So judging the directions War Thunder is going this tank will be an absolute beast bc soon at 7.0 and above if you get at least 750 SP you'll be able to spawn a medium sized Velociraptor to attack the enemy tanks. So this cage will be very handy to have. 🦕
@phatbongshaggy2163 Жыл бұрын
Cant wait till they add the swarm of weaponized bee's for the light tanks
@MrRobotsk8r Жыл бұрын
I’m excited for the Pigeon Bomb update
@Novous Жыл бұрын
just wait till you can press 7 and drop a Concrete Donkey from WORMS on an enemy open top vehicles
@T0tenkampf Жыл бұрын
@@Novous +10 internets for Worms reference
@dauntless_3496 Жыл бұрын
Most creative comment I've seen in a while 😂😂
@lairyhegs9956 Жыл бұрын
You uploaded right when I got back to my apartment with food like it was meant to be. I would love to see a video on the M47. I think because it's foldered a lot of people have never played it and don't know how good it is. Basically just an M41 turned into a medium tank. Gotta love the fast turret speed and coaxial .50 cal
@thefirstkingdogo1126 Жыл бұрын
Enjoy your meal
@mcfragger2605 Жыл бұрын
that thing is seriously underrated, it has a beast turret rotation speed and 2 50 cals at would eats up annoying lights like the btr 82
@angryeliteultragree6329 Жыл бұрын
The heat cage should actually work against early heat shells, because in the late 40s all the way to the 60s the heat charge detonated on the first layer and was rendered useless by the time it hit the armor. Another example of the early heat shell doing this is the RPG-5 which was used against Filipino armored cars. They literally put cardboard boxes on the damn things and that worked.
@santoast24 Жыл бұрын
I would LOVE to see you take out the Italian P40 (tank, not plane obviously) for a spin. Super underated, rarely played, and honestly I find it a lot of fun because its so rare that people dont know how to kill it (although any uptierd gun goes straight through it) Plus, the P40 mixed with the AB 43 is just such a killer combo, both fairly unique tanks once you actually hop in them
@ronaldmcreagann6343 Жыл бұрын
I’d honestly get him to play it simply for the fact it’s among the few tanks in game that has a custom sight without and modification. It’s really unique in that regard.
@bentrod3405 Жыл бұрын
When I was going up through italy the p40 felt like it was made of paper because I got uptiered so much. In a full downtier its pretty good but if you get uptiered at all you just get killed by the first thing that sees you. The ab43 felt better just because you knew you didnt have armor so your main focus is just shoot them before they shoot you and move as fast as you can to hit flanks.
@bankshaft1329 ай бұрын
I see a P40 and instantly go into alert mode haha
@LenfredDueck Жыл бұрын
Thanks for covering this thing Baws. It's definitely underrated. It the first US tank I enjoyed grinding out since like 4.7-5.0.
@Paronak10 ай бұрын
the M26 left such a bad taste in my mouth anything looking like the M26 gets the bin
@snackmachines8045Ай бұрын
as a US main I can confirm that I got my first nuke with the M46. It's one hell of a tank at 7.0.
@max0vrdr1ve82 Жыл бұрын
Could you play the Pz. III M, it is a satisfying vehicle to play but often overshadowed by the Pz. IVs at 3.3. Love the content, always enjoyable to watch 😃
@I_am_looking_for_GF Жыл бұрын
Yeah kinda of a bummer that its now at 3.3
@crazypotato4151 Жыл бұрын
Idk why so much peoples hate this pz 3 , he has not so bad armor (especially in turret) , fast reload and penetration like 75 mm sherman. To my setup 3.3 i rather take him than another pz 4
@Marin3r101 Жыл бұрын
@@crazypotato4151 Its a "he" now?
@crazypotato4151 Жыл бұрын
@@Marin3r101 dude if u want to say that my english is bad ill say yes , cuz its not my native language, sorry
@hansiminator69 Жыл бұрын
I think he already did like 3 years ago, but I think it’s time for a new one as well! It was an absolute beast at 3.0 and it id still very good at 3.3
@bushboi Жыл бұрын
This is such a pleasant surprise, I literally rewatched the old M46 video yesterday cuz it's my favourite tank that none talks about ever
@eagleeye7166 Жыл бұрын
I do agree odd, i miss the historical matchmaking. It seemed more balanced while also not being balanced at all.
@brentonherbert7775 Жыл бұрын
Its a pretty noticeable fact though that whenever the Dday event happens the battles are indeed balanced despite what you'd think otherwise.
@F-18Super Жыл бұрын
gotta love that Tiger 1 vs M4 (75) shermans
@munastronaut8147 Жыл бұрын
@@F-18Superi think he meant your opponents and allies are historical, like if ur us ur fighting germany and are fighting with soviets
@brentonherbert7775 Жыл бұрын
@@F-18Super Its not that hard lmao. Dude you never played the Jumbo?????
@F-18Super Жыл бұрын
@@brentonherbert7775 notice I said M4 75mm obviously not referring to the Jumbo *boink* *tiger 1 crew knocked out*
@excalibruh1380 Жыл бұрын
2 nukes 1 coop
@Drakey_Fenix Жыл бұрын
Since you didn't seem to notice, tickets don't drain anymore if you get the nuke. So that you have a chance to drop it. They changed that a while ago.
@volteer1332 Жыл бұрын
That's not true unless they changed it after the summer event. I had multiple nuke alarms and if there's a cap advantage it keeps bleeding. It wouldn't be fair to teams if that was the case.
@ExcavationNation Жыл бұрын
They 100 percent still drain bro
@Drakey_Fenix Жыл бұрын
@@volteer1332Well it has worked that way for me and I have gotten 3 nukes since that was added
@volteer1332 Жыл бұрын
@@Drakey_Fenix then you must have had equal caps or none because the game hasn't worked like that. Or people did the smart thing and equalized the caps to let you drop it like good teammates
@bigboygrease5922 Жыл бұрын
You gotta quit spying on me Odd😂😂 I just researched this thing yesterday😂😂
@ilikesnow707411 ай бұрын
The cage might work against early HEAT in real life, but it would definitely work against a panzerfaust, panzerschreck, Bazooka, and probably an RPG-2.
@jeffkardosjr.38258 ай бұрын
It would be good against HESH. I had a match in the T-44-100, and I figured out the guy shooting at my tank was using HESH. I turned my tank sideways so he would hit the side skirts.
@sturm81156 ай бұрын
Cage actually works against heat rounds but because its designed to stop early rpg rounds it only stops 75mm heat rounds (other than he ofc). So if you somehow encounter a panzer 4 at 7.0 that for some reason is using heat only you are basically immune to them if we just ignore the fact that your armor can bounce literal jagdtiger rounds at range. Just a neat fact about probably the best U.S vehicle after the Greyhound and early Shermans.
@Billy-I-Am-Not3 ай бұрын
The thing about anti-HEAT cages is that Gaijin's game limitations kind of prevent their ability to function as intended It's a common misconception that the purpose of slat/cage armor is to prematurely detonate a HEAT warhead. Then, by the time the plasticized jet of copper hits the actual armor, it will have lost enough energy to no longer be effective against it. But this actually isn't the case, and it definitely wasn't the case with early HEAT projectiles. See, HEAT projectiles need something called "stand-off distance" in order to be most effective. To put it simply, the warhead needs to be a certain distance from the thing its trying to penetrate in order to give the plasticized copper lining enough time to focus and converge. If it doesn't have this stand-off distance, then the warhead will be less effective. Secondly, when travelling through open air, it takes a lot longer for a jet of copper to lose its energy. Seriously, that jet moves at speeds of *kilometers* per second, an additional foot or two of air at most isn't really going to impact it all that much. And then, with the factor of standoff distance, it might even make the warhead *more* effective. So the purpose of cage armor isn't to prematurely detonate the warhead, but instead to physically destroy the warhead *without* detonating it. It shreds the warhead but it intentionally does not try to activate the fuse. If the warhead does hit directly on one of the slats and detonates as intended, then the cage armor is often worse than useless. But Gaijin doesn't actually model this. Cage armor is modeled as one continuous slab of armor so its literally impossible for a heat warhead to hit it and *not* detonate.
@keegan96603 ай бұрын
That's actually really informative. I didn't know that. Thanks
@PilotTed Жыл бұрын
The m46 was used in Korea, so during that time, it's cage armor was actuslly quite effective as the main threat it faced were very early shaped cha4ge munitions that the Koreans and Chinese had with the RPG 2.
@DocTaff Жыл бұрын
Try the Tempest MkV wit the 47mm Vickers P cannons. A seriously underrated cannon CAS plane down at 3.7 that can pen pretty much everything it sees.
@hellfighter69420 Жыл бұрын
there's the hurricane Mk.2 with the 40mm vickers. i think it's 2.0 or something.
@cheetahda1o763 Жыл бұрын
@@hellfighter69420 yeah but those guns are horribly inaccurate, maybe the 47 mm are better?
@intlon4299 Жыл бұрын
Man i just played that in a custom in a 2v2 against a 3.7 P47 and P38. As a tempest enjoyer, they got ez‘d because of the vertical power of the Tempest, despite the 47s
@emeraldeyes9246 Жыл бұрын
not sure if someone said this yet but the cage was to stop rockets not HE shells
@Tamonke Жыл бұрын
Day 1 of asking oddbawz to play War Thunder.
@bighobo7745 Жыл бұрын
The cage was likely meant to defend against hand-held AT rockets of its time so not surprising it doesn't do much at all vs. HEAT in the game
@scott0851 Жыл бұрын
2.3 Russian t80 is a beast if you play it properly very underrated
@volteer1332 Жыл бұрын
I prefer the t60: it's autocannon belt doesn't have tracer rounds so if you can get over the slow turret rotation, you can be a stealthy little rat and they can't see you by your bullets, only your muzzle flashes and rattly Russian engine.
@Crusader-tu9gb Жыл бұрын
In this video you have demonstrated the power of HEATFS against heavy targets. Considering the Jpz 4-5 has similar capabilities at 6.3, it definitely deserves a look. Try it out!
@matthewboychuk1259 Жыл бұрын
Always a good day when you post a vid Odd. Would love to see the chi nu or a series of you favorite lineups per country.
@MrPitics Жыл бұрын
I like to see the ol m46 getting some love. The premium one was my first premium tank back in the day and I played the shit out of it. Love it very much still.
@bongwater2290Ай бұрын
Dropped my first nuke in arcade playing with the M46 and T29 tonight! Great video
@TheUnseenWaffle Жыл бұрын
"Now, unless you're blind." LMFAO 😂😂😂😂😂
@Tooawesome6939 ай бұрын
I wonder if the chicken coop would help against the scourge of artillery tanks added since
@IceMarsoc77 Жыл бұрын
you want to know whats funny..... is that chicken coop is coming in handy against drones lol
@commanderdon4300 Жыл бұрын
The Panzer III M and the Italian P40 are 2 tanks that i'd like to see you play a few games in.
@tonynunya8063 Жыл бұрын
😆First thing he says is "I'm gonna die." The chain link clip art they used on the chicken coop looks so low rent. Can't they at least make it look like they didn't cut out a picture of a chain link fence? Well at least you always entertain me.
@ssrocky4gaming Жыл бұрын
I play this tank and I think I have the premium one as well, I get butt whooped when I use them, can never seem to pen anything even at close range even shooting for the week spots. But I still love using them. Great vid as always buddy keep em coming. Ps. Can you play the vickers I think it's 7.0 as I am trying to get used to using it and could do with some pointers on how best to handle it.
@NJPurling Жыл бұрын
I caught the reference to the Trinity test in New Mexico: "Turn the desert into glass".
@Nor_Aviator Жыл бұрын
Hey Odd! Please try the ISU-152 at 4.7. Or the JPZ-4-5.. Love the videos! Thank you for making my day better every single day.
@guanyin19 Жыл бұрын
For underrated vehicles, you should bring out the Japanese Type 61. With all the other ATGM and HEATFS vehicles recently moving up to 8.0 in br, armor rules mid br again. Because the Type 61 stayed where it is at 6.7 you can make use of its deadly ammo and quick reload to delete overconfident Soviet and German enemy tanks.
@pandovian_ Жыл бұрын
Hard agree on the historical matchmaking. I still miss it.
@SkopiousIsHere9 ай бұрын
as an american player, it is a cope cage. but its silly
@svyatoslavchornenkyi1639 Жыл бұрын
Ratel 90 is highly underrated being at 6.7 with an atgm even after many tanks were moved up on br it’s still 6.7
@t.sorvig3540 Жыл бұрын
I'm a huge fan of the T32 and would love to see how it performs with so many tanks moving up in BR. I've always found good arguments for it to be 7.0 rather than 7.3, but maybe it will truly shine with much of its competition being moved up.
@The-Slunk Жыл бұрын
An underrated vehicle you haven't played in a while: German class 3. It's a chonky wheely boy that's fun to play
@ExcavationNation Жыл бұрын
Great video as always brother.
@iiimom8411 Жыл бұрын
The cage isn’t for HEAT from tanks, but for infantry AT weapons like the rpg or bazooka, it also works against ww2 heat and reduce the damage from heat in game
@searaider3340 Жыл бұрын
Some times it works against atgms and other heat rounds too.
@magnum6763 Жыл бұрын
ive stopped HESH with it before
@searaider3340 Жыл бұрын
I have stopped Milan atgm :D@@magnum6763
@Guy_GuyGuy Жыл бұрын
It wasn't for that either. Neither the North Koreans nor the Chinese in the Korean War had any sort of shoulder-fired HEAT weapons. They did have hand-thrown anti-tank grenades like the RPG-43 and RPG-6 though, which the chicken wire would have stopped. There are also anecdotes of US tanks being swarmed and climbed all over by Chinese human waves while other US tanks tried to shoot them off with their machine guns, which the wire might have also been designed to stop.
@searaider3340 Жыл бұрын
@@Guy_GuyGuy A random fence can stop heat shells in WT
@pennycarvalho1223 Жыл бұрын
You should try the m47, the original m47 has like one of the fastest turret traverse speed, with the 90mm goodie.
@rasmusjonsson1348 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video! Why does it have training wheels? (Small wheels under the sprockets.)
@fluidize8532 Жыл бұрын
Wow! Awesome video! Could you please play the T-72's variant: The Moderna?
@justyouraveragehuman4069 Жыл бұрын
If we’re talking underrated the first OF-40 has got to be up there. Laser range finder heat-fs mobile and kinda funky armour (sometimes).
@dounce5926 Жыл бұрын
So glad that someone finally addressed its mobility. Seriously on par with leopards imo.
@SoliTheMoli Жыл бұрын
how do you switch your gun view between the machine gun and main gun? i've been looking for this setting a while now.
@rollastudent Жыл бұрын
I’m not sure if it has a standard setting, but there is “select machine gun” under tank controls.
@volteer1332 Жыл бұрын
There's a setting where you can weapon select to only use the main gun, secondary gun, or machine gun. It isn't a mapped function by default. It's under the keyword "weapon selection." Just remember to also map deselecting it so you can control both your cannon MG and coaxial again if you need to.
@rhystaylor851 Жыл бұрын
This thing and the M47 are two of the best sleeper tanks, I prefer the M47 because of armor (still sad about the T25 stabs tho)
@annadelsiena Жыл бұрын
I dunno if the Avenger is very underrated, but I don't see a lot of them getting used so it's my suggestion for game! Relatively quick firing, good mobility if you ignore the reverse gear, and light armor that somehow lets you get away with stuff a lot of times Could even throw in a Firebrand TF Mk IV as an """"interesting""" plane backup
@EnterTheFenix Жыл бұрын
Cold War era... USA + German tracks...
@andrewfebriyanto39363 ай бұрын
I burnout with this American BR 7.0, should i quit or keep going?. Cause i always face with uptiers
@brandondonaldson9838 ай бұрын
So I’m seeing just premium tank that’s up in battle rating of 7.0 while grinding out in lower brs while some KZbinrs are buying premium tanks that they only play for about two days just to be be in lower higher brs don’t get me wrong like how odd pulls of the weirdest shots in these tanks .but I love what you do by giving us Awsome advice with dealing with these tanks so keep doing what you do bro
@raysschoko11 ай бұрын
@oddbawz does using a nuke give you a reward credits XP etc... if not wouldnt it be better to carry on when grinding?
@outhouse9451 Жыл бұрын
My grandpa just passed away. Odd makes the pain go away❤
@SONYSIKE Жыл бұрын
No chicken coop 2nd gameplay?
@Igzilee Жыл бұрын
I think the reason most people overlook it is because it just doesn't have a good lineup. It's essentially the only 7.0. You can bring up your 6.7s but your tanks without HEAT will struggle against 8.0s.
@G.Berk.A Жыл бұрын
at 4:20 ish(nice) a vehicle spawned out of thin air yep warthunder is esports ready ...
@tigerbread62 Жыл бұрын
Been a while since you played the pz iv, think that’s quite underrated
@agent304 Жыл бұрын
This tank reminds me of 13 ghosts the Jackal with that cage
@dawnbreaker981 Жыл бұрын
Yo bawz, you should play the amx 50 foch, you dont have a video on it and with the recent br changes it think it will do way better. Its a casemate tank destroyer with the same gun as the surbiasse. But has a 180mm upper front plate sloped at 56 degrees.
@NagoyaRR Жыл бұрын
"and what the devil is on Joseph's head?"
@mateuszcirocki6492 Жыл бұрын
Oddbawz you should get from gaijn an medal for the best youtuber Player in game war thunder your tactics are so inspiring to me
@lukelauner9672 Жыл бұрын
I would recommend maybe something from the US 8.3 line. A couple tanks are decent and a few are absolute garbage.
@CT-0511 Жыл бұрын
Can you make a video on the mKPz M47 G? Ive been thinking about buying it to fit into my 7.x loadout since there's a gap in it now that the Leopard I is 8.0
@Static-register09 Жыл бұрын
Great vid odd! Love your vids so much ❤
@Static-register09 Жыл бұрын
What
@Static-register09 Жыл бұрын
😀
@henkfourie9862 Жыл бұрын
I have a list of underrated tanks in the US line The M47 The M48 The M60A1 (AOS) And my personal favorite and possibly most controversial; The M41A1 Walker Bulldog Granted its APDS is like a laser because it punches right through Panthers and Tigers but has no spawl, but the M41A1 has decent mobility overall, about 12 boxes of .50 ammo for the MG, and the Turret traverse is still ok even after its unjust nerf from the real 36 degrees a second to 23 degrees. Also its at 6.0 and has commander override of gunner controls. Please play the M41A1 Odd, its been 3 years since the last
@ogscarl3t375 Жыл бұрын
YESSSSSSS Bring on the wartoonda content Bawlbag !
@vaguevtx5090 Жыл бұрын
Last nuke i got was in the M46. Things a beast if you know how to angle and place shots
@liamsmall5315 Жыл бұрын
Can you play the Swedish panzer 4 it’s good and non German team in a German tank
@Ferne345 Жыл бұрын
feels weird watching you nuke my home city @ 31:10
@wilso845 Жыл бұрын
Loved how you said it would be funny to drop the nuke on your team 😂 regardless of where you drop it, your team will be having a bad day ☢️😂
@timl9870 Жыл бұрын
Black Prince, your favourite!
@saeer5038 Жыл бұрын
My main problem with m46 and other USAs meds after Sherman's is their lack of stabilizer. You just get so used to it that its painful to play without
@Lemmunzz Жыл бұрын
his tank says "Squid-Sex" on the side lol
@rawrthraider6329 Жыл бұрын
The chicken coup is honestly great at stopping heatfs shells to the turret lol
@Rosaslav10 ай бұрын
Is it? He mentioned in video, that it doesn’t work against that. I didn’t unlock the cage to make me a test target yet:)
@rawrthraider632910 ай бұрын
@@Rosaslav it eats the Heat shells that my M41 shoots all the time
@lordboreas1425 Жыл бұрын
Honestly love the Crusader's at low BR, they might not have the best gun ever but reload is quick as it gets and it is highish pen. The amount of kills I get flanking in the tech tree and the saint premium one is quite good. Also the armour seems to absorb some weird amount of damage it really shouldn't at times.
@slaaneshgod Жыл бұрын
To be fair I am a US main and this is the underrated vehicle I would have suggested. LOL It is the main one I use in my 7.0 lineup I like this and the t29. I wish the turtle was easier to play but I do TERRIBLE in it. Im only up to 7.3 so I dont know what other US vehicles to suggest and dont have a ton of experience with any other nations yet. my best ratio is the m4a5 and you have done a video on that I believe. I will think if I can come up with anything. Im sure others have great suggestions.
@Cark0213 Жыл бұрын
you should play the GAZ-MM (72-k), its a 2.3 spaa with a funny gun, and its a milk truck
@vonknorring09 Жыл бұрын
The low br zis 12
@MSgtRazor Жыл бұрын
23:18 ricochet, then killed commander, driver, and gunner. just WT things
@Endoloris99 Жыл бұрын
More ignored than underated but the amx13ss11 I like it
@danb4900 Жыл бұрын
I reckon the chicken wire would help against early handheld AT launchers and shit
@uselessmitten7836 Жыл бұрын
iirc, historical matchmaking would occasionally add France to axis because of the Vichy government fighting the allies in southern France.
@ExcavationNation Жыл бұрын
Odd id love to see you play the AML or the eland
@ExcavationNation Жыл бұрын
Yea edit odd. You don't have any aml or eland vids. Please! Soon!
@mr.cogwheel Жыл бұрын
The Valentine IX (9 for those who don't know roman numerals) is a really good British tank that I rarely seen played and rarely seen played well, I one time managed to get a 15 kill 0 death game in Normandy open fields battle.
@searaider3340 Жыл бұрын
I love this tank, it's much better than the other vehicles in my 7.7 lineup.
@alpacaofthemountain8760 Жыл бұрын
Its one of those tanks that just wokrs
@G-manFan19 ай бұрын
thats one hell of a title
@twix2770 Жыл бұрын
7k views and not even 1hour ago I am proud
@motumoyu4566 Жыл бұрын
i just wished Biased Gaijin would make the cage work on heat. because in real life they work. Its so sad that you can take out any modern Russian tank in real life with a grenade or one rpg from a drone thanks to the Ukraine war. but in this game written by communist, their tanks will always have a code written better for them than whats realistic
@sebastianfalcon948 Жыл бұрын
Dumbass comment 😂
@Barefoot-Bob Жыл бұрын
I would like to see more British play especially in the 8.3 to 11.3 there underdogs in this range. Also how about more brawling.
@Skidiot Жыл бұрын
The OG Cope cage
@vr00xy Жыл бұрын
bros literally farming nukes, GG
@MrRembrandt619 Жыл бұрын
The ARL 44 with its new pen would be good to do
@johntc8840 Жыл бұрын
Not often I give a video a thumbs up for the title before even seeing the video.
@NvrchFotia Жыл бұрын
I think the cage is meant to stop much smaller heat rockets and also hesh.
@nikolaideianov5092 Жыл бұрын
The problem is who is useing any heat that that cant pen it
@joe_mammmas_boy Жыл бұрын
Bro the maus is underrated 😂
@beestbro9883 Жыл бұрын
I think you should use the Sherman 3/4 in a video, one of the best Sherman’s imo
@wesleypena6306 Жыл бұрын
Kv1 S I think it’s underrated never see it used
@volteer1332 Жыл бұрын
Because if I remember, it has weaker turret armor than the tech tree version, and it's otherwise not radically different from any other KV1 besides the uparmored KV1 E
@ZachmanMMX Жыл бұрын
great vid as normal! underrated vehicle would have to be the crusader II
@leonirspaz5409 ай бұрын
Historical mm might not be a thing anymore but past BR 8.3 as Russian it is literally impossible to get matched up with Germany. Ever since I reached 8.3 (currently at 10.3) in the Russian tree I’ve yet to be matched up with Germany, only ever against them.
@jeffkardosjr.38258 ай бұрын
I get the tier system, but it would be nice to have an optional game mode that could be done by decade or year. Such as in the Strike Fighters series of games, you can only use a missile that was available for that year in real life. It would be nice to be able to play more historically accurate early Cold War matches where APFSDS doesn't exist yet.
@leonirspaz5408 ай бұрын
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 or where a A4-E drops a bomb from 10KM away on me without even SPAA being able to lock it. Or helicopters sitting 5KM away shooting rockets because they can. Their engines running as cool as a fridge so you can t lock them with strela. Great...
@rossnelson9576 Жыл бұрын
Try the US M47 - it’s a refinement of the 46, but adds a rangefinder, and a coax M2
@rossnelson9576 Жыл бұрын
As well as the m48, since it’s folders behind it, but remains similar
@notarussianspy76211 ай бұрын
can you do the premium version now?
@Rosaslav10 ай бұрын
Yeah, might be worth revisiting with all HE bonkers around now:)
@notarussianspy76210 ай бұрын
@@Rosaslav me who uses the m46 "tiger" (it doesnt have an HE shield)