Fast Mana, Tutors, and when they make you a Tryhard

Obviously everyone in Magic has reasonable and levelheaded opinions about all this, I’m sure you will all agree.
#magicthegathering #mtg #mtgcommunity #cardgame #mtgcommander

[@rainmceachern7156]

what I've learned from this is that the term tryhard doesn't refer to someone who's trying hard. it refers to someone who's trying *harder* than everyone else at the table

[@maldhound]

True

[@dancingmathusalem5451]

In casual commander it's easy to tell who's a tryhard -Has their deck popped off faster than me? Tryhard cedh sweaty nerd -Has their deck popped off slower than me? Cool casual fun chad

[@Lightmagician60]

​@@dancingmathusalem5451 it you're popping off turn 8+ that sounds like a you issue... Now you say this, but realise, there is a CDH level that, players realise... "Win faster 5head" doesn't work very often... It will at most 1/4 times... If people have enough answers and interactions... trying to win turn 2~4 is good way to have Silence, swords, path, mana drain, swansong, ect thrown at you So these decks turn into a Mexican stand off, daring each other to shoot first, allowing what is just barely fine, as to let your opponent waste their interactions on things that effect them, but not you

[@SwedeRacerDC]

​@@Lightmagician60Not really, that's casual EDH with intelligent players. Decks keeping eachother in check until someone can finally pop off and take it all the way.

[@IvanKolyada]

@@SwedeRacerDCyeah, but I would call them “responsible” rather than “intelligent”. Hate it, when I have to be the only responsible player at the table - interaction draws to many attention sometimes, so you might get knocked out first.

[@AnonYmous-mc5zx]

"You're going to go through life thinking people hate you because you're a tryhard. I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that it's because you spent a small country's GDP worth of mana to wipe the board and not win the game."

[@davidbass4834]

Based Mald telling it like it is as usual.

[@ArclinusCastoral]

The real question is if tutors can get it. Of course they can, they can get almost anything. That's the point. :V

[@scipio6142]

lmao

[@user-ux9lo4ht3q]

It's the "almost" that is giving me pause. Is there any card the "search for a card" tutors *can't* find?

[@amazeinggames]

​​@@user-ux9lo4ht3q Speculation on my part, but he might be referring to cards like, Search for Greatness or Recruiting of the Guard, which only fetch certain types of cards. For example, if you're in a deck that's not running black, there's a decent chance there's not a card that can tutor the exact card you need, or would like to tutor, hence the '*almost* anything'

[@DAsrada]

I got called a CEDH player for playing a Malcolm and Breeches deck with a wincon of "evasive pirates attack with swords". That notorious cEDH all star... CLOUD PIRATES.

[@collinbeal]

LMAO. Pirates are shadow wizard money gang. Sounds like you played a Hostage Taker and they shitted themselves 😂

[@DAsrada]

@@collinbeal I equipped a Sword of X and Y to a bunch of Commander Legends uncommons and assorted evasive Pirates. The Commanders are Breeches and Malcolm.

[@B1gLupu]

One mana dudes + Culling The Weak do go pretty hard with Breach, especially stuff like Stitcher's Supplier.

[@Khronogi]

I thought that was going to be "a Malcom in the Middle Deck." And was going to just accept that was a thing.

[@Nr4747]

I'll have you know: "Flying Men" of any variety have probably commited more war crimes in Commander games than probably any other archetype of creature (except mana dorks).

[@polishhockeyfan]

Remember kids; Aven Mindcensor is a dollar, and if people call you "a filthy stax player" remind them that it dies to Gutshot and they should learn to run removal :^)

[@zyibesixdouze4863]

Playing green? Just fight it

[@pjgoldstein6562]

I think I have the perfect example of what he's talking about in a deck I currently can only play in proxy. I have designed a white black deck that uses almost every cheap tutor and fast man available, with the single goal of setting up The Cheese Stands Alone and then wiping my hand and entire board. If someone looked at that deck and called me a try-hard, I think I'd probably hurt myself laughing. But swap out the mana base for something that doesn't blow itself up and the win con with Anything easier and this deck would be super abusive.

[@collinbeal]

Luckily, you don't need to Rule 0 The Cheese Stands Alone because there's a commander-legal functional reprint of it.

[@arthursmit8468]

technically the cheese wins the moment the condition is met but yeah you can view barren glory as the errata'd legal version

[@pjgoldstein6562]

@@arthursmit8468 I own a Cheese Stands Alone and not a Barren Glory, so since it's one of the few cards in the deck that isn't mostly sharpie... But yes, I wait until upkeep as of it were Barren Glory... Which is why no amount of fast mana and tutoring can save me. But it's more fun to call it cheese stands alone even if it technically is a proxy for the less fun cards.

[@MedievalWerewolf]

I only run tutors as toolboxes, not game-enders. I grab a different card based on the current board state.

[@maldhound]

The perfect “casual” usage of them imo

[@whipstitchzombie]

seconded. i've dt'd for a land or rhystic way more than anything "scary"

[@TheNaturalnuke]

If I need to tutor for Sleep so the table can beat the elf ball player to death turn 5 I’ll do it

[@Kestral287]

I'm kind of on two minds here. On the one hand - I do tutor for the same set of cards pretty often. On the other hand - those are usually a ramp effect, a mana source, a board wipe, or targeted interaction. Sometimes a card advantage source if I'm really out of it. It's the same half a dozen cards, but most of the time Demonic Tutor actually reads "six mana Damnation".

[@sirKonradical]

Yeah same here. Hell, I've tutored for land before 😂

[@almeerok7950]

Reminds me of when a dude rocked up to my cEDH pod while we were waiting in our 4th. He had likely been called a "cEDH" player by the normal pods based on the fact that when we warned him he was like, "Oh cool, that's what I am playing, so that's perfect." Man proceeded to pull out an Ur Dragon deck that just wanted to play big dumb dragons and beat face, no infinites, no Thoracle, and the only real combo in the deck being a Dragon Tempest combined with Ur Dragon's ability to dump things onto the board. When the game ended on turn 3 to the Inalla player getting his Spellseeker line going he was upset at how he'd lost so quickly. None of us laughed or made rude comments about his deck or anything, but what we did do is help him realize that the tutors and fast mana he had in there didn't mean the deck was competitive, it meant it was high power and he could probably compete pretty well at a decently high level of play, but he wasn't playing cEDH. We also offered him other resources for what he could do with that deck if he wanted to make it cEDH, but in the end he left that game likely with a lot to think about including why his normal playgroup was saying he was playing cEDH. The whole experience just reminded me why I was so glad to be in a playgroup where our power level discussion started and ended at no holds barred, proxies are allowed because these cards are expensive, and play whats fun for you. Power level is incredibly divisive and the discussion of what is and isn't ok in a play group can feel really toxic if everyone isn't honest with what they're ok with.

[@pokecordthrowaway]

this kinda thing is why I like cedh no need for rule zero, and no feelsbads, because everyone has the same expectation: play to win as fast as possible you attack the izzet player because he opened sol ring crypt and ignore the ad naus player who looks to be stuck playing land go? Mr ad naus is going to dark ritual cabal ritual boseiju out an uncounterable ad naus and personally tell you that you should have attacked him this sort of power level discussion that is completely divorced from what cedh actually is hurts everyone involved and people being clueless, willingly or unknowingly, about deck powerlevel, is why I've stopped playing casual and only play cedh nowadays

[@B1gLupu]

@@pokecordthrowaway Thats a big reason why a lot of people like cEDH. Powerlevels are between 0-10 in normal games, but in cEDH it's either a 1 or a 0; Either a deck is cEDH or it isn't :)

[@Interrobang212]

Power level in commander is very nuanced, and thus, makes blanket statements impossible. My pet peeve is when people won't have the power level conversation about their decks. If Player 1 has a turn 2/3 combo, player 2 has a landfall that will always lead to an inevitable late kill, and player 3 has the goal of attacking with 6 power vigilance trample dudes, you're playing very different games.

[@paragonshadow]

I ask the following. Turns to win, Mass land destruction, Infinite or combo off, Proxies. These being the salt at most commander games imo

[@KyunaCookies]

You shouldn't even need to discuss proxies I'm facing your deck not your wallet

[@andrewb378]

@@paragonshadow turns to win can be wildly different for the same deck even at the same table just in different games because a lot of decks are very swingy. I have a Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle non-combo voltron deck. If I draw a jeweled lotus in my starting hand and drop Teshar turn 1, it's totally possible to just win turn 4. But if I don't have any mana rocks in my opening hand and I can't play your commander until turn 4, I might not be able to push for a win until turn 9 or 10 simply because people have the means to stop me *and* I have to "waste" time stopping them now too. Mass land destruction is a fine question to ask but I've never seen anyone play mld in person. Anecdotal, sure, but I also don't think mld is particulaly bad or "evil" as some would suggest. The problem is people who play mld and don't actually have a way for *their* deck to function without lands. It's honestly not that difficult to build a deck that can function without lands once you've gotten it off the ground. I have a Jan Jansen combo deck that has 28 lands and I've won games where my final board had like 4 or 5 on the field turn 8 or 9. With how many mana rocks and treasures that deck has, throwing in a few more counterspells and some mld might not actually be a bad idea. I wouldn't do that because I want other people to have fun too, but if I was strictly building for power, sure, why not? I personally love infinites but a deck doesn't have to go infinite or even really combo off for it to be much more powerful than the other decks at the table. I have a mono-green deck that's stupidly straightforward. It's got 10 or so permanent-based draw engines, half a dozen mana doublers, 30+ big chunky creatures, and 10-12 1-mana ramp spells that get my commander out turn 2. It's so painfully straightforward that it feels like it should just fold to some well-timed removal but unless you keep removing the important pieces over and over, bordering on bullying, it's just gonna pop off and win. It's a Kodama of the East Tree deck. It's not even really a "combo" in the classic sense. I just play big creatures that draw me cards that I play for free to draw more cards that I cast for cheap that draw more cards etc etc. At a certain point I basically just flip my library onto the battlefield and check to see if anyone has an instant-speed way to stop me. If they don't it's just gg. It's super consistent and most of the time would absolutely slaughter the Teshar deck from the first paragraph unless she draws jeweled lotus in which case... Teshar just runs it over. Proxies isn't necessarily a prediction of power. Sure, players using proxies could be more likely to use expensive cards, but they may not. Some people build for the power level they want and don't include really strong cards even if they're proxying simply because they don't want to. You should always check to see if your playgroup is okay with proxies before the game, and (in my experience) most will be, but just because someone is using proxies doesn't mean their deck is super OP.

[@theNightDice]

@@andrewb378 I agree that turns can vary, but if you tell me the range of the turns, I can definitely estimate the power level of your deck better than if you just tell me your deck is a seven. Especially since that swinginess in itself is part of the power level. If your deck consistently wins turn 4, that's much stronger than a deck that may win turn 4 if it absolutely hits the jackpot. My main issue with MLD is that it effectively forces you to restart the game and usually doesn't finish the game before resetting your lands twice or more. MLD decks tend to be super slow to finish the game out, even if they have some way to work around their lands dying.. Probably the reason why MLD is mostly an anecdotal thing. Infinites definitely depend on the consistency. Having one can be an indicator, but it also depends how well the deck is built around that. For example, I have a Rocco deck that consistently goes infinite turn 5 if nobody intervenes, but is super easy to stop with well-timed interaction (due to me not bothering to include stuff like Allosaurus Shepherd). It's still strong and consistent enough to be the boogeyman in most constellations of my regular playgroup. In my experience, a well-coordinated infinite combo deck will always be faster than aggro decks, so it does make sense to ask if there's one in there. I would just say that you should also ask how consistent it is. Agreed on proxies, although most people I've met who were using proxies are exclusively using them to get more expensive cards in their deck. Which is fine, not everybody has the same budget, but it does tend to increase the power level of those decks.

[@andrewb378]

@@theNightDice at this point just ask what the decks do to win. Don't bother with turns. My mono-white Voltron deck wins either by carefully feeding you swords until you fall over or replaying the same fog creatures from the graveyard every turn until I can find my swords and apply them generously. My mono-green deck feeds you these hands. If one of us isn't dead within 7 turns, consider it a miracle. I consistently play my 3-mana commander turn 2 and my 6-mana commander turn 4. If both are left on the field you will almost certainly be dead within 2 turns. My mardu treasure deck is a straight-up combo deck. There is a single beatstick that synergizes with my combo. Outside of that single card everything is designed to either keep you from killing me or win me the game. If you ever think I'm out of the game you are probably about to lose. If you let me untap with a single non-commander combo piece I will probably win on the spot. My grixis spellslinger deck is just a pile of generically good cards. I've got strong draw engines and plan to find a way to win either through pings whenever I draw, taking 4-6 extra turns, or through just casting insurrection twice. The only time you can stop worrying about me is if I'm literally incapable of casting spells, either because no mana, no cards, or no life total. My orzhov poison Phyrexians deck is a pile of moderately good Phyrexians. It can build up an army of incubators and wipe the board before storming the beaches of your life total or I can get an early poison counter on you and start very slowly grinding out the proliferate triggers. Neither method is very quick or consistent. I've never won a game with this deck against other players. Oh also there's a blightsteel but the only way for me to play it is by hard casting it. Conversations like these are way more productive than playing 20-questions to guess what people's decks are doing. Don't ask 5 different questions and guess, just say what your deck does and ask what theirs does. Most people will be more than willing to just tell you. We all love the decks that we've built and will absolutely tell you what stupid janky shit they do.

[@zbronstein3901]

I didn’t WANT to tutor for my Scurry Oak during my opponents end step and then proceed to go infinite and win during my turn thanks to my commander and Spawning Pit, but it was a paid pod and I would have lost if I didn’t. The timing of this short is impeccable however as I’m realizing and am tempted to add Eldritch Evolution to easily tutor for Scurry Oak. I don’t want to be a try hard and want to think Mald would want to play magic with me, but I also like winning my high power paid pods. I have a Rakdos shenanigans deck if I want to be more casual.

[@maldhound]

Yeah I mean, playing for money just start slinging shit and see who gets hit, do what you need to 🫡

[@theNightDice]

Agreed, if money is involved, just play the strongest deck and game that you can. No mercy. If people want friendly games, leave money out of it.

[@HeraldOfOpera]

The Hound's talking about casual play. If money's on the line you're either tryharding or dead in a ditch.

[@Rukalin]

I used to put tutors in my decks whenever I got my hands on them years ago but I've come to realize, I just prefer the chaos of drawing random cards. The two exceptions are my Temur Omnath Zombie tribal deck (copying Field of the dead as often as possible) and my Mairsil deck where I use tutors to search for my real commander, Mechtitan core.

[@sethb3090]

Secret commanders tech is based

[@Omnicloud7strife]

Pretty legit takes. I have decks with and without these elements largely to tailor my experience to the table and to what I want. Do we want a 5 turn game? I have a deck for that. Do we want a 15 turn game? I have a deck for that, too! I try to judge what people are looking for in their play patterns, ask what they’re comfortable with specifically (Crypt, Vault, Lotus? What about Desperate Ritual or Dark Rit?) and pick a deck from there.

[@maldhound]

Exactly, come strapped for multiple speeds and you will always have a good time

[@malachai1381]

​@@maldhoundThat's why I like my Niv Mizzet Reborn deck, built as a grindy midrange/control deck that can go faster or slower depending on what cards I have in it, since I keep a stable of 5-7 cards of each guild pair in a binder to change it up.

[@YourBoyNobody530]

In MTG I treat the Geneva Convention like a check list of things to do.

[@benvictim]

Played at a random LGS while traveling. Person called his deck a 6. Popped off with fetch lands into reserve list lands into tutors into almost a game winning combo at turn 5. I say almost cause a player after him farewelled his board (sacrificing his mana dorks) and then I Armageddon. He then scooped while everyone else at the table played the power level 6 game we wanted to do. His comment was that "he valued his time". Yeah but apparently he didn't value other people's time because of he did, ye wouldn't have lied or tried playing in the pod. We wanted a 10 to 15 turn game and he came in with a near budget less try hard 4-7 turn deck

[@dom6637]

Yeh I can't abide anyone who lies about their deck. I've sat down to play against people who's decks were quite a bit weaker than mine but mine is still combat based and can only really kill one or two people at a push but I told them mine was probably stronger. They gave me the benefit of the doubt then turn 5 it was a game of archenemy and they murdered me. It was an entertaining game for all but I think 80% of that was because I let them know ahead of time that chances are they'll need to murder me and then it became a game of who could scramble enough resources back once the dust settled.

[@kylecote7261]

This is exactly why the 1-10 rating is flawed. One player might know a dozen commanders, and think their deck *is* a 6. Same deck, knowing 250+ commanders, now it's a 3.

[@benvictim]

the 1 to 10 rating isn't flawed if people are honest. It's meant to be based on how fast your deck can consistently pull of a win. Not how strong you think the deck is. That player who thinks he has a six vs 12 commanders might be playing against other players with a 2-4, getting wins around turn 20. That's also why when doing the pregame chat, I also bring up how many turns do we generally want to go to. More people understand that then judging raw power level.

[@Trogdorbad]

I've encountered this sort of thing Once and heard about a second instance - the time it happened to me we were having pl6-7 game on spelltable (as in, not super fast but not 2 hours slow), me on my Piru deck (where i had to take 7 free mulligans because all but one had no lands, and the one with a single land was a banding land). This guy joins with a Moxfielded Animar deck that I'm pretty sure if we saw the list would have had more value than our three decks combined, and then he targeted me out of the game while I got nothing but bad draws and barely managed to get a Feldon on the board with nothing to make copies of in grave. The one I heard about was someone who went to their LGS and someone with a Rograkh/Ardenn deck sat down and told them his deck was just mid, the proceeded to win by turn 6 and no one else could do anything about it. Like, it's *casual Commander*, how sad do you gotta be to do stuff like that?

[@CommanderVizzerdrix]

This.... When someone has the game locked turn 5 and everyone else is just starting to come online we are not playing the same game at all. Also... my wife would kill me if I spent the amount of money required to build a consistent turn 1 mana base with tutors.

[@ketchumall8243]

Glad you looking at Sol Ring with the side eye. It's the most powerful bs we allow in commander. Right after Mana Crypt of course, but people know that's a try hard card. They don't treat sol ring like it's almost as OP as Mana Crypt is. Even though it is

[@manniebradley3768]

If you draw one turn one if not sol ring is ass

[@manniebradley3768]

There are far worst fucking cards than sol ring

[@ketchumall8243]

@manniebradley3768 lol no there isn't. Its one of the most powerful cards allowed. And it's still a great draw later in the game. Even it it's not as busted as turn 1

[@IvanKolyada]

I did not put it in my Chulane humans deck, because I just forgot to include it in the list/did not want to, amd it is just fine. Moreover, Chulane does not require any help either)

[@noahbruckmann671]

Every green deck I own run a Nature's claim specifically to blow the T1 sol ring up. It's my most cast card at this point

[@Caigga900]

After hearing your opinions, I'd love to get a game of commander with you. +1 for the inheritance cycle on your shelf.

[@maldhound]

I’ll be at MagicCon Vegas! Otherwise I do weekly streamed games with my discord, it’s a free raffle entry thing

[@Guevon_Pajaro]

I'm in your discord too and been around the raffles and stuff... Are they cam games or something akin to a platform like cockatrice where the cards are digital and free? Because I want to play too and the building challenges seem fun but I'm scared off by the price if it's physical / cam. I don't think the Ken's I've seen are paper, if I remember rightly it's digital somehow. I'll have to try to jump in next time on that raffle!

[@Guevon_Pajaro]

Also, I'll be at the PT too, hope to jam some games, it's on the bucket list! Obv you seem like one of the good ones in all the games I see you play (and your player philosophy) 😁💙

[@ashedelta]

The only time I run tutors is when drawing a single card is basically the point of the deck (meld commanders my beloved). Its nice to draw Mightstone and Weakstone more than once every 12 games when its the other half of your commander.

[@bradsimpson8724]

I have very few decks without fast mana(and none without Sol Ring) because they help you decks do what they're supposed to do. I used to play tutors and two-card infinites all the time, but I find that in the last couple years, I'm less interested in winning games quickly and more interested in the fun to be had while it's going on, so I don't really do that anymore. I still have a couple of two-card infinites that I use as backup win-cons in decks that rely heavily on janky Rube Goldberg machines, but it's not a common thing. We don't discourage any of these at our table, but a big selling feature there is our house "One Deck Wins" rule. Once you tutor up and pop off your infinite combo and win the game, you can't play that deck again that night. It allows players who do wanna do that stuff the chance to do it, without boring everyone else at the table watching you pull out your fourth win in a row the same damn way.

[@khaiqha]

Youre better than a thesaurus my guy. Gotta add goomba stomp to my vernacular.

[@Misch13f]

You've put into words everything I've been trying to get people to understand for years about fast mana, tutors, and effeciency in decks. It really comes down to comparative play and it's really hard to explain that easily to people

[@erikplumstead3413]

I love your videos. They always make me laugh and they are always on point. Keep it up maldhound.

[@AlledThundes]

I love how his long form videos are recorded in the same vertical format hahaha

[@ShinjiSixteen]

If you're gonna be making changes to your deck, and there is a group you regularly play with, just make sure to take turn zero Turn zero (or for TTRPGs session zero) is just everyone taking a moment to discuss expectations for the game, what's cool / what's not cool, so that way everyone goes in with equal expectations and in turn a lot less likely to have feel bad moments

[@chrayez]

I’m reminded of the Shuffle Up & Play episode where Prof asked everyone to bring “level 7” decks, but there was no communication regarding whether everyone was on the same page for what “level 7” meant. It’s implied the lack of clarity was intentional, but the constant jokes of “you consider *that* level 7?” definitely pointed toward the importance of clarity in turn 0 discussions.

[@OberynTheRedViper]

Honestly, if you want to play really inefficient decks based on some whim of a theme, it's on you to set up your own coterie of like minded players. Don't kneecap the entire group for your dream.

[@wickederebus]

​@OberynTheRedViper yeah, like asking my friends to build a theme like: Architecture, Romans, Shakespeare, and Powerwolf for a pod.

[@LordofMonies]

I'll forgive a Tutor when it's used as a contingency. Rather than tutor for the specific combo piece, have it instead in your hand for if the board suddenly demands a board wipe, mana ramp when you might have otherwise had terrible draws, or something to help you quickly recover from a bad situation. At that point it stops being a 'duplicate' of your win-con engine and turns into a one-shot multi-tool designed to maintain balance. That's very fair.

[@AquaAK723]

I was told my Myrkul//Primal Surge deck was too sweaty. It's my only deck (and one of the only in the playgroup) with no tutors, no mana rocks, no major sources of card advantage (it has an enchantress sub-theme, that's the win condition when Primal Surge flips). It's just a good old fashioned, 10 mana I win the game unless this gets countered (probably) and gosh darnit, I'm not even abusing ramp to get there!

[@user-dy1gk9yj6o]

Man's got that psychotic thumbnail energy. Smile says happy, eyes say murder

[@J.J.Spencer]

You basically described my first MTG game back in 20 years. I just got stuck at a table with three tryhards that didn't understand that fun isn't sitting there for six turns with their thumb up their ass and then saying game over.

[@iankane3732]

Seems that you fail to understand that fun is subjective. If all 3 of them were having fun and you were the only one who wasn't then I think the problem lies with you.

[@manniebradley3768]

​@iankane3732 commander is a kitchen table format go play pioneer or legacy is ballsweay sound like fun

[@iankane3732]

@@manniebradley3768 commander is an officially sanctioned format by WoTC with official rules and banlist, it's not a kitchen table format.

[@iankane3732]

@@manniebradley3768 also why do you assume I don't also play those formats? Am I only allowed to play one?

[@dancingmathusalem5451]

"Sitting with their thunb up their asses" Sounds like 50% of casual commander players, playing a pile of midrange cards one after the other while never attacking because that would be too mean. Or playing rats. Haha yes rats very funny and creative Meanwhile the "tryhards" are actually trying to interact with the board in order to set up a win

[@anjunakrokus]

Hard agree on all fronts, I would even add that tutors usually get the best card for that situation (that's kindof the point). Thus essentially every tutor that you add, almost per definition, increases the power of your deck (because it will get the best card). The swingyness of these "cEDH" cards is personally a bigger issue, when you see these highly efficient, powerful cards in lower powered-ish decks. It makes threat evaluation worse for everybody. If I have to keep in mind that you play 0-mana counterspells, mana-positive ramp, good tutors, and a combo (but the rest of the deck is kinda shit) then you will be still my priority target most of the time. Because even if you're doing nothing, the possibility of winning out of nowhere constitutes a bigger threat than what the rest of the table is doing.

[@Tuss36]

It's a nice thought to include tutors and intend to use them in a "toolbox" way, grabbing what's needed when it's needed. Need removal? Need to rebuild your board after a boardwipe? Whatever you need, it's there. The issue is that the solution to any problem you could have is player removal, and so getting your combo pieces, or best value pieces, is often the go-to tutor target most of the time, despite good intentions in deck building.

[@andrewb378]

I kinda like the swinginess of commander, because imo that's kinda the point, but it does make threat assessment really hard. I was playing a game the other day with Kess, Dissident Mage, Gilanra Caller of Wirewood and Kodama of the East Tree, Teshar Ancestor's Apostle, and Jan Jansen. The game was super swingy but won with Jan just kinda... ending the game outta nowhere. Early on Teshar looked like a threat because it's a Voltron deck that put Assault Suit on Teshar and started passing her around. Anyone who's played against that deck knows that extra commander damage stacks up fast. Teshar was killed, the assault suit was destroyed, and the Gilanra/Kodama deck dropped an Ezuri's predation to wipe the board followed by Jan throwing down a toxic deluge to wipe the board again so the mono-green deck wouldn't go sicko mode and kill everyone immediately. Then Kess gets The One Ring online followed by a Rhystic Study and a Time Warp and immediately becomes the threat. She quickly draws about half her deck but doesn't find a game-ending spell and just dies to her own ring. While the table was dealing with that the mono-green deck was back doing its thing and was about to pop off so Teshar got a couple swords and started beating it to death. Then Jan dropped a Razaketh with a reckless fireweaver on board, tutored for dockside, tutored for reanimate, and won the game with 18 treasures entering the field. There was basically no way for anyone to know that was going to happen, it just did. Threat assessment was basically impossible. Teshar was an early threat because she did something first and basically did nothing after the assault suit died. Mono-green made a massive board, got it wiped, drew into more gas, got wiped again, and died just before it would've likely popped off. Kess threw out OP spell after OP spell but when she died she showed off what she was drawing and it was basically all lands. She finally hit a wincon in Niv-Mizzet Parun but was out of gas by that point and just fell over. Jan basically looked like he was doing nothing all game. He played a few aristocrats pieces and drained the table a little. He even found goblin engineer but it and most of the aristocrats died before it could be used. The only combo piece that stuck for more than a turn was the reckless fireweaver that eventually killed everyone but with no other pieces on board it just wasn't really an immediate threat. All that being said, swinginess is the point of commander. It's a 100-card singelton format. The whole point is that this isn't modern or vintage where the game is over turn 3 or 4 the same way every time. The point is to have fun with magic, not to build the most streamlined, game-winning, soul-crushing deck possible. Tutors, especially in decks that fall into the "battlecruiser" category are boring AF. The only thing more boring is sitting around for 3 hours because nobody's drawn craterhoof with their one card per turn yet and everyone's afraid to swing because they'll just die on the crackback. Some decks just can't function without tutors, and some games don't end without tutors.

[@anjunakrokus]

@@andrewb378 I would argue that there are 2 scales of swinginess. Large scale swinginess in apparent power level (and thus play pattern) that happens because it usually functions as a bad deck, but has a couple of extremely powerful cards that can warp the entire game around them when dropped early. Small scale swinginess because cards are roughly equally powerful even if they do different things. An example of the first type would be a really janky, slow, battlecruiser deck, but it also plays 1 or 2 powerful cards like Black Market Connections (MBC). If that deck plays against other janky battlecruiser decks, then it will basically win if it plays an early BMC because they can't deal with it. If it plays against decks that can deal with it, then it can't win at all, because it is too slow and janky. This is a problem, and in my opinion bad deck building. Small scale swinginess still offers you a wide variety of different cards (which of your finishers do you get, which tribal creatures, etc). I agree that this swinginess is the point of Commander. The "ohh what am I going to draw", but not the "damn didn't draw this one card from my 99, so I can't win against these decks" stuff.

[@Quicksilvir]

I perhaps need to sharpen my deck planning, because when I heard 7 mana and green I ended up getting distracted thinking about Pelakka Wurm.

[@_syllvir_]

Day 21 asking for Urtet, Remant of Memnarch

[@benvictim]

I will give you a thumbs up for my little myr bro

[@NeoSlimey]

You'd best comment on the tiktok brother I hit every video for like 3 months

[@zefereater4741]

I love when Maldhound politely and cordially calls out people

[@johnfairweather7012]

At my local shop we all kind of try and find the weird resolve mechanics. So sometimes it looks like we are tryharding but really it's just us using 6 mana to bring out a wall of mushrooms and just bury you in funny situations

[@AdHocWholius]

I was once accused of being a no-fun tryhard because I won over the course of 10 turns by simply hitting people in the face with assassins in a removal-heavy Assassin Lord deck, said player accusing me having at least three infinite combos in his deck and mutliple ways to pop off into the cat oven loop. Including all the fast mana. No tutors, no fast mana, just throwing mediocre unblockables at someone until I won. Sometimes people just like to complain about the smallest things since they expected to win off playing poorly

[@siosilvar]

Indeed. I've had people get mad about winning on one turn with a Niv-Mizzet, Parun from my command zone and two cycleable mana rocks in play. Probably the worst deck I ever built because it was literally just Niv, other Niv, 3 copies of Curiosity effects, Dizzy Spell, 10 mana rocks, 10 counters, and 34 draw spells. I had 12 mana in fricking Izzet, it's not my problem you lost to a combo that was 2/3 in front of you already.

[@Rosta720]

I really like your videos, you make me laugh a lot, thank you for doing that.

[@maldhound]

Thank you 🙏 I am glad you enjoy them

[@ionstriker9342]

man i swear the place i play varies wildly. one second me and some others are goofing around and im just playing myrs while the others poke at each other with sticks. and the next game my entire deck is shut down by counterspell, board wipe, and elesh norn city. its a wonderful time.

[@varsoonhks3211]

Pop off for real. My favorite thing about the format is that it is variable. Putting 8 tutors in your deck so you can always flop the same combo for win is a surefire way to make me want to knock you out of the pod every game.

[@Sirix8472]

Now I want Mald to review one of my decks.

[@madazander]

I totally agree with you man. As a regular cedh player, I would say, if you want to play these high power cards, give cedh a try. It might be for you. There’s no reason to hate on it, it is at the end of the day the same format just cranked to 11. But if you are playing casual, then yeah just talk to your playgroup and see what they think as a way to determine if you should play these cards.

[@gaige8383]

Nothing will stop me from adding sol ring to every deck I have

[@maldhound]

Prepare to be naturalized

[@hubertnordvall5837]

@@maldhound Probably the most fair removal(and response) to sol ring there is lol

[@gayMath]

I play on tabletop sim with friends so us putting tutors in every deck probably feels less bad because our shuffling isn't real, but the fast mana and some of the tutors can usually be kind of used as a rough dial to control the power of a deck without fucking it up too much. like so often I use the full support package in my weakling decks (kruphix big mana big card draw group hug card draw with an everyone draws so much wincon, ramos "35 transforming cards and 3 meld combinations" needing a nitro boost to do anything at all, Errant street artist deck that has never won, etc.) a middling amount of support package in my middling decks in ways that usually synergises with the deck (vampiric tutor but no demonic tutor in the top of deck decks, bonus thematic ramp in expensive commander decks if i can help it, and overusing long term-plans because I really love the card and think it's full of flavour) and really only what I couldn't figure out how to ditch without screwing everything up in my (for the group, at least) powerful decks honestly tutors are a big "trust yourself" deal because they can make for more comeback potential if you decide to only use them that seriously in comeback situations, and otherwise use them to get silly cards for the current situation, or they can be used to help add back consistency after you add some card(s) that truly in all likelyhood will never help you, but the hope that they someday will is very tempting (looking at you, jester's mask in my glissa the traitor deck)

[@MrDegan2]

I genuinely think both these things would have a much better reputation/not be considered try hard if the price point for them was lower. if you rock up to our weekly causal commander games having dropped mana crypt and jewelled lotus money you're damn right I'm giving you side eye

[@tinton25]

I thino the most important part a lot of people are sleeping on it thr point made that just because your deck isnt CEDH doesn't mean people will want to play with you. Its important to a) have a good attitude when it comes to the match, and b) find a table that have matching preferences for what a game should look like. In DND we called it a session Zero, where players got to talk about what was expected and acceptable. If no one wants to face Group Hug then no one play it, if Superfriends gets Vetoed then no super friends. At the end of the day we're here to have fun and just because your fun is different doesnt make it or you bad, just a bad fit for a particular pod. TLDR: Talk with the other players in your pod like adults to determine if everyone is on the same page of what is fun.

[@natezabinski5615]

I feel so called out. I just want to tutor up Maskwood Nexus and turn on all my lord abilities.

[@Solorogue91]

Totally unrelated, I appreciate you having the inheritance cycle on your bookshelf. Man of culture outside of magic right here.

[@KiirloNaidel]

My personal sweet spot is somewhere in-between "upgraded precon" and "high-power" casual commander. I want to be doing fun things by turn 5, but probably won't win until closer to turn 10. I also eschew tutors (aside from land-ramp spells) in all of my decks, because they completely defeat the purpose of a 100-card singleton format. The only exceptions I have to that is that I have a Tasha deck with a reanimator package that includes a small handful of cards like Entomb, and my Kalamax deck has Invert//Invent to possibly find the wincon before Archmage Emeritus draws me to death, but those are my two most powerful decks (and I always ask if the table is okay with me playing them before I even pull them out. Rule 0 is important)

[@Lightmagician60]

The Thessa's Oracle player laughing untill someone lets them exile their deck with demonic consultation.. only to have the Thoracle Stifled or disallowed

[@Psycchan]

i play a couple tutors here and there but i also play wacky 5+ card combos so my tutors are more for finding whatever fits the current state of the game and hopefully getting me to where i can do something silly rather than winning the game outright

[@professorpantherhardraad3921]

Well said. You should be looking at me sideeyed if I put 3 lands into play on the same turn and do nothing. But if I am honest about my flooding plz don't hurt me, I have a 7 mana commander and a deck that doesn't work if it's not out

[@simonteesdale9752]

To be fair, I see a deck that is that linear as just asking to get your commander oublietted, or run over by aggro before it can do it's thing. (Especially if said deck is skimping on interaction in order to go off faster/better).

[@UbrShadow]

It aorta depends on the tutor, enlightened tutor is used to hit many useful cards. Tutors that allow you to search for anything is basically a second copy of any card in your deck and many casual commander players only see that as you being a try hard CEDH player. BTW yes I have a try hard combo deck, the deck name is All Hail Bolas on tappedout. Grixis with ravager as the commander, and yes. I use the tutors only to look for game ending combo pieces. That is what they are for.

[@imurt3417]

I use tutors only to take Worldfire just to feel the shear terror running through everyone's spine, including mine

[@pitadude9836]

I used to (moved out of State)have a play group that would habitually over extend on the board, so I made a control deck with that ran enough board wipes to counter becoming arch enemy, but was generally slow enough that I could die to being whittled down. I "feel" like it helped the other players be a little more conservative and not just put everything out on the table. In this same play group I then realized they didn't run much enchantment removal so I made an "enchantment tribal" ephara pillow fort deck. I say all of this to say that "countering" your playgroup is not, by itself try hard. It's more how you go about it that makes you try hard

[@jackehstil7945]

I prefer to play double mana or more as my ramps of choice... most just so happen to effect you to.

[@justinanderson2631]

I think sometimes Tutors can be interesting when they're used for "Secret commanders" or getting that one creature you want to mutate onto.

[@SapphireArcana]

Be the shanna purifying blade player, spending all my mana to draw all my cards to have beeg hand (:

[@scottclark3761]

I use tutors for two things. Either getting a combo piece, and I do have one degenerate Combo deck. Or to get pieces of board control in my five color control deck. That's about it. The five color control is a slow board control game. Once set up, my fortress is nigh on impenetrable. But hard to set up. I make no aggressive moves, so get ignored a bit unless someone is really paying attention to the fact that my board is slowly becoming untargetable and indestructible. In which case, I have no salt about the idea that someone decides to interact with what they can, while they can. If you don't....well, it's a long game until I pull a win con. The tutor in that case is a mercy.

[@weferin]

Once again Humbly requesting Mommy Titania (Nature’s force specifically). She is just everything I love about green distilled into one hot package. I haven't counted the days I have asked for this but it's been a bit. Much love from the Jund Collective

[@amahrle2767]

Listen, I just happened to pull those copies of Demonic Tutor in the couple packs that I opened so of course I am going to use them. Yes I tutored for Traverse the Outlands, or Yargle and Multani in my Yarok deck. Yes I am about to shit out a lot of lands and get like a billion landfall triggers.

[@herohades2230]

Always go with the tried and true metric for whether your deck is a tryhard: Ask your regular play group. Most of the time you're probably not gonna roll up against randos at your LGS, you're gonna be playing with the same group of people consistently unless you literally pack up your life day in and day out. My group will throw anyone out the window if they play slivers and will cream themselves over combo decks with weird janky wincons, but those same standards can, and often are, flipped for other groups. Just ask the people you play with what they do and don't like and you'll be good 100% of the time.

[@valteine]

For the last half o the video my eyes were drawn to the backwards text by your head. Nehpets Knig.

[@Tleilandrek]

I have a four hundred dollar landbase/ramp package in my shagrat deck, which is over 2/3 of the total value of the deck. It has tutors too but what do i tutor for every game? Bludgeon brawl because it's funny. The deck is a massive pile of really good cards that ultimately doesn't actually do anything.

[@quickaswink]

Its all about knowing who you play with. I have a Diabloc Tutor in my deck to get my infinite combo just in case I'm getting stomped. But if I'm not, I'm just going to use it to get a fun card because I just want to see everyone's deck and enjoy the game

[@Interrobang212]

My philosophy is build for fun, but play to win. Holding back plays is just sandbagging/ drawing out the game. I like to have many multiple decks so I can match the table's mood (thank god for proxies)

[@Svefngengill]

@@Interrobang212 I'm with quickaswink. I don't play to *lose*, but my main game plan is doing cool stuff. So while there might be an optimum card to tutor for, I'd rather tutor for whatever fun play I feel like making happen.

[@Zen-708]

@@Interrobang212I love this philosophy as someone who mainly plays CEDH this is the mentality I build casual decks with. Basically what is the dumbest thing I can do? Okay how do I make it playable. And boom fun deck.

[@IvanKolyada]

What about not playing tutors in casual environment? Instead you can be playing multiple card draw engines/spells. I do have a Kess combo-deck, but it has no tutors at all, and only one 2-card win-con (dualcaster+twinflame) - seems somewhat fun.

[@Svefngengill]

@@IvanKolyada A casual environment, especially now with power creep where it's at, still requires answers to threats. A tutor can in those circumstances be considered a "universal answer" to any threat. And consider what you're saying, "I don't have any tutors in my *combo* deck". You're still playing a deck that is looking to churn through the library and getting an instant win. Where in lies the difference between a deck that efficiently churns through the deck every game to find it's combo pieces with card draw, and one that tries to tutor for them? Is Chulane a less powerful all-in-one commander if you don't play tutors in the deck? If a mono black player with a wonky gimmick deck plays a tutor, is he more tryhard than a Simic player that has a deck full of insane value engines but no tutors? It's all about perspective. Tutors matter less than how they're played when it comes to determining how casual they are.

[@cyborg98]

This is why I primarily play on PlayEDH. Curated power levels off Battlecruiser, Low, Mid, High, and Max and they require instant speed interaction means I never really find an uneven game.

[@ACertainGuy0]

I have tutors and fast mana in specific decks, usually for very specific reasons. I do not slap vamp tutor/demonic tutor in every black deck I make, cause i know i would in fact be searching for that 2 card combo win or that 1+commander combo win. The decks that I DO however play them in are usually decks that rely on a specific card/set of cards for the deck to function properly and they are NOT the commander. ex. My Tergrid Group hug deck (yes, you read that correctly, no I will not explain lol.) runs 5 tutors because I want to have as many "copies" possible of my hug cards since mono black lacks the majority of the hugs cards, and most of them are artifacts. My Darien, King of Kjeldor deck runs mana crypt and vault, not because they are fast mana, but because they cause self-harm, which Darien cares about alot. They just happen to have the added bonus of being fast mana. My Jadzi, Oracle of Arcavios deck runs crypt and vault as well as the deck's entire goal is to power out an 8 drop commander and any form of ramp helps to get there. The rest of my decks either run 0 to 1 tutors and the rest dont run any fast mana (even sol ring, ive dropped it entirely cause its just a dumb card). Knowing when and where to utilize a tutor/fast mana can really differentiate between being a tryhard/cedh player and just trying to make a functioning deck.

[@Aellef]

No, but frfr, got a link for the Tergrid list? I'm extremely curious about it

[@skykur]

I’m not a cedh player but some of my friends are. I enjoy playing games against them. I always had the mindset “if you’re not trying to combo off, at least run the tools to stop other people from doing so”

[@tefnutofhoney2832]

A good summation, one card alone, even as commander, cannot make a deck tryhard. Let alone cedh. Whether or not you fit those bills is something based on the totality of your deck. Im not a war criminal for owning bleach and ammonia. Only when i combine them and release the resulting mustard gas on enemy lines do i get that distinction

[@Oxygen1004]

I recently pulled a demonic tutor and Jeweled lotus and put them in a Carth deck that I was building, I usually build fun yet bad decks like Narsetti spaghetti tokens (hideous board states to make everyone else's brains hurt), Tazri turbo flicker (very frail combo deck that either makes 10 creatures to mill or damage you), and precons. The SECOND I started doing more then just "I use this niche card to do something cool" they call my deck try hard because they let me resolve a Vornclex followed by an unconterable Tevish

[@mikem7662]

Agree Mald. I'm in the camp that if Wizards printed Sol Ring as many times as many crypt it would be a $150 card, and it would behoove us to treat it as such. I've seen Sol Rings warp more casual games of commander than anything else, but every precon has one so the abuse is normalized haha.

[@ryanmercer3165]

I often give myself a constraint when I build a deck, then try and build the best thing I reasonably can with that constraint. I have a Liliana Tribal deck, which runs 8 liliana planeswalkers and aims to win by Liliana's contract with 4 different demons on the field (I once rise of the dark realms back all the demons to win with the contract, it was beautiful). I feel no guilt running demonic tutor (liliana art obviously) and cabal coffers in a deck if what I'm trying to do is ridiculously complicated. I have an Adrix and Nev token deck, with no haste enabler (so I make a billion tokens but everyone has a turn to do something about it, funniest answer being Rakdos charm). I'm now building an Aragorn deck, where every creature has to be a Lord of the Rings legendary.

[@RavenDravenek]

You can’t call me a tryhard for always tutoring the same card when that card is Howling Mine

[@jigstraw2809]

howling mine is a win con disguised as group hug in my Orvar deck.

[@jeremy1392]

I saw it put in a reddit comment best: "You tutor for Thoracle, I tutor for Parhelion II, we are not the same." I tutor for sunforger to tutor for bloodforged battleaxe to equip a copy to each of my creatures so that with enough copies I can feel I'm getting value out of Reckless Crew for the first time.

[@Crockist]

Been taught this game by a Talrand player who either takes me on a 2 hour journey of me not being able to play the game or kills me when I can actually do something. Hell yeah I'm a tryhard.

[@TaosoftheVoid]

Tailor your decks to the expectations of your group. If you play at your lgs then maybe make a casual fun deck and something tryhard like so you can just ask when sitting down "are we playing casual or something tougher?" I do this and have only had good results. For friend groups, it's easier since you can all agree on a ban list. Don't have friends? Well, this hobby happens to be good at introducing you to people!

[@greasley4024]

I just wanna say, I see Stephen King on your shelf, and I too love the Gunslinger/Dark Tower series

[@sirKonradical]

😂 the cards in my animar deck could be considered "cedh" but the whole point of the deck is to get out krenko and make him create red elves

[@manniebradley3768]

Krenko making elves is the kinda of blasphemy I live for

[@sirKonradical]

@@manniebradley3768 I use a spell called "artificial evolution"

[@sirKonradical]

@@manniebradley3768 I call the deck "red elveses"

[@sirKonradical]

@@manniebradley3768 youtube.com/@IgorAndRedElvises?si=mWnAM2PJsKHt8NHN That's my inspiration

[@WolfieMemo]

I do run all the possible tutors and all the high mana rocks but I am playing an orzhov lich deck, and yes the main idea is to always be at 0 life with cards that make me hard/impossible to die to combat/lifeloss but one rift or exile all enchantments turns me into bone dust, I hope that's acceptable ; )

[@MusicalMethuselah]

That sounds so on-theme for Orzhov it hurts haha, I love it

[@MusicalMethuselah]

Do you have a decklist? That sounds like a lot of fun.

[@AlexofZippo]

Honestly I’ve pulled a couple of demonic tutors and while it’s a lot of fun to have them, I don’t feel right putting them in my decks because the chances that someone else has even one is low at best. I’ll happily throw a diabolic, grim, or profane tutor in a black deck because having that wild card is too much of a godsend to pass up. That’s really how I tend to judge such cards; yes to hardened scales, no to doubling season. It’s about bringing a knife to a knife fight, and a gun to a gun fight.

[@mrtalos]

Me here with a red green deck that plays incredibly expensive spells and has lots of land ramp. It just wants to go full Timmy, turn sideways and stomp you to death.

[@deafengineer]

I feel so called out by how he said Temur "spends 10s of mana to do nothing". I just like Magus Lucea Kane and the Ravenous ability, and making multiple copies of X spells and +1/+1 counters. I like to say I just have my deck balanced in such a way that "6 of my mana is equal to 2 of yours" at the table. I kind of built the deck to actually use that as the "balance". If they let me get 3 castings of X=4 "Open the way" and I get 15 lands, it took me 5-6 turns to get there, that's on them. And yes, I'm coping.

[@Lismakingmovie]

the 7 mana thing is funny to me because i just built a szadek voltron mill deck which doesn't even get started until i get him out. it's not good, obviously, but it's a lot of fun.

[@iron666221666221]

that’s why i only use shitty tutors like “beseech the queen” and yea obviously it’s because Oona can get it

[@andrewgamlin7371]

Tutoring for basics because its mono black ramp or the board wipe if the table needs it

[@EvanFarshadow]

PLEASE do Krark the Thumbless (alongside his best friend and Partner, Sakashima of a Thousand Faces)

[@CommanderVizzerdrix]

This is honestly my opinion as well. Tutors are going to do one of two things always, answer the board usually with a wipe or a C-rift in which case we all get to restart the game when it could have ended (especially when these rear their ugly heads on turn 8ish) or you thought you could quickly sneak your win condition out of your deck without playing the game like the rest of us. Possibly even taking the win from someone who played the game better. As for the fast mana... You either gain an advantage so great that the game was over because you put rocket fuel in the tank turn one or you elect yourself as archenemy turn one and proceed to gaping phase. In casual commander these cards don't seem to work out well either way. People that bring fast mana and combos to a casual pod designed for 7-10 turns might as well hold 3 people at gunpoint and force them to watch them play solitaire. Accomplishes the same thing really.

[@lordawillo1019]

Man, I'd love to play a game of magic with this guy, the tryhards in my area are whooping my ass

[@nasur86]

ive used a diabolic tutor to go search for a land one time. Since, I was getting mana screwed

[@ZackofSpades]

I'm a flavor player. I like my decks to look like a tome and my games to feel like I'm casting spells and summoning monsters. The second I can no longer imagine what this arcane battlefield looks like because board-states and combos start taking precedent in higher level play, I lose interest.

[@AutkastKain]

I have been building a lot of decks because i took apart the ones that I've had built since pre-2020, and with the new ones, i cut Sol Ring everytime cuz I'm tired of seeing it and i wanna be the change i want in the world

[@glitchycabbage]

I sure wish cEDH didn't have a stigma and more people gave it a chance. I also wish people would just allow proxies if it's not a tournament setting.

[@adamgarcia5616]

Facts my man, the cards themselves aren’t so much an issue. I judge based on number of infinite loops or instant win cons in a deck…had to tell somebody with A 2000 dollar deck that it wasn’t really suitable for casual play lol

[@Byteside546]

My pod switched to proxies, and we decided to ban sol ring (and it's friends), the one ring, rhystic study, smothering tithe, and 1 Mana tutors. Turns out it makes games of commander actually playable (for us) and more fun for all 4 people consistently

[@Kairoi89]

Niv-Mizzet turn 3 is pretty slow for me. 😂... I have a combo to get him down as early as turn 1, without discarding your whole hand. But I love the commentary. I find your videos hilarious.

[@tinosdragatsis]

I always go with when is the earliest turn can your deck win? What are the infinite or very powerful combos? How do you get those combos? What do you tutor? If you win before turn 6: too fast and too tryhard.' If you win turn 7- 9: very strong deck. If you win turn 10 and later, good casual. If no infinite or strong combo pieces: casual/ perhaps too casual but casual. If no tutors, casual. If tutors, don't get combo pieces or if you do get combo pieces, make sure it is turn 8 or later. If you tutor any card besides a combo piece, casual.

[@BeaglzRok1]

Mald: "If you're using your tutors to get the same card every time, you're the tryhard" Me, playing 1v1 EDH against my friend using one of his decks and casting Eternal Witness so I can get back my Krosan Grip again so I can remove his turn 4 Urabrask flip-enchantment again on turn 6 before the Mono-R deck draws and plays 20 burn instant/sorceries next turn: [worried look] I think the line is found in the difference between trying to win and trying not to lose. Both decks were made by him, so it's not a manner of one person being better at deck construction. Despite having his non-commander engine up, he kept fizzling by drawing redundant creatures 0-1 power creatures that burn when I/S are played and can't swing through my Gruul wall of meat, instead of anything to finish me from Bolt range. After all of that on something like Turn 10-11, I only won that game because I got out a Hasted Fathom Fleet Swordjack in a Jolene Treasure deck and stacked the attack triggers to burn him for exactly with all the Academy Manufactor tokens. And of course, the only reason I went for the win was because IF he had a card that either burns or draws into burn, I lose next turn. That being said, he's more tryhard than me. He has a playset of Smothering Tithes and Vampiric Tutors to put one in any EDH deck he wants, my (completely virtual) EDH deck(list)s round out at the Llanowar/Fyndhorn/Mystic playset and Shalai and Hallar comboing with Gleam of Battle and average around Cabal Lore Tribal.

[@ChillyJack]

You don't need tutors if you're drawing your entire deck like a good Izzet player

[@treenwalker8837]

One of the ways I describe my Jund deck is, yes, it does have tutors and fast mana. Am I gonna be using that on big dumb cards? Yes the cascade lottery? Oh yeah. Every Vraska every printed? I may have a problem.

[@Tanka036]

Me looking at the handful of fast manas in my naya dino deck

[@MarvTheMadKing]

My only real consistent tutor is using primal command to look for Hollowhenge Overlord in my Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves deck. Wanna make all the little howlers

[@hyotum798]

idk i built this voltron deck and added solaflora to it from unfinity (extremely funny card) and i needed another card to throw in to make the 100 count so i threw in a search for glory, which just allows me to search for any legendary thing in my deck (most of my creatures and quite a bit of artifacts, mainly from lotr and kaldheim) Typically, i choose what to grab depending on the game. like sometimes i might grab mithril coat or anduril or another artifact that will help me win the game. But other times if im feeling mischievous i grab solaflora and attach all my equipment to her to make all of my creatures have those same effects.

[@glyphic1855]

The only deck I'm currently running tutors in is my Rivaz dragons reanimator deck, where I use Entomb and Unmarked Grave. I use these two only because they offer my opponents another way to interact with it (exiling the yard), it's flavorful for my commander, it limits my tutors to my dragons, and I always get the choice between 5-7 dragons depending on my board state (Utvara, both Kolaghans, Ganax, Tyrant's Familiar, Ancient Brass Dragon, etc.). I don't think I've tutored the same dragon more than three times in the past two months :)