Fast Duo, Slow Quad - E8500 vs Q6600 - Which is faster?

[@zachbeckner]

Its crazy how much it comes alive after you overclock it.

[@jims_junk]

yeah it really is

[@JoseLuiz-xo8yj]

its very hot

[@Obie327]

Fun times back in 2008, I started in January with p35 chipset and an E6750 then later that year a E8600 with the P45 chipset. final upgrade was the Q9650/4 gigs ram running an EVGA GTS 250 1 gig oc'd GPU. (Great times back then) Thanks Jim for retro comparison. Peace!

[@Protoking]

I really was envious of the Q9650 back in the day and still now I want to buy one cheap and own what I used to pine after so much. I thought it was cooler than an i7 with that massive 12mb of L2 cache 6 for each pair of cores.

[@jamesdavies686]

I have one of those EVGA 250's and the dang thing doesn't go below 60% fan speed and is so noisy.

[@Obie327]

@@jamesdavies686 I rarely ever noticed the sound it made back then.. Most systems were kinda noisy back then, And mine sat on a thin box on the floor under my table. With a 21 inch Black IBM CRT and speakers on top. Discrete sound cards that sounded spectacular through some good speakers.

[@Shabaz2104]

Hey i was willing to upgrade my pc as a sort of passion project my budget is really limited to 50 bucks usd and i have a core 2 duo e8400 could you suggest on what upgardes i need to make i have a small form factor case and 5gb of ram . Please tell me what graphics card i should pair 😊

[@betara_indera_gunung_timur]

imho, the true limiting factor of q6600 is compared to e8500, is its lacks of SSE4.x. effectively crippling its longevity. i vaguely remember some games will actually not run on Phenom/Phenom II, the latter which only has SSE4a. a few that comes to mind were Dishonored 2, Mafia III, and Apex Legends. not sure if it stays true now since some similar games (in regards to requiring SSE4.x) did get patched to remove the limitations. also, in regards to q6600, the g0 revision, which goes with s-spec SLACR, is 95watts. it was the older one, the b3 (SL9UM) that was 105watts. the b3 also has better compatibility with older board/chipsets, such as VIA P4M900. i remember this because i happened to have such board, once upon a time. it took a lot of hunting on used market to finally able to boot up that board without it randomly crashing when got into Desktop

[@andipajeroking]

Q6600 is a legend. I ve been using it for 16 years 🥰

[@Tundreq]

I had my doubts which one was going to win because I have both cpu's in my retro lan, and also overclocked but never measured. Happy to know the results! Great job and thank you!

[@mesterak]

That was a good comparison thank you! Maybe test the E8500 and Q6600@3GHz vs an E5450 (771 to 775 mod)?

[@jims_junk]

I never did a 771 to 775 mod, but want to. I've heard about people doing that for ages just never got around to messing with it myself, but I want to. So I will be doing some of that in the future.

[@jims_junk]

Thank you!

[@germangelv34]

@@jims_junk Yo lo hice y tengo una antigua maquina de trabajo que tuvo E8500 a Q6600 a mod 771 E5450 con full DDR2 8GB (2X4) 1066Mhz (special ram) y HD1650.

[@user-si2ee1pd6m]

E5450(q9650) little faster, 45nm and more l2 cashe

[@KeyToTime]

I was lucky and had a Q9650 overclocked to 4Ghz. Best of both worlds. That CPU lasted me as my main gaming CPU from 2008 until 2014. I kept it running after that until 2018, amazing CPU. Can't believe that the 4790k that I replaced it with is now the same age as the Q9650 was when I retired it.

[@TheMrawesomest]

Oh boy, overclocking made a considerable difference back then. Back then, and still relative nowadays, multithread support was what made quadcore CPUs shine. Even with single threaded applications, more cores meant a smoother overall experience. Especially with a modern OS and current programs. Just think how fast it is nowadays to hit alt+tab to get out of a full screen game back to the desktop.

[@randomstuff-cu4of]

These days, as evidenced by the latest intel cpus frying themselves after less than a year at stock speeds, CPUs are already pushed to the limit from the factory and there really isn' t any oc headroom unless you do something crazy like LN2 cooling.

[@markcleveland9656]

This was very useful. Thank you

[@Berkaykn]

Underrated channel

[@t.a.p4554]

this is quality.. 👌

[@rogerrock12games]

You just got algorithmed. That benchmark is bomb

[@TheLittleBilli]

Check the frequency the GPU is running at a given usage percentage. It can report 50% GPU utilization, but at 1000 MHz and run slower overall than 30% GPU utilization, but at 1800 MHz. I suggest you to show more stats in msi afterburner/riva tuner, like GPU power draw and frequency, both very important to decide if GPU is being more or less use.

[@kenh6096]

Great videos, loving all these old reviews.

[@jims_junk]

Thanks!

[@Pulverrostmannen]

I always overclocked the 775 platform because you get insane increase in performance doing so, it would not take too long before I got a Q9550 and I OC that to 3,4Ghz and ran it like that from the beginning and it was not easy to beat in performance

[@ALIENOID_VISCID_CLONE]

I found an interesting channel. I Subscribed

[@Firebird_TV]

I didn't realize 'til I watch this video ...I recently swapped out a E7600 for a Q9650 on my G41 XP64 machine ...and now I should swap the 1066 for 1333 DRR3, Thank You.

[@DualPerformance]

I upgraded from overclocked E8500 3.8 GHz to overclocked Core 2 Quad Q8400 3.2 GHz back in 2010 because the dual core was pegged at high cpu usage in some games, specially in "bf bad company 2" and "nfs hot pursuit 2010", after the upgrade got every game running very smooth on the quad, I think that your quad have a bottleneck by the low clockspeed

[@jims_junk]

Yup. that was sorta the point, can a faster dual keep up or beat a slower quad. The Q6600 uses a 1066 fsb while the E8500 uses 1333...that makes a huge difference. The Q8400 you upgraded to, also used a 1333fsb. You made the right choice with that, I'll bet it was night and day. Thats sorta like how when I overclocked the q6600 to 1333fsb at the end, it overtook everything.

[@DualPerformance]

​@@jims_junk There is still a plan for a last upgrade because I like so much this platform, but the Q9550 is $40 USD here and for now I only saving to upgrade to a last get gen CPU, my Asus P5QL Pro (P43) will keep colecting dust because my I7 3770 is getting very old for lastest games

[@inherentlyflawed]

@@jims_junk If you put tape on one of the pads on the q6600, it overclocks the chip, I forget how it works, but it sets the FSB back to the default 1333mhz, and it works on motherboards that can't overclock.

[@brendonlaucheekeong636]

In feb 2009, I have to decide between a expensive quad core Q9400 and a E8500 but i choose a faster dual core E8500 because both are 45nm & not very energy efficient for quad core. Q6600 is cheaper than Q9400 but it is 65nm not very energy efficient. Nowadays in 2023 quad core are very cheap and are 12nm. I only play simple game like DOTA 2 and csgo, COD waw, mw & mw3,black ops 1 & 2,ghosts , Battlefield 3 & 4, rome & attila using AMD ryzen 5 - 4600G. Now my core2duo E8500 with new afox motherboard for playing Old PC games.

[@CountlessPWNZ]

Cod Waw, total war? are you me?

[@LotoTheHero]

Yup, went about as expected. =D

[@meh78336]

This why back in the day, I got the E8500 (at the time in all honesty, there was not much in it price wise either so it wasn't a cost choice), as all the reviews said the same thing for gaming, nothing really uses the 4 cores as most games at the time were clock speed and 2 threads over anything else. which with a CPU overclock made it that bit better. It left my mate a bit disappointed as he got the Q6600 after I got my E8500 even when I told him for gaming it wasn't really worth it especially as we both upgraded regular thanks our summer bonus or January backdated pay rise, and he did a 3GHZ overclock as well and it did little compared to my 3.4GHZ one. On the plus side, he did listen when we next got the i7 920 and overclocked them to 4.2GHZ (great CPUs that only stopped seeing use as the mobos died and were stupid prices) :D

[@dztechgamers7030]

Can you do a video on Phenom II X6, Phenom II X4 965, Core 2 quad 9650, Phenom II X4 955 BE C3 with games like Gta V, A Plague Tale Requiem, Resident 4 Re, The Callisto Protocol, DEAD Island 2, Forza 5, Street Fighter 6, Fortnite, Pubg, they all run on these processors, of course on low settings. Forgot it's best with gtx 960 and higher to ensure optimization

[@SpeedIng80]

Nice comparison, thanks for that! I have a Q9450 OCed to 3,2GHz in my XP-Retro-PC and would be interested if these later C2Q are even faster (or by how much). Do you have such one on hand?

[@jims_junk]

Thank you. Unfortunately not at the moment. I tossed out all my 'old' stuff over the years thinking I'd never need it........yeah I know. So im rebuilding my collection. I will though or something similar.

[@DualPerformance]

As an user of the Q8400 at 3.2 GHz in a retro pc, my next upgrade would be the Q9550, is not the more expensive of the platform, have 12MB of cache, and would be overclocked

[@Bubak777]

It is a few percent in favor for 45nm. Mainly thanks to the cache (12. 2x 6MB versus 8. 2x 4MB). Of course, energy consumption and overall operating characteristics are much better for 45nm (less cooling and so on etc.). The SSE4.1 instructions are also a big benefit. Actually, that's why I still use these 45nm processors in more modern programs. But in 32bit, or You won't feel it in XP era applications too much.

[@GTFour]

Check out the E6700, I had one back in the day and the thing clocked to 4GHZ with its 10x multiplier and FSB set to 400! It was crazy fast at the time lol

[@h1tzzYT]

Honestly if we consider the fact that q6600 had ~33% of clockspeed and ram speed disadvantage and arguably worse cache structure its very impressive showing even if we take old games into the account. Now i would urge you to start using msi afterburner benchmark feature including not only AVG fps, but very, if not more important, 1% lows and 0.1% lows into your testing suite as it tells the other half of the story - motion smoothness and consistency in video games. I think i kinda disagree with your conclusion, dont forget that you tested cpus with very different price ranges from different release dates. From this comparison my conclusion would be that core 2 quads were still superior choice for high end gaming rigs, which aged much better especially if you continued using them in early 2010's, where in many games core 2 duos started not only fall off quickly, but struggle very heavily just to even run at consistent ~50 fps range, EG in bf3.

[@h1tzzYT]

I think comparing q9400 vs e8600 would be much better as they were released at about the same time and they costed for about the same amount ~260$, the difference was cache structure 6mb on e8600 vs 2x3mb on q9400 and clockspeed difference of about ~24% in favor of e8600 (3.333ghz vs 2.67ghz) so it would have been much better scenario☺

[@jims_junk]

Welp keep an eye out, probably do an update and release a part 2 with those cpu's in the future. I had these here so figured why not give em a shot.

[@jims_junk]

I'm going to look into that feature, so keep an eye out in upcoming vids.

[@h1tzzYT]

@@jims_junk Thanks, just wanted to say that i love your vids :) I really like that you test these old cpus in both era correct games and in more modern ones, that way it gives better perspective.

[@jims_junk]

@@h1tzzYT Thank you. I appreciate that!

[@StaelTek]

I have the E8600. And it really gives a wuad a run for its money when overclocked. mine tops out at 4.75 GHz, or 4.6 GHz on aircooling.

[@10WA]

Pretty sure I ran my q6600 at a 1:1 ratio with fsb at 400. This gave me a solid easy 3.6ghz overclock with a Thermaltake V1 cooler. It was long ago so not sure. I recently found a q6600 used in original box for $30. Had to get it and put it on desk like I had done back in 2008. Sits next to my all my other CPU boxes from the past.

[@JoseLuiz-xo8yj]

Your VRM circuit is hot

[@Redmage913]

Still running an E8600 as my samba/plex/Jellyfin server. Way overqualified for the needed job, but I just can’t set this machine aside. For what it is, it’s wonderful and gives me zero headaches.

[@Redmage913]

Limited by the motherboard - Dell Inspiron 530s, so no quads and no overclocking :/

[@jims_junk]

Definately, as long as its not doing any transcoding a c2d is perfect for that. For transcoding you could just add a GT710 or some other similar older gpu.

[@inherentlyflawed]

Interesting fact, on the motherboards that didn't support overclocking, tape on a single pad on the q6600 increased the FSB significantly and clocks it to 3.2ghz iirc

[@Cognizance4]

Sse 4.1 kicks in for e8500, just like avx later, it changed a lot especially for the phenom vs quad2core benchmarks. Thats why the difference is not that high as you might expect. I changed my laptop to a similiar penryn intel cpu, and the difference was like day and night. Sse 4.1 had some speed especially for computing.

[@lanelesic]

Back then in 2008. my flatmate had the q6600 and he paid $600 just for the cpu so he was not gonna overclock it. I had an Athlon x2 4800+ that I got under $100 and only because the 6000+ black edition was too expensive for me. But back then in games I overclocked to 3.1Ghz and I was getting much better results especially in games that were aimed at single core high clock cpus like Virtua tennis 3. Whats even funnier was that I had a Radeon 3650 and he had a gtx 8800 gt, but for him some games would stutter at some settings.

[@Samey44]

Fallout 3 would be interesting because its only duel core optimized

[@gargolgaming8101]

i have these both except i got a e6600

[@BoyanZhelyazkov_theDoctor]

If there CPU hall of fame Q6600 should be there.

[@germangelv34]

Easy, Q6600, I have both processors. In Addition, Q6600 can support overclock and motherboards also support xeon with full cache version 771 that I have test too

[@chase7974]

It depends on what you're doing with it. The Duos have faster single threaded performance, as you can see it pulling ahead in games.

[@samoskvarenina4285]

E8500 is better because is on newer architecture and 45nm q6600 is faster but can run hotter because is on 65nm and also had higher tdp e8500 has 65w and 40-50 ° C in hp compaq and q6600 had 95w and 60-75°C in same pc.

[@crysishunter]

My Q6600 was able to run at 3.6GHZ, it was monstruous at that time and it last decade

[@eterniaaabadi1823]

back to 2006 OC e6320 1.86ghz up to 2.6ghz did same with e6700..lol everyone best cheap cpu

[@KabelkowyJoe]

What is point of 65nm Q6600 non OC if you have for cheap 45nm Q8400 and Q9300 both clocked 2.5GHz and SSE4 support, The only problem more modern Quads are FSB1333 dissalow OC, Other than that Q6600 should retire long time ago, shouldn't be no longer mentioned except during winter time to heat up your apartament. Nevertheless it seem to be still better option than duo. For example Pentium Dual Core E5800, E6700, E7500 and E8400 3GHz all are actually based on Core Duo Core's but with 1MB cache disabled, and lack of SSE4 you can OC E5800 FSB800 to 4GHz in reality on stock cooler runs fine 3.6GHz but that seems to be bad choice anyway only 20% faster. If you OC to 4GHz it's only 30% faster. To compensate 50% less cores. That would make sense in past to save 100-200$ not in 2023. Specially not during summer time.. To allow s771 Xeon run on your motherboard that is "fun" for 2023 ;) Cheap i3 on more modern platforms are better anyway than old duos. And then you can install i5 if you want I own also AM2+ platform with X4 640 that is neat CPU 3GHz it actually draw less power on Idle than x2 entire platform Radeon 6770 get less power than core 2 quad based 2.5GHz. If i was into gaming i would try FM2 32nm Athlons LLano stuff like that. Because it gives vibe of "retro" being old and "underdog" allow use od cheap old motherboards. And it was not based on Buldozer The only option IMO to make use of that old s775 still in 2023 are quads. Don't think for sec Duo will be able to provide better experience. I had Q6600 and Duos now everything runs on Quads. And it's only because i live in 3 apartaments (2 are not mine) and have keep 2x PC in each. Plus laptop. Im not that much into games. Only use of duo these days should be cap to protect socket when you sell motherboard. I would say fast duo vs oldest quad the choice is 50/50. Still quad wins after OC. Duo is fun only when you cannot install any CPU TDP higher than 65W - in mine personal opinion :)

[@KabelkowyJoe]

​@@TheZachMan-09 "Seems". Actually question wasn't adressed - instead he found answer to question - whenever more modern Duo can compensate lack of 2 cores when set against obsolete Q6600, by having SSE4, faster FSB and 2-3 years older architecture. Answer is - it can, some cases, but actually it cannnot. Better put that into trash. And like i said in first sentence - what is point to compare oldest quad 65nm (yet not slowest one) against 3 years newer 45nm Duo? Get yourself Q8300,Q9300, Xeon X5420 and put that Duo to trash. If question was properly adressed he would set older Duo against older Quad and more modern Duo against more modern Quad. Also he would OC Duo to 3.6 or 4GHz Pentium Dual Core like people used to do in past. This video has proven once again Q6600 that cost 2$ Q8300 cost 3$ to be much better choice. Than E8500 - for whatever reason cost 5$ it's newer it's 45nm it is clocked faster but it's crap. And there is no Duo that can beat oldest Quad. And my comment followed that route. So i don't understand your objections? Oldest question ever, 15 years old. My entire comment was focused on that exact problem. From practical point of view. So i don't understand your objections.

[@misterhoudi2824]

How did you overclock the quad? I want to overclock my q9550…

[@jims_junk]

An old trick to fool the motherboard into thinking it was a 1333fsb cpu. I did a video about it (although kind of lengthy). Problem is the q9550 is already 1333fsb, so your best bet is to find a motherboard that allows you to change the FSB within the bios.

[@misterhoudi2824]

@@jims_junk ah interesting, so that only works with 1066fsb only quads?

[@jims_junk]

Its been so long since I messed with these things full time. I believe you can bring an 800fsb cpu up to 1066 or 1333, or a 1066 up to 1333. This works on core2duos and quads. The pinout is the same so might be able to do it with a Pentium D as well, however they didn't overclock well so even if it worked..it would be extremely unstable.

[@erminc1891]

You have to take into consideration if the software takes advatage of all cores or just two of them. Than it's clear that the higher clocked cpu is faster if the app is using only 2 cores.

[@JOHNTECH112]

can you check out the amd fx vs intel core i series first gen?

[@jims_junk]

Absolutely, it's actually something I'm working on now

[@ottofonBehemotto]

SLACR Q6600 easly gets 400mhz fsb up to 3600MHz and costs less then 250$ in the end of 2007

[@DualPerformance]

a whole GHz above stock :D good times

[@ottofonBehemotto]

@@DualPerformance yeah, i build hundreds of these OC PCs

[@mbwoods2001]

Your comparing an older core2quad (65n) against a newer core2duo (45n), with its faster bus speed and extra features added.

[@jims_junk]

Exactly

[@bentechyt9052]

Request: Fast Pentium 4 vs slow Pentium D

[@Protoking]

Intel sure was stingy with increasing clock speed past the E8400 with each model up barely adding any speed. Topping off with the E8600 only reaching 3.33GHz.

[@jims_junk]

Yeah I dunno why either. Even the slower ones that you'd do the FSB overclock seemed to love it. Gotta admit the core2duos and especially core2quads were badass for their day.

[@korong_busuk]

e8500 is faster ( like a supercar ) q6600 is slower but more powerful ( like a truk )

[@icraftcrafts8685]

can the duo be overclocked too?

[@jims_junk]

Yes but the fsb is already at 1333 stock. So that means you would need a board that supports a higher fsb

[@elgranelectron5387]

I got an e8700 overclock at 4 ghz running Windows 98, start up to desktop takes 6-7 seconds. Not kidding.

[@Gy987654321]

this video somehow freezes my pc all the time at 0:35 incomprehensible how. And only this one video does that. magic?

[@jims_junk]

Make sure it's not set to 4k resolution.

[@MacroSword]

pov : budget cpu :