconfident in their understanding of statistics, but honestly I felt that he made very good points. The model used likely didn't consider people who have manipulated their rating within the rules, or people who have not played OTB in a long period of time.

[@LuisManuelLealDias]

No, your first intuition is right. Fabi also doesn't have a good intuitive grasp of statistics. Bear in mind, just a few weeks ago, he was praising Kramnik's adventure in this quest of getting to the bottom of these numbers, when it was obvious it was way over Kramnik's head! These guys simply do not understand statistics, and are not humble enough to appreciate it. Hikaru gets this point because he's the current target of bad statistical accusations, Fabi almost gets it, and Kramnik is completely lost.

[@MistaOppritunity]

@@LuisManuelLealDias Perhaps I should clarify, I didn't mean to imply I thought he was correct saying that the claims that chess cheating are easily refuted. I just believed that the concerns he brought up were well thought out and that they sounded like valid concerns.

[@LuisManuelLealDias]

@@MistaOppritunity That's fair.

[@Trizzer89]

he should be glad you are farming so that he will lose less ELO when he plays Hikaru

[@umangmehta2348]

Kramnik is digging his own grave. Keep it up mate 😂 it’s only going to get worse for him

[@MultiDreamer1234]

Farming is not cheating; it is a calculated risk. On the other hand, using a chess engine is. Now Kramnik is just grasping at straws.

[@MrMarlowe3488]

the thing is we all know hikaru farms and he's never hidden it and does it live and openly so if you personally consider it cheating you're free to do so but other people will just disagree with you and there's nothing to actually investigate

[@ThatGuy-nv7cx]

The thing is, it’s high risk high reward hikaru in farming. He needs to beat these people like 10-1 to even break even on elo, so a few bad games could rank his elo, even if he’s still mostly crushing them. Also it’s not as if hikaru ONLY farms. He’s played more TT events than almost every other player.

[@brianbrown3328]

As soon as chess went online it essentially became a video game, and gamers have been farming since before the internet.

[@hairychris444]

I'm older then Kramnik but still know what farming is. Admittedly I've been playing computer games for longer then Hikaru has been alive so that may play a part in it. Hell, I remember farming NPCs for XP in a MUD that I played in 1990... :/

[@philipmorse-fortier5499]

Kramnik isn't saying farming isn't cheating, he's saying that it's not mathematically possible if both players are correctly rated and not cheating. He misses the fact that someone might be better at 3+1 or 3+2 than 3+0, but they share a rating, and also is still missing the fact that streaks such as Hikaru went on are LIKELY if you play enough total games.

[@RMF49]

But it’s obvious that players are not always correctly rated due to many factors including plain old variance.

[@Khairan99]

theres no way hikaru is 3400+

[@RMF49]

@@Khairan99 Who said he’s 3400+

[@elduardo2496]

15:53 "Cheaters should speak for themselves." had me rolling

[@DeadSezSo]

Ive said it once and I'll say it again: Kramnik's behavior resembles the results of years of alcohol abuse. Totally out of touch with reality, overestimation of his own intelligence and skill, inability to consider things from another perspective, impossible to reason with, paranoid that everything is a conspiracy against him, nonsensical rambling on social media and picking fights with any and everyone that expresses opinions other than his own. If I were a gambling man, I'd feel comfortable placing a large bet on Kramnik being an alcoholic. I have seen this sort of thing happen time and again with friends and family who can't put the drink down. And I've seen a few finally put the drink down and see how ridiculous they acted and change. I know some people won't like me calling someone I don't know an alcoholic but I don't care, I'm quite sure of it. If its not alcohol, its prescription drugs.

[@diggitus]

It just doesn't add anything to the conversation. What matters is his behavior, not what may or may not be causing it.

[@DeadSezSo]

@@diggitus so if you speculate that kramnik is doing this out of jealousy or sheer ignorance then that's okay. But if you speculate that it's because he's a whiskey puking alkie, you're adding nothing to the conversation...got it lol how about no comments actually add anything to the conversation, it's all speculation and conjecture that does nothing but add up to gossip, nothing more and nothing less. So who cares either way? Give an opinion or don't but don't act like some opinions add something to the conversation and some don't because it's all the same either way.

[@alkanliszt]

Kramnik just can't stop digging. Someone send him a spade for Christmas.

[@jeffw1267]

That's racist

[@mctuble]

Hikaru is farming Kramnik for content like Levy farms Magnus :) I like it

[@garagara4849]

Another day, another way to exploit all the good good content from Kramnik Very nice

[@sciencefaction2646]

Can we just have Fabiano for President of Earth already?!

[@michaelmacgregor2453]

Fabi is so much more the sound of reason and logic, very level-headed and controlled response.

[@SassePhoto]

Bobby Fischer also signed the pertition to examine Hikaru, together with Alexander the Great

[@DanielEscovedo]

I'll start a band with the name "Kramnik and the mathematicians". It sounds so cool! :D

[@mmattson8947]

Not surprising that a dozen “Fabiano”s signed the petition. I want to know know how many times “Hikaru” signed.

[@aarongrooves]

You know who else signed that petition? Hikaru Nakamura 🤣

[@e4jasperi]

2:08 Spot on by Caruana, numbers can be manipulated to show anything. Without a rigorous approach, statistics can be used to prove false statements. Thus the saying: correlation does not imply causation.

[@jazzabighits4473]

No they can't. I hate the argument that numbers mean nothing or can be indefinitely manipulated. If you really think that's true, use misleading numbers/stats to show me that 90% of the people on earth are female, or that we have 100 billion people living on earth.

[@Vendavalez]

Kramnik is being a grandpa. He is just completely out of touch with the online world. It’s sad, but with the world getting ever more complex, it is going to happen to all of us about something eventually. I just hope we don’t have as many eyes on us when it does.

[@RomanNumural9]

Can someone please explain to Kramnik what a hypothesis test is? At this point I swear he's drawing the conclusion that if he doesn't understand an argument it must be wrong. This is brutal.

[@irishrepub84]

Kramnick should name his mathematicians so their theories or logic/ reason can be refuted or confirmed.

[@КонкретныйПацан-р4т]

Well, he never did. And never will do. I personally think this "mathematicians" just do not exist.

[@bigolboomerbelly4348]

Hikaru is farming Kramnik for content.

[@wusulus]

Kramnik is now just an old man yelling at clouds

[@ericb7937]

This is so entertaining. Chess is the new netflix!

[@4grammaton]

I think the way Kramnik is interpreting what "farming" means might be different to what was meant by Hikaru and Fabiano. Hikaru and Fabiano are assuming a situation where everyone is always playing to the best of their ability in good faith. Kramnik might be thinking that "farming" is actually "feeding", i.e. that when Player A is "farming" player B, player B is actually losing to Player A on purpose and feeding him rating points. In other words, he might be treating it as a scheme that both players are in on. Player A gains rating, player B loses rating. In order for this scheme to work sustainably, player B would have to have a method to quickly gain (regain) points, either by cheating, or by following the same scheme with Player C (D, E, etc). Or it could be a circle where Player A feeds C, C feeds B, and B feeds A. Or more of a network made up of many more players. This is essentially what Bobby Fischer accused Soviet chess players of doing: artificially inflating rating points amongst themselves by playing each other in certain combinations with fixed matches within their own closed internal bubble, etc (not saying he was right, I'm just saying that was his accusation). And to be honest, I think there is a line between farming and feeding which can potentially be very blurry, especially online. I am trying to be very charitable to Kramnik here though. I don't think Hikaru's cheating.

[@acvgaming5601]

The whole argument goes out the window when you consider Hikaru also plays the very top players and also wins not just his ''bubble'' of chess plebs who he farms

[@jazzabighits4473]

@@acvgaming5601 this guy is like carlsen, hes just a baby who can't stand losing to somebody

[@guybrodude]

@@jazzabighits4473 Magnus can't stand losing to someone? What, he'd never lost a game in his life before losing to Hans? And did he accuse every other person who beat him of cheating or just Hans? Get real, dude...

[@x0tek]

Claude Bloodgood literally proved that you can farm people to over-inflate your ELO. How are we still talking about this?

[@David-by8ev]

Kramniks fight for relevance (BTW: on the wrong field) that destroys everything he had achieved is tragic in the Greek sense of the word.

[@anivibes7466]

It's not ethical to play someone weaker Hikaru! Magnus: who am i playing now 🙂

[@80-80.]

Interesting that both Karjakin and Kramnik have effectively removed themselves from chess for the rest of their lives. They chose slightly different methods, but the same result.

[@boolowoertheenappydreaded5359]

Wait what did CarJackin do?

[@pugsnhogz]

Fabi just looks like such a nerd! Type of dude walks into a room and everyone expects a lecture, and that the lecture will be informative and good.

[@carlosalcibiades2065]

Who can be so whacko to threaten Fabiano?

[@farishakim6759]

Fabiano: breath Hikaru : exactly, thats definitely true

[@derechte6086]

I love how Fabiano doesnt dive into the mathematics but approacges it philosophically saying the rating difference isn’t equal to real strength difference and this implied that real games and blitz games online cant be compared as the same thing

[@anivibes7466]

Imagine being so good that people think you are cheating kinda a flex if u ask me 😅

[@MrMagnaniman]

If you haven't been accused of cheating, you're not actually any good.

[@hbk619fan123]

Kramnik and hikaru, magnus and levi Dynamic duos are everywhere

[@ysf-d9i]

Elo isn't even supposed to work on any specific set of two players. For example, one player might have a style that happens to make it easy for them to beat another particular player, thus making the games between the two players very skewed despite them having similar strength. Elo only measures the average or expected outcome between independent events and players on average over a large dataset.

[@Way2Smart22]

Kramnik should just be making the case that online ratings need to be server match-made only and that rematches and friendlies are automatically unrated. This would basically remove problems from the rating systems with the exceptions that are also possible otb (sitting on a rating, going lengths to farm by playing specific tournaments--though this is actually easier to prevent online, etc.).

[@suninlaw]

If Kramnik thinks options 3 and 4 are cheating, and Kramnik is openly pointing at Hikaru for investigation into options 3 and 4, how the heck is he not accusing Hikaru of cheating? No seriously, can someone explain this to me?

[@_Majunior]

Hikaru constantly sounds like a middle aged man ordering at a drive thru

[@strangedeadfish]

Using Kramnik's logic: no one ever wins the lottery but if you do, you cheated.

[@_charlie]

Stalin's signature speaks for itself.

[@gotchaya]

Kramnik is like the crazy meth head shouting nonsense outside your window at three o'clock at night.

[@daviddurbin7682]

Kramnik is saying that increasing your rating by farming is a form of cheating because it is artificial inflation of rating. But that would mean if you really weren't that strong when you play a person who has the same rating but didn't farm the farmer will lose lol. So it only hurts the one who farming

[@iluvtododrawrings]

Magnus, the perpetual farmer.

[@lucdk5]

Kramnik crossed the line when disrespecting our beloved Fabi

[@rivenn_3500]

Imagine Hikaru starts his own petition and it doubles kramink's total in an hour just to rub it in. KEKW

[@matteovrizzi]

Kramnik is exactly like my friend who believes in aliens... writes the same way with capital letters

[@janiheiskanen1326]

Kramnik is in denial mode. Poor guy.. it just goes to show that no matter how great mind you might have your ego can still make you a little man.

[@Ofruss]

Kramnik blew your ass up simply by asking to check your play, although he said that he welcomes any checks, even in his direction

[@Musix4me-Clarinet]

Wow! When we got to the Kramnik response, specifically whether it is ethical to deliberately play lower-rated players, my heart rate jumped 10 bpm. First of all, Hikaru is one of the greatest players to ever play the game. These people accepting his requests for a game/series of games are *_grateful_* to have that opportunity. Secondly, they will undoubtedly learn where they need more understanding of the game as he trounces them. What an asinine view Kramnik has. This is online and has *ZERO* influence on anything of consequence. Hikaru will have a 3000++ rating regardless of farming. As far as _allowing_ Kramnik to continue ranting, I believe he should be allowed to. But I also agree that we can, collectively, decide to ignore him. I know that whenever Fischer showed up, people latched on to the free publicity even though we all knew he was demented.

[@night_inhale]

yea like... they are very happily enjoying the chance to play hikaru 10 times or whatever. I would play hikaru and im 800 (now 850ish) blitz. I think it might be time to just start ignoring kramnik or just nonstop making fun of him.

[@bipolarminddroppings]

You can't improve without playing the best, Hikaru is doing a service to chess by playing people way worse than him, he is improving the overall level of chess by giving people a chance to play with the 2nd best player in the world daily. You can prove this point by looking at 3 sports: Poker has ALWAYS (Atleast the last 50 years) had women playing at the very top of the game, because until recently there were no women tournaments, so they had to play with the best men. The top women's pool players stopped playing on the women's tour and joined the men's about 5 years ago, they got smashed mostly to start with, now they're beating the top men regularly. Similar thing happened in darts with the top women joining the men's tour, they got smashed, now they don't.

[@bigheadrhino]

Total Boomer take by Kramnik. Ratings mean very little online because win or lose you have access to so much quantity that you can easily win back the points you lost in streak or lose all the points you gained within a single day.

[@TeslasMoustache419]

Why are you bashing on Fischer though? He was very lucid and was right as opposed to Kramnik who is completely wrong.

[@mattsilverman1075]

​@bipolarminddroppings the top Women pool players still play huge majority in women's tournaments and do not compete evenly with men, this example is false.

[@brgulker]

Kramnik going full Bobby Fischer.

[@MuralidharAreti]

According to Kramnik, If you play a weaker opponent and win, you are cheating. If a weaker player is willing to play a stronger opponent for the experience, learning opportunities, and/or wants to do their own rating climb by hopefully beating a stronger player… then they are also cheating. Therefore, by Kramnik’s logic, unless you are Kramnik you are cheating.

[@Bobbius-il9rf]

This honestly feels like Hans is trolling Hikaru and the chess community using Kramnik's identity...surely no-one can be truly this oblivious to reality.

[@asumazilla]

Did he meet Kramnik for coaching like he was planning?

[@raffaeledivora9517]

​@@asumazillaYes, they met last month, then Hans went on to nuke the Tournament of Peace and Kramnik lost his mind... Coincidence? Hans stole Kramnik's sanity 😂