Federal Pacific Circuit Breakers Investigation Finds Decades of Danger NBC Bay Area

Federal Pacific Distribution Box

[@excellenthomeinspectionsrv5854]

One of the most thorough investigations I have ever seen on the subject. Kudos to NBC Bay Area.

[@spoolin55psi]

A hotel I used to work at has those breakers I remember the roof had all the ac units on it 1 had previously caught fire and when I was working there we had one shirt out and catch fire the breaker didn’t trip

[@bobsjers]

Who is supposed to issue the recall? They went out of business decades ago, and most of the retailers who sold them are no longer around.

[@gtb81.]

actually tested some a few minuets ago, and all mine tripped. shame, i was wanting fire and sparks

[@johnpyburn3168]

I worked in Newark nj where fed pacific was made and I've seen liquefied wire nuts so many times I became numb to it all I did in that town was upgrade from fed to new stuff shits crazy

[@JoaMaj]

Thanks for this! Just had ours replaced last week. There was clear signs of overheating inside it - it never once tripped. Wish more news stations would report on this problem.

[@zenjon7892]

Agreed. 60 Minutes should do a piece on this

[@driger888]

had mine for 40 years and never had a problem.

[@ElectricianMagician]

You're lucky

[@driger888]

@@ElectricianMagician the other hundred homeowners in my neighborhood that have the same setup were too.

[@doninmichigan]

Not just homes, also grocery stores, hospitals, factories, etc, pretty much everywhere back in their day. Also besides the no trip hazard, if you try to remove one, it may come apart in your hands with the guts still attached to the bus bar!

[@CrisHVAC]

A lot of our clients still have Federal Pacific panels in their home.

[@jessespad]

Here too. I'd guess about 10% to 20% of the homes in our city has them.

[@hochhaul]

A friend of mine just had a FP breaker fail 3 weeks ago. Luckily it didn't result in a house fire but the panel started to smoke. Replaced it with a Square D QO.

[@ironmartysharpe8293]

You definitely did the right thing by replacing it with a Square D panel , In my opinion , Square D makes the best circuit breakers , In my years of electrical work , Not once have I run across a bad circuit breaker nor heard about a bad circuit breaker made by Square D , The Square D type QO breakers have a tight fit in the panel so you know that when you install that breaker , You have a tight connection , A reliable panel and a reliable breaker Anytime I change out a breaker panel , I always go with Square D

[@JustinLodes]

Those are top of line breakers. I always recommend the QO breakers

[@Allan11236]

Agreed My boss only installed Square D panels. Sq D breakers trip incredibly FAST.

[@Adam-hp5hj]

Who was the man or woman remotely forcing the breakers to trip during testing, and how do they feel about the damage their actions caused?

[@NewsBroadcasting]

these are poorly designed ones. thats what matters. thousands of US fires happen each year because of them .

[@ironmartysharpe8293]

​@@NewsBroadcasting , Way beyond sad that a company would deliberately put out a product that they know is defective and dangerous , Besides people losing their homes and their belongings is how many people died in those fires , The CEO and all the others involved in making a defective product like this should be put in prison for life

[@Sparky-ww5re]

And this is one instance where fuses are safer than circuit breakers, (aside from lack of gfci and afci capabilities) and fuses are cheaper as well. Unfortunately, many people are falsely led to believe we went to circuit breakers in the 50s and 60s because they are safer than fuses. Totally false. The real reason fuses got a bad reputation had nothing to do with the fuses themselves. To understand why, you have to understand how things work. A fuse is a very simple device, a thin wire that will melt and open the circuit before the circuit wiring becomes dangerous. It is this simplicity, combined with human error, that make fuses dangerous. The typical fuse panel used in many pre-1960s homes was rated 60 amps total. Typically 4 branch circuits, plus your range and main pull out. As many households post WWII began to purchase more affordable gadgets, electricity consumption sharply increased. Properly rated fuses blow and do precisely what they are designed for. After a while, homeowners who don't understand the dangers, replace that 15 amp fuse with a 20 or 30 amp, to remove the nuisance of blown fuses. Occasionally methods such as a penny behind the fuse or fuses wrapped in tin foil are also employed. An untold number of fires and deaths resulted. The circuit breaker on the other hand, was easily reset, and is far less likely to be tampered with than a fuse.

[@jackheris687]

Lots of homes still have these. I had mine replaced by California Power and Light. They are located in Campbell CA. They took 2.5 hours. You should definitely get them replaced.

[@bryancoats5328]

As an electrician, I cringe every time I see FPE breakers or panels, I tell anybody with them to replace them and the panels. FPE also made low and medium voltage switchgear as well. Makes me wonder how many of those will or have started fires

[@jackheris687]

It's easy to tell if you have one. It will say federal pacific on the front of the panel. And also stab-lock on the inside.

[@almaholloway707]

I have one of these boxes I don't have lights in parts of my home no one will touch it I'm disable and I don't have the money to replace nor to have it put outside what can I do

[@bammab977]

Yea a little late to the comments, but you didn’t discover anything. It’s been a well known issue for decades.

[@AudiophileTubes]

Everyone involved in the Federal Pacific deception has blood on their hands, given the fact that many have already died due to the faulty circuit breakers and fires caused by this! Presumably though, many of those responsible have passed on or are now elderly, since the company has been defunkt for a while.

[@gurjindersingh199]

In my honest opinion fuses are inherently better than breakers due to the fact they are so simple and less likely to fail. I wish they just went with different sized fuses for different amperages to to make it idiot resistant ie 20a fuse will not fit 15a socket or holder

[@ironmartysharpe8293]

I agree with you 1000 percent , Like you said , Fuses are by far the best for electrical protection There's nothing mechanical with a fuse compared to a breaker which can fail , Fuses should have been made in such a way just like you said , A 20 amp fuse won't fit a 15 amp socket and so on , Circuit breakers take longer to react to an overload or short circuit than a fuse does and because there's nothing mechanical with a fuse , They're much more reliable , If anything , The Fuses should be redesigned along with the panels so the wrong size fuse cannot be installed , Fuses definitely should be brought back , Now as to ground fault circuit interrupters and arc fault circuit interrupters being required in new installations , They are available in receptacles and have a feed through to protect the rest of the circuit down the line which means they can be paired with fuses and will work equally well as the GFCI and AFCI breakers do , If you noticed in the newscast towards the end , They said that fire inspectors don't necessarily check the circuit breaker panels and they should be checked as standard procedure in a fire investigation , Here was a case scenario where I installed a ceiling fan for a friend of mines relatives and I went to the panel to take the fuse out to turn off the power , After installing the fan I noticed that this panel had 30 fuses in it and were all the wrong size , So I pointed this out to them and explained the dangers involved and they let me proceed with replacing them with the correct fuses , I opened the panel to look at the wire gauge at each fuse socket to size them properly , It turned out that when they bought new fuses , They didn't look at the amperage of the fuse , So my friend and his relatives I did this for were really happy and thankful that their fuse panel is safe again , Also I marked each fuse socket to which amperage fuse to put in there so this doesn't happen again , Once again , Fuses should be designed to fit only a certain socket for each amp rating so the wrong size fuse cannot be installed just the way you said , Anytime I come across a fuse panel and find the wrong size fuse in it , I always point out to them and explain how dangerous it is and replace them with the correct fuses

[@WalterKnox]

it is a shame, they are so much better, but alot of times you can't buy a house with fuses because they fail inspection, at least here they do, but you can still get a loan on a house with an FPE panel.

[@zenjon7892]

Agreed. Different diameter of threaded sections would have worked

[@gtb81.]

they did, they sell adapters and fuses that can be installed so that you can't place a larger fuse in the socket

[@WJCTechyman]

UL did not test or approve equipment. CSA did at one point, not sure if it does now.

[@mikegallant811]

Suffice it enough to say,me and my mom and dad dodged a major bullet because our mobile home that we had till early to middle 2000s had FPE box and breakers. It is only by God's grace that disaster did not strike!

[@charletonzimmerman4205]

This has been known, by Electricians since 1975! But try to explain to homeowner, They won't listen! Yes in Pennsylvania, house Inspectors fail, Zinsco/Federal, Panels at closing on Mortgages!

[@workingshlub8861]

most insurance companies wont even insure if you have these.

[@jessespad]

Not where I live. A large percentage of the homes in our area were built in the 80's before the oil market busted. Fed. Pacific was really popular during that period and there are neighborhoods where every home has one. I'm a realtor and home inspector. Most insurance companies will insure you in our area. Some of these homes even have Fed. Pacific with Alum. wiring. I call that the double wammy. With a few exceptions, they still get insured as well.

[@jimithing0751]

@@jessespad I'm an insurance broker in the Buffalo NY area. Of the 15 or so companies we have for homeowners insurance, only 1 will cancel a policy if they find out the homeowner has a FP box. Rightfully so...I have a FP box in my house and DID just have a fire because the breaker didn't trip when something was wrong with my air conditioner condenser unit was malfunctioning. Thank God we were home and awake, was able to quickly put the fire out. Very dangerous boxes, getting ours replaced quickly.

[@AsG_4_]

@@jimithing0751 I’m seeing it down here in Binghamton .. they’re not letting them go.

[@WalterKnox]

we have had 3 houses with them, still have one. they came and inspected and still gave us insurance.

[@workingshlub8861]

@@jimithing0751they have a around 70% failure rate...i would not sleep at night with that in my house...

[@jimithing0751]

Copied from other reply below, it's an important topic: I'm an insurance broker in the Buffalo NY area. Of the 15 or so companies we have for homeowners insurance, only 1 will cancel a policy if they find out the homeowner has a FP box. Rightfully so...I have a FP box in my house and we DID just have a fire because the breaker didn't trip when my air conditioner condenser outside was malfunctioning . Thank God we were home and awake, was able to quickly put the fire out. Very dangerous boxes, getting ours replaced quickly, as everyone who owns one should.

[@ironmartysharpe8293]

Thank God you had the panel replaced and thank God you're still alive , That fire could have started while you were sleeping , I myself am trying to get the word out about Federal Pacific circuit breaker panels to my friends and family members , I asked them to take a picture of their breaker panel so I can identify it and let them know whether or not it's a Federal Pacific circuit breaker panel and if it is , To get it replaced immediately because anyone who has these panels has NO electrical protection whatsoever , One time I had to turn down a job because the homeowner has a Federal Pacific circuit breaker panel , He wanted me to install a 220 line and transfer switch for a generator and I explained to him that I can't do any electrical work there unless the circuit breaker panel is replaced immediately , I showed him the video and explained to him that with this kind of breaker panel , He has NO electrical protection whatsoever , That the breakers will not trip when there is an overload or short circuit and that thousands of fires were caused by these breakers , I haven't heard from him since and I hope to God he had the panel replaced , I will never do any electrical work at a place where it has a Federal Pacific circuit breaker panel unless the owner lets me or someone else replace the panel

[@dianetanyi4632]

I just learned that I have one in the condo I bought one year ago. Does the entire box have to be replaced or just the breakers?

[@rrcoster]

Have replace whole panel no good and dangerous keep using

[@robertsitch1415]

Its insanely expensive to buy aftermarket replacement parts for those panels, so you are farther ahead to have a modern panel, preferably with some expansion room.

[@heroknaderi]

Wow

[@workingshlub8861]

the apartment complex i work at has all federal pacific sub panels....these exact ones that are the problem. the other FPE stuff is not an issue.. ive been telling them for years to replace them but they will find out the hard way.

[@ironmartysharpe8293]

Unfortunately They won't learn their lesson until a fire breaks out , People are injured and lives are lost , I wish a law was passed , Making it mandatory to get rid of the Federal Pacific circuit breaker panels , Especially in an apartment complex or business or shut the place down until the panel is replaced because of how dangerous these panels are , Anyone who has one has NO electrical protection whatsoever They're just merely on-off switches , Whoever owns and/or manages that apartment complex has the chance to prevent tragedy so that person better act immediately and get those panels replaced , if I ran an apartment complex , I sure would never want any of my tenants living in a place that's unsafe and if I had a Federal Pacific circuit breaker panel , The moment I found out about the dangers involved with these panels , I would replace them immediately , Hands down

[@workingshlub8861]

@@ironmartysharpe8293 get this..about 12 years ago before i started working there was a major fire because this guy was smoking while on oxygen ..he died. the city made them upgrade the fire alarm panel and install sprinkler system..it is low income housing so they got all kinds of public safety grant money for all that work...they did everything except replace those fpe panels...that would have been the time but you know what will eventually happen.

[@ironmartysharpe8293]

Working shlub , I hope you're not working there right now because I don't want to to get hurt or end up dead if a fire breaks out because of those panels still being there which is a fire waiting to happen , I'm very thankful that my electrician friends told me about Federal Pacific circuit breaker panels so whenever I run across one , I can let the people know about the dangers involved with these panels and persuade them to get the panel replaced , Even though the place has fire suppression equipment , It may stop the fire but what about the toxic fumes a fire can cause ? And some people can have dangerous respiratory attacks from inhaling those fumes , Even in the smallest amounts I hope the best for you and your safety and the safety of the ones living there , I wish people would listen whenever someone points out there's dangers involved with defective equipment and act on it and correct it , It's very clear that Federal Pacific did not care about people's lives and apparently the individuals who run that place don't care either , Because if they did , The panels would have been replaced and the building would have all the required safety equipment installed

[@workingshlub8861]

@@ironmartysharpe8293 im still working here....i have saved emails to my boss saying these are a danger and need to be replaced.... no matter where you work management always thinks they know better even though they have no experience in your particular job..

[@ironmartysharpe8293]

Working shlub , You are more than absolutely correct , Countless times I've dealt with individuals like that and I'm sure you have too , And how frustrating it is , I definitely commend you for pointing that out and that you care about others and their safety

[@mikegallant811]

This is just as bad as that thing with GE Coffeemakers!

[@alcolavista-22]

Wow.. so scary for people who don’t pay insurance 🥴👍 insurance guy explained to me it just fine 😉they can built a new house for me😂

[@Desertrats-c3y]

master electrician in cali??

[@CARLITOS3091]

Isaac Gamez 8315128826 I'm in San Jose