Feminism vs. Patriarchy in History [with Rudyard Lynch of Whatifalthist]

Feminism is new, and it's the first time women have ever used girl power to get freedom from evil men who held them back for no reason since forever. Right? Not really.
Rudyard explains to hoe_math the history of patriarchal vs feminist control over societies of the past, what patterns we've seen, and how to know what's coming next.

[@HoOGenghisB]

“Mr. Hoe and I..” Lost it 😅

[@luketinka]

… have been friends 😂

[@lorenzoalcequiez8344]

Lmao

[@daniilrayu1911]

Same XD And he keeps addressing him that way

[@SouvenTudu1]

😂

[@SouvenTudu1]

​@@luketinka😂

[@floridaman3823]

"Everything is about sex. Except sex. Sex is about power." -Oscar Wilde

[@notsocrates9529]

No it's about cooming, which feels good.

[@memegazer]

Everything is about power except power machiavelli

[@Anicca108]

In defense of Zoomers’ mental issues: “It’s no measure of good health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” - Krishnamurti

[@BorgCreations]

Imagine calling people's natural reaction to a collapsing civilization a sickness and blame it on themselves. Truly evil.

[@pekka405]

People always adapt

[@TerranceBhS]

​@@pekka405 That's true, but adaptation shouldn't come at a cost of constantly popping pills to be well-adjusted.

[@pistonsjem]

@@TerranceBhS popping pills just prolongs the inevitable. Like leaks on a sinking ship, you either notice it in time or you dont.

[@BarnJ]

​@@TerranceBhS yeah the pills thing is obviously a "treating the symptoms instead of the disease" type of situation. ADHD is the best example, where you place kids in a very unnatural setting and try to force them to behave contrary to their instincts (don't play, be quiet, sit still, listen to boring stuff without us explaining why it matters) and instead of questioning how we teach, we lobotomize them with baby-meth so they'll go along with the program. I think there's more recognition of this now and more distrust in the "solve everything with a pill" economy and it will eventually correct itself.

[@MikeJones-wp2mw]

Hoe Math quote of the day "They want to go straight to space gay communism."

[@castratedbob]

"Real automated gay space communism hasn't been tried, aktually" 😂😂

[@buckaroobonzai2909]

The flat earthers will fix that problem. Don't worry.

[@CameronBrown-ph9do]

Not wrong, the number of commies who sincerely think star trek communism is the "answer" is alarming.

[@sethv.1349]

Americans may just want their tax money to pay for their health care like the rest of the industrialized world does, instead of wars and Walmart subsidies.

[@Redmanticore]

thats exactly what tech bros promise us with automation and AI, to be fair.

[@alexmeier1]

1:23:20 "I think that I always really wanted knowledge and understanding, and now I have it, and it hurts, and I'm tired". I felt that.

[@RexJacobus-bb1vw]

Ecclesiastes 1:18 KJV - 18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

[@Stoneybv]

Great power comes great responsibility

[@rumorcontrol7873]

"He chose the path of eternal torment.."

[@bluebutterfly5062]

Ignorance is bliss

[@gastonlanteri1147]

"Truth will set you free, but first it'll make you miserable."

[@messertl]

As a Gen X'er, this video helped me understand how completely insane dating is for Gen Z's and Millennials.

[@michaelmicek]

I observe, as a Gen Xer, that we were contracepted, aborted, neglected, invalidated, and impoverished; but I guess things have largely gone downhill the last 40 years.

[@messertl]

Sure all those things happened to Gen Xers. But at least we got to play outside and they were not trying to convince us to cut off our genitals.

[@michaelmicek]

@@messertl I think I came across as more ironic than I should have. In all seriousness, yes, things seem to have continued to get even worse for typical Americans.

[@pete5691]

Gen x were raised by boomers, which means raised by the babysitter and tv so our boss moms could work. However what was on tv still had gender norms that made sense and kids movies and shows still had a hero and a girl longing for love. There also was not quite as much anti-wyte propaganda infused into media. Right now I challenge you to find anything watchable by kids that by 80’s and 90’s standards makes any sense as far as norms. Gone are shows with exclusively male heroes or girls longing for love-replaced by 100 pound girl bosses beating up 200 pound guys and clueless men being shown how to do things by mary sues. The list goes on and gets worse and worse. It’s being done TO us not BY us btw.

[@daniellane419]

I’m a Gen X that figured out how much the world was changing in 2009. There’s nothing more frustrating than arguing with a boomer every time they tell millennials and Zoomers to just do it the way they did . The boomers have no concept of the current reality these kids and young adults are facing.

[@samiamgreeneggsandham7587]

Rudyard is a bit of a dork and he sometimes makes statements indicating delusions of grandeur, but his channel content is nonetheless interesting, and he’s much better read than 99.9% of people his age. Glad to see the mathematician and the historian getting together.

[@ProzacStylings]

He needs to be better informed on biology and adjacent fields. He's using the feminine perception of Asian men in his arguments and displaying a huge ignorance of the biological underpinning of that.

[@bie806]

Your comment is a great example of that gossiping, rallying, shaming they talked about.

[@Nethershock]

Anyone who talks about masculinity and doesn't lift/train isn't an expert. He makes good points but the delusions of grandeur are from physical weakness. He's trying to make minds robust, but the form leads the spirit.

[@niczvr]

​@@bie806how so?

[@holidaytrout5174]

Accurate

[@theflamingone8729]

It's not male sexlessness, it's males rejected by their community. Those men didn't go to fight for their countries, or their flag etc. They went to fight for their families, their communities and their standard of living. Those are also the things men work for and develop for, develop themselves and develop better technologies and strategies.

[@andrewharris5281]

And the bureaucracy has been built up to take from what men make and redistribute it to those who claim to deserve it. And it has mutated into a creature that has punished those who do for those who for those who risk. And those who risk for those who can’t/won’t. Which is why you have the successful saying, just take a risk and work on building something and others who say I can get ahead by being a victim.

[@pyronderman9055]

you are wrong. I would die for my country for my flag, and for the restoration of my king. Yet i have no family to fight for.

[@theflamingone8729]

@@pyronderman9055 I hope you don't. *I meant, I hope you don't die for your flag etc. I hope you do have family and community etc.

[@alexgame3357]

@@pyronderman9055 Yes, there used to be institutions for men who did not have a family and could dedicate their lives to the glory of God and their society, unfortunately they have taken that away from us. So now all we have is lonely, angry incels who are apparently the biggest threat to national security that has ever existed.

[@jollypolly1686]

@@pyronderman9055 At some level of consciousness you still have the desire and hope for a family within that country and under the values it's flag represents. So it does come back to family, community and values indirectly.

[@popofabulous]

HM is a great interviewer. He actually listens for a reply instead of over talking the guest and makes poignant observations.

[@davidwalker8195]

I watched someone interview HM and twenty minutes in HM had said 3 sentences.

[@chipcook5346]

Yeah. I listened to the Jolly Heretic interview Rudyard, and it was a painful slog to the place Dutton wanted to go. That's fine, but not so much in an interview. This is an exploration which is far more enjoyable and illuminating.

[@michaelosborne7532]

“The values of the bureaucracy have just filtered down into the lower classes, and everybody is trying to mimic them; and the more that they do that, the more it doesn’t work, because bureaucracy is fundamentally non-productive”. Great insight.

[@gastonlanteri1147]

Read Joseph Schumpeter in "Capitalism, Socialism and Democracy". That's exactly what he predicted, a "burgueois-cification" of the middle and lower classes, smaller houses, less and less children, more travels, more fun, less responssbilities... And the crash of Capitalism in consequence.

[@TheInterwebzMan]

Great chat! This dude is a juggernaut at 22 years old

[@LamelKendrick]

he was phenomenal

[@xboneyt485]

Looks like he's in his late 30's or early 40's Wonder why he can't get a girlfriend... A mystery we'll never unravel...

[@asura8495]

​@@xboneyt485 what makes you think that? he never complained about that

[@-blackcat-4749]

The 📔 discussed previously moment is unexciting. Another time

[@nickc3856]

​@@xboneyt485 you're projecting lmao

[@CoperliteConsumer]

"fully automated spacegay communism" 😂😂😂

[@Alexander_the_Average]

Yes that was hilarious! Pretty accurate when I think about it😂

[@Kaizen747]

@@Alexander_the_Average ikr, future were are heading lol

[@xaxaiuedufraine4897]

Rudyard's audio cut out at multiple key moments. It would be great to have subtitles to fill those in, assuming that information isn't simply lost. Otherwise excellent talk.

[@michaelmicek]

+

[@Heyemeyohsts]

Yeah that was almost worse than the ads

[@meneerjaap]

I was looking for this comment, please provide us with the missing information! The stories are now very incomplete unfortunately, and I'm so so curious

[@notlengthy]

Plz hoemath

[@sanluisflyer]

A 1%er here - I frequently look around & ask how are average people making it? The answer is they’re not & that’s bad for society. Ultimately, it will self correct & I don’t fault any young man for being pi$$ed- I’m in my 40s & “made it” -I’m furious too….

[@willshad]

The only people who think that money will make you happy are those that don't have it.

[@biscottigelato8574]

I think I'm 1% wealth-wise. 39 years old. Doesn't help sh!t. So many forces beyond economics in play here. Money is just digits in a database, regardless if its USD or BTC.

[@ChaosXcrusheD]

It won't "self correct" because the system isn't designed to allow corrections. The system is designed to extract maximum value regardless of its effect and once all value is extracted, everything collapses into ash and dust. The 1% lives and gets to be fat, happy, and breed unrestricted. 99% is enslaved or eliminated.

[@CoochSmooch]

Having no family, friends, or sense of community can do that Be rich in wealth & the soul to live stress free & happy

[@TruthIsLikePoetry]

@@ChaosXcrusheDdo you not think things can get so bad for the masses that they revolt and burn the system down? Something has to give and our leaders are completely inept when it comes to actually solving problems. They’ve had the luxury of kicking the can down the road for decades instead of creating actual solutions.

[@sub.sa.3058]

I remember watching whatifalthist channel like 3 years ago and being surprised by how different what he was saying was from everything else. A lot of those older videos aged really well especially now

[@anonymoose9315]

I started watching him when he had under 30,000 subs. I never thought he would get this big an interview so many of my favorite KZbinrs.

[@unitedtomato5444]

He predicted Russia invading Ukraine

[@louisfreeman6265]

@@unitedtomato5444 who didn’t 🤷‍♂️

[@razortheonethelight7303]

@@louisfreeman6265 Everyone who said that two countries who had a McDonalds could never go to war with each other. Not a joke, a thing people thought at one point until the war.

[@deshrektives]

Counterpoint: Crimea.

[@tinman3586]

You can't underestimate what the p-demic, (really the overreaction to it not the sickness itself) did to wreck American society. But many of those issues were already there, the event just pulled back the curtain and exposed, and exasperated many underlying issues.

[@spambot_gpt7]

The event also showed how far due process & justice have sunk. Before, with the Eddy Snowdy leaks etc. everybody could pretend: "State overreach is not nice, but it doesn't affect my life" Guess what. Now, it did. And it will do it again.

[@HayseedHick]

This has been unusually edifying

[@jondspen]

This was a good one. Don't agree with a few minor points, but overall think it was spot on.

[@MrCusefan44]

I’m Gen X. I was at an airport last week and my flight was delayed, so I hit a bar and started talking to two 25 year old men that were there. It was obvious to me they were very guarded in what they were saying, until I made a comment that made it clear I understood the challenges they’d already faced and were facing now - the conversation got much more interesting and engaging after that. I’m not sure I really understood how the typical Gen X guy is perceived by younger men - but talking to my peers most of them are delusional idiots who think college is basically the same as it was in the 90s.

[@tomspriggs9478]

People get so involved in their own lives, they lose track of how things change. They move on to a different place in life and never really look back/down to see the shifting ground under their feet.

[@davedoe6445]

I went to a very male biased college (not a chad) in the 90’s and I think it feels exactly the same as the zoomers talk about today

[@notacyborg1717]

I was there for a while, but seeing my kids struggle has opened my eyes

[@jestmojo]

Celebate by choice. I’ve experienced hook-up culture and I’m absolutely disgusted by it. It feels like there’s no need to try anymore. I thought I met a rational woman through a friend and then she started talking about how she was a girlboss. I’d rather be lonely than deal with that shit.

[@Dreckmal01]

Older millennial here. You pretty much cannot describe these things to older folks. It's like trying to explain how chicken tastes to someone who never ate chicken.

[@joshuadalton6063]

Yeah its weird, I send some of the shorter clips from HM and some others to my mum, she struggles to understand without me pointing out the point. I don't send them to my dad because even mentioning some of the smaller points has him say it sounds like woman hating (I usually just say I watched some video and the video said XYZ, rather than tell him I agree myself). I dont know how exactly because they are both generally switched on and wise and are against the alphabet people and gay marriage etc, but this seems to be a blind spot perhaps from them living their whole lives with the narrative being pushed "women are wonderful, men are evil" and the like.

[@tomtom21194]

"I always wanted knowldge and understanding; now i have it and it hurts and i'm tired." Shit man, that hit me. Its like all my thinking, reading trying to understand made things harder to live in reality, not easier

[@Stoneybv]

That's what makes it beautiful

[@dustins382]

"analysis paralysis" Can't spend all your life just going for the information, at some point we must take a leap and experience something, even if there's a chance of it being bad, you just do your best to take what you've learned to mitigate risk, because obviously talking a mindless leap might end up being your last leap.

[@kaptainwarp]

I actually DO want to live through "The uprising of the Sub-8 men". It promises to be quite a spectacle.

[@Dave-um7mw]

I disagree. Every revolution was a very rough time to live through. I'll take a golden age of peace and prosperity over revolution any day.

[@city_of_coompton6832]

@@Dave-um7mw Every revolution (that's succeeded) was planned and sponsored by second-tier elites vying for the top position. They get the plebs riled up and use them as pawns.

[@frcid]

​@@Dave-um7mw well, that is not the hand we were dealt with

[@Dave-um7mw]

@@frcid compared to what? Yeah, people born in the 50s to the 70s had it better than us, but we still have electricity, running water, super fast internet, etc. We're at the end of a golden age, but it's still better right now than it was in 99.9% of human history.

[@frcid]

@@Dave-um7mw i mean, this is the only time we know to live, so we just have to live through it... but yeah sweet times... for some, for most hopefully

[@donaldbond4304]

Humans thinking are like cats swimming. they can do it, but they would really prefer not to

[@CoochSmooch]

It burns calories to think & we evolved to preserve our calories as much as possible

[@LamelKendrick]

Chat gave him a hard time but this guy is an absolute intellectual powerhouse especially at 22. Very impressed. At 50 he will be scary smart.

[@xboneyt485]

You speak like someone with limited life experience. Like a star athlete, an intellectual can also squander potential or live past their "intellectual prime". Especially if the flirt with bitter/nihilistic philosophy

[@LamelKendrick]

@@xboneyt485 i will wear limited life experience as a badge of honor

[@ephraimwinslow]

@@xboneyt485 Bro? You're talkin' like someone afflicted by "that-old-guy" syndrome. Why hector the kid for recognizing potential on the basis that it *might* go unfulfilled? That's just broadcasting pessimism under the guise of spreading wisdom. (I'd hazard to guess OP was previously aware of trainwrecks before you wheeled your handcart into earshot to tell him he don'-know-Schitt.)

[@xboneyt485]

​@@ephraimwinslow So many leaps of logic in this reply of yours. OP made a statement with no room for nuance. If you take my response to him as an attack and not a warning/other perspective. Says more about you than it does about me

[@ShadeDraws]

@@LamelKendrick I'm sure you wear being a lo ser as a badge of honor.

[@johngordon6792]

This is the best colab that I've seen hoe_math do. It's interesting to get the historical perspective on what is happening today. I've gotta say that I see signs in RL of the world getting worse, but the online environment and the news can make things seem worse than they really are. Basically I'm asking, "Are things really this bad or is it my own confirmation bias telling me these things?" This confirms that things really have gotten bad, and the shit is ready to hit the fan. This was enlightening and gave a sense of perspecitive of where things are now.

[@impudentdomain]

no things are not as bad as they seem on the internet, they are horribly worse. Why ? because at least on the internet there are some people who recognize what is going on but in real life there are millions and millions of ignorant people with their heads in the sand or who are easily manipulated by the elites.

[@nkoppa5332]

a meeting of the minds. Academia hates when disciplines connect with eachother

[@stevecooper7883]

Integration is the first historical milestone in philosophy 😊

[@Alexander_the_Average]

“For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.” Ecclesiastes 1:18 KJV

[@michaelmicek]

Interesting to compare that guy's experience with Mr Hoe's

[@Alexander_the_Average]

@@michaelmicek yes! It was a cross over I did not expect! Turned out pretty good!

[@michaelmicek]

@@Alexander_the_Average I meant the author of Ecclesiastes, presumed to be the guy renowned for his wisdom but brought down by his 900 sexual partners.

[@Alexander_the_Average]

@@michaelmicek oh yes my bad! It is Interesting to compare King Solomon and Mr. Hoe math! There is nothing new under the sun.

[@JoshWoodcock]

"Live outside and eat squirrels"

[@shivlad6229]

Yummy 😋😋😋😋

[@PBVader]

Hug bears, kiss trees and wrap your booboos with lily pads.

[@Dragonfist0]

@@PBVader😂😂😂

[@pocketz2202]

"Periods of feminisim is correlated with social degeneracy." Lmao..... Holy shit, that just made my day.

[@spambot_gpt7]

The health of a society can be measured by the relative success of productive, but naive autists vs smooth talking psychopaths & cluster Bs. Basically productivity vs manipulative proxy power. The number of books in stores that promise to teach you "the secret techniques of psychos" is very worrying.

[@miyangtangwan7046]

Hopefully you understand that correlation and causation are not the same thing. Critical thinking! There are multiple countries where feminism was adopted without the sexual liberation movement. Know the difference!

[@spambot_gpt7]

@@miyangtangwan7046 Then what those other countries did is probably not f-minism. Those were just civil rights reforms. If you look at the core writings, f-minism is a revolutionary ideology. Tammy Peterson had a good podcast titled "Deconstructing Simone de Beauvoir". James Lindsay has a ton of material about their current-day literature. The destructive ideology always pretends to be a constructive little reform. So always look twice and use logical thinking.

[@TheChantry]

One newer trend I think that's just beginning to develop is Masculine Empathy deteriorating. Men are no longer feeling that even the basic Caring/Protecting instincts of Western Society are even nominally worthwhile, as damned-if-you-damned-if you-don't attitude is prevalent. We see Men being vilified for intervening in dangerous situations, which makes any benefits non-existent and in fact detrimental.

[@CalmBeforeTheStorm76]

Finally, some actual intellectuals taking anthropology seriously and using it for what it was intended to do... which is to explain human behavior on a universal and non-biased level. Great to see you both blazing a trail that needs to be ummm...re-blazed. Lol

[@tuckerbugeater]

nonbiased lol

[@Jayr8367]

This is the crux of human history. There is always new people who haven't learned the lessons of the past. This is why tough on crime doesn't reduce crime, because there are always new people committing old crimes. The thing that reduces the crime rate has always been making less people poor and unhoused. If people have buying power to buy things and own a home they tend to commit *less* crimes because they have hope for the future. Hope is a powerful thing.

[@Wingedmagician]

hoemath has got some work to do before he can call himself an intellectual as much as I love him 😂 and not that he would

[@Marcara081]

Let me introduce you to Thinking Ape a.k.a. Stardusk who helped launch MGTOW and has been applying this information for over 15 years. 'Finally' ha ha, riiiiiight. Finally the algorithm let you see some Redpill content more like. And not the good stuff either.

[@triggeringsmuganimepfp7611]

Thinking Ape is a blackpiller. Nothing wrong with that, but he isn't interested or believes anything can be healed. I used to think alike, before knowing hoe_math. Not the he will solve the issue, he is lighting the spark.

[@blairl6304]

Well, it depends what he means by “civil war”. If he means side A and side B engaging in armed conflict, absolutely not, this is a childish viewpoint. If he means a cultural / sociological / economic civil war I’d say 100%, in fact I’d argue it’s already been going on - the battle lines were drawn in November 2016, but the open hostilities began during the lockdowns for the bug. I genuinely, truly, honestly don’t believe the 2024 election will be a fair and free election, Trump campaigned in New Jersey / New York and pulled larger crowds than the biggest rock stars even in an extremely deep blue state / area. There’s never been someone (I’m intentionally NOT using the word ‘politician’) the American people so enthusiastically support for President, Trump is a rock star, I’m in DEEP blue California, I work with people who campaigned against Trump - not FOR Biden - just against Trump, people who believed all the fake stories about him, secret Russian spy, secretly racist, going to deport all non-white people, he’s personally going to knock on their door and deport their family members, he’s going to start WWIII, etc) they couldn’t hide their EMOTIONAL reaction to Biden being declared the ‘winner’ the morning after the election when it was clear Trump had an insurmountable lead, Trump easily won, but then we all know what happened, all those magical 100% Biden mail-in-ballots started getting dumped in the exact swing states Biden was losing at 3:00am, everybody who’s intellectually honest knows they rigged itv and stuffed the ballot boxes with mail-in ballots. ANYWAY - even those people who ran around my workplace with glee, have now openly admitted they are voting for Trump this election. It’s mostly due to how terrible the economy REALLY is, how bad inflation is, how prices are exploding everywhere while nobody is getting raises to keep up with this 10-15% REAL inflation PER YEAR, and the other factor is how unstable the entire world has become under Biden. Even THEY see the weakness of Biden and the FAR LEFT who controls the administration has emboldened EVERYONE to use this opportunity of weak American leadership to make their moves. America has been weakened across the board, our interests are being attacked all over the place, and the American people are being destroyed financially. So if even the most anti-Trump people are going to vote Trump, and Trump is having rock star rallies in deeply blue areas of the country, and the polls even show him leading in all the key swing states - if he loses the people won’t except the fraud again. There’s just too many people who would be aware of the stolen election - and big tech can’t censor the conversation again since Musk bought Twitter / X. Anyway - we’re essentially in a civil war.

[@nicholaszanker-close1573]

Fuck yes my two favourite KZbin channels collabing, so good

[@pookatim]

Old man here. I just want to tell young people that life is binary. Either everything you do matters or nothing you do matters. You must decide which is correct. There is no in between. Both are rather frightening. If everything you do matters, you bear a heavy load. If nothing you do matters life has no meaning. Just remember, if everything you do matters, you matter. You have something to offer and the world will be better off with you in it. If nothing you do matters, you don't matter and the world becomes a horrible place to live.

[@Squid165]

Agreed. The boomers raising children to see life as shades of grey has ruined them. They cannot differentiate between good and evil.

[@n0b0d1-rc6dz]

Form (रूप )is emptiness (śūnyatā), emptiness (शून्यता )is form (Rūpa).

[@city_of_coompton6832]

So.... should I have oatmeal or eggs for breakfast tomorrow? This is a deep and existential question

[@city_of_coompton6832]

So.... should I have oatmeal or eggs for breakfast tomorrow? This is a deep and existential question

[@man_at_the_end_of_time]

@@city_of_coompton6832 Eggs. Oatmeal is a grain and with loaded carbs. If you must go steel cut not flakes and certainly not instant oats. ;-)

[@sonicleaves]

Love Rudyard! He's one of my favorite people.

[@ephraimwinslow]

Coining this term now: "The Real Housewives of Mouse Utopia" Someone fire up the AI image generators.

[@andrewlynch4126]

Exactly as I would have expected

[@martinjackman2943]

I laughed out loud at that... I'm definitely gonna do it😂

[@redpillsatori3020]

I generated one as well. Basically looks like: 🐭🥂👗💰🧀

[@multivariateperspective5137]

lol!

[@luigiwithabeard98]

Love both channels found whatifalt a few years ago already being a history buff and recently found how math to improve my self love both channels love the crossover

[@jakematerne]

“Intercourse between our two audiences” Talk dirty to me, Rudyard😂

[@tylerdurden5122]

Yeah that got me moist too😂😂

[@wesj1064]

Watching this video while waiting for my daughter to finish her judo class on this beautiful sunny summer Sunday when an SUV pulls up, the well dressed gentleman quickly leaves the passenger side, opens and umbrella as he promptly walks to the drivers door, opens it, out walks a woman dressed in a gown, clearly had her hair professionally done. They were clearly attending an important event, likely a wedding. The man's intent was to shelter his date from the scortching sun and gusts of wind. Seeing this, I needed to highlight this mans deed, stepped out of my car and stated "you get the award for the best boyfriend or date I've seen in ages". He quips, "where's the certificate? You should see what I did earlier!". I look directly at her, she's smiling as hard someone can, and I say, "keep that man, don't you dare let his chivalry go unacknowledged and unappreciated". She contimued to smile and walk off. Sadly, I suspect she will. Hope I am wrong.

[@johnsexton4352]

Those who don’t study history are doomed to repeat it~ Somebody, probably

[@chadcadsonvii5258]

George Santayana, I believe is first attributed to coining this phrase.

[@RJG5]

@@chadcadsonvii5258 the guy from seinfeld?

[@therearenoshortcuts9868]

those who don't know shit - are doomed to eat it (shit) lol

[@turkeytrac1]

Even better is from George Hegel, "the only thing we learn from history, is we learn nothing from history".

[@RobPtak]

Two of my very favorite KZbinrs! 😊

[@FilipMacioszek]

Same!

[@hoe_math]

Mine too!

[@benjamincaddle2018]

Never thought this combo was even possible

[@theeightbithero]

The biggest sin of the field of philosophy is convincing the world that wisdom is nothing more than a dower attitude. Choose joy, brothers. The truly wise are sober and jubilant.

[@michaelmicek]

Dour, yes. The problem is that since Thomas Aquinas, philosophy has been about how to justify rejecting his conclusions.

[@marvalice3455]

​@@michaelmicekhe is a tough act to follow, but we haven't been sending out best

[@oggassaggaoggaffa]

I think you meant "dour", but well said.

[@endofdaysg59]

Not all wise are sober

[@tomspriggs9478]

There is a time for joy, and a time for realistic assessment. This season requires much more realistic assessment and far less pie in the sky.

[@Kataklyzm510]

It's sad and hilarious but your "not people" card is my favorite, it explains so much about so many things with two words

[@jaredvaughan1665]

Instead of supporting kids, we are supporting the baby boomers' retirements through high taxes.

[@Candyman757]

This is an underrated comment

[@Trizzer89]

I can understand why young men have anxiety, because they are shat on constantly. But why do Gen Z women have so much anxiety? Is it because they insist on only dating the unattainable Chad? Or maybe they pick up on the anxiety of the boys? Or simply because they didnt touch grass while growing up?

[@pekka405]

Total spitball but probably the societally imposed need to achieve what is required for being a provider without the willingess or need to be said provider, also women tend to compare themselves to other women in terms of attractiveness (=intrasexual competition) and IG etc allows you to compare yourself to all the 10's and 11's of the world. Imagine if a middle school boy playing basketball could only compete against prime kobes, lebrons and jordans, he would probably lose all hope and self esteem. All of this might be cap btw and sources were revealed to me in a dream

[@michaelmicek]

Could be widespread emotional neglect in childhood.

[@sleeper9638]

​@@pekka405 that is what's happening already. 14 year old boys are having their heights and D lengths compared to world star athletes and being called inkwells if they can't compete. Highschool girls no longer only date highschool boys, they're only going after the top 20% of men just like all other women on the planet. All men are now held in direct compariosn with all men, doesn't matter how old they are

[@AfriqueNY]

Once being average became a dirty word average people have no choice but to feel anxiety. They are waiting for somebody to point out that they are imposters pretending to be on the right side of the bell curve

[@NoQuarterNoMercy1]

Is it just me or is it weird that Rudyard is referring to hoemath in the third person instead of the second?

[@truth-uncensored2426]

Whatifalthist is wrong that arranged marriages were not common in Europe, they were common all over Europe even as recently as 1700-1800, they were even more common among the elites and royalty. Also the inventiveness of countries inside the Hajnal line has nothing to do with the permissive treatment of women but with the average IQ of these societies, which was "boosted" by different selections events like the black plague and other "wipe out" bottlenecks, these have the effect of increasing the genetic quality of the population. Culture also matters for sure but these golden periods of high intellectual productivity have a genetic basis as well, they are solely the product of cultural practices.

[@benaiahwright937]

I agree with this

[@user-nq2oz8tf2l]

Yeah and he says it to try and make the most extreme assumptions about asian cultures. He's comparing a very short period of European history with a massive span for Asia. Ridiculous! For example when the Mongols took over China they introduced the ability for women to divorce and own property despite it falling under the very masculine and patriarchal banner bringing strict rules to adultery, order, and safe trade and even postal stations. As he himself claimed, history is messy.

[@Dave-um7mw]

Hang on. How was IQ boosted by The Black Death? Did it only kill stupid people?

[@somedandy7694]

That claim definitely made me do the Stefan Molyneux Eyebrow.

[@Colostomybong]

Good point. I'm sure he's simplifying, there are a lot of factors in a marriage system that contribute to societal outcomes. - Like if children are betrothed at a young age (for both) as political currency, then there are no accomplishments to judge the quality of the groom by, so the man doesn't have to succeed in order to gain access to reproduction for himself - it is something that comes from his family. - However if marriages are arranged later in life, then the accomplishments of the man matter a lot more in the transaction. A big change in Christian European marriage that he didn't mention was the prohibition against marrying 1st cousins, this had major effects talked about in the book "W.E.I.R.D"

[@dio2076]

"THE TREND IS DEAD" - PHA

[@antonioreconquistador]

Hell's Wrath upon dirty smelling girls

[@thegameguy911]

Honestly a better crossover event than infinity war, i only have one question: where can i sign up for the levels of thinking evaluation? Im very interested and want to participate in more of these type events. Much love, thank you both for this peculiar moment even my perents agree with the things youre both speaking!

[@hoe_math]

Linktree in bio

[@thegameguy911]

@@hoe_math bet (unironically)

[@michaellamont2605]

AWESOME ❤ 2 of my favourite creators 🎉 Thanks guys!

[@ceasersherniateddisk8614]

Ive been watching both of you for a while now, this has got to be the best crossover in a long time

[@kgyore]

Great conversations, Mr Hoe. I am glad that you're doing this. Keep asking questions and discussing these issues. We all need to get through this.

[@aquious953]

Impressed with both of your work

[@Lucas-og1xq]

Hoe Math how do I get in touch with you? Me and some other creators are living in cabins north of Houston. You can have one to yourself if you’re interested.

[@hoe_math]

inbox me on my linktree - link in bio

[@Lucas-og1xq]

@@hoe_math messaged you

[@LamelKendrick]

Houston is sprawling American mediocrity, hope its 15+ miles out of the city limits

[@itsnick37]

Lucas that’s a bad location to be in…. Haven for illegals around you I would relocate.

[@ShadeDraws]

@@LamelKendrick You would know about mediocrity. You see it in the mirror every day. lol

[@xiennorth]

That was incredible and we need more of this - between you two and MORE.

[@americancapitalist9094]

I’m really digging these collabs. Great discussions.

[@mmmaxwell5374]

1:12:30 Around this spot there’s talk of how much it costs to support a family. I used to do cost of living research so be a little skeptical with those numbers. Ask how those numbers were achieved. A better question is what’s the average income of families in an area. We know of families with 4 or more children and they appear to live‘comfortably’. And we live in an expensive urbanized east coast area. Yes. Many of them bought homes before prices were crazy, have assistance from family members and are part of communities where there’s another level of support. Also they adjust lifestyle, kids share rooms, Goodwill shopping, old cars, no eating out, cheap vacations (not Disney. Think staying with relatives, camping locally, car trips) and general economizing.

[@SpikeJonesTheCr0oked]

Or maybe, just maybe those people have good jobs

[@mmmaxwell5374]

@@SpikeJonesTheCr0oked Contractor with his own business, a Sargent, a manager, yes I guess those are good jobs.

[@Colostomybong]

Agree. Whenever someone quotes a statistic you gotta look at the methodology for calculating it. BS statistics get accepted by the masses bc it conforms to our existing biases/feelings (Life feels expensive), and then they irresponsibly get repeated by authority figures. *Have hope* I know lots of people raising families in my city that earn half of the ~$200k number that map had for our state. 200K in the South or Midwest is an upper-middle class, top 25% lifestyle. Generations of humans have raised families on far less.

[@CuriousGeorge13]

I think a fundamental reason why modern academic historians don't concern themselves with patterns in history or the relevance of that to the present moment is that the vast majority have an ideological commitment to the liberal notion of progress and progressivism. If we are constantly on some utopian upward trajectory, then why would the past be relevant in that way? It is magical thinking, but much of the establishment is so deeply entrenched in the liberal project that they likely can't imagine any other possibility.

[@MoneyInMouthProductions]

This was absolutely spectacular! I sincerely hope there is a part 2!

[@samuelmontenegroserniotti7146]

Whenever the other person has a sound disconection, talk to them and ask them to repeat the last 10 seconds of what they said. Helps a lot.

[@Isaax]

2 behemoths podcasting together, lets fucking go

[@robertlorenz2492]

You guys should Collab more often and he should go on Michael Sartain show access Vegas. You guys are both doing well there each fact that was repeated was just a home run and it’s the best I’ve ever heard someone articulate the downfall of a society. Great job.

[@86shelby]

I was thinking a show with Rollo would be a thought-provoking show.

[@user-pz7ux1lv7f]

Thanks for the video, I found your channel today and I'm really enjoying this content!

[@PooplexCanal]

26 minutes in and I must say that Whatifalthist's summing up what I've been thinking for some time now and couldn't put into words, for a young man he speaks very maturely. Onto the rest of the talk!

[@multivariateperspective5137]

The historical trends are aggregates of local acute data samples integrated in various ways to a simplistic stand ins. One of the largest problems is that most people cannot truly (I’m simplifying by merging those without the cerebral hardware or also those without the emotional-intellectual development) to truly understand multivariate analysis applied to current society

[@michaelmicek]

Fair enough, but what does your analysis suggest?

[@lentilreflection2676]

What is the "haginot line" that Rudyard mentioned at 24:00?

[@Joe-sg9ll]

Hajnal

[@Joe-sg9ll]

West Europe from East Europe, roughly

[@yumtig7444]

Maginot Line was built to separate France from Germany "for ever". It was never used. Now, roughly 100 years later it is quietly rotting away.

[@alanhorkan]

The context isn't entirely clear to me but I believe he's referring to the Hajnal line, part of the work of John Hajnal who studied marriage patterns. (He definitely was not talking about the Maginot Line of fortifications that the French built to defend against Nazi Germany, that resulted in Germany invading through the Benelux countries instead.)

[@danieltoledo9383]

The way he describes it I AM THINKING 1950s.

[@stalfosguardian5573]

I love both of your channels gentlemen. This is a great collaboration.

[@frankjennings4489]

“Asian societies haven’t really conquered anything since 1000 AD” *Genghis Khan has entered the chat

[@alexdunphy3716]

He ment settled societies. The Mongolians succeeded because they were basically running a mostly ancient European style of a rancher-warrior society which is what allowed them(and various prior europeans peoples) to conquer so much

[@sonicleaves]

Just finished this video and it was fantastic! Rudyard, please do a video on magical thinking!

[@Rinne0000]

The crossover I didn’t know I neeeded 😂

[@sub.sa.3058]

A big recommendation is the documentary series The Century of the Self, it's even here in youtube. Gives a lot of context to how we think about things today and how these started.

[@Danbecker000]

"I always wanted knowledge and understanding. Now I have it and it hurts." I have never related to anything more. Put it on a t-shirt and I'll buy one.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

“The greater my wisdom, the greater my grief. To increase knowledge only increases sorrow.” ‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭1‬:‭18‬ ‭NLT‬‬

[@RyanPatrickFlanagan]

1:12:56 mark - dude be putting Homer and Marge Simpson on the 1-10 matrix. Just earned himself a new subscriber.

[@denali1566]

1:21:55 "I feel like... I always wanted knowledge and understanding, but now, it hurts, and I'm tired." I did not come here to be called out like that

[@danielstevens6384]

Awesome discussion gents, hope you do more in the future!!

[@dolphincheddarsoup]

Nice collaboration; both creators make me feel less than/unproductive in my 30s 😅

[@jaredarmstrong7403]

Yup, just turned 30 last year and trying not to be on the edge of the decline.

[@hoe_math]

I was bottom 20th percentile income for like 17 years don't stress

[@Butlins14]

​@@hoe_mathI'm top 1% and bench 350lbs and I'm still invisible to women

[@Jaydavid25.]

Yeah, I just turned 30 as well, and oof.. But like Hoe_math said, I won't stress.. LOL..

[@somedandy7694]

3 weeks late. I'm 37 and entered my 30s being looked down on (for being old, not being a bad boy, not having enough sexperience). I worked on upping my charisma and embracing my hobby. Find people that share your interests and the connections will make you feel better. We're still young. We will adapt.

[@algorithmgeneratedanimegir1286]

Did those mice have autism, or were they just horrified?

[@David.Isaac.147]

Bruh 🤯

[@Dogman262]

They developed several mental illnesses actually, there were separate categories of how the mice reacted to their situation, watch Frederick knudsens and/or Whatifalthis videos on it

[@earx23]

They were desperate to optimize SQL queries but they couldn't type.

[@theflamingone8729]

Good point, an inability to socialise in a dysfunctional society is hardly symptomatic of a disorder.

[@michaelmicek]

I've recently learned that CPTSD can be misdiagnosed as autism. When Rudyard said that, hoe_math did question it, and he explained (indirectly) that he was using the term "autistic" informally.

[@aklisven]

Great conversation. Thanks a lot

[@OfficialCronex]

Insanely good content keep it up, people need to start listening!

[@guardian218]

I really enjoyed this conversation. Due to the hoe_math channel…I’ve really been vested in trying to understand more over the last year and lead to the purchase (from Amazon) of roughly 60+ books across psychology, sociology and so on. I just subbed Mr Lynch’s channel and I enjoyed the hell out of the information he provided. Last year was a shit year for me and I felt very defeated as I’m now in my 40’s a lot of things I’ve learned over my life has somewhat depressed me…I agree to an extent ignorance is bliss. What I discovered last year was that the purpose to keep me going and not want to slowly repeat the same negative thinking for outcomes and allow excessive rumination which lead to depression and lots of anxiety as I worried the type of world my son would have to face…I realized, I’ve been able to give people hope by trying to motivate them to do a little bit more and try a little hard and work with them on what direction to take. It’s very small elements but I discounted how much little changes can lead to long term changes and that I genuinely feel good when I can help people make progress and believe I can do so much how to bring people up with me. *Rambling and grammar issues aside hopefully that made sense. So long story long…your content is helpful so please don’t give up. I’m not sure we can stop all of this but maybe like the Asimov Foundation novel…we can shorten the duration of any collapse and set things in place to create a set of documents or content to help those that come after us be lead to a set of ideas or instructions and cut out some despair and heartache. I guess we will see. I want to check out your test and help in any way I can. To anyone that reads this…keep developing yourself and hone your skills and talents. You can be more influential than you realize.

[@barrackobama2422]

No fucking way Rudyard just said "Part of the ship, part of the crew"

[@somedandy7694]

I constantly say that at work.

[@Ghaos]

Thank you both for doing this, you both are favorite youtubers as of late, and I really dig your contributions. Two question: For Whatif: in America should we expect the mouse utopia to be universal, or will it only happen to the American Left? For Hoe_math:, since online media and street interviews appear to be the primary way you receive sociological data, have you considered the possibility that the data may be skewed based on the interviewers and interviewees desire for virality and not truth/accuracy?

[@UnityFromDiversity]

Great conversation.

[@HayseedHick]

I’m very glad these articulate non-delusional voices are getting traction. I thought I had found these two ‘gem stones’ and fancied that there were at least a few people that could ‘explain things’ and that I wasn’t the delusional one. Turns out … there is a bunch of us that like content based on facts. Their assessments make sense. Maybe it’s my KZbin algorithm feeding me ‘just what I want’ … or maybe truth is making a comeback. Lies spread quickly -> it takes truth a while to catch up.

[@aisackson]

We live during very insane times, but it's important to remember that the people driving this insanity aren't having kids. We are screwed, but in a couple generations more functional cultures will replace this one. Hopefully those people learn from our mistakes.

[@jaredarmstrong7403]

Yeah, but they’re also ruining the future for the people that are having kids.

[@KT-pv3kl]

In a couple generations we will have a cyberpunk dystopian version of neofeudalism where the top 1% control 99% of everything with enough technology to prevent any form of uprising or revolution via drugs , social engineering, genetic manipulation and algorithms controlling and monitoring every aspect of society.

[@kkkmmmhy]

Oh really? Then why does Ursula von der Leyen and other influential politicians have so many children? It's exactly the people who are making the world a circus right now the ones who are going to pass on the rule to their children. Ordinary people and their opinions, no matter how looney-tooney they are, don't really matter that much as they are simply cogs in the machine and not the "clockmaker".

[@jem77469]

It doesn't matter that the insane ones aren't having kids. The problem is their memes, not their genes. Their methods of reproduction include Tiktok, Instagram, public schools, and many more.

[@tomspriggs9478]

True, but the population setback will be huge, and will create a sizable opening for the Muslims to take a lot of ground in the world if not most of it.

[@kenthedude2758]

Great video. Definitely challenged a few ideas I had about history.

[@lentilreflection2676]

What study is Mr. Hoe referencing regarding family income at 1:15:19?

[@bsalamak]

Just google it

[@Jawshuah]

based collaboration

[@HayseedHick]

A list of recommended books?

[@S.J.L]

Check out Unwin's "Sex and Culture", Moore and Gillette's "King, Warrior, Magician, Lover" and David Anthony's "The Horse, The Wheel and Language." There are videos and summaries online too.

[@nickc3856]

Cat in the Hat and Harry Potter

[@HayseedHick]

@@nickc3856 ive already read those

[@BobTheBuilderGuy]

The bible. But actually read and understand it. If you’ve read that then try Dostoyevsky. Maybe try war and peace. All good books/writers.

[@BobTheBuilderGuy]

But don’t just read them. Think about what you’ve read. Draw through lines to history and todays reality. 1- helps you remember the book once your done2- helps you better understand the world

[@allynboice]

When i hear a women complain that they have been oppressed since the beginning, i remind them of the oracles from ancient greek had the power of the judge, jury, and executioner. Eventually the abuse of power ended that, which is possibly why women were oppressed afterward

[@fantasia243645]

This was a great conversation. This is definitely a video to rematch. 💛

[@patterson96392]

Damn this is good content

[@maxjosephwheeler]

*I'm so glad to have you guys as Internet friends.*

[@utarefson9]

This was an interesting talk, and i'd like to see more of this in the future. However, Rudyard cutting out was very unfortunate as he's getting lots of data out really quickly, so it would be nice if in the future he'd record the video as well so you can use that as a VOD.

[@immanuelkant6607]

Great idea to make this channel a platform! More of this please! As long as there's knowledge over just information.

[@multivariateperspective5137]

Excellent quote You need to have an equal amount of faith and logic. Too much logic without faith turns into mental masturbation. So awesome.

[@shellshocktm]

Oh man, the live chat was rough. I've been watching Rudyard for a while and I can vouch that he's done his homework and knows what he's talking about. I don't expect viewers of this channel to understand. No offense to hoe math but most of the people his videos attract wouldn't be joining mensa any time soon but the irony is that underneath the provocative channel name and childlike drawings there's a good groundwork for real social science that will go right over a lot of dudes' heads as they're just perusing youtube, looking for more content dunking on women.

[@chrismay2298]

Another "smartest guy in the room"... LOL!

[@Grahamulet]

Great point. I often find myself in the trap of "Haha I wanna see women get dunked on", but Rudyard really gives out great explanations of why things are the way they are without insults or jokes. Love HM, of course, but the deeper understanding is great.

[@DavidPeacockChannel]

Will Durant wrote that a reason for the fall of Rome was that the government failed to attract first rate men. These first rate men worked on their own careers and establishing wealth while disconnecting from directing the state.

[@BarnJ]

Great collaboration, I'd love to see you guys do a regular crossover episode.

[@pPunktG]

Predict a Civil war within the next year is crazy 😂 i dont think the people in usa have it that bad.. it is not congo, Venezuela or Myanmar... They have it bad.. but you never know i guess.. im not the expert

[@Colostomybong]

I agree, civil war/major conflict in the next 12 months seems like a Q-anon-ish BS type of prediction. I think they probably dropped in in there to boost their ratings with the millions of YoutTube Doomers out there. Whenever I hear people talk about civil war in the USA I'm like... How stupid are you? Go visit the Congo, or any developing country, and then tell me you think that a civil war in the US is going to improve your standard of living. The poorest person the USA is still better off than half of the world population is. Americans spend too much time looking at the elites above them and not enough time looking at the billions of people below them. I'm surprised that they didn't touch on this element of status anxiety.