I Finally Understand Edgelords.

[@FDSignifire]

Yall Hank Green is NOT problematic lol i love Hank thats what makes it funny. I wouldn't be here without him. Please don't read to much into the list if you know you know

[@ElliotButch23]

Legit you had me scared Hank had done some shit I hadn't heard of yet. You got me good

[@wisconsincows1212]

Looking forward to the 3 hour video breaking down that whole tier list

[@RashidYCK]

Fiq, would you ever consider being a guest star on a blerd w/out fear live to laugh about the silliness of fandom who don't understand these pop male figures? Specifically the nerds of culture pod that blerd does w/ his friend robo. Think you 2 would connect really well, just think about it

[@JesseHenderson-xc2kg]

Yeah, we gotta talk about Movie Bob lol

[@antondalemma5484]

Of topic FD. It is amazing to see one of the most brilliant minds of our time over mixing it up among us humble folk in the BLM chat this morning. Huge respect, Maestro.

[@alexxx2417]

im the woker baby

[@ellodianlamb]

“Why so queerious?”

[@zainmudassir2964]

​@@ellodianlamb I like the puns

[@StanSeder]

Im a worker baby

[@sargerules20]

I like you

[@hauthot287]

Why so wokeious Batman?

[@mortegon583]

"That smug satisfaction of being right is getting us killed" is such a banger line that really perfectly sums up my own frustration with especially online progressive spaces. Everyone wants to be good and right, but so few people actually want to put up where it counts

[@Talentedtadpole]

So feel this. Seeing this play a huge part in the result I expected then the same folks doubling down plus cos playing resistance and talking oxygen from minorities and more expert and experienced people and spaces is terrifying and heartbreaking.

[@Hasselia]

It's messed up how all my lecturers in uni ask practically BEG the class to ask questions. Everyone has learned, especially the younger folk, that if you speak up and incorrect, you'll receive social sanctions for it. I think there's a lot of unspoken trauma from an authoritative education system that smarmy folk unknowingly tap into. By looking like the smartest person in the room, they're essentially pretending to be like those same guardians everyone had for 6 hours every day for 18 years. Marginalisation via education. Reinforcement of class & patriarchy. The annoying thing about this of that I love to learn & teach from others, but as equals. Nothing I say is the final word. Nothing HAS a final word & people don't know how to engage with that without marginalising via dunking or thinking "discourse" is short hand for "Twitter drama." The trolls have gotten mainstream. It's time we taught kids to stop feeding them.

[@mayome]

in my experience, the loudest people on twitter are also the ones the least willing to do organising work. especially if it's hard, long-term and you cannot post abt it. and gods forbid you have to engage with people you don't *fully* agree with, or need to try to understand or empathise with them. i've said this before and i'll say it again: it's so much easier to organise with liberals than with leftists, and until the latter do some hard self-reflection on why that is, the world will keep looking like it does.

[@lararys7765]

Anyone else feeling like this kind of thinking starts in schools? Like with grading?

[@faithg7750]

@@Hasseliathis is a fabulous comment and really makes me reconsider some of the things that I’ve been prioritizing in terms of “intelligence.” Thank you!

[@loglorn]

Queerbaiting is out, sigmabaiting is _IN_

[@normandy2501]

I've been from disassociated with those people for so long that I forgot what sigma even meant for a sec.

[@nibblesnarfer]

What the hell is Sigma

[@kronos7110]

@@nibblesnarfer It's a mother named Sig? Sig, ma?

[@khrashingphantom9632]

Considering the frat FD is apart of it’s on brand. 😉. Lol

[@sarahelko]

Oh boy, I have a lot to learn

[@mothersbasement]

One really great piece of Counter-propaganda is the only season of The Promised Neverland. It has a very similar conceptual starting place to Attack On Titan, except the monsters are inside the walls and in fact the whole inner society is just set up to feed them. the key to escape is the very special protagonists realizing that the competitive education system that singles them out as special is part of the trap, and they can’t do a revolution alone, no matter how special they are. That said some liars might try to tell you there’s a second season. Do not under any circumstances listen to them

[@Sandcat]

That sounds cool. Thank you for the recommendation

[@chibao4522]

there is indeed no season 2

[@kumowing4520]

Oh shit I did not expect to see you here

[@klackbyrne]

More like Mother's BASEDment!!!

[@kordeliiius9821]

I mean if you wanna ignore how the revolution progresses and twists itself in knots, then sure, don’t watch season 2

[@quocanhnguyen7275]

FD Signifier is in his insane thumbnail era

[@NStarks007]

I really wish I can clean my brain

[@milkboy195]

​@@NStarks007Same haha😭

[@bsballlord]

its just a regular thumbnail for the Joker

[@Matthew-xb1zn]

🎉

[@censoredialogue]

and i’m living for it tbh

[@bobbiechristine]

Lets gooo 28% ladies rise up

[@stuffinsthegreat]

I was honestly so surprised??? Like I'm always recommending this dude to my friends!

[@thelingeringartist]

👋

[@tashadurant4547]

👋🏾

[@LuxsorFlare]

​@@stuffinsthegreatwell a lot of fds vids are about men so makes sense he mostly has male viewers

[@4namolly]

🎉

[@alexcruz3043]

Honestly I just wanted the joker to commit crimes using props from a prank store dumpster while telling off hand joke for an hour.

[@Nodiee1]

👏 take 👏 the 👏 edge 👏 out 👏 of 👏 superhero 👏 movies 👏 again 👏

[@BigSmiley0TV]

They need to stop handing franchise vehicles over to people that don't actually love the franchise. It's fine to try and do a twist, but if you don't have a love for it then you don't know where or how to twist it. Some of these directors should be doing off brand satire if they want to shit on a franchise

[@rustyATV]

While watching this video I was thinking it'd be hilarious to do a live action joker in the vein of the Cesar Romero or Mark Hamill animated era jokers.

[@blugger]

A little edge or bite is fun. But, like everything fun, it commonly tends to be repurposed as a crutch for lazy writing

[@AnimeProfilePicture]

​@@Nodiee1really only applies to DC movies

[@JessieGender1]

Ahh thanks for the shout out FD

[@FDSignifire]

It's a call out to us all I think. And if we manage to make that change it's be a relief probably at the end of the day

[@FrankenSteinsGate]

The way that you're able to both empathize with and roast the fuck out of the people you talk about in the video is one of my favorite things about the stuff you make

[@clementinedanger]

A level of erudite savagery I've only ever seen in Dan Olsen's review of a review of The Wall

[@Fooacta]

@@clementinedanger The phrase "fundamentally incurious" put the fear of god in mfs

[@thegodplace7887]

That video is so intellectually spicy I wish i could sprinkle it over my tacos ​@@clementinedanger

[@clementinedanger]

@@Fooacta "Doug wants to be a filmmaker, he wants to make art, but he can’t, because he’s a fundamentally incurious person who isn’t much interested in what other people think or feel, and all his ideas boil down to “what if Batman met Mario?” I didn't even have to look that up it's seared into whatever part of my brain keeps track of nuclear annihilations.

[@Royal_Chief_Architect]

Because it’s a western problem. We may not be Them, but to the rest of the world, we’re them. We are educated by them, indoctrinated by them, and in some part accountable in a different way than they are. I appreciate the East so much for their perspective if nothing else. We kinda loony.

[@qmandolin5020]

I was able to deradicalize a young man I mentored a year or two ago (it was a team effort honestly). He’s 16 now. He finally got around to watching your videos (I have been urging him to do so for ages) and he absolutely loves them. He told me he wanted to binge them, but he’s been trying to give each one a full day to fully digest before he moves on to the next. Don’t undermine your impact.

[@KD-ou2np]

How did that process work for him? What did you try first?

[@shorddy1668]

How’d you do it?

[@wombat7961]

My favorite video is of FD talking to Odi it made me realize, ive never sat so long listening to two black men talk together in my life. Everything ive ever learned came from a white face. Also - i hate to ask what is radicalization for black men? i dont understand...

[@kiriiba]

Dont ever change the thumbnail, I had found the best video essay to watch then I saw THIS on the sidebar and immediately clicked lmao

[@spookyfm4879]

Aaaand, he did...

[@leakypfaucet]

Noooo he changed it 😫

[@elimejah]

what was the thumbnail? rn it’s ‘losers’ superimposed over some characters

[@dangerousdays2052]

@@elimejah It was Chris Chan fuxin his PS3.

[@skellbo]

​@@elimejahit was FD in full Joker cosplay lookin crazy. If you scroll down his community page you can see the photo.

[@MikeLarmon]

Watching Star Trek TNG as a kid, is probably why my politics are left. It was inspiring, so much so that I was flabbergasted that we all aren’t pushing for that kind of future.

[@chelscara]

Very much agree. I think one of the wildest people that exist art the Conservative Star Trek fans. Like... what were you watching????

[@ScaryMason]

@@chelscarathey see themselves as the Captain. Absolute power over their crew and changing the fate of whole planets on mission after mission. Steve Shives breaks this down wonderfully, I might rewatch it right now.

[@Edd_LShore]

??????

[@userJohnSmith]

​​@@ScaryMasonAs a conservative Trekkie... Oh my God you couldn't be more wrong. Look I like Shives as much as the next guy but he has as much insight into conservatism as the average Boomer does Pokemon-at best a vague awareness of the existence of the thing.

[@userJohnSmith]

​@@chelscaraHey. So I'm conservative, like George Bush conservative, and frankly I see it as a melding of both ideologies. Self reliance and achievement are expected, neigh demanded to the point that the social pressure surrounding those traits are able to substitute for pay. Career meritocracy is the norm. Trade is varied and encouraged, there needs to be some kind of medium of exchange for property and goods even if we don't see it's utility much though. Family values are actually really strong in their future and there's only a handful of divorced characters (until the deeply flawed and cynical modern era). Civil service and civic virtue are, again, expected. Religions are respected far more than most are today. The downsides are the vaguely totalitarian approach to government and nanny state things the Federation gets up to but there's a lot to like from a conservative perspective. I think it's really important to keep in mind, modern conservatives aren't 1960 era Democrats, no matter how much your professors, news anchors, politicians, or talking heads tell you we are.

[@ForeignManinaForeignLand]

YOU SAY MONDAY UNC 😭 NOW I GOTTA SCRAMBLE AND FIND SOMETHING TO EAT TO THIS

[@yossarrian]

I ate avocado toast sandwiches with vegan sausage. Great pairing

[@JewbertTallywackerHobgoblinIII]

@@yossarrian You eat avocado toast sandwiches with vegan sausage. I eat avocado toast sandwiches with vegan sausage. We are not the same.

[@P0rk_Sinigang]

What a funny problem to have lol

[@jamisonwoodson8548]

Cooking breakfast w F.D. in the background >>>>>

[@squedlly]

I'm finishing off a bag of Goldfish Mega Bites Cheddar Jalapeño flavour :]

[@SebHatesComics]

Whenever you allude to the Diddy video it feels like a Marvel movie Easter egg teasing Thanos pulling up to Earth

[@vlogily8043]

It woulda been weird to see back in the day, more cringe than where it is now knowing what we know now (although there was plenty of speculation and rumor, just no real proof)

[@usedtoyotapriusfour2910]

Uncle iroh from Avatar the last air bender has un-ironically been my role model for the last 8 years, we need more uncle irohs in media

[@kaeya8674]

F yea😢

[@dunadan1995]

Senshi from Dungeon Meshi is legitimately peak masculinity to me and nobody gets it when I repeat that point to my friends.

[@Snormite]

Thors first, then Thorfinn from Vinland Saga are peak masculinity in anime.

[@zaqataq5146]

​@@dunadan1995 Bread! Bread! Bread! BREAD!

[@curtiszyr]

Lmao

[@israelmunoz7143]

I think Andor is a great example of the type of media you are saying we need more of. It not only serves as a blueprint for imagining real political action against oppressive systems, but on a personal level it follows Andor from what is essentially a “sigma” worldview, to accepting that he needs others and others need him. It has a great collectivist message while also being the best piece of Star Wars media since Empire.

[@Blanktester685]

pretty low bar if empire is the comparison

[@scottbuck1572]

As a chronically mentally ill man, if you are valorizing your instability and pain (not just expressing it), you have started down the path that will make you a statistic

[@AdamDoesntReadPinnedComments]

This. Same and taking the step of saying "This is me and I need to be the one to do something about this", as fortunate/lucky as I was able to, was a huge step to at least getting a little better.

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

As long as I live, I won't be a statistic.

[@Eloraurora]

@@scottbuck1572 Valorizing is perfect word for this.

[@gregvs.theworld451]

I honestly want one of these movies with a moody loner who ends up doing something psychotic to valorize his mental issues and pain, but actually meets people willing to level with him and connect with him as a human and gets pulled back from the brink with meaningful friendships and things he learns to value besides his egotistical idea of a cool edgy loner sigma grindset. Just have him meet people throughout the movie, maybe people who relate to his problems or mindset or asocial tendencies or were once where he's at in his twisted ideology who can say "Okay... you took a wildly disproportionate action no sane person would do... And you recognize why that was wrong, correct? Okay. Let's pull back a little bit. This doesn't have to define you or be who you are. You made a mistake. That's human. You don't have to keep doing this or continue down this weird path you put yourself on.". You could even have a Deadpool moment at the end where he hangs up his dark violent vigilante persona, preferring instead to surround himself with the friends he made along the way.

[@scottbuck1572]

@@gregvs.theworld451 Honestly this is the only way to probably avoid the trap of Nightcrawler and Drive: make the instability and loneliness as pathetic as they appear to others, but valorize actually learning to be better. Make it badass to be kind and self-reflective

[@jeremygoodwin9068]

Honestly, the Attack on Titan discourse always has me flashing back to being a young weeb steeped in Death Note. The ending frames Light as a pathetic failure who abandoned every principle he had the second he started his journey. And looking at the story in hindsight he lost "the war" in Episode 2. A lot of fans refused to believe he could lose and insist on viewing him as this "dark supergenius", when looking back, he spends most of the series coasting on luck and priveledge.

[@Hereforabrick]

Bro me too, I remember being like that and actually believing that light should have won, I’m actually ashamed and embarrassed. Death note glorifies him so hard despite a lot of his successes being luck that the perfect series of events happened to occur.

[@NaritaZaraki]

Death Note is unironically one of the funniest things ever made when viewed from this perspective. Like, if you don't root yourself in Light's or even L's perspective on Kira/the series, then you've got comedy gold on your hands. Light is genuinely a lolcow I love him so much 🤣

[@DeadKraken]

I remember hating Light very much, since the first chapter. The manga became something only when L came into the picture, and I almost abandoned it when he was killed. At the time I did agree with Light's point that criminals are undeserving to live and that they should die, but then one of his first acts upon being tested on his principles, is to kill a bunch of people that weren't criminals. And all of his "supergenius" strategies work exclusively because he's got a group of very naive people around him that have known him since childhood, or due to one of the death gods being in love. He's a failure from the very start, I finished that sh+t only because I found the remaining volumes on sale lol Also shout out to the most misogynistic portrait of fictional women I've seen in a non-hentai or harem manga, coming to you directly from a female author no less.

[@hobobob59]

That's such a fun thing to think on from a mature mindset. Similar to you, as a pre-teen I found light to be a cool edgelord guy I could idealize myself as. As an adult, I realize he is insufferably conceited and incompetent in what he set out to accomplish.

[@Ihadtodothisbecauseyoutube-v8t]

@@DeadKraken He literally called himself God and killed a woman who was tracking him down who was in the law. Like book 3 of the manga. I don't get how people ended up liking him - the thing with art, is that how you want it to be interpreted and how people choose to interpret it will always be a mystery. Maybe she agrees with that stuff, or she's mocking them and audiences didn't get it.

[@AcappellaTidbits]

As a BIG John Wick fan I hate that they've appropriated HIM for their Sigma antisocial fantasy. John Wick isn't even a LONER. He's not a lone wolf. He can get through the movies because he has many allies, his good friend died in the beginning, the man was happily married, he literally killed to be with the woman that he loved and he didn't go crazy after she died. Someone just killed his dog.

[@bazzfromthebackground3696]

​@@brandonburns5365Do you? Like, does a loner check with their friends to see if they're all loners together?

[@Alex_Barbosa]

John Wick is just stupid edgelord revenge fantasy though

[@AcappellaTidbits]

​​​​@@Alex_Barbosa eh, never said it wasn't. It is totally escapist revenge fantasy. There's nothing wrong with it being that but one must note that it doesn't go through the usual beats of one his wife doesn't get fridged, the whole thing is over a dog, instead of one assassin causing someone hell EVERYONE is an assassin, etc. It subverts some things in the genre. Revenge fantasy? Yes. Edgelord? Honestly, I beg to differ.

[@silentdrew7636]

It's the same thing that happened with Neo

[@AcappellaTidbits]

​@@brandonburns5365 pretty sure I do. There's a difference between loner/lone wolf and someone who just prefers their own company usually/introvert. If John Wick were a true loner he would have never asked Marcus for help, Marcus would not have gladly given that help (betray him then regret it, dying in the process) and it wouldn't have hurt John that Marcus was killed. John does not actively avoid connection, he's a bit intense but he's not closed off.

[@evecarter]

Honestly the people most affected by all this is the young girls who are near these boys, whether it be sisters, classmates or girls just trying to play video games. I think we dont talk enough about the long term effects of constant exposure to misogyny and sexual harrassment posed as jokes on these girls, especially because I've personally seen it in schools starting as young as 5

[@ellelee8760]

And those young girls grow up to still have to live around and with people like this. It’s everywhere and it’s exhausting. This mindset goes from the dating pool to political policy to home life to online conversations. A life surrounded by misogyny and misdirected anger and lack of reflection

[@brada8763]

Honestly the people most affected by this are the young men that ARE affected by this.

[@inakilukac]

Your post has big "women are the ones who loose the most in war, they loose their husbands, their fathers, their sons" energy. Yes it's incredibly awful that that happens to young girls and how it affects them for life. But the ones being directly affected THE MOST is the boys themselves. Just to be clear I'm trying to point out that you made a really bad choice of words presenting your idea. I'm not denying what those girls go through. Just that, in a literal sense, no, the young girls are not "the most" affected by all this.

[@ikelucas]

@@inakilukac But it makes sense. The boys affected by this are the "most important part of the problem", to put it in a dumb way, but those surrounding the boys are more affected - especially if you consider that one boy with troublesome ideas can impact more than one person at a time, and more than one boy can impact the same person too. Both young boys and girls are victims of this culture, but only one of them has the active choice of being a part of it. And let's be honest, boys that don't follow the incel culture aren't as hated as the girls are, so yeah, there's that too.

[@lauraorganasolo8875]

This is striking.

[@EricChoiniere]

Happy to watch this while its still the first thumbnail

[@FDSignifire]

Something tells me I won't have to change this one

[@loglorn]

​@@FDSignifireThis thumb is _fire_

[@P0rk_Sinigang]

​@@loglorn This is what Playboi Carti does to a man.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

plz don't change it, it's amazing

[@joeiechristiansantana9641]

@@P0rk_Sinigang anong problema kay playboi carti?

[@policelettuce]

Heath Ledger's death (the actor, who played the Joker in Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy, the version of Joker that started all these edgelord impressions) is really sad, but at least he won't see, what his original character has turned into in the modern culture. I don't even know if i wanna laugh or cry seeing those cosplay clips, I mean, they're not even... Joking...

[@jadedheartsz]

Yeah I liked Todd Phillips Joker movies but far too many people seem to be missing the actual point of them, as someone with mental health issues I can absolutely relate to Arthur's struggles with health services in the first film as i've been through that myself.

[@Mf_CHIP]

Say that again...

[@nibblesnarfer]

​@@jadedheartszthe director hates that the first movie attracted the wrong crowd (edgelords), and he ended up making the second movie as bad as possible to mock those edgelords lmao.

[@Chrisjbennett89]

It's sad because i love heath ledgers joker, he did such good job so i hate to see that get overshadowed by edgelord fanbase.

[@clementinedanger]

@@jadedheartsz It's so odd to me because I do remember Todd Phillips' cringey “woke killed comedy” rant. I feel like nobody remembers that. I wonder what happened. Maybe he was a bit disappointed with the quality of his supporters.

[@jerryturgin6583]

Oh god, onision jumpscare......

[@OfJournalandJourney]

I know! 😂

[@GreyGiger]

I'm so upset FD had to remind me Onision exists lmao

[@Keirabae]

Yes! We need a trigger warning before putting him on the screen

[@RJH755]

Oh god not that guy

[@clementinedanger]

Reading the comments before I watch the video has never worked out well for me but this time it was definitely the move

[@benjousan8470]

“The smug satisfaction of being right” is enough to satisfy those who don’t have any hope or desire for anything to change. There are many forces at play there. I really appreciate your hard work to shed light and give perspective on things that we need to think about.

[@silverhollowshadow7855]

After seeing the Nick Fuentes tweet and vid about "Your body, my choice. Forever", I can't waaaaaait so see men trying to excuse it as "Trolling", as if it's not another word for widespread harassment and as if he's not saying the quiet part out loud.

[@lanaloveschocolate]

So far the common response appears to be a "y'all made that up you have a victim complex". I have not yet seen a response to the following proof of the existence of this tweet.

[@MrOzzification]

@@lanaloveschocolate Either that or "Fuentes is an extremist and in no way is reflective of shared values among conservatives" Nevermind that shit is everywhere on Twitter now

[@diegogonzalezvazq]

@@MrOzzificationI think people naively undervalue how many right wingers sympathize with far right ideas. I have no clue how well known they are outside of canada but this Toronto ‘news’ account called 6ixbuzz that started out as a page for posting fights has become a cesspool of the far right in Canada. I have seen posts and comments and dismissed as ‘just being online and not being in real life’ but then you start to notice that these are tend of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of people that believe this stuff and it becomes eery. Honestly why I am certain the Conservative Party will win the next election, because these far right ideas have way more popularity and have seeped into the mainstream.

[@johnwerner69]

I don’t like that Fuentes dude

[@Joeybanananas]

Now that trump has won they're not going to shield it as "trolling" They are going to be explicit that these are there real thoughts and feelings. And as Trumps presidency goes on it is only going to get worse. I'm ngl you guys might want to take a gun safety course and get armed. Things might get really bad and being armed may be the difference between living and dieing

[@kezia8027]

Lmao people call you a misandrist? I've been recommending you to young men for years now for your well thought out, compassionate, expressive work to help young men. You're one of the first people I think of, when it comes to giving young men, healthy, 'masculine' advice.

[@rastabincoolie1]

One of the oldest tricks in the book. Just invert it!

[@BogusBigusDingus]

Me too, I share FD with other young (and older) men freely. For exactly these reasons.

[@ScorpionViper1001]

Honestly, FD is one of the best real-world examples of non-toxic masculinity.

[@GodofPainBelial]

Any time they get called out tho is something they can't handle, so they use that as a cop out for them to pretend like he isn't speaking truth, wisdom, and/or shouldn't be heard.

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@GodofPainBelial It's really feeling like it's this for some, but I'd like to hope not a lot, of dudes. I had this convo on another social platform where some guy was parroting the old line again that we won't reach men by making them seem like villains or browbeating them, and I pointed out I believe we can reach gender equality and solidarity among men and women, as well as give men space to voice their pain, but it doesn't happen while also making sure every man's feelings are spared and they never have to think about their role in society, or harm they might have caused, or have any introspection or uncomfortable conversations, or deep sadness at the realization of how shitty the world is to women, often at the hands of men, I could go on.

[@juankgonzalez6230]

I wholeheartedly agree with your points here, and want to add a quote by Gabriel García Márquez that he said (and the global north completely ignored) back in 1967: "The revolutionary duty of a writer is to write well." And it applies to all art

[@MainManRobPlays]

My favorite depiction of masculinity (not edgy in the same way) is Ke Huy Quan's character as Waymond in Everything, Everything All at Once. I've loved a lot of edgy movies and at least seen the whole roster discussed here, but as someone who strays more toward empathy and stubbornly searching for connection. The radical depiction of Waymond as someone who refuses to abandon compassion, love, and empathy even in the face of it bringing more challenges to his character, is something that will stick with me forever. At least to me personally, that role stood in the face of Sigma male fantasy in such opposition to its tenants that it embodies the bleeding edge at the other side of the spectrum.

[@MrOtistetrax]

Preach. His “this is how I fight” line brought me to blubbering tears the first time I saw that movie.

[@MainManRobPlays]

@MrOtistetrax gets me every time too

[@TangoDAlpha]

This is also my answer! I love that movie so much.

[@mirandameyer237]

I agree with that. If we're thinking about a spectrum, I think Cassian Andor is a good example of the middle (in the show). Cassian has a lot of the ingredients to be sigma-coded, and the first couple of scenes even kind of tease you into thinking he will be, but everything he does successfully is in community or within an organization. It's the times when he's off on his own that things go poorly. And the strength of his communities and his relationships is shown fiercely as not just backup for him, but a power in itself. I think this is meaningfully different from the kind of anti-sigma failures FD was talking about, because it's not "look at how being sigma is bad," it's "look how a guy with everything it takes to be ~sigma succeeds in solidarity."

[@mayaneff3728]

​@@MrOtistetrax and once Evelyn relaxes her fist and starts to fight with kindness, he makes headway. It's such a beautiful way of showing that there are more ways to achieve your goal than with brute force.

[@Courier_333]

At this point i cannot blame any satire for appealing to the people its critiquing. It happened with literally every single piece of satire in history

[@Justanotherconsumer]

“Satire is a sort of glass wherein beholders do generally discover everybody’s face but their own.” -Swift

[@jon-cx7jq]

​@@Justanotherconsumer since when has taylor been writing bangers

[@emilyonizuka4698]

like it's on the audience at that point

[@hoangkienvu7572]

True. Look at the New Norm for example

[@justcommenting4981]

"Pull themself up by their bootstraps."

[@arzosahsothy]

Everythign everywhere all at once is a rare piece of media for deconstructing this. Alpha Waymond is cool, self sufficient, violent, but its the radical empathy and kindness of the "real" waymond that ends up breaking through and setting Evelyn on the path of reconciliation with her daughter.

[@00Platypus00]

The issue is making guys who are already on this path to enjoy such a movie... I really liked it, don't get me wrong, but teens and young men who grew up with violent movies and games won't even bother looking at the screen, I'm afraid.

[@anitaremenarova6662]

@@00Platypus00 I liked the movie too and I did grow up with all those things. You're giving men too little credit, we are people too at the end of the day.

[@00Platypus00]

@@anitaremenarova6662 I am a man ;) I clearly mentioned "guys who are already on this path", didn't I?

[@obscillesk]

Damn, that's the first time I've thought about that, but I knew there had to be something in there with the alphaverse (aside from being the cause of all of this) but usually it'd get lost in the hundreds of other threads that that movie is about

[@ludviglidstrom6924]

“Everything Everywhere All At Once” is an actual conservative movie, as opposed to Joker, which is a revolutionary leftist movie. The fact that no one seems to get that is pretty incredible.

[@YMS]

58:26 DERE HE IS

[@FDSignifire]

Just to prove this wasn't shade, I completely get this Eric Estrada reference

[@nomukun1138]

Closer to an A tier than a C tier.

[@fatfurie]

@8:50 an edge lord will deny your right to be nonbinary and then get pissed when you categorize them as the wrong kind of incel? thats hilarious

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@fatfurie empathy is a learned skill.

[@ekki1993]

​@@zacharybosley1935on the contrary. It's part of human nature that gets severely damaged in an individualistic society.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@ekki1993 in that case, it's a skill that can, and oftentimes must be relearned.

[@beansworth5694]

@@ekki1993 A purely collectivistic society can't solve the problem of people being conditioned into withholding empathy imo. I've seen hyper-individualistic liberals give lots of empathy towards those who don't show solidarity in a way that a leftist might not decide is most appropriate (in the case of people who don't abide by boycotts or strikes, or even towards veterans on the wrong side of a conflict) which reveals to me that although empathy is reinforced or broken down through the specific lens of social conditioning the dominant ideology subjects us to, unfortunately we're all vulnerable to callousness for one reason or another. In the case of a hyper-individualistic society being damaging towards the development of empathy, I still agree with you to a point, it's just that I think human nature is prone to emotional exhaustion or subconscious selective application of empathy no matter the ideological suppositions involved.

[@ekki1993]

@beansworth5694 what are you yapping about? I never proposed a solution, I just clarified that empathy is humanity's default state. Collectivism too, for what it matters. I don't know what's the solution to people having their empathy broken by an individualistic society, nor expect everything to be perfect on any alternative, and it's tiring to have to explain what I'm not saying because you assumed a bunch of stuff I never said.

[@Too_many_thoughts]

Me: "sees thumbnail" Also me: They got unc bro...what time line is this 😂

[@eliasmg9144]

It all started with Harambe's death

[@gregyoung9980]

Ever seen the movie "Jarhead"? There's a scene that explores this idea, where a bunch of marines are watching "Apocalypse Now," and they're focused on the parts of that movie where helicopters are flying around and dropping napalm and bombing houses, and marines are getting hyped up, while ignoring the original point that "Apocalypse Now" was supposed to be an anti-war movie. In fact, I think Roger Ebert talked about that in his review, mentioning that "Jarhead" is an actual anti-war movie, simply because there's no actual war, and the whole movie is just about a bunch of super manly badass marines who become bored as hell and they get in trouble because of it.

[@ddrussianinja]

That movie is so effective. The most grisly on-screen death happens during basic training, the main characters spend 90% of the movie losing their minds with boredom and isolation, then when they finally get some action, it gets handled by air control instead of them. And then the fight ends and they go back home, scarred emotionally and shaped into a weapon without a target, yet expected to reenter civilian life with gratitude and without incident. And that's how the movie ends, with no catharsis, just a loaded gun of a human being. Then the direct-to-DVD sequel was just "Marines are so cool!" military propaganda.

[@chrissullivan6572]

While I wasn't out for blood, and deployed super late in the conflict, that was pretty much a very real depiction of most deployments, especially mine. I spent most of my time in the gym or watchin anime.

[@SquatsAndOats2plate]

Same thing happening to American History X - I grew up in eastern Germany in the 90s, where Skinhead Youth gangs were quite prevalent. Some of my friends even were Skinheads (but to my knowledge, to them it was more like a youth subculture, none were radical violent offenders, most just got groomed as kids into the ideology via older teenagers) - the favourite movie of our village skinheads was American History X - despite the movie obviously being very critical of that movement. Instead of looking at Derek's inner demons and his potential redemption, they all watched the curb stomping scene on repeat. Art is in the eye of the beholder and said beholder's interpretation can vary greatly it seems.

[@skiptoacceptancemdarlin]

Go back to sleep, grandpa. The McRib will be back soon.

[@Bassqautch]

Full Metal Jacket is another film like Apocalypse Now where the whole is lost because most only watch the first half of the movie. As Jarhead I use to tell people to watch it as that what the Iraq War was like because it was boring as hell for a few minutes of action.

[@krazykat8362]

I’m a queer with a younger brother and you are absolutely correct in talking to them in the preteens. That boy was SCARILY CLOSE to being an Andy Tatertot fanboy

[@madsengland]

saw this on nebula and really enjoyed it and wanted to comment- while you only namedropped it a couple times, my favorite tv show is breaking bad, so naturally I’ve thought a lot about the point you ended on. I remember first watching it, anticipating a certain portrayal of Walter White due to the discourse around it, and being kind of blindsided by how firmly the narrative does not take his side and undermines him at nearly every point given how dudes online talk about him. Frankly, I don’t know if it’s possible to make good, meaningful art that is truly immune to being co-opted by those determined to misunderstand it; so much of what a work “means” lives in the realm of subtext, metaphor, and the way an audience engages with it. As artists, you ultimately cede that ground when you present your work to the public. Obviously you control what goes in, but you have very little control of what comes out. Anyways the BrBa-related anecdote that really got this concept through my head, personally, was witnessing years of That Type of edgelord fan be really nasty whenever people tried to analyze the character of gus fring as implicitly a gay man, getting to finally do my victory lap when Better Call Saul confirmed this as not only a legitimate reading but the intended one, and quickly realizing that… nothing changed at all. The dudes who wanted to be homophobic in my comments didn’t throw up their hands and stop because they never cared to listen in the first place. I’ll never claim that it doesn’t feel great to be right but ultimately these media-centric discussions are just byproducts of the kind of shit people would want to be talking anyways.

[@samhuntress]

Twin Peaks

[@nnnnnn496]

People consume media through their references. Some are smart enough to be self aware. But most often people dont care At ALL. Take what you want to belive and run with it.

[@veronicabalzan]

I had no idea Gus Fring could even be misinterpreted as straight. It was so clear that Max was his partner. Insane how people can do so much mental gymnastics to willfully misinterpret something that was so clear in my opinion. Thank you for sharing!

[@TheDrLeviathan]

Lindsay Ellis actually explored the idea of how Nazis and fascists tend to incorporate insulting depictions of themselves into their cultures. She mentions the Hammers from The Wall, and how that led to a real life gang, and i think Starship Troopers is name dropped as well. But then she points out that The Porducers escapes all this because ot makes nazis look like schmucks. The Wall and Starship Troopers can make fascism look cool; the Producers cannot. For the record, I love Starship Troopers and the Wall. I hate seeing them co-opted.

[@TheDrLeviathan]

@veronicabalzan Same thing happens with the character Eddie Dane in Miller's Crossing. The Coens made that one, and had to come out and explicitly state Dane was gay. Which makes him one of the most badass (but evil) gays ever. Search for the video Miller's Crossing one deag wall bang. Dane is the creep who grabs the woman and says, "Why is it everytime I open my mouth everyone gets smart."

[@jemes99]

You could make an argument that Elliot from Mr. Robot is the anti-Joker. He's a broken, detached man who's part of a group calling themselves "f society". But instead of acting out with petty violence, he learns to accept love from the people around him in spite of all the shit he's been through. He's the edgelord that grew up.

[@dillonbaker1750]

I think that’s exactly right. And we learn in the end that the Elliott ** spoiler ** we see most of the show wasn’t even a real person. He was just another fragmented piece of the real Elliott that was created to deal with the world. The show literally ends the exact moment when the edge lord part of Elliott decides to let go and give up control of Elliott.

[@deepspacecow2644]

Yeah, the show is aware of Elliots obnoxious edginess, and watching the world fall apart in season 2 after he "saves" it is pretty funny.

[@jon-cx7jq]

1000%, the show even goes through the extra effort of showing that the FBI were on to fsociety the entire time(more or less)

[@AC-hj9tv]

And then killed the other Elliot lol

[@joshuawolbert2750]

The problem with the edgelord movie is the same as making an anti-war film.

[@tedthecommenter5364]

Come and See is the best anti-war film ever made. It was written by an actual soviet partisan from Belarus who fought the nazis and one of the most infamous nazi brigades that not only included German, but convicted Belarusian criminals convicted of the most horrific crimes like murder and sexual assault and released them on the condition they join the German side., It was filmed by a man who grew up during that time, and the film is shot and directed like a horror film. I'd recommend watching it but be warned it's extremely disturbing and something you'll only ever watch once., it was not released for 10 years because the Soviet Government said that it was "too realistic", because the film was written from the actual experiences of the writer, and the atrocities committed by the Nazis. I would argue it's even better than Apocalypse Now.

[@humphreyspellingbee1732]

@@tedthecommenter5364 Do you mean "partisan" instead of "bipartisan"...? I'm having some trouble imagining the writer of Come and See being all like "look guys the Nazis and the Resistance both have some valid views, let's see if we can settle our differences and focus on the things we agree on"

[@tedthecommenter5364]

@@humphreyspellingbee1732 sorry i was really high when i wrote that comment and still am, Partisan is what i meant you are correct, ill edit it

[@humphreyspellingbee1732]

@@tedthecommenter5364 Go watch Come and See while high as your punishment for that typo then

[@ericb.4313]

​@@humphreyspellingbee1732 His punishment is watching the cow scene on a loop.

[@Venraven]

Honestly, the final thesis of this video is something I've been mulling for a while now, and I'm glad to see it so well-articulated by someone else. As someone who really loves art and narratives, I keep finding myself frustrated in the progressive spaces I'm in that people just kinda... rush to disavow a lot of works (films especially) that are actually good or at least worth watching from an artistic standpoint simply because of them being "edgy white boy film bro movies", even if they're going solely off that reputation and have never actually engaged with the thing itself. There's so much of a fixation on wanting media that doesn't attract the wrong crowd, or disavows the wrong crowd, but as you've pointed out, the problem with that is uh... It kinda ends up being not good? It feels like we keep conceding the good stuff to edgelords who claim it and leave ourselves with cartoons for literal children (nothing wrong with them but they _are_ for literal children) or stuff that was so interested in being smugly correct and alienating to Bad Actors that it forgot to be good, and it feels like a downward spiral.

[@Venraven]

(to pre-empt: I know there's good leftist and progressive art being made that's mature and thought-provoking! Hell, I know that on the theme of Joker alone we have The People's Joker! I'm aware that there is nuance to the situation, I just have a lot of frustrations as someone whose taste in media aligns with "edgelord stuff" that conversations about it with my peers often amount to it dying at the door or stopping only a little further at "aren't edgelords silly for not realising it's making fun of them?" I know that a lot of the films in grimdark edgy media tend to be anathema to the politics of hope and strength in the face of adversity and renewal, but how can anyone hope to properly grapple with nihilistic and individualistic ideas without GRAPPLING with them?)

[@dahliaherrod4301]

​@@Venraventhis is an interesting thought because the conservative Christians are having the same realization on their side. In the attempt to proselytize nonbelievers, they alienated all but the most ardent fan base because the Christian movies are often comically bad. I think the studios are starting to understand they have to put out good material first rather than give us a heavy-handed Gospel. As a conservative Christian myself, I'm super excited to see this awakening on both sides.

[@johnmorgan9745]

@@dahliaherrod4301 I’ve been thinking about modern Christian art a lot lately, as I came to a realization that two of my favorite albums (Okkervil River’s Away and Hold Steady’s Separation Sunday are deeply rooted in the songwriters’ Christian faiths). You’d never hear either in Christian radio, you’d never see either in a Christian music section of a record store or Christian book store. But in “Judy on a Street”, the lyrics have the character of the song mention feeling listless and disconnected from the world, and follows it with “I knew exactly what we need. We went to a church with a shield on the side, smell of incense in the aisles. I felt like a giant spinning wheel, and I know how the minister must feel when his wife takes off her gown and lets her long hair come tumbling down, lit by the world that’s going ‘round.” That’s deeply Christian, going to church fills the singer with a sense of connection and belonging to the world around him. But no ‘good decent Christian band’ would dare write a lyric about a minister feeling in awe of the beauty of his wife naked and lit by sunset. Because that’s “indecent”. But seeing the person you love so intimately and finding fierce, powerful, even spiritual beauty in that is near universal. It’s such a real, raw, powerful feeling. The lyrics are also steeped in religious sentiment. Theyre more directly “christian” than most Switchfoot or Flyleaf songs, even. If modern Christian music and set focused on telling good stories, connecting to the characters, exploring theological concepts, then maybe they’d make some actual good movies. Heck, The Immortal Hulk is staggeringly more powerful in its exploration of faith than any novel you’d ever find in the Christian section of a bookstore, and it’s about the freaking HULK.

[@a1ntcry1noveru]

@@dahliaherrod4301what’s a good example of something that aligns with this recent change? I’m quite curious to see what good Christian media looks like lol

[@dahliaherrod4301]

@a1ntcry1noveru The Chosen series is very popular. I've watched a few episodes and it's actually good TV. Not just moralizing to the heathens you know? I haven't seen it yet, but I know The Sound of Freedom was produced and distributed by a Christian company and incredibly successful. It's my understanding that this production company is coming out with more stuff. That's what I can think of off the top of my head.

[@beegonzales7513]

I know I’m beating a dead horse but I’ll say it anyway…. Alpha, sigma, and beta wolfs do not exist in the wild. Only in captivity 🐺🌖💔 Edit for clarity: David Mech, who originally discovered the idea of “alpha males” later rejected, and redacted that term and theory from his work. Concluding that what he observed was actually patriarchal dominance of an alpha pair. Aka that these were family units, or a mom and dad. I know sigmas are not real. I just put them in there to make a jab at the Omega verse whose books I have been recommended on too many occasions. 😂 Another edit: Captured wolves are know for being more aggressive than wolves in the wilderness. This is because they are forced to live with non-related adults. Quote from wolf haven international: “Wolves are wild animals that are evolutionarily designed to live in families, hunt cooperatively, and travel long distances. Captivity can be stressful for wolves because it limits their choices and puts humans in control of all aspects of their lives”

[@katakesh8566]

Do we not in fact live in a society? Is society not a type of captivity? No...Guess not.....

[@mcclorei9]

@@katakesh8566I was just about to say this. The society we are doomed to be forced to be apart is captivity. I’m upset people don’t understand this.

[@glupik1234]

​​​@@mcclorei9we're also not wolves. And who's the universal captor? Wolves have social structures and dynamics in the wilderness, too.

[@glupik1234]

sigma wolves aren't even a thing. tbh when that whole segment describing them came on I had omegaverse flashbacks 💀

[@Frizzleman]

There are alphas in other types of animals though if I’m not mistaken like chimps

[@valeoncat13]

The idea that "they will misunderstand it anyway" is a part of making art, and just being public online as a whole, that' I've had to really come to terms with as I get older. I spend so much time trying to make sure I communicate things so "perfectly" that nothing I do can be misinterpreted, and just like the movies mentioned here... it's made everything I do, even the creation process much more difficult. So that really hit home for me! A a black trans person I sometimes forget how much I want to make art" for us, by us" but we're still held down by our own fear of being seen. Great video, it's really got me thinkin!

[@clementinedanger]

I'm trans too, and that combination of "nobody who hates me is going to be convinced by anything I make" and "the people I do make it for are extremely paranoid about representation and hate depictions of queerness that aren't 100% positive sparkle rainbow so brave" has artistically kneecapped me for about a decade. At some point you have to let it go. I'm not saying to make art just for yourself and abandon *all* responsibility, but at some point you have to find that balance between being socially responsible and making the art you want to make come hell or high water. Most marginalized people start making art because there isn't anything for them, and they decide to just make it themselves then. That's how it was for me anyway, and remembering that first spark helped me regain my footing a bit. I can't make art that pleases everyone and I don't want to make art that pleases no one. I want to change the world but I am very, very small and I have artistic needs too, it can't all be for the people. All of which to say... god, it's a mess. You're going to be misinterpreted. It's going to be by the people you hoped to reach and comfort. You just have to find a way to be okay with that. Me, I've decided I'm on the side of art, like a wise art imp once said. My priority needs to be making things that I personally think are Beautiful and True. If I do that, I think that's something to hang on to when it hits the fan. As it always will. Solidarity.

[@mitchellkraemer9099]

I'm a straight white male, and my little brother started transitioning this year and all I want to do is support him, all the media, art, etc that I've found by trans people has really helped me empathize. I doubt that I've interpreted it all correctly, but the more points of view available the more people understand each other.

[@clementinedanger]

@@mitchellkraemer9099 Let me tell you something that happened to me. There was this one episode of Brooklyn 99 where one of the characters comes out as bisexual and whatever, it was fine, I've seen it a million times and it didn't affect me anymore. It was a good, decent, standard coming-out story. But then came a joke where the punchline was "you Googled 'how to talk to bisexual friends' didn't you?'" and the other character sheepishly admitted, yeah, that's what he did. Brother, I goddamn broke. I cried like a little girl. Because I realized nobody in my life had ever even gone through the trouble of googling "what is a trans and how do I be?" Nobody could be bothered to put in even that tiny amount of effort. If your brother is anything like me and most of the rest of us, the fact that you care enough to educate yourself in your own time and not put that emotional labor on him in what's got to be a very labor-intensive time... You're a good egg. Thank you. And yeah, art matters. It won't change the world, it won't save us, but it does *matter*

[@nemesi55]

@@mitchellkraemer9099 I think just the fact alone that you love him and you WANT to understand him and connect with him is good enough. You will make mistakes. Everyone does with people they love regardless of their circumstances. But you’re trying to be a good brother and that’s what counts

[@ihavealife002]

You aren't being over sympathetic. People like you and Contrapoints are our here doing important work, reaching out to people no one else wants to, and if you reach at least one person, I think it's worth it.

[@blodiaaa6990]

He's speaking into a bubble, to people who are already interested in this type of content, not to anyone new

[@blodiaaa6990]

@kaleighwaffles It's not impossible, but it's improbable. We need to get off these damn phones and actually talk to people in real life.

[@phillipironhand7636]

​@@blodiaaa6990then plz explain how Chanel grow if no one new 🤔

[@LittleMissLounge]

They might not be getting to the worst of the worst, but they are definitely getting to fence-sitters or guys who just started circling the drain. That's nothing to sneeze at.

[@smokedbeefandcheese4144]

I don't know I feel like the healthy gamer guy is probably better. Contra points and FD are only talking with people who are left-wing and looking for left-wing propaganda. I am only here because I am left-wing and wanted to look at more black creators

[@alisdraws]

I (brasilian) watched this video on nebula right before a man dressed as the heath ledger joker carrying a deck of cards with him tried to do a terrorist attack at our supreme court, threw a bomb at the famous sculpture outside, it bounced back and exploded on him. He was the only victim of his attack. And if this isn't like, a great representation of what this type of behaviour leads to, Idk what is.

[@ScruFaceJeanOfficial]

This thumbnail bothered me so deeply in my soul it took me 2 days to think of the words to formulate just how much it scared me….sadly this is all I can think of lol. Thank you for lettin my sleep paralysis Demon finally retire after 33 years and takin its place. 😂 Edit: Dax definitely deserves the criticism and WAY more, he not just a fake edge lord he also a 🦝

[@inafridge8573]

he is also a raccoon

[@sarahneukirchen7947]

Hi! I would really appreciate if you would take the time to elaborate on the Dax criticism because I can’t put my finger on the feelings I have when it comes to him

[@ScruFaceJeanOfficial]

@ watch any Anthony Fantano video about him, he sums it up pretty perfectly

[@kevp6488]

​@@ScruFaceJeanOfficial you forgot he was also a janitor 😂

[@a1ntcry1noveru]

Happy to see you here!

[@trystongilbert1837]

Favorite Edgelord movies not in this list: 1. Phantom of the Opera (secret brooding genius upset that the girl isn't into him that way). 2. Dr. Horribles singalong blog

[@coolegg8489]

Dr horrible is peak 😂 a classic truly

[@GrandCaravel]

I've never thought of Phantom of the Opera in this way and I think you just ruined it for me 😂

[@numb3r5ev3n]

Check out Lindsay Elllis's "O Daroga Where Art Thou" for a great take on Phantom Of The Opera. She straight up refers to him as a basement dwelling incel. EDIT: The title of her video is actually "The Most Whitewashed Character In Literary History." "O Daroga, Where Art Thou" is what shows in the thumbnail.

[@JohnnyCosme]

Yes, but Phantom of the Paradise, the Brian DePalma rock opera version of Phantom.

[@lyndonwesthaven6623]

Look. I maintain that my enjoyment of Phantom is less about my ability to sympathize with Erik and more about the impossibility of sympathizing with Christine, the archetypal Victorian drip of a heroine.

[@kathrynmyrick1739]

In the same way that “there is no such thing as an anti-war movie”, “there is no such thing as an anti-incel movie”. You can be as direct and as obvious as you want, but some people are still going to see the spectacle and think “war is cool!” or “incel stuff is cool!”

[@coprographia]

Exactly. It’s like that old question (Roger Ebert’s?) of whether you can even make a violent movie without glamorizing violence. I don’t think you can.

[@chanterelle2998]

War cannot be valorized without the knowledge of its atrocities.

[@ramirezmanuel117]

Rocky is anti incell IMO

[@GorgonautAnimation]

It's a bad point, though - nothing in, say, Come and See or Night and Fog show war as anything but apocalyptically repulsive. Truffaut was speaking from a limited perspective.

[@CugnoBrasso]

Great comment. Kind of unrelated, but it reminds me of an interview with the singer of the left-wing punk band Propagandhi. He said that their concerts were full of neo-nazi skinheads who didn't give a shit about their message, they were just there because they thought the music was cool. Propagandhi literally had to write "anti-fascist, anti-racist, pro-gay, pro-feminist" on the cover of their next album to let them know they weren't welcome. I used to love satire, but I'm honestly amazed by how many people don't get the message unless it's literally directly spelled out.

[@koulmemaybe]

"make stuff that's actually good instead of stuff that's good, actually "is a great line

[@Whenhomermetsatan]

The more I watch FD, the more I see his cool teacher and school/community mentor vibes. It’s awesome.

[@LexyconDevil]

Fd calmly explaining his thesis Me on loop: I'm the Joka babyyy

[@mybrother1350]

WHY SO SERIOUS!?!

[@phillipironhand7636]

Fd calmly explaining his thesis Me trying to get past the thumbnail that will haunt my sleeping and waking hours

[@sofastuffing]

hey have you ever wondered what it'd be like if the joker could beatbo

[@beartrap3400]

"In Joker a foy day laloo or whatever" is unironically the best way to refer to that movie

[@imkikyo]

intentionally disrespecting French language is praxis af

[@SLAQGames]

Fantastic video. Very honest, very real but with empathy. You have a new fan, sir

[@kyun1711]

Hey, I've been watching for the last year or so and I used to be one of those edgelords; I was well on my way to being a better and healthier person by the time I found myself in here, but I wanted to say that it was a huge comfort to find someone saying things that I had already held beliefs for but lacked the form or substance to direct and verbalize. The intro sort of struck me, since I've also hit the exact same point in my interpersonal relationships. I have friends that fall into that category that I've tried to drag along with me in the journey for introspection and finding peace.. some better, but some have created a resounding mental dissonance between what I believe and preach vs the audience I keep. I found myself starting to ask a few months ago about at what point keeping these friends is reaching out and attempting to help, versus merely humouring bad behaviors and elements. I was already set on ending these friendships that leave me questioning my (in)actions, but this definitely helped settle and cement the choice. Have a good one, whoevers reading this!

[@notsureyet2200]

All the best on your journey internet stranger. I'm sure your new worldview has improved the world around you, I hope that continues.

[@PhiloxenusTitanic]

Personally, I don't think you need to leave them behind, so much as interact with them whenever you have the bandwidth and try to keep up the positivity.

[@Leahcimmichael]

Boots Riley needs to make more stuff. Alan Moore said this about Rorschach in 2008 “You could put a superhero in the real world for a dramatic effect, because they are kind of stupid. They got these tight costumes, stupid names; they’re kind of unbelievable, so if you actually put them in the real world and have people reacting to them the way that people would, you’d laugh at them, you’d be scared of them. It would be a different way of looking at them, so that’s what went mostly into Watchmen. “[Gibbons and I] thought about superhero types like Batman, so I thought, ‘What would he be like in the real world.’ And he’d be very much like Rorschach-if you’re a revenge-driven vigilante, you’re not quite right in the head. Yeah, alright, your parents got killed when you were a kid, whatever, that’s upsetting. But for most of us, if our parents were killed when we were little, would not become a bat-themed costumed vigilante-that’s a bit mental. So, I thought, ‘Alright, if there was a Batman in the real world, he probably would be a bit mental.’ He wouldn’t have time for a girlfriend, friends, a social life, because he’d just be driven by getting revenge against criminals… dressed up as a bat for some reason. He probably wouldn’t be very careful about his personal hygiene. He’d probably smell. He’d probably eat baked beans out of a tin. He probably wouldn’t talk to many people. His voice probably would have become weird with misuse, his phraseology would be strange. “I wanted to kind of make this like, ‘Yeah, this is what Batman would be in the real world.’ But I had forgotten that actually to a lot of comic fans that smelling, not having a girlfriend-these are actually kind of heroic. So actually, sort of, Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example, but I have people come up to me in the street saying, ‘I am Rorschach! That is my story!’ And I’ll be thinking, ‘Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me and never come anywhere near me again for as long as I live?’”

[@shenanitims4006]

That’s why I love Alan Moore.

[@jeffersonclippership2588]

I was gonna say if he wanted us to hate Rorschach, he shouldn't have had him say "I'm not locked here with you, you're locked in here with me" but then I remembered Zach Snyder probably made him say that

[@_b_e_a_n_s_]

0:24 onision jumpscare

[@unluckypants6459]

Thanks for the trigger warning😂

[@TheArcticBearboss]

I really wish a lot of young men and teenagers that find themselves in the position of relating to "sigma" content, and looking up to shitty guys with an unbelievably large platform, would find different media when they needed it most. If these kids that found content like Berserk, Vagabond, Vinland Saga, Mob Psycho 100, instead of edglord protagonist media, they would be so much better off. I know that these pieces of media (Berserk, Vagabond, and Vinland Saga) kind of have a new wave of contrarian criticism around them these days, that they're just "strong man with sword realizes emotions" stories, but they really are so much more important and nuanced than that. Throughout the story Guts learns that being alone isn't actually good for him, and that being around others makes him stronger. His Berserker armor that enables him to fight without pain, and brute force his way through situations is literally killing him. He is undergoing inhuman levels of pain stress, and potentially aging from using it. Vagabond has a lot of moments where Musashi's character is directly challenging his own lifestyle and beliefs philosophically. In the farming arc he learns that his talent shouldn't be used to take life, but to preserve it. In Kojiro's arc, Jisai learns that his life of becoming a swordsman is all worth it, because of his bond with Kojiro. He uses his strength and talent to take down the corrupt ruler of the village, only after he is forced into action to protect Kojiro, bringing out the best in him. Over time Jisai refuses to teach Kojiro the way of the sword, not wanting his adoptive son to fall into such a dangerous life. Every time he tries to stop him they battle, unknowingly training him in each of these sparring matches, making him better and better every time. He comes to this realization much later in life, finally understanding Kojiros true potential, and that he is a prodigy, and worthy successor. The last thing he does is write him a swordsman certificate, finally able to die happy. A lot of men find themselves in dark and depressing times in life. It takes a truly strong man to learn not to lash out at the world around them, and look within themselves, working on who they are. All of these stories can teach these lessons to young men and teenagers, and I highly recommend them to anyone feeling lost in life, and not sure where to go.

[@GourmetBurrito]

I think Reeves' The Batman may be a step in the right direction. Pattison's Batman starts off as the edgey "I'm vengeance" guy. He is shot and his POV is taken and mirrored by the bad guy. And the whole movie culminates in Batman realizing that his "from the shadows" approach is impotent. That the bat has to become not a symbol of fear, but of hope. Whereas Nightcrawler just break downs issues, it doesn't have the protagonist figure out what's actually wrong or where to go in a broken society.

[@cinemachronic]

Nightcrawler is about an actual sociopath, i dont think it really fits the bill of edgster movie

[@MrOtistetrax]

@@cinemachronicyeah. That movie is intended more as an indictment of the system that enables people like him and points the finger at a culture that is itself sociopathic in its consumption of the type of media he produces. After all, by the end he’s actually succeeded in starting his own successful company, exploiting tragedy and turning it into entertainment.

[@MarioUcomics]

With Batman I also feel that since non of the Modern movies cover him with the Bat family, we don't see the lighter side like Nightwing who still does the cool street vigilante but isn't a brooding loner. That was the reason characters like Tim Drake become Robin since he know Batman needed a Robin to keep Batman Balance. For years Batman has had a team and even a song that served to be a bigger family then the one he lost but we got none of that in the movies since it's always loner Batman after Batman and Robin from the 90's did so bad

[@witchfynder_finder]

The Batman is seriously one of the best Batman stories ever specifically because it looks at what has become of the character since the Nolan movies and says "Nah, fuck that, actually."

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@MarioUcomics I'm so interesting to how the DCU's take on Batman will shake knowing he'll have the Bat famiuly surrounding him this time. The movie is said to be about Bruce and Damian, suggesting that Dick, Jason, Tim, Barbara, and a bevvy of others should also be around by now.

[@forty_two42]

Thats actually why Silver Surfer is one of my favorite characters in fiction. Its a subversion of lone wolf. Hes all "woe is me" and stoic when hes alone, but when hes around people, he changes. Surfer is stoked when hes chilling with Reed Richards or Nova or Doctor Strange. When hes with friends he stops being so weird. Im an Autistic dude who was reading proudon at 13. But if im with people i care about my worries of "we need to tear down all social hierarchy and embrace Autonomy, Egality, and equity" fades a little and i can just talk about last nights hockey game or the Rollercoaster i built in minecraft or whatever. So i relate to the silver surfer. The good outweighs the bad and good things exist, even during rough times.

[@scotthaddlesey3188]

The sad part is that this is the key to solving the problem that's been staring everyone in the face the whole time - all the sigmas and the lone wolves really want underneath everything is the "love and belonging" level of Maslow's hierarchy. Each of the movies FD brings up all either have some character from whom the sigma desires love (Irene in Drive) or community (Tyler Durden), or are otherwise about how the sigma lives ~iN a sOCiEtY~~ that actively others them for things outside of their control (Joker). The most important thing in this video I think is what his interviewee said about the left needing counter-indoctrination. There is no reverse PewDiePipeline - most of the time the left's reaction to edgelord antisocial behavior is to disavow and shun rather than show empathy for things like how that knee-jerk shunning only shoves them further in a corner, or how patriarchy is oppressive to men too. Over the years I've so often heard people say that it isn't the responsibility of marginalized communities or people to educate the ignorant, and I understand the need for safe spaces that aren't meant for arguing with neonazis or videos like this that are targeted at leftists disavowers rather than the sigmas themselves, but at the end of the day there needs to be someone willing to talk down the next Elliot Rodger or else it's going to keep happening.

[@MXM194]

Oh my goodness yes! Brilliant encapsulation of why I love Surfer but could never put into thought/words. Well done you. :)

[@poeticsilence047]

I'm the same way, plus when my pets come and show me some love.

[@heitorsantoslima9289]

Surfer is the goat.

[@aeoligarlic4024]

Somehow i relate to your story... 😭

[@juliana43]

im in grad school rn to get my ma, and i do polysci, international relations, area studies, cultural studies, that kind of thing and especially recently ive been feeling like i have all these thoughts and opinions and things to say inside my head and when i try to articulate them it just comes out as gibberish. watching this made me feel smarter, made me connect some dots as to how to express what i think. truly you are what most of video essay youtube i've seen thinks they are

[@antoniodittman5820]

11:30 It's so funny that they adopt the Wolf as their symbol, since it's such a social animal.

[@KalElinabox]

Lone wolves are skittish and often die early.

[@tinfoilslacks3750]

Right? If wolves were individual by nature, we'd just call lone wolves "wolves". We specify "lone" wolves because that's unusual.

[@east303buddy]

Creatives and artists are so important for radical change. Not just academics making art. Being an artist means being vulnerable and putting out some shit you might hate 10 years later

[@thelingeringartist]

This. It’s part of the experience of being an artist. It’s why I don’t trust or find myself drawn to artists who try to stay “apolitical”. That in itself is a political statement. It’s interesting to see how they fare..!

[@Window4503]

This is why we “as a society” can’t afford to tolerate AI art. Humans need a voice, one that doesn’t end when a program rejects keywords or refuses to put out certain types of content because some megalomaniac can’t tolerate any negative visual representation. AI takes away choice while pretending to give people expression. Really they don’t know what they don’t know or how far they could express ideas if they just tried. If people want political art, then the fight against AI art needs to continue and intensify.

[@jumbojohn890]

One piece feels like counter propaganda. Luffy has the same dream as Eren, he wants to be king of the pirates because that is the most free man in the world, but it's so different and hopeful. I can't put +1000 chapters into words but those who know know

[@flyingsnail_art9170]

this makes so much sense omg

[@notCynicalReally]

🫡 King shit right there.

[@fardinfahim3478]

For a while now I've thought that Luffy is a shining beacon of masculinity

[@howdypartner8326]

This. Honestly, Dragon Ball and Naruto are both up there too as examples of counter-sigma messaging. All of these shows have a main character that is approachable, excitable, hopeful and gives people second chances and wants to get along with people to a fault more often than not. They will go to any length to protect and stand by their friends and family, because they're ever grateful for all that they've received from their friends and family. Be it their childhood, emotional, physical or financial support in a time of need, or even helping them get through something they otherwise couldn't no matter how much they could've trained and honed themselves in isolation. Yes, all of these series have those ''main character powers up and becomes a badass moments'' but the devil is in the details. Time and again, the reason our MCs manage to *win* the war in some way or another is because of their strong backing provided by the good reputation they've established through their selfless acts and outstandingly inspiring choices when put under immense pressure. They *choose* not to abandon their friends or turn their back on those in need, even in situations where it is downright suicidal, and the author rewards them either with plot armour *or* (what I like much better) those around them recognizing their exceptional qualities of character and choosing to come to their aid. It is true that more often than not, these characters have some innate talent or power as well, but it can often be interpreted as the potential any troubled young person has. They've the potential within themselves, which grows as they get older and more capable, of doing great good or great evil. The power to endure or break. Both Naruto and Goku canonically lose control of themselves at one point and end up hurting their loved ones, so in that sense the story also reaches out to those who've unwittingly hurt their loved ones. All the magical, spiritual, fantasy bullshit power systems are actually just means to an end for the author to convey the emotional and spiritual growth of their characters throughout their journeys as well as the physical improvements they happen to have (like lifting weights and becoming able to lift more weights, which is something any person can do unless they've some sort of disability). Characters like Vegeta and Sasuke choose to isolate themselves and bottle up their emotions, hiding their trauma and weakness instead of partaking in a group or community of like-minded individuals (they gradually grow out of that habit as the series goes on, with both Sasuke and Vegeta eventually becoming a part of the main cast by the end and no longer being absolute edgelords), and you can see that being an unhealthy way to go about it in both Dragon Ball and Naruto. Both Vegeta and Sasuke, due to their emotional instability and issues over their identity, past and lineage (as well as what they believe they deserved and the injustices they've suffered at the hands of life), end up becoming easy to manipulate and mislead. They get used by other, more cunning characters, not unlike characters like Andrew Tate capitalizing on the insecurity of young men to have them do what he wants, so *he* can profit off of it. Not unlike how Frieza used Vegeta, or how Orochimaru and later Obito manipulated the shit out of Sasuke. These stories not only display the shortcomings of the 'sigma' mindset, but also showcase the benefits of being the stark opposite of that, while still keeping both sides human and capable of mistakes. Neither side is irredeemably evil or incorruptibly good. There are moments where the good guys get villainous, and the bad guys are on the verge of tears after realizing that what they've done was wrong, that they've believed in a fallacy, and they don't know what to do with themselves afterwards. They're all *people.* That's what makes those stories enjoyable to read IMO.

[@loglorn]

@@howdypartner8326 When does the video essay drop?

[@tecktonic88]

I think a big problem with all of these media examples is that all they do is empathize and then condemn and it's like, well wtf are these people supposed to do. I'm a parent, and one thing you learn fast is telling kids (people) what not to do is really unhelpful and doesn't work. You need to tell them what to do. We need media that is empathetic, and then guiding in its message. We need a movie about an Arthur Fleck type where he doesn't become the Joker because therapy works or because an old friend or distant relative reaches out. We need to give these guys something to aspire to. The real crux of this whole thing is these people feel alienated. Relating to them only to say "but screw you anyways" only serves to further alienate them. That is exactly why people who relate to these characters relive the 1st half of all these movies and shows and seemingly pretend the condemnation didn't happen. They felt seen, finally, they felt like they were understood and like someone (or a piece of media) could relate to them, and it you slapped their hand and called them a bad boy as soon as they let their guard down. It doesn't help.

[@marxnangels]

i think you do have the best comment section on this corner of the internet. there are nuanced takes and personal experiences and i actually learn and rethink things here?!? unheard of.

[@sstamey4]

Yeah I love it down here

[@dahliaherrod4301]

It's nice right? See what happens when a creator sets the right tone from jump? Relax for a bit my friend

[@aeoligarlic4024]

And not EVERYTHING is turned into a quippy joke. It's sad looking at fantano's comments when the man genuinely wants to discuss important matters

[@marxnangels]

@@aeoligarlic4024 yeah that comment section is too far gone. but i’ve seen him dismiss some flawed but honest opinions as ‘stupid’ bc he didn’t agree, so idk if he’s good at keeping those around.

[@Nasgatemk2]

The mention of Driver made me realize that Gosling is typecast as sigma/edglord or adjacent to it. Even as Ken in the Barbie film, let alone Fall Guy and Bladerunner.

[@ScorpionViper1001]

Though Ken from the Barbie movie is, ironically, a great deconstruction of a sigma edgelord. Showing why to move on from that worldview and how.

[@ElkiLG]

That's why watching The Nice Guys was such a surprise for me. He's playing such a goofy loser, it's great!

[@ashleyleckwold5091]

@@ElkiLGLike Holland tries to be broody cause of his dead wife, but then that image gets shattered almost immediately when Jackson breaks his arm and he screams a whole two octaves up from his speaking voice. 😂

[@inhocsigno]

His characters always deconstruct that cliché in some ways. The Driver maybe less so, but he is still a fairly layered character.

[@DanielVL]

He's a nice sensitive guy with friends who cares about other ppl in fall guy tho

[@LiamborninDC]

"A Clockwork Orange" (my favorite of the genre) author Anthony Burgress hated the idolization of his main character Alex. The last chapter of his novel was banned in the USA because of the message that prison and/or drugs will not change a person, but rather that change has to come from within. The film which is fairly true to the novel, ends right before this last chapter. The way he writes that change is actually incredibly realistic. Alex doesn't become a good person or find God like at the end of Crime and Punishment. No, his narcissism realizes that it is in his best interests to become a functioning member of society with a wife and 2.5 children. I remember being 13 or 14 watching a midnight showing at the Uptown Theater in DC, which has a huge screen and has a balcony. As that first close up shot of Alex appeared, about 20-40 punks stood up and started cheering.

[@joshuaweaver5020]

This is one of my favorite facts

[@rosestewart4543]

I once sat through a classmate giving an agonizingly self-unaware presentation about how Batman totally doesn't need therapy because he's a well-adjusted chad who fixed all his trauma by becoming Batman. This was less than three months before Joker came out and rarely have I felt the whizz of a bullet that I dodged pass so closely by my cheek.

[@burninghammerstudios7033]

34:10 as a gen z i am offended that the editor thought that skibidi toilet was our thing 🤣🤣 totally cringe dude lol

[@smartsmartie7142]

fr

[@nacicomi]

It is our thing tho. The original creator is gen z and was inspired by the gmod sfm videos of our childhoods. Almost all the videos memeing/talking about Skibidi toilet were made by gen z or older. Skibidi toilet is our horrible creation that we try pushing the responseability for to gen alpha

[@AgonalRhythm]

​@nacicomi to be fair, a lot of millenial coded memes came fron gen x creators, zoomer memes from millenial creators, etc. Maybe some form of looking up to elder sibling thing going on

[@thelordfosk]

​@AgonalRhythm I see the influence of the older boys on the younger kids amongst my highschool students

[@ericaa.1934]

I think it’s more gen alpha tbh

[@MrOzzification]

04:52 FD FINALLY channelling some lil Bill energy on main

[@cosmic_blunder]

putting the clip of Super Eyepatch Wolf during his darkest moment in his Garfield fit is DIRTY bruh

[@Chrys4l1s]

That shall be his legacy

[@eliasmg9144]

Fiq has stated on John's last Riverdale video that since he's jobbed for the Super eyepatch channel at least twice, it would be John's turn to be the jobber on the FD Signifier channel

[@shrek813]

The Catcher In The Rye makes me so sick because at its core it’s about a hurting boy that has serious mental health issues but at heart he’s a decent kid that just needs some help. I HATE that edge lords used that book to justify being an asshole or in a couple cases, a murderer. It’s such a media literacy thing. Its like dude, that whole book that kid is having a manic episode what in the hell is there to idolize about it? If anyone has read this comment and also read the book, what do you think? Am i missing something?

[@dfrnt_hues]

4:53 That was fun! “Bet you won’t say it to my face” part had me dead. 😂😂😂😂😂

[@thelanavishnuorchestra]

I'm a 60 year old woman who grew up on 70's post-apocalyptic movies. As I grew up, that sense that we're heading for one of those worlds because we're not taking care of things and capitalism is tearing society's fabric apart and leading us to alienation, destruction and collapse. All these movies and TV shows were things I've enjoyed, but through the lens of these thing were bad. Rewatching Breaking Bad is about deconstructing Walt. A left analysis of these things has always been part of my enjoyment of this media. It didn't occur to me until later, with the rise of Edgelords, that people could fail to understand that. (ok, I'm autistic and had a hard time imagining those people's minds). When I found that right-wingers finally got that they're the butt of The Boys joke, I'm like, "How could anyone not get that. It's not context, it's blatant!"

[@chazzerous]

I had a rich liberal arts education in high school and college and I had spent many hours reading and writing essays about text and subtext and analyzing the themes. I don’t think the kind of person who misses the point of The Boys has either the interest and/or education to do this kind of work. Congressman Paul Ryan famously got very mad that Rage Against The Machine advocated for leftist causes, even though… *gestures wildly towards their catalogue* So part of the problem is one of education. Another part of the problem is interest. A lot of right-thinking people also focus a lot more on the aesthetics of something rather than dealing with the actual text. Easiest example is incels dogpiling on Captain Marvel for its feminism. Other than a female protagonist/male antagonist, there is nothing in the text that is feminist at all other than the most basic of things like song choices or a couple one-liners. But because they see a woman fighting a man, it’s feminist propaganda.

[@ArctheLadder]

@@chazzerous Reading One Dimensional Man, about the concept of Regressive Sublimation, really helped me come to terms with feeling like I had a skill set that just, confusingly, didn't seem to mean anything. I've had discussions with liberal friends where the themes or way a piece of art, namely games, is structured is just "games trying to be art." These were not right wingers, these were friends who would supposedly be on the side of at least human rights, ultimately just picking and choosing what they will see as desirable, as a result of commodification. I was really struggling to come to grips with that, I think that concept should be mandatory reading for anyone engaged in analysis. I bet it may be for those who actually did Theory, or at least that's my assumption.

[@joelman1989]

Do you have kids or nephews? I hope they see how cool you are

[@batmancahoon4985]

I’m a sixty year old autistic male, and you hit the nail on the head as far as I’m concerned. When we were kids there were no alpha, sigma, or beta anything. You had tough kids and smart kids and weird kids and rich kids and we weren’t all hyper-excited by constantly reading about this nonsense and having the luxury of pretending to be something we aren’t when online. If I could sum it up, it makes me very sad and a bit frightened.

[@gh-fj5tn]

@@ArctheLadder I skimmed some stuff on it, but the term seems to be regressive DEsublimation. To move away from sublimation? I don't know enough on sociology or psychology to fully understand the distinction...

[@nataschavisser573]

The actor who plays Homelander is great. I was deeply afraid of him the first time I saw him on screen. He is also having the time of his life, rescued from Soap Opera blandness.

[@wormsali]

In the Marines we used to worship movies like Full Metal Jacket, Platoon and even Apocalypse Now which ironically are all antiwar

[@jaywatson8720]

I didn’t understand the anti war message of those films until I got to Iraq and afterwards. I can’t even watch them anymore.

[@sewlew8889]

This was the best watch of my life. Watched all of this in the first minute.

[@Devonm251]

The early drop let's gooooooo

[@DystopiaWithoutNeons]

I thought I was at the top of the food chain, by watching the video at 5x speed and finishing in 15 minutes. Please master, teach me your brainrot methods

[@wolfhaley6900]

i am just a young grasshopper, teach us your ways 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@SorryIBlackedOut]

Imma be honest, I’ve been thinking of making a story where a loner edgelord character goes through it and just before he goes off the edge, he finds love, affection and healing he once felt he was denied by actually talking to someone about his problems. You know, like a story of actual character growth and rehabilitation found in literally the one thing characters like this really need; a guiding hand to teach them how to become better and to finally love themselves.

[@zacharybosley1935]

Berserk?

[@KalElinabox]

It's like fd said media literacy is dead and people aren't that empathetic. They'll be mad that a character gets a chance to improve instead of reaching rock bottom and staying there.

[@Ivana9910]

This exists. It's called the breakfast club.

[@zacharybosley1935]

@@Ivana9910 so what youre saying is that it's overdue for a reprisal? Maybe a modern recontextualization?

[@NatashaVincent]

Careful now. If you use the word "teaching" it's likely to be avoided by the same people you're trying to reach. These people are "seekers" often on a singular, antisocial path (although they may have underlying good intentions). Being "open to", "seeing", "becoming aware" of a prosocial option may be the way. But it's your fiction so best to you in your creative endeavors. You folks make the world go round 🤗

[@jumbojohn890]

I didn't get to finish my long perfectly worded counter argument before the 7:30 mark, this isn't the last you'll see me F.D Signifier. I will have my revenge

[@tonquothegreat]

I'm really happy my two favorite KZbin creators are working together. FD and Westside Tyler? Hell yeah!

[@myriaml.9858]

"A Foy Deleloo" I'm francophone, and have been alive for a couple decades now, and this is up there with some of the funniest attempts at French I've ever heard XD Thank you for the laugh! (P.S. "foh-lee ah doo" would be a pretty good approximation of how you'd try this title in English)

[@clementinedanger]

Being forced to learn French in school for twelve goddamn years was worth it just for Foi Delalu.

[@wab6556]

You said MONDAY! iT'S SATURDAY MORNING! It's FD Saturday!

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

when the tough love doesn't work, when the unconditional love doesn't work, when the ceaseless friendship, kindness and empathy doesn't work, there is only one conclusion: they're choosing this; they don't want to be helped, they enjoy their pain.

[@Knifedog212]

It makes them feel unique as if no one understand them

[@bhhaaaal]

@@Knifedog212 😮‍💨🤌

[@aaliyahjackson9734]

@@Knifedog212very juvenile, right…

[@cg2642]

And unfortunately we all have to endure the consequences of them wanting to be like that

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@Knifedog212 its better to play at being misunderstood by others, than to reveal oneself as having nothing to understand.

[@swine_]

you did *not* have to do eyepatch dirty like that with the garfield suit and i salute you for it

[@Churono]

There's a Scarface game that's an alt-universe sequel, with Tony successfully shooting his way out of the ending of the movie and rebuilding his crime empire. You can feel how the devs just decided to embrace being gloriously stupid in disregarding 'the point' of the movie. There's something weirdly compelling about that sort of decision to me, I still giggle about it sometimes.

[@drakep.5857]

Such a damn cool game

[@facetiousintent]

Not going to lie. That game released at the perfect time. It’d do really well if it were remastered. I bought it earlier this year to replay but I’ve seemed to have outgrown the silliness. It is currently collecting dust

[@ViewtifulGene]

Media literacy is dead. I have no idea how anyone can watch Scarface or American Psycho and think "YES I WANT TO BE THAT GUY, HE'S HAVING A GREAT TIME."

[@blakchristianbale]

Because they’re already like that in all the least respectable ways, so to them those characters look like cooler versions of themselves

[@therealcountryboys]

With all due respect if we go back to the "cribs era" of the early oughts you will see any number of celebs with the pre-requisite scarface poster and invoking him as an avatar for themselves.

[@jayhaymon3188]

I was scrolling through these comments waiting for someone to say scarface

[@Hubabuba258]

Unpopular opinion (possibly) - if we needed a Joker musical, it should be with Leto's Joker. His campiness would fit so well with an over-the-top musical filled with an insane choreography and a legion of backup dancers doing their best to recreate the glory of Take That's music video for "Shine"

[@blodiaaa6990]

We will never need a joker musical

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@blodiaaa6990 I don't know, given that The Joker likes to pull jokes on people and make a meaningless farce of everything, assuming in canon people still have a negative bias towards musicals in the DC Universe, I could see The Joker wanting to do one even harder just to annoy people. I'm sure he'd get a kick out of tying up Batman and trying to force him to watch some kind of Dayman-esque fever dream where the Joker puts his all into the production while making it everyone's problem.

[@Zeik56]

​​@@blodiaaa6990If they made a Joker musical starring Mark Hamil's Joker from TAS it would be 1000% in-line with the character and everyone would love it. Don't pretend otherwise.

[@aeoligarlic4024]

Oh yeah, for a moment i forgot that he's literally the vocalist of 30 seconds to mars.. it would fit his job description too 😂

[@euryvices]

unc just taught me like, five different curses to yell nd I AINT EVEN MAD 😭😭

[@MrMysterious420]

Cather in the Rye was required reading in HS, and I hella related to Holden. Im just glad Im too old to have been in any online incel communities

[@basicjenkins]

I always remember as a teenager hating the book and not understanding why so many people were enamoured by it and by Holden and went "Fuck it, guess I just don't get it." Turns out I actually 100% got it 😂

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

When I was in eighth grade, my teacher assigned it as a book report for me. She said I'd like it and relate to the main character. I read half of it and thought, 'Dafuq?'

[@basicjenkins]

@@AbsurdlyGeeky That is precisely what the friend who recommended it to me said! I was so deeply offended beyond words haha

[@nicolasnamed]

​@AbsurdlyGeeky Reminds me of when my math teacher recommended me Ready Player One and I hated it because it sucks lmao

[@jasonschneider7224]

I feel you on this. I was a little incel edgelord until I realized I was the problem, and as a result, I have an impulse to have empathy for so many of these younger men. Yet at the same time, I came to a lot of those realizations just by getting into the community and seeing how hateful and toxic it was and can't help but wonder why they don't see that. I want to support and help the ones that are willing, but as time goes by, I can't help but fell that a lot of them LIKE the hatred and toxicity - I mean, seriously, how can you believe that any human being would want to be treated the way incel forums say you should treat women? Some people are angry because they're lonely, and just need some real life hints and tips, and other people are lonely because they're angry and women intuit that they are in danger - that's a lot harder to fix.

[@aechidna]

I'll always bring up Rorschach and Alan Moore's constant hating on the people who love him. At the same time, "I'm tired of this Earth,these people. I'm tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives" is iconic and I love it probably as much as the Driver pfp guy who does on Goodreads.

[@heitorsantoslima9289]

Which is funny cause as much as hate that homofobic pathetic that is Rorschach when faced with the genocide for the maintenance of peace... Yeah, I'm with him. Adrian, Manhathan, Spectral... They're all so full of shit for going with Ozzy's plan. The one who is right is Rorschach and that's also a problem.

[@thelettern]

FD, you’ve earned my subscription. You should’ve had it many months ago, but I’m doing it now. Thank you for such intelligent, fascinating, and nuanced content. It’s truly an honor to listen to, you have amazing opinions that I don’t often hear and that I love learning about

[@garplox9]

I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts on Omar from The Wire, as a harder-to-pin-down character. He's gay, black, and very loyal to those close to him, but also embodies the intense lone-wolf spirit and commits some horrible acts. He's portrayed quite empathetically on the show.

[@blizzardcrow3051]

I've been yelling at my friends and family about how we've got so many examples that are critical, "here's what not to do", "look at how bad they are", stories for years now. It's kinda awesome to see the opinion that positive examples are more necessary than ever now reflected back at me.

[@tachobrenner]

Don't yell, lol

[@blizzardcrow3051]

@@tachobrenner my apologies

[@47ness5]

Poe's Law in full effect, sadly. Hopefully we can get better about this as FD concluded with.

[@ohnoagremlin]

men who have written movies and books that basically come to the conclusion "war is a waste, it's awful, don't do it" frequently wind up lamenting that their examples are just twisted to support the stuff they're criticizing. alternatives that don't and can't overlap with the edge lord image are critical

[@westsidetyler]

This video unironically makes all the work I put into my Starship Troopers video worth it. Great work dude :D

[@ookamiblade6318]

Speaking of starship troopers, the Video Game Helldivers II is kind of the new starship troopers, and I oft wonder how many people playing it get that….

[@lza5735]

​@@ookamiblade6318 space marine 2 as well. One of the fundamental aspects of Warhammer 40k is that all the factions are monstrous.

[@fourcatsinatrenchcoat]

your vid is so good man! thanks to unc for putting me on to it

[@Invisibleguy-kn7bd]

This brings me back to a line I remember hearing ages ago but can't remember where. "You can't logic your way out of a position you never used logic to reach". These edgelord aren't reaching their positions through reasoned and rational arguments based on truth and facts. It's all vibes and personal perception. It's why pointing out something they say is incorrect or inaccurate doesn't matter to them. It's why explicitly making the character that they've latched on to be a loser that everyone's laughing at doesn't work, because they'll just see it as bad writing or "going woke". I really like the bit towards the end about needing a counter-narrative and counter-propaganda, because that's 100% true in this case.

[@aishahb8336]

The exact same thing happened with one of my favourite shows where it might not be the exact same kind of edgelord but still a dicey male character type: Bojack horseman

[@El_likes_to_stim]

Yep, watchin Bojack became tough sometimes.

[@HOVNA]

I actually don't think that's the case there. Even though there might be some content like that, it's very rare. And for a reason. I personally had an experience when watching BoJack, where I started identifying with him at a point. My reaction was probably what was intended. Disgust and disappointment in myself. "That's me sometimes." And I hated that image. I think the show is really good at pointing out how terrible Bojack is.

[@nascenticity]

i am so glad for the conclusion of this video. i feel like you hit the nail on the head. these media are a *reflection* of a certain world view and it’s not enough just to criticize it - we need to actively present an alternative, but in worldview and in fictional tropes and narratives.

[@VanderWolls]

I know this isn't the main point of your video. If I can just say - You mention at the start that you partially regret the "be yourself advice" from your old video. However this remains to be the only time a video essayist opened my mind to something. I saw a perspective through your explanation that I had never seen before. I was out of touch with what a lot of other people were saying and I didn't even realise it until that video. That's genuinely only the second time that's happened to me in my life. I still thank that was pretty cool.

[@vids1900]

More sincerity/earnestness in some of our media sounds like a solid first step

[@connordarvall8482]

I think the best piece of counter-edgelord media is MOB Psycho 100. Only the villains believe they are special and above humanity and all the villains believe they are special and above humanity. Fight scenes that are actual fight scenes always happen offscreen because they are irrelevant to the story.

[@medic2831]

I was thinking about this

[@richardsilva5110]

Beautiful!

[@electronsympathy]

Another thing that adds to it is the fitness club. The whole crew looks like a bunch of delinquents and has an intimidating air. And as soon as Mob says he's interested in joining, they become just the absolute best dudes even when it's clear that Mob isn't nearly on their level. They show that putting yourself out there can be rewarded even if you're different, as long as you're genuine and put in the effort to meet them halfway.

[@connordarvall8482]

​@@electronsympathy The Body Improvement Club themselves are basically the anti-gymbros, which is perfect for the weird overlap between edgelords and gymbros that's starting to occur.