Fender Upgrades The Critically Important Player Series! All-New Fender Player II

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Alamo Music Center

Alamo Music Center

Күн бұрын

The Fender Player Series is a critically important series of guitars for Fender. Representing the entry into the world of Fender branded guitars, the player series has long offered killer features on classic models at a price aimed at budding musicians. As prices have continued to creep up over the year Fender has sought to add new features without raising the price and giving players more of what they want, namely fantastic sound, playability and looks. The new Player II series updates these guitars with new neck shapes, rolled edges the return of rosewood and new classic colors. Check out Cooper's full review and preview of more models to come.
Shop Fender Player II Series: www.alamomusic.com/collection...
0:00 Intro
1:30 Player II Updates
10:02 Player II Telecaster Demo
11:49 Player II Stratocaster Demo
14:18 Final Thoughts
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CHECK OUT OUR PODCAST, the Fretboard Confessional!
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Пікірлер: 144
@DaringDan
@DaringDan 21 күн бұрын
This is great. The used market will be even better for buyers now. A Player Series for $500 will be a steal.
@retiredguyadventures6211
@retiredguyadventures6211 11 күн бұрын
Not getting rid of my Player strat. I might get a Player II neck for it when they come out thouhg.
@bengreenbank
@bengreenbank 8 күн бұрын
Picked up a brand new player 1 tele for £500 in the UK yesterday. Love that fender is bringing out the player 2 😂😂 Think I’ll grab a strat too if I see one in a nice colour for £400ish
@philzlz
@philzlz 21 күн бұрын
ROSEWOOD WELCOME BACK BABY ❤
@RabindraDahal-ie7sb
@RabindraDahal-ie7sb 20 күн бұрын
Yeah
@jojojojojojojojojojojojob
@jojojojojojojojojojojojob 20 күн бұрын
its a mixed bag. some player 2 rosewood still looks like pau ferro.
@mr.smithgnrsmith7808
@mr.smithgnrsmith7808 19 күн бұрын
Meanwhile other companies have been selling GREAT guitars with beautiful Indian rosewood boards the last 5 yrs…EART is one that’s been killing it
@ClockworkDave
@ClockworkDave 21 күн бұрын
I think they nailed it, especially that red with rosewood. Going to sell a ton.
@MervGinsberg-sc8kp
@MervGinsberg-sc8kp 21 күн бұрын
Every guitar Cooper plays sounds like the best guitar ever made!
@wikolib6821
@wikolib6821 21 күн бұрын
Yeah. Cooper and Jonathan at Casino Guitars could play a homemade box guitar made out of cardboard and we would be going Wow. Hehe.
@migononet2637
@migononet2637 21 күн бұрын
Birch Green...top color!
@Merglet
@Merglet 15 күн бұрын
100% agree! The photos on the Fender site don't even come close to doing it justice, they look terrible! But WHEW it's pretty in person.
@DIGITAL7Media
@DIGITAL7Media 7 күн бұрын
Sold out color on Sweetwater.
@drlt9241
@drlt9241 21 күн бұрын
I love it! I just don't know why I can't get the aquatone blue strat with rosewood!
@aerobrain2001
@aerobrain2001 3 күн бұрын
Yeah that would look awesome!
@ronmoore1219
@ronmoore1219 21 күн бұрын
Thank you. That was a great showcase. I like the changes in the II. Especially the rolled fret board edges and the vintage tuners. Every time I change strings on my Am Performer, I appreciate the tuners more. And rosewood fret boards are a very welcome change. Nothing wrong with Pao Ferro. I just haven’t been a fan of its color. Well, I’m interested in the routed mahogany and ash bodies, so I’ll eagerly wait for their introduction. Great video, Cooper, thanks again.
@jasonswitzer1748
@jasonswitzer1748 21 күн бұрын
You knocked “Hiya-Lee-ah” out of the park. It’s an area of Miami. Color name makes sense when you think about the location. Got those South Florida vibes. Also, while I don’t like the look of the modern Tele bridges, that guitar makes all the right Tele sounds. Can’t complain about the pickups. As for the Strat… they aren’t my jam (sounds too thin for what I play), but if I were in the market for a Strat, this would 100% be my jam. Nice color choices, like the aged hardware, vintage tuners, rosewood with rounded fretboard and 2 point trem. Not sure what more you could ask for in terms of a Strat.
@markkoher3468
@markkoher3468 21 күн бұрын
Hi Cooper,... I remember back in the early 2000's when Pau Ferro was a boutique option with a higher price tag... hahaha .... As always y'all do a great job of showing off the gear... well done once again :-)
@tylerk1013
@tylerk1013 19 күн бұрын
​@Bodiddley788 Yeah bro, it's only a thing b/c Suhr started using it. Then Fender and others went to it after there were some export/import/travel restrictions on Rosewood
@ereimul1444
@ereimul1444 21 күн бұрын
time for Fender Roadworn ii with rosewood.
@telefrk49
@telefrk49 18 күн бұрын
yes!!!
@chris5375
@chris5375 20 күн бұрын
I love the birch green Tele ❤
@josephlerz6889
@josephlerz6889 7 күн бұрын
same
@69telecasterplayer
@69telecasterplayer 21 күн бұрын
Glad to see the rosewood come back. I was planning to get an American Prof II strat just to get the rosewood board but now this option is looking good.
@sharkmanyt4431
@sharkmanyt4431 16 күн бұрын
I just got a brand new player ii. So much better
@Nate-vk7gu
@Nate-vk7gu 16 күн бұрын
I own a professional 2 it’s miles above the player I had for a long time I would recommend it’s an instrument that can last a life time
@BreadandFaxes
@BreadandFaxes 17 күн бұрын
That Birch Green tele is beautiful. Im smelling a backup tele. Drop a wilkinson bridge with brass saddles and locking tuners and she is good to go.
@sneakerhead6184
@sneakerhead6184 21 күн бұрын
Another awesome review guys 👍👌 i still have my player series tele(first real guitar) and its my favorite guitar to this day. Im a lefty so my options are limited lol
@mortonwilson795
@mortonwilson795 20 күн бұрын
Thanks - great sneak peek! Look forward to checking out the Jaguars. Rosewood - yes!
@bryancollins6796
@bryancollins6796 21 күн бұрын
You can get chambered ash? Do you mean Fender will now sell you an Ash-hole?
@astrofire68
@astrofire68 21 күн бұрын
That Tele - Birch green with Rosewood 😍
@gddion
@gddion 21 күн бұрын
I paid $350 for my Standard Tele but that was 25 years ago and the new ones are better guitars with a lot more options. I've actually seen guitars exactly like my old one on Reverb for $600, not sure who's paying that.
@rexomatic8667
@rexomatic8667 16 күн бұрын
Nice playing and demo.
@jamesgretsch4894
@jamesgretsch4894 20 күн бұрын
These will be big sellers. I liken it to the California Series by Fender in the mid to late 1990s. They made a big splash and these will too.
@wikolib6821
@wikolib6821 21 күн бұрын
Good move on Fender's part. I'm interested.
@argento8447
@argento8447 16 күн бұрын
That's great news, in particular the neck edges improvements, I tried a coulpe of "old" Players and I wasn't really convinced by the feel of the neck, but I absolutely loved the Player Plus series' ones. I really hoped we could choose between maple and rosewood fingerboard without being binded to a specific body colour (I would immediately buy an aquatone blue Tele if it came with maple fingerboard), but I guess we can't get everything.
@Ringer1982
@Ringer1982 21 күн бұрын
Great playing
@simonmodig
@simonmodig 20 күн бұрын
You just have to fingerpick a red strat :) Very good playing! Beautiful guitars!
@ivansucha1
@ivansucha1 18 күн бұрын
I am interesting in HH Tele Coral Red. Will there be also RW neck version? I can find everywere only MN version. Don't you konw whether coil-split is possible on Player II Telecaster HH? It is not mentioned on Fender website. On Player series it was possible. Thank you for any answer :)
@nowhereismyhome1458
@nowhereismyhome1458 20 күн бұрын
Lefty’s inbound too. My first Tele is in production 🙂
@billybat5790
@billybat5790 18 күн бұрын
i played the red one and tho needed a setup, felt way better! neck feels round and thin but still enough meat to grab
@JakeL202
@JakeL202 21 күн бұрын
I live in Montreal Canada and the Player II series go for $1150 to over $1200 CDN, of course our Dollar is worth less than the US dollar, so $700 or so is a good price. Seems like Fender has to keep up with Sterling (Music Man) and Sire.
@wikolib6821
@wikolib6821 21 күн бұрын
Yeah, that's tough paying Canadian, makes US prices look great.
@TheFloridaBikeVlogger
@TheFloridaBikeVlogger 21 күн бұрын
I love my players strat from 2021 but always tempted when I see new stuff coming out. not sure i can get away with another guitar tho
@stefpenfield5918
@stefpenfield5918 21 күн бұрын
All my Strats are maple, so the rosewood is sorta calling to me. I have a pao ferro Mustang, but like the darker look.
@MellowFellow137
@MellowFellow137 20 күн бұрын
great playing man
@chefboy6123
@chefboy6123 21 күн бұрын
I snagged a brand New FSR Player 1 Fiesta Red ~ with Custom Shop PUPS and Roasted Maple Neck for $500 - I 'm Good!!!!
@Astronaut_FX
@Astronaut_FX 20 күн бұрын
It's hard to get a good look at the Tele bridge assembly. Anyone know if you could swap out that bridge assembly for a more traditional bridge assembly without the need for drilling, etc.?
@powbobs
@powbobs 19 күн бұрын
No
@TheRealxVincent
@TheRealxVincent 20 күн бұрын
That P bass would match my strat perfectly 🤔
@efeseymen1015
@efeseymen1015 21 күн бұрын
i hope that fender player plus rosewood options also would come up 😔
@williamchamberlain1266
@williamchamberlain1266 19 күн бұрын
Will Fender be making any changes to the Player Plus series any time soon? I've got my eye on the tele
@unitedtomato5444
@unitedtomato5444 15 күн бұрын
iPhone's guitar emoji looks like that coral red strat 🎸
@stevetunick7501
@stevetunick7501 20 күн бұрын
It’s pronounced Hi-a-lee-uh, Cooper ! (from a transplanted New Yorker in Pittsburgh) - Hope to visit someday! I’m a fan of you guys-
@NickMcC
@NickMcC 21 күн бұрын
Nice! Do you think anything is changing with the Player Plus series with this release?
@sagittated
@sagittated 20 күн бұрын
It would not surprise me if that series got an upgrade next, but they're not part of this update.
@syzl___
@syzl___ 21 күн бұрын
The duo sonic is forgotten yet again
@scke3717
@scke3717 16 күн бұрын
Nice colors. Worth buying just for a rosewood board?
@chuck8902
@chuck8902 19 күн бұрын
Nice grooving!
@pzolsky
@pzolsky 21 күн бұрын
I’m waiting for Player iii
@jaykelley103
@jaykelley103 19 күн бұрын
IV or V for me
@photonewbie8065
@photonewbie8065 20 күн бұрын
:Looks like the Player II Mustang will be a hard tail instead of a tremelo. I don't see the Duo Sonic in this new lineup. So is the Player Duo Sonic discontinued?
@jamesmata4579
@jamesmata4579 21 күн бұрын
Trying to decide between Player II & Player Plus, any thoughts? I know one of the differences is the noiseless pickups that come with the plus. I just don’t know if it’s worth the extra $200 or so.
@jasonswitzer1748
@jasonswitzer1748 21 күн бұрын
Give it time… I’ll bet you a cheeseburger that this time next year there will be a Player Plus II, with the rolled fingerboard, vintage tuners, etc.
@daviddenoncourt757
@daviddenoncourt757 21 күн бұрын
They both have the rolled edges, I think the main selling point of the Plus is a more refined look with the tortoise shell pickguards and suck, some limited edition also have roasted maple neck if you can grab that too.
@sagittated
@sagittated 20 күн бұрын
Big difference is the player plus have the flatter 12" radius. Player II have the standard 9.5.
@dcamnc1
@dcamnc1 21 күн бұрын
I wish they had put tall narrow frets on these. I don't like med jumbos personally.
@wikolib6821
@wikolib6821 21 күн бұрын
Kinda agree with you but I just go with it.
@ivylotus9991
@ivylotus9991 17 күн бұрын
I like rosewood. I like rolled fretboards. I am not crazy about the colors or the old style (PITA, IMO) slot-top tuners. These will likely sell very well, though, as I do not think most people care strongly either way about the tuners.
@mojo6778
@mojo6778 19 күн бұрын
I am not able to access your website, is anyone else reporting this as an issue?
@KRAZEEIZATION
@KRAZEEIZATION 4 күн бұрын
It’s good to see rosewood again but I wouldn’t buy one of these models because the Strat has that horrible 2 point bridge and the Tele has a 6 saddle bridge. Cooper is a killer player!
@anmolatwal
@anmolatwal 21 күн бұрын
What's that green cursor flying on the screen???
@abrahamdavidsmith
@abrahamdavidsmith 21 күн бұрын
You mean the oscilloscope?
@RabindraDahal-ie7sb
@RabindraDahal-ie7sb 20 күн бұрын
Tempted me to buy Player 2 series Telecaster Yellow colour.
@pgrove
@pgrove 21 күн бұрын
Aside from that green, those colors are meh. I'm interested to see a demo of the HH tele though.
@alexstrums
@alexstrums 20 күн бұрын
These Player II strats seem VERY similar to the Vintera II’s… Ok different neck radius and trem bridge. Am I missing something here?
@user-pf7xy8nz3t
@user-pf7xy8nz3t 14 күн бұрын
For the demo part he changed the saddles on the tele. I wonder.
@MelodyCarroll-rx8tk
@MelodyCarroll-rx8tk 21 күн бұрын
I'd still rather have a Vintera II strat.
@damham5689
@damham5689 21 күн бұрын
Why is it even affordable guitars like Harley Benton and even Squier can put binding in guitars, but Fender cant seem to do it unless its over a $1000 guitar ? I personally like binding on my guitars..
@BadgerBarf
@BadgerBarf 19 күн бұрын
Telecaster HH video when you get one in please!
@ayidn.h
@ayidn.h 20 күн бұрын
Sounds better than Vintage ||...!! The red one!
@ayidn.h
@ayidn.h 20 күн бұрын
And also affordable!!
@JC-ee8qm
@JC-ee8qm 7 күн бұрын
Dude didn't look too impressed with these Players did he? 15:47 Fair enough. I'm a lefty and normally could only dream of an acquatone color, but for regular guys, it's hardly the second coming of JC
@RickFoxx777
@RickFoxx777 13 күн бұрын
They look nice and sound nice but... as usual, the neck is the same ole neck on every guitar (for the last 5 years or so) under $1000.00 and it is either a modern C or regular C or a deep C (I have played them all and basically they are all the same...nothing special at all). I personally have not purchased a Fender strat for over 5 years because all the soft V necks are either signature strats, or soft V with a 7.5 radius and cheap poplar and Basswood bodies or a custom shop strat which IMO, the price for them is just way to high for most working musicians. Consider this, you can get a FireFly strat with Locking Tuners, Roasted Maple Neck, Bone Nut, Alder Body or Ash, Alnico 5 Pups and Stainless Steel Frets all for under $200.00 and they sound great. Yeah sure, they only have C necks but for the price, I myself bit the bullet and bought two at Christmas for under $300.00 plus shipping. For me it's easier to buy a FireFly and swap out the neck for a soft V ($299.00 for a Fender neck or $169.00 for a Fender knock off at Northwest guitars) and still have a great guitar under $500.00. If Fender ever gets it together again and decides to make a decent (under 900.00) guitar with a soft V neck AND A 9.5 radius with an ALDER or ASH body (at the very least) then I may start buying them again. Just my 2 cents worth. Peace.
@indigos290
@indigos290 21 күн бұрын
Smh! Now I gotta get another guitar!
@keithdavis5464
@keithdavis5464 20 күн бұрын
What happened to the Player Plus
@dantedimaano9556
@dantedimaano9556 21 күн бұрын
does it come with a gig bag
@sagittated
@sagittated 20 күн бұрын
Nope. Upside is you get to choose which color case you want.
@martianmurray
@martianmurray 21 күн бұрын
New OFFSETS!
@quiksilver78
@quiksilver78 16 күн бұрын
Good demo and coverage but why do people gloss over the hardware with a simple "upgraded hardware" well, what's upgraded? From here it looks like the same from the Player I series and if all the electronics are the same (why would they change that) same with the body material, the only change I see is all in the neck. So, can I just buy a new neck for my Player I?
@sleepwalkingman6303
@sleepwalkingman6303 19 күн бұрын
Rosewood doesn't look rosewood-y enough😏
@rodnyg7952
@rodnyg7952 20 күн бұрын
♫....gotta' move these Strat-o-casters, Gotta' move these new colored TeleeEEEEeEEesEs....♫
@JmSmith751
@JmSmith751 21 күн бұрын
So, fender is the new squier killer??
@DbiPro
@DbiPro 5 күн бұрын
Thanks to all the KZbinrs that complained we didn’t have rosewood
@viniciuscomacento
@viniciuscomacento 11 күн бұрын
rosewood
@ThomasBN4G
@ThomasBN4G 21 күн бұрын
So the Player's are guitars made from the old Corona machines after 2016.
@rigorhead01
@rigorhead01 19 күн бұрын
I want to see Cooper as the front man of a wailing, screaming, hollering rock band!! 🤣
@SiddharthKarunakaran
@SiddharthKarunakaran 20 күн бұрын
🎸I always wanted an emoji guitar.
@azerbouf
@azerbouf 20 күн бұрын
So the main difference of Player II is just the color? According to the specs from their website, they have exact same specs as for Player I...
@powbobs
@powbobs 19 күн бұрын
Vintage tuners and rolled edges. Have you considered actually watching the video?
@mikeadams4605
@mikeadams4605 21 күн бұрын
Fender finally doing an ash body again......but it's chambered.....Cmon man
@andyvitali7510
@andyvitali7510 9 күн бұрын
Give us a nitro version please
@josephkeating3597
@josephkeating3597 21 күн бұрын
The Player Plus at $999.00 and they have locking tunners, noiseless pickups and a push pull pot. So why would I want to buy one of these?? BTW, I bought a player Plus Tele last year. Nice ax!
@macbeth642
@macbeth642 19 күн бұрын
so then buy the player plus? Who is stopping you? What point is this trying to prove.
@Mexxx65
@Mexxx65 21 күн бұрын
Some cool new colors, and body materials/construction. - still no locking tuners - still no block saddles - still no pickup upgrade from the old models Player Series Alnico 5's - not a real bone nut - still a "black plastic" truss rod cover - made now in Indonesia I've heard
@wikolib6821
@wikolib6821 21 күн бұрын
Sweetwater has Player II Strats and Teles in stock and the photos of the back of the headstocks show MX in front of the serial number and also say "Made in Ensenada".
@AlamoMusic
@AlamoMusic 21 күн бұрын
The guitars are made in Ensenada, Mexico. The Player Plus models do have locking tuners and block saddles. A nice thing about the classicgear tuners on the Player II is that they are vintage looking modern mount which means you can drop locking tuners in with no modifictation - Chris
@wikolib6821
@wikolib6821 21 күн бұрын
@@AlamoMusic Thanks Chris. Good to know.
@ml2054
@ml2054 21 күн бұрын
You should really research or at the very least think before you make statements lol “They’re made in Indonesia now.” Lol what??
@Mexxx65
@Mexxx65 20 күн бұрын
@@ml2054 Yeah I spent every single hour last night, sifting over every single spec I could find online on the new Fender player II Stratocaster....before I typed my first comment.......are you for real? I had read some of these new player IIs were being manufactured in an Indonesian plant. Its just a comment mate. Do I have to reach your "Bible" commenting status before I type a youtube comment now?
@robertoabdall
@robertoabdall 15 күн бұрын
Kinda hate this iFender marketing (?) What´s next, Vintera and Player Pro Max?
@simonmodig
@simonmodig 20 күн бұрын
Hawktuah Yellow
@BreadandFaxes
@BreadandFaxes 17 күн бұрын
Standard mexican strats used to be $500 and came with shitty hardware, and ceramic pickups. They now are like $750-850 and have alnico pickups, better hardware, better tuners, better trems, no more shitty zinc trem block, rolled edges. I mean, and these guitars are workhorses for studio and live. Buy one, get it set up well and it can do anything you need it to.
@BreadandFaxes
@BreadandFaxes 17 күн бұрын
I bought an American Telecaster and Japanese Tele last year and since have sold them both. My Pacific Peach Tele sounds and plays better than both so I kept it and it's my main Tele.
@braddietzmusic2429
@braddietzmusic2429 19 күн бұрын
You can say it: “…because the American Series is…” Any guess? “…really EXPENSIVE…”
@airtimedesign
@airtimedesign 20 күн бұрын
Hi-Ah-Lee-Ah
@daynmitchell7543
@daynmitchell7543 17 күн бұрын
Ahh so that’s why the old ones were on sale lol
@herewegoagain7403
@herewegoagain7403 21 күн бұрын
oh rosewood making a comeback? 10+ years from now, the player strat w pau-ferro fretboard will be sought after.
@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342
@soyborne.bornmadeandundone1342 19 күн бұрын
I'm too much of a fancy boy guitarist to dig this cheap crap. BUT... That being said they seem like pretty decent guitars for cheap crap. Great guitar to get into for starters : )
@oliverhenkel376
@oliverhenkel376 20 күн бұрын
The illusion that you could play as good as Cooper if you buy this (or any guitar that he shows us) guitar... Quality of a guitar: 5% Quality of Cooper playing: 95%
@oliverhenkel376
@oliverhenkel376 20 күн бұрын
and don't get me wrong: If I had the money, I would buy every guitar Cooper presents - just he's such a nice guy!
@thombat999
@thombat999 17 күн бұрын
Hialeah = Hi ( as in hello) - uh - lee - uh
@joesmith8398
@joesmith8398 21 күн бұрын
All the videos ive seen for these, the guitars sound very "tinny" and bright, unpleasantly so.
@VictorBlakerst
@VictorBlakerst 19 күн бұрын
Arthas, My Son...
@anatol1204
@anatol1204 6 күн бұрын
Pricies are going up AI is caching up.. Ask Beiden to make this a gift to you he s got a lot money
@shakespeariancopy3053
@shakespeariancopy3053 13 күн бұрын
So if I want a sunburst now I must get a chambered bodied strat? 🤮🤢what about making strats the way they are supposed to be?
@javiersilva5409
@javiersilva5409 13 күн бұрын
I played one. Terrible. Lifeless, and they did the rolled edges half assed, it doesn't feel good at all.
@pepmasters-999
@pepmasters-999 7 күн бұрын
Well that rules that one out then.
@NoName-gz2kk
@NoName-gz2kk 19 күн бұрын
No ashtray bridge? No barrel saddles? Fender, why bother? No thanks.
@karemare6426
@karemare6426 19 күн бұрын
Lol fender been making the SAME boring guitars for 70 years, and it's still the "new fender models" each goddamn year :D
@javiersilva5409
@javiersilva5409 13 күн бұрын
I owned two CS, and I'm spoiled, yeah, but I also own 2 roadworns and they're way better than these guitars.
@tbone2451
@tbone2451 20 күн бұрын
Not a fan of the aged knobs and pickups. Fake looking.
@mikeschultz8156
@mikeschultz8156 21 күн бұрын
Don’t you think went you buy a Strat or a Tele it should be their flagship guitar ? You should not have buy a player series or a 54 or a custom shop to get their best … Fender didn’t do that in the beginning… so what I get out of it is Fender can’t build a guitar that is as good as a fifties or sixties because they won’t they want all to upgrade to get the quality that was the Fender name … Gibson does it also … shameful
@zezuntxiduntxi
@zezuntxiduntxi 21 күн бұрын
I actually agree with you
@timetraveler_0
@timetraveler_0 21 күн бұрын
Sometimes people can get nuisanced about minor features, why should fender not capitalize on that? The Player II series is likely better than any guitar you could buy back in the day for the same if not less amount of money (adjusted for inflation). No one is forcing anyone to buy an Ultra Lux.
@keithferris9574
@keithferris9574 21 күн бұрын
​@@timetraveler_0sure but it makes everything high level have to be aspirational. Is there a law that the average earner should never be able to afford high end stuff?
@tdc_2021
@tdc_2021 21 күн бұрын
It’s an amazing time to be a guitar player. If you can’t afford a Fender, you can get a very decent Squire. If you are very well off then you can get something custom shop. Then there are loads of options in between. But ultimately, all of the options are very good and most will be as good as what was made in the 50s.
@damham5689
@damham5689 21 күн бұрын
Just buy a G&L, the real leo fender guitar and never worry about it.
@VictorVectorMusic
@VictorVectorMusic 20 күн бұрын
You can buy a player series assembled in Mexico or a US Model assembled by a Mexican in the USA. lol Oh and rolled FBs have nothing to do with fret sprouts FWIW :)
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